♪ if i could turn back time >> we asked you top of the show what you could be possibly doing up at this hour. john tower has the answers back in new york. >> most of our tweets are usually about why you're awake but this one is about the response by cher, cher says, the cher. >> i have a smart crush on up with chris hayes and "way too early." both are amazingly intelligent. >> wow. wow. i hardly know what to do with myself. we confirmed that's the real cher, chris hayes and i got a fight on our hands because in 1989, a boy became a man when he watched the "turn back time" video. remember that up on the aircraft carrier. cher, i don't know what to say. you've changed me. "morning joe" starts right now.

welcome to the olympics. there's mitt romney who ran the salt lake city games waving to china, home to a billion people. thousand s owe their jobs to mit romney's companies. india which gained jobs thanks to mitt romney an outsourcing pioneer and ber ma where romney had the uniforms made for the 0 2002. the swiss have a special place in mitt romney's heart or wallet. the swiss know how to keep a secret. say this about mitt romney, he sure knows how to go for the gold. for himself. >> good morning. it's wednesday, july 25th. >> is that -- was that conan or letterman? >> kimmelp. >> was it kimmel? you think it was kimmel.

>> it's a comedy spot. >> what was it? >> who did that. isn't there -- >> you have to put a credit. >> it was from the comedy stylings of priority usa action. >> that's obama's super pac? >> yeah. yeah. >> wow. mark halperin, what's going on over there. let's see that again. i seriously, i thought i was watching a late night comedy skit. roll it again. this is -- wow. >> welcome to the olympics. there's mitt romney, who ran the salt lake city games waving to china, home to a billion people, thousands owe their jobs to mitt romney's companies. india, which also gained jobs thanks to romney, an outsourcing pioneer. and burma, where romney had the uniforms made for the 2002 games. we know the swiss have a special place in mitt romney's wallet -- or heart. we kept millions in swiss banks. those swiss sure know how to

keep a secret. you got to say this about mitt romney. he sure knows how to go for the gold. for himself. >> willie geist, you're in london, i don't know what to say. >> well -- >> that's terrible. >> is that horrible. >> that was bad. >> that looks like a late night clip. >> i understand the outsourcing message, but was it a negative that he took over the 2002 salt lake city games that were a disaster and sort of rescued them and made them a source of pride for the country. i don't know that i would put a negative message against that backdrop. >> yeah. that's a good one. >> by the way, how's it going over there? >> who is that announcer. >> who is winning the outsourcing games? >> joe, it's hot. >> really? >> it was 85 degrees over here. we were ready -- i brought the rain slicker and the whole thing. >> of course. >> apparently it's going to rain on friday in time for the opening ceremonies. we have karins working on that. the ceremony is friday but

women's soccer begins today. team usa playing france in scotland. >> by the way, willie starts the show at 10:30. >> yes. >> must be nice. >> can we go back. >> yeah. >> we have msnbc and "time" magazine senior political analyst mark halperin, steve schmidt and mark mckinnon. >> usa, willie. >> thank you. >> four years ago we were making fun of the beijing olympics, going to be terrible, smog, the other stuff, by the end of the crying -- >> sam is here too. >> happens all the time. sam stein here too. >> launch into things. what else? >> sam, what did you think -- >> we have ed rendell. >> no, we don't. >> yes, we do. >> it's a vernable cornucopia. it helps to do the intros because you know who's here. >> what did you think of that ad? >> i thought it was very funny. >> i don't think that's the point. >> a good funny or bad funny. >> an irrelevant funny. i don't think anybody pays any

attention what's on priority usa's website. >> too many people on the ad team with way too much time. >> way too much money. mika, we, of course, last week reported on a cbs news/"new york times" poll that shows the race knotted up. >> yeah. >> the nbc news/"wall street journal" poll came out and actually gives the president some breathing room. >> yeah. i guess it raises the question as to whether the weeks of negative campaign is taking a toll on the candidates. let's look at the latest head-to-head matchup, which we'll start there. obama leads romney by 6 percentage points. among voters living in 12 key battleground states, the president's lead is 8 points, 49 to 41. pretty much unchanged from june. one of the biggest takeaways how both candidates are viewed. the president is viewed negatively by 43% of voters. his second worst rating since taking office. romney's negative rating is 40%,

his worse negative rating ever for this poll. >> mark halperin, the negatives up for both candidates. why? >> there's been a lot of negative intelligent ads run, lot of negative rhetoric there. the winner is probably going to have to deal with some pretty high negative because they're both relatively high. can't imagine they'll go down much. they have their conventions. and that's when i think they'll face interesting choices as we've seen in past conventions, how negative do they go, how much they try to rehabilitate the image of their guy. >> conventions of the base are going to be key. this thing will be locked up and the interesting thing for romney these numbers if still 25%, we really don't know, he still has a lot of upside potential. >> you see the negatives going higher and higher, this plays to what you've been talking about all year, all campaign year, talking about needing to find a middle way or not finding a middle way, at least rhetorically finding some middle ground where people can meet and agree on things. the president's approval -- negatives up at 43, romney at

40, those will keep going up. it's going to be like a lot of governors that get elected with such a high negative rating, that they can't govern. >> i think the obama campaign perceived that and started that choice ad the other day. >> the positive one. >> which i think is the best ad of the campaign so far. >> steve schmidt i don't see how either two, i don't mean to be negative in july, i don't see given the current climate and the billions of dollars of ads that are going to be spent over the next five months, i don't see how either one of these candidates govern when they get elected. if mitt romney gets elected an thinks he's going to be able to do whatever he wants because he won, he's -- i mean, democrats are going to kill him. >> yeah. >> it's the same thing with president obama. if he thinks re-election somehow justifies him in republican minds he still doesn't know washington. >> we haven't begun the sequestration debate. if you look at the debt default last week year it's going to look like child's play compared to the sequestration that's

going to start. drive the negative ratings, drive the wrong track, clinic on governmental dysfunction, incredible to watch. >> when asked who's running a more negative campaign, 22% said obama's campaign was worse. 12% said romney's. and 34% said both were bad. >> okay. so in this case, who would have believed, sam stein, four years ago, that the president from hope and change would almost double his republican candidate as being seen as running in a more negative campaign. again, i think that's a crisis and do you agree with mark perhaps that's the reason that you're suddenly seeing a positive campaign ads from president obama? >> yeah. i agree with mark. that was the brand, obama was someone who was post-partisan, he didn't engage in politics as usual. that's what got him to 53% in 2008. and mine it was sort of a myth in some respects because as steve can attest, they ran negative ads, pretty good at it

in 2008, but able to keep that brand and what this poll shows is that it's diminishing and you're seeing a subtle shift, maybe not so subtle, from the campaign where they want to focus more on, you know, the positive elements of his platform. they want to rebut this small business attack but talk about the president's agenda. the other thing that's at play, obama is just on the air more than mitt romney because of the restrictions in spending money prior to conventions. more people are seeing more negative ads from him. that's going to change after the convention, but again, the convention speeches will set the tone as well. >> you know, ed rendell, we always hear time and time again, negative ads work. and you certainly have seen mitt romney's numbers, negatives go up. but there is a law of diminishing returns. i always bring up, only because it's my own state, not picking had on them, why do you always bring this story up, because it's my home state. rick scott, governor of florida, he won but he won by running a lot of negative campaigns.

he started with a 33, 34% approval rating and it's been hard for him to get that approval rating up. we're seeing that across the country more and more and it looks like we're now starting to see it in washington with the president. everybody thinks all these campaign operatives think, if we just run negative campaigns they're bad, but they work. well, there's always a cost on the other side of that. there is always a cost. i'm afraid here we're going to have the cost is going to be born out by the american people who are going to have a president that is elected, be romney or obama, that is not going to be able to govern because of all the crap we're going to see for the next four to five months. >> yeah. i think, joe, that's a real problem, although i think the whipper has a chance if the winner a week after getting elected calls a press conference and says, the country's facing dangerous times, we've got to get together, we've got to do some version of simpson-bowles, i'm going to work with everybody to make that a reality in the

next two months, i think you have the chance to change the dynamic. >> come on. ed, ed, i cannot believe a tough philadelphia guy that could go out and somehow magically scrape up the number of votes that democrats need in philadelphia for statewide elections would have such a sunny disposition when you know that if romney wins democrats will be looking at every one of these negative attacks and taking them to heart and pay romney back for four years and the same goes with president obama. >> and joe, you're probably right. but i would -- if i was the winner, i would still try it. i would try to come out of the chutes within a week and say, okay, it's over, all the hate, all of the tough stuff is over, now we've got to govern and here's the road map and if we have any guts and any courage we're going to follow this road map. >> how is it different from the next four years from the last four years from president obama. he was giving a sweeping mandate. >> when i got re-elected i turned to my advisors and said

it's going to be easier now because they have no reason to tear me down, right? my advisors said welcome to harrisburg. >> the second term -- the second term, mark you know it, is always tougher and the obama people, and we know them well and talked to them and we like them, they somehow think the second election validates them. no, it does not. ask bill clinton if the second election validated him. ask ronald reagan, ask richard nixon. i mean, ask them all. >> and to your point, joe, there is going to be $2 billion more spent this cycle from super pacs and 100% of those ads will be negative, all negative. >> they will be $2 billion in addition to what the campaigns are doing. you're right, the environment and the mood is going to be so incredibly poisonous by the time somebody gets elected it's going to be difficult for either to govern. >> there's a price to be paid even before the election.

and the price for president obama is, some of his supporters are diminishing in enthusiasm. if you look at the poll, the poll is basically good news for the president, except look at high interest voters and those are voters who say, it's nine or ten out of ten likely they're going to vote. romney is ahead with high interest voters. that's a red flag for the president. >> so, a sign that the negative campaign attacks may be taking a greater toll on mitt romney than the president, the personal likability gap is at 20%. 67% say they personally like president obama versus 47% saying they like mitt romney. the economy, though, continues to be the biggest trouble spot for the president. the majority, 53%, disapprove of how the president is handling the economy and when asked who has better ideas for improving the economy, romney leads 43 to 36. >> steve schmidt, the question is, do you hire an accountant you don't like? >> we're talking about, as you move into the conventions now, a and then you move into the

debates, audiences of 40, 50 million people, maybe more, who are watching this stuff. it's extremely important. we have 105 days left, really have like about 12 critical hours left in the campaign and if you're mitt romney, you're going to have to have a good convention speech, finally have to explain to the american people why you want to be president. >> close that likability gap. i mean there has to be something about his story he's willing to share and put on the table that personalizes himself. >> he seems to be lying in the weeds here. we know the romneys and even though we're tough on mitt romney and how he runs his campaign, we know the romneys. we like them. >> so nice. >> great people. >> those boys, man, they're great people. >> that's why there's upside potential. >> and romney is just a wonderful person and again, you see that family and go, romney, he's a winner. you know what, you know what, what's the old saying, you're wearing something that i don't know what you're wearing, but i think you're interesting. >> i'm scared.

>> i think you're from texas or something, but there was something -- an old saying that the frog didn't get up on the post by accident. >> the turtle. >> the turtle. >> you know it didn't get there by itself. >> if you see five boys that are great, decent men and see a wife and you see a family and you see grandkids, and you go, wow this is a remarkable family, it didn't happen by itself. >> think about all the conventions where we said they wiped the slate clean. remember al gore's speech and i mean it's a huge potential. >> i don't remember al gore's speech. i remember the -- >> i remember screaming in a room by myself. >> there's putting stuff on the table and then too much information. >> way too much. >> you know who this is good for, people who write books about the campaign. >> it is. >> yes, it is. yes, it is. >> but steve schmidt, i think we're going to see when we see the romney family, i mean that's the sort of thing where you roll it out at the convention, they

seem to be -- romney's team seems to be laying back. they're not spending money that obama's people are. he's not really taking -- staking bold positions. almost like they're laying back waiting for a fall blitz. >> you don't win the presidency in a default judgment. it doesn't default to you because the economy is bad. you have to explain to the american people why do you want to be president of the united states. what is the plan to turn the country around. and you're going to have tens of millions of people who will be watching his convention speech. you look at the 1988 campaign where george herbert walker bush had a lot of similarities here to some of the problems that mitt romney has. when the brilliant speeches ever given at an american political convention written by peggy noonan, humanized him, defined him, why he wanted to be president, connected him to the middle class of the country. is that going to happen for mitt romney and i think we have to see when the convention -- when the convention is. >> also revealing is how voters

view the direction of the economy and just 27% think it will get better within the next 12 months. lowest number for this poll since last november. >> sam stein, what's that mean for the president? >> it means terrible things. people are generally pessimistic about what's happening with the economy and more and more they're blaming him. it's funny because you look at this poll and say, on the economy, clearly the numbers are with romney but on the brand, on the prescriptions for the middle class, people tend to side with the president. one number we haven't talked about in this poll, buried in there, the positive/negatives for the democratic party at large and the republican party at large, for democrats it's something like 40/40, for republicans 34/43. when you look at the brand of the parties it's clear that people side with what the democrats are doing but the economy is just outweighing everything and to everyone's point, mitt romney's proven he had can run a negative campaign and win in the republican primary. remains to be seen whether he

can do a proactive positive case for his candidacy. maybe that's what they're waiting for. they want to spend the money on reintroducing him post-convention? a positive way. >> it will be interesting to see what you think we'll play it later of romney's speech on foreign policy. the president is still earning high marks on his foreign policy handling. 47 to 32 over romney. >> by the way, i -- somebody said this in the -- i think "the wall street journal" today, i read a quote somewhere, i can't remember in my lifetime because it's never happened in my lifetime, that a democrat so dominated a republican candidate, in foreign policy. >> you wouldn't have thought that when you heard mitt romney's speech before he left on his trip. >> can anybody around here, just as a matter of course, steve schmidt, can you ever remember a democrat leading a republican in foreign policy. >> no. >> mark? >> no. >> governor, ever. >> no. >> just never happened. sam stein -- >> not to my lengthy lifetime. >> you were playing t-ball three

weeks ago. we're not going to ask you. >> i've been around forever and never seen this. >> we republicans used to be concerned back in the '90s when bill clinton would draw even with us on foreign policy. i want to talk really quickly, though, about that republican number because we've got some republicans around this table. let's talk about it. the democratic brand, doing pretty well. you know, it's 40/40. the republican brand upside down, let's talk about what's happened to our party over the past couple of years. >> a lot of erosion, joe. and i think that that's where the danger is for mitt romney, is that obama runs against a republican party rather than mitt romney and ties him to the republican party. >> republican party in washington. >> exactly. >> romney has to find a way to separate himself from the brand and lead the brand rather than follow the brand. >> sorry. >> i'm sorry, mark. >> goes back to convention speech. that's where i think he's going to have to become the leader of the republican party, rather than the congressional wing which is deeply unpopular. >> steve schmidt, i can't tell you how many people across the

country come up and say, i want my taxes cut, i want regulations cut, i want washington out of my life, i want them out of education, i want them out of business, but i'll tell you what, this republican party is crazy. i mean they talk like they're to the right of ronald reagan and yet they're still running away from the republican party. the republican brand. whatever they're doing in washington, they're savaging themselves with independent and swing voters and even mainline, main street republicans. this poll shows it. >> yeah. look the outrageousness of michelle bachmann is an example of why the republican -- >> attacking the -- attacking a woman who is serving her country who is in the middle of a personal crisis. >> yeah. >> and joe, why that's particularly dumb is michigan, the numbers in michigan are surprisingly close. but michigan has the largest arab population of any state in the country. and that's a good way to get arabs to vote republican.

>> yeah. it's unbelievable. >> stunning. >> stunning. >> if the republican party had a deliberate strategy to an nag niz latino voters we couldn't conceivably be doing a better job. >> now arab voters. >> president bush over 40% of latino vote. mitt romney is in the mid 20s. and the, you know, the talk radio audience is white, it's male, you know, over 65 years old, out there in the country, and the republican party is a brand is disconnected both from the culture of the country, the modern fall on the sword for

let's say a botched income tax and going to a consumption tax. fine. or trying to have voucher system nationwide, fine. or cutting -- whatever. but it's never about ideology. >> that's where mitt romney has to demonstrate he's not hostage to that part of the republican party and sister soldier moments, for example, he should come out for an assault weapons ban. this is not a radical position. the bush administration supported it, dick cheney supported it. >> mitt romney supported it as governor. >> signed it into legislation then. he has to show leadership and when to step out and provide leadership for the party and show where we're going not where we've been.

>> afraid of himself. >> he could start by saying, god, how many voters would he win and how many independent swing female voters would have loved him to stand up last week and go you know what, don't say that about a lady, michele bachmann. that is working for this country hard day in and day out and who's gone through some personal challenges over the past couple years. who's fighting for her country while fighting at home, keep her family together. how many voters would have said, i like that romney guy. >> it was the decent thing to do. >> and john mccain did it. >> easy. easy. >> but mitt romney didn't, he didn't when glen beck called the president a racist who hated all white people, when the hate talk -- at some point he's got to become leader of our problem. >> that's the problem. that increasingly conservativism is defined by fidelity to the crazy person who says the crazy thing or agreement with the

crazy statement. absolutely nothing to do with, you know, conservative policy also they be on education or tax reform or any one of a number of different issues it's killing the party. >> i think it's wonderful. i think it's wonderful. >> of course you do, governor. >> coming up in a few minutes, wisconsin governor scott walker joins us on set. we'll talk to senior strategist for the obama campaign, david axelrod. >> would it be bad to suggest rendell is connected to the muslim brotherhood somehow? >> i think so. i think we leave it at that. >> former secretary of homeland security tom ridge and from crosby stills and nash, graham nash. >> no way. >> he will be here. >> how exciting. >> up next, the morning papers. >> tom ridge you were talking about graham nash. >> and the politico playbook. >> ridge was at woodstock too. >> bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> good morning, everyone. we have the worst weather in the country taking place once again in the northern plains. strong thunderstorms are rolling at this hour through portions of northern minnesota and northern wisconsin. looks like they're going to

avoid many of the big cities throughout. we could still see an isolated storm around milwaukee and down to chicago for your morning rush hour. i hope this is the last heat wave forecast map i have to show throughout the middle of the country for a while. i hope this is going to be the hottest day we have for a long time. 100s from dallas to kansas city, st. louis, going to be 106 today, chicago, 100. and this hopefully will be it. cold front will clear this area off tomorrow. how about new england all through the mid-atlantic after the heat and humidity yesterday, 80s with low humidity. enjoy it while it lasts. the southeast going to get hot, atlanta 97 with a heat index of about 105. so the heat today, the middle of the country through the southeast. you're watching "morning joe" on this wednesday, remember we're brewed by starbucks. [ female announcer ] e-trade technology

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♪ 28 past the hour. time to take a look at the morning papers. we'll start with "the new york times," the federal reserve is reportedly moving closer to taking action if the u.s. economy does not begin to show signs of recovery. conversations between the central bank officials are said to have taken a more intense tone in recent weeks as they wait for new information on job growth, and job gains. >> what are they going to do? >> the fed's policy -- >> rate is at 0. >> set to meet next week to review the nation's most economic data. >> what do you do? you give out like gold medallions. >> give everybody 1,000 bucks. >> i guess so. my goodness. "usa today" retailers in the united states are embracing new technologies making cashiers a thing of the past. >> yeah. >> that's great for our numbers.

>> thank you. >> stores are arming themselves with ipads and other mobile devices to eliminate checkout lines. more than 6,000 nor strom sales people are running around with these mobile devices and checking out customers and jc penney hopes to get rid of all cash registers and human beings connected to jc penney by 2014. all carbon based units are asked to leave through the back door. >> yeah. >> that's not really good. >> let's move to the denver post, badman star christian bale made a surprise visit to a center in aurora, colorado. met with several patients for wounds sustained during friday's mass shooting of "the dark night rises he thanked the medical staff. before making his way to the makeshift memorial near the theater. >> time for politico, joining us with is the executive editor,

jim vandehei. jim, good morning. >> hey, mika, how are you? >> pretty good. >> politico sat down with newt gingrich. how did that go? >> it's never dull. sit down with newt. he was really interesting on the issue you were just talking about, which is these allegations by michele bachmann and four other republican congressmen who are saying we have to have this broad investigation into ties between certain government officials and the muslim brotherhood. and newt came out forcefully in favor of bachmann, and said that boehner and mccain and others are afraid of something. what are they afraid of, to find out. he was saying this investigation needs to go forward. and off camera i kept pushing him on that and he said, with houma abedin the top aide to hillary clinton, nothing wrong with raising these questions and went into the specifics saying her parents were tied into the muslim brotherhood and that needs to be looked at. obviously if you look at the sort of the links they're trying

to draw between huma and the brotherhood he's going to keep pushing it and republicans are getting into political -- >> why? what are they trying -- are they suggesting huma is an agent of the muslim brotherhood. that's about as bad as the lighting on your face right now. what is going on there? we have a thing going. holy cow. we're not a big fancy tv company like msnbc. >> hold on a second. >> that we know. >> let's go to jim for a second. flashlight. >> jim, lean forward there, lean forward. >> okay. >> now lean back. >> yeah. >> blink like jeremiah denton. >> you guys need to work on that. >> we will we'll work on our lighting. he's pointing to the column tony blair wrote islamic terrorism is the biggest threat to the world and that people are downplaying the threat and saying listen, a big part of that threat are the

ties to the muslim brotherhood. he's in the minority. >> got you. he's suggesting hum ining huma ak-47s and going to turn on hillary. >> i don't like joking about it. it's stupid. >> what's he suggesting? the stupidest thing -- i've heard a lot of really stupid things but that is just stupid. let me go around the table to other republicans. mark mckinnon, what's going on here sh. >> this is the reason the republican party is on the way to the bottom. leadership like this out there making outrageous charges like '50s communist, ridiculous. >> it is. >> steve schmidt? >> look, michele bachmann -- >> do you side with -- >> come on now, steve. >> michele bachmann is a fool and the fact that she's on the intelligence committee, you know, is, you know, is mind boggling, but newt gingrich should actually know better. he has a sense of the history of the country and, you know, what he's doing here, it's just

despicable. shame on him. >> by the way, michele, we were impressed by michele at the end of the campaign. she started sounding more like a member of the intel committee and now this. but you know what, i was shocked by things she said before, and she raised $14 million. this is -- >> what is that? >> this is how you gem the money up, i guess. it destroys the party in the process. >> when you make the test of who's a real conservative on questions of joe wilson yelling out "you lie" you have the problems we have. >> alan west saying 78 to 81 members of the democratic party -- and still begs the question, who are the three guys on the bubble. who -- do they just wear their stalinist garb every other day. wait, no, wait, 78. no. the thing is, what's so maddening is -- >> we used to be a party of ideas. >> they'll say stupid things like that and go you're not a conservative if you don't believe that. >> you're not a republican. >> nothing to do with conservative. >> jim vandehei, thanks.

>> lunasy. >> we'll see you later. >> hey, go fix your lighting. look at that. >> turn them on next time. >> get right on it. >> in a few minutes wisconsin governor scott walker joins us. to willie in london for what's coming up next. willie? >> jim vandehei in the blair witch project with the flashlight under his face. unbelievable. bang up job over there, fellas. yeah, we got some olympic action that starts today. women's soccer looking to avenge that defeat against japan in the world cup last year. and some sports back at home, terrible news for yankee fans, a-rod takes one off the hand in seattle and the medical news is not good. we'll have that next when "morning joe" comes right back. [ cellphone rings ]

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welcome back to "morning joe." it's a beautiful day here in london. it's 11:39 in the morning, 6:39 in new york city. as you wake up, we're a couple days away from the opening ceremony so yesterday we began our crash course to give you enough information about the london games to carry a coherent conversation should the olympics come up. our continuing series and we have an animation we spent $17

on, passing cocktail party knowledge of the 2012 olympic games. today women's soccer gets started you may hear somebody say, you think the women's soccer team will avenge that world cup loss to japan? the u.s. women lost last summer's world cup final in dramatic, heartbreaking shoot-out to japan. those two teams could find themselves in a final again this time for the gold medal. team usa has won the last two olympic golds in beijing and athens and one in atlanta in '96. the american women open play today against france in glasgow, scotland. another hot topic, missy franklin, 17-year-old swimmer who will be a senior in the fall at a high school incidentally in aurora, colorado. she's 6'1" and wears size 13 shoes which comes in awful handy in the pool as you can imagine. franklin will compete in seven events, four individual, three relays. find a way to win gold in all seven she will be getting into michael phelps' territory at the

age of 17. another story line, usain bolt will he be the fastest man on the planet by the time he leaves these olympics. the 25-year-old became an international super star at the beijing olympics, ran a world record 9:69 and a record 9:30 in the 200 meter final and in 2009 broke both of those world records got huge endorsement deals, commands a reported quarter million dollar fee just to show up at a one day race nowadays. bolt will try here to become the first person to win gold in the 100 and 200 at consecutive olympics. he lost both of those events just a few weeks ago at the jamaican olympic trials to countryman and training partner johan blake. we'll see if blake on the biggest world stage can beat the biggest track and field athlete on the face of the earth. olympic coverage begins today on msnbc, about four hours from now, 10:30 eastern time, get the olympics started on msnbc.

i'll be hosting as we lead up to the first competition of the games, women's soccer immediately following our show. to some baseball back in the states, yankees in seattle taking on the mariners, ichiro now a yankee at the dish facing his old teammate felix hernandez. catches the top of ichiro's shoe with a slider. ichiro shakes it off. hernandez gets derek jeter above the elbow with a fastball. jet jeter is okay. two batters later same inning hernandez drills alex rodriguez in the left hand and a-rod is down. alex rodriguez left the game. we learned he has a broken bone in that left hand. expected to be out anywhere from a month to two months, maybe up until the playoffs. assuming the yankees hang in. lost the game 4-2, their fifth loss in the last six games. when we come back, wisconsin governor scott walker joins the table back over in new york. keep it on "morning joe."

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a place where innovation meets determination... and businesses lead the world. the new new york works for business. find out how it can work for yours at thenewny.com. when we come back, wisconsin welcome back to "morning joe." beautiful shot of washington, d.c. at 46 past the hour. here with us now, republican governor of wisconsin, governor scott walker. very good to have you on board this morning. >> good to be here. >> let's talk about what's going on in your state. you had to expand the drought emergency. >> for a state all 72 counties, 23 of our counties already in the southern part of the state qualify for federal designation. it's a combination of heat, with drought, which is a bad mix for both. not just the lack of water, it's pounding day after day of above 90, many cases over 100 degrees.

>> you're having trouble with your voice. is that still from your election night victory? >> it's actually more allergies being out in the farms, the fields, a little bit of allergy off that. >> what a big win, we haven't talked to you since then. >> yeah. >> a huge win. >> more votes than the last time and more votes in total and we actually won by a bigger margin. it would be nice to win no matter what the circumstances, but it's nice to be affirmed. >> how are things going in wisconsin? a cup years ago a state under siege politically? where do you sit now? >> we're in good shape. we came to talk to the binary agencies today. according to the pew system we're the only pension system fully funded. we don't have liabilities like our neighbor to the south has, illinois has. a budget for the first time in two consecutive years we put money into the rainy day fund. doesn't mean we don't have challenges ahead. we do with the economy and budget but we're a lot better

off than other states. >> i was going to say, it's a remarkable achievement out there, talking about earlier the state of the republican party and as a conservative and republican, much rather defend on the policy ground what he's doing to the crazy statements of newt gingrich or michele bachmann and all of that stuff. remarkable achievement. a state like california, 7, $800 billion in unfunded pension liabilities. it's a huge crisis in the country. one of the few governors in the country to take it on and to succeed and this is where republicans should be talking about. what republicans should be fighting on. >> that's an interesting point because what we found is, the last month or so, a lot of the voters that would come to me would say, you know, i voted for your opponent two years ago or i'm a democrat and voting for you and one of the biggest reasons that we got those independent swing voters is people said we appreciate somebody willing to take a chance at sticking their neck out to do something and i think,

obviously, that's something we could use of more at the national level. >> does that frustrate you that mitt romney still hasn't found his voice and not sticking his neck out? >> i certainly hope when they get to the convention that will be kind of the new splash out there. i think he has the capacity to. look at his background in business, olympics. >> yeah. >> i think of the big dig, a lot of times they talk about health care but an example where he rolled up his sleeves and take control, i would like to see him do that. >> he's not doing that on the campaign now. >> i don't think he is. i think there's a lot of caution. i think the mistake that they've made is feeling like it can just be a referendum on the president. it's a part of it for any incumbent has to be on do you like or dislike the not only the president but policies. people don't just vote somebody out, they want to vote somebody in that have to go hand in hand and still have to make the case which he can do at the convention. >> your buddy ed rendell will jump into the conversation. go ahead, ed. >> hi, governor. how are you? >> i just missed you at the

union league club in philadelphia a couple weeks ago. >> we were back to back. one of the reasons you did so well in the recall, was because you went before the voters of wisconsin and said you made some mistakes. i think politicians don't do that enough. can you tell our audience who may not be familiar with what you said how you said it and what impact you thought that had? >> i think that's a great point. the first time i said it was on this show talking to you, mika, joe, you tried to warn me not to answer the question. >> don't do it. >> did you learn anything and i said yeah, we learned more than anything that it's important to have results and i'm not going to avoid trying to fix things but it's also important to talk about process. i was so egg eager to fix things and i didn't talk about it. most politicians in washington talk about it and never fix it. i have to do both in the future. i mentioned that repeatedly to voters that we have learned from that. what we learned by learning that we need to do more to talk and

bring people into the mix wasn't going to be an excuse for not taking action and two can go hand in hand. >> as to collective bargaining i found from my career and looking at others that a good public official who make his case to the people effectively can win collective bargaining. collective bargaining wasn't the problem, it was politicians who gave into the unions who were the problem. don't you think you sort of overdid it a little on collective bargaining? i think it has a place and you can make your case to the people and win, it's happened in a lot of places? >> you're right. people ask, is this going to be replicated around the country? i think bits and pieces. er every state is different so nobody is going to do what we did in wisconsin or the treasurer in rhode island. not only for governors but mayors, there's such a tremendous unfunded liability. i was talking in the green room with david walker and he's got that concern, not just in the

government but across the country. huge pension liabilities and cities, that's as big as the national, federal debt problem and we've got to take that on. i think governor rendell is right, if you make the case, point out this is not an attack on public workers, this is just saying, many cases we can sustain more public workers by getting finances under control. >> what you talked about in terms of what you learned along the way in politics, telling the truth when talking to people. >> tell the truth, don't hedge, tell people. i always talk about what we did in '96 on medicare. >> right. >> where everybody ran away from the medicare cuts, that's all they talked about and at the end of the year i got a call from glen bulger, polled 100 races and what are you doing talking to seniors, saying to seniors. i said why? you have the highest approval rating among senior citizens of all the people we're polling and i made the entire campaign a referendum on why we had to scale back the rate of growth in

medicare. you tell voters the truth, they'll take it. >> and i think a lot of politicians in both parties in washington have that fear of telling the truth, but it's interesting, i talked a lot in my campaign about my children, a about -- they're not children anymore, matt is 18 years old and alex -- >> still babies to you. >> yeah. but i talked about, you know, people say why did you do what you did? i said simple matt and alex. every kid and grandkid like them in my state and for every kid and grandkid across america i think even when you talk about the federal budget, you talk about entitlements, issues like that, even seniors what do they care about more than anything? their grandkids. >> mark halperin, do you have a question? >> your criticism of governor romney's campaign, you weren't over the top, when you say stuff like that publicly, do you hear from the romney campaign? >> i hear from them directly or indirectly. >> what do they say? >> the bottom line is they've got a plan like any good campaign and what i point out to them is i'm not attacking him, i

think he has the capacity to do it, i wish he would do it more. when he was with paul ryan and i in jamesville a few weeks ago he was great. he relates to people well, relates to small business owners well. i would like to see more of that. i think maybe get him in a bus around swing states and that might amount, but he performance the best on the road. in fact, i would get rid of the podium, get him right in the crowd and defy all the stereotypes built about him in the media because i think he can relate. in many ways they've pulled him back and want it to be a referendum on the president. i don't think that's enough. >> there you go. you'll be getting some calls today. >> in about 15 minutes. >> your phone is ringing. >> you're exactly right. still ahead talking to david axelrod who may not agree with your advice, senior strategist for president obama. keep it here on "morning joe." [ ryan ] luck doesn't get you to the olympic games.

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mika, i -- >> this is exciting. >> gets no bigger than this. >> you know. >> this is the seventh sign. >> you're kind of of a big deal. from the upcoming movie "the campaign" will ferrell will be our guest here on set on friday. governor rendell, thank you. >> thank you very much. >> come back soon. >> thanks, guys. steve schmidt, see if you can get michele back man the vice

presidential nod. >> oh, great. >> chuck todd will be here to break down the nbc news/"wall street journal" polls and chris cillizza. "morning joe" back in a moment. ♪ intel bong i've still got hou orsf battery life. it's an ultrabook. i'm good. with an ultrabook, everything else seems old fashioned. introducing the ultra sleek, ultra long-lasting ultrabook. a whole new class of computers powered by intel.

welcome to the olympics. there's mitt romney, who ran the salt lake city games waving to china, home to a billion people, thousands owe their jobs to mitt romney's companies.

india, which also gained jobs thanks to romney and outsouring pioneer, and burma, where romney had the uniforms made for the 2002 games. the swiss have a special place in mitt romney's wallet -- or heart. he kept millions in swiss banks. those swiss sure know how to keep a secret. you got to say this about mitt romney. he sure knows how to go for the gold, for himself. >> that's the new ad by pro obama super pac priorities usa action, part of a $20 million ad buy that will be airing in the swing states of ohio, pennsylvania and florida during the olympics. >> what do you think? >> i think that's the problem with losing control of your campaign when you have a super pac and you can't control the message. >> that looks silly. >> off message, draws attention to the fact that it's the olympics something that mitt romney fixed. >> welcome back to "morning joe," everyone. >> i don't get it. >> steve schmidt, mark mckinnon,

along with sam stein in washington and joining the table, managing editor of the "washington post" political section and behind the blog the fix, chris cillizza. out now with a new book "the gospel according to the fix, an insider's guide to a less than holy world of politics." also from washington, nbc news chief white house correspondent and political director and host of "the daily run down" chuck todd who can help us get through some of these polls and mitt romney's foreign policy speech he delivered. >> first let's look what happened with nbc news poll. >> let's go through these. some of them showing that the weeks of negative campaigning might be taking a toll on the images of both presidential candidates. first the latest head-to-head matchup. obama leads romney by 6 percentage points among voters living in 12 key battleground states the president's lead is 8 points, 49 to 41. that's pretty much unchanged from june. but one of the biggest take

aways how both candidates are viewed. the president viewed negatively by 43% of voters, second worst rating since taking office. romney's negative rating is 40%, worst negative rating ever for this poll. when asked who was running a more negative campaign, 22% said obama's campaign was worse, 12% said romney's, and 34% said both were bad. a sign that the negative campaign attacks may be taking a greater toll on mitt romney than the president, the personal likability gap at 20 points. 67% said they personally liked president obama versus 47% who say they like mitt romney. but the economy continues to be the biggest trouble spot for the president. a majority, 53%, disapprove of how the president is handling the economy. and when asked who has better ideas for improving the economy, romney leads 43% to 36%. also reveals how voters view the direction of the economy, 27%

think it will get better within the next 12 months. lowest number for the poll since last november. the president still earning high marks on his foreign policy handling, 47 to 32%. job approval with 49% saying they approve, 48% disapprove. >> chuck todd, what's the headline of this poll? >> the negative campaign and i think both the president and romney taking on water. the president had capital to give away in his personal rating, and he's been giving it away. romney hasn't. i mean that's sort of where you look at this. if you're the obama folks you say well, yes, we've -- we're hurting ourselves a little bit. we're hurting romney more, at least that's their justification. the romney folks say hey, those net negatives they've been that way for six months, they haven't really changed and look all of those hits, those attacks, they're actually taking a little toll on obama. but i think sort of the negative

tone, you look at the numbers, enthusiasm problems among key parts of the president's base, among those most interested in this election, romney actually leads in this poll, 48 to 46. so, you know, this is one of those polls there's just a lot of bad news for both of them. a couple of glimmers of hope. july was an ugly month in this campaign and the ugliest in the history of american presidential politics. >> supporter of the president would see a six-point game and say things are going well. you dig into the numbers and say that's not the case. why is that? >> i'm saying a couple things. our sample was a little democrat heavy. if it were weighted with the same as last month it would be

identical. i go into these enthusiasm numbers you look in there of -- again, look romney is in worse shape. this poll is at halftime of the general election and tactically obama is beating romney, period. 60 days ago we were having conversations of who was going to define mitt romney. who was going to control mitt romney's buy griography, mitt r or barack obama. it's clear who has had more influence on america's perception of answering the question, who is mitt romney. it's been the obama campaign, not the mitt romney campaign. the president has -- sometimes i look at the economic numbers and i think, how is he even ahead. right. >> you look at the economic numbers and think, he should be -- actually should be behind right now and the reason he's not is he's tactically winning the campaign. >> and chris, the president has been spending a lot of money while mitt romney has been raising a lot of money, spending

a lot less. they're trying to define mitt romney, but right now, my gosh, a lot of obama supporters have to look at polls like this and say, the guy from hope and change is perceived as the negative candidate by almost two-to-one margin. >> joe, the secret of this campaign that's not a secret, this is '04 not '08 in terms of campaign tone. >> explain that. >> sure. steve can speak very eloquently to this. you can run a positive campaign on hope and change when you're ahead in every single swing state and outspending your opponent ten to one in every swing state. obama spent $750 million in 2008 and mccain took public financing about 90ish million, huge advantage in politics. obama came at a time mccain was latched to the bush administration. so many. '04, very similar to what we're facing now. really divided electorate, super polarized almost no undecideds on the main issue of the day. in '04 that was iraq.

on the main issue of the day the incumbent is struggling. obama struggling on the economy. >> you don't win, you make sure your candidate loses. you go after john kerry and in this case you go after mitt romney. >> and what did they go primarily after john kerry on? military service. was his resume the legitimate thing. you go after perceived strength. mitt romney's perceived strength, bain. it's not that dissimilar. i would say i think that the economy is more of a driver issue -- iraq was a big issue? '04 but foreign policy never as big an issue as domestic policy. i think that makes obama's case harder. chuck is right, this is a classic in that poll and what we've seen, what obama is trying do, because i think they recognize that's their path to victory, their path to victory is not a positive campaign about what barack obama has done because that's about the economy

and whether or not this is fair. public opinion of barack obama and the economy in this and every other poll we've seen is net negative. >> so sam stein, the obama people have basically said that they're going to have to take down mitt romney. they're going to have to destroy him. >> yeah. and you know, i think part of the luck that the obama people have had is that mitt romney isn't -- it's the trick. imperfect candidate for these times. if you look at the movements within the conservative movement and liberal movement, occupy wall street and the tea party are very much based on an anti-wall street sentiment. mitt romney hails from the world of private equity. fair or not, the fact that he has these foreign bank accounts feeds into the perception he's from a part of society that people distrust and, you know, i'm with chuck on this, you look at the numbers, i think it was 27% think the economy is going to get better, 8 percentage points than last month. so much skepticism around the economy it's a marvel obama is still in the lead and i think a lot has to because mitt romney is very easy to characterize or

to make a character out of. >> let's continue with that. he departs on his overseas trips stopping in london for the opening of the olympic games and then mitt romney heads on to israel and poland. says he will not criticize president obama on foreign soil, but yesterday at the veterans of foreign wars convention in reno, nevada, the republican candidate ripped the president on his foreign policies which romney says have made america weaker. >> i'm going to be leaving reno on a trip abroad. it will take me to england, poland and israel. and since i wouldn't venture into another country to question american foreign policy i'll tell you here before i leave, what i think of this administration's shabby treatment of one of our finest friends. president obama is fond of lecturing israel's leaders. he was even caught by a microphone deriding them. he's undermined their position,

which was tough enough as it was, and even at the united nations to the enthusiastic applause of israel's enemies he spoke as if our closest ally in the middle east was the problem. the president's policies made it harder to recover from the deepest recession in 70 years. exposed the military to cuts that no one can justify. compromised our national security secrets. is and in dealings with other nations, he has given trust where it is not earned, insult where it was not deserved and apology where it is not due. >> mika? >> no. >> what do you think. >> nope. >> come on. >> i got knowing. >> you're not happy. go ahead. >> i got nothing. >> you're shocked and stunned and deeply saddened. >> osama bin laden. sorry. go ahead. >> little thing --

>> really. >> so chuck todd, in the past republicans have talked that way about democratic candidate and it's worked but you look at your poll, nbc news/"wall street journal" the fact is president obama has a wider lead on his republican candidate than any democratic candidate in our lifetime that i can recall. i've never seen a democrat up by 15 percentage po inz on the issue of foreign policy. >> our pollsters think if we were polling as frequently maybe lbj over goldwater would have been the last democrat to have that advantage on foreign policy over a republican. i have to say, romney speech, i was surprised that he went so political and frankly small on the vision front. like i did not -- i expected this to be more of a little bit more -- you know, sure you do some hits on your opponent, but i expected him to lay out a little bit more of the vision. maybe they decided well, he'll do that overseas since he can't -- he's decided not to

attack the president on foreign soil, he will do all of the attacks he would like to do at various points, pack them all into this speech. it just seemed particularly that -- i thought there would be more of a balance between what he might be presenting as his foreign policy vision and wasn't a lot of meat on that bone versus the criticism. >> mark mckinnon even if president obama may have laid out a vision for himself which he might have cracked a little bit drone by drone by drone, but looking at this opportunity, did mitt romney take the opportunity here to share what his vision who he is and through foreign policy and what do you make of his comments about defense? >> a couple things, there is an opportunity we know from the positive/negative numbers a lot people still don't know about mitt romney and an opportunity for him to fill that in instead of obama. i think that looked political. what would help mitt romney is to look authentic and incredible and the way he can do that on

the foreign policy stuff is to give president obama a nod on the national security accomplishme accomplishments. on this the president has done a good job. >> bill clinton always good at that. if the republicans did something right he would toss them a bone and then go on and say but they need to improve in this area as well. not that sutley in romney's approach. >> i thought it was an unsophisticated speech. i don't think it worked. i think it was inherently political. i think mitt romney's given some really good speeches over the course of the summer, the naacp speech being one of them, for example, but i don't think it was a particularly effective speech. i don't think this is a fertile ground in the middle of the electorate that's going to decide the outcome of the election. and, you know, as we pointed out all morning long, you look at those polling advantages that the president has on that, which means it's incumbent for mitt romney, after a decade of war, after fatigue of the american people, to, you know, lay out a vision about what he wants to do. it was almost a paint by numbers

republican critique of the democratic, you know, caricature of foreign policy. wasn't in my view an effective speech. >> let's talk about the gospel according to the fix. a divine guide to deciphering the world of american politics. >> wonderful. >> talk about the gospel according to the fix. tell us about how washington really works. >> okay. >> do i have three minutes? i'll go. >> sure. push the button, go. >> you know, what i wanted to do was not write a thousand page book about why washington is broken. because we all know why washington is broken. i wanted to write a book about the good things of politics, in to politics, be like politics like we do -- >> what's the best thing about politics? >> the people. i know that's an unpopular opinion alert but i genuinely think the vast majority of folks in it are in it because they believe, you know. they're not in it -- the people,

it's the loudest voices, the minority of loud voices get the most attention but most of the people in it are in for the race. these people, most of these people are in for the right reasons. you get the john edwards, they get all the attention and press, but they're the exception to the rule. >> what happens? something mika and i talk about when we go out and talk to people, we like these people. and then what happens when you go yet more than two or three of them together? they turn into mindless blathserring idiots. >> yes. >> one on one, great. >> yes. i think part of it is people say, congress so unpopular they don't listen to us. you focus on the filibuster, all these things. the truth of the matter it's much more about how these people get elected, how they get elected. they get elected in districts where there is zero, literally zero incentive for them. people say they're not listening to us. they are. what they're listening to is the fact that you're in a district

where president bush got 95% of the vote or 5%, why would you deal with the other side if that's the case. >> why would you compromise with somebody from a swing district. >> you wouldn't. so much of that is what dictates. people say they're out of touch, they're really not. the michelle bachmann thing gets so much attention. look, her -- the people of that district elected her. you don't want to elect her anymore you have that right in 102 days or 103 days. until you do that you can't really complain. we have so much yap this as it relates to voting. they are not incentivized to work together in any meaningful way. until we do nothing is going to change. >> let's talk about something mark mckinnon in his outfit, what's that called again? >> ppenwalo. >> glad i didn't wear mine. super awkward. >> little [ inaudible ] this morning. >> disagree with the next point, which is, you don't think there's ever going to be a third

party, that works? >> look, i commend -- mark and i talked about this, i commend what they tried do with americans elect but it speaks to the difficulty of a third party you have a group that smartly, rather than saying we're going to find a candidate, we're going to start from the bottom up and get ballot access, because everybody who knows the difficulty of third party that's the hardest thing to do, but ballot access in more than half states and yet the person who gets the most votes of the on-line convention to nominate a candidate is a candidate not trying to get the nomination namely ron paul. >> ballot access is the key and i think that when we -- we know people are looking for something different. more people identifying as independents, they want problem solvers to step up to the plate, know what answers are. tired of the hyper partisanship. it's in the near future we're going to see, when you marry ballot access and the candidate steps forward, the candidate didn't step forward, a lot of reasons why, next time, four,

eight years we'll see it happen. >> mark is right. there is -- today in the polling, there is more data than there was in '92 bwhen perot wa ahead. more data that suggests people are ready for a third party and dissatisfied with the two parties than ever before. >> and you say republicans are headed for electoral oblivion but can save themselves. >> that is the gospel according to the fix. >> the best i can do. >> amazing. >> chuck, thank you. we'll see you ahead on the daily run down on msnbc, sam stein, thank you as well. >> thank you. >> up next senior adviser to the obama campaign, david axelrod joins us. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] when a major hospital wanted to provide better employee benefits while balancing the company's bottom line, their very first word was... [ to the tune of "lullaby and good night" ] ♪ af-lac

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24 past the hour. here with us now from chicago, senior strategist for the obama

campaign, david axelrod. good to see you. >> nice to see you. >> okay. start with the negative numbers, i just want to ask him. >> sure. >> all right. so the president's viewed negatively by 43%. 43% of voters. >> set this up. what's wrong with you. president's rating -- >> do you want a minute to work this through? >> no, we're good. >> how are you responding and please don't tell me you don't look at these polls. >> of course i look at the polls and mika, understand that there have been probably 110, 120 million dollars of negative ads run against the president in the last -- just in the last few months and so they're going to have an impact. you know they're going to have an impact. that's just part of politics. i think what's noteworthy is the

presidents's standing has held up under this torrent and i think there are growing questions about governor romney that he's abetted because they won't talk about his past and the future. that's a hard way to get elected president of the united states. >> one of the numbers that really jump out at all of us around the table was the question on who was the more negative, who's running the more negative campaign, and almost by a two-to-one margin, the respondents said the obama campaign is running the more negative campaign than the romney campaign. >> partly, joe, that's because the romney campaign and their -- and their friends in the super pac world have just spent tens of millions of dollars specifically on spots accusing obama of running a negative campaign. so i'm not surprised to see those numbers jump a little. >> it's not your negative ads, it's their negative ads accusing you of being negative that has caused -- >> that had an impact on the

numbers. there's no doubt we've been tough and we've raised questions that needed to be raised. frankly still haven't been answered about governor romney, about his tenure in business, about his tenure in massachusetts. that's part of this process, joe. you get scrutinized in this process and we've run ads as we are right now about his vision about how we rebuild this economy and the president's and whether we'll focus on the middle class or back to the top down economics that was so disastrous for us in the last decade. >> mark mckinnon is here and he has a question. >> how are you doing? two ads. one the one you mentioned called the choice, the best ad of the campaign, frames up the election, frames the choice, terrific message, reminds me of the 60 second spot in the last campaign. you have an ad up responding to romney's charges about the president's notions about who --

taking credit for what you build or didn't build yourself. a hit dog barks. sounds like you're barking. does that mean you're hit? >> no. i had a talk with mark halperin about this yesterday. the -- when that ad came up, first of all, i should say i was on my stairmaster yesterday watching you guys in that segment where senor and buddy from cnbc was on with joe and they were all chatting and they sort of stated as fact that the president said that business people don't make their own fortune and, of course, that's not what he said at all. what he said was we need to support their efforts by building roads and schools and supporting technology and doing those things that augment our economy. i was concerned when i saw the initial ad it might be impactful. i've conclude it's not all that

impactful. the ad in response got a very good response in the kind of testing we did because it pushes our message forward and if you look at the response ad, mark, many of the elements of that response ad really complement what's in the 60. we felt we could not only brush them back but extend the message of the 60 by running that ad. >> mark halperin. >> david, a lot of focus on what governor romney will do at the convention, his convention, to introduce himself. what are your goals at the consflengs more focused on talking about the president's second term agenda, defining governor romney, how do you see that? >> i think we're going to focus on the main issue of this election, how do we rebuild an economy which the middle class is growing and not shrinking, promote an economy if you work hard you can get ahead and how do we promote an economy which people can have confidence their children's future might be better. that's the central issue of our time. the president has a very strong and visceral feeling about this,

given his history and we'll talk about all of that. we'll talk about what has been done and what we need to do in the future. >> talk about bain -- >> to achieve that vision. >> about bain capital and governor romney's record as well? >> i think governor romney will, obviously, be a subject of discussion there, but i don't think that's the main focus. you cannot have a serious discussion about the election, mark, however without talking about the choice. and just as we're -- the president is talking about the choice in the ad that you guys just mentioned, he'll be talking about the choice there and others will be talking about the choice. >> steve schmidt. >> good morning. >> this is like a panel of reform strategists here. like a self-help group of some sort. >> david, first convention, you know, since 2000 where the republicans are going to go

first because of incumbency, very, very close race, you know, typically successful convention, you're going to see i expect you you know guessed that, mitt romney after a convention will come out a little ahead and bounce up. what's the over/under on the bounce that you expect him to get to define a successful convention? >> steve, i think you know, because we've all been looking at the same numbers, there's not a lot of play here. there's not a lot of room for a big bounce of the sort that, you know, we've seen. back in the '80s we all remember mike dukakis at a convention ended up 17 points ahead by the time they got to the republican convention that was dissipated. i don't think there's room for that bounce and our convention comes on the heels of their convention, so, you know, i'm sure he'll get a bounce out of it because everybody does. i think there are specific challenges for him with his convention because of the nature of his candidacy and the

republican party right now and a lot of goals that he needs to satisfy. is he going to run his convention for the satisfaction of his base? is he going to try to reach over to swing voters? i'm sure they're trying to figure all of that out. it's not without difficulty, but i think the notion of a huge bounce is unlikely. >> you know, david, mitt romney obviously was critical of the president yesterday on his foreign policy speech. >> you think? >> yeah. just subtly. there were subtle suggestions. >> little things. >> around the edges. >> yes. >> but he also criticized the white house for leaking classified national security secrets. the democratic leader of the senate fell intelligence committee, dianne feinstein, as you know, accused the white house of leaking classified information. you look at a lot of these stories front page of the "new york times" it's obvious somebody in the white house is leaking that information. can the president guarantee us it wasn't him, first of all, and secondly, these leaks will stop?

>> first of all, joe, you know that senator feinstein said yesterday that she actually -- actually has no knowledge of where these leaks came from, so she brought back what she said on monday. it's true that authors of the two main books that are in question here, both said the white house was not the source of the leaks. >> but joe there is -- >> they're going to protect their sources but you know there's front page stories in "the new york times" about kill lists, i could list five stories, it is very obvious, it is very obvious the white house is leaking classified information. >> well, joe, i can tell you, that the president of the united states did not leak classified information, as mitt romney suggested yesterday, didn't authorize the leak of classified information, as mitt romney suggested yesterday, and i think it was largely a diversion

because what's he going to talk about? is he going to talk about the fact that this president has decimated al qaeda? is he going to talk about the fact that the president brought osama bin laden to justice. no. this what is he's talking about. >> stop the distraction. i'm not suggesting that the president of the united states leaked classified information, but i stated -- >> then we're making progress here. >> actually, i was -- >> you should tell that to governor romney. >> governor romney doesn't return my phone calls but you can keep talking if you don't want me to ask the follow-up question which is -- >> go ahead. >> can the president assure america that his white house will baton down the hatches and stop the release of this classified information that is disturbing not only to men and women in the military, but disturbing to millions of americans. >> joe, i don't think there's a person on this planet who is more concerned about the security of our troops, the security of people who are working for us around the world to protect us. so absolutely the president's

policy is that we should not be leaking classified information. >> so what's gone wrong? >> without question. >> why is it leaking out of the white house? how do we stop it? >> joe, there's an investigation going -- well, you stop it by sending strong signals, strong signals have been sent. there are leaks out of every administration. i noted that governor romney sent out yesterday a guy to issue a statement deploring leaks who was part of the -- who was scooter libby's aide in the white house and involved in that scandal. i don't think they have a heck of a lot of credibility on this issue. >> i unfortunately donfortunate speak for scooter libby. you say there's an investigation going on, internal investigation by the white house itself to try to figure out where the leaks are coming from of these classified documents and the information to stop it? >> well, the white house has always -- is always vij lnts

about that but an external investigation by the justice department. two u.s. attorneys looking at this. i'm sure they will get to the bottom of whatever happened. >> are you guys conducting your own internal investigation? >> as i said, i think the president has been clear, publicly and privately, he will never ever authorize the leak of classified information, nor will he jeopardize the men and women whose safety he is responsible for as commander in chief. and so, you know, there's just no question about that. >> okay. >> david axelrod, thank you so much for joining us. >> okay. good to be with you. >> thank you, david. by the way, tell burton, he's not helping you with that olympic ad. >> yeah. >> all right. i haven't seen the ad but i will -- >> oh, man. >> you got to watch it, man. not helping out. >> come on, take this thing down, guys. >> okay. david, thank you. >> thank you, david. >> we'll see you. >> coming up later, former secretary of homeland security

tom ridge joins the conversation. also from crosby stills and nash, graham nash will be here. we'll be right back. [ cellphone rings ] the wife. hey, babe. got the jetta. i wiped the floor with the guy! not really.

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with us now the ceo of comeback america initiative and former comptroller of the u.s., dave walker who is here announcing his organization's upcoming $10 million a minute bus tour. yes children they're coming to your neighborhood and pumping millions of dollars -- that's not it. with us, former undersecretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs and executive directors of the george w. bush institute jim glassman, george w. bush institute out with its first book "the 4% solution"

unleashing the economic growth america needs. we'll talk about that in one minute you brought a sign with you dave walker. www.10 million a minute.com. it's not the debt clock. if you add the total liabilities and unfunded promises for social security when we roll the tour, 70, 410, 400, 000, 000. the u.s. in the hole $70 trillion. the debt clock doesn't take it all in, the unfunded social security mandate, unfunded medicare mandate. >> it doesn't take it unfunded pensions, retiree health care for civilians and military, the things that governor scott walker had to deal with. the real problem at the federal, state and local level not what's on the ballot sheet, it's what's off the balance sheet. we have huge promises that need to be restructured and outdated tax system -- >> we've been talking about this

for years. in 2004 after i wrote a book in 2004, actually criticizing george w. bush and democrats for not doing what they needed to do to bring down the national debt and it's just gone up. i was complaining about $11 trillion debt we're on our way to 20 trillion. >> in 2000 this number was $20.4 trillion. so from 2000 to now, it's gone up $50 trillion. >> unbelievable. >> and the campaign right now is about the past, problems in personalities. it needs to be about the future, about tough choices, it needs to be about solutions. we're going to swing states at a time that matters on an important issue. >> you talk about the 4% solution. >> yes. >> i would like to hear about that. >> what is the 4% solution. >> it's that america needs to grow at 4% real gdp. we've averaged 3%. we're now at 2% if we're lucky. if we don't grow at this rate, if we don't grow at this rate,

the problems that david talks about are never going to be solved. we need growth. we want all of america, we want the candidates to focus on growth. that is -- it's an up idea, it's aspirational and we've got tons of solutions there including five chapters by nobel prize winners. >> it's fascinating, george w. bush wrote the forward. really sticking his neck out in politics that much right now but he got involved in this project, why? >> because he is deeply involved in policy issues why he set up the institute, he's not involved in politics at this point in his post-presidency, but policy, yes. you saw he just went to africa a couple weeks ago and a big project there to fight cancer among african women. this is a big thing for him. >> what do we need to grow the economy 4%? in your introduction you say we can do it. how? >> we do a wide range of things, that's what the book relates, tax reform, spending cuts.

in the short term, maybe we get a little bit of a boost out of spending, but it's empty calories. in the long term you need to cut spending. liberate the private enterprise. it's immigration, interesting story in "the washington post" here about baltimore bringing in immigrants. we need to do a better job of keeping really smart, the best and the brightest not sending them away, energy. it covers the gum mutt. we have to talk about solutions. >> the spending cuts, would that include defense? >> well, certainly take a really good look at defense. you know -- >> cuts in defense? >> 6% under reagan, now about 4.5% of gdp. it can be cut more, probably can. >> the election needs to be about the economy, jobs, fiscal responsibility. we need to grow and we need to grow 4% or more, but we can't solve our problem with growth. we need to avoid the fiscal

cliff, deal with the structural deficits. we need to cut defense without compromising national security and we can do it. reform social security and medicare, medicaid. we need to rationalize our health care promises, reform our tax system and generate more revenues and all that and more and better do it quick. >> here's the $64,000 question. can you cut right now in the short term? obviously i think we all agree you have to cut in the long term. can you cut in the short term and get to a 4% growth rate. >> here's what we need to do. we don't want to have significant spending reductions in our current situation. we don't want to have significant tax increases in our current situation. >> over the next year. >> so that's why we've got to avoid the fiscal cliff. we must be able to put together a plan that ends up getting debt as a percentage of the economy down to a reasonable and sustainable level. phased in over time. >> i think we need to cut. i think we need to cut? >> in the short term. >> yeah. >> how do you cut at the short term and grow at 4%?

>> because when you cut, you leave money in the private sector. you're never going to get growth in america through government. i think you would agree with that certainly. so the money has to be left in the private sector so that you get growth. how do you do that? you start how do you do that? you start cutting. right now, we're spending 24% of our gdp to federal government not even including the state government. we've averaged historically between 18% and 20%. that's a big, big difference. we've got to get back down to that level. >> steve smith, aren't you glad you're not running the presidential campaign this year. we've got two things going on here. we talk about it all the time the united states is in vise. we get the crisis. the economy is shrinking, globalization is presenting all these new challenges. the u.s. has to do two things at the same time. and right now, i don't hear a

candidate out there that can somehow britian the two problems together. >> yeah, the political debate is just totally detached from reality. neither candidate is talking at any level about these issues. and the issues outlined in this book. it's a great book. this say question of yea generational theft. it's a profound moral issue for our time. the bankrupting, the future of the country, and the next generation. and there's a total absence of intellectual, serious and honest debate. and there's but a handful of politicians. we had one of them on the set this morning, chris christie, i'd put in that category, but a very small number of people that are talking honestly and credibly to the american people about these issues. >> we're not stealing from our grandchildren, we're stealing from our children, from ourselves now. >> you heard the story, tax the guy behind the tree. now it's don't tax me, tax the

baby on my knee. >> that's good. >> it's inethical, it's immoral. but how we solve this problem raises questions too. the federal government was 2% of the economy years ago. now, 24%. it's heads to 37% by 2014. we can solve this problem in less of the gdp and should by separating -- >> can i just say, this is a very grim discussion -- >> and that's what we do best. >> and this is quite an uplifting book. there are solutions. >> yeah, there are solutions. >> this is actually an uplifting book. it says america is not in the past. america can do it now. we're not just talking generalities. here's the solutions. >> when you talk about tax, what kind of tax? >> i'm talking about lowering the rates, broadening the base by getting rid of exemptions. i'm talking about taxes consumption, rather than income and investment.

and simplefication. i think that's a bipartisan solution. actually, this book has got lots of bipartisan solutions and we're looking for more. >> on that happy note -- >> 4%. you can read an exempt in our blog, mojo@msnbc. >> when did it launch again? >> september 9th, we go to 20 states all over the country. www.10millionaminute.com. thanks. >> there you go. more "morning joe" in just a moment. ♪ ♪

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♪ on friday, will ferrell will be here, live on the set. for the new film "the campaign." that should be fun. still ahead this morning, former second of homeland tom ridge. and the new surprising numbers in the nbc/"wall street journal" news. mark halperin, stan stein, a cast of thousands. keep it right here on "morning joe." an accident doesn't have to slow you down. with better car replacement, if your car is totaled, we give you the money for a car one model year newer.

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♪ ♪ i'm got a song that ain't got no melody ♪ welcome to the olympics. there's mitt romney who ran the salt lake city games, waving to china. home to a billion people. thousands of their jobs to mitt romney's companies. india, which also gained jobs thanks to romney and outsourcing pioneer. and burma, where romney had the uniforms made for the 2002 games. we know the swiss have a special place in mitt romney's wallet or heart. he kept millions in swiss banks. those swiss sure know how to keep us equal. you've got to say this about mitt romney, he sure knows how to go for the gold for himself.

good morning, it's 8:00 on the east coast. 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. it's time to wake up, everyone. >> get up now. >> don't you love it. let's take a live look at new york city. >> get out of there. >> you gotta. back with us on set. mark hall erin, steve schmidt, mark mckin and stan stein. >> it's obviously a comedy spot. >> who did that -- isn't there -- you have to put a credit, like? >> it was from the comedy stylings of priority usa action. >> that's obama's super pac? >> yeah, yeah. >> wow, mark halperin. seriously, i thought i was watching a late-night comedy skit.

let's roll it again. >> william to the olympics, there's mitt romney who ran the salt lake city games waving to china, billions of people. india which also gained jobs thanks to romney and outsourcing pioneer. and burma, where romney had the uniforms made for the 2002 games. we know the swiss have a special place in mitt romney's wallet or heart. he kept millions in swiss banks. those swiss sure know how to keep us equal. you got to say this about mitt romney, he sure knows how to go for the gold for himself. >> willie geist, you're in london. i don't know what to say. >> that's terrible. >> that is horrible. >> that was bad. >> that looks like a late night clip. >> i understand the outsourcing message. but was it a negative that you took over the 2002 salt lake city games that were a disaster

and sort of rescued them and made them a source of pride for the country? i don't know i'd put a negative message against that backdrop. >> yeah, that's a good one. >> by the way, how's it going over there? who is going to be outsourcing? >> joe, it's hot -- like 85 degrees over here. we were ready. i brought the rain slicker and the whole thing. apparently, it's going to rain on friday in time for the opening ceremonies. the games start society. women's soccer begins today. team usa is playing france up in scotland. >> by the way, willie starts his show at 10:30. >> yes. >> must be nice. >> you'll have a nice week. >> can we go back? >> what did you think of the ad? >> i thought it was very funny. >> a good funny or a bad funny? >> an irrelevant funny. i don't think anybody pays

attention to what's on usa's site. >> that's way too much money and time. mika, we of course last week reported on a cbs news "new york times" poll. >> and yes and it gives the president some breathing room? >> yes, i guess it raises the question of whether the weeks and weeks of the campaign is taking a toll on the candidates. let's look at the head to head matchup. romn obama leads romney with 6 percentage points. and 41% to 49%. that's pretty much unchanged from june. one of the biggest takeaways are now the candidates are viewed. the president is viewed at 40%, the second worst since taking office. romney is 40%.

>> mark halloran, the negatives are up for both candidates, why? >> there's been a lot of nonintelligent ads, and a lot of negative rhetoric out there. i can't imagine they'll go down pudg much, but they do have their conventions. they'll face interesting choices. how negative do they go. how do they try to row habl tate their guy. >> conventions are going to be key. this thing is going to be locked up. interesting thing for romney, with the numbers, there's still 25% who really don't know. he's got an upside potential. >> you see the numbers going higher and higher. this goes to what you've been talking about all year. all year, we've been talking about needing to find a middle way, at least rhetorically finding middle ground. the negatives, president is up at 43%.

romney at 40%. it's like governors, they get elected with high ratings, that they can't govern. >> with the ad, i think it's the best ad of the campaign so far. >> steve schmidt, i don't mean to be negative in july, i don't see given the current climate and the billions of dollars of ads that are going to be spent over the next four months, five months, i don't see how either one of these candidates can get elected. if mitt romney gets elected and thinks he can do whatever he wants just because he won, i mean, democrats are going to kill him. and it's the same thing with president obama, if he thinks re-election somehow justifies him in republicans' minds, he doesn't know washington. >> if you look at the debt default in that debate, it's going to look like child's play compared to the sequestration.

it's going to drive the ratings and it's going to be a clinical on negative functions. >> when asked who is running a more negative campaign, 12% for romney. >> who would have believed, sam stein, from years ago, that almost doubled the republican candidate being seen as running a more negative campaign? and again, i think that's a crisis. and do you agree with mark that perhaps that's the reason that you're suddenly seeing positive campaign ads from president obama? >> yeah, i agree with mark. i mean, that was the brand. obama was someone who was post partisan. he didn't engage in politics as usual. that's what got him to 52% in 2008. it was sort of a myth as steve can attest, they ran negative ads. but he was able to keep that

brand. but what this poll shows it's diminishing, i think you're seeing a subtle shift -- maybe not so subtle, from the campaign where they want to focus more on the positive elements of his platform. they want to rebut the small business attack, but also talk about the president's agenda. the other thing, obama is just on the air more than mitt romney in large part because of the restrictions on spending money prior to the convention. more people are seeing negative ads from him. that's going to change after the convention but the conventions are going to set the tone as well. >> you know, mr. negative ads work, you've seen mitt romney's numbers, negatives go up, but there is a law of diminishing returns. i always bring up, only because it's my own state, they ask, why do you always bring this up, it's because it's my own state. rick scott, governor of florida. he won, but he won by running a lot of negative campaigns. he started with a 33%, 34%

approval rating. it's been hard for him to get that approval rating up. we're seeing that across the country more and more. and it looks like we're now starting to see it in washington with the president. you know, everybody thinks -- all these campaign operatives think, hey, if we run negative ads, they're bad but they work. well, there is always a cost on the other side of that. there is always a cost. and i'm afraid here, the cost is going to be borne out by the american people who is going to have a president elected, be it romney or obama, that is not going to be able to govern because all of of the crap we're going to see in the next four to five months. >> yeah, joe, i think that's a real problem. although i think the winner has a chance. if the winner a week after getting elected holds a press conference and says the country is facing dangerous times. we've got to get together. we've got to do some version of simpson bowles, i'm going to work with everybody to make that a reality in the next few

months, i think we have a chance to change the dynamics. >> oh, come on. i cannot believe a tough philadelphia guy that can go out and somehow magically scrape up the number of votes that democrats need in philadelphia for state wide elections would have such a sunny disposition. when you know if romney wins democrats are going to be looking at every one of these negative attacks and taking them to heart. and they're going to pay romney back for four years. and the same goes with president obama. >> and, joe, you're probably right. but if i was the winner, i'd still try it. i'd try to come out within a week and say, okay, it's over. all of the hate, all the tough stuff is over. now, we've got to govern, and here's the road map. and if we have any guts or courage -- >> ed, how is it zimpt the next four years than the last four years for president obama? >> you're right, joe. i turned to my advisers and said it's going to be easier now

because they have no reason to tear me down, right? and my advisers said, welcome to harrisburg. >> the second term, mark, you know it, is always tougher. and the obama people, and we know them well, and we talk to them and we like them, they somehow think the second election validates them. no, it does not. ask bill clinton if the second election validated him. ask ronald reagan. ask richard nixon. ask them all. >> and to your point, joe, there is going to be $2 billion more spent this cycle from super pacs, and 100% of those ads are negative. $2 billion in addition to what the campaigns are doing. so, you're right. the environment and the mood is going to be so incredibly poisonous by the time somebody gets elected, it's going to be very difficult for either one of them to govern. >> joe, i also think, joe, though, there's a price to be paid even before the election. and the price for president obama is some of his supporters

are diminishing in enthusiasm. >> right. >> if you look at the poll, the poll is basically good news for the president. except look at high-interest voters. and those are voters that say it's 9 or 10 out of 10 likely that they're going to vote. romney is high-interest voters. and that's a red sign for the president. >> so a sign that the attacks may be taking a greater poll on mitt romney than the president. 60% say they personally like president obama versus 47% saying they like mitt romney. the economy, though, continues to be the biggest trouble spot for the president. in the majority, 53% disapprove of how the president is handling the economy. when asked who has better ideas for improving the economy, romney leads 43% to 36%. >> the question is, you hire an accountant you don't like. >> well, what we were talking about, you move into the conventions now and you move into the debates. you're going to have audiences

of 40,000 people, 50,000 people who are watching this stuff. we have 105 days left but we really have like 12 critical hours left in the campaign. if you're mitt romney, you're going to have to have a good convention speech. you're going to have to explain why you like the president. >> close that credibility gap. there's got to be something like a story that he's willing to share and put on the table. >> he seems to be lying in the weeds here. we know the romneys. even though we're very tough on him. we know the romneys, they're great people. those boys, man, the great people. ann romney is just wonderful person. and, again, you see that family. you go, romney? he's a winner. because you know what, you know what, what's the old saying, you're wearing something that i don't know what you're wearing, but i think you're -- >> are you okay? >> i think you're from texas or something.

>> yeah. >> there's an old saying that the frog didn't get up on the post by accident. >> turtle. >> what? >> the turtle. you know it didn't get there by itself. >> if you see five boys that are great decent men and you see a wife and a family and grandkids, and you go wow, this say remarkable family. it didn't happen by itself. >> think about all the conventions where we all said, oh, they wiped the slate clean. remember al gore's speech. it's a huge potential -- >> i don't remember the al gore speech. i remember the kids -- >> i remember screaming to myself. >> they're putting stuff on the table and then there's way too much information. >> you know who this is all good for? people who write books about the campaign. >> yes, it is. yes, it is. >> but steve schmidt, i think we're going to see when we see the romney family, that's the sort of thing when you roll it out at the convention, romney's team seems to be laying back.

they're not spending money like obama's people are. >> or it's the candidate. >> he's not really taking, staking bold positions. >> you know we're in a presidency that's a default judgment. it doesn't automatically default to you. you have to explain to the american people why do you want to be president of the united states? what is the plan to turn the country around? and you're going to have tens of millions of people who will be watching his convention speech. you look at the 1988 campaign where george herbert walker bush had a lot of similarities here to some of the problems that mitt romney has. one of the most brilliant speeches given at an american political convention written by peggy noonan, that humanized him, explained him, connected him to the middle class of the country. it's not going to happen for mitt romney. i think we have to see when the convention is. >> so also revealing is how voters view the direction of the

economy. just 27% think it will get better within the next 12 moss. the lowest number since this poll since last november. >> sam stein, what's that mean for the president? >> it means terrible things. people are generally pessimistic about what's happening to the economy. and you blame him. clearly the numbers are with romney, but on the brand, on the prescriptions for the middle class, people tend to side with the president. one number we haven't talked nab this poll, it's sort of buried in there, if they weighed what the positives and negatives for the democratic party and the republican party. for democrats, something like 40/40. for republicans, 43/33. it's clear that people side with what the democrats are doing. it's to be seen whether he can actually do a pro-active

positive pace for his candidacy. >> when we come back, secretary of homeland security tom ridge who is out today with a concerning new report on why the u.s. is still vulnerable tour terror attacks and disasters. is that going to be so we make sure we don't cut defense? we're going to have to talk about that. also ahead from the legendary rock band, crosby, stills, nash and young. graham nash joins us to talk about what's next for the band, minus neil young. but first, bill karins who also played at woodstock. >> he loves the tambourine. >> bill? >> i performed well. well, good morning, everyone. thunderstorms are greeting us up through the great lakes. the heat wave will peak today

and hopefully knock it down. right now, thunderstorms are rolling across wisconsin and minnesota. what a beautiful day for the eastern seaboard and much of the west, too. exceptions being right on the coast in california. but 102 in kansas city. look how hot, 100s through dallas, oklahoma, most of missouri, including that eye-shattering 106 in st. louis. look what happens tomorrow, we finally cool things off for the middle of summer into the 90s with thunderstorms. so, again, the big head line is today, hopefully, this is the really, really last hot day in the midwest. it's not like the heat wave is going away. our friends in dallas, texas, they're easily 100-plus right through the upcoming weekend. you're kind of used to that in dallas, not like our friends up in chicago, and st. louis. willie geist will lead our first coverage live from the olympics

at 10:30, followed by women's soccer. right back here with "morning joe." do you see it ? there it is ! there it is ! where ? where ? it's getting away ! where is it ? it's gone. we'll find it.

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♪ welcome back to "morning joe." at 23 past the hour. joining us now from capitol hill, former republican governor from pennsylvania and former secretary of homeland security, tom ridge. and here on set, we have -- >> good morning. >> -- good morning. the host of cnbc "street signs."

governor ridge, i know you're unveiling a report along with the alliance for american more of manufacturing. first of all, are you affiliated with them? >> no it's an appropriate question. i'm not affiliated with them. they asked a colleague of mine, bob stephen, to take a look at a risk with supply chains, interest rate development and preparedness. we're happy to do it. i'm from pennsylvania and looking at critical infrastructure. we used to make a lot of stuff in pennsylvania. >> that's what you do in pennsylvania. tell us what you found? >> well, first of all, i've had a front row seat on the intersection of national security and economic security and prosperity for a long, long time. they are interdependent, they

are interrelated and inseparable. given the world in which we live in which the geopolitical risk and economic risks are bigger than they've ever been, the report says to policymakers, it's about time we step back and do a risk assessment with regard to our vulnerabilities because of the extensive supply chain that we have. we took a look at infrastruct e infrastructure, and preparedness needs. based on the 21st century world offering an entirely different set of challenges if you want to be secure with the nation. your economy has to be secure. you need to be more grounded in competitive manufacturing. and then we make some very specific recommendations how you go about assessing those risks. >> okay. so what did you find in terms of level of risk, especially with interdependence you were talking about? >> it's a great question because if you take a look at the againstcy on the pharmaceutical,

and the infrastructure needs, we have supply chains that are extended throughout the world. we have great infrastructure needs. and we're simply saying without drawing any preliminary conclusions that it's up to the policymakers at this time, in the 21st century, to take a look at dependencies. we too dependent on certain places for materials in certain areas of world to send us materials, to end us goods, that if there was a geopolitical prices or a national weather event, or a black swan even that we'd be able to access those materials. if there was an incident here in the united states that would require massive rebuilding do we have the capability to do that with the existing manufacturing base we have. the simple answer to that is we don't know. the policymakers you better start taking a look at these things, the 21st century world say lot different than anything before. the geopolitical risks are there. the national disaster risks are

there. let's start thinking about our future. >> brian sullivan. >> governor ridge, it's brian sullivan. now states are even competing with each other. v.w. has got a big factory in tennessee. a number of states went for that business. tennessee got it. forget about the u.s. being comparable to asia. how does pennsylvania compete against the lower-cost states? make the case for a pennsylvania factory right now? >> well, once a governor, always a governor. and i'll go back to some of the reforms that we built during my tenure as governor. i suspect my colleague, governor rendell, continued them. i think in terms of our worker compensation rates are competitive in the region, clearly, clearly, clearly, they discovered the marcellus shale and the opportunity to drive a

lot of the industrial energy costs down because of the reduced cost in electricity and energy because of the natural gas supply, you've got a very sophisticated, a very talented labor force. and frankly, i think there's a series -- at least to me, a series of incentives that we're constantly competing with the other 49 states. that i think you take that package together and you can leverage private sector business back into pennsylvania. as i said before, once a governor, always a governor. and build in pennsylvania. >> okay. mark hall erin. >> governor, you're also one of the country's biggest experts on homeland security. as voters evaluate president obama and the job he's done, what grade would you give him as homeland security president? >> well, i've always been troubled by the fact that the president and many in administration from the homeland security perspective when it comes to the jihadists and the extremists view them as -- view

it as economic activity. i think that's a -- i don't think, within that characterization, there's that sense of urgency that i think we need to always be on our toes. to be a lot more vigilant about the threat of these jihadists. when it come to the broader national security interests i must express supreme and extreme disappointment. in the fact that for whatever reason, and regardless of the source, there have been serious, serious security leaks. around the bin laden raid. around the virus involving the iranian nuclear program. around, again, the doctor that we threw under the bus that assisted us in getting information. there was a revelation that we had a double agent in yemen that helped us break up a cell, a threatened plot. there's a series of things that the president has done that i think frankly disappoints us. and the security leaks in my

opinion are a major national security problem. >> with all of that taken into consideration, as well as getting bin laden in aggressive pursuit using drones and other methods, would you say the president gets an "a," a "b," a "c" -- >> of the things you like? >> yes, you've got to give president obama credit for taking out bin laden. now the infrastructure upon which he was able to base that, both the military and security infrastructure was in large part because of the administration but he does get an "a" and deserves there. >> so are there success or failures as a national security president? >> i think a "c." i don't like gives out grades but "c" seems appropriate. i think we rely on the u.n. extensively. perhaps too much. i'm not sure we developed over the four years the kind of

relationships with foreign leaders that are essential for this country to develop and work on a multilateral response to some of the crises we see in the north today. i think the president has created some distance between us and the best ally we have. and that's israel. and i'll tell you one other thing, the wife of the assassinated president, we had a conversation. she said in our part of the world, it's better to be respected than liked. i think for a lot of folks who like president obama personally, but they take a look and we don't seem to be -- there's a level of expectation that america will lead in times of crisis. >> yes. >> and there are those who think we're somewhat introspective these days in self-doubting. and have not really been the kind of leader that the free world looks to when they look to the president of the united states. >> governor, a number of years ago, a chinese company made it,

unical. china made a deal to buy a huge canadian energy company. so there was no fear on the canadian side. does the u.s. become at risk for becoming too protectionist? >> i think there's that risk for foreign investment. i think we have to be open for foreign investment. i think we have to be careful for the kind of investment we accept. and frankly, if a foreign company wants to invest our dollars back into the united states, particularly china, as long as they don't have control over the enterprise itself and there are no security. and you know there's a process involving the department of defense, the department of state, the department of homeland security to make an assessment as to whether or not it is a risk or jeopardizes national security, i think we ought to welcome fdi whenever we can get it. >> tom ridge, the new report is

on u.s. security on the alliance. graham nash from the legendary group, crosby, stills and nash. keep it right here on "morning joe." ♪ now everything is easy because of you ♪ [ cellphone rings ]

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♪ ♪ traveling the train through the rockin' sky ♪ ♪ wall to wall american ladies five foot tall ♪ that's his legendary group. crosby stills and nash from the first concert in more than 20 years. now out on dvd and blu-ray and joining us on the set, graham nash. >> this is big. >> how fun for us. maybe not fun for you. >> well, very big. >> yeah. >> i mean, we can talk about whatever. we can talk about hollies -- >> you name it. listen to this, what do you want to talk about? >> well, you know, i'm here to push the csn 2012 thing. our lives involves the huge

spectrum of the living experience. we get up in the morning, we're glad we're alive, we check everything going on in the world and we start to write about it. that's what we do. >> on the periphery in politics. politics mattered to to you. mark halperin is no slacker in this. he said, my god, i just came out of the green room and reminds me of all the people that said it's a shame you weren't born in america, people have been saying you should run for president. >> hey, they could change the law. arnold schwarzenegger tried to do that, right? >> exactly. >> what are your biggest concerns right now politically? >> politically? >> yeah. >> i think you have to strike hard. one of the main things is citizens united. i think the ability to buy a democracy say terrible, terrible thing. not only would i like personally to see citizens united reversed, i'd reich to investigate who gave us citizens united, scalia,

thomas, those people. and i'm very upset about the supreme court right now. i don't believe personally they should have lifetime jobs. i think people get senile. i think they get unbiased. they're not supposed to be. but it's not good. >> but you do have a picture of john roberts hanging over your beds right? >> and he's naked, too. >> fantastic. >> the only one in existence. >> everybody knows about csn, you go back and look at woodstock, just a remarkable time there. let's talk about the hollys for one second. i'm a big hollys fan. >> you know what happened to me recently i was awarded the obe by the queen of england. i did the palace thing. you go and you're instructed how to deal -- you can't talk to her, you can't cough on her. >> right, right. >> if she starts to talk to you then you're in a conversation for 30 seconds whatever it is.

>> right. >> she said to me, and how are the hollys? >> i love it. >> and i'm standing there goes i'm talking to the queen of england and she's asking me about the hollys. wow. >> she probably goes around still humming "carrie ann" you know. >> exactly. >> brian said he's got something -- >> i know. i already feel like this is going to be awkward. is this going to be awkward? >> listen, despite the tie and everything. huge fan, graham. steven stills manassas i are to say was very good. anyway, we had the apple numbers out. talking about music in the business. and music is important. i can listen to anything on spotify. >> that's going to kill itunes. >> spotify. i tweeted it out this could wreck the apple ecosystem. sounds like it could change.

here's how this has changed. i still listen to records. this is your album "wild tales" from '80? >> '73. >> oh, my gosh. forgive me. it's kind of beaten up. >> well used. >> well, it is well used and well liked. you used to buy this. a cd or a tape. 8-track maybe. now i pay 100 bucks a year for essentially unlimited music. how does the music industry survive this? >> it changes. everything changes. everything moves forward. >> are you paid fairly for the music i listen to? >> i don't believe so. even in terms of e-books why would you have to pay $11 for a set of data that gets transferred in seconds. there's no physical things when you buy an e-book. why do they cost so much? >> you don't make enough from music electronically, but you're saying e-books cost too much?

>> i think e-books cost too much. yeah. it's very difficult when you make an album, you know, sometimes, you're a million dollars into making the album. but if you can't get that million dollars back, why would you do it? apart from the alteristic thing. >> it started obviously with napster, the record industry didn't pick up on it. >> they missed the boat drastically. and everyone was telling us, the digital revolution is coming. every record coming. >> do you think there will ever be a day we'll kick back to albums? you know, for all of us, it was so exciting to go to the store, to pick up an album, to open up -- you read the liner notes. >> yes. >> you have a better perspective

on this than we do. >> yeah. >> because we've never not known us. i would love to have been able to put on that first crosby stills, gnanash record and not w anything about it and listen to what we do. >> when did you first realize -- when did you first realize it was magic? >> way before that. we were having dinner. steven played me "you don't have to cry." he and crosby had been doing it two part. i asked them to do it again. on the third part, i put my part in. whatever sound crosby, stills and nash had vocally, it was brought in just a minute. >> whatever it is, you could have been having dinner with a thousand different people, but who was it --

>> cass elliott. she introduced me to more. >> really? >> yes. 1966, knickerbocker hotel, i think on hollywood boulevard. >> somewhere in laurel canyon. >> cass picked me up at noon. i want to introduce you to my friend. who is it? just come with me. she takes me up to crosby's house. he's sitting there lying on a couch. there's not a stick of furniture in the house except an incredible sound system and a couch, right? and crosby is lying on this couch, not only is he playing incredible music, he just introduced joni mitchell's, and he was proud of that. never even looked. >> a true artist with his hands. that's great. so how do you -- what do you do? csn 2012, you guys are playing,

it's interesting. some artists, usually, it's younger artists, i'm 49, that's anybody younger than me -- >> you're a baby. >> i'm a baby. sometimes, they're too proud to play what happened 20 years ago. the radio would be so reluctant to play the songs that everybody wants to hear. >> see, we have a different opinion about that. >> so how do you get charged up to play the same songs that you're playing because elton john says it's even more special when somebody comes up and says, your song -- >> it's what it means to the audience. there is a reason why they buy a seat to watch us. all this stuff that they love, our audience know that they may hear a song that was written this morning. and we've always been that way. always. >> what's your favorite moment out of this dvd? >> i think when we go through

the entire show, 2 1/2 hours, come back and to, you know, however many encores that we thought we deserved or they deserved and then came back and did "sweet judy blue eyes" for the first time. >> oh, my, for the first time? >> yes. >> brian, you took good care of this. not any scratches. the crosby sills and nash now out. brian sullivan is up next. ♪

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scratched in the first five minutes. >> had one record, and it was andy ginn. >> did you run over it with your roller skates? >> something like that. >> let's go to ryan sullivan and apple's big mess. >> markets look like they could recover because the fed may come in and do action, more quantitative easing next month. apple, big miss. even though iphone sales grew 28%. that say lower growth rate. the reason i brought my ipad and keyboard is for a reason. mark, you've got the mac book there. why would i spend $1500 on that when i could spend $600 on this and listen to it on spotify. you heard graham nash about spotify and itunes. >> flash. there's no flash on that, dude. >> if i've got 64 gigs of memory and the cloud -- >> you're talking about adobe flash? >> yeah. >> that is true.

htmail 5 is coming out. >> when's that going to happen? >> i hope soon. once microsoft puts word on there, then i'm with you. those are key functions. >> for some. some. >> google docs, you can use the apple word processor. >> so how is the new boss going at apple? what are the ratings? >> not great this quarter, obviously. you don't want a lot of these quarters because a lot of retail investors, pension funds invested. >> more "morning joe" in just a moment. let's take a paint project from "that looks hard" to "that didn't take long".

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taking it with nsaid pain relievers, aspirin, or blood thinners may increase bleeding risk. severe liver problems, some fatal, were reported. signs include abdominal pain and yellowing skin or eyes. tell your doctor about all your medicines, including those for migraine and while on cymbalta, call right away if you have high fever, confusion and stiff muscles or serious allergic skin reactions like blisters, peeling rash, hives, or mouth sores to address possible life-threatening conditions. talk about your alcohol use, liver disease and before you reduce or stop cymbaa.lt dizziness or fainting may occur upon standing. ask your doctor about cymbalta. imagine you with less pain. cymbalta can help. go to cymbalta.com to learn about a free trial offer. go to cymbalta.com this is new york state. we built the first railway, the first trade route to the west, the greatest empires. then, some said, we lost our edge. well today, there's a new new york state. one that's working to attract businesses and create jobs. a place where innovation meets determination...

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there's a baby to kiss. >> stop it! >> he just punched a baby. >> is anyone asking how my hand feels after punching that iron jaw. >> welcome back to "morning joe." on friday the star of the new film "the campaign" will ferrell. >> you know, you're kind of a big deal. >> kind of a big deal. >> i find, mika, actually, that you punched a baby? >> i did by mistake. i did. do you remember that, at the department of agriculture. >> i did.

mika was complaining to will ferrell about her fist. what do you know know? >> this show is big enough with david axelrod, scott walker, tom ridge. >> and graham nash, letting us know off camera that jimi hendrix was the greatest risk player. >> the board game. >> you could never beat him. >> and jimi always won. >> i learned that i was born in the wrong decade. >> if it's too early, what time is it? "morning joe." right now on the other side of the break, "the daily rundown." we'll see you back here tomorrow. have a great day. ♪ [ male announcer ] for making cupcakes and deposits at the same time. for paying your friend back for lunch...from your tablet. for 26 paydays triggered with a single tap. for checking your line, then checking your portfolio.

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