go what awaits them should this election take their turn. what should we call it? how about caveat emptor. let the buyer beware. this is the group they could have ruling our republic. this is "hardball." "the ed show" with ed schultz starts right now."hardball" for. "the ed show" is next. good evening, americans. welcome to "the ed show" from new york. 91 days before the 2012 election. a new report explains why mitt romney might owe senator harry reid an apology. this is "the ed show." let's get to work. >> the word is out he hasn't paid any taxes for ten years. >> a shocking new report outlines how mitt romney may have legally dodged taxes. >> let him prove that he has paid taxes because he hasn't. >> david k. johnson will give us the details and eugene robinson is here on the politics. well, seeing as how dick --

excuse me, vice president cheney never misfires -- >> dick cheney never apologized for shooting someone in the face. but sarah palin's got him running scared. >> it wasn't so much governor palin as it was the basic process being used. >> democratic strategist bob shrum will weigh in on the power of palin. >> another day, another lie from the romney campaign. this time, it's about welfare. msnbc's jonathan alter is here with reaction. governor, what did you buy? >> and mitt romney lets his true colors shine with another out of touch moment. you won't believe what the unemployed millionaire picked up at the hardware store. good to have you with us. thanks for watching. in this election cycle, every day is tax day in the 2012 presidential campaign. even when the conversation isn't about mitt romney's personal tax returns, it's about his tax policies. >> he'd ask the middle class to

pay more in taxes so he could give another $250,000 tax cut to people making more than $3 million a year. it's like robin hood in reverse. it's romney hood. >> the president's latest nickname for his opponent has the right wingers throwing absolute fits. they're trying to defend mitt romney by calling robin hood a tea party member. >> robin hood was stealing from the government. robin hood was a tea party activist. robin hood was anti-taxes. >> but all the right wing noise can't hide the fact that the president's larger point is this. a major message of this election is about tax fairness. mitt romney's tax policies give advantages to the very wealthy at the expense of middle class families in america. that's his plan. this is why so many people want to see mitt romney's tax returns. who is this guy? what does he believe? for the past week, senate

majority leader harry reid, i mean, this guy's been raked over the coals for saying he has a source that told him that mitt romney didn't pay any taxes for ten years. well, a new article is out. "u.s. news and world reports" shows that how romney could get away with a ridiculously low tax rate. the article quotes an accounting professor from the university of notre dame saying that i wouldn't be surprised if mitt romney paid nearly zero taxes in 2008 and 2009. mitt romney says, this isn't true. >> now let me also say categorically, i have paid taxes every year and a lot of taxes. >> ooh, i want to see that. well, when your income is sitting around $20 million a year, you're going to pay a lot of taxes. even if your tax rate is at 1%. that's where i think the american people are. that's a heck of a lot of money. let's take mitt romney's 2010 tax returns as an example. we know he made $21.7 million.

he paid $3 million in taxes. his entire income comes from where? well, investments in capital gains, dividends and interest. the maximum tax rate mitt romney could pay on his income is at 15%. but you also have to factor in $4.8 million he declared as a loss carried over from prior years. now, romney's final rate after deductions is at 13.9%. mitt romney says he doesn't know if he ever paid a lower rate than 13.9%. and senator john mccain says his campaign saw 23 years worth of tax returns? mccain said last month, i can personally vouch for the fact that there was nothing in his tax returns that would in any way disqualify him to be a candidate. that's all good to know. but what about the tax returns john mccain's campaign did not see, namely years 2008 and 2009. now, you might remember a little problem we had with the economy back in the old financial sector smacked us pretty good back in

2008. let's see. the s&p 500 fell 37%. most investors, how did it go? well, they lost money. 100% of mitt romney's recent income is from investments. it's safe to say that mitt romney lost money in the financial collapse. and we know he declared a loss as recently as 2010. "u.s. news and world report" says the loss carried over to 2009 could have provided a huge deduction. combined with the same sorts of charitable donations and other deductions he claimed in 2010, that could have pushed his tax burden close to zero. there's another trick big investors like romney like to have. it's called tax harvesting. tax harvesting is when an investor sells off weak investments at a loss. this is done to offset taxes on better performing investments. i guess you could say it's a smoke screen against the irs.

there's no proof mitt romney did any of this. but we won't know unless we see his tax returns. but we do know the tax code is designed for wealthy americans and that's the conversation republicans simply do not want to have. mitt romney's plan will make the little guy pay a higher rate. this is mitt romney's idea of tax fairness. >> we have right now a 15% tax on capital gains. that's the rate that i would keep in place for now. and what i would say is we would remove the tax for people in middle incomes, their tax would go to zero. the tax for higher income folks would stay the same. >> no matter what he says, romney's plan still benefits the wealthy at the expense of the middle class in this country. let's say you're a middle aged person, your income is, what, let's take $52,000 a year. $2,000 is investment income. but you are still taxed on your total income at 25%. president obama wants guys like mitt romney, the wealthiest americans, to pay the same on

most investment income as wage earners do on their income. until mitt romney understands the fundamental idea of tax fairness, i think the romney hood nickname works pretty well at this point in time of the campaign. get your cell phones out. want to know what you think. tonight's question, do you think people as rich as mitt romney will ever pay their fair share of taxes? text "a" for yes, text "b" for no to 622639. you can leave a comment at our blog at ed.msnbc.com. we'll bring you the result late every on in the show. >> i'm joined tonight by eugene robinson, msnbc analyst and associate editor and pulitzer prize winning columnist for the "washington post" and david k. johnson, columnist for reuters and author of the book "free lunch." gentlemen, good to have you with us tonight. this is the discussion that simply will not go away. and i kind of find it entertaining. i'd like to know how romney is going to get out of this mess. david, let's start with you

first. how likely is it that romney got his taxes to nearly zero in 2008 and 2009 and that may not be what he wants to have the american people see and know? >> i think there's a very good chance of that. this loss carried forward in the 2010 return means that he had greater losses than capital gains the previous year, and he had $5 million losses to carry forward. that suggests he paid very little tax. because he was the manager of an investment fund, he was able to defer, and that would be at the heart of if there was a ten-year period of little or no tax being paid, and to make a bad joke, it's a bit thin reed to lean on, but it's a very important point. he could have lived by borrowing against his assets by paying no taxes as very many wealthy people do. so there's a very good chance he paid little or no tax. and you have to parse what he said carefully, ed. he said i paid a lot of taxes. he didn't say i paid a lot of federal income taxes. he didn't say i paid a lot of massachusetts state income taxes.

he said i paid a lot of taxes. well, even the poorest person in america pays taxes. >> eugene, this is the story that mitt romney wants to go away. and it doesn't seem like it will go away, but has harry reid, has he really made this argument harder for romney with his ordeal that's gone on for a week now? >> well, yes, he made it much harder for romney. there's an old irish proverb, if you want an audience, start a fight. and what harry reid did was start a fight, and the audience is paying attention. so he comes out with this statement, i've got a source. he didn't pay taxes for ten years. and, gee, if i'm wrong, show me. and he just puts it out there, and romney has to respond in some way. and there's no response he can really make that's satisfying, i think, i think, except showing that harry reid is wrong, if,

indeed, he is wrong. and clearly, romney does not want to open the taxes. you have to conclude there's something in there he doesn't want us to see. >> the big calculation is he thinks this will hurt him with the american people. they won't comprehend any of this stuff because they don't live like this. here is romney asked about his tax rate by abc news. >> we know that there was one year when you paid about a 13.9% tax rate. can we clear this up by asking you a simple yes or no question? was there ever any year when you paid lower than the 13.9%? >> i haven't calculated that. i'm happy to go back and look. >> david, is it possible mitt romney can't calculate what his tax rate was in prior years? >> no, it is not possible. and someone who is as money motivated as mitt romney knows exactly what he paid in taxes every year. he's worked very hard not to pay taxes. there's a huge scandal in italy where he made an investment when he was running bain that returned $28 for every dollar they put in and paid essentially no income taxes. that's one of many examples of

how carefully romney paid attention to legal tax avoidance and may have for all we know, engaged in some kind of illegal or questionable tax avoidance, but it is knot credible for him to say, gee, i don't know, especially when he said, i'll go check to abc and now he hasn't done it. >> you know, we show the vulture chart here on "the ed show" from time to time about where the income is going over the past 30 years in the country. eugene, could it be possible that mitt romney is the perfect candidate for the democrats at a time when there's a conversation about tax fairness going on and this is a huge uh-oh moment for the republicans? >> well, i think, look, the democrats could do worse, frankly, than having mitt romney to run against at this moment. i mean, it is totally not credible that he doesn't know what his tax rate was. that makes no sense. and i just don't think this is going away. it's ridiculous to say, oh, you poor american people, you

wouldn't understand the burdens that a rich man like me carries through life when i try to do my taxes. it's ridiculous. sure, people will understand. that's the problem. people will understand what's going on there, and they'll see how the tax code is weighted to favor those with a net worth of 2$250 million or so. >> don't you find it interesting if you look at his tax policy, what he wants to implement, it kind of parallels the kind of return we think he had in 2008 and 2009. >> absolutely. and, remember, romney's tax plan is to raise taxes on families with children at home and families who want to send their children to college. now, that ought to be, and i suspect will be before the election, a much more important issue than it is right now. raising taxes on families with children was a big goal -- lowering them was a big goal of the republicans. romney wants to raise them. and going after people who want to get a college education to get ahead, excuse me.

>> when does the story end, gene robinson? >> the story ends either when mitt romney shows the taxes and shows there's nothing in there or on election day. but it's not going away any other way. >> or one of you guys in washington actually digs up the source that harry reid has been talking about, right? >> right. >> all right. >> comes up with his tax returns. >> eugene robinson, david k. johnson, great to have you with us tonight. thanks so much. >> remember to answer tonight's question at the bottom of the screen, share you thoughts at twitter at ed show and on facebook. we always want to know what you think. next, poor dick cheney. he's so misunderstood. he's now clarifying comments he made about sarah palin. bob shrum weighs in on that. stay tuned. you're watching "the ed show" on msnbc.

you tell us what you want to pay, and we give you a range of coverages to choose from. who is she? that's flobot. she's this new robot we're trying out, mostly for, like, small stuff. wow! look at her go! she's pretty good. she's pretty good. hey, flobot, great job. oops. [ powers down ] uh-oh, flobot is broken. the "name your price" tool, only from progressive. call or click today.

coming up, dick cheney back tracks on his comment about sarah palin's vp nomination, and the rnc chair is saving her a spot at the convention. bob shrum on the power of palin. that's next.

and the obama campaign continues its push to open up early voting for all folks in ohio. now some military groups are joining the fight. i think they're wrong at it. ohio congresswoman betty sutton will join me for the conversation. >> and it could be mitt romney's biggest lie yet. a new romney campaign ad claims the president is gutting welfare? we'll have the facts later. share your thoughts with us on facebook and on twitter. using the hash tag "ed show."

we all know dick cheney does not apologize. he hasn't apologized for iraq, for warrantless wire tapping, for torture. in fact, when cheney shot his friend in the face, the friend apologized to him. but now, the former vice president is getting about as close to an apology as he could ever get. and walking back comments he made about sarah palin. the controversy erupted last week when cheney said putting palin on the 2008 republican ticket was a mistake. >> i like governor palin. i've met her, i know her. she's an attractive candidate, but based on her background, she had only been governor for two years, i don't think she passed that test. >> of being ready. >> of being ready to take over. and i think that was a mistake. >> it didn't take long for palin to pounce on those comments. >> seeing as how dick -- excuse me, vice president cheney never misfires, then evidently, he's quite convinced what he had evidently read about me by the

lame stream media having been written, what i believe is a false narrative over the last four years, evidently, dick cheney believed that stuff, and that's a shame. >> last night, cheney clarified his remarks on fox news. he wasn't criticizing palin. he was criticizing the process. >> it wasn't aimed so much as at governor palin as against the basic process that mccain used. my point basically dealt with the process in terms of that basic requirement, is this person prepared to step in and be president of the united states when they're picked? and it was my judgment, i was asked if i thought the mccain process in '08 had been well done or was it a mistake. i said i thought it was a mistake. >> rnc chair reince priebus is also trying to make nice. priebus said he's hopeful palin will have a role at the upcoming republican convention in tampa. >> certainly she's great. and i think a lot of her and

hope that she does speak. >> let's bring in democratic strategist bob shrum. bob, great to have you with us tonight. are we witnessing sarah palin having just enough political juice where they can't diss her and they have to include her? what's this all about? >> well, there are two things here. first of all, reince priebus didn't do his job. his job is to protect the presidential nominee. what he did by that comment was say, it's fine with me if she speaks and put it in romney's court. i think she'll end up speaking in fringe time, but it doesn't mean the networks aren't going to take some or a lot of what she says and put it out there. and secondly, with cheney, he didn't misfire the first time. he was right on target but the roof fell in on him. went after him. his own daughter elizabeth cheney went after him. i have a friend who is a republican strategist who described the california republican party as a narrow cult in search of herotics. that increasingly describes the

national gop. you're not allowed to believe in climate change. you're not allowed to say sarah palin wasn't qualified. she wasn't qualified. how could dick cheney possibly think that somebody who says we have to stand with our ally, north korea, is qualified to be president? >> what does this say about palin's power? does she have just enough political juice at this point, and you bring up an interesting point about dick cheney's daughter, liz cheney. not also wanting to, it seems, alienate sarah palin. it's just a crowd they don't have to be at odds with, isn't it? >> look, romney has shown throughout this, and i think this is what this reflects, that he will say anything, do anything, dot any "i," cross any "t" that the right wing demands in order to get the votes. she has appeal with a certain segment of the republican party. romney wants those votes. he's going to be forced to put her on the convention program unless she turns it down and declines herself. but, look, all you have to do is look at the polling.

the country knows she wasn't qualified, and, in fact, she didn't run in 2012 for one reason. she couldn't have won the republican nomination for president. even in that narrow party she's not got majority support, but she's got a very loyal, devoted following. if you diss her, they're going to diss you. >> and if palin does get a substantial role at the convention, gets a lot of buzz with it, obviously, what kind of position does that put mitt romney in? because she's not going to go in there lighthearted with any kind of moderate views. i mean, she is going to be there to bend the party even further to the right, and that's exactly where mitt romney doesn't want to be. >> well, look, if she gets a substantial role, and i can't believe she will, you run the danger that we saw with pat buchanan in 1992. he spoke on the same night as ronald reagan at the '92 republican convention. he gave a sulfurous, angry hateful speech.

it blew reagan sort out of attention and really hurt george h.w. bush's campaign. i can't believe they would let her speak in primetime. on the other hand, wherever she speaks, she can do damage now because the way we cover conventions, if she speaks at 1:00 in the afternoon, she says something incendiary, you can bet that that night when the networks go on the air, they're going to show it. >> well, when it comes to right-wing talkers, i wonder if she's going to be able to outdo rand paul and rick santorum who are also going to get podium time. how is that lineup going to be handled by romney when it comes to trying to get independents? >> well, i think that's the afternoon follies. they're not going to let those folks in primetime. if they do, they're crazy. but i think they think they have to let santorum speak. they have to let rand paul speak because they're trying to get ron paul to stay on the reservation. look, romney is in a lot of trouble. in my view, he's lost the summer. he's had a dreadful summer. he's got a 37/52 approve/disapprove in the pew poll. he's going to try to cobble together every element of the base he can to keep himself viable in this presidential

election. >> can he turn it around in 90 days? >> going to be very tough. you know, i mean your earlier segment on those tax returns, i mean, you take his tax returns, you take his tax plan. you know, he's going to maybe get a bounce out of the convention, although tt's not assured. but it's not going to deal with his underlying problems. right now, he looks like a guy who is not only sort of out of touch with people, but in many ways out of his depth. he just can't handle this process. >> bob shrum, always great to have you on "the ed show." thanks so much. >> thanks, ed. the romney campaign is misleading folks about early voting. congresswoman betty sutton weighs in next from ohio. and president obama is attacking mitt romney's backwards tax plan. meanwhile, mitt is fighting back with baloney? our panel will weigh in on the tax debates. stay tuned, we're coming right back.

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welcome back to "the ed show." last night on the broadcast, we told you about the controversy erupting over early voting in ohio. a controversy over early voting, really? a republican backed law is restricting early voting for ohio voters with the exception of members of the military. rather clever, don't you think? well, the obama campaign is trying to fight the restrictive law. they want early voting to be widely available for all ohioans. for military and nonmilitary voters and the campaign has filed a federal lawsuit. the romney campaign is jumping into the fray and misleading folks around the country, especially in ohio, into

thinking that the obama campaign wants to disenfranchise soldiers from voting. here's the candidate himself. >> any effort to impede the right of our military members overseas or here domestically in voting would be an extraordinary violation of the trust that we should have for those who serve so valiantly. >> can i call time-out for a moment? think about this. mitt romney and the romney campaign, the candidate himself, is claiming that president obama, the president of the united states, any president of the united states, would be trying to disenfranchise people who put on the uniform to defend this country, do months of deployments around the world, ah, president obama really doesn't want them to have the chance to early vote. are you kidding me? and here is the crux of the story that i just cannot believe. there are 15 military groups, including amvets, that have intervened in the campaign's lawsuit because they're with mitt romney. efforts to facilitate and

maximize military voting should be welcomed, not viewed with constitutional suspicion. oh, the obama campaign agrees with the military groups on this account. an official with them told "the ed show" they welcome the veterans groups as interveners. they do not agree with all of the issues they raise in the brief, but they do believe not only should active military be able to access early voting, all registered voters should as well. now, how can these military groups side with mitt romney thinking it's not good for all americans, the folks in ohio, to have access to early voting? the fact that the obama campaign is glad to have them involved in the suit proves that they are not out to disenfranchise members of the military. they want early access for all registered voters. once again, the romney campaign is trying to hoodwink a bunch of americans. i'm joined tonight by congresswoman betty sutton of

ohio. congresswoman, i don't know how else to put it, but these military groups have their heads screwed on wrong. they're right wing and taking the bait from the romney camp. what are your thoughts on this? >> i think what romney is doing is wrong. to try and politicize our veterans or our military groups and lead them down a path that politifact check, the nonpartisan group, has called false, is just outrageous. i mean, we want everyone to be able to vote. and, of course, we want our active military, and of course we want our veterans. but we also want our firefighters and our police officers and working families. we should be working to make the vote available to everybody and make it easier for people to cast those ballots that are military fights to protect for them to do. >> i think the republicans are nervous after the measure two vote went the way it did, when it came to the collective bargaining and how the get out to vote effort was absolutely

mammoth in the state of ohio by the democrats. i think they're nervous about that. is this an effort by republicans to suppress the democratic vote? >> well, i think it's pretty clear. we have seen this going on across the country, and certainly, there's no place that is more, you know, more in play than ohio. we are often called the swing state. and so we have seen these efforts, we saw it with issue two, senate bill five, an attack on our working families, firefighters, police officers, and other public workers. indeed, an attack on the middle class. they were trying to stack the deck against them. take them away from the bargaining table. and beat back their rights, and of course, the people, as you point out, came out in droves. every fair-minded ohioan, it wasn't just labor that came together. it was all of us. and i think that they are concerned. when we can get the word out, when we can cut through the noise and the distractions just like this one, that they're

trying to create, trying to pit people against each other. active duty military versus other folks. veterans versus other folks. it's not right. we should be working to make it easier to vote. >> you use the term fair minded. quickly, where does governor john kasich stand on this? >> well, you know, i'll let governor john kasich speak for himself, but i saw where he stood against our working families when he supported the passage of senate bill 5 and the people spoke up. i'm hoping he will see the light and others will see the light, that, frankly, 93,000 ohioans voted in those days in 2008. >> sure. >> we need to make sure they have access to those polls. >> and these military groups, these veteran groups that are lining up with the romney camp, i wonder if they know what they're doing. i think they're just idealogically bent to support a republican any way, and it's helping romney mislead the public on exactly what is coming

down with the story. congresswoman betty sutton thanks for your time tonight. >> thank you, ed. a lot more coming up in the next half hour of "the ed show." stay with us. >> it's like robin hood in reverse. >> president obama slams romney on his bogus tax plan. and mitt fights back with sandwich meat. >> my bologna has a first name. it's o-s-c-a-r. >> the panel will weigh in on mitt romney's laundry list of problems. and romney tries and fails again to seem normal. you don't want to miss mitt romney's latest out of touch moment. and the romney campaign cooks up a welfare whopper. msnbc's jonathan alter is here with the latest. [ female announcer ] with swiffer dusters, a great clean doesn't have to take longer. i'm done... i'm going to read one of these. i'm going to read one of these!

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he'd ask the middle class to

pay more in taxes so that he could give another $250,000 tax cut to people making more than $3 million a year. it's like robin hood in reverse. it's romney hood. >> that is the money sound bite this week. welcome back to "the ed show." president obama obviously hitting mitt romney on his reverse robin hood tax plan. the president was talking about a nonpartisan tax policy center study that found romney's tax plan would predominantly favor upper income taxpayers. the report shows that taxpayers with incomes over $1 million would see an average tax cut of $175,000. middle class families with children would pay on average $2,000 more in taxes. and taxpayers earning less than $30,000 a year would get an average tax increase of about $130. here's how mitt romney described the factual attacks on his tax policy earlier today.

>> we've been watching the president say a lot of things about me and about my policies and they're just not right. and if i were to coin a term, it would be obama-loney. he's serving up a dish which is simply in contradiction of the truth. and it relates to everything about how i'm going to help the middle class to tax policy. he's just simply saying things that are not accurate. >> for more, let's turn to joy reid, managing editor, radio talk show host mark simone, and keli goff. great to have you with us tonight. mark, let me ask you, if mitt romney is going to claim that president obama is lying about his plan, why doesn't he release the specifics to prove that he's lying about the plan? >> that's a very good question. now, this tax foundation study is totally flawed. it's based on nothing. they have made up details that don't exist. without getting into the weeds, if you go to jennifer reuben in "the washington post," it's a

pretty good breakdown, and she asked a great question, why department they just call the romney campaign and ask them to fill in the details other than make up assumptions? >> he comes out saying the president is lying without giving specifics. rather vague, isn't it? >> we're in the middle of a campaign. you're supposed to exaggerate. if the original campaign was hope and change, then four years later it's character assassination and class warfare, you got to wonder how successful was the first term? >> i'm not a part of the pam. i'm just the moderator on this program. all we're asking for is his taxes and the details on his tax plan. >> how are you supposed to call the romney campaign for details when they say they're going to release details later about their plan, so that would make it tough to get the details now. and the other thing, this is turning rather silly. right? i mean, it's like president obama sings, governor romney sings. they have a sing-off. it's sort of like turning into one of those desperate bad reality dating shows like you make out with him in a hot tub. i'm going to do you one better and make out with him in a fantasy resort. i mean these are people running for the highest office in the

land and this is what it's come down to obama-loney and romney hood. >> i think the problem is, one thing is a quip. the reason it's sort of the romney hood slam on romney worked is because it's playing on something people believe to be true. that mitt romney wants to cut taxes on the rich by raising taxes on the middle class. that's something that the tax policy study found out that people believe. what is obama-loney supposed to even mean? it's almost like if they were playing the dozens and romney's mama's joke was like your mom is a woman. and not very nice. it doesn't work. and it's not witty. i don't even understand what it means. >> nobody's tax is going to be raised. everyone gets a 20% tax cut. >> he's doing the same thing with the tax cut as he's doing with his own taxes. he's saying, just trust me, there's nothing bad here but i'm not going to tell you what my plan is. >> i think he's fine with the raks returns. he released the same amount as john mccain. >> no, he didn't. >> he has a second year coming out. >> no, no, no. john mccain in the senate released every year. as long as he was in the senate, every campaign, he released them all by the time he ran for

president, he released two years and that was just to catch up. but the number of returns and disclosure on john mccain far exceeds anything we have gotten from mitt romney. >> same as ronald reagan. you know what's funny in all of this? >> same as ronald reagan? >> released one year. >> well, wait a minute now. the standard was set by mitt romney's dad here. i mean certainly more than two years is needed, especially with 2008 and 2009. >> actually that was an exception because after that there were very few releases. ford didn't release. most presidents haven't released. >> john mccain released far more than mitt romney has. >> yeah, but let me ask you this -- if that's important? >> wait a minute, you need to tell me i'm correct on that. >> you're correct on that. >> you're wrong on that? i'm wrong, you're correct. >> if you think it's important for a public leader, why do you allow reid, pelosi, to refuse to release tax returns. when romney ran against kennedy, believe it or not, he used this as an issue. ted kennedy refused to release his tax returns. >> they'll be held to a different standard a. and we should say for the record, john mccain released

more and has a lot less wealth. >> i don't know about that. >> i don't think we understand where the wealth came from. >> ten kennedy had as much wealth as anybody and refused to ever release any tax returns. >> you asked what obama-loney means. it means the romney campaign is seeing the same polls i have seen and other people have seen that shows in swing states, his tax plan is not landing. in swing states, people actually do believe that $250,000 is a lot of money and they want to see those people pay more in taxes. >> and more importantly, romney is running in part on a plan to tax americans in a way that we understand what helped him in his own social class and that's why it's relevant and we understand how ronald reagan got rich, he was in the movies. >> he worked for it. >> you got them paying 38% of the tax. what tax do you think they should pay? >> i think a lot of people in the 1% would disagree. >> what do you think they should pay? >> go back to the old rates at 39.6% where we created 22 million jobs. it has been done and we can do it again, and we have to fix the treasury. >> huge but there.

that was under clinton's first term where things didn't go that well. it was in the second term that they went well and they cut capital gains taxes. is that what we're for now? >> wait a minute now. if you take the eight years of 22 million jobs created, when the tax rate was at 38.6%, the fact of the matter is we have been down that road before. when i'm answering your questions, giving you a direct answer, if you ask exactly what do you think they should pay, you got the number. >> but, remember, the bulk of the job creations and all that was in the second term of clinton and he had dramatically cut capital gains tax which helps spur a lot of growth. >> let's get back to, if i may, why doesn't romney offer specifics on where president obama is lying to the american people about his tax plan? >> well, i agree he should do that and i also agree he should fill in those details. that's why you make it easy for a tax foundation to make up details. he should fill them in. and he's got to do that. >> i should also point out that it's a tax foundation that romney has in the past embraced. and called nonpartisan. >> and let's also point out that his favorite

tax plan was ron paul's. i don't know how seriously you can take them. >> oh, lord. >> great to have you with us tonight. thank you. coming up, mitt romney makes another failed attempt to act like a normal guy. you won't believe what he told reporters at the hardware store. we'll bring you romney's latest out-of-touch moment next.

coming up, middle class mitt strikes out again. details of his hardware store mishap next. and to the big finish, the romney campaign's new ad claims that president obama is gutting welfare. could be the biggest lie to date. msnbc political analyst jonathan alter weighs in. don't forget, you can listen to my radio show on sirius xm radio channel 127 monday through friday, noon to 3:00 and on progressive talk stations around the country. follow me on twitter at ed show and like "the ed show" on facebook. we'll be right back. erectile dn that could be a question of blood flow. erectile dn cialis for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready.

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is he that far out of touch with what the american people are feeling? the answer is yes. yeah, he is. >> welcome back to "the ed show."

now, get that. the guy who dodges taxes with offshore bank accounts, has the nerve to call president obama out of touch, but unfortunately for mitt, he can't seem to go a week without letting his true colors just shine. mitt romney tried to act like the guy next door, normal guy, regular guy on monday in new hampshire with his shopping list in hand. the candidate spent the morning running errands. he paid a visit to the local hardware store and had to say this about his purchase. >> governor, what did you buy? >> hardware stuff. >> hardware stuff? you buy hardware stuff? nobody buys hardware stuff. why didn't he show us what he bought? any nails, hammers in there, wood, screwdrivers? not hardware stuff. just kind of vernacular, it's kind of goofy, isn't it? this isn't romney's first out of touch moment. he has a long history of letting the real unemployed millionaire out of the bag.

>> i tell you what, 10,000 bucks? $10,000 bet? >> i get speakers fees from time to time, but not very much. ann drives a couple of cadillacs actually. >> i'm not sure about these cookies. they came from the local -- >> bakery. >> -- 7-eleven bakery or wherever. >> i'm not concerned about the very poor. >> corporations of people, my friend. >> i should also tell my story. i'm also unemployed. >> the library is quite thick here on "the ed show" when it comes to finding out exactly what mitt romney has said foot in mouth, if you know what i mean. they've got 90 days to turn this around. if they are good at the image business, we're going to find out. i don't know how he's going to do it. he's just not the regular guy. his next fund-raiser will be in iowa at a country club that was built with public funds. go figure. tonight in our survey, i asked do you think people as rich as mitt romney ever pay their share

of fair taxes? 5% say yes. 95% say no. coming up, romney's welfare whopper. find out why his newest attack ad could be romney's biggest lie, i mean his biggest lie so far. [ male announcer ] it seems like every company has a facebook page these days. but where's the relationship status? well, esurance is now in a relationship...with allstate. and it looks pretty serious. esurance. click or call. it's time to get going.

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to the big finish tonight. it's mitt romney's biggest lie so far. the romney campaign launched a brand-new attack ad this morning. it claims president obama is gutting welfare.

romney says people won't have to work under a new federal policy. the government will just send a check to them. nearly every major news organization is now reporting that romney's new ad is simply not true. in fact, romney has actually been pushing for this exact policy change. he and several other republican governors asked the federal government for more flexible, flexible welfare rules back in 2005. the obama administration is now giving governors what they ask for, more power and more flexibility in granting assistance. greg sergeant of "the washington post" talked to two republican governors who are taking advantage of president obama's policy change. the governors of both utah and nevada refuse to comment on romney's new ad, but both confirm the new policy will not weaken work requirements. in other words, romney's ad is a blatant lie. but romney is not backing down. he claims bill clinton is on his side. >> i think president clinton would be surprised to see that

the legislation that he and republicans agreed upon to put work into welfare is now going to be waived, that work requirement, by virtue of a president who has a very different view about welfare than i think bill clinton and republicans did some years ago. >> romney is either lying or he's misinformed. former president bill clinton is not surprised at all. in fact, a clinton spokesman said president obama's new policy is consistent with policies enacted in the 1990s. the former president is giving the plan his blessing. looks like mitt romney got it all wrong again. joining me tonight is jonathan alter, msnbc political analyst and columnist for bloomberg view. great to have you with us. why is the romney campaign telling one lie after another? i mean, we just ran a story last night and also tonight on the ohio voting and now this. what's going on here? >> well, they are starting to realize that an economic message

alone is not going to get them to the white house. so they need to do some other things, and getting people to think that barack obama is soft on dependency and that he just wants to give a bunch of money to poor people helps them solidify, they think, a base. but the problem, ed, is that the ad is simply untrue. and i say that as somebody who is a very strong supporter of welfare reform in the '90s. a time when a lot of liberals didn't like it, and i think the obama administration made a mistake in putting some of those liberal opponents of welfare reform in important positions in the department of health and human services which aroused suspicions including on my part that maybe they really were weakening welfare reform. but when you actually look at the memo that the department put out, when you actually examine the evidence in this case, they

are not doing anything to weaken the work requirement, much less gut welfare reform. >> why would he rope bill clinton into this? >> well, because clinton is right in the ad because he's trying to drive a wedge between clinton and obama, to say to a certain kind of voter who liked clinton, clinton wasn't as liberal as obama is. the problem is, you know, as politicians used to say, there's not a dime's worth of difference between bill clinton and barack obama on the issues. but it's important to the romney campaign to make it seem like barack obama is this wild-eyed lefty who wants to end welfare reform and put everybody back on the dole. problem, as i said, is it just ain't so. >> romney's been criticized by members of his own party for creating the car ownership program while he was governor of massachusetts. will this welfare ad backfire on him? >> you know, it's a little hard

to tell because there's a lot of what are called low-information voters. and this was a huge buy that romney made. i read today -- i haven't confirmed this -- that it's as much as 50% of their buy in battleground states. they're putting a lot of chips on this welfare ad, which is very misleading. and they're trying to use, the same way they used hillary, remember, there were some earlier ads where they used hillary against obama. >> uh-huh. >> now they're trying to use bill against obama, and bill is going to have to straighten it out at the democratic convention. >> what is president obama's best move here? the obama campaign, what's their best move here? >> i actually think because there's so much money behind this ad, it's not just a cable news kerfuffle, that i think that the president should go public and he should make a public statement and say that this is a complete distortion of what he's actually done and maybe even get, you know -- >> so all these organizations scoring it as something that is really a falho