>> got to change those batteries more regularly. when you hear that beeping, wake up, go down to the basement, get the biggest hammer you can find, walk up and just smash the living you know what out of that thing. but immediately get a new one. smoke detectors are important. one more. most of your viewers -- >> dr. skillet. >> i tune in daily to get my must dear glen report before the markets open. >> the excuse after the doping scandal that befell the women's soccer team after last year's women cup. they had to take deer musk to overcome a lightning strike. "morning joe" starts right now. >> seems to me this completes your olympic experience. you get to run the games and now you actually have a horse in the race. what's that going to be like? >> well, it's a big day. exciting experience for my wife and for the person she's worked

with, the trainer of the horse, who's riding the horse and obviously it's fun to be part of the olympics in any way you can be part of it. >> when is the event and for those of us that don't follow the sport is there rounds of competition, just one chance, what happens? >> i have to tell you, this is ann's sport. i'm not sure which day the sport goes on. she will get to see it. i will not be watching the event. i hope her horse does well. >> good morning. it's thursday, july 26th. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle, hello, mike. i'm not going to say anything. don't you worry. you look quite fine today. >> thank you. >> msnbc political analyst and former chairman of the republican national committee, michael steele is with us. and msnbc political analyst and visiting professor at nyu, former democratic congressman harold ford jr. and, of course, willie geist in london for the

olympics. >> how is your horse doing? >> he doesn't know the name of the horse, the event the horse is going in, and if there's actually a name of the event that has sort of a french flair to it he's not going to say it. >> dressage. >> could he have like distanced himself -- i'm surprised he did anything -- i'm going to shoot the horse afterwards because we need glue around the household. that's the only thing mitt romney did not do. >> if my wife were in the olympics. >> yes. >> i think i would show a little more enthusiasm. must have been some political calculation. i can inform mr. romney it's on august 2nd, called dressage and you ought to tune in. his wife is at the olympics. >> it's a beautiful sport. >> big points, i'll let her know. >> thank you. see what i did there. harold, how i did that. >> sometimes politicians are afraid to admit their human. >> a lot of people think maybe that's not very connecting. >> dressage. >> probably a million dollar horse and participating in

dressage in london. >> everybody on your street owns a million dollar horse. >> that's not true. >> all he had to do is indicate he knew when the event was. >> maybe he doesn't. he's a busy man. >> i have to say -- >> yikes. >> it's -- >> support the wife, you know. >> come on. >> let's just be -- >> at least know the name of the sport and what day it is. i'm a little skeptical. willie, you are right, we heard you at the orphanage on "way too early," these north koreans are crazy. a couple years ago they had the invisible cell phone the leader was shouting instructions and now what is deer musk and what does it have to do with north korean olympicens? . >> i'm glad you asked. last summer's women's world cup when five members of the north korean team were disqualified for doping. >> they were all struck by lightning, right? all struck by lightning at the same time?

that happens. >> we were -- the explanation from the north korean side was that they were taking a deer musk, some sort of a began due lar thing from a deer as treatment for a lightning strike that had taken apparently the entire team, according to north korean officials, suffered a lightning strike and to treat that they took this musk that was banned that they didn't know it was banned. i don't know how you treat a lightning strike. >> with deer musk, of course. i wish the boston red sox after they were all simultaneously struck by lightning at the end of august last year would have taken deer musk. >> all right. >> isn't this rich? harold ford? sandy weill a reformer now. >> he cares. >> he wants to break up the banks. >> that's funny. i don't understand all that he's stated but making those comments will not only attract some attention but to the issue. >> it's the top of the financial

times. that's rich, sandy's background, he's a reformer now? >> do you think his relationship with jamie dimon has anything to do with him announcing yesterday on cnbc they should break up the big banks? he's the architect. >> just a little bit. >> just a little. >> just a little. >> wow. let's just go there. we have him talking about this. play sandy weill. >> what we should probably do is go and split up investment banking from banking, have banks be deposit takers, have banks make commercial loans and real estate loans and have banks do something that's not going to risk the taxpayer dollars. >> whatever, sandy. we -- >> wait, wait, wait. >> you got a track record. we're not going to let you finish. >> mistakes were made. i want to hear that. >> did he say mistakes were made? yeah. throughout my entire career. throughout my entire career. >> so good. >> you want to understand wall

street go back and see -- >> you seem incredulous. >> it's unbelievable. michaekelly wrote a piece in "the atlantic" before he passed away about the say sandy weill did business. we'll talk about that later, i'm sure. but mika, let's talk about bush tax cuts. they're obama tax cuts because he extended them two years ago. >> in a symbolic vote the senate approved a democratic proposal that would extend tax cuts to the middle class but deny those cuts to individuals making over $250,000. the bill closely resembles the tax-cutting vision that president obama has outlined. the senate defeated a republican proposal that would have extended all current rates for a year. minority leader mitch mcconnell allowed a straight up or down vote on the tax plan as a way to make democrats put their cards on the table. the bill is unlikely to have any chance in the republican

controlled house. vice president joe biden returned to capitol hill in case he had to make the tie-breaking vote on the plan. he spoke in philadelphia earlier in the day, telling the crowd that mitt romney was out of touch with their values. >> this is not your father's republican party. they really, really believe that they have to cut you and millions of other middle-class americans in order to rebuild this economy. because they believe it is core, they believe that the way to rebuild the economy of this great nation, is from the top down. we know the way to grow this economy. coin in all phrases, the old-fashioned way. from the middle out. >> governor romney, who by the way is a good family man, a guy who means well, i think part of the problem is, i don't think he just gets you. i don't think he really understands. i mean this sincerely.

i don't think he understands what you're all about, what makes you tick, what makes you decide to go into this profession, that you couldn't pay enough to 90% of the population, including me, to do what you do every day. >> this is obama variety hour. we get him out on the campaign trail and just play bits for two hours. >> that's -- well. just a great way to sort of -- >> kick off a democratic show. >> listen, he's got very effective narratives and he's very good at it. >> he is good. >> come on. you have nothing to say because you know that he's connecting. >> love joe. >> and he's got a point. he's a good guy we like it. >> and running with it. >> democrat harold ford voted to raise taxes on small business owners making more than $250,000 yesterday. >> i've never believed this is the right approach. i've shared on this show and other places i think at a time

in which you face this kind of hardship and uncertainty, you've seen the last few days some of the largest and most important u.s. companies report sagging profits, those who believe that the europe -- situation in europe would not directly affect u.s. companies are beginning to see they were more wrong than right. i think giving as much as you can to big companies, medi medium-sized and small companies around any and everything government will or won't do is critical. extending tax cuts for all americans going to solve all our fiscal cliff issues? no. short of congress being able to do something meaningful, sustainable they should probably extend the cuts for everyone and look forward to the beginning of next spring or next year deal with sequestration, long-term fiscal responsibility, sustainability, but short of that, i don't know how this gives any more certainty, any more comfort. as you've talked on the show many times in the past, to businesses across the nation.

what concerns me, you see the front page of the newspapers, europe's crisis hits profits, rising food prices. american consumer and business leader need as much certainty as they can get. congress if they choose not to do the tax cuts at all will try to address the fiscal cliff issues in a more sustainable way. >> mitch mcconnell wanted democrats to -- >> put them on the record. >> going to help republicans in certain -- most people just sort of tune this out. >> i think most people tuned it out. folks are on the beach, vacationing, not focusing on this. the narrative about this congress has been written already. it is a do nothing congress. >> unbelievable. >> nothing is going to happen. >> unbelievable. >> between now and sequestration, we can get to the cliff, look at it, and people will feel the same way about this congress and so i think what mcconnell wanted to put them on the record in the senate, it dies in the house and to harold's point, the business communities of this country will

sit there and go you know what, we'll just keep whatever we've got in the bank in the bank. >> why would -- yeah. it will cut investment. mike, i mean, between the house, the republican house, and the democratic senate, and you've been following politics a long time, has there ever been a more worthless congress that's done less? >> no. >> i can't -- >> i can't -- >> can you in all of your years? >> no no. >> think of a time? who would want to be there. they do nothing. they're worthless. >> i don't want to take this show into a bridge abutment, okay, but listening to harold, and listening to michael, you join the two lines of thought together, the congress, the ineffective congress, the need for certainty in american business, i'll tell you who doesn't have certainty and they don't have certainty because of the congress and politics in this country, is the american people. there's no certainty in this country as to what's going to happen to my children. we are now living in the country

where because of the way this campaign is being waged on both sides where too many people no longer can afford to dream and that's a huge hole in the american fabric. a huge hole. >> when did this happen? i'm sorry, when did this happen? when did you wake up, mike, and look at the tv and see leaders -- >> well -- >> find that america was leader-less. >> on both sides of pennsylvania avenue. when did this -- >> i don't know. >> when you look at two candidates running for president doing nothing, and you look at a house and a senate doing nothing and our economy is in a 30-year decline, we've got debt crisis where are the roosevelts, the reagans, where are the lincolns? i mean where are the leaders? >> can you think of anyone -- i can think of a couple people but i would to stop and think about it, think of anyone who has achieved national prominence in

politics who would be willing to risk their re-election for a single issue, no matter what that issue is, whether it's health care, the tax code? >> no. >> banning ar-15s from being sold at gun shops? can you think of anyone who would risk their re-election to fight over one issue? i can't right now off the top of my head. >> candidates talking about assault weapons and one of them doesn't really even know the story we're talking about. >> well, mine, candidates -- candidates -- >> don't know anything. >> talk to their constituency, talk to their -- small, small interest groups. nobody -- you're right, mike. who takes chances? who dares -- >> i think a lot of it -- >> to offend your core? >> started in my estimation, in the presidential race of 2000 where we set up this polarization within the country, the red states, blue states, conservatives and democrats, and liberals, democrats,

republicans, and it sort of over that course of 10, 12 years, like the drip drip drip, just slowly oozed out. any confidence that leaders would have to stand up to make the point that you just made, to stand there and go, on this issue i stand firmly with and move on and willing to take that risk, they're not prepared to take that risk because of the polarization, the american people -- i really believe this -- the american people do have a chance in this election to smack these leaders upside the head, you saw a little bit in 2010, people may disagree or agree with the outcome, but when the people do focus the attention of these politicians. >> yeah. >> they do and can respond. but the question is, are we prepared to give the kind of signal to say to the kind of leadership we want. we've been a little accepting of this. we kind of created this monster. >> you know what, mika, it's like steve jobs. as far as leadership goes. steve jobs didn't sit around going, i wonder what people

want. what do people want? should i -- i'm going to go and i'm going to take a lot of like focus -- i'm going to focus groups and we're going to figure out what people want. no! >> i'm worried they might not want this about me so i'll cover it up. >> right. steve jobs had a vision and he said this is where we need to go. look at great leaders, they have a vision of where they want to take america and the world. i talked about roosevelt, he had it. i talked about reagan, he had it. they had big sweeping visions of what america needed. we have such -- >> and gut instinct to back it up. >> gut instinct. >> that's the key. >> we have a couple guys that are working on the most mundane engineering projects right now, i mean it's just like there's no soul to what -- there's no heart, no soul. it's just all -- it's just

technical. >> unless they're told by some focus group. >> right. >> to use the word soul. or to pretend they have it. >> oh, my god. >> it's true. >> we have people walking around, running for office, who are more afraid of tweets that attack them, people on twitter attacking them, than the reality. they market. they actually -- >> americans may not know this. they test words. >> right. >> and they test phrases. >> yeah. >> if people want to know, harold, why these presidential candidates speeches are so and none of us around this table can really say this is how barack obama's going to turn the economy around in four years or this is how mitt romney -- yeah, oh we've got a great plan. what's the plan? nobody has a plan. what's their plan? because it's just -- you know, let's poll test these words and see if they work with a swing group of voters in columbus, ohio. >> i think to your original question, i agree with you and a

lot of ways, those people in campaigns, you and i can recall and governors still can recall, there was a time when picking a right policy director, picking a person to help you understand foreign policy issues running for the senate or congress, person that understands defense insulation issues in north florida, you would hire, today the most important people in your campaign, your fund-raisers and opposition research directors. >> yeah. >> your campaign pivots in so many ways on the end of the quarter how much money you raised because that shows real strength, the front page of "new york times" one of the most venerable conpapers in the country, elizabeth warren had raised so much money. >> historical now. >> that's a wonderful thing. it would be great to know the issues as well for her and scott brown so -- >> because her issues are drawing -- >> i don't single her out for any reason other than the fact that it's one of the most newspapers in the country decided to highlight that. >> the front page of the "new york times" talks about how the

negative ads are shaping the campaign. it is all negative. nbc news/"wall street journal" poll, mike, you know, both candidates are being negative and the candidate from -- >> oh, my god it's going to be horrible. >> wait. >> and the candidate for hope and change, seen as twice as negative as romney. now that's going to change because romney's going to run all of his negative ads as well, starting in the fall, but this is just going to, again, what's meacham's phrase the narcissim of small differences? >> yep. >> that's what these guys are doing. >> i disagree. i think it's going to be a huge turnout. >> do you really? >> i think it's a quiet intensity out there and i think come the beginning of october, october 3rd, the first presidential debate, first time these guys stand side by side, you'll see a break in a lot of independent voters. >> where are they going to break? neither are deciding anybody. they're disappointing their own base. >> we are -- you can be right. i disagree. i think we just can't sense it.

people are sitting at home, sitting at work, sitting at church and wherever they may worship and have these same conversations, but it's just not manifesting itself like four years ago with the excitement of then senator obama. people are angry, they're frustrated and they're scared about their future. when people get scared they vote. >> mike, who -- where's the vehicle out there? michael steele who's the vehicle? usually in '32 you have reagan, ' -- i mean '32 you have roosevelt, '80 you have reagan. when you have these -- these massive turnouts there's somebody out there speaking -- >> maybe we're placing our expectations in the wrong place right now. you know, we're looking to put this on the individual candidate, on a mitt romney or a barack obama. and maybe it is to harold's point, something as -- that we saw, a tea party, occupy wall street, something within the

grassroots of america, that comes out and emerges this fall. i agree with harold. i think the turnout is going to be surprisingly higher than a lot of the professionals expect. >> do you really? >> i do. i've gone around the country, there is this seething, there is this opportunity to express themselves and, you know, folks, look, they don't trust the pollsters, they don't trust the politicians, so they're keeping a lot of stuff that's pent up inside of them. 201 elections, everyone is going around bheetsing their chest talking about all my gosh turnout in 2010 is going to be up or down or what are people thinking. people weren't out saying, this is how i feel and what i'm going to do. they don't trust the system enough to put that kind of faith in it. they're putting faith in themselves and say they can really make a difference. >> high turnout, low turnout, low turnout, what do you think? >> high turnout. >> do you really? >> seething. >> absolutely. coming up on "morning joe," who would be on a dream team of

fortune 500 executives. andy serwer takes us inside the first fantasy lineup ahead. plus, the host of pbs "need to know" jeff greenfield, "time" magazine's rick stengel with the reveal of the new issue, supporter of president obama, member of the center for american progress, christie hefner coming up, and actor and director of the movie "hit and run" dax shepard will join the set. up next the morning papers and top stories this morning's politico playbook. first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? >> mika, this is not a nice thursday forecast for anyone. especially if you have travel plans. it could be one of the worst weather delays for airports we've had so far this summer throughout areas of the northeast, ohio valley, and great lakes. already this morning, we're dealing with thunderstorms and rain moving down from new york state and central pennsylvania, that will try to make its way to d.c., philly and new york, but should weaken as it gets there. expect light rain for your morning commute. we're finally getting rain in

areas that haven't seen any this entire month. the state of missouri, the northern half, getting showers and thunderstorms that is welcome rainfall. let me explain what's going to happen. the first round of storms this morning then it gets very hot, very humid and then this afternoon, we're going to see one of the worst severe weather outbreaks of the year in the ohio valley, up through new england, we're thinking major power outages with widespread damaging wind and even a chance of a few tornadoes today, northern new jersey, southern new york and the hudson valley and including areas of massachusetts and connecticut. we don't get a lot of tornados in those areas. we have a chance today. your forecast looks like this. a round of showers this morning and then numerous thunderstorms late today into this evening. notice how hot it could get, up to 100 today in d.c. these thunderstorms are going to have a lot of heat and energy to feed off of. the rest of the country doesn't look too bad out there. all the concerns today are really ohio, pennsylvania, new york state, and into areas of southern new england later on this evening. i'll have updates throughout the day and on "morning joe."

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( laughter ) why's the new guy sending me emails from paris ? paris, france ? verizon's 4g lte devices are global-ready. plus, global data for just $25. only from verizon. at 26 past the hour. time to take a look at the morning papers. "usa today," poor economy is taking a toll on the american family. beyond the size of their paycheck, young families struggling to make ends meet are now more hesitant than ever to have children. dropping u.s. birth rates to their lowest levels in 25 years. fertility rates are not expected to recover for at least another two years, impacting the sales of thousands of products from diapers to cribs to minivans. >> "salt lake tribune" a greek

athlete heading to the olympics has been expelled after sending out a racist tweet. under 140 characters the 23-year-old triple jumper was able to upset the entire international committee with her remarking mocking african immigrants. the olympic committee has banned all athletes for using social media for anything not directly related to the games. >> "the new york times" after weeks of speculation, the identity of the woman often seen along leader kim jong-un has been revealed. media announced that the woman is, in fact, his wife. analyst interpret the public announcement as yet another sign kim john un is breaking from the policies of his father kim jong-il. >> from papers, the worst drought in 50 years is extending its reach to the supermarket. the u.s. department of agriculture is warning that food

prices are going to jump 3% to 4% over the next year. impacting the costs of milk, eggs, beef and poultry. the drought's already damaged 88% of the nation's corn crop and so far, the price of fruits and vegetables, though, are holding steady. >> time now for politicop. joining us now with the politico playbook the executive editor, jim vandehei. >> look, they've got a new set. >> he looks pretty. >> joe, you complain about our lighting, we order up a brand new set overnight. >> and for good reason. >> oh, my gosh. look at this. look at the pre -- >> intergalactic headquarters. >> like a flashlight right in the middle of his face and now boy -- >> he looks glossy. >> now we see a lot more of him. >> exactly. >> it's great. what's your lead story today? >> we got an interesting piece on health care and how president obama is selling it. he doesn't talk that much about it, which has been the gripe of democrats. but behind the scenes they've been doing a ton in targeting

african americans and hispanics who benefit from the law, about 32% of hispanics don't have health care coverage, 22% of african-americans compared to 14% of white americans. so what they've been doing is holding a lot of meetings privately with black journalists and black publishers, they've been doing this road show going into hispanic neighborhoods and african-american neighborhoods on the day of the health care ruling. valerie jarrett held a conference call on background for african-american reporters only and the emphasis is much different than when he's talking to broader audiences. they talk a lot about the subsidies and how you get coverage and the government will pay for it, whereas when the president is talking to broader audiences he tries to talk about how it lowers health care costs and gets kids covered until 26 and the other more popular provisions of it. it's an interesting insight into how you target your message and specific voting groups at this point in the election. >> michael steele, you're shaking your head.

>> i am. because i was wondering when this whole health care conversation began how come ts wasn't part of the conversation in 2009 and 2010, when you had many in the african-american communities, especially those on the hill, talking about the health care disparities that exist in the black community, what the administration was planning to do about it. the president's response and white house response was, my health care plan will benefit all people. we don't need to target specifics. now they want to target and have a specific conversation about how this health care plan is going to benefit the black and hispanic communities. give me a break. >> okay. okay. so -- >> one last story in politico we can get to. >> you go ahead. >> about joe biden. go ahead. >> go to it. >> it plays off this well. joe biden, what they're doing across the board is trying to go after every interest group that will back the democratic party in the election. they're trying to get them fired up. biden is doing that, going after unions, he's going after hispanic groups, talking to the

naacp because he connects with the base better than barack obama does. one of the shocking things in recent polls is that 6%, i think in the nbc poll, said they're undecided. only 6% of voters. so, basically both sides are looking at this saying we've got to get our base turned out. we can't get that worked up about undecides because there aren't that many of them. >> jim vandehei, thank you. >> look at that set. it is slick. >> go to willie geist in london. willie, what's ahead in sports? >> well, mika, coming up a little bit of a rough start to the first round of olympic soccer. the north korean women's team refused to take the field for more than an hour before the game. we'll tell you why ahead in sports live from london.

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welcome back to "morning joe." i'm willie geist in london for the 2012 summer games as we look at beautiful live pictures of the city. another great day, warm day, but they say the rain and fog, the

london weather in other words, is rolling in tomorrow for the opening ceremonies. let's hope that's wrong. the competition started yesterday women's soccer, team usa, got an immediate wake-up call from france playing in glass could, scotland, fell into a 2-0 hole out of the gate before reeling off four unanswered goals to beat france 4-2. they play colombia on saturday. the united states men's team by the way did not qualify for these olympics. the first day of play didn't pass without controversy. before north korea's match against colombia, olympic organizers mistakenly showed a picture of the south korean flag on the jumbo tron during player interintro ducks for the north korean team. the north korean team refused to take the field for nearly an hour, delaying the start of the match. the contentious relationship between north and south korea more tense lately following a long range rocket test. the countries technically have

been at war since 1950s. organizers released a statement apologizing for the error. this isn't the first problem for the north korean women's soccer team. as joe and i were talking about earlier, the north korean coach said after last year's world cup loss to the u.s., his players were sluggish because they were hit by lightning during training camp. later when it was revealed five of the players tested five for steroids on that north korean team the team blamed, quote, musk deer gland therapy used to treat the effects of the alleged lightning strike. let's head to more cliff notes for the london olympics. our series bringing you passing cocktail party knowledge of the 2012 olympic games. it's all you need to know. three quick ones today. those american women, favored again to win an unprecedented third consecutive gold medal in beach volleyball. misty may-treanor and kerry walsh jennings going for one last one.

treanor suffered an achille's injury and this will be her last dance in the olympics. walsh jennings had two babies since beijing. 5,000 tons of sand poured outside white hall at the century's old and shall we say a little stuffy horse guard parade but now hosting beach volleyball. someone might ask you, did you hear what kobe said about the original dream team of 1992? here's kobe bryant's quote. if you're asking me if we can beat them one game, hell yeah, we can beat them one game. one game we could get them. no question about it. kobe's comment drew a quick rebuke from most of the original dream teamers including his idol michael jordan who led the first team to gold in barcelona. the best group of basketball players ever assemble. who knows over ten games they might steal one or two, that new team. may ask yourself is there really an olympic event called the 50

kilometer walk? yes, there is and has been since 1904. it's that fast kind of race/walking, not like walking around the mall where you stand upright and pop the hips out as you go. 50 kilometers that's a long way. also a 20 kilometer walk for men and women. the big rule, one foot must be on the ground at all times. before you think i could be in the olympics too, all you have to do is walk, wait until you see these guys. you can't be in the olympics. when we come back who would you pick to be on your dream team of "fortune" 500 executives. inside fortune magazine's first fantasy lineup when we send it back to new york for "morning joe."

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jo this is david brooks' op-ed column in "the new york times." i want to get your reaction to this quote. what's relevant is who the guy is, speaking of governor romney. he has an amazing personal story. his family was really an exodus story going across the west, poverty, building an empire. he can't talk about it because it involves mormonism. he is personally a decent guy. for some reason he's not willing to talk about it. he's a hidden man. are you a hidden man? >> no. as a matter of fact, i'm happy to talk about my heritage. i speak actually quite regularly about the fact that my dad was born in mexico, with revolution in mexico, my dad then i think aged 5 or 6 came back to the u.s. with his family, that they went broke multiple times, his dad was a contractor. my dad didn't complete college but went on to be head of a car company and governor. it's a remarkable story.

i'm proud of my heritage. without question i'm a member of the church of jesus christ of latter day saints. i'm proud of that. some call that the mormon church. that's fine with me. i'll talk about my experiences in the church. there's no question they've helped shape my perspective. >> a republican official familiar with your campaign selection process, told the folks at politico, you are looking for a, quote, incredibly boring white guy for your vice presidential nominee. can you confirm or deny? >> you told me you were not available but -- >> touche, governor. >> touche. >> touche. >> take the glasses off. joining us now, managing editor of "fortune" magazine, andy serwer out with the latest executive dream team issue where the "fortune" editors pick out their dream lineup, top executives from the "fortune" 500 companies. first, the must-read opinion pages. i choose one from politico.

it's by joe czscarborough. >> it says this, mitt romney and barack obama seek to lead a country caught in an economic downfall that either candidate seems capable of reversing because both lack the vision of a roosevelt or a ronald reagan. the realities of that 30-year economic decline became inevitable as soon as those vanquished during world war ii began rebuilding their factories, china's entrance into a globalized market in 1978, eventually diluted america's power further, as did brazil and india's ascent. the balancing act of how to stimulate growth while simultaneously addressing long-term debt would be a vexing enough problem for great presidents. the roosevelts, lincoln and reagan would find themselves frustrated by the challenge. obama and romney simply appear incapable of rising to meet the challenges of this historic moment. >> andy, we're caught in the

middle -- >> i'm sorry. >> we're caught in the middle of the second on understood vice 0-year decline on one side, massive debt on the other, either one is a vexing challenge that would require great president to turn things around. neither one of these candidates are addressing adequately either one of these challenges. and the squeeze just continues. >> you're talking about leadership early and i think that's the whole key. those two guys and the people in congress, i ran into george mitchell, senator george mitchell the other day, he was telling me he would have dinner with bob dole, his counterpart from across the aisles, every week. they would sit down, get together, talk about how to pass legislation, how to get things done, and that's the real problem i think is the inability of campaigns, of politicians on either side, to compromise. and i think, you know, president obama says well, the republicans

are incapable of compromising, but really, that's what a president has to do. the president has to do. >> that's what bill clinton did. >> what would lbj have done. you don't talk about lbj and you talk about great presidents but there was a guy who could reach across the aisle. >> we talk about lbj, knowing how washington runs and that's absolutely critical. >> he could get things done. >> look at bill clinton, he had republicans that just didn't like him, he figured out a way to make it work. look at ronald reagan, tip o'neill, tip o'neill to deal with. they got together and they had a rule at 6:00 politics ended and they became friends. >> ted kennedy/orrin hatch. >> ted kennedy/orrin hatch. >> in one second. i want to ask you, what does sandy weill think breaking up the big banks? >> he's not on the dream team. >> is he mad at jamie dimon for some reason? >> that goes way back. his daughter was there and jamie

went and got jpmorgan and made it into a colossus and then sandy didn't set up his success well to chuck prince. sandy was the architect of this bank and now he's talking about breaking them all up. he was the one that put it altogether. hypocritical? right. >> yes, it is. >> maybe. >> mistakes were made. >> yes, they were there. >> mistakes were made. so fortune magazine's executive dream team, what are we looking at here? >> a little fun -- >> little bit. >> little bit here in the summertime. it does, again, speak to leadership and, you know, i want to talk about some of the top people. let's start at the very top with the ceo, our ceo pick, which is someone who's overlooked which is jeff bezos of amazon, overshadowed by steve jobs, you were talking about steve jobs and what a great innovator he was. amazon, revolutioned shopping, greatest on-line store of all, stock went public at $1.50

in '97, $215 now. >> why do we overlook this guy is this. >> overshadowed by steve jobs, number one. and number two and number three. so when you think about great tech executives you would always say steve jobs and never him. >> who else? >> the number two guy, coo we picked don thompson who is the number two guy of mcdonald's. he really was the architect of the success of this company over the past five or ten years. it's actually unfair to call him a coo because he became a ceo on july 1st. >> terrific guy. >> yeah. >> he's guys that created the mccafes, added $100,000 of sales annually to each store, 68 million customers a day. >> mcdonald's -- >> because of the low calories he's the architect behind all of that. >> mcdonald's -- >> big on that. >> just saying -- >> you guys. hold on. >> low calorie menu. >> seriously, let me tell you, seriously, it was -- ikrispy kr

time everybody was watching carbs and it was a flop. about that same time, mcdonald's was looking long in the tooth and pass mcdonald's and go that's going to be a thing of the past in five years. in my hometown of pensacola, they tore down a lot of the mblgds's, made them look sleeker, started advertising they had low diet meals. >> i'm going to tell you why these people are so smart -- >> and the mccafe. >> including your friend. >> right. >> and the big mac. tastes better than ever. >> a lawsuit. >> super sized. >> years down the road. and that will strategically prevent it. >> why do you hate when loving could be easier. >> they're so dumb. i mean, seriously -- >> dumb? >> you walk into a mcdonald's -- >> and you order a salad. >> and you don't. because you smell the fries. >> i've ordered salads at mcdonald's. >> yogurt parfaits. >> now mcdonald's can say they've done that. and that will prevent a lot of

financial damage down the road because this ultimately will end up in the court because we have no self-discipline and we have a real problem with addiction issues. >> we love this guy at mcdonald's. >> the last guy i want to talk about is a nonexecutive chairman, sort of the consig larry figure, bill campbell, coach campbell, the coach of the football team at columbia way back when, football player there, and then the ceo. he is the horse whisperer of silicon valley. he had steve jobs' ear, other guys at google and he's this grounded salt of the earth guy and i've had beers with him in palo alto he just dispenses the old pro. >> my buddy, my friend. >> dispenses wisdom in a way that's old school and you see these young entrepreneurs sky high and in the stars and he just says, listen, punk, essentially, you got to stick to, you know, what you know, be a person, don't let this stuff

get to your head. so i love the guy. >> your kind of guy no he is a great guy. >> is he? >> he is a salt of the earth guy. >> you're saying i'm salt of the earth or he likes big macs? >> all of the above. >> i want to meet this guy. >> coach campbell. >> great? >> great guy. >> all right. >> you look sharp today. >> thank you, wow. that's high praise coming from -- >> i saw andy last night. >> you guys at the -- >> we were at a new york city premier of "the campaign" with will ferrell and zach galifianakis, and the movie was funny at points. >> will ferrell, everybody loves will ferrell. >> the scary thing about that movie, making fun of the campaigns and these guys would say stupid things, right, but you've heard politicians say these kinds of things over and over, they asked them a question how would you create jobs, i'm pointing at you harold, don't mean to. >> i do not resemble these people. >> he said absolutely nothing. >> in america there's freedom and i believe in democracy and bringing jobs to north carolina and people would just stand up

and applaud. >> unbelievable. >> oh, lord. >> it was amusing. >> sounds close to reality. check out "fortune" magazine's executive dream team. stay with us, andy. by the way, coming up the congressional budget office is out with its first analysis of the health care law since the supreme court ruling. economists dana goldman joins us ahead with what the numbers show. more "morning joe" when we come back. mid grade dark roast forest fresh full tank brain freeze cake donettes rolling hot dogs bag of ice anti-freeze wash and dry diesel self-serve fix a flat jumper cables 5% cashback signup for 5% cashback at gas stations through september. it pays to discover.

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coming up next the host of pbs's "need to know" jeff greenfield is here. why the country can't afford a nailbiter election this fall. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪ these are the days [ male announcer ] 6 years old. then 7. going on 11. in the blink of an eye, they're all grown up. marie callender's homemade tastes are another great reason to sit down and savor every last moment. ♪ because time flies... right before your eyes. marie callender's. it's time to savor.

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this is not your father's republican party. they really, really believe that they have to cut you and

millions of other middle-class americans in order to rebuild this economy. they believe at its core, they believe the way to rebuild the economy of this great nation is from the top down. we know -- >> didn't we run this last hour? >> it's a joe biden variety hour. >> it's the old phrase the old fashioned way. >> are we doing this for you, mika. >> we're doing this for the middle class, joe. >> yeah. >> at least somebody needs to speak for them. >> today's republican party we need to cut you. >> cut you like that kind of thing. going to cut you. >> getting a little street up -- >> come on. >> cut you. today's democratic party thinks small business owners make $250,000, taxes raised in the middle of one of the worse recessions of the economy. michael steele and andy serwer are still with us. joining us on set political analyst and host of pbs "need to know" jeff greenfield.

very good to see you. >> likewise. >> next time e-mail me. seriously. you get nowhere. >> send me direct messages on twitter. >> what are you thinking? >> about an hour ago we were asking, we were talking about the lack of leadership, all the big crises that are facing us, both of these candidates seem soulless, paint by number types. you work for a guy in 1968, that gave -- i remember you telling me, gave the greatest political speech of his life and as a speechwriter you hated every second of it because he did it off the top of his head. i'm joking. bobbie kennedy, april 4th, 1968, in indianapolis. i -- there are not -- there aren't a lot of bobbie kennedy's, obviously, but where are leaders like that take chances today? where are they? >> the first thing that you said, retrospect, sometimes find leaders where at the time people didn't see them. people didn't realize when they started out fdr was going to be

transformative leader. he was seen as a lightweight. i think that the kind of events where a candidate like robert kennedy would go to a college campus in 1968 and tell them he was against student draft deferments, unfair to poor folks who didn't get to college, and then go and met a bunch of soon-to-be wealthy medical students and tell them you're going to help pay for the health care i think we need, that kind of willingness to engage your own base, is something that i think is really, really lacking. of all the things that i've watched from mitt romney, i cannot recall a single moment where he turned to the base republican party and said, you know, on this one i'm not with you. i disagree. >> right. >> and i think that's -- my own feeling is that the political world, you know if you're old or always think that the old days were better. tomatoes were better, ocean is better. but i do think there's been such fear in the political world of political operatives of the 24 hour media of how a comment

might be deliberately misinterpreted they're afraid to say what they mean. i think they're afflicted by performance anxiety and whether it's the tennis court or more intimate moments, performance anxiety really is an inhibiting factor. >> okay. >> michael steele, do you agree. >>? i agree. >> they're afraid basically to open their mouth. >> i think they are. the screaming from the rafters at the least -- at most insignificant thing that they say chills the entire conversation and debate they could have to be honest with folks in their community and say straight up this is what it's going to take to do this. when you talk about something as simple as simpson-bowles, you know, something that, you know, has been complicated, everybody says they agree with and wants to do. >> why won't it happen? >> no one including the president steps up and goes this is it, this is the path forward, let's do it. that kind of leadership is missing. >> a different one -- >> or even say here's my -- >> here's my plan and i'm going

to fight for it and i'm going to keep fighting for it until you give me your plan and we meet somewhere in the middle and compromise and we're going to figure out how to pay down $4 trillion of the debt. >> but on that point, and this is where it gets a little bit even murkier. when you have that moment and i would say paul ryan, whether you like his budget or dislike his budget, puts it on paper and saps this what is we're going to do, what's the first thing that happens to it. >> it gets killed. he gets eviscerated before he has a chance to have the conversation to explain what he wants to do with this budget. that's the chilling effect. >> obviously it's the system or it's our times to be more precise, not the people. in other words, there's -- there are great people throughout, they're just being stifled by the environment where they feel like they can't -- >> well -- >> you can speak out -- >> let's let them do that. >> why don't they? >> they're too scared. >> that's their problem. >> the governor from colorado the other day a maverick, business person, he's different, he speaks his mind, but already

you're starting to see a situation where he's a little bit more reluctant to speak his mind because he's on a national platform now. so, you know, i don't know. i mean someone has to have the fortitude. what about christie, someone who speaks his mind. >> chris christie speaks his mind and he's rewarded in blue state by voters. chris christie had a poll out -- a new poll out yesterday, i think the guy is like plus 20. >> i've already got his slogan for 2016. >> what is it? >> christie for president. hey, numbnuts i'm talking to you. >> that works. it's pretty early, 7:06. >> okay. >> close encounters of the worst kind by jeff greenfield. why the country doesn't need a nailbiter in 2012. judging by the rhetoric coming from the campaigns this election pits a party that will dismantle the social safety net and puts the rights of women, gays and

frik african-americans on the eng dangerered species list towards a party that will drag the closer toward the socialist inspired spending and regulation binge that will cripple the free enterprise system. is there anything that partisans of every stripe can root for? >> they have to root for a decisive outcome the thing i am most concerned about is looking down the road and looking at these numbers and everyone tells me this is going to be a nailbiter is half a dozen floridas, half a dozen states which could swing the election, the election comes down to a tiny handful of votes because unlike even in 2000 when the country was a hotbed of rest, assumed peace and prosperity was going to govern no matter what was elected, contested election, right now this country in my view, so pessimistic, so uncertain about its future and so lacking in the belief that the other side has any good

faith at all, if we have half a dozen recounts we're not sure who the president is, i think that would be toxic. >> and i mean gosh, let's look at -- let's say that there aren't recounts and let's say either mitt romney or barack obama wins by a percentage point. by a percentage point. and you've got a republican house and a democratic senate or democratic house and republican senate, i mean, i'll ask you the question i asked mike barnicle, have you in all of your years covering politics following politics ever seen a congress as worthless as this one? with a republican house and democratic senate? >> i think two veteran congress watchers wrote a book, thomas and [ inaudible ] who said basically it's worse than you think it is. >> yeah. >> i think -- >> well i would say also you said people are hesitant about their future. i would say it's worse than you think it is. people know their kids aren't going to do as well and i think that the data is proving it. they feel it. >> that is the terrain. >> they know it. >> which makes a really contested election.

we had very close elections where presidents have won or lost by just, you know, truman, kennedy, nixon in '68, carter and god knows 2000, but i think the country at that point was willing to say okay, sort this out, let's figure out the wins, we'll be okay. i think it's less of that. >> the uncertainty is unbelievable. talking about that from a business owner's perspective, the ceo's perspective, from every person who's trying to earn a living. think about obama care. the republicans have said that if elected, romney if elected they'll veto and rescind it. it's the biggest piece of legislation since world war ii, affecting the biggest part of the economy, in the world, and we're uncertain about it. like it or hate it, i'm not saying i like it or hate it, it's uncertain. health care is uncertain. >> taxes. >> uncertain. >> regulation, uncertain. you can go down the list, uncertain, and it used to be, it used to be that business owners

and ceos, and workers could say you know what, i know things are probably going to be split in washington, maybe that reagan guy is going to win and have to deal with tip o'neill, but they're going to work it out. because that's what happens -- >> get something done. >> that's what happens in america. i worked it out with democrats and jfk worked with republicans and reagan worked with o'neill and clinton worked with gingrich. they don't believe that anymore. >> yeah. >> they don't believe that. for good reason. because they don't work it out anymore. >> i think this is one case where it's not being nostalgic, you were there, to say it just -- the process was different, the middle ground was wider. you know, i find it striking back in '76, ford got a quarter of liberals and i mean carter got a quarter of conservative, ford a quarter of liberal voters and you know how it crossed in the congress. >> right. >> you have the most

conservative democrat in congress votes more liberal than the most liberal republican. what one writer called the great sorting out. what you've got is ideology defined almost perfectly by party. >> right. >> that's a recipe for not cooperation. >> we always talk, michael steele, about the 1990s, and mika and i will be talking to groups, go to colleges and talk about the '90s. >> right. >> and i'll always -- i'll joke, tell jokes about how i couldn't stand bill clinton and one of his staff members, i feel bad about, hating this guy and one of his staff members said don't feel bad, congressman, he hates you too. we laugh and joke but then i talk about how yet a republican congress that hated a democratic president, democratic president hated the republican congress, and together we balanced the budget for the first time in a generation four years in a row for the first time since the '20s, passed welfare reform, 20 million new jobs, tax cuts, regulatory reform. you can go on and on. and then somebody will bring up

impeachment. i said you made my point. we went through and an em peachment crisis and john cakas talking to bowles on republican issues. republicans to democrats. we still worked together even in the midst of a constitutional crisis because people put their country ahead of themselves. >> that's it. i was going to say, when you talk about impeachment, even the first health care debate in 1992/1993, hillary care, even as divisive and unsettling as that may have been, there was still business of the country getting done. there were other things that were, you know, part of the agenda that need to get achieved. it was about something that wutwas bigger than your congressional seat, something bigger than you know the politics of the moment. that's the piece i think that's missing right now. where we've got into the muck and mire of me. this is about my re-election,

about what i say on twitter or what they say about me on twitter and not about the greater conversation that we need to have, which, you know, this is what the american people want. >> speaking of the greater american conversation, underlines a point jeff made before, you know, during the health care debate of '93 and '94, guess what? it wasn't just this is a president's plan and we're going to fight it. you had chaffy a liberal republican saying this is my plan, conservative plans, who's the moderate from tennessee? >> cooper. >> you had cooper's plan, sort of a more moderate democratic plan and it was -- it was a fascinating debate and there was an opportunity to debate the great issues of the day. it's just not that way. >> my question, how is it going to change? what is it going to take? is it going to be individual? is it going to be some sort of watershed moment where people say enough? i don't see it. and i'm not sure what will

happen. maybe -- >> no, i think -- i think the last time you had a real chance at something, watershed moment, 9/11. where people said okay, you know, reagan used to say if we were ever invaded by mars the whole earth would unite. 9/11 was tragically close to something like that as you can imagine. >> they were told to go shopping. >> there's that. >> exactly. and you had karl rove saying in 20 2000 we can go to the country on midterms in national security but for whatever, if that wasn't going to shock people to say -- >> galvanize people forward. >> look what happened. we're under attack. the country is under attack. so i'm a pessimist about this short term. maybe mid term. i don't see -- the other thing we have to be put on the table honestly, you don't get punished politically by being obstructive. the republicans who said, you know, no to obama across the line, a lot of democrats came in

2010 saying great they're the party of no. the republican s won 60 somethig seats in the house. had a tremendous midterm victory and back in 2006, the democrats had a big victory saying, we're not bush. i don't see where -- i kind of like reagan's old days. they don't see the light maybe they'll feel the heat. there's no heat on a political process. in fact, it rewards digging in. >> it rewards bad behavior. >> i think it does, mika. i think it does. i think it's going to -- there have going to have to be leaders willing to step forward and until those leaders step forward and decide to get involved in just a terrible process, i think some of our best and brightest are looking right now at the system and say, do i want to get into public service or do i want to protect my family? it's time and time again, where

people say, i'm going to get into politics or i want to get into politics and then they think about it and go, i can't do that to my family. >> right. >> i can't do that to my kids. >> good people. >> who would have been -- >> spouses. >> maybe better than what we've got. by the way, you should see joe and bill clinton now. >> oh, stop. >> oh, god. >> love birds. >> oh quit. >> seriously, worse than i've ever seen. love birds. that's a good way of putting it. >> you know -- >> slobber all over each other. >> they went to wars together and fought on different sides. >> okay. >> a lot of -- a lot of things got done in the 1990s. >> get out the soap suds. >> i love you. >> i love you too. >> it's ridiculous. >> two southern -- >> i have to walk away because i get sick to my stomach. i throw up in my mouth. >> stop. >> thank you for sharing, mika. >> you're welcome stew lovely. >> thank you for sharing. >> andy, thank you for being with us.

i love your dream team. >> thank you i know you do. >> sandy weill is on the list, but okay. jeff greenfield stay with us. what the congressional budget office is saying now about the president's health care law now that the supreme court has made its ruling, economists dana goldman joins us. when we come back, exclusive first look at the new cover of "time" magazine. rick stengel. >> look at stengel. look how good he looks. middle of july. >> look at him. he kind of knows it too. >> keep it on him. >> but first, here's -- >> wait hold on. let's stay on for a second. >> oh, lord. >> hold that pose. >> he looks good. >> now let's go to -- >> to bill karins with a check of the forecast. hey, so bill, is it going to be bad all weekend across the northeast? what's going on? >> today's by far the worst, joe. the thunderstorms possible tornadoes and then hit and miss storms into the weekend. but today's the big show, one of the worst weather days as far as thunderstorms goes from ohio to

pennsylvania, of the entire summer season. we only get these days onc a while like this. showers this morning but that's not the big show. later this afternoon, this area of red from columbus to cincinnati all the way through pittsburgh, central pennsylvania, southern portions of new york, new york city up to albany and areas of western connecticut and massachusetts, that's the risk for strong tornadoes and also a lot of wind damage out there. so the forecast for today, showers this morning, then it gets hot, it gets humid. worst of the storms will be from about 4:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. this evening. so that's the kind of the crunch time. i think we could have really thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people without power in this region tomorrow morning. we'll watch it for you here. we'll have more updates throughout the morning. "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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i, like most americans, believe that the second amendment guarantees an individual the right to bear arms. i think we recognize the traditions of gun ownership that passed on from generation to generation. that hunting and shooting are part of a cherished national heritage. but i also believe in a lot of gun owners would agree that ak-47 belong in the hands of soldiers not criminals. on the battlefield of war not on the streets of our cities. i believe the majority of gun owners would agree we should do everything possible to prevent criminals and fugitives from purchasing weapons, that we should check someone's criminal record before they could check out a gun seller. that a mentally unbalanced individual should not be able to get his hands on a gun so eas y easily.

these steps shouldn't be controversial, they should be common sense. >> on things however like aurora, colorado, do you see why americans get frustrated at polit politics? they can see and hear your words from earlier in your career, people are hurting out there, perhaps they want to start a national conversation about whether ar-15 belongs in the hands of a citizen, whether a citizen should be able to buy 6,000 rounds off the internet, you see the argument? >> well, this person shouldn't have had any kind of weapons and bombs and other devices and it was illegal for him to have many of those things already, but he had them. so we can sometimes hope that just changing the law will make all bad things go away. it won't. changing the heart of the american people may well be what's essential to improve the lives of the american people. >> okay. joining us now, "time" magazine managing editor rick stengel here to reveal the latest issue of "time" magazine. good to have you on board this

morning. >> it's a fantastic cover story by joe klein called "how guns won" and basically how the republican party and the democratic party have advocating their responsibility ever since the assault weapon ban in 1994 on doing anything reasonable or common sensecle about gun regulation and joe, traces it back to that vote and back to the fact that bill clinton attributed his losses in that midterm election to the assault weapons ban that was part of the crime bill which also added 100,000 cops on the street and that the democrats and republicans learned the lessons of that and as a result you have -- you let president obama, until last night, had not talked about any kind of gun restrictions even though when he campaigned last time he talked about reinvoking the assault weapons ban. mitt romney signed a bill when he was governor of massachusetts which banned assault weapons and then now, nobody talks about it.

nobody talks about it in the wake of such a grizzly and horrible shooting in aurora and that's a problem in our politics. i'm glad that the president brought it up last night. >> joe talk about why this is such a powerfully symbolic issue for so many americans? >> he does. i mean -- >> like say nra, nra, nra. it's -- obviously you've got -- it's like grover norquist attacking grover norquist or say aarp or whatever, a reason these groups have power and they have power because they've got millions and millions of voters that support them. >> when we looked at how much money -- this is kind of an amazing statistic, how much money the nrr has spent over 20 years supporting candidates in races, it's a little over $20 million. it's a tiny amount by our standards. i mean -- >> which proves -- >> laugh at that amount. >> which proves my point even more. it's the issue, not the group.

the question at the heart of the question is, why is this issue so powerfully symbolic to millions of americans who would never even pick up a gun themselves? >> because i -- because people look at it as a corollary for freedom. if you're trying to restrict guns you're trying to restrict my freedom. we restrict all kinds of things in the interest of public safety and security. >> health. >> we have speed limits on the roads. but people look at it in the symbolic way. it is part of the dna of americans to -- there was a reason the second amendment was created. >> right. >> guns. >> the king is not going to tell me what i keep in my house. >> right. >> and my guns. >> there's a difference between that and some common sensecle regulation. >> this is something, jeff, you speak to europeans about, so quizzical. again, what always struck me was, when i was on the campaign trail, americans who would never own guns, ever owned guns, who would run away from the sight of

a gun, but say i don't want the federal government telling me what i can and can't have in my house. it's in our dna. >> when i left new york city to go to the university of wisconsin some years ago, you know, we don't hunt on the upper west side of manhattan. we hunt for parking places. but in wisconsin, you met -- i met all kinds of people my age for whom the rite of passage, their dad would take them out hunting -- was an enormous bonding mechanism and you add that to the issue about freedom, and you get a powerful constituency. however, the other part about this is the intensity factor. 'veen today, many more americans who would favor a ban on assault weapons than favor not a ban. they don't vote than issue. in addition to '94 joe klein mentions the 2000 election people will look at a state like tennessee and arkansas and parts of ohio and pennsylvania and say guns cost al gore the presidency. and i think that instilled what

i talked about earlier. >> that's part of -- joe talks about that -- the mythology about democrats being against the assault weapon ban why that's dangerous. bill clinton thinks it cost gore the election in tennessee. >> i mean -- >> when gore and bradley ran, they ran as the two most anti-gun democrats in history. >> that's right. >> yeah. >> tennessee, west virginia, and mika, chip talked about these nailbiter elections. you will have candidates looking and say, okay, if i stake out a position, whether it's this issue or another issue, i lose tennessee and west virginia and if i lose those two states i'm not president. suddenly, that gets you to pivot. >> so mike barnicle, when you listen to this conversation and what joe said, what do you think of when you think of the "time" magazine cover? because i was just looking at an article about a 4-year-old that was shot in the head in new york city. >> what i think of is something that i think i've maintained some consistency in my thinking

on this, lack of courage. courage on the part of elected official. the presidency as an educational tool, keep your hunting rifle in wisconsin, keep your hand gun, we're not coming from it. we're not coming for it. you have a right to it. let me tell you about an ar-15. tell the country about an ar-15, derivative of a weapon used by the navy s.e.a.l.s, i don't want to give anything away perhaps it was used to kill osama bin laden, lightweight water, waterproof, walk through water, take it out, clip off 100 rounds in that amount of time. not meant for the hands of a 23-year-old in a movie theater. meant for the 23-year-old hands in afghanistan, yes. shouldn't be available. educational, presidency is educational. >> have you ever been to an nra meeting? >> yeah. >> the other part about this,

they -- they will -- they have maintained don't believe a barack obama when he says he's not coming for your hunting rifle. as soon as he's re-elected they will tell their members have told their members he will be out to confiscate your guns. that's the message. this is not paraphrase. it's practically word for word what they say. >> you have to figure out how many members of the nra belong to the nra for the discounts that they get from belonging to the nraa huge percentage of them. not because they're so wedded to this thought that, you know -- >> how many members of the nra? they've increased their numbers by quite a lot, but there's still only about 4 million members of the nra. we asked ray laperriere to write for this issue a response to joe's piece and he very graciously turned us down. but wanted to have that point of view represented. >> again, you bring up, they don't have tons of members, they don't spend lots of money, but on this issue they control the agenda. look at the poll that we put up

a minute ago about gun control. >> right. >> pew research, gun control issue, more important to protect the right to own guns, 49% of americans or control gun ownership, 45% of americans. >> over the past 20 years, i mean it's -- i write about this myself, i mean there's statistics people don't realize over the past 20 years support for gun ownership has increased. >> and why is that? >> it's an interesting question. i don't know why that's the case. at the same time, you have deaths from guns decreasing over a 30-year period. we have violent deaths from guns decreasing and violent ownership is decreasing and support for gun increasing at the same time. if you can figure the reason out you have a ph.d. in social science. >> you hit it. it is a highly symbolic issue. >> yeah. >> it is a symbolic issue that, again, even for americans that don't own guns, we were talking

beforehand before you came on, this is a great picture, joe, tell us what we're looking at right here. >> that's the place on the penn state campus where the statute of joe paterno was removed and the kind of silhouettes of the -- of where the football players were removed as well. >> yeah. >> we were talking about the hypocrisy of the press conference. >> yeah. >> you guys launched into that. >> we were laughing about it. >> the thing to take from the sandusky thing when the ncaa chairman says we will never let football dominate education. i'm looking at that and thinking taxi back to planet earth. what was he talking about. that is what the ncaa is. at the same time they announce this, they've created this new playoff thing so colleges involved can get more millions of dollars. i'm sorry, that's what big-time college sports has become. the other thing, quickly, we are

all enablers, tv networks, fans, colleges, press, all of us because we celebrate and love it. >> you know, mike, it's the truth, i was wondering when he said that, why the media that was -- the press didn't break out laughing. >> yeah. >> it's a total joke. >> yeah. if you listen to the first 45 seconds of the statement that the president of the ncaa made, i mean you want to -- you want one of two things, laugh hysterically or turn it off because of the hypocrisy involved that we are here only because we so valued the education of these young student athletes are receiving and don't want to inflict football upon them. >> please. >> we stipulate it's hypocritical and we're enablers. what do you do about that? >> i don't think you do anything about it. you look at it and go, this is part of the limits of human beings. we're a bunch of hypocrites. >> pay them. >> i mean these 18, 19,

20-year-old kids, i speak from a university that has been a football factory and reinvented itself as a football fact fri, millions and millions of dollars for tv executives, for colleges, for football coaches, and these kids get in trouble for pawning their own shirts. >> right. >> sell autographs has been writing about this, a branch in the atlantic -- >> which is remarkable. >> pay the kids something. >> pay the kids something. >> that might actually keep them in college a little bit longer. they probably actually would end up getting more -- getting degrees if they were paid rather than not. >> i think that's the thing. >> maybe. >> i think that's the key. i think you've got to somehow force universities to graduate 90% of their players and if they don't they get sanctioned. it's that simple. i have seen through the years so

many great places -- this doesn't just happen at the university of alabama, but everywhere, i follow alabama, love alabama, so many great players who afreshmen, sophomor year will be remarkable and gods not only on college campuses but by 65-year-old steele executives but then break their legs and work at the piggly wiggly and they're never heard from again. >> right. >> you sit there years later thinking about what et that guy doing now. he was just -- >> workman's compensation. >> health care. >> something. >> but if they don't graduate 90% of their players, they get sanctioned -- >> exactly to his credit, arne duncan has been pushing for real pressure on these colleges, say you've got to graduate at least half of the people had your program or you will be sanctioned. but that's -- >> that's a start, i know. i'm saying how sad that the secretary of education can only

start at 50%. >> well. >> by the way that's -- >> thank you, arne duncan, i'm serious, for at least starting this. we should all be ashamed. >> that's not far from the actual graduation rate of young people who start in four-year colleges. yeah. i think it's 60%. >> the new cover of "time" how guns won, rick stengel, thank you so much. good to see you. >> jeff greenfield, thank you as well. >> thank you. >> pleasure. >> coming up, karl rove's reinvention, will president bush's former top strategist be the man to help put mitt romney in the white house. bloomberg's business week josh tyrangiel and chris christie hefner, from bush's brain to romney's super pac wallet. ♪

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40 past the hour. a development involving the suicide bombing in bull gare ya that targeted a bus full of israeli tourists. "the hill" reports that chairman of the house intelligence committee, republican congressman mike rogers of michigan, says he believes iran

was behind the attack that left five israelis dead. rogers who as chair has access to intelligence said, quote, i believe there were certainly elements of hezbollah involved and i believe it was under the direction of their masters in iran. he becomes the highest-ranking u.s. official to blame iran, something israel has maintained since the day of the attack. iran has denied responsibility. neither the white house or officials in bulgaria have assigned blame, only to say the attacker was part of a sophisticated group of conspirators. our next guest says we need to start thinking of health care as an investment, not an expense. economist dr. dana goldman joins us next on "morning joe."

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we're live on tv, so we'll stop telling those stories now. the congressional budget office, mika stop -- >> i want to meet them. >> the congressional budget office is out with their score of the president's health care law. mika's going to tell you about it now. >> yeah. now that supreme court has made its ruling. joining us from washington -- >> that's an incredible story, harold told us. >> i would like to meet those people. >> joining us from washington, economist and professor of medicine and public policy at the university of southern california, dana goldman, very good to have you on the show this morning. tell us what you found and how this ultimately turns out to be an investment for the american people. >> talk about the cbo report. >> i want to hear about the cbo report. >> don't go to the leading question yet. what did the cbo find out about this health care law? >> the health care law as you know is remarkably expensive, even in the context of

washington, d.c., and i think the fundamental question for us, is whether the country can afford it. when you think about that -- >> how expensive? i'm sorry. just trying to get the facts out. what did the cbo tell us? how expensive is it? >> well, you know, i actually don't have the numbers in front of me, so i wouldn't want to speculate right now on the actual costs. >> so let's see. mika, do we have a full screen on this? >> i'm hoping. okay. so we're getting that right now. >> i'm sorry. go ahead, dana. >> i guess -- i think regardless of the cost, the real question is not what is the growth in health care spending. as you know, it's been going up and exceeding the growth of gdp for many, many years. and health care spending is now 20% of the economy. and we view it as an expense, but the fundamental point as you were talking earlier about education, for example, when we think about education, we think about it as an investment and it's an investment in building

human capital so that we can go out and be productive members of society. and health care is the same way. health care spending are investments and the investments are in health and i think the point and where we have failed in reform is that we shouldn't be reimbursing for health care inputs, things like getting treated. we should be reimbursing for health and when you think about it that way, it leads to a lot of different policies than what we have now. >> all right. you recently said in "the new york times" this, if we reimbursed on the basis of preventing disease rather than treating it, the world would be different. with obesity, for example, you could imagine a much more concerted effort not only for diet and exercise, but also bio medicine a pill to prevent obesity would be worth literally trillions of dollars. >> mika ka, you're writing about this right now. you look at the cost of obesity. >> that's everything that pertains to our health care crisis, literally everything.

>> obesity touches -- we always think about heart, but my gosh, you can't find a cancer where the risk doesn't increase if you're obese. >> diabetes. >> diabetes. >> everything. >> it is -- dana, i'm not sure a pill is really the solution because we have to look at our food system ultimately. >> but you're -- >> we spend $93 billion for obesity-related preventative care and $96 billion for smoking-related. >> are those annual numbers, dana? >> yes. in fact, actually the costs are much higher when you take into account the conditions that are a result of these behaviors. diabetes, heart disease, and the like. but i think the important point i was speaking with one endocrinologist who told me the best thing i could do for this patient is take them for a walk but i'm not paid to do that. and the point is, you know, actually why aren't we paid for

that? i mean -- >> yeah. >> no. it's a great question. mike, you look at diabetes, and you look at the extraordinary costs diabetes exacts on the system. sometimes you'll have insurers that won't pay for children preventati -- certain preventat care. but if you have to have your leg amputated they'll pay for that. >> that happens every single day of the week with insurance. everyone, dr. goldman, i think is aware of the bur goning cost of our health care system, but what is the cost or the potential cost or ever been factored into all these discussions, the cost of not having a health care system, a national health care system, at some point? i mean we're going to have 10, 20, 30, two or three more generations of people who the emergency room is their family doctor, things like that? what's the cost of not having a

comprehensive health care system? >> that's right. actually, as you think about going forward, when as we begin to discover more heroic life-saving measures, the cost of having a population that potentially is highly disabled, can't live in the community and requires nursing home care and other features, we actually see this right now with alzheimer's. one of the unfortunate consequences of doing so well in cardiovascular disease and cancer is now people can live long enough to experience severe cognitive impairment. this is becoming a social epidemic. you're right that the solution may not be biomedical. the solution -- my point is only that we need to reimburse in such a way that we encourage the right type of solution, the best one for society. it may be exercise and diet-related, for example. >> dr. goldman, thank you. uh i couldn't agree more with

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we will contain it. 36 cents a gallon is a major accomplishment and we all benefit from that accomplishment. i know that you have sacrificed much. but until we get this contained, run. >> up next, we'll head out to the olympics in london where willie geist will describe the connection between the women's u.s. soccer team and deer musk. >> oh, my goodness. welcome to hotels.com. summer road trip, huh? as the hotel experts, finding you the perfect place is all we do. this summer, save up to 30%, plus get up to $100 on us.

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♪ seems to me this completes your olympic experience. you get to run the games and now you actually have a horse in the race. what's that going to be like? >> well, it's a big exciting experience for my wife and the trainer, the rider of the horse. it's fun to be part of the olympics in any way you can be part of them. >> when is the event? for those of us who don't follow the sport is there rounds? one chance? what happens? >> i have to tell you. this is ann's sport. i'm not sure which day the sport goes on. she will get the chance to see it. i will not be watching the event. i hope her horse does well.

>> good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. time to wake up, everybody, as you take a live look at new york city. back with us on set we have michael steel, michael barnacle, harold ford, jr., and willie geist in london with the olympics. how is your horse doing? >> willie doesn't know e the name of the horse, doesn't know the event, and if there is a name of the event it has a french flair to it. >> dressage. >> yes. >> could he have distanced himself -- i'm surprised he did anything but -- you know, i'll shoot the horse after because we need glue in the house. that's the only thing mitt romney didn't do spl listen, if my wife were in the olympics, i would show more enthusiasm. must have been a political calculation. i can inform mr. romney it's august 2, it's called dressage and he ought to tune in.

his wife is at the olympics. that's excitinging. >> it's a beautiful sport. >> so you picked up big wife points. >> see how i did that? >> sometimes politicians are afraid to admit they are human. >> people think maybe it's not connecting. >> dressage. >> a million dollar horse and participate in dressage. >> everybody on your street owns a million dollar horse. >> that's not true. >> all he had to do was indicate he knew when the event was spl well, he's a busy man. >> yikes. >> i think he needs to support the wife. >> come on. at least know the name of the sport, what day it is. i'm skeptical. willie, we heard you, of course, down at the orphanage on "way too early." the north koreans are crazy. >> whoa. >> they had the invisible cell phone a couple years ago.

they were shouting instructions. what is deer musk? what does it have to do with north korean olympians? >> uhi'm glad you asked, joe. this goes back to the women's world cup when five members of the north korean team were doping. >> all struck by lightning at the same time. that happens. >> the explanation from the north korean side is they were taking a deer musk -- some sort of glandular thing from a deer as treatment for a lightning strike. apparently the entire team, according to north korean officials suffered a lightning strike. to treat it they took a musk that was banned. i don't know how you treat a lightning strike. >> deer musk. i wish the boston red sox after they were simultaneously struck by lightning at the end of august a last year would try that. >> all right. >> isn't this rich?

quickly. harold ford. sandy weill is a reformer now. >> who cares? >> he wants to break up the banks. that's funny. >> sandy isn't a bad man. i don't understand fully everything he stated, but making those comments will not only attract attention but attract attention to the issue. >> tough financial times. that's rich. >> we'll get to that. with sandy's background he's a reformer now. >> do you think his relationship with jamie dimon had anything do with him announcing yesterday on cnbc that they should break up the big banks? he's the architect. >> just a little bit. >> just a little, yeah. >> wow. >> all right. let's just go there. we have him talking about this. sandy weill. >> what we should probably do is go and split up investment banking from banking, have banks be deposit takers. have banks make commercial loans and real estate loans.

have banks do something that's not going to risk the taxpayer dollars. >> whatever, sandy. >> wait, wait. >> you have a track record. we're not letting you finish that. >> "mistakes were made." i want to hear that part. >> did he say mistakes were made? throughout my career. >> it's so good. >> if you want to understand wall street -- >> joe, you seem incredulous. >> it's extraordinary. there was a piece in "the atlantic" about the way sandy weill did business. we we'll talk about that later. mika, let's talk bush tax cuts. >> okay. >> actually, they are obama tax cuts because he extended them two years ago. >> in a mostly symbolic vote yesterday the senate approved a proposal to extend tax cuts to the middle class but would deny reductions to individuals making over $200,000. the bill closely resembles the tax cutting vision that president obama has outlined.

the senate defeated a republican proposal that would have extended all current rates for a year. minority leader mitch mcconnell allowed a straight up or down vote on the tax plan as a way to make democrats put their cards on the table. the democrat bill is unlikely to have a chance in the republican-controlled house. vice president joe biden returned to capitol hill in case he had to make the tie-breaking vote on the plan. he spoke in philadelphia earlier in the day telling the crowd mitt romney was out of touch with their values. >> this is not your father's republican party. they really, really believe that they have to cut you and millions of other middle class americans in order to rebuild this economy. because they believe at the core the way to rebuild the economy of this great nation is from the top down. we know the way to grow this economy. to coin an old phrase, the

old-fashioned way. from the middle out. governor romney who, by the way, is a good family man, a guy who means well. i think part of the problem is i don't think he just gets you. i don't think he really understands. i mean this sincerely. i don't think he understands what you're all about. what makes you tick. what makes you decide to go into this profession that you couldn't pay enough to 90% of the population, including me, to do what you do every day. >> we should call it the joe biden variety hour. play clips for two hours. >> well, that's just a great way to sort of -- >> kick off a democratic show? >> listen. he's got the very effective narrative and he's very good at it.

come on, you have nothing to say because you know he's connecting. >> we love joe. we all love joe. he's a good guy. >> he's running with it. >> democrat harold ford voted to raise taxes on people making $250,000 yesterday. what do you think? >> i don't believe this is the right approach. at a time in which we face the hardship and uncertainty you have seen the last few days some of the largest, most important u.s. companies report sagging profits. those who believe the europe situation would not directly affect u.s. companies can see they were more wrong than right. i think giving as much certainty as you can to big companies, medium-sized and small companies around anything and everything government will or won't do over the next several months is critical. is this going to solve fiscal cliff issues? no. but short of congress coming back to do something meaningful, sustainable, they should probably extend cuts for

everyone and look forward to the beginning of next spring or the beginning of next year to deal with sequestration, long-term fiscal responsibility and sustainability. short of that, i don't know how this gives more certainty, more comfort. you have talked on the show many times in the past to businesses across the nation. what concerns me, you see the front page of the newspaper, europe's crisis hits profits. rising food prices. the american consumer and american business leader needs as much certainty as they can get. i hope if congress chooses not to do the tax cuts will at least try to address some of the fiscal cliff issues in a birg, more sustainable way. >> mitch mcconnell wanted democrats to -- >> put them on the record. >> if you're going to help republicans. >> in certain -- >> most people tuned it out. >> folks are on the beach, vacationing. they're not focusing on this. the narrative about the congress has been written already.

>> it's do nothing. >> unbelievable. >> nothing will happen. sequestrati sequestration, all that stuff. we'll look at it. people will feel the same way about this congress. i think what mcconnell wanted to put them on the record in the senate. it dies in the house. to harold's point the business communities of the community will go, you know what, we'll keep whatever we have in the bank in the bank. >> yeah. it will cut investment. but, mike, between the republican house and the democratic senate -- and you have been following politics for a long time -- has there ever been a more worthless congress that's done -- >> no. >> less? >> no. >> can you, in all of your years. >> no. >> think of a time? >> no. who would want to be there? they do nothing. they're worthless. >> i don't want to take the show into a bridge abutment, but listening to harold and michael,

you join the two lines of thought together. the ineffective congress. the need for certainty e in american business. i'll tell you who doesn't have certainty because of the congress and politics is the american people. there is no certainty in this country as to what's going to happen to my children. we are now living in a country where because of the way this campaign is being waged on both sides where too many people no longer can afford to dream. that's a huge hole in the american fabric. a huge hole. >> when did this happen? i'm sorry. when did this happen? when did you wake up, mike, look up at the tv and see leaders -- well, find that america was leaderless? on both sides of pennsylvania avenue? when did this happen? when you look at two candidates running for president doing nothing and a house and a senate doing nothing and our economy is in a 30-year decline.

we have a debt crisis. where are the roosevelts? where are the reagans? where are the lincolns? where are the leaders? >> can you think of anyone? i can think of a couple of people, but i would have to stop and think about it. think of anyone who's achieved national prominence in politics who would be willing to risk their re-election for a single issue -- no matter what that issue is? whether it's health care, the tax code? >> no. >> whether it's banning ar-15s from being sold at gun shops? can you think of anyone who would risk their re-election to fight over one issue? i can't right now off the top of my head. >> we have candidates talking about assault weapons. one of them really doesn't even know the story we are talking about. >> well, candidates -- >> don't know anything. >> talk to their constituency. it's small, small interest groups. you're right, mike. who takes chances?

who dares to offend their core? >> it started, in my estimation, in the presidential race of 2000 where we set up this polarization within the country. red states, blue states, conservatives and democrats and liberals, republicans. over the course of 10, 20 years, like the drip, drip, drip, it slowly oozed out. any confidence that leaders would have to stand up to make the point, to stand there and say, on this issue i stand firmly with and move on and take the risk. they are not prepared to take the risk because of the polarization. the american people -- and i do believe this. the american people have a chance in this election to smack these leaders upside the head. you saw it in 2010. people may disagree or agree with the outcome ultimately. when the people do focus the attention of the politicians,

they do and can respond. but the question is are we prepared to give the kind of signal to say the kind of leadership we want? you know, we have been accepting of this. we created the monster. >> mika, it's like steve jobs. as far as leadership goes, steve jobs didn't sit around going, i wonder what people want? what -- should i -- i'm going to go and take a lot of -- i'm going to focus group and we're going to figure out what people want. no! >> i'm going to worry they might not want this about me, so i will cover it up. >> no. steve jobs had a igs have and said, this is where we need to go. great leaders have a vision of where they want to take america and the world. i talked about roosevelt. he had it. i talked about reagan. he had it. they had big sweeping visions of what america needed. we have such --

>> and gut instinct to back it up. >> that's the key. >> we have a couple of guys working on the most mundane engineering project right now. it's like there is no soul to -- no heart, no soul. it's just technical. >> unless they are told by a focus group to use the word "soul" or pretend they have soul. >> oh, god. >> it's true! >> we have people walking around running for office who are more afraid of tweets that attack them. people on twitter attacking them than they are of the reality. >> americans may not know this. they test words. they test phrases. if people want to know, hayward, why these presidential candidate speeches are so soulless and why none of us around this table can really say this is how barack obama will turn the economy

around in four years. you ask something, oh, yeah. we've got a great plan. nobody has plan. what's the plan? it's just, you know, let's poll test these words and see if they work with a swing group of voters in columbus, ohio. >> i think to your original question, i agree with you. in a lot of ways the people in campaigns and you and i can recall and governor still can recall. there was a time when picking a right policy director, picking a person who can make you understand foreign policy issues if running for the senate or congress. a person who understands defense installation issues in north florida you would hire. today the most important people in the campaign, fund-raisers and opposition research, the campaign pivots. at the end of the quarter how much money you raise. that shows strength. the front page of the new york times in your massachusetts senate race said elizabeth warren was formidable because

she raised so much money. >> historic amount. >> that's a wonderful thing. it would be great to know the issues for her and scott brown. >> in her case -- >> no, don't get me wrong. i don't single her out other than the fact that one of the most important newspapers in the country. >> yeah, let's not highlight that. >> the new york times talks about how the negative ads are shaping the campaign. it is all negative. look at the nbc news, wall street journal poll, both candidates are being negative. >> way down. >> the candidate from hope and change seen as twice as negative as romney. that will change because romney will run his negative ads starting in the fall. again, what's meachum's phrase? the narcicism of small differences. >> i think this is a quiet

intensity. come the beginning of october, october 3, the first presidential debate. the first time they are side by side you will see a break in the voters. >> i disagree. neither of the guys are siding with anybody? they are disappointing their own base. >> you could be right. i think we just can't sense it. i think people are at home, at work, at church, wherever they worship having the same conversations. but it's not manifesting itself like it did four years ago with the excitement of then senator obama. people are angry, frustrated and scared about the future. when people are scared they vote. >> when we come back, five years removed from the bush white house, karl rove is again leading the effort to put republicans back in control of washington. and why he might be the most consequential political strategist of his generation. first, very inconsequential. >> not true. he's great. we love bill karins and he has a

bad forecast. >> bill? >> that's true. it is a bad forecast. consequential or inconsequential, your opinion. this morning we are watching thunderstorms. this is just a weak round one that will sweep through areas along i-95 here shortly. it should be dying off through hartford, new haven, new york city and philadelphia. there will be clouds and light rain around until 10:00. then the sun comes out. it will be hot and humid. this is the weather map of the day today. the red area shows where a moderate risk of severe storms is. rare to have a large area in this section of the country. we could have a few tornadoes today. the greatest threat for tornadoes appears to be the scranton area to bingehamton new york, albany, kingston down to northern jersey. then on i-90 toward springfield down to hartford. if there are going to be tornados that's the area where they could occur. i don't think e we'll see a widespread outbreak but there could be a few this afternoon.

that's too many. the rest of the country looks calm. beneficial rain this morning in missouri. hopefully we'll get more this afternoon. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks, taking a look at the london bridge. this is new york state. we built the first railway, the first trade route to the west, the greatest empires. then, some said, we lost our edge. well today, there's a new new york state. one that's working to attract businesses and create jobs. a place where innovation meets determination... and businesses lead the world. the new new york works for business.

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precedent that was put in place by john mccain. two years and, by the way, hundreds of pages of returns for the democrat operatives to go through and twist and distort and turn in different directions and try to make a big deal out of. but, you know, the american people aren't concerned about tax returns. they are concerned about who can get the economy going and create good jobs again. i can. the president hasn't been able to do the job as he expected to do. i know how to get it done. >> you know what happens in the real world, governor. people hear "he's not going to release the returns" and they wonder why. is there a year he paid no taxes? they wonder about expensive horses, houses and what have you. i will ask another way. what is it that's preventing you from releasing the rest of your returns? >> i have released all the information about my financial holdings as required by law. beyond the law, i have released

or will finally release two years of full returns. >> joining us uh now, editor of blumberg business week, josh teringel. his article "he's back big time" is on karl rove's role in the party. it reads the 61-year-old once known as bush's brain left the white house five years ago. his patron was sinking in the polls and rove himself barely escaped indictment. he's back big time now in a performance that rivals rove's nurturing of an inarticulate texas governor into a two-term president the strategist is reengineering the practice of partisan money management in the hopes of drumming barack obama out of the white house. also joining the table the former ceo and chairman of playboy enterprises, kristy hefner as well.

michael steele and mike barnicle with us as well. curious about what's in the tax returns or do you think you know already? >> i don't think we know. when mitt romney says the american people aren't interested, they are interested in a lot of stuff. we spend a lot of time looking at these guys. 18 months where we are passively engaged and three or four where we are actively engaged. to say people aren't interested usually means people are interested. >> is anyone here mildly interested at all in his response to brian's question when asked about the tax return. the question is there are people who think perhaps there are years you paid no income taxes at all. your initial reaction, at least mine would be if i were a candidate for president would be to say, there are no years i paid no taxes. he didn't address it at all. >> which feeds the interest. it's hard not to conclude that they have made a judgment that

what is in that, not that in my view there is anything illegal in it, but could be presented in a way that the average voter would say, wait a minute. that seems disconnected from my reality. why not just get it out? >> it will be presented that way by your opponents. in politics we know that. you just know they will take the piece of paper, look at the bottom line and see a number or lack of a number. that's why i reiterate politically it's smart and astute to get ahead of it. >> absolutely. >> out's 24 hours, you know? then you get in front of it by saying, that's why i want to be president to reform the system so people at my income level do get to participate in a fair and equitable way so folks in the middle and at the bottom can appreciate that they are not carrying the burden. that we are all carrying it.

>> we are in a different time now. as we were discussing, many people do not feel their kids will do as well. by the way, the data shows they won't. there is a hopelessness. when you see someone who hasn't paid taxes a couple of years in a row or whatever, that's a huge difference between you and them. >> usually i think the stories that, to your first question to josh could be seen as more peripheral get traction is when they resonate with an impression that voters already have about a candidate. so the impression that, in fact, romney is not just a successful businessman but may be out of touch, may not be able to relate to the average voter is promoting tax policies that objectively vastly favor the wealthiest. then is the backdrop against which an issue like this gets more traction. >> right. >> one of the things that's a rule of campaigning is you can't complain about the media harping on an issue if you haven't provided an answer to the issue.

are we going to talk about it until we at least find out -- actually, that's our jobs. there is something interesting and unanswered here. it is our job to vet these candidates. give us an answer and there are other things we want to talk about that we recognize are more consequential, definitely. >> you're in one business, we are in another. with regard to years when he perhaps paid no taxes at all, we don't know that. >> right. >> because he hasn't released them. what does it say about a candidate, who part of his platform is i'm a business guy. i know how to plan. i can plan the uh economy better than this guy is planning the economy. i can plan in a way to help you get jobs better than this guy is. uh eve been thinking of running for president for at least ten years but i didn't plan on my taxes being released. huh? >> the business mindset is one that i'm only answerable to my

core constituency which in the case of a business guy is the shareholders. the shareholders don't care about tax returns. they care about the bottom line. >> oh, michael, a good ceo understands they have multiple stake holders. >> but they don't live in a public world. they don't have the fourth estate at their doorstep. >> it wasn't like it was a new idea to run for president. >> his father. >> but understand the mindset. his generation of business leaders -- >> that would be a mindset a lot of people don't relate to these days. they bucked the system, got around the rules and got through loopholes. >> but they are legal loopholes created by the men and women in congress who put those loopholes there deliberately. let's be honest and fair about it. >> mistakes were made. >> mistakes were made. you can't jump on mitt romney and say, oh, bad businessman. >> i'm not! >> people want to go there but you can't. this is a system our congress

created. >> we are supposed to talk about karl rove here. >> we will. >> that would have been fun, too. >> it would have been. let's try an attempted segue here. >> okay. karl rove. >> i don't know if karl rove was directly advising mitt romney if he would say, let's not release them and keep going. >> what would karl rove say? >> i think he would say, let's get rid of this as soon as possible so we can drive the agenda. >> exactly. >> that's why -- segue -- he actually got into the business of crossroads. american crossroads, crossroads gps, which as we know, 52741-c. karl rove is not advising a presidential candidate formally. he's gotten into the business of taking billionaires' money and applying it to the race in a way that's unprecedented. five years ago he slinked out of washington. he was in front of the federal grand jury five times. his personal fortune was

depleted. his capital in washington was depleted. the president was doing terribly. he went back to austin and he was able to see what happened over his tenure. in sports, somebody wins, somebody loses. in 2004, john kerry lost but something fundamental happened. on the one hand you had the swift boat veterans for truth. then you had george soros. kerry lost but when rove looks at the campaign he was running a hell of an offense. a really interesting and new dynamic was happening. what rove saw was the groups were wing nut groups. you had a single billionaire with a single issue like soros who was financing stuff without political polish and then you had folks moving really far to the right. rove thought, what if i get between the money and the expertise? what if i sut here and talk to people like steve wynn who is in our story. a lot of texas connections, washington connections and say,

guys, i know you want to get involved in the process. you have a vested interest. give me the money. i will take care of the messaging. i know how to do ad buys and have an impact. who would you give your money to? >> exactly. >> it's a great idea. >> they called him bush's brain. you look at what he was able to do with george w. bush. is his power now doubled, tripled, tenfold given what he can do with t system now? >> it's so much broader. bush's success at fund-raising was about bundling. rove and ed gillespie looked at mccain-feingold and said we are in trouble without some changes. now with the koch brothers, the chamber of commerce, rove having a billion dollars to spend on the election. >> when i came in as chairman and a lot of people with the

narrative in washington is about fund-raising and all of that. my first call with a major donor, i'm giving to rove's group. i said, you can give to rove's group and our group. that's the reality for the political parties. these entities. citizens united. >> it's frightening. >> they can have a bigger impact bit boils down to this. the bottom line is the ground game. that's where they don't get to play yet. i suspect down the road, they will. watch for that. >> it's also, i think, scary because as much as we express concern about past negative campaigns and goodness knows we can think of them, there was a degree of accountability when the primary spending was coming from the candidate or the party. certainly transparency about where the money was coming from. >> yep. >> the lack of either of those,

i think, is very likely to result in the opposite of what harold was predicting which i hope he's right, but i fear he's not which is to say that we will have not more turnout, but more people disgusted with the system and less engagement. and to a great extent when we talk about why don't we have more leadership, it's because the people who do step out there, whether it's olympia snowe or the president on issues like health care or the auto bailout get punished so much by the fact that it's the most rabid people that keep voting and it's more and more of the middle that doesn't. >> it's a distortion of the system. >> the one thing i will say is i don't know how much democracy benefits really from the full knowledge of who's donating to a super pac. in the end we have a good idea. to know this person donated x, that's a little bit irrelevant. what i would be concerned about is alignment. the super pacs are not aligned

with the candidates. at the same time ed gillespie is a paid adviser to the romney campaign and a cofounder of crossroads. does he have separate parts of the brain? come on. it's all beggars' belief but we have an s.e.c. that's sleeping but under funded. it's sending meter maids to a gun fight. >> playing catch up. >> the article is in bloomberg business week. josh, thank you very much. christie hefner, nice to see you. >> nice to be here. >> "hit-and-run" from the producers of "wedding crashers." you know already i'll walk out of that. >> no, no. it's funny. >> i'm just saying. i walked out of "wedding crashers." we'll see. the writer, director and dax shepherd joins us next. >> it's funny! let's take a paint project from "that looks hard"

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♪ we're going to have a wonderful day today. >> thanks, bunny. >> you're so terrible on the eyes. i don't know why i share a bed with you. >> oh! >> hit me in the nose with a

golf club? >> i didn't think it would hurt that bad! >> alex, i want my money. that's it [ screaming ] >> we have to go right now. go, baby. go, go. >> what's going on? >> i was kind of involved in a bank robbery. when i got into witness protection i knew i wouldn't be that guy anymore. >> you're a bank robber? >> i did the getaway driving part. >> who are you? >> you can't outrun me. >> let's go. >> hey, come out here. what are you looking at? >> wrong room, come on. >> that was disgusting. [ laughter ] >> that's terrible. that's like toilet talk humor. that was a part from the new movie -- >> i'm glad i stopped by. what a beautiful intro. maybe i'll tell you how you feel about your film. toilet talk humor. i hate "wedding crashers." this is great. i'm glad i flew on the red eye. awesome. >> do you know bradley cooper. >> do you want to comment on my cardigan a? terrible, right?

>> yeah. >> bradley cooper is one of my best friends. >> he came on the show. he really didn't understand me either. we're friends now. >> i hear you're not attracted to him. that makes me fearful you might be a robot or something. >> it started like this. i watched his movie -- >> which one? "the hangover". >> was it? >> probably. >> "limitless" maybe? >> i tried it. >> he's a georgetown graduate. >> "the a team". >> i know. that's how we connect. he's fantastic. so, dax shepherd is the writer and director and star of the movie. you're engaged to -- >> kristin bell. >> good lord. that's not bad. >> does that shock you? >> no, it doesn't. >> you said "good lord." >> well, she's gorgeous. when are you getting married?

>> when all of our friends can also get married in california. whenever that happens. we don't want to have a ceremony other people can't have. >> all right. that's standing for something. i like it. >> tell us about the movie and why i am not going to walk out. >> this may shock you, but women like it more than men in all the testing we have had to do over the year before the release. >> interesting. >> women like it the most. i play a guy in witness protection who leaves for the love of his life to take her to l.a. and all hell breaks loose. i'm followed by bradley cooper, the guy i testified against. tom arnold is the marshall. >> is bradley in the movie? >> that's him. >> oh, my god! with dredlocks? >> yeah. a confident bradley cooper. >> through the magic of movies and cinema he has dredlocks. this is his wig from "limitless" we destroyed. >> i may have to see this with the two of you. i like you both. >> oh, wow. we have taken a positive turn. >> what is it about comedy

movies, the physical schtick is still funny? >> it's still king. i wrote dialogue and then a cop car smashing into a van gets the laugh. you can't compete. it's the mirror neurons. we see someone get hurt and it triggers a visceral reaction. it's neurological. >> you did it all with the movie? >> i wrote it, directed and starred. >> how long? they are doing them in a short amount of time now. >> it may have been record from inception to completion. i did it all on my hiatus from "parenthood." >> where did you get the funding? >> private equity from a woman who is a film lover in palm springs. >> you say that with a smile on your face. >> it's rare to find someone that would blindly trust that you will deliver a movie. we have done it and luckily everyone is in the black.

>> what about distribution? >> it will be wide on august 24. this great company open road is releasing us on 3,000 screens. >> that's an amazing story. >> i hit the lottery. this happens once a year in the film business. >> you know ed burns. >> yes. >> he's doing a similar thing in new york. he's making small films with friends. >> yep. >> he pays them depending how much money the movie makes online in terrific little films. >> yes. you have a lot of freedom when you get independent financing. i got to make the movie i wanted to go see. i didn't have to pander to a sector of the audience. i didn't have to worry about how it would test. people do like it and it's broadly appealing but that wasn't a goal going into it. it's liberating for someone creative. the film business has shrank drastically. the first movie i was in was called "without a paddle" in 2004. that year paramount released 14

or 15. this year it was five or six. disney went from 14 to 8. all of them are cut in half. if you can't figure out how to make your own movie it won't get made. >> what was the total cost of making the film? >> that's top secret. if you tell me how much you paid for your house, i will tell you how much the movie cost. >> in terms of the cartoon effects of huge super movies made for -- >> i'll tell you this. it's gotten more affordable for different reasons. because of the technology that exists now. we shot on a camera called the elexa which is better than a film camera but i can put the data in the computer immediately. i don't have to process film. i can color correct. >> amazing. >> this film was shot and edited in my home. >> oh, my god. >> delivered cinema-quality film that was constructed with our own hands at home. >> wow. this is something that this country will always a do better than anywhere else in the worl.

>> it's still -- it's our best work. >> cutting edge. >> i hope you get married soon. >> uh i i do, too. that means everyone can. >> dax shepard, nice to meet you. >> we came full circle. >> yes, we did. we'll be right back. [ cellphone rings ]

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mr. president, you have built the biggest pipeline known to man. you have drilled on every single source of oil in america. you have reduced the price of gas down to 36 cents per gallon. everybody loves you. >> it feels great because it benefitted the american people. >> yeah. [ laughter ] >> it also benefitted the economy. >> mr. president, i have an incoming cable. the pipeline has exploded in several spots. oil is spilling everywhere and it has devastated america's national parks.

gather those most affected and explain why their sacrifice is not in vain. [ blows horn ] >> creatures of the forest, assemble. we have a disaster on our hands. we must contain it. we will contain it. 36 cents a gallon is a major accomplishment and we all benefit from that accomplishment. i know that you have sacrificed much. but until we get this contained, run. [ laughter ] >> okay. that was funny. unfortunately i uh couldn't be here last -- but dax, you were

so rude to him. he's a great guy. >> no, no. >> and bradley. >> i love bradley. he's nice. not everybody has to be attracted to him. >> he's a cool guy. >> dax is cool. >> get over yourselves. it's not a big deal. >> he had a great -- >> i'll try to movie. >> when are we back on? >> right now? >> i think we are. no. will farrell is on tomorrow. that's going to be exciting. we'll be right back. ♪ [ male announcer ] when this hotel added aflac

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welcome back to "morning joe." what did we learn today? >> mika's the best critic in the business. >> of what? >> barnicle? >> i learned that you ended up liking the movie. >> i like dax. the movie is called "hit and run." we should try it. >> very good. i learned that if joe biden goes out in public -- >> you listen and clap wildly. >> you go like that. wrap it up. >> wrong on a lot of issues but we love joe. if it's way too early, what is it? >> it's "morning joe." chuck todd is next with "the daily rundown." see you tomorrow. your boa! [ garth ] thor's small business earns double miles on every purchase, every day! ahh, the new fabrics, put it on my spark card. [ garth ] why settle for less?

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