california last night saying we did build it. as i have promised, we will play the president's full original comments in context every day this continues to be a line of attack. let's take a listen. >> if you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. there was a great teacher somewhere in your life. somebody helped to create this unbelievable american system that we have that allowed you to thrive. somebody invested in roads and bridges. if you've got a business, you didn't build that. somebody else made that happen. >> the president's campaign is unsurprisingly pushing back against the ads with two new web videos debunking the claim and the president addressed it last night in california. >> earlier today, governor romney was at it again. knowingly twisting my words around to suggest that i don't value small businesses. when folks just like omit entire sentences of what you said, they

start kind of splicing and dicing, you may have gone a little over the edge there. >> i am flanked by genius political minds today. it's hard to choose. mr. heilemann, when we talk about the romney campaign and whether or not this is a good line of attack, how long can they sustain this? >> oh, they can probably sustain it for a pretty long time. i don't disagree that the remarks are out of context but they are keying in on a narrative that exists in the world which is that the president doesn't -- is anti-business, doesn't understand the economy, and it is a fact if you go around and talk to small business owners, medium size business owners and large business owners, they do believe that. now, they may be wrong but that is a widespread view among people in the private sector. the president is either hostile to business or clueless about business. the white house knows that narrative and perception is out there and is sensitive to this. that's why they're fighting back against it.

even though they're right on the merits, the context issue, they recognize they have a political vulnerability on this issue. >> mark, the president has a new ad out which we will get to in a second but how much does this sort of small ball stuff hurt him in the long run with voters who want to see him talking about the big picture? >> anything that goes to the economy and whether he's the right person to lead the country for the next four years is not small bore, it's big. they are defensive about it and they understand they have to fight back. you know, the left spent a lot of time taking stuff mitt romney said out of context and now people on the left are complaining that the right is taking this out of context. it's what happens -- >> but do you think -- >> -- when you accept the premise you can take something out of context which they did with what governor romney said. i was against that. i'm against this. >> do you think this is along the lines of corporation? you have talked a lot about sort of how the media plays a role in sort of overselling sound bites. do you think that this current

romney line of attack about building businesses is similar to what was said about governor romney on the corporations are people too? >> it's similar in the sense the reason they have traction on it, the reason they can put out web videos and talk about it is because they have that underlying misleading sound bite. this is a problem for the president. it may be an unfair accusation about whether he understands how the private sector works but it is a widely held view and it's a view that if he loses i think will play as big a role in his losing as anything, except for the related fact of the bad economy for four years. but if it's about the future, people may say you know what, this guy had four years to deal with the economy and we don't trust his instincts in the next four. that is the biggest vulnerability he has going forward. again, besides the underlying economy. >> lynn, you're nodding your head in agreement there. >> i am. it shows how hard it is even for somebody as experienced as obama to create a sentence or a phrase or a paragraph that is

parse-proof. you have campaigns looking at everything someone says, where inflection can become a campaign ad. obama i suppose in a sense should have known better. you don't put the subject anywhere apart from a predicate. you've got to say it better and this is an example of where he's paying the price. the corporations are people, too. this is a case study of how you don't say it. >> keep the predicate near the subject. >> i want to talk, hugo, we're back in we said politics was back in the mud pit and we're hearing more from david axelrod yesterday tweeting about mitt romney's olympics record. we know a lot of documents surrounding his stewardship of the 2002 games have been destroyed through no involvement of the romney campaign but when we talk about mitt romney's bona fides for becoming president, the hard drives from his staff who worked on his gubernatorial,

part of his governorship, those hard drives have been wiped. the records around the olympics are nowhere to be found and we know where the tax returns are. >> we know where they are? >> i actually don't know. they may be in the recycling bin. >> it shows one thing, which is that in the business world, people don't like to reveal all their secrets and there's tons of reporting about public companies but it's all a kind of song and dance to try to conceal the truth or at least put a different spin on it. i think that's the world romney is most used to operating in and it's still true to him. i think, you know, john's column in "new york" magazine this week about why are they stumbling on this, tax returns in particular, it's such an obvious thing. they had to see it coming. why are they not prepared with this story? what are they doing? i think it's because there's a mindset. there's a mindset that is a product of 20 years in business and it's hard to just change that, even when you have to. >> let's listen to what mitt romney said regarding the wall of obfuscation.

>> what has come from the president's campaign has been a series of attacks on me for my private sector work, for which i'm very proud, most recently the olympics which i'm also very proud of and of course my leadership in massachusetts. i think i was able to by virtue of having a great team, able to achieve wonderful things there as well. >> john -- >> he's proud of all those things. funny that he doesn't talk about them more. >> that's the thing. >> the things i'm proud of, i talk about a lot. >> we know that. we know that, actually. but it is weird, he outlines three things that he has not really gotten into. of course, my leadership in massachusetts and i think i was able to dot, dot, dot, by virtue of having a great team, able to achieve some wonderful things there as well. no actual unpacking -- >> did well on the assault weapons ban there. >> it's interesting, we talked about this last week, there's a defense and an offense element. you're running a campaign, you will be -- your resume will be

central to it. you know there are things that you will get attacked for. you have to be ready to defend. they have not been ready to defend. i'm almost as interested in the lack of offense. if you're going to run on your resume you got to be able to get out and say here's why my experience at bain is going to help america. here's why my experience at the olympics is going to help america. what i learned in those things that will translate into public policy from the office of the presidency. he hasn't made those arguments. we talked to larry kudlow about it this morning and he said yeah, conservatives want to hear that. they -- he must make that argument. because in the end, the people who are undecided right now will want to hear about the future and you got to marry up the past to the future in order to make a compelling argument. >> it's not just sort of in support of the romney presidency that you need to make that argument. it's also to assuage people who might be concerned, even in conservative circles, that there is something sort of untoward in those tax returns. mark mckinnon being -- a quote in the piece that was written for politico this morning saying i can't think of a political

parallel, said former george w. bush advisor, we know as much about romney as we did clint eastwood in "the man with no name." you know, how much -- we know this is obviously a line of attack from democrats, but republicans have got to sort of be scratching their heads, too, thinking well, what is in there. >> i'm going to be contrarian about this. >> i can't imagine. >> i think it's possible, i'm not advocating it or saying it will definitely work but it's possible governor romney can hold off on all this stuff until the fall. i'm not talking about the tax returns. i'm talking about talking more about his record and background. i think their theory of beating the president is run against him, make it a referendum on the economy, and he'll need to reassure people at the convention, at the debates. think about what people said about bush 41 at this stage, where he was well behind in the polls and people thought he's ill defined, what people know about him, they don't like. he seems weak. he gave a great convention

speech, did well in the debates and that was enough. he wasn't trying to beat an incumbent but he was running from a position of greater weakness than governor romney. so july, august, up through the selection of the running mate, i'm not sure he needs -- >> do you anticipate that that's what will happen, that in september, suddenly these sort of conservative ideas about how to sort of revive the economy and how to manage growth are suddenly going to be kind of everywhere? >> not enough for us or for brookings scholars, but maybe enough for voters. >> here's why the timing is there. the romney team is marching to their own timetable. they don't care what the chatter is on shows. if he came out, here's the point, you're right, you want to know so i'm a great businessman, so would there be a new sba program, would you do tax credits more than just extending it, would you have whatever. okay, if he puts it out now, all it's going to be is attacked by the obama team. it will be picked to death. put it out later, when people

start paying attention, when those undecideds, they will know more what they want to hear because there's data collection every day, that's when you put it out. >> so don't give it to the telmudic scholars yet. i didn't realize they were retaining -- >> huge teams on both sides. >> coming up, more on the president's new ad about choices and a discussion on governor romney's charitable giving.

governor romney's plan would cut taxes for the folks at the very top, roll back regulations on big banks and he says that if

we do, our economy will grow and everyone will benefit. but you know what? we tried that top-down approach. it's what caused the mess in the first place. i believe the only way to create an economy built to last is to strengthen the middle class. asking the wealthy to pay a little more so we can pay down our debt in a balanced way. so that we can afford to invest in education, manufacturing and home-grown american energy. for good middle class jobs. sometimes politics can seem very small but the choice you face, it couldn't be bigger. >> that is a new obama campaign ad that will be airing in nine swing states. mark halperin, i believe this ad garnered, i would call it praise on the mark halperin website, which is to say you said it is really worth watching. and that it is, i don't know that you didn't say this, but i think a lot of us think of it as a line in the sand in terms of messaging from team obama. it's a big ad insofar as it

talks about the stakes, the choices at hand, and fundamentally puts forward the president's vision and contrast that with mitt romney. do you think it's a successful ad? >> it's a big investment. if they're really airing it in part of the regular rotation it's a 60-second spot which costs a lot of money to run in those states. i think it is a real ad. i don't think they're just putting it out to get publicity. it's not just the campaign's sense of the race. it is the president. that is his personal belief of why he should win, is the contrast on the policies. some interesting choices. first putting himself direct to camera. governor romney hasn't done that yet. it would be interesting to see if and when romney does do that. that's part of trying to leverage people liking the president and trusting him. it's also he makes a reference, he doesn't say it was bush's fault, president bush's fault, but he does say we can't go back to the policies that got us in trouble in the first place. that is a somewhat controversial line, because a lot of independents are turned off by that. they don't want to hear it's someone else's fault but that is, again, the president's strong belief. and it is also, there's a range

of things in there. energy, education, a range of issues that the president feels really strongly about and if the election could be fought on the terms he laid out in that ad he's confident he can win. >> lynn sweet, it is also, you know, we have the surrogates sort of playing down and dirty on the bain stuff. the president is hovering slightly above them with a bigger message. your thoughts on the ad? >> well, the president does in this moment we're in, he's doing the positive. other people do the negative. though when he says you're twisting my words, as he did in oakland last night, that is pretty strong language from the president. i mean, i think that counts as a direct hit if we're scoring it. there's no other way to do it. an ad like that needs to exist because the campaign this early on both sides is getting very much into negative territory. you don't want to turn off somebody who is a persuadable. you might not get them back. >> it's a seminal ad, i think.

mark made this point on the page. it's a comparative ad that is a comparative ad. normally we mean it's a negative ad. here the president is saying compare and contrast, here we are. there are a few things. one is that i think it's clear it's partly in response to the fact the president's personal approval ratings have gone down a little because he's been perceived as getting down in the mud too much but the two other things in there that are really deep in their research, when he talks about, you will hear this a lot over the next few months, when he talks about an economy built to last, that's a contrast to an economy built on sand. that's an economy to boom-bust. boom-bust in the minds of a lot of voters is what we've had for the last ten years. what mitt romney will take us back to. the other thing is the end, raising the stakes on the election, saying this is a big election and that's about raising the cost of switching. it's like saying, you know, you might not be totally comfortable with me, but take a look, forcing voters to look at the alternative and saying this is such a big election, you got to study the other guy. you can't let this just be about me. it's also got to be about him.

in all these very subtle ways they're trying to make it's all about framing this, it's a choice. >> but i think it is, one of the things i think is effective about the ad is obama is saying it is about him. the real strength of the ad is what mark is referring to, it's what the president believes. and what's the biggest i think mitt romney's biggest, you know, problem is that no one really knows what he believes except he believes that everybody should have the right to get rich. like the truth is -- >> which actually president obama believes, too. he does. he's not against -- >> don't we all -- >> i'm for the right to get rich, too. >> also pay lower taxes. >> the truth is that you're trying to imagine the mitt romney ad where he's sitting in the same kind of thing, laying out his, like what he believes in, in the same tone, in the same kind of both critical and positive about like what's wrong with where we've been, what can i do to put the country on the right track. i think it's very well done.

it's hard to imagine the mitt romney corollary. >> there is also a bit of jiu-jitsu in the ad. romney is saying i'll get rid of obama care, get rid of regulation, have the keystone pipeline. this is the president saying here's all the things romney believes in, some associated with the ryan budget, some associated with bush policies that aren't popular. now the president is saying he's going to run against my record. i'm going to run against what his record would be if you elected him. that gives them exactly what they want as the title of the ad says, a choice rather than a referendum. >> i think your point about it being the president straight to camera is a very powerful ad optically. it seems very straightforward both literally and in terms of the theology that is laid out there. after the break, we will talk more about mitt romney and the mormon church and the obama campaign and the horse race. and the spending rate for each campaign. so many things in such a short amount of time. stay with us.

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this is your moment. let nothing stand in your way. devry university, proud to support the education of our u.s. olympic team. the overarching game changer, not to be confused with the authors of "game change" in this election could be the economy and the bureau of labor statistics reports the jobless rate rose in six of ten swing states last month. while this may be a concerning headline for the obama campaign, all of those states except michigan have rates lower than the national average. lynn, we already know, we say this all the time, this race is going to be fought in a handful of states among a handful of voters. the fact that the unemployment rate went up, it was a marginal sort of .1%. not great news for the obama campaign but the fact these states remain lower than the national average, in some states as low as 5% and 6% is good news for the obama campaign.

>> absolutely. since the election comes in november, just a few days after an october jobless report, and that's just kind of the luck of the draw that the obama team has, what if the summer, the next report comes out good for august and then october, there's something that -- there's two numbers to look at, the rate itself and how many jobs are created. and if it's what people expected, whatever that number is. and each state becomes its own story, then, and i think you will also see the campaigns adjust. as each week goes by, you see the story break down -- it's not a national race right now anyway. i live in washington and i see all the ads for virginia. i wouldn't see them if i'm living here, new york or chicago, and you do get a sense the ad that is the most seen, that i see in washington tv, isn't one that we talk about much, by the way, and it kind of goes to your theme of what will make the swing state voters

decide. it's republican national committee ad that says to people we understand you voted for him in '08 and you liked him. it's okay to change. what a powerful, is it even subliminal message about what's going on? you never really hear about that ad. heavy, heavy play in virginia. >> focus group tested ad -- >> two frames of a domino's pizza send a different subliminal message. >> i want to call everybody's attention to mort zuckerman saying job seekers are one third as likely to find a job at before president obama was elected. can the president persuade voters to let him keep his job when so many of them have lost theirs. that is of course the fundamental question, right, mark? >> i would like to comment on him commenting.

it is the key question and it is the enduring qstion regardless of what happens in july and in the beginning of august. i don't think the numbers -- i don't think the white house expects the numbers to get better enough to win based on making the argument that the president's turned the economy around. the ad, we talked about before, doesn't really talk much about the future except in the negative sense of we can't let the romneys' ideas be the future. it's more of the same. and the romney campaign is confident that if the president just runs on more of the same and just runs on the economy, he'll lose. the president's confident he'll win. right now, you know, one thing you talk to people in campaigns all the time, is would you rather have your hand or the other side. both campaigns continue to say they would rather have the hand they have, even -- >> don't tell journalists which hand you really want to have. don't they have to put out the message they like their hand? >> i covered presidential campaigns where they say we're the underdog. >> the one area where the obama campaign is trumpeting its status as underdog is in the

fund-raising race where it is a constant, a barrage of e-mails regarding we can't even afford the coffee or whatever. they don't actually say that. >> has the virtue of being true. also -- >> is it really a problem for the president to raise money in this election cycle? >> he's going to raise more money than any money has been raised before. >> relative to mitt romney. >> if the race is going to be as close as it's going to be, we all talk about how it's a few states, it's untested. there will be so much money spent in swing states, there's no precedent where you can look back and say well, this is how much it's going to move the needle. will there be a backlash, will it be wasted money. all i know is i have never met a person who ran a presidential campaign who wanted to be outspent and felt comfortable being outspent. what the obama campaign knows is they have had a financial advantage this summer and they will not have one in the fall. that makes them really nervous. i think they have every right to be nervous. we don't know how it will work out. >> it's 1 1/2 to 1, it matters. less than that, i'm not sure it does. >> the june spending, romney

spent $21.5 million. it seems like romney is going to try and draw obama out to be competitive in states where he thought he -- >> also, we act as if the romney campaign is frozen. it's not. romney only has some 200 people on his payroll. obama which is fully staffed up, because he did not have a big primary to go through, has 700. you can't run a national campaign with just 200 people so the romney expense side is going to grow, even though this month, his numbers look good. it is a snapshot but one that won't exist very long. it's like the pizza business. it takes dough to make dough. you got to have people and ads and campaigns going and offices to do it. and both campaigns aren't just leaving it up to one device, ads or field and romney needs to spend money on that.

>> i didn't realize the organizing principle of this segment was going to be pizza. >> lot of pizza here today. >> let's order in. >> we might. you never really know what's going to happen on this show. coming up, mr. romney goes to london, israel and poland. we preview the latest tour coming up next.

governor mitt romney is digging out his passport, changing some currency and perhaps dusting off an old beret before heading to the olympics in london, where his wife's horse rafalka will compete in the sport of dressage. the london stop is part of an international tour that will take him to poland and on to israel. how do you say rafalka in polish? meanwhile, romney is launching a foreign policy offensive on the president before he leaves for the uk today.

his prepared remarks say in part i am an unapologetic believer in the greatness of this country. i am not ashamed of american power. i do not view america as just one more point on the strategic map, one more power to be balanced. joining us now from washington is the editor in chief of "foreign policy" magazine, susan glasser. always great to see you. >> thanks. good to see you, too. >> susan, foreign policy, mitt romney's had a difficult dance on foreign policy thus far. we know that he misinterpreted yesterday a comment made in a conversation with the australian foreign minister, bob carr. he called russia our number one geopolitical enemy and his comments about his aggressive stance on china i think among some circles, even among conservative circles and specifically henry kissinger have worried some of those folks who understand the delicate nature of our relationship with china. where would you put him on the foreign policy sort of learning curve at this point? >> well, i have to tell you, it makes it a little bit surprising

that they're choosing to jump into foreign policy in the middle of the campaign right now. it's not seen as a strong point, certainly the polls don't suggest it's a voting issue. it's number 14 on the list of things voters are concerned about this year. and also, i think it may tend to underscore romney's sort of inconsistent and not fully formed views as a candidate. hopefully he won't wear the beret you're talking about in the introduction. >> hopefully he will. hopefully he will. that's how you make friends over there. >> we'll see, alex. that would be an interesting decision indeed. but it's funny to hear barack obama yesterday giving his own foreign policy speech criticizing romney as the inexperienced challenger. how quickly four years changes things, right. >> but you know, it's worth pointing out, i want to play sound from robert gibbs, who made a point yesterday on a conference call with reporters about how much more quote, unquote, transparent the president was, how much more available he was to the press when he did his first sort of international tour overseas. let's listen to what he said.

>> the question i think for governor romney is whether this trip will be similarly substantive and live up to the bar that was set in 2008 or whether this is one long photo op and fund-raising tour. i mean, it's one thing to do generalities and platitudes on a campaign trail, but to go to these countries where these issues are crucially important and obviously are very important, enormously important back home, and not give details. >> susan, you seem to think, though, correct me if i'm wrong, that he can probably skate by on platitudes right now given the level of interest there is in terms of foreign policy specifics here at home. >> yes, but at the same time, there are risks and they are very real risks for mitt romney taking the trip. remember, obama was greeted by a cheering crowd of 200,000 people when he made his famous speech in germany four years ago. i don't think that mitt romney is going to be looking at crowds

like that. that's a point of contrast certainly. i think obama has come out pretty hard attacking him, saying where's your plan for afghanistan, we read an item the other day on our website pointing out even republican senators aren't sure where mitt romney falls down on this major war that the u.s. is very much involved in. i think he has potential weaknesses and therefore risks of going overseas. remember, he's also going to make specifics points. he's going to israel because he wants to shore up i think his status with key voters in key swing states. he's not necessarily looking to make an overall appeal with that stop as much as he is to make a particular point where he thinks obama is weak. >> mark, you know, there are pros and cons as far as this trip. one is, mitt romney has been thus far anemic on foreign policy. it takes him off message in terms of focus on the economy and domestic concerns. the plus is that he gets to do this outreach to israel, he will

contrast the president's position vis a vis russia with his when he's in poland. do you think he wins points? do the negatives outweigh the positives? >> it's probably, unless some big mistakes happen, a net plus. it's mostly going to be an invisible trip. i'm not sure the romney campaign gamed this out. think about president obama's trip when he went, the drama, the scale of the photo ops. all three broadcast network anchors flew over and did interviews with him. this is going to be competing with the olympics. it's only three stops. hard to see how he will get much coverage in london. they have not laid out exactly what the events of the trip are going to be but i would be surprised if by any metric, that this breaks through in any meaningful way. >> keep in mind -- >> unless, unless mitt romney makes a three-pointer on the first try. >> hugo -- >> i would like to see him, what kind of game he's got. >> does rafalka winning a gold

medal in dressage help or hurt mitt romney? >> i will go with hurt. john? >> if i may -- >> well, no, that's why he's going to london. the initial reports we heard were mitt romney wants to go to london and wants to be there for his wife and his horse, and we are going to build a trip around it. i don't know how accurate that is, but it would sort of explain some of the timing around this. >> that does help explain the timing and i'll say hurt, if there's a lot of focus on dressage, a sport many americans are not familiar with. i think from what i've heard in talking to a romney source, they don't necessarily want a lot of attention. this is a box to check that you've done this and susan, when you brought up the trip that obama went on, which i was there, they are happy if you start playing on tv that picture of 200,000 people in the garden in berlin because they think that's a good contrast that they

want to make, that romney's going to get something done. i'm pretty sure he'll get his photo op in front of ten downing street as obama did, as a courtesy. >> he's meeting with david cameron. >> right. and i think they're not looking for anything more than if you want to contrast this with obama's trip with the visuals from that, we all remember john mccain beat him up afterwards. >> sure. he was the candidate of european socialists. susan, i want to bring you in here. in terms of the other thing the romney trip does is highlight the president's foreign policy successes when he goes to the middle east, and you know, the romney spokesperson andrea saul says president obama thinks visiting israel is a distraction, it is clear that his foreign policy is confused, ineffective and is weakened in every corner of the world. what do you make of that? >> again, certainly there's no polling information whatsoever to suggest that this is a

weakness for president obama. quite the contrary. many democrats believe this is a sort of once in a generation chance to run as a strong national security candidate, something that's been very unusual historically even in the post-cold war. i think the obama team probably rightfully views their record on national security and foreign policy as an asset. i think that romney has made a pretty confused presentation so far. it's not really clear what his foreign policy is except as he said the other day about israel, he said what's my policy on israel going to be? exactly what barack obama's was and the opposite. so he's really running as a critic of obama's rather than laying out his own plan which of course was something that obama pointed out yesterday. >> susan glasser of "foreign policy" magazine, i don't like being on the other side of the aisle on team romney and berets versus team romney and not in berets but we see eye-to-eye on so many other things. thank you for your time. coming up, new york state celebrates a year of marriage equality but have attitudes about same sex marriage changed

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if you experience a sudden decrease or loss in vision or hearing. this is the age of taking action. viagra. talk to your doctor. one year ago today, same sex couples began to legally marry in new york state. to date, more than 7,000 couples have tied the knot in new york city alone. one of those newlyweds is christine quinn. she married her long-time partner in may. speaker quinn joins us now on set. it's a pleasure to have you on the show. welcome and congratulations. >> thank you very much. it was a perfect day. >> 7,000 marriages in the last year. >> at least. you don't have to put your gender down so those are the folks who identified. >> incredible, incredible. the other story is the economic impact in the city. an estimated $259 million

economic impact resulting in $16 million in city revenues. >> pretty good. >> impressive. this was really interesting. same sex marriage average cost is $9,039 here in new york city. we don't know what heterosexual marriage is. >> the average is about $30,000. for whatever reason, i was speaking to the gentleman who runs new york city and company, our tourism bureau, he said the lgbt ones have been a little smaller. >> interesting. i want to ask you about sort of changing attitudes towards same sex marriage. i bring to your attention something you said not long ago. you said i go to places where you think based on the sign over the door this place is conservative, they're not going to want to see the ring, ask how it was, congratulate me. couldn't be more wrong. >> amazing. it's been so amazing. since the moment marriage equality passed and i said we were engaged, people everywhere i go, every borough, every neighborhood, congratulations, congratulations. i would sometimes say to people with me why are they

congratulating me. it would be knucklehead, you're engaged. it wasn't present in my mind. it was still present in theirs. everywhere i go, it's been the most lovely thing. even religious leaders, if you were to make an assumption they might not have been excited, will go out of their way to pull me aside and say congratulations, i'm happy for you. and you know, in the wake of so much terrible tragedy recently in our country, there's very few things we in government can do that are just about happiness. just about bringing people joy. this is one of them. and i have seen this city really, and the state, be lifted up by this law over the past 12 months. so i would say to people in other parts of the country who think the sky is going to fall in if you bring equal rights to lgbt people, it is quite the opposite. >> i ask you that because we of course know just a few months ago, north carolina banned same sex marriages and it almost seems like not one step forward, two steps back by any means, but one step forward, perhaps one

step back. the country, you know, we talk about these divided states, in some corners of the country, there seems to be a lot of unity, a lot of acknowledgment that this is not -- this isn't a gay rights issue. this is a civil rights issue. but in other parts of the country, there seems to be a much different, more different attitude as far as gay unions and gay rights and gay marriage. i guess i wonder as a gay american, how does that make you feel seeing the discrepancy between the attitudes here in new york city and elsewhere in the country? >> it makes -- look, i'm very proud of my state. very proud of my mayor, very proud of my governor, for what we have in new york. but i'm not satisfied. and i know we have more work to do to make me a full citizen in the eyes of the federal government and to give every american the same rights i have in my state, in their state. but what i end up feeling after 12 months of new yorkers being so great is energized. stronger. ready to fight harder to support my brothers and sisters in other

states and to make my country equal. really, i feel like we have the wind at our back. and you know what, the quest for full rights is never easy. if it was easy, you know, it would have happened already but it's important and you need to keep going. every setback just like when we lost in new york in 2009, you need to understand them, you need to learn from them and you need to recommit. that's what we did here. that's what we'll do in north carolina. that's what we're doing in california. we will keep the march moving forward. and we'll get it done. i have no doubt in my mind. >> we know there are marriage equality measures on ballots in maine, maryland, minnesota and washington. are you bullish or bearish? >> i think, look, that's a lot of states, so do i think we're going to win all of them? i hope we do but that's a tough, tough field with all of those states. but i am very optimistic that we will be victorious. we have actually never been victorious before on a state ballot so i think we will do much better than our opponents

think we'll do. you know, the thing about the opponents, lgbt equality and marriage equality, they think they're going to stop us. they think we're going to lose and eventually going to say you know what, i'm done. that's not happening. >> in fact, it's i think the opposite. the arc of history as the president always talks about bends towards justice and equality. this is something where generationally you are seeing a major shift in terms of attitudes towards gay marriage. i do have to ask you, because you are here with us, we know you have been fund-raising for something that you have not declared which is to say potential mayoral bid. your thoughts on that, the fund-raising, you reached the limit for how much one can raise. there seems to be a lot of enthusiasm around that. >> i'm very grateful to everyone who has supported my campaign from small contributions all the way up and i'm also very proud that in new york city we have a campaign finance system that has a maximum contribution level. >> there's a limit. >> it's amazing. most places don't have that.

so i'm proud we have it. i'm proud to be in or system and i'm really grateful to the new yorkers who well over a year before the next round of city-wide elections are interested and care enough about their city to say hey, i want to talk to you about who are going to be the next city-wide elected officials, i want to have a conversation, want to give you $25, want to give you $50. that to me makes me really optimistic about the future of new york city because people care. >> new yorkers are nothing if not interested. >> that's right. and vocal. >> new york city council speaker christine quinn, thank you for joining us. >> thank you. coming up, the latest installment from the cold case posse. sheriff joe arpaio takes the stand at his racial profiling trial while the lead investigator pockets illicit cash. it's business as usual. that's next. jor hospital wanted to provide better employee benefits while balancing the company's bottom line, their very first word was... [ to the tune of "lullaby and good night" ] ♪ af-lac ♪ aflac [ male announcer ] find out more at... [ duck ] aflac! [ male announcer ] ...forbusiness.com.

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welcome back. time for "what now." cold case posse lead investigator mike zulo admits

that he violated the maricopa county sheriff's office code of conduct for accepti $1400 for the sale of the ebook version of his investigation into president obama's birth certificate. meanwhile, arizona sheriff joe arpaio is taking the stand today over allegations of racial profiling and targeting latinos. hugo, does it surprise anybody on earth that the cold case posse may not be the crackerjack investigative team that sheriff joe thought they might be? >> i'm not surprised. these are fun, crazy people out there having a fun, crazy time. >> okay. lynn sweet, we know the president has been defending his nationality since he began running for office. mike zulo apparently flew to hawaii along with this crackerjack team of cold case posse affiliates and they are not satisfied with what they found. sheriff joe arpaio repeatedly demanded to see the microfilm. when will this stop being an issue? >> hasn't it stopped? >> no, sir.

>> i don't see an end. there's a certain mindset that to me, the standard has always been the contemporaneously reported birth announcement in the honolulu papers. okay. when i actually have said this to a person i thought was rational, i said how do we know that somebody didn't go to every library in hawaii and change the microfiche. >> the sheriff did a good job of helping this issue jump the shark. it is in the realm of the absurd, is it not? >> been there for a long time. conspiracy theories have long lives in america. think about the zapruder film. obviously that involved the assassination of a president but 30 years later, oliver stone made a movie about that for people who are fevered in their minds and paranoid and lunatics, this won't stop this year or next year. it will go on -- barack obama will leave office and people will still be saying this was true 20 years from now. >> we will see mike zulo's name generations from now.

that is a depressing thought. >> you might. >> mark halperin, we didn't get any pizzas sent to us. >> not yet. >> there's time. >> we're waiting. >> we have to go. that's the end of our show. thank you again to mark, lynn, john and hugo. that is all for now. we will see you back here on friday at noon. i'm not going to be here again until august 13th. so keep those pizzas coming. we'll be back at 9:00 a.m. eastern -- no. 12:00 p.m. eastern, 9:00 a.m. pacific. luke russert will be joined by ben smith, heather mcgee and jonathan capehart. until then, find us on facebook.com/nowwithalex. "andrea mitchell reports" is next. good afternoon to you, andrea. have a great break, alex. coming up here, as mitt romney is about to leave for not quite a break but his first foreign tour as a candidate, we will have your first look at our new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll comparing the candidates' qualifications for commander in chief. we will hear from both campaigns. and more of my exclusive

interview with elton john on politics, princess diana and being a father. many locations will be dealing with thunderstorms on and off today, including minneapolis and chicago. some of the worst spots early today. this afternoon, washington, d.c., back through areas of virginia, north carolina and even chicago could deal with numerous strong thunderstorms. on the west coast, even our friends in phoenix could deal with a few strong storms. ♪ ♪ i want to go ♪ i want to win [ breathes deeply ] ♪ this is where the dream begins ♪

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