one more. >> brad on twitter, saying hoping obama eats at his deli, i would use the business. >> "morning joe" up now. is tim" welcome, everybody. it's thursday, august 9th. joe and i are joined this morning by msnbc and "time" magazine senior political analyst mark halperin, what is so funny? >> coughing. >> you all right there? okay. >> fur ball. >> kitty cat. national affairs editor for "new york" magazine and msnbc political analyst john heilemann and contributor to "the daily beast" and vice chair of the consulting firm hill and notten, good to have you on board this morning. think we may have started a firestorm yesterday. hello, joe. >> how are you doing?

it is a mess throughout. >> yeah. >> in citizens united land. what a mess. >> deserve the firestorm. >> it deserves a firestorm. everyone is shooting themselves in the foot so to speak. why don't we say it. >> stepping on their own tails. yes. say it. what is going on there. this guy, we don't -- we don't know this guy. wait a second. we did the briefing three months ago with a guy on the phone. it's just a mess and then the romney people, they have the chance to -- and then they and it's just -- >> painful. >> what do we say was like a fourth grade student council contest. >> no that would be more interesting. >> i think that den grates fourth graders from across america so i apologize, i apologize. >> let's lay this out for folks. the controversy that we're talking about is from the political ad from the pro obama super pac, priorities usa. now, obviously, the obama campaign is not allowed to be

legally involved but the spot released this week which they apparently had no idea about, essentially links mitt romney to a woman's cancer-related death. the man in the ad named joe soptic explains after bain capital shut down the steel plant where he worked he lost his job, his health insurance and then he lost his wife to cancer. and for many, the ad seems to imply a cause and effect relationship. the obama re-election campaign has insisted that they were not familiar with the man's story in the ad. obama deputy campaign manager stefphanie cutter said yesterda, quote, i don't know the facts about when mr. soptic's wife got sick or the facts about his health insurance. we'll stop right there. >> mika, i hate to interrupt on the news. >> i know. that's all right. >> i don't interrupt. it's not my thing. >> i know. >> but if they didn't know, they didn't know, so let's just move

on. >> i kind of can't. >> she said they didn't know. >> they don't know. >> no, they know. >> what's this all about? >> they know. >> here's the problem. >> but wait, they said they didn't know. just yesterday. >> not supposed to know. >> this guy, really, he probably -- where did he come from? they don't know him. joe who? we know a couple joes. joe biden and joe the plummer but not this joe, right? >> we know "morning joe." >> joe thiesmann, "morning joe." >> joe cooker. >> joe cocker and joe frazier. we like joe. but they don't know -- not this joe guy. >> example of what a joke this system is by the way. >> they don't know this guy. >> all right. politico points out -- threlet explain this. the man's story should have been familiar to the obama campaign, stephanie cutter herself hosted an obama campaign conference call in may in which the man told the very story featured in

the priorities ad. the obama campaign went on to feature mr. soptic in its own tv ad earlier this spring. here yeah -- >> wait. mika, i don't understand. wait. >> because all these guys know what the super pacs are doing on both sides. they know what the super pacs are doing and probably approve the ads. come on. this is a joke. >> mark halperin, i'm confused, stephanie cutter says they don't know the story but she hosted -- i don't get this. what did she host three months earlier? >> press conference call. >> just stop it, everybody. >> to go over the facts. >> what does this mean? this is so -- come on. come on. it's -- >> it's really embarrassing. >> unbelievable. >> the only issue is they're not denouncing the content of the ad. there's no problem with featuring the same guy in an ad for the campaign -- >> they can say the ad is a low blow, the ad is unfair, went too

far but instead they made it very clear they knew everything about the ad. >> but hold on a second, john heilemann. it's not just that they aren't denouncing the ad that says mitt romney killed a woman when, in fact, there was no direct nexus between him losing his job and her losing her insurance and cancer and everything else, there's a serious problem about the obama white house saying they knew nothing about this guy, they don't know his story, when, in fact, three months ago he was on their own ad and while we're talking about it for people out in, you know, middle america who don't know how close bill burton was and is to robert gibbs and to barack obama and the obama white house, this is an absolute farce. this is like mitt romney running all of those super pacs during the republican primary saying oh i've got nothing to do with that and, in fact, it was all of his former associates running those

super pac ads. this is a scam and i can't believe the white house is allowing themselves to be lowered into this arena. >> they certainly don't need to. sort of depressing. >> it certainly is a -- certainly hurts your credibility to be caught in an -- in saying something that's an outright falsehood and in this case it seems pretty clear that they misrepresented their -- themselves, the ads speak for themselves and it's bad. i think the broader point that you both -- that joe you just made, mika you're making earlier, look, both the super pacs on both sides are stocked with people who are former associates, staffers, long-time consig lee arearies to the candidates and whether there's correlation to that meets the legal definition, the notion that these guys are not on the same wave length mentally and working off the same sheets of

research, is a little bit absurd. >> i think both sides are, mark mckinnon, equally guilty for whatever -- >> sure. >> but what seemed so hallow yesterday, it's one thing, maybe we blind sided gibbs in the morning and he hadn't seen the ad and didn't know the details and you could possibly stretch, possibly believe that he didn't know the details. >> well -- >> well, i don't know the details. >> you gave him the details. >> later in the day, stephanie cutter, jay carney, don't know the details and separate themselves from this like as if separating themselves is just fair enough to say, the ad is good. no. just say the ad is no good. >> citizens united so corrupted the process. the ad is wrong, it's indefensible and the problem as mark pointed out, the real problem about this, there's no price to pay. nobody is paying a price. if you don't pay a price it gets worse and worse where people are lying left and right and the public believes nothing.

>> no price to pay because they can say i don't know the details. at least on this show that's just not going to pass. they're not telling the truth. >> take a position once you know the facts. >> they're not telling the truth. joe is that fair? >> the fact is, they know the facts. robert gibbs is a bright guy. he knew what was going on when he was on yesterday morning. don't tell me that he -- he and bill burton, who were inseparable during the 2008 campaign, don't tell me that he didn't know the facts. don't tell me that jay carney didn't know the facts. and stephanie cutter, of course. these are all people we know. these are all people we like. these are all people who are being told to do something that's making them look bad, making their white house look bad, making their president look bad. and i think it's a real mistake. >> i think that -- at least where we differ is that i would give gibbs the benefit of the doubt of not having seen it but when you saw it say that's going

too far. here's one good point you could be trying to make in that ad but the bottom line is we wouldn't put out that ad. that's going too far. >> yeah. everybody around the table knows that gibbs and cutter -- >> i'm not going to accuse them of being in cahoots with bill burton. >> no, but everybody knows they aren't their own people. they're speaking for a white house. they are speaking for a president. and they are being told what to say before they go out and have -- and giving their briefings. i don't know who's instructing them to not tell the truth. but whoever it is, is not -- is doing a disservice not only to them, but to the campaign and to the president himself. >> yeah. >> this is so shortsighted and stupid, that i can't believe that an organization that is this good, has allowed themselves to be caught in such petty lies over the past 24

hours. move on. i just -- i don't get it. >> there are a number of reports now that are questioning the facts behind the ad. for example, it turns out this gentleman's wife had died in 2006, years after the steel plant was shut down. it's been revealed that soptic's wife had her own employee sponsored insurance for at least a year after he was laid off. a question of whether mitt romney was in charge of day-to-day decisions at bain capital when the steel plant closed. romney claims he left in 1999 to lead the olympics in salt lake city. last night the co-founder of priorities usa, we've been talking about them, bill burton, know him well, said he absolutely stood by the ad and its timeline. >> the point of this ad is that, you know, it's to tell the story of one guy, joe soptic and the impact on his life that happened for years and to this day as a result of decisions that mitt romney made. what we're saying is that joe

soptic was fired from his job and as a result of that, he wasn't able to get -- he wasn't about to hold on to health care benefits promised to him and as a result when his wife got sick he didn't have health care. >> his wife was diagnosed six years after mitt romney effectively left bain capital, effectively left '99. >> the ceo until 2002. >> in '99 went to run the olympic games -- >> most people think when yer au the ceo you're responsible for the decisions of that organization. >> he was the ceo, the sole shareholder he's responsible for the decisions that were made. >> you know, mika, nobody's buying what bill burton is saying for good reason. it's indefensible the facts don't line up. mark halperin, in this very preers have political world in which we live, is this a good career move for bill burton whose priorities usa super pac will be now flooded by millions

of dollars from contributors who don't want to be bothered with facts? it happens on the right, joe wilson says shut up to the president or "you lie" to the president, he makes lots of money, michele bachmann says crazy things and gets millions of dollars. is this a case where bill burton will be rewarded for peddling something that's blatantly false. >> it might go the other way, though. hats off to our friends at cnn, wolf blitzer and his colleagues who welcomed bill burton into "the situation room" and give him an extended nothinging over two seg -- flogging over two segments. it was great. the biggest worry on the democratic side to the top of the white house, is the republican super pacs and they want their super pac to be raising lots of money. it's possible this flap will cause some more people to give. i think it's equally likely a lot of rich democrats will say, this isn't the kind of ad we want our money to go towards and it could hurt their

fund-raising. particularly because leaving aside the factual problems because most of the ads right now have factual problems, associating mitt romney with killing a woman is something that i think for a lot of people will cross a line in a way that again people may not want to give to that super pac, whatever fear the president has about how important it is to be competitive on that front. >> you can just react if you were asked to the ad, you know, like we all did and there are many aspects of the ad that are too far, that are over the edge and i don't know why anybody in the white house can't say that. i don't understand. it -- it really hurts to watch heilemann? >> i just echo what mark said. you know, i spent a lot of time going around and talking to wealthy democrats who in this city particularly, many of whom gave a lot of money to the president in 2008, many of whom are not giving as much money this time, have been approached by priorities usa, they're in private equity n wall street,

hedge fund, we like president obama better than mitt romney but we don't think mitt romney is the devil and part of our concern giving money to the super pac is first of all our names will be disclosed and second of all we'll be linked to ads that denonize a guy who we don't want to be president, but who we don't think is the devil incarnate. i hear that over and over again from multimillion air democratic donors who have held back on giving money to bill burton's group out of precisely a fear for this thing. some money will come in because of this but there's -- there are some other people who i think -- mark is right. it will amplify their fear and cause them to hold back. >> joe, i think you nailed it when you said the system is perverted. it really is. it has been perverted. >> it is. we'll see what happens with the super pac, whether bill and priorities will get more money after this happens, but i think john makes a great point. we've all talked to democrats,

people who have never given to republicans before, very, very wealthy wall street types, and they've had this hess tansy that john is talking about and they didn't want their money used in this type of commercial and now, not only have we had this type of commercial that's attacking private equity, but it's twisting the facts to such a degree that it's now accusing private equity of killing a woman. and even though the facts don't line up, i think it does, i think it reinforces all the worst suspicions about the democratic super pacs that these loyal democrats are concerned about, and it could cause them real problems moving forward. but yesterday wasn't just a tough day for democrats. >> no, it wasn't. >> there are a lot of -- there were a lot of conservatives yesterday that saw the events of the day and the way they unfolded and the way they played

out, as further example of the fact that mitt romney is just not ready for prime time. >> and that the campaign is still about nothing. despite the furor aimed at democrats over the controversial priorities usa ad, the romney campaign has once again seemingly failed to capitalize on a political opportunity. during an interview yesterday, romney campaign spokeswoman andrea sol explained if joe soptic the guy in the commercial and his wife had lived in massachusetts, they would have benefited from mitt romney's individual health care mandate. >> obviously it's unfortunate when anyone loses their job. this particular case was a plant that was closed years after governor romney left the company and to that point, you know, if, you know, if people had been in massachusetts under governor romney's health care plan they would have had health care. there are a lot of people losing their jobs and health care, and

president obama's economy, and, you know, that's why governor romney's running to get people back to work. >> okay. some influential republicans were quick to react. editor of red state.com, eric ericsson tweeted this, omg, this might just be the moment mitt romney lost the election. mark mckinnon? >> i think that's a little hyperbolic. >> to that sound bite. help me out here. what went on there? >> well, this has to do with heilemann's got the full history on this, but eric ericsson and a lot of other conservatives don't want to see mitt romney going back and defending a health care plan and they want to get away from that and wish he had disputed it before and this is going the wrong direction on it. just reminds me how tough it is to be a spokesperson and a governor i once worked for said i can get people to say that about me for free. >> joe? >> it was a terrible mistake.

we all around the table know andrea, like her, like we like bill burton an awful lot. that was just an absolutely terrible mistake. first of all, you don't argue facts that are false in the first place. i mean, why is she talking about if joe whatever was living in massachusetts he would -- no. why are you saying that? the ad is false. >> yeah. >> say the ad is false. >> and move on and by the way -- >> talk about how you -- >> talk about how you disappointed in the fact that they're launching these false ads, make that a part of the interview and then pivot to jobs. >> you know what i was thinking, joe? >> there was a terrible mistake. >> thinking yesterday during the conversation with gibbs and it kept going, i was thinking to myself, i was embarrassed for them, but even more so, like when are we going to -- this is stupid. now we have to follow up. now we have to follow up and say

you really don't know about this? we have to call you -- because, you know, you could blame it on the media but i don't. it's our responsibility to call out something that seems like at the very least, hypocrisy if not something more. but my god, just say the ad -- haven't seen the ad, looking at the ad, that looks like it's a little unfair but here's what this is -- the campaign is about. >> the broader problem, most political ads have factual problems. that's just -- that's an assertion now, that's a fact that most political ads have factual problems. >> it's a big story. >> the broader problem, the public believes nothing and have every right to. >> and, you know, the reason why we're talking about this stuff, which makes absolutely -- it's so small, is because -- you can go through the robert gibbs interview yesterday where we tried for about ten minutes to figure out what barack obama was going to do over the next four years, to turn the economy around.

and we got a whole bunch of nothing. and we kept pressing him and he was indignant, what do you mean, education, we like education. and went on and on. it's the same thing, same complaints i have with mitt romney and i talk about it in a politico column this morning, that this is, mika, and continues to be the campaign about nothing. now if you're actually talking about policies that are going to turn the economy around over the next four years, or dramatic policies that may not but at least we get the debates started that's where the debate will lie. because neither one of these candidates are talking about the future, this is a type of political discourse we have. it's just -- it's depressing. >> it is. go ahead, heilemann. >> look, just we lost a little focus on andrea saul and what the problem is there i think. >> good point. >> i think that there's -- that what mark said is right, there's no question that a lot of people on the right who believe that governor romney should have repudiated massachusetts health care plan because they saw that there was going to be a problem

for him down the line, that he was going to be in this position of having to argue -- have his arm tied behind his back trying to attack obama care if he didn't walk away from his own bill. >> right. >> this now -- i can't imagine that barack obama in a debate when asked about health care will not at some point say, you know, your spokeswoman said that if this woman had been living in massachusetts she would have been covered. that's what we're trying to do with obama care, the same kinds of guaranteed health care coverage you have in massachusetts is across the country and governor romney why do you want to preel the law we put in -- repeal the law we put in place to effectively extend romney care to all citizens. that's where -- what the political long-term damage of what andrea saul says lies. >> i think andrea's remark was a stray random remark people are blowing up. what it illustrates look at the harry reid thing and this new priorities usa ad almost no democrat of any significance has

spoken out against either of those things. look at what happened when andrea saul said this, rush limbaugh, ann coulter and eric ericsson go crazy. the romney campaign does not have the same hold on their loud voices as the president's team does. that's an advantage for the president. >> coming up, former presidential candidate newt gingrich. also u.s. ambassador to the united states susan rice and foreign policy advertiser to the romney campaign dan senor. up next the top stories in the politico playbook. first bill karins with a check on the forecast. there is some good news for the country there, bill. >> there's definitely good news and it's even starting this morning in areas like indiana. i think we hit the peak of our drought and summer heat wave and starting to watch cooler air moving down from canada. we not only have one but two cold fronts on the map and haven't seen this since late may, early june. the first cold front has settled down south of kansas city, with the reinforcing shots coming down from the northern plains. who's getting the wet weather right now?

thankfully the skies have opened up over indianapolis between one to two inches has already fallen, more rain than they've seen in the last three months. we're also watching some of the rain now heading to central portions of ohio where it's going to be a wet day today. it's too late for the corn crops i've been told, but some of the soybean crops could benefit from this cooler period of weather and wet weather in the flex couple days. unfortunately, with this cold front will come some severe storms today from memphis to little rock through the ohio valley and then tomorrow, as that cold front heads for the east coast, we could see strong thunderstorms right through all the big cities of the mid-atlantic down into the carolinas. we'll watch a stormy period for the next three days. today isolated storms in the northeast. the airports shouldn't be too much of an issue. you're watching "morning joe" on this thursday, we're brewed by starbucks.

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live look at the white house at 26 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." joining us with a look at politico's morning playbook is jonathan martin. where is that undecided voter you ask? jonathan? >> there are very, very few of them. we have a story by reid epstein, it depends on what poll you look at, but uniformly the amount of undecided voters is something like less than 10%, some folks have it at 6%, others polls 8. less than 10% of americans are undecided. and this is why you see the two campaigns trying to do, you know, turnout rather than persuasion, trying to get their folks amped up and turned out because the universe of undecideds is very, very small and also, when you hear folks

talk about well, this could be like 1980, for example, where reagan is tied up with carter somewhat and then emerges in the fall to win some huge landslide, probably not going to happen this time because the pool of undecided voters, of gettable voters is smaller now than it was then. we are in an era of locked in political demographics where both sides are fighting over very, very small group of voters. >> are you saying those extremes, mark? >> yeah, absolutely. i have a column in the daily beast today on this topic. the election today has very few undecided voters and this is a dramatic difference from what it was in years past as jonathan pointed out. for example, george h.w. bush when he ran had similar numbers to romney but there were 22% undecided. it was a huge upside particularly for the convention, convention speech, the debates for undecided voters and i was -- i was really taken by the abc/"washington post" poll over

the last couple days that showed the small sliver of undecides as well. there's not that much upside which means maybe not much potential bounce out of the conventions or the convention speeches but it does make the convention speech more important. >> how so? >> well, because particularly when people are looking at ads, i think all the ads are lie -- they think all the ads are lying, so romney, really his last best chance to make a big impression will be his convention speech when people see him on the stage where joe talked about it yesterday, the three ms, and -- to give his vision, talk about mormonism, money, massachusetts. i added a third one, mission, talk about his vision not only for the country but republican party. i think we'll look at what happens after the convention speech but i think that is going to be a pivotal moment in this campaign. >> joe? >> mark, how does that line up, though, with your belief and my belief that had a strong independent candidate run this time we would have had a very exciting three-way race. if the undecided voters are

shrinking away, doesn't that argue that we are still a two-party system and it still is as powerful as ever? >> no. i think people are undecided, just because they're undecided doesn't mean they're happy with the choices they've got. i would argue that people aren't particularly happy with those choices. >> but that's happened before? >> sure it has. sure it has. but, you know, in this environment if we had a different option, if we had mike bloomberg or somebody else out there, i think that you would see a real split. >> andrea mitchell was saying yesterday, for some reason i found it to be -- that this is the worst campaign she's ever seen. that she's ever covered. ever. >> i didn't think so until this week but now i do. >> really? >> worst ever. wow. >> the other thing about -- >> that's -- >> to mark's point and joe's point there's still -- even in a big turnout year there's still a large chunk of the electorate that just doesn't vote. part of the appeal of a third-party or independent candidate you expand the

electora electorate, people that don't like democrats or republicans and would love a third option and are alienated from the system as it's currently -- >> the other part of the third party candidate, they elevate the debate. remember what ross perot did. >> these candidates have got to right the ship here and elevate the conversation. jonathan martin, thank you very much. >> thank you, mika. >> up next, a look at the morning papers including what could be a last stand for southern democrats. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] now you can swipe... scroll... tap... pinch... and zoom... in your car. introducing the all-new cadillac xts with cue. ♪ don't worry. we haven't forgotten, you still like things to push. [ engine revs ] the all-new cadillac xts has arrived,

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34 past the hour. time now to take a look at the morning papers. we'll start with the seattle times, the president of the susan g. komen for the cure foundation is resigning and founder nancy brinker is moving away from day-to-day management. many chapters of the organization suffered lower fund-raising numbers in the wake of a brief decision to cut funding to planned parenthood, remember that? joe? >> and "the wall street journal," is it the end of the white southern democrat? john barrow of augusta, georgia, the last one in the house of representatives and will face a tough condecember in november. barrow is coshare of the moderate blue dog coalition whose membership has plummeted from 52 members two years ago to

just 25 today. >> and from our parade of papers "the austin american statesman" ted cruz's headline role at the republican convention puts him on track for stardom in the party. since his primary win last week cruz has taken on the role as a surrogate for mitt romney. he faces democrat paul sadler in november know's general election, joe? >> and the "usa today," new technology will drastically change retail buying over the next five years. for instance, intel has now developed an lcd mirror that can show you how clothing looks on you, without you even having to try the clothes on? i don't believe it. >> analysts say soon, mika, big box stores like office depot, old navy and best buy will just become test centers for on-line purchases and that's already happening with places like best buy. people go check things out and then go to amazon and buy the

big screen tv. >> "the miami herald" harry potter books used to be extremely popular with inmates at the prison on guantanamo bay, but according to a civilian library on the base the "fresh prince of bell air" has become inmates new favorite. the tv show is so popular, he's ordered all six seasons which the detainees can view on flat screen televisions. the library -- so many things that are wrong with this story. the library holds about 28,000 books and videos. mostly in arabic, english and french. all right. i'm just leaving it there. up next, the editor of bloomberg businessweek josh tyrangiel joins us. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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all right. 40 past the hour. it's time to be back on the air now, john heilemann. are you all right there if what are you watching? >> jon stewart. >> joining us now the editor of bloomberg business week, josh tyrangiel, his interview with mitt romney is featured in the magazine's latest issue. how did it go? >> okay. >> yeah? >> i wouldn't say that he thrills at the opportunity to be interviewed for 20 minutes or so. >> like what did you get? >> well, it actually started very well. >> uh-huh. >> we are counter programming right now, doing an interview issue and giving people an opportunity to actually talk more than 140 characters more than a sentence at a time. we're giving people room to talk. >> great. >> some people took full advantage of it and others like the governor seemed to approach it warily. why he succeeded at business.

we started with the premise that you're telling people -- >> that's interesting. >> successful executive, i was a successful manager of the olympics and we asked him that and he gave almost an entirely -- all the credit to his dad and said as the youngest member of his family his dad took him out, showed him things he wouldn't have shown his other siblings, gave him the opportunity to actually watch someone manage something big both in good ways and bad ways, talked about being on the floor of uaw meetings in milwaukee and seeing antipathy toward his dad and warmed to that. i asked about what he enjoyed at bain, like what got him up out of bed and into the office. and he said the analytical problem of helping companies. he's very humble. it's not like people come to us because we're smarter than them in knowing what their company is about. they need analysis. he talked about problem solving. and i then asked him about the bain photo, the very famous bain picture. >> the money coming out of the pocket. >> we finally kind of have an

explanation of what's going on and what preceded that picture, not that they're money hungry guys imitating wall street with the cash with the pockets out of their hand the photo was taken at the moment they thought something was impossible they got $37 million in funding. so this company had been flej ling, didn't know what was going to happen. that was the picture they took to celebrate the fact of their funding and i said so it's a happy memory. originally my question was when you look back at it now does it make you happy or cringe? he said it doesn't make him cringe. it's a happy memory. >> that's a fair assessment. >> that's good stuff. >> good stuff. we transition a little bit. >> yeah. oh, good. uh-huh. and you went personal, right? tried to get behind -- how did it go? >> as you know you don't want to go too personal. >> but you want to know who he is. >> i asked him specifically what about mormonism creates so many leaders? >> good question. >> disproportionate number of

leaders for a growing religion, but small. then things began to roll a little bit and i don't know, i don't know how to answer that for you. talked about faith. it was a very -- i would say an elegant dodge of that specific question. we talked about policy and tried to pin him down on the specifics of what exactly he's going to cut. >> yeah. >> rather than getting specific he was rev laer to in the way he thinking and but then he -- things got moving. >> things got moving. >> he had to go, a little impatient with the questions. >> he high tailed it out of there when he asked about mormonism and personal stuff. >> yeah. john heilemann, i wanted to ask you about that. we've been talking about the three ms, the three things that romney doesn't want to talk about, mormonism, money specifically bain, and the third massachusetts. i think he's going to start talking about massachusetts. he'll probably get more comfortable with money as we move forward. sounds like he was in this interview.

but can you explain, can mark explain why he and his campaign still believe that mormonism, a faith that i see as a positive, because there are so many leaders that come out of this faith, who are good, strong, decent people. >> yep. >> good, decent people, why is it that they seem to see mormonism as a third rail for this campaign? >> i think there's personal and political issues in play, joe. i think one is, there are people, you know, in the world who are uncomfortable talking about deeply personal matters to them. it's clear that mormonism is a really important part, mitt romney is not just an average mormon. he's a very important figure in the modern mormonism and held a high position in the church. i think he is uncomfortable talking about it on some personal level, he's awkward about it. also political issues. mark and i and i think a lot of journalists have talked to pollsters, republican and democrat alike, about whether or not there is because of the

mysteries around mormonism and certain parts of the evangelical movement mormonism is reguarded as a cult, there's a political cost people perceive in romney's world and the republican party as being too closely associated with mormonism. they felt mormonism hurt them in the iowa caucuses in 2008 and still some concern that it could be -- that it could lose some votes if he became more closely associated with that. it would turn off some of their base. >> see, mark mckinnon, the reason i don't understand this concern mitt romney talking about mormonism is because when i was campaigning, if i knew somebody was a mormon i had their vote. if they were a conservative catholic i knew i had their vote. evangelical i had their vote. again, you look at mormon leaders, you look at mormons that come in and out of your life, mormons that are very active in republican politics. i just haven't been around that

many people in american politics that say, oh, he's a mormon i can't vote for him. in my world and in your world, in the conservative world, being a mormon is like being a member of the family politically. is it not? >> absolutely. republicans aren't going anywhere else. they're going to stick with mitt romney. this is where i see real upside opportunity. there's an opportunity at the convention for him to leech away the mystery of his mormonism background and talk about the great story of his missionary work, about his parents, you noifr know, a great story to tell about so much leadership comes from the mormon religion, so i see it as a lot of upside potential rather than a problem. >> let me read from your piece in t"the daily beast," mark, an josh, interested to see if there was anything in the interview that you felt that comes out of this, you say this about his convention speech, they're powerful tools, convention speeches, to bend the curve of

public opinion. i remember driving with george w. from his hotel to the convention to deliver his speech. i was being quiet trying to give him some space to get in the zone. suddenly i heard what i thought was the radio, and someone whistling the song "go tell it on the mountain" and i realized it was governor bush. amazinged i asked governor you're about to give the biggest speech of your life and seem more relaxed than i've seen you in months. and he said, i feel so confident about the speech revealing who i am and what i believe in, that i will happily live with the verdict of the voters either way because they will know who i am, what i stand for and who they are voting for. i haven't closed the door completely on romney. i expect i'm like a lot of voters in the middle of who are still waiting to see some signs of life, humanity, conviction, personality, biography, vision, just show me more than the one dimensional i'm not obama campaign we've seen so far. no pressure, mitt, but your

chances of winning the presidency may win entirely on the ability to stand and deliver in tampa. before we go to josh, joe, do you agree with that seems like that could be a pivotal moment for him. >> it has to be. i would love to hear mark's response, though. mark, compare what you saw in george w. bush to mitt romney. >> well, what i saw was a total ability to self-reveal and that's what he did in that speech and told me in the car. listen, i'm going to show everybody my soul and i'm willing to live with their verdict because they will know me. the question is, a lot of voters are asking like me, i want to know mitt romney, see that same self-reveal and i think he's got an opportunity to do that at the convention. i think there's huge upside for him to do it. >> both come from political families, both grew up in the spotlight. when you grow up in the spotlight you like the governor like governor bush live to show yourself off and no place to hide, i think governor romney is at a place he has to make a

decision, embrace and explain to people who he is, stands for, or is he really going to try to control what people see. the convention speech is the bell lap. it's the bell at the bell lap. for a lot of people not just for the staff, i think for us, too, we're ready. you know, it's the last chance you have to wipe the slate clean, introduce yourself again and begin that last 60-day sprint. i think the romney campaign knows they've had some mistakes. never going to admit mulligans but would like to take a few. this is his moment. mark's column is right. it is now time to come forward and reveal something. >> yeah. absolutely. and joe, you know, we were in their home, and i look at this list of things that you're looking for, signs of life, we saw humanity, we saw personality, we saw biography, i mean they are wonderful people. >> yeah. i hear it all the time. >> they are. >> it's a big -- >> they are. >> they can't fit the whole country in there. >> joe? >> they're wonderful people.

they're wonderful kids. as a father, and i know you're a mother, mika, you -- >> i'm in awe of ann romney. >> you begin judging people by their children. i hate to say it. you walk into a house, not so much if their children are bad because you go, well, everybody has problems, but you look at the romneys' kids they're extraordinary, young men, decent, they've done so well for themselves, you look at ann romney, wonderful, and you look at the romneys and their home and like i said before, this didn't happen by accident. >> no. >> he's got an incredible story to tell. he's -- let's face it, he's not comfortable as a politician. he's comfortable as a business man. he's comfortable inside the mormon church. he's comfortable as a father. he's comfortable as a husband. he's comfortable in almost all aspects of his life except the one that puts him at the center, dead center, of the biggest stage he will ever face. that is --

>> he's got to face it. >> running for president. >> the interview by the way, josh, is in the latest issue of "bloomberg business week" look forward to looking at that. thank you so much. coming up in a few minutes, newt gingrich joins the conversation. keep it right here on "morning joe." ♪ [music plays] ♪ [music plays] ♪ [music plays]

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up next, we'll bring in former presidential candidate newt gingrich to the conversation. why he's calling president obama the, quote, anti-clinton. also, romney foreign policy adviser dan senor joins the set. we're back in a moment. this happy couple used capital one venture miles

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will fight to keep it that way. my mom would have been 70 years old this year and my sister and i lost her to cancer when she was 52 years old. i often think about what might have happened if a doctor had caught her cancer sooner. or if she had been able to spend less time focusing on how she was going to pay her bills and more time on getting well. you know -- she is still with us. she's in a better place. i think about malia and sasha and think to myself, we're not going to have an america where they have fewer opportunities than somebody's sons. i don't want them having fewer choices than anybody's boys do. >> welcome back to "morning joe." joe and i are back with mark halperin, john heilemann, mark mckinnon still at the table and joining us on the set, former foreign policy to the bush

administration, now an adviser to the romney campaign, dan senor. very good to have you back on board. >> good to be with you. >> joe, the president i mean that's just -- that's a good place for him, denver, surrounded by women. that was a comfortable zone. >> i thought that was, obviously, they selected it for those reasons, he's lagging behind in the latest polls we showed yesterday, not by a lot, but a little bit in colorado. that's a president, comfortable on the stump talking about his mother, speaking in personal terms. i think that's what the voters are craving this year. they have two candidates who are cool and aloof and yesterday was a good moment for the president. >> it definitely was. mark halperin pointing out that some of the people they featured as well were perfect choices for that state. >> abortion rights is a huge part of any messaging by a democrat trying to win colorado in the statewide race or in an

electoral college contest and they brought in sandra fluke to help introduce the president and that's not a choice they'd make in that many other states but definitely for democrats a good choice in colorado. again, a very pro choice state on balance. you see other democrats michael bennett won a senate race running hard on abortion rights as well. >> dan senor, haven't seen you since your trip to europe. it's very nice to have you back on set. >> we really -- shall we say, had a heated debrief on the trip to israel around the set of "morning joe." >> really? >> like seven on one. >> oh. >> we wish you were here. like eight on one. it was a good discussion. >> stop with the self-pity. >> all right. >> speaker gingrich is joining us now. >> dan -- >> we were just sitting him down. want to jump in, joe? >> no. i said i thought dan, you did very well, seven on one. i thought from my vantage point, those were even odds. you beat back the seven liberals. >> senor handicap. >> like a scene from that movie "300." you were throwing liberals off

you left and right. all very inspiring. >> coming to "morning joe" is like that line from "deer hunter" for the smell of napalm in the morning. you just got to come in and go to battle with these liberals. sorry "apocalypse now." >> joining us from washington, former republican presidential candidate and former speaker of the house newt gingrich. very good to have you on board again, sir. >> good morning. >> listen. it's worth showing up to get a combination of apocalypse now and deer hunter at this time of the morning. what a concept. >> yes. what a concept. that's what you get here. so let's start with the late news about you, you're not going to be speaking at the republican national convention. you will have a role, though. are you happy with it? >> yeah. it's something i've actually negotiated that dan will remember in past national conventions, i very often have done special sessions for delegates, usually in the morni mornings, taking the teacher side of me.

last time, for example, we startled everybody because we had reverend al sharpton there along with governor pawlenty and lisa keegan the superintendent of education in arizona, did an entire session on school choice and got great attendance and great involvement. this year we're working with the republican national committee to develop a morning program that i hope will be announced in the next day or two from tampa. i'm very excited by it. sort of fits my personalities with the kind of idea oriented approach i like to take. >> so yesterday in the news, mr. speaker, we, of course, saw the white house fumble around about this priorities usa ad that suggested that mitt romney's actions led to the death of a woman. it would be very easy for the romney campaign to be shocked and stunned by these third-party attacks, but the reality is, i'm talking to somebody right now who may have been in mitt romney's position except for romney's own third-party attacks against you as you were rising in iowa and as you were rising

after south carolina. talk about these third-party ads and how bad they are for american politics? >> well, what makes them particularly bad they tend to be totally irresponsible. nobody -- some consultant comes in, gets paid a lot of money, makes a vicious attack ad, no accountability. we'd be much better off to replace all of the mccain-feingold campaign bureaucracy with a very simple law that says, you can give unlimited personal income to any candidate you want to, as long as it's reported every night on the internet and then the candidate would have to stand behind the ads. if barack obama had to stand behind this ad, they would never have run it. it wouldn't have been possible. and i think that it's -- we would have a much cleaner and much healthier system if the money was in a situation where the candidate was held accountable and wasn't just being done by political

consultants who have nothing to lose. >> political consultants also who are so attached to the candidate, you, of course, bill burton is attached to robert gibbs is attached to barack obama. but i remember the romney team -- >> sure. >> saying they had nothing to do with the attack ads against you, which you were going ahead in iowa. >> sure. >> and you pointed out, all of the people on mitt romney's super pac board were all his associates. >> well, i think at the time i described it as pius bologna and would say the same thing for president obama. if you don't want these attack ads tell your friends not to give the money. if you don't want these attack ads tell the guy who's doing it you're going to repudiate him publicly unless he obeys certain limits. this is not healthy for america to have politic deese again rate into -- deagain rate into who has the most money to run the most dishonest ad. as you said yesterday the newest

ad is so personal and human, it's truly tragic to have that kind of dishonesty thrust into a presidential campaign. >> so, joe, i just -- i agree with the speaker. >> wow. >> good. >> this should be like an ap news alert. >> so -- >> first of all, mika, you agreeing with any republican is breaking news. >> no. >> so what's your point? >> my point is that even now, speaker gingrich is able to say that what happened between him and the romney campaign during the primary process was pius bologna was a joke, they were in cahoots and he knew it and stop it, and then -- >> right. >> he could go on to make a bigger point and what we have happening here on both sides but very clearly yesterday on the side of the obama campaign, and the super pacs supporting obama, is a joke. i mean, if they're not in cahoots they should be able to say that ad was a joke or over the top or over the line and

here's what we really should be talking about and they just couldn't. >> and that's what i don't get, mr. speaker. why is it when a third party puts out an attack that is so clearly over the top, that is causing damage to the campaign, why wouldn't the white house just come out and distance themselves from it and say no no, we don't think mitt romney was responsible for this man's dealt death? >> i do think -- my sense is i may be wrong here, the white house is taking a pretty big step back to distance itself from this ad but the other side of this is, i just wrote a small electronic book called "no taxation by misrepresentation" and i walk you through the entire obama strategy on the obama care tax and how methodically and deliberately dishonest they were. i don't think you should underestimate how consistently the obama team uses dishonesty because they can't, in fact, defend what they're doing. you just saw this on this

welfare, work fair change they changed the rules you have to assume they changed the rules to change the rules, they did so probably unconstitutionally and illegally as the heritage foundation has pointed out in a thorough paper and say we're for more work not less work and yet they're changing the rules in order to be able to wave the work requirement. this kind of double talk is sort of at the heart of this administration's approach. you saw the president say this yesterday i think you just ran it a minute ago. how can the guy who offers obama care to bur rock cra tize american medicine, stand there with a straight face and say, the decision should be your decision. i mean this is the guy who has done more than any other person to create a national health system and to take power away from the doctor and power away from the patient and put it in a washington bureaucracy and stand with a totally straight face and says you should be in charge. nothing he's done in public life suggests that's true. >> newt, let me ask you about the welfare requirement.

because yesterday, when romney started running these welfare ads, you had bill clinton come out and say, that was my bill, and i signed that bill, and it's not the truth. the fact is, you and i remember this, but very few people remember it, we sent him a bill that you wrote and they vetoed it. we sent him it again and he vetoed it. finally he was forced to sign your welfare reform bill, the third time. explain to us if you will, does the romney ad get it right? explain specifically. i need specifics here. >> sure. >> how has the work requirement been gutted or is this nothing more than election year politics by romney? >> first of all, i'm going to tweet a link to the heritage paper which i recommend anybody who has a serious interest in this because it's brilliantly done and very clear, you'll remember this joe, you were there, we wrote section 407 specifically saying you cannot waive -- the president can't

waive, the governors can't waive the work requirement. why do we do that since we believe under title 10 in states having authority. the reason was liberal governors and legislatures had made a joke out of work requirements. you could get a massage and it with az work requirement. you could be, quote, testing your bed, namely sleeping, and it was a work requirement. you could go to drug rehab and it was a work requirement. you could get marriage counseling it was a work requirement. and so, having looked at all this with the advice of governors like tommy thompson and john angler and mike leavitt you'll remember we did this for two and a half years, and i give bill clinton credit he negotiated in a bipartisan manner, but one of the things he objected to, was that section 407 was mandatory and could not be waived. and we wouldn't yield on that because we so deeply distrusted liberals who don't believe in a work requirement. by the way, in 1996, one of those liberals was state senator barack obama who did not like the work requirement. remember, half the democrats,

101 of them, voted in the house voted against the bill even when clinton said he would sign it because they so deeply disliked the work requirement. so when they say they're going to waive what is i think legally unwaiveble, you have to assume it's because they're going to reduce the work requirement. otherwise why would you reduce -- why would you eliminate the requirement unless you elimb eliminate the requirement. it's disingenuous of them to pretend there's some reason they were issuings they regulation. >> want to draw on your republican party. in the last couple days you have harry reid making accusations about mitt romney's taxes. you've got this new super pac ad and virtual silence in the democratic party about critical of the white house or the president. on the republican side you have a stray comment from a romney spokeswoman about health care and laura engram and rush limbaugh and eric ericsson going hard after governor romney and his campaign.

what accounts for the difference? why doesn't governor romney have the same hold on the activist wing of his party as the president does? >> for a very practical reason. barack obama is the the true faith. barack obama is a sol alinsky radical. the last hope of left wingers in america. they will swallow almost anything in order to get him re-elected because at 8.3% unemployment, he is -- grave grave danger of getting defeated and they know that for their world view, for their ideology, government-run politician defined left wing world his defeat will be a catastrophe. ask yourself when harry reid is blatantly totally dishonest why is not a single democratic senator saying you know, you really shouldn't say things for which you have zero proof. when the white house -- as you all pointed out, the idea that gibbs is not close to obama, is pathetic. so clearly this ad was in some way approvable by the general team. >> yeah. >> by the way, axelrod on sunday

was just blatantly dishonest in a way that is almost funny. you look at the stuff and think, what you're seeing, i believe, is a level of desperation we have not seen since the 1980 election and i think this president knows that he is in deep, deep trouble. >> all right. i think he meant bill burton. >> i want to go back to spending for a moment. citizens united the supreme court decision has made any meaningful reforms difficult but the one thing that can be legislated you brought up was full and immediate disclosure. why is it the republican party specifically mitch mcconnell so adamantly opposed to simply disclosing donors and doing it immediately and can you get them to move on this issue? >> well, i think we should, but notice my proposal was to allow people to give the money directly to the candidate with full and immediate disclosure so the candidate controlled the money. we would have dramatically cleaner elections if the money was not going to some pac whether publicly or privaly but the money going to the

candidates themselves and i think you would then see the system be much more responsible, just because candidates couldn't stand having to agree to and to approve the kind of negativity and the kind of dishonesty you saw yesterday in the ad attacking governor romney. >> i'm with you on that one. >> dan senor. >> first of all i am looking forward to newt university. i've attended in the past and will be there at the convention. >> i'm going to go watch. >> you should come. now you agree so much with the speaker. >> we would love to have you there. >> since we agree on one thing -- >> no, be careful, newt. with mika let's not push our luck. >> i'm going to go. open mind. go. >> i was surprised by president clinton's response two days ago to the welfare reform attack. the ad was released at 5:00 a.m. the campaign didn't really -- i don't think put on a conference call until late that afternoon in the obama campaign to respond. president clinton's statement didn't go out until 10:34 p.m. and the language of the statement was extremely soft. i mean here you are, you're

intimately involved with this welfare reform fight, on tv, the campaign putting it out, locked clinton up, there's a statement that's extremely light, what's going on? >> well, two things. first of all, part of the information that the obama campaign gave president clinton was just false. the two republican governors have said flatly this is not what they asked for, not what they want and don't approve of it. to cite them as president clinton did is inaccurate and i think he was misled by the white house staff. if you're bill clinton, start with this notion, i just did a -- my news letter this week on the idea that obama is the anti-clinton. the idea of having obama have clinton nominate him is dangerous. clinton goes to the congress and says, you'll remember because you were there, joe, the era of big government is over. obama is trying to recreate the era of big government. clinton signs welfare reform. in one afternoon obama tries to eviscerate it.

clinton helped balance the budget for four years. obama has run the biggest deficits in american history. we reduced children in poverty by 25% the largest reduction of children in poverty in america history, moving kids into higher incomes by getting their parents to work and go to school. it clearly worked. bill clinton has to watch this guy, everything clinton tried to do at the democratic leadership council, moving the democratic party to the center barack obama has undone. i suspect what you've got is look, his wife is the secretary of state, he is a loyal democratic partisan, he's going to be effective because that's who he is. but i don't think he feels good about it. >> john heilemann. >> stick with welfare reform. the hhs memo issued on this matter says specifically that waivers will only be granted if the governors of the states they're asking for them can show that they are moving 20% more people into work than they would be otherwise. so how is it if welfare reform -- the whole point of it

of the work requirement is to move more people from welfare into work, and the -- specifically says the only way they will wave the work requirement is if the governors can demonstrate they're moving more people into work how is that undermining the central tenant of the law? >> first of all if you'll notice, you used the same language i used, they're proposing to wave the work requirement. one thing that is very clear in the 1996 law is, section 407 says you cannot waive this. it is illegal to waive this. so one of the things that president clinton frankly didn't want to sign. and we insisted on. because it was important. joe will remember several house republican conferences where we talked this through in detail and where the republican governors led by tommy thompson of wisconsin and john ingler and mike leavitt, all were adamant you had to be very tough or the traditional social bureaucracies would not shift from their habit which had been a habit frankly of teaching dependency.

so now you're asking me to believe that the president who has presided over the largest increase in food stamps in american history, a president who routinely engaging in class warfare and has been quite happy to get people more dependent on government is going to waive the work requirement to get more people to go to work not having them work. i think that's the opposite of why we wrote the law. >> you're really not answering my question. the hhs regulation says specifically the only grant waivers if moving 20% more people into work. so that's what the agency memo says. >> right. >> you're not addressing that issue with that answer. >> no. all i can tell you robert rector one of the fathers of this movement at heritage has come out flatly and said this will gut the requirement. the republican governors led by governor bob mcdonnell of virginia have written op-eds and issued statements saying this will gut the requirement. nobody who has watched this secretary of health and human services who is clearly a radical in these issues nobody

believes she will enforce a work requirement if she has the ability to waive it. >> none of those things -- again, it's -- with all due respect it's a nonresponsive answer. >> i'll give you a responsive answer. >> rooting for governor romney will gut the work requirement will gut the issue -- >> i'll give you a direct answer. what robert rector said when he analyzed this the first day. none of us believe them. >> all right. >> that is a direct answer. >> okay. then. newt gingrich thank you so much. as always for being with us. we appreciate it. we will see you and mika will be there with notebook and backpack at newt u in tampa. >> i cannot wait for mika at newt university. that is going to be fantastic. >> listen, if you invite me i'll come on the show the morning before we do the class and we'll chat about it together on the set. >> okay. >> that would be great. >> i hope i don't get kicked out of class. >> you may. >> never. >> mika, i can make no garp

guarantees. i've said it with newt off set but i'll say it right now, i went to sort of a newt u in 1993, joe gaylord helped run it and it helped me get elected. everybody who loathes me you've got newt and joe to blame for that. >> i'll tell you, mika becomes our student it's going to be a great success automatically. >> i'm there. >> exactly. >> mika, what do we have next? >> still ahead, an exclusive first look at the new issue of "time" magazine. plus, do you have what it takes to build a successful business? our next guest a venture capitalist says the best entrepreneurs are made up of four key traits. we'll talk about them. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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devry university, proud to support the education - one serving of cheese is the size of four dice. one serving of cereal, a baseball. and one serving of fruit, a tennis ball. - you know, both parties agree. our kids can be healthier... the more you know. 25 past the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now, managing partner of the venture capital firm q ball, author of the book "heart, smarts, guts and luck" what it takes to be an entrepreneur and build a great business.

great to have you on the show. >> thanks, mika. >> are the four? >> those are the four. >> we'll go through those. you talk to a lot of people who would know these answers. >> yeah. we spent about three years surveying about 500 entrepreneurs and global leaders in all different countries to find out what makes entrepreneurs tick and we surveyed them with what we think is the first yapty today task asking them tradeoffs and came down to heart, smarts, guts and luck that really drive their self-awareness and decision making. >> okay. by the way, before the interview is over i want to ask about the attacks on bain and private equity issue. >> can't wait. >> because in this economy -- i would like to hear it -- these are the characteristics that you think could make or break or could just put someone over the top in terms of success? >> everyone first off, the underlying quality of any leader or any entrepreneur's self-awareness and what you need is a baseline of all four of these traits.

what's interesting is not whether self-awareness is known to be the most critical quality but whether people are aware how to gain that self-awareness. what we found was that people tend to be dominant in one to two of these straights. tend to be heart driven, by your purpose, passion, 60% of founders are or tend to be guts driven, that desire to start and do something. >> one thing to have passion but if you're not smart and can't recognize certain patterns, your business is going to go nowhere. >> actually the book smarts component came out dead last of the four straights. >> really? >> yeah. >> that's good. that's a perk. >> you know -- >> you actually need a fairly -- fairly low baseline of smarts and when you look at the greatest entrepreneurs what was an interesting fact today that came out was less than 30% of successful businesses defined by businesses that had a successful exit, ipo or a sale event, actually started with a formal business plan. when you look at two-thirds of

"forbes" billionaire list they started with nothing. the book smart component or smarts on traditional definition sense overrated, smarts defined as pattern recognition is what we try to get at. >> how does luck play a factor? >> luck is not the traditional connotation of luck of drawing an ace of spades, one out of 52. it really is about an attitude. luck is all about that attitude that creates the opportunity and allows you to capture it. it's made up of three things, optimism, intellectual curiosity and baseline of humility. >> you look at entrepreneurs who represent some of the characteristics that are so successful. let's go through those. a lot of them are companies like -- steve els which you say he has heart and why his business is doing so well? >> steve els is the founder at chipotle and one of my partners who was a chairman over at chipotle for some years recalls

a call where steve came out frantically getting on the call and talking about how he solved all the issues around the burrito and it was about the chopping of these contments and we have another founder founding epic burger and talks about that manifesto of making a perfect burger. the founders start from a place instigated inside their soul more than anything. >> that's fantastic. take us through the others, smarts, gut and luck. smarts, warren buffett. >> obviously. >> classic example. i mean so much of smarts is driven by that component where you have this capability to be honest while you make the decisions. buffet for each of his investments writes down the reasons he's made the decisions and after results come reflects back on them to see what works or doesn't work. that's real self-awareness. so few of us have that ability to do so. we tend to be revisionists historians going back. he practiced great smart habits. >> and guts, richard branson. that makes sense. >> yeah.

i mean that's a classic one. but guts is really about anyone who has that capacity for resilience. it's the guts to start but resilience and whether it's branson or people like we surveyed and interviewed out of personal crisis, one guy, 76 days alone at sea and survived that's pretty gutsy. >> followed him. and then luck, how do you say -- >> tony. >> tony is a great entrepreneur. he is ceo of zap pose. a company many of us love and just self-described as being luck oriented. in fact, they interview for that quality of luck at zappos. >> dan senor. >> let's talk about what you do and mika mentioned bain capital, what mitt romney spent a chunk of his career doing. so much focused about bain about reengineering balance sheets and financial moves that are made. a big part of the job that romney did and you do, is identifying and backing entrepreneurs, finding talent,

often without a lot of data and saying i have to make a gut call does this person have what it takes to build a great enterprise, suffer a number of blows over a long period of time and stay at it. >> yeah. >> that's a part of what romney has done that doesn't get that much scrutiny. it's a real skill, a real talent. can you speak to what that says about his background, how it would form what he could be doing in the future. >> i'm not here to comment on romney. some of the attacks on bain are probably unfair. in my job i'm an entrepreneur turned venture capitalist and to your point we're out trying to recognize pattern find world class entrepreneurs and back them. the 25 to $30 billion funded into start-ups by venture capitalists -- there's a big distinction between venture capital and private equity which we probably don't have time to double click on, but that 25 to $30 billion does two things, funds innovations, entrepreneurs solve big problems. and it creates jobs of all the jobs created in this country, 1%

of firms are start-ups and new companies. that creates 10% of the new jobs each year. >> talk about the book and who it's aimed at. >> it's really a book geared towards entrepreneurs and business builders. almost anyone interested, interested in gaining self-awareness, understanding what drives your decision making, it's useful. if you're an anthropologist, have an an tlthropological advantage, what makes entrepreneurs tick, we've called together some of the best anecdotes and cast of characters that's interesting. >> i'm reading about, you note chris matthews. >> yeah. >> as a representative of heart when it comes to -- >> it's my wife. i think, you know, we talk a lot of people ask us about nature versus nurture and whether you can acquire that passion side. and when i was talking to her, like who just comes to mind like that has a passion or calling for what they do and she said it's chris mathews. he has that passion and that

calling to just do what he does and you feel it. you sense it. and when you're around founders, 60% that are heart driven, all founders, are heart driven, 60% heart driven, you feel that infectious quality, feel that fire in the belly and it's not something we're presenting to you with power point slides or trying to show logic. you just can't help but fall in love with their story. >> yeah. that's absolutely true. the book is heart smarts guts and luck. what it takes to be an entrepreneur and build a great business. tony chan, thank you. so nice to meet you. >> thank you. >> good to have you on the show. still ahead u.s. ambassador to the united nations susan rice joins us on set. keep it here on "morning joe."

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will obama care make your pizza more expensive? papa john's thinks so. >> the ceo of papa john's came out on an earnings call and said in 2014 our best estimate the obama care will cost about 11 to 14 cents per pizza. >> 14 cents! 14 cents! that's three times the value of a papa john's pizza.

now don't get me wrong, folks. i believe every human being has a fundamental right to affordable health care. but at what price? there has to be a line we do not cross. and it's 14 cents. because if we just sit idly by while everyone gets access to a doctor today it's just 14 cents more a pizza tomorrow it could be 3 cents more a taco. and i would rather be dead. >> and you will be if you eat all that. all right. 38 past the hour. time to get a check on the forecast. some relief is happening in this country, bill. >> we need it. this is right on schedule. yesterday the report came out that july was the hottest month ever recorded in our country. those records go back to the late 1800s and that does include the dust bowl era where some of the hottest temperatures ever recorded in our country in 1936. that shows you how off the charts we've been the first seven months of this year. as we head into august we

started off hot but we're finally getting that first taste of relief in fall. it's not for everyone. sorry for much of kansas, oklahoma and texas but from illinois, missouri, indiana and ohio where we'll get the relief over the next couple days. that does include indianapolis who had almost two inches of rain last night. it's 68 degrees cloudy with showers right now. that is beautiful. it's been near 100 all summer long there. today some of the showers and storms will make their way towards buffalo and pittsburgh. a few pop-up storms around d.c. and new york. more miss than hit. the forecast for the rest of the southeast does include the thunderstorms too. but the middle of the country look at that today. only 76 degrees today, mika, down in chicago. it's about today. >> thank god, bill. thanks very much. up next, we'll get an exclusive first look at the new issue of "time" magazine. keep it right here on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] if you have yet to master the quiet sneeze...

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with accident forgiveness, if you qualify. learn more at libertymutual.com. now confirmed. >> that is how rocket scientists celebrate. as they should have on monday, nasa landed the rover curiosity on mars. a $2.5 billion venture. joining us on set "time" magazine's assistant managing editor rana here to reveal this week's latest issue. let's start there with the cover. >> a fantastic cover, fantastic inspiring event. the piece we have was written by one of the most renowned journalists on space, jeff cluinger co-authored the book "au polo 13" was based on.

he knows his stuff. the event is just inspiring. you see crowds gathering in times square to watch this on screens that usually have advertising. it's something that is a great feel-good story. i think what's really interesting it also has great lessons for us at home because it reminds us we can still do big things. we have this big debate about how to get roads and bridges fixed in this country but we can still send this rover to mars. >> that is a good point. we talk about that here a lot on the set in terms of doing big things and there seems to be a disconnect from the political conversation and this news event which is amazingly inspiring in so many ways. the topic of the cover story is what we can learn from a robot, $154 million miles away give us a taste of what we can learn. >> so the mission is obviously to go and see if there was at some point life on mars. there's, you know, the previous explorations and pictures have given us some pretty good evidence that there is. there's going to be a lot of material gathered in the next few weeks and months and years

and a lot of that will be analyzed and used at home. another thing to remember, there's actually a space system mu lus effect. a lot of the technology in space can be commercialized at home. >> you have a piece, we'll go around the table, let's talk about your localnomics. >> so we're at a big turning point i think in the global economy. globalization is changing. we used to see it as a one way street that led away from america, but there are a lot of trends now, higher energy prices, rising wages? china, bringing jobs back home, and i think we're going to see in the next few years much more of a focus on local economic ecosystems, mayors will become more important political players. >> we're seeing that already, joe. take it. >> no doubt about it. the argument here, fascinating argument, it does go counter to tom friedman. you say the world is not flat. it is still very bumpy and all economics is local. >> yeah.

absolutely. i think you can see that everywhere. tom friedman's thesis was that globalization was going to make the world very flat, we were going to be on an even playing field, all these emerging nations were going to eventually take our jobs and prosperity but the fact is since 2008 the world has become bumpier. you can see it from the fall of the financial crisis but the split in the european economy right now. you can see it in china. so politically and economically the world is getting bumper. >> richard florida who wrote about this years ago with the flight of creative class, rise of the creative class, was he ahead of his time in terms of the talent, clustering of talent in key parts of the world. >> i think he was very pressing and i think this idea that growth is local, all economics like all politics, is local. i think that that's becoming a big thing. you can see it all over the place in california, for example, cities like stockton and san bernadino are saying we're still under water, we're having a terrible time, we're

going to take the bull by the horns and renegotiate loans with the bank. not waiting for the federal government to do principle reduction. >> mark? >> two of our colleagues two of the best columnists in america, [ inaudible ]. >> both have columns. tell us about those. >> i love fareed's column. very powerful essay on gun control and how, you know, this is actually a very american thing. we sort of think that americans love their guns but historically there's been a lot of restriction on gun control in this country and gets to the root of why do we have so many more gun-related crimes and he makes a powerful argument that it's because we have more guns, simply. >> and joe? >> well joe is talking about the budget and he's talking about how president obama has actually done a lot more and made a lot more concessions around deficit reduction than we might think but that he should do more in the months ahead. in the run-up to the election we'll see what happens. >> the lead qstion on that piece is, should he talk deficit

reduction? >> i think joe thinks he should. it's going to take deficit reduction and probably tax increases. >> she knows what every article is about, it's good. >> i was up at 5:30 this morning. >> i would like to go back to the cover story on the mars story and play a little contrarian. this is an example of our ability to do the big things and the small things, you mentioned bridges and roads aren't getting done. this is a $2.5 billion investment. a lot of people would argue we could do a lot more and better things with that kind of money and get more of a return on our investment doing things domestically at home. >> i think you can make that argument but i also think that the fact that we can get this rover to mars and that it's doable kind of reflects an important lesson back home to that effect that our inability to create infrastructure and make this economy and this country more competitive isn't a lack of ability, it's a lack of will and i think that's a really important lesson. >> before we go, there's one more piece i'm sure you know

what it's about, bill's piece on the london olympics. i love this. >> yeah. >> he makes a very important point about women sports. >> how we have this myth that women sports are not as interesting, they're not as compelling and exciting. the olympics is just totally blown that theory out of the water. so many of the interesting stories from gabby douglas, serena williams, women from the arab world competing for the first time are just really compelling. >> fantastic. rana thank you so much. the new cover of "time," mars what we can learn from a robot 154 million miles away. joe? >> you know what i find most fascinating about this entire segment ability mars and everything. >> what? >> we're having this remarkable discussion about mars and takes t.j. 8 minutes to get the cool nasa animation that shows what's actually happening. we started the first four minutes -- here we go. first four minutes blurry images that actually i could have taken like in any room, but -- >> that's okay.

>> 8 minutes in. way to go t.j. >> it's summer. he's kind of asleep. >> versus that one. that's what carried our viewers through the first six minutes. thanks, t.j. go back to disneyland. >> thank god you were here. >> all right. >> more "morning joe" in just a moment. [ thunk ] sweet! [ male announcer ] the solid thunk of the door on the volkswagen jetta. thanks, mister! [ meow ] it's quality you can hear and feel. that's the power of german engineering. right now during the autobahn for all event get great deals on a 2012 jetta. get great deals by what's getting done. measure commitment the twenty billion dollars bp committed has helped fund economic and environmental recovery.

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the national republican lawyers only found 340 cases of voter fraud over a 10-year period and all of america. >> oh, my god! that's almost -- .7 cases per state per year! that includes registration fraud like writing mickey mouse on the petition. ah! even pennsylvania is now defending their photo id law. >> the state admits they are not aware of in person voter fraud in pennsylvania. in addition they have no evident to prove in-person voter fraud is likely to error in the absence of a photo id law.

>> it doesn't happen, this won't stop it. i think you can see why we have to do it now. next up, leash laws for unicorns. >> on tomorrow's show, head coach of the new york jets, rex ryan joins us. still ahead, susan rice joins us on set and up next, the romney campaign tries to you should mine an attack from democrats, but ends up highlighting the issues that conservatives would like to forget about. sometimes, i feel like it's me against my hair.

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. >> this is an ad that is not controlled by the cap pain. i don't know the specifics of this man's case. i don't know the specifics of this person's case. there is huge anxiety about losing health care and huge anxiety about how people pay for college. again, i don't know the specifics. >> we will never get you to condemn. >> i don't know the specifics. >> good morning, it's 8:00 on

the east coast and 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. time to wake up. we have mark halpern. >> it is a mess out there. >> yeah. >> in this united land. what a mess! >> it deserves a firestorm. everyone is stepping on their own, shooting themselves in the foot, so to speak. >> stepping on their own tails. >> just say it. >> what is going on? this guy, we don't know this guy. let me get the briefing with the guy on the phone. then the romney people, they have a chance and they and it's just -- >> painful. >> like a fourth grade student council contest. >> that are would be more interesting. >> that denigrates fourth graders from across america. i apologize. >> let's let this out. the controversy that we are

talking about is from the political ad from the pro obama super pac, priorities usa. the obama campaign is not legally allowed to be involved, but the spot which they apparently had no idea about essentially links mitt romney to a woman's cancer-related death. the man named joe soptic explains after bain capital shut down he lost his job and health insurance and then his wife to cancer. for many the ad seems to imply a cause and effect relationship. the obama reelection campaign insisted they were not familiar with the man's story in the ad. a deputy campaign manager said i don't know the facts about when mr. soptic's wife got sick or the fact about his health insurance. >> i hate to interrupt the news. it's not my thing.

not my thing. >> i know. >> if they didn't know, they didn't know. let's move on. >> i kind of can't. they know. they know. here's the problem. >> they said they didn't know yesterday. >> they are not supposed to know. >> he probably just -- where did he come from. joe who? we know joe biden and joe the plumber, but not this joe, right. >> "morning joe." >> "morning joe" and joe cocker. >> and we know joe frazier. but they don't know this joe guy. >> this is an example of what a joke this system is. all right. they point out the man's story

should have been familiar to the obama campaign. posted an obama campaign in may in which the man told the story featured in the priorities act. they went on to feature mr. soptic in its own tv ad earlier this spring. >> mika, i don't understand. wait. >> all of these guys know what the super pacs are doing on both sides. they even probably approved the ads. come on. this is a joke. >> mark halpern, i'm confused. they don't even know the story, but she hosted what? what did she host three months earlier? >> a press conference call. >> stop it, everybody. >> to go over the facts. >> what does this mean? come on. >> it's really embarrassing. >> i believe the only issue is

they are not denouncing the content of the ad. >> here's the deal. they can say the ad is a low blow or unfair or it went too far. instead they made it clear they knew everything about the ad. >> hold on a second. it's not just that they are not denouncing that mitt romney killed a woman, but there was no direct nexus between him losing his job and her getting cancer. about the obama white house said they knew nothing about this guy and don't know his story when three months ago he was on their own ad. for people out in middle america who don't know how close bill burton was and is to robert gibbs and the barack obama and the obama white house, this is an absolute farce. this is like mitt romney running

the super pacs in the republican primary saying i have nothing to do with that when it was his former associates running those ads. this is a scam and can't believe the white house is allowing themselves to be lowered into this arena. >> they certainly don't need to. it's depressing. >> it certainly hurts their credibility to be caught and saying something out right false. in this case it seems clear that they misrepresented them to speak for themselves. it brought up the point that joe used. both the super pacs on both sides are stocked with people who are form er staffers to the

candidates and whether there was actual coordination that meets coordination or not, the notion that these guys are not on the same wave length and working off the same sheets of research is absurd. >> both sides are obviously equally guilty for whatever. what seems so hollow yesterday is one thing that maybe we blindsided gibbs in the morning and he didn't know the details and you could actually possibly stretch, possible low believe that he didn't know the details. >> but you gave them to him. >> but later in the day, all of them don't know the details and separate themselves from this as if separating themselves is just fair enough to say the ad is good? no, just say the ad is no good. >> the process is so corrupt, the ad is wrong and

indefensible, but the real problem, there is no price to pay. nobody is paying a price. if nobody pays a price, people are just lying left and right and the public believes nothing. >> they can say no, i don't know the details. at least on this show, that's not going to pass. you are not telling the truth. they are not telling the truth. joe, is that fair? >> the fact is they know the facts. robert gibbs is a bright guy. don't tell me he and bill burton were inseparable. don't tell me he didn't know the facts. don't tell me that jay carney didn't know the facts and stephanie cutter, of course. these are all people we know and like and told to do something that makes them look bad and makes the white house look bad and makes the president look bad. i think it's a real mistake. >> i think at least where we

differ is that i give gibbs the benefit of the doubt, but when he saw it, why can't you say that's going too far? i understand the point and here's one good point that you could be trying to make, but we wouldn't put out that ad. that's going too far. >> everybody knows that gibbs and -- >> i'm not accusing him of being in cahoots with burton. >> they are not their own people. they are speak for a white house and a president and being told what to say before they go out and give them the briefings. i don't know who instructing them to not tell the truth, but they're to go a disservice not only to them, but the campaign and the period himself. this is so short sided and

stupid that i can't believe that an organization that is this good has allowed themselves to be caught in such petty lies over the past 24 hours. move on. i don't get it. >> there a number of reports that are questioning the facts behind the ad. it turns out this gentlemen's wife had died in 2006, years after the steel plant was shut down and revealed that soptic's wife had her own employee's sponsored health insurance for at least a year after he was laid off and question whether mitt romney was in charge of day to day decisions at bain capital and romney claims he left to lead the olympics in salt lake city. the cofounder of priorities usa, bill burton, we know him well said he stood by the ad and the timeline. >> the point of the ad is that it's to tell the story of one

guy, joe soptic, and the impact on his life that happened as a result of decisions that mitt romney made. we are saying that joe soptic was fired from his job and as a result of that was not able to hold on to health care benefits that were promised to him and he didn't have health care. >> his wife was diagnosed with cancer six years after mitt romney left bain capital. he went to run the olympic games in salt lake in 1999. >> you are responsible for that as a ceo. >> in terms of day to day operations, he had no role. >> he was the ceo and the sole shareholder. he was responsible for the decisions. >> nobody is buying what bill burton is saying for good reason. it's indefensible and the facts don't lineup. mark halpern, in this perverse political world in which we

live, is this a good career move for bill burton whose priorities usa super pac will be now flooded by millions of dollars from ctributor who is don't want to be bothered with facts? it happens on the right. joe wilson said shut up. he makes lots of money. michele bachmann said crazy things and gets millions of dollars. is this a case where bill burton will be rewarded for pedalling snag is rightly false. >> maybe. it might go the other way. hats off to wolf blitzer and colleague who is welcomed us into the situation room and gave them an extended flogging. the biggest worry up to the top of the white house is the republican super pacs. they want it to raise lots of money.

it's possible that it will cause more people to give. it's equally likely that a lot of rich democrats say this is not what we want our money to go towards and could hurt their fund-raising because most of the ads are factual problems associating mitt romney with killing a woman is something i think for a lot of people will cross the loin in a way people may not want to give to that super pac. however important it is to be competiti competitive. >> if you were asked, you can react and there many aspects of the ad that are over the edge and i don't know why anybody in the white house can't say that. i don't understand. it hurrs to watch. >> like mark said, i spent a lost time talking to wealthy democrats who are in this city.

many of them gave a lot of money to the president in 2008 and many are not giving that much this time. a lot of them are saying the same things and they like barack obama better than mitt romney, but we don't think he's the devil. our names will be disclosed and linked to ads who demonize a goy we don't want to be president and we don't think is the devil. i hear that over and over again from the democratic donor who is held back from giving and have a fear of this kind of thing. they survey somebody because of this and there other people who mark said will amplify their fear and cause them to hold back. >> joe, i think you nailed it when you said the system is perverted. it is. it has been perverted. >> we will see what happens with

the super pac whether bill and priorities will get more money. i think john makes it a great poi point. we have all talked to democrats and wealthy wall street types and they had this and this type of commercial. not only have we had this type of commercial attacking private equity, but twisting the facts to such a degree that it's now accusing private equity of killing a woman. even though the facts don't lineup, i think it reinforces all the worst suspicions about the democratic super pacs that the loyal democrats are concerned about and could cause problems before.

yesterday was not just a tough day for democrats. a lot of conservatives that saw the events of the day and the way they unfolded and played out as further example of the fact that mitt romney is just not ready for prime time. >> and that the campaign is still about nothing. despite the fear aimed at democrats, the romney campaign has once again seemingly failed to capitalize on the political opportunity. during an interview yesterday, the spokesperson explained that if joe soptic and his wife had lived in massachusetts they would have benefitted from mitt romney's individual health care mandate. >> obviously it's unfortunate when anyone loses their job, but this was a plant closed years after governor romney left the company. to that point, if people had

been in massachusetts under governor romney's plan, they would have had health care. there a lot of people losing their jobs and health care in president obama's economy. that's why governor romney is running. to get people back to work. >> some influential republicans were quick to react. eric erickson tweeted this. omg. this might be the moment mitt romney lost the election. >> i think that's hyperbolic. >> help me out here. >> eric erickson and a lot of other conservatives don't want to see mitt romney going back and defending a health care plan and they want to get away from that. this is going in the wrong direction. this reminds me of how tough it

is to be a spokesperson. i can get people to say that about me for free. >> coming up next, ambassador to the united nations. we will talk syria and iran and the one olympic sport she can't miss. she will be watching in person from london. first bill has a check of the forecast. >> good morning to you, mika. we are on pace for the hottest year ever on record. we got done with the hottest july ever on record. we are getting a break from a few spots. indiana, ohio and illinois. this is the break from the incredible summer heat. it will return, but the worst is over with. with the change you will get severe storms. the cool airheading into the air mass. the street of strong thunderstorms that proved a lot of big cities there through the ohioalley in pittsburgh and it

will shift to the eastern seaboard. this is the get away summer friday. strong thunderstorms late in the afternoon and airport delays are likely from new york city to philly and baltimore come friday night. even though that will linger into saturday and three days in a row of storms to track. here's how the forecast looks throughout the day. notice how much cooler it is. even kansas city and the 88 degrees will feel like fall. even about 100 for the last two or three weeks. one area that won't get a break is dallas. usually you have to wait until september. you are watching "morning joe." leaving you with a shot of the tower bridge. beautiful day in london. with the spark cash card from capital one,

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. >> the intensity of the fighting, the defections point out how imperative it is that we come and work towards a good transition plan. i would hope that everyone would recognize that the best way to get there quickest is to stop the fighting and begin a

political transition to a better future for the syrian people. >> that was secretary clinton from south africa speaking about a post a sad syria. the u.s. ambassador to the united nations, susan rice. great to have you. we are talking about your participation in some way, shape, or form in ln on in the olympics. we will get to that, but let's start with syria and how we get to that transition. >> the fighting on the ground is intensifying and the momentum is shifting in favor of the opposition. the defections are mounting and the political isolation is increasing. the aim is to accelerate a peaceful transition, but for that to occur given the failure and effort and russia and

china's block of any meaningful security council action will have to come on the ground with the pressure on the regime continuing to mount to the point where it crumbles from within. that's what we are beginning to see. >> how long do you put the pressure on before you start to change? >> we will continue to strengthen the opposition and provide more and more material support to the opposition with communications equipment and medical supplies and vast quantities of humanitarian assistance and strengthening the pressure every day with allies in the region and beyond. secretary clinton is going to turk to continue our dialogue with the turks who have been influential in trying to help in the process of accelerating this transition. we will continue to keep the pressure on the regime until it's gone. >> there is request for a no-fly

zone. is there any sign that this type of pressure, this tactic is -- >> it's evolving in favor of the opposition. the aim is to minimize the bloodshed as secretary clinton said and a no-fly zone, there have been calls for that and none of these options have been ruled out, but the no-fly zone is not a proposition and involves putting boots on the ground and would be a different circumstance than we saw in libya and the air defenses are among the most sophisticated in the world and it is a boost and already evolving into something of a proxy conflict with some influx of extremists. this is not particular le black

and white, but looking at strengthening the opposition materially and financially and substandardly and politically and that is showing progress on the ground. >> america is increasingly being viewed with suspicion and resentment. is that accurate? >> i can't judge what one reporter found and a handful of introduce, our impression and the people of syria know it's been the united states and our partners in the region and the rest have stood with the syrian people. it has been russia and china that have reportedly blocked any meaningful action to protect the syrian people. they have aligned themselves with iranians on the wrong side of history. the united states has been the provider of support, material and otherwise. not just political, but

humanitarian assistance and they put the pressure on the regime. the syrian people will know that and it will stand up. >> there is a nexus between syria and iran. tehran supporting a sad and israel in consideration about whether to make a preemptive military action. talk about how all those factors play together. >> i think you heard when you saw assad sitting this week with iran that they view this as an act of resistance. no question that iran is playing a nepharious role more broadly and actively supporting the assad regime and the end result must be with the departure of assad because this alliance, so

to speak is bad for the region. >> the stability in syria increases the likely hood or decreases the likelihood. >> i can't speculate and israel is concerned legitimately about the nuclear program as we are too. that concern preceded the situation and if the situation in syria resolves in relatively short order, our shared concern will persist. i don't mean to suggest these don't all come together with a degree of complexity, but israel and the united states and the international community which is united in its concern about iran's nuclear program and the determination to prevent it have that concern because iran is still pursuing a nuclear capability. >> the post-assad syria when leaders have left, there have

been various sources on stability. other elements. what are the potential sources to transition to a new government with limited bloodshed? >> what will evolve is somewhat unpredictable, but we made clear and i think you heard clinton reiterate, the experience of preserving institutions and not dismantling the apparatus of state which proved to be a problematic development. we support a political transition and a unity of government that consists of individuals from the opposition and even those that may be acceptable within the current regime such that there can be a period of time when democratic forces can come together and the constitution can be written and elections can be held and the syrian people can have the student on a nonsectarian basis and women and everybody

participated in determining the government of syria. >> you are going to london and going to be meeting the u.s. delegation for the closing ceremonies. you are going to basketball games. you are a big fan. >> a huge fan. i'm a huge fan as we all are of team usa and what an amazing run we had at the olympics. i am thrilled to be leading the dell gigz to the closing ceremonies and to getting in some good basketball, women's basketball and hope to see our team usa in the finals and men the same. i can't imagine a more exciting outcome. >> she not just a fan. a hell of an athlete. high school nickname? >> this is you. >> with an afro at age 15 or so. >> at national cathedral. >> did you go there?

>> point guard on that team. >> point guard, yes. let's not overhype this. i could only play in high school. >> good luck. enjoy london and good luck with all of this. susan rice, thank you very much for coming on the show. >> good to be with you. >> coming up, how ben gone's restaurant is helping veterans go from soldier to business owner. next on "morning joe." [ "human" by the human league playing ] humans. we mean well, but we're imperfect creatures living in a beautifully imperfect world.

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. >> 35 past the hour. welcome back. veterans returning home from war facing their next big fight in an increasingly hostile job market. now a new initiative is under way to put the skills of the soldiers to good use. with us now, the man leading the charge. the ceo of bennigan's restaurant chain. paul, good to have you on the show. >> great to be here.

>> i will hold back because i like what you are doing. explain the concept. >> we have been around 36 years and started in 1976. just like most casual dining chains or any chain, they go through periods of ups and downs and we have come out of a period of shaky management and we have shaken it out of that ownership now with new ownership and rebuilding the integrity of the brand domestically and around the world. the value platform is such that we want to participate in different projects. by the way, i do have the specifics on this. unlike some people that i can't talk to. >> i want to hear it.

how exactly you are wanting to start a bennigan's, what makes it different from somebody else who comes to you? >> it's really not that different because there is a program through the international franchise association and talked about earlier, we tried to get them to come into our business as a franchisee. as part of the association, there is an operation vet friend. what's unique with us is we can offer what we want and what we do is for veterans that come back and qualify for the financing, we are prepared to wave all the fees which is $35,000. most people don't know this.

there is over 20 million veterans in the country. we are more sensitive than the ones that and hopefully they will hire some of the the military as well. they are scared away and know how to follow procedures and standards and we want to do our part to help these guys get back in business. >> hats off to you. a lot of events programs in the country today are returning vets as a charity case. we have an ob gigz do something to help you. not only did we open the debt of gratitude, but we are looking for leaders and those who know how to improvise. putting those in charge of real

business responsibility is good for business. >> it's a very positive thing. i had the opportunity to work with many people that have retired from the military and getting to the system. this franchising is about consistency performing against the standard of operation that is unique. i found they really pay particular attention to it and in this case, we actually have a deal we are about to close on. it's not just paying lip service, but starting to get applicants and execute them. >> thank you for your service and yourself and thanks for doing the program. vets thing participate, what do they do? >> go to the international franchise association website. it's franchise.org. part of that is the u.s. belongs

to another piece of this. we make sure we pay attention to all of the population. they should go and take a look at the requirements and apply and they can also go to our website and look at the details of that program. >> obviously it's a really, really important thing that you are doing. a good thing and morally correct. do you think you will get a return from this? >> it's not so much about a return as much as doing the right thing. i really believe because i saw the gentlemen on earlier, we all at bennigan's have a passion and our passion is known for thinking green. delivering the food in a legendary environment and our people and about our drinks and about producing a vibe in a

restaurant and excellent service which unfortunately is an anomaly today. this bleeding green passion that we have extends to every part of our business. the sales and the profits and the success of the brand will perpetuate itself. >> thank you so much. get the healthy options coming. >> my pleasure. >> huh to get that in. >> you promise? >> i will make sure we have a special one named after you. >> you don't have to poander. this is bullying. >> and a deep fryer. >> you are worried about doing the right thing. i actually think the restaurant industry is fully challenged in this respect and i sympathize. do the right thing. >> this is bullying. >> it's not.

>> you have one with your name on it. >> see? >> business headlines next on "morning joe." [ female announcer ] how do you define your moment? the blissful pause just before that rich sweetness touches your lips. the delightful discovery,

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ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 way the wind is blowing. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 at charles schwab, we're ready with objective insights about ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 the present market and economic conditions. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 and can help turn those insights into ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 a plan of action that's right for you. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 so don't let the current situation take you off course. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 talk to chuck. ttd#: 1-800-345-2550 . everyone good morning and back to "morning joe." from the top of the rock, let's go to business before the bell. to brian sullivan, the man who knows everything or he will just make stuff up. what stuff are you making up this morning for us? >> how about the new sandwich at

bennigan's? the mikacristo. a beautiful sandwich that is delicious too. >> my lord. >> you just gotta move on. you just gotta move on. >> so why don't we go to actual news items. >> you win. it's a big to shut me up. that ain't nothing. how are the jobless claims? >> getting better. the number is 161,000. the second clean or good data beat in a row. it's a good sign none the less. >> a good sign none the less. talking about how the big banks while mortgage rates are low, they squeeze out more than they should. what's that story? going it?

>> the story is this. a morningage will be low. 3.50 if you have decent credit. that's a decent rate, but according to the story, based on the borrowing cost, it could be closer to 3%. they are taking more of a profit. there is more regulation and you need that extra margin and they are compensating for more risk. some of the hits they had to take and the profit margin on the low. any time you have banks and higher profit margin in the same sentence, there will be outraged. . >> there is a fascinating story that parallels big or small companies. the ceos are washington and stop

fighting and this may be one of the greatest examples in modern american history where it's standing in the way of the rest. they have no idea what washington will do. they can't cooperate and take care of the debt and tax reform. they can't take care of anything. >> the article sites out of the s&p 500, 35 of the ceos specifically referenced the fighting and dysfunction in d.c. on the conference calls as preventing them from fully unlocking the business and hiring new workers. they say it's the typical whining ceo. my wife worked in retail for 18 years and and in march they are planning for the holidays. they do it six to nine months out. probably new year 2013 already.

you don't know what the tax rate is going to be and you don't know the other regulations. my message is that they will have to put that out and american business is bigger than washington. move on. start working. move on. >> just move on. something like mikacristo. good through and through. there it is. 4,000 calories. >> that are is so fattening. >> yum. >> yours is baked, but healthy and delicious. >> okay. >> at first, i'm thinking it's off the top of his head. the guy is quick.

it's lightning fast. he thinks about this stuff. >> oh, god. okay. thank you, everybody. ♪ [ acoustic guitar: slow ]

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welcome back to "morning

joe." a look at the west coast papers. vigils across the papers. paying tribute to the people killed in the sikh temple shooting. people join to remember the victims of the milwaukee suburb and to pray for peace. >> a huge win for political correctness. susan g. komen for the cure, she is moving away from day to day management. i am not sure why, but the lead chapter suffered low numbers in the wake of the brief decision separate themselves from planned parenthood. >> from our parade of papers, senate candidate from the republican convention putting him on track. since the primary in the last week, he took on the role of surrogate for mitt romney and

faces democrat paul sad low in the general election. what if anything did we learn today? [ male announcer ] if you stash tissues like a squirrel stashes nuts, you may be muddling through allergies. try zyrtec® liquid gels. nothing starts working faster than zyrtec® at relieving your allergy symptoms for 24 hours. zyrtec®. love the air. sven's home security gets the most rewards of any small business credit card! how does this thing work? oh, i like it! [ garth ] sven's small business earns 2% cash back on every purchase, every day! woo-hoo!!! so that's ten security gators, right? put them on my spark card! why settle for less? testing hot tar... great businesses deserve the most rewards! [ male announcer ] the spark business card from capital one. choose unlimited rewards with 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase, every day! what's in your wallet? here's your invoice.

what's in your wallet? this is new york state. we built the first railway, the first trade route to the west, the greatest empires. then, some said, we lost our edge. well today, there's a new new york state. one that's working to attract businesses and create jobs.

a place where innovation meets determination... and businesses lead the world. the new new york works for business. find out how it can work for yours at thenewny.com. welcome back to "morning joe." what i learned, brian sullivan

is a troubled man who has way too much time in the middle of the night to think of these things. >> you make everything dirty, joe. stop. >> he has an artist rendering of this thing. seriously. >> there it is. brian loves it. what did you learn today some. >> i am the newest student at newt u. that's what i learned. >> going to newt u. see where that's exciting. having her backpack on. i love it. >> i love myself. >> the prediction is newt u has a huge turn out. i'm not joking. it will be huge turn out and mika will be lucky to get on the waiting list. >> i will not get accepted? >> what did you learn, mark? >> martin's birthday. happy birthday, joe.