♪ we can do anything, we can be anyone ♪ ♪ just close your eyes and try to see ♪ >> it's over! china has completed a sweep in a men's double gold. ♪ we believe, if you believe breaking news here on msnbc. seven people are dead after a shooting at a sikh temple just outside of milwaukee, wisconsin. the attack is being described in chilling terms. >> we looked at it and what the implications might be. we're treating this as a domestic terrorist-type incident. >> here's what we know. seven people are dead, including the gunman. three others are in critical conditions, including a police officer who was the first on the scene. sources tell msnbc that the

gunman was dressed in tactical gear and armed with a single handgun. the police chief arrived what happened when his officers arrived on the scene. >> our officers responded to the scene, did find a victim, and we're dealing with that individual when our officer, a 20-year veteran, was ambushed, shot multiple times. he is currently at the hospital undergoing surgery. we expect him to recover. and another officer on scene was engaged by the suspect. our officer did engage that individual and that individual is deceased from the actions that our officer took. it stopped a tragic event that could have been a lot lot worse. a service was going on with people at that location. what we've done now is -- >> we are live in oak creek. hi, john. >> reporter: hi, melissa. right now at oak creek, most of the activity is away from here, away from the temple in wisconsin.

authorities are searching what they believe to be the home of the gunman. they are not telling us much about him. he's in his 30s and has a criminal record but only minor offenses. according to law enforcement officials, he was wearing tactical gear and armed with a single handgun. but here at the temple, many have wondering what is behind this attack and they are looking for answers. >> god bless them to give them a little more knowledge, a little more education. >> is this a hate crime in what did we do wrong? was this a madman? those are major questions. if it was a random act of violence, there's no consolation in any of this. >> reporter: local officials are calling this an act of domestic

terrorism. federal officials say they have no information that this is somehow connected to any sort of terrorist group or any sort of any other kind of group. now, since 9/11, there have been incidents across the country in which sikh's have been mistakenly targeted for attacks by anti-muslim groups, largely because the male sikh wear turbans. there are routes in south asia. they are searching for answers and searching for some of those answers in the alleged gunman's home. milissa? >> and they were also searching for loved ones. it had to be terrifying for those inside. has everyone reconnected with their families at this point? >> reporter: many people hid inside the blding while this was going on and the -- so far

the officials say that there have been just the four bodies they have identified inside the temple, two outside, six victims, and then the alleged gunman killed by the first officer on the scene. meanwhile, at the hospital there are at least ten wounded people, including that officer who exchanged gunfire with the gunman and was wounded multiple times. milissa? >> john yang, thank you. scott walker of wisconsin said, our hearts go out to the victims and their families, as we all struggle to deal with the terrible violence. a man who works across the street heard the first shots and watched as the scene unfolded. he joins us on the phone. tell us everything that you saw and heard in the first moments of this tragedy today. >> hi, milissa.

what happened is, i was getting stuff out of our front closet, getting ready for the work to start. i saw a police officer across the street and i thought it was just a regular arrest or sting and i heard gunshots and then i heard more officers arriving as one officer ran in. >> were you in fear for yourself at all? >> i didn't think i was going to get hurt. i just made sure i got my boss right away. i figured he knew more of what to do than i did. >> how long would you say it was before the people who were inside the temple were able to come out? >> it was definitely -- it took for the armoured vehicle to get there, i'm going to say at least an hour or two. >> you're working right across the street. you must be somewhat familiar with what goes on at the temple. have you ever seen anything like

this before? >> no, i haven't. usually they are pretty quiet. i know they don't bother anybody. and that's what confuses me why this happened to them. >> did you talk to anybody who -- when they came out? >> i ended up talking to one lady, trying to calm her down because she was pretty hysterical. and she was just shaken up, i guess, watching certain people that she cared about getting hurt. i can't say that i blame her. >> of course. had she been inside? >> yes, she was inside. >> what did she tell you? >> i think they got the armored vehicle in there to get a group of people out. >> did she tell you anything that she heard about what she saw or heard inside? >> she said ten people died, i think. that's what i remember her saying. but she was very broken up and crying and it was hard to watch almost. >> what is the scene there now? >> i ended up getting escorted

out for safety reasons. and i ended up -- i'm home now but i'm not sure what is going on now at the bowling alley. >> all right. lebron bridges, thank you very much. >> no problem. white house officials say that the president was made aware of the shooting by his security adviser john brennan. later he released a statement saying, michelle and i were deeply saddened to learn of the shooting that tragically took so many lives. our thoughts and our prayers and hearts go out to the families and friends of those who were killed and wounded. my administration will provide whatever support is necessary to the officials who were responding to this tragic shooting and moving forward with that investigation. former governor and, of course, presidential candidate, mitt romney also released a statement saying, ann and i extend our thoughts and prayers

to the victims of today's shooting in wisconsin. this was a senseless act of violence and a tragedy that should never befall any house of worship. our hearts are with the victims, their families, and the entire oak creek sikh community. we join americans who lost their lives and pray for healing in the difficult days ahead. police say the investigation is now in the hands of the fbi who is treating it as a case of don't mess domestic terrorism. joining us is cliff van zandt. what would you describe as domestic terrorism? >> it's an act that is designed to impact, terrorize, coerce a certain group of people in the united states. again, there are a number of criminal violations that local, state, and federal that would

fall under this. but since 9/11 we've had definitions that allow the fbi to come in and use its investigative resources, its laboratory from all of these resources across the country can be used at this time. i think that's why, in this case, just like, for example, in oklahoma city, that was another act of domestic terrorism. why some people may wrestle back and forth on what the definition is, what law enforcement cares about is the resources that can be brought to bear. and in this particular case, we've got 750,000 sikhs in the united states. 30,000 worldwide that all feel impacted by this event. >> clint, tell us -- far too often -- these things happen far too often anyway, but today the suspect was described as wearing tactical gear. what does that tell you about a

person who does such thing? >> number one, it sends a shudder through you, doesn't it? we just heard the same reporting of an individual in tactical clothing carrying weapons. i've heard this latest shooting -- i've heard one report suggesting that he had two handguns, like cho at virginia tech had. now msnbc is reporting one. when you hear "tactical clothing," this is someone who just didn't do it on the lark. like the shooter in aurora. may well have taken some time to put the clothing together, the weapon, the ammunition. and, milissa, what frightens us all, this may be another type of copycat, someone who saw what took place in aurora, took the implements that he had and carried out this terrible attack. >> this must be a scene of utter chaos, also for the law

enforcement who have arrived. we've heard so many different things today. for instance, was there more than one shooter? where do they start and where do they go from there? >> well, this is the challenge for first responders, these brave police officers who came on the scene. we're told by the chief that the first officer was shot done. the second officer came in and engaged the shooter, shot the subject and put him down. but now you've got people running out of the temple, speaking in plural. there are shooters with an s inside, guns being fired, multiple people being shot. so now first responders, s.w.a.t. teams, in the case of aurora, but even more now because there's a possibility of two or more shooters. you have to clear the building, you have to tend to the wounded, you have to deal with the deceased and you have to clear that large 17,000 square foot building. you have to look anywhere from the ceiling to the basement to make sure there's not another

shooter inside. >> okay. >> one police officer was down already. they wanted to be as fast as they could to save civilians. >> clint, we want you to stay with us. we'll take a quick break. stay with us because we have more ahead. [ man ] you think that jason bourne was the whole story? ♪ who is he? it's aaron cross. he's an outcome agent. we should go. if there is hell, now would be the time to bring it on. ♪ ♪ what are you gonna do? [ cross ] i'm gonna finish what he started. [ male announcer ] "the bourne legacy." rated pg-13. that bringing you better technology helps make you a better investor. with our revolutionary e-trade 360 dashboard you see exactly where your money is and what it's doing live. our e-trade pro platform offers powerful functionality that's still so usable you'll actually use it.

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we are shocked. this is the first time -- i've been in this country for 21 years. this is totally shocking. and my own is injured. he's in the hospital. >> we're continuing to follow this breaking news out of oak cliff, wisconsin. a shooter went into a sikh temple with hundreds of people inside. don porter joins us on the phone

with an investigation into who this gunman was. thank you for joining us. >> reporter: hi, milissa. what we're hearing as we speak is that local law enforcement officials are heading to a town just west of the temple where the shootings occurred and it's speculated that that perhaps could be the home of the gunman. that's unfolding right now. >> do we know anything about him so far? we were told he was wearing tactical gear when he walked in. >> yes, i have seen that report. the police chief of the municipality, oak creek, told the media this afternoon that they still believe it was one gunm gunman, a white male, believed to be in his 30s. other than that, there's no information on him at all. >> initially there was confusion

as to whether there was hostages inside. correct me if i'm wrong but it's believed that the officer first on the scene did in fact kill the gunman before he was able to take more hostages. >> yes, that was a very confusing set of circumstances this morning. but what we're hearing now is the first officer showed up at the scene in response to a 911 call and shot the shooter -- the shooter, i should say, shot that officer multiple times. a second oak creek officer then showed up, returned fire, and killed the shooter. the officer who is wounded is expected to recover but is in surgery right now. >> in the initial chaos, loved ones and friends, obviously, arrived at the temple and were held back by the police. they just wanted to know if their loved ones were safe. we know that many people were hiding. of course they were hiding inside. tell us about that and whether or not everyone has now been reconnected with their families. >> well, the families of those

who were concerned about their loved ones in the temple have been told to gather in a local bowling alley that is heavily secure and they are allowed to exchange information and find out more about anyone who may have been injured or killed so that is still unfolding right now. but it is -- we are still getting some information about what a chaotic situation it was when the gunman began firing, there were victims both inside and outside the temple. >> bring us back to the search at the apartment or home that is believed to have been where this alleged gunman lived. it is our understanding that the fbi is now in control of this investigation. is that right? >> that's correct. the fbi is taking control of the investigation. the police chief of oak creek at a media conference this afternoon called this an act of domestic terrorism which, among

other things, engages the fbi in the investigation. whether the fbi is at this home, i can't tell you. but i do know that fta agents are there and they are involved in weapon searches and the like. >> don walker, a reporter with the "milwaukee sentinal," thank you for joining us today. >> you're welcome. >> let's go back to clint van zandt. we were just hearing that federal officials are now at the home -- believed to be the home of this alleged shooter. what exactly are they doing now? >> well, they are going to be looking for his records and cell phones. they are trying to find out what, if any, if they can determine the motive -- the

shooter is dead. he can't tell us his mod tif. hopefully we can find that out from his writings, his internet, his phone calls, e-mail. and, number two, was there a co-conspirator with these activities. we found out from a couple weeks ago that there were hints. psychological rage issue. we found that in aurora and we're going to probably find it now. we just need to give the authorities time to sort this out. >> as a former fbi profiler, tell us about the kind of person who does this kind of thing and they always seem to meet the same kind of skripg. young white male. dressed in tactical gear. we were told that he was armed with one handgun. >> yeah, i think that's still

open whether it's going to be one or multiple handguns. and, again, they will be looking at his car, at his home to try to find out if he had more weapons. he shot quite a few people. so if he just had one handgun, i'm sure he probably reloaded at least one time. as far as the profile goes, you know, we're looking at this same time of shooter again, this age group. when we looked at it two weeks ago, we had somebody between 15 and 25 and, as far as i was concerned, there was a good chance of schizophrenia on the part of the aurora shooter. here we're going to have to find out, again, do we have a mental illness that has gone untreated, unaddressed? or do we have someone so filled with anger and rage and as the sikhs in america will tell you, many times they have been misidentified as muslims and they've had americans attack them subsequent to 911. of course, one of the first victims after 911 w a sikh in

arizona and someone killed him in anger thinking he was muslim. so all of these issues have to be sorted out. but that's why the fbi's looking at this as domestic terrorism. they want to find out what the motive, who else knew about it, who else was involved. >> all right. clint van zandt, thank you. stay with us. stay with us. we have a live report from the scene of the sikh shooting in oak cliff, wisconsin, coming right up. people with a machine. what ?

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seven people are dead and three are in critical condition. one of those is the police officers the first to arrive. the lone gunman was dressed in tactical gear and armed with a handgun. andy is live. tell us what you are hearing and where things stand now. >> reporter: a number of the people inside the sikh temple are gathered inside a bowling alley talking to police, trying to learn more about what the suspect may have said as he carried out the shooting. the officer shot multiple times, we understand, will survive. that's what police are saying. police are saying that they are calling this a case of domestic terrorism. that's based on the victims involved here. that doesn't indicate anything else. that leaves all of us to wonder

if it was a hate crime or not. we just don't know. police aren't saying a word about the suspect. the police have gotten into and are surrounding a home in cudahy, which is a suburb around here where they think the suspect lived. milissa? >> have you been able to talk to anyone who was inside at the time? >> reporter: we have not actually been able to talk to anyone inside. although we've talked to a number of people who have relatives inside at the time. they have amazing stories, including one, the nephew of the president of the temple was locked inside a bathroom calling out on his cell phone, either texting or calling when the shooting happened and his nephew was saying that his uncle, the president, actually tried to stop the shooter in some way and wound up himself being shot. he's one of those in the hospital still as we speak. >> during the initial chaotic

hours, we know that many people were hiding inside and a number of people have not been accounted for by their loved ones. has that happened at this point? >> reporter: we think everyone has been connected with their loved ones and everyone has been accounted for. at this point, everyone knows where emp veryone is. it could have been much worse but this shooting happened between services at the sikh temple as opposed to maybe a few inside, there could have been hundreds. >> exactly. and some people who were shot inside, we understand, some people were shot outside as well? >> reporter: right. the police officer who showed up at the scene actually caught the suspect towards the end of this. they engaged in a gun battle. the officer was shot several times. but it was another officer who then shot the suspect, shot him dead. and that is what ended all this. but as it began, we understand the shooter walked up to one of the church elders there at the sikh temple elders and talked to him briefly outside the temple,

shot him, and then walked inside. as far as where all of the people were at the various times, police haven't yet given us an idea of how that shook out. >> we haven't been able to hear much about the conditions of the other victims who were taken to the hospital. what are you hearing? >> at least three in critical condition. the three were in critical condition and we're told that a total of ten were in the hospital. there could have been other people who went out of the hospital on their own, who may have been injured in other ways. it sounds like the three that are most critically hurt are those who are in critical condition, including that officer who was shot, a 20-year veteran, by the way. >> nbc's andy rosegen, thank you for being with us today. let's bring back clint van zandt, an msnbc analyst and a former fbi profiler. we have a situation, a lone gunman and he had one pistol and

dressed in tactical gear. >> yeah. i think what we're going to find out right now with the fbi being the laid agency for the potential act of terrorism, they will handle the investigation, both locally with the police department as well as anything that has to be done out of state. as important, they will be gathering all of the evidence. you'd like one agency to put all of the evidence together. so whether it's bullets, guns, computers, cell phones, they are going to put all of that together. again, milissa, the main purpose is to find out who this guy was, what his motive was and if anyone else knew that he was going to do this or if anyone conspired with him. remember, we had an act like this two weeks ago. we had the shooting in aurora. that was followed up by a booby-trapped apartment. police will be moving somewhat slow when they go into the suspect's house to make sure we don't have a copycat in that regard. >> the security has been stepped

up in different parts of the country around sikh temples. i know in new york city they made a point of immediately stepping up security outside of sikh temples here as well. you mentioned the word copycat. we have no idea -- we'll find out whether it is one or not -- because this could have been planned before colorado. but tell us what you know as an expert in this field. what goes into a person being a copycat? do they say, i'm angry and frustrated and that looks like a great way for me to be able to take it out on somebody? >> and there are people who just do that. they are angry, frustrated. many times they single out an individual or people group and they hold that person or those individuals responsible. realize, since 9/11, the sikhs in america, they have reported about 700 acts of violence directed against them so they feel they are very much an affected group. >> cliff van zandt, thank you very much. after the break we will take you

back to "hardball."

i'm milissa rehberger. there was a shooting at a sikh temple and federal agents are surrounding a home at a milwaukee suburb. we don't know if that's the suspect's home or not. a federal law enforcement official tells pete williams that the suspect used a single gunman. he was born in 1971. president obama was briefed on

the shooting and released a statement offering his condolences. mitt romney also released a similar statement. more ahead throughout the night. now back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." swing states are being ham bettered with political ads. the pro romney forces and applied super pacs are consistently outspending the obama people. it's likely to continue as the coke brother group continues a month-long ad said to begin next week. should the obama campaign be worried? despite the money being spent,

mitt romney isn't inching up in the polls. in fact, he looks down in the latest poll that i saw. strategists that are both political ad makers, steve macmahon, this campaign, look at the differ ren sal. why isn't it paying dirt? why aren't you getting pay dirt on the romney side? >> the fact is, you can reach a point of diminishing returns and what you have on the romney side over the last few months, about 150 million in pro romney anti--obama spending. about 130 million on the democratic side which more the average person who has to watch all of these -- >> is that how you talk with all of your friends? >> yes. >> he swore on the show. >> i think you can say that. >> we were talking about how romney is really charming fellow.

>> the average person who has to watch these, it's the equivalent of being overtaken by a tidal wave or avalanche. they are both getting bombarded. >> with "hardball" we went to iowa. it worked. it blew away santorum. how can you say that ads don't work? >> the more you know, the less they work. the less you know, the more they work. the reason his ads are working so well against mitt romney, they are introducing information that's new and relevant to the conversation. bain is new to most people. it's relevant because it's about the economy and the economy he can create and it's troubling. >> some of the pre-interviews, it doesn't do any good to pound the old arguments. if you can pound something that we do here every night -- here's an ad by obama's people set to

be released in eight swing states. let's watch. >> you work hard, stretch every penny, but chances are you pay a higher tax rate than him. mitt romney made $20 million in 2010 but paid only 14% in taxes. probably less than you. now he has a plan that would give millionaires another tax break and raise his taxes on middle class families by up to $200,000 a year. mitt romney's middle class tax increase. he pays less, you pay more. >> why this is a technical point. why do they do that product placement? why that trump airplane behind him? why that point? >> it's a media message. >> is trump bad news? >> it is if you're mitt romney. it's a great ad because it does three things effectively. new information relevant to the conversation and leverages a

concern that people have both about the economy and where mitt romney would take it. it's a very effective ad. >> do you like the ad? >> it's classic class warfare. it's an argument that they tried earlier and they are trying it again now. >> what kind of an ad campaign would you run if you were president obama? >> i think the most effective attacks that the obama campaigns have brought on romney is where it's romney in his own words, where he's -- you know, whatever the gaffe was, they put it together. >> romney came out and released this ad attacking his record in florida. let's watch that one. >> four years ago, barack obama was concerned about florida's economy. >> when wages are flat, prices are rising, more and more americans are mired in debt. our economy as a whole suffers. >> but under president obama, 8.6% unemployment.

record foreclosures, 600,000 more floridians in poverty. he focused on obama care instead of jobs. barack obama. what a disappointment. >> okay. that's bleak. >> you know why that ad isn't working for them? there's no information in there that is new? the president is expressing his concern about the economy in 2008. people are concerned about the economy today. >> the purpose of that spot, though, was not to deliver a factoid. it was to deliver an emotion. the idea is, while people are out of work, while people are suffering, the president has been off chasing this extreme agenda, whether it's obama care or any -- >> i don't think we're in a great mood now but we're in a concern. but that ad was bleak.

>> an ad for florida -- in florida -- florida turned pretty bad, too. >> you guys are running that place. two republican senators and a governor, you blame it on the dems. a new study by the u.s. public research group and democrats, two left-winning groups that show the tiny fraction of americans spending big money on super pacs this year. this is educational for us. 1,082 made up 94% of all contributions by individuals in the 2012 election cycle. catch this number. this is devastating. just 47 of those people who each donated a million dollars or more actually account for more than half of all of the super pac giving. todd, i am on defense to this. here we have 100 senators but only 47 contributors now are running this show. they are giving the lion's share, the majority of all of the money going to super pacs.

they are calling the shots in a presidential election. do you think that's good for the country and the super pacs? >> no, but guess whose fault it is? >> campaign reform that said that an individual can give as much as they want but a political party is capped at this pault tree amount of money that is not enough to do anything in a modern day campaign. >> first of all, it says -- >> these people are fanatic about it. >> the political party is -- these are all republicans, 98% are republicans, 98% of the money is going to defeat democrats and there are people worried about their state taxes going up. >> so if you turn on the tv in one of these key states during the campaign through november 6th, what ever it is -- >> november 6th. >> you are going to hear money thrown at you by 47 people? >> look. 157 million on one side, 130 on the other. we are not talking about the republicans in the romney

campaign significantly outgunning the democrats. the numbers speak for themselves. >> all i know is this. romney won't tell us his tax returns. the rich people will not say they are giving money to these campaigns. that's consistent. thank you, todd harris and mcmahon. the king of the crazies had a heck of a week this week. he's done everything from defending dogfighting and telegram news of his birth from kenya so is looks like he was born -- he's a nut. he's a nut. and this is "hardball," a place for politics. ♪ [ male announcer ] its lightweight construction makes it nimble... ♪ its road gripping performance makes it a cadillac. introducing the all-new cadillac xts. available with advanced haldex all-wheel drive. [ engine revving ] it's bringing the future forward.

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well, the romney spokesperson who said to shove it, rick gorca would take a break. he was involved in this now infamous dust-up with reporters. >> governor romney -- >> governor romney, do you have a statement for the palestinians? >> what about your gaffes? >> do you. >> show some respect people, show some respect. >> will we have another chance to ask him questions [ bleep ]? >> this is a polish site for the polish people. show some respect. >> i love my -- kiss my. no word when gorka will return

to the campaign. we'll be right back.

we're back. steven king has had a heck of a week and he questioned why dog fights are illegal and why diversity has made our country strong. he doesn't believe in that. also, maybe, just maybe, obama's mom sent a telegram from kenya to hawaiian newspapers to announce her son's birth inaccurately. is this for real? ron reagan is an msnbc contributor and lizz winstead is

the author of "lizz free or die." lizz, thank you for joining us. steve king, the congressman from iowa wanted to know why people oppose legislation to make it illegal for people to attend dog fights. let's watch that the congressman said. >> the legislation that passed in the farm bill that said that it's a federal crime to watch animals fight or to induce someone else to watch an animal fight but it's not a federal crime to induce somebody to watch people fighting or something along with the priorities of people who think like that. >> what do you make of this guy, this character? >> well, it's so interesting because, you know, he went on to say all of these crazy things about kidnapping children and taking them across state lines and then dropping them off at a playground which i think is illegal in all 50 states. somebody like this, he's gone out of his way to vote against

any kind of deal that has anything to protect animals. and after a while, you think, a, what did an animal do to him. and, b, i think he watches those aspca ads like other people watch porn. it's insane. >> vick has cleaned up his act apparently but this guy wants to go further. he wants to legalize dogfighting, cock fighting and except for the obvious difference, people decide who wins the boxing. >> exactly the point. look, it's easy to make fun of the steve kings of the world. >> i intend to. >> really, really easy to make fun of the steve king. if ignorance was an olympic favorite, he'd be on the medal stand. maybe he's on to something with this dogfighting. maybe what he's really saying is we ought to make it legal to watch people fight like we do

dogs. your point was the right one, dogs don't choose. people do. >> and also you don't shoot people after they fight if they lose. >> he tried to explain what he meant. you're not going to believe this. take a look. >> and what i said is that we need to respect humans as -- more than we do animals. whenever we start elevating animals up to that above humans, we've crossed a moral line. for example, if there's a sexual predator out there who has impregnated a young girl, say a 13-year-old girl and it happens in america more times than you and i would like to think, that sexual predator could pick the girl up at the playground and haul her across the state line and force her to get an abortion to eradicate the evidence of his crime and bring her back and drop her off at the swingset and that's not against the law in the united states of america. >> you know, i don't know wre to begin.

i guess it has something to do with a pro life position. you're kidnapped, you're raped, it's at least statutory. the young girl would bring no evidence against it. take her back to the swing that she was swinging on. what does he mean here? >> i don't know. this is what is so insane about him. and just to top it off, in his big week, he then goes on -- he's hammering home the fact that we needed english as the national language. he apparently speaks english and i have no idea what he is saying. >> you know what i'd like to do, i'd like to have a spot check, take the immigration exam. the naturalization exam. make him answer logical questions. your thoughts? >> that would be great. >> he's warning us, though, of this epidemic here of legal rain and child kidnapping. >> yes. >> it's going all over the place. you probably thought it was illegal, too. >> it's called a man act, by the

way. there's a law against taking someone across the state lines. at the same time, be at the town hall he talked about dogfighting and took a question from a birther asking why he isn't investigating obama's eligibility to be president. here we go again. here's his theory. let's listen. >> we went down into the library of congress and we found a microfiche there of two newspapers in hawaii, each of them had published the birth of barack obama. it would have been awfully haurd hard to fraudulently file the birth notice of barack obama being born in hawaii and get that into the microfiche that they keep of all of the newspapers published. that doesn't mean that there aren't some other explanations of how they might have announced that from telegram from kenya. the list goes on. >> i have another explanation. you, sir, are insane. thank you, ron reagan and lizz winstead for joining us tonight. we'll be right back. ess from psoriatic arthritis hit,

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let me finish tonight with this. it's about the king of crazies. steve king, republican of iowa. he goes through the records, documents the newspaper announcements of president obama's birth in hawaii but continues to push the birther case. he continues to maintain that the president of the united states was not born in the united states. that somehow a white man married a woman in kenya and had the

purpose to have the kid grow up to be the president. she did this with the cooperation. and a sane person would ask this question, if this person of kansas had her son elected as president, would she marry a man from east africa, schedule the baby's delivery, or take the child to indonesia and, d, create a false paper trail. the king of the crazies has an interesting way of thinking, of course. he asked why anyone would want to outlaw dogfighting or cock fighting or anything like it when we allow humans to fight. is there a trick in that question? obviously people who fight decide to fight. animals are thrown into an arena, perhaps in someone's garage and prodded into fighting. he says a sexual predator can i am pregnant nate