pressure. side effects include headache, flushing, upset stomach, and abnormal vision. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. stop taking viagra and call your doctor right away if you experience a sudden decrease or loss in vision or hearing. this is the age of taking action. viagra. talk to your doctor. good morning from new york. i'm chris hayes. we are awaiting word later this hour from mitt romney with his official announcement of wisconsin representative paul ryan as his running mate. news of romney's choice of the 42-year-old ryan came overnight and comes as a surprise to many observers who expected him to make a safer choice like former minnesota governor tim pawlenty or ohio senator rob portman.

ryan who entered the house in 1999 has risen quickly through republican ranks becoming chairman of the powerful house budget committee last year. he began his career as an aide to then jack kemp. ryan surged to the front of the v.p. pack in recent weeks on the strength of his popularity among grassroots conservatives. his esteemed right wing activists as a visionary and is considered an intellectual leader for the proposed budget. safety net programs like food stachs, cut hup dretds of billions of dollars and end medicare as we know it. the choice of ryan then would seem to be an attempt to bolster romney's standing among conservatives who have remaining skeptical of his credentials even at this late date. the announcement comes just two days after "the wall street journal" urged romney in an editorial to pick ryan to call him, the candidate that best

exemplar fi fies the nation. he voted for the iraq war and there's much in ryan's record that contradicts his image as a reformer and deficit cutter that will leave him open to democrats. among other things he approved the $800 billion stimulus package and the auto bailout. i'm joined. it's great to have you gentlemen here this morning. welcome. >> good to be here. thanks. >> i want to start with you. as someone who has been -- health care policy is something you've put a lot of interest and something you worked on. i want to play this clip of representative ryan talking about mitt romney's massachusetts health care plan because this to me gets at something and also the ideological journey mitt romney has been on. here's representative ryan on

c-span in 2010. >> do you believe that massachusetts health care reform system works, a system that governor romney? >> not well, no, actually i'm not a fan of the system and think that was part of it. what's happening now is because costs are getting out of control, premiums are increasing in massachusetts, and now you have a bureaucracy that is having to put all these cost controls and now rationing on the system. so people in massachusetts are saying, yes, we have, you know, virtually universal health care. i think it's like 96% or 98% insured but they see the system bursting by the seems. they see premium increases, ragging and benefits cuts so they're frustrated with this system. number one, they're already paying for it. they don't want to pay for another system on top of it. that was scott brown's message. but, two, they see this idea of the government being the sole regulator and then an individual mandate. it is a fatal conceit in these kinds of systems as we're now seeing in massachusetts are unsustainable.

>> all right. so that's -- i mean mitt romney has not spent a lot of time touting his signature policy achievement in massachusetts which is the state health care's provisions, but he also hasn't had words like that to say about it. what do you make of that kind of critique. >> >> any time there's a vice-presidential pick, there's always a certain set of disagreements about policy issues. when joe lieberman was picked, he has a lot of views that wouldn't necessary by be shared. i think where there's huge agreement and why this is such a significant choice is where we go from here. what's the agenda for national reform, what's the agenda for health care. and i think that's why they're in exactly the same place. >> romney and ryan, that's the takeaway. physically they are exactly the place right now in norfolk, virginia, preparing to milwaukee this announcement. >> aboard the "uss wisconsin" by

the way. >> of course. symbolically apt because of paul ryan's wisconsin roots. that was the question here. in some of the conversation about whether ryan would be on the ticket or not was mitt romney had endorsed the ryan budget but i would say he endorsed the ryan budget but was not running on the ryan budget up until today and now it seemed inevitably and clearly he is running on the ryan budget. >> yeah. i think if you step back and look at the big picture of this. mitt romney's entire career as a presidential candidate has been dogged by the question of who he really is. is he a massachusetts conservative or a moderate conservative? with this pick mitt romney is saying, okay, this is who i am, i'm committed to it. the question is whether people are going to believe him and people on this network and

elsewhere are going to say, now, wait a minute. you have said this, paul ryan has said that. are you guys really on the same page here? are you really on the same page? >> yeah. let me be clear about the point of playing that tay. i think they are on the same page. i think that the republican party and the institutional bases of the republican party has absolutely unquestionably moved in paul ryan's -- >> no question. chris, this is the tea party -- this is the triumph -- my headline would be this is the triumph of the tea party and mitt romney was not accepted by the grass roots in the primary process necessarily because people doubted in places like iowa, new hampshire and else where. what he's saying with his pick is i'm the real deal, this man can better express it. he's my kemp whisperer. he's the guy -- >> here's a guy who's good. >> this guy has actually read

hayek. >> okay. here's the question about the politics of this though. it seems to be to be coming out of a place of weakness insofar as -- i mean this week we had this remarkable blow-up in which andrea saul, the spokesperson for the romney campaign did something i thought that was not that note worthy who said in an attack act, well, in massachusetts we paused this good piece of policy to make sure people are covered. and the response was massive conservative backlash and it was in this week that we were reminded once again that the deal was not closed with the base of the party. i don't think there's any way you can put anything but that after this. >> i think this choice does really enter -- >> this closes the deal. >> this closes the deal. as you noted in your opening segment, paul ryan is the leader of the conservative movement. it's a lot like reagan in '76 it'shat kind of significant choice.

paul ryan's choice does firm up that in fact he's the guy providing the energy, ideals around entitlement reform which mitt romney has signed on to. if you had said four years ago that in the summer of 2008 that in 2012 we'd have a talk about entitlement reform, it's pretty remarkable. >> the fact is, chris -- >> i like to call it social insurgence. >> we have to have that debate. we do have to have there debate because the future of the economy -- >> we've been having it for two years. >> we have been having it but we haven't been having it in this presidential campaign, which has been about mitt romney's taxes and about all kinds of other stuff. this choice is going to lead, i think, to a better campaign, a more substantive campaign and a campaign where we're really going to discuss it. >> first of all, i think we've had a pretty substantive campaign. >> you have. >> no. this week -- the top story driving this week was welfare wai

waivers. >> right, that's true. >> and we were all in the -- e wondering if they could -- >> i guess my point is a lot of the advertising has been about things other than that, and that's what people -- >> sure. >> that's totally right. >> that's what people in swing states have been saying in the news ads aimed at swing voters. what i'm saying now is with the choice of paul ryan, those swing voters are going to hear real debate about whether you want voucher, if you want it to be turned into a program or not. >> that i agree with but let me also say this. what is the debate about in this moment, he's what strikes me as odd. if i were the mitt romney campaign, and i've said this before, i would get mitt romney -- this might turn people off -- i would get a tattoo of the unemployment rate on my forehead. i wouldn't speak. i would show up with 8% tattooed

in like a gang symbol and go around the country. what ryan signals to me -- he says, actually my path to prosperity is the jobs program. really what it really is focused on, it's trying to focus the debates squarely in the terms of what are long-term fess cal projections, how are we going to bend it, how with we going to pay if for medicare, get rid of it, et cetera. in the form of human beings who can work and are able bodied sitting on the sidelines, and if i were running against barack obama -- >> thing is i think what the romney campaign saw here they made their decision is that the 8% tattoo thing wasn't really working because the obama campaign had quite successfully painted romney into a corner on who he was as a person, what he thought about fwhelt the united states, what his taxes were,

what he did in his business. this is mitt romney trying to change the conversation because what he was doing before hadn't worked for other reasons. >> do you think that's true? >> i don't think it's an either or. you have to do both. you view to criticize him on his record and you have to have a positive forward agenda for what you'll do. >> this allows us to focus on the second element. what will he do? what will be his agenda? >> romney consider we've run the graphs. he promotes it. in fact, it has very similar distributional effects to the ryan budget in terms of people atop getting huge tax cuts and people at the bottom possibly seeing a tax increase. his vision is not that different. >> no, but it was vague on the question of how he was going to go after the deficit really. >> well, there are $2 trillion

cuts in the romney plan too. >> ryan is farther down the road than mitt romney is. i want to bring in chuck todd who broke the news of the announcement right after we take this break. designed for men's health concerns as we age. it has more of 7 antioxidants to support cell health. one a day men's 50+. and i thought "i can't do this, it's just too hard." then there was a moment. when i decided to find a way to keep going. go for olympic gold and go to college too. [ male announcer ] every day we help students earn their bachelor's or master's degree for tomorrow's careers. this is your moment. let nothing stand in your way. devry university, proud to support the education of our u.s. olympic team.

all right. i want to bring in chuck todd, host of "the daily rundown." good to see you. >> thank you, sir. >> here's what i thought as i was blurry-eyed reading this on my iphone at 2:30 in the morning. what we learned from the romney camp is they have learned the lesson of game change and the lesson of 2000le and they have learned that v.p. risks represent a lot of downside risks and not a lot of upside benefit and they were not going to make that mistake again by making v.p. a central part of the campaign by taking the

downside risk and this seems to me to be a pretty strong repudiation of that. at some point it seems they changed their mind oven that. >> the political reality changed their mind for that. let's think about when they were leaking that out. six weeks ago. 's when they felt it was fairly even. yes, the president seemed to be up a little bit but in the last three or four weeks, this race -- you know, it felt like it was opening up. what was opening up about it, we can debate the size of the president's lead, okay? nobody seems to be debating the idea that the president is leading but was really clear is mitt romney was taking on water in the definition of who he is personally. then they suddenly put more pressure that the v.p. pick and convention was going to serve as a relaunch. they needed definition. i think in a perfect world they wanted to be in a position where they didn't need the vchlt p. pick to be used as a way to

essentially relaunch. they're not in that position. that's the reall ty of the moment. it should be said while they didn't have much of a relationship, they did bond and there was -- there was an aspect to them that they do like each other personally. the rom is neys and ryans did b. that matters in the romney world as well. you can't sort of be connected on the issues, be it political necessity. you have to sort of be comfortable in that club. but i go back, you know. he needs to sort of put definition to beyond being the rich guy who looks out of touch to the middle class, and at this point he needed someone else. portman wing going to serve as a relaunch in that respect. neater was pawlenty. you could argue if you named him, it would reinforce romney's negatives. they would say, he's there to connect to the class, be the

blue collar guy. >> on the other side what i found from the ryan pick myself is ied that actually been in the somewhat skeptical camp. you know, sometimes it's hard from an analytical point. basically everything before six weeks is not super predictive, right? this to me confirms the race was opening up and my own skepticism was opening up that they see it opening up at least. >> and it's where it was opening up. you know, sometime as what we don't do as well when we cover national polls, we spend a lot of time in the horse race, go into some internals quickly and then move away. but it was stuff both the campaigns were seeing, that romney was getting to -- both campaigns do something. every couple of nights when they do their poll, they'll ask

something that they heard or seen about the candidate and i can tell you that it's my understanding that there are pollsters on both sides that when they've been in these battleground states, all that they've been getting back, even though the republicans are outspending the democratsover all, all they were getting back from mitt romney were anything tichb descriptions from obama campaign ads. it was working. the definition and the attempt to define and take over mitt romney's biography was working. so they were in a position. they needed to do this. i talked to some republicans. said, what do you need out of this pick? what do you hope the romney campaign does. they said, well, for romney's concern, you know, we need some excitement and need some clarity. and that's what this gives. but, chris, i want to bring up something else. >> sure, please. >> when you look at the presidential nominees at this stage that felt that they needed to use the vice-presidential candidate to relaunch, i think al gore, i think bob dole, i think -- you could go back,

walter mondale. it doesn't -- you know, where they wanted the vp pick to be basically as big as they are and help relaunch, it didn't end well. >> right? when you look at the candidates that win, bush, clinton, and sarah palin obviously the most obvious example, there was a lot of pressure for him to pick a gentleman by the name of jack kemp. he said, i'm the change. i'm going go bland. i'm going with george h.w. bush. >> that points to this dynamic that reagan was the hero to the right and had the latitude to make that decision where mitt romney is not. >> this reminds me. when chuck said his sources on the republican side said we need some excite nnmen excitement an think chuck and i know in st. paul, minnesota, that that's

what everybody was saying about sarah palin. she provided excitement and clarity. it's a similar situation where you have a front runner at the top of the ticket and you need somebody sharply conservative on the second level. that's exactly what's happening here. >> the weird thick here, right, is that there's a policy record of mitt romney, okay? the guy was governor of a state and did lots of stuff. i found out the other day they increased fees on people getting a card certifying they were blind in massachusetts by $15, okay? there's a policy record. you know, if i were mitt romney i think i'd be a little insulted when my advisers come to me and say we want this guy. he's in the weesd. he's going to provide clarity. he was the governor of a state but he painted himself into the corner because he doesn't talk about being the governor of the state. >> he doesn't paint himself into

a corner at all. the real authentic that went underemphasized -- the primary was this winter. they said which of the nominees are going to come out and support the mitt romney plan. mitt romney said i believe in the overall concept of the ryan plan but my plan is going to be dwichblt and they id san jose sharks what's that mean. then they came out with what had a lot of policy appeal. what happened then? they came up with a plan. >> you're planning the scoop for mitt romney. >> this is when the policy alliance between paul ryan and mitt romney was commented. this is also something that is not as well known. when the nominations with wrapped up or the contest was wrapped up, they moved to boston. the guy i report to is an ex-~ paul ryan staffer. there's been a lot of o policy for a long time, you know?

>> we're going have the one and only rachel maddow joining us in just a moment. chuck, if you would stick around, that will be great and we'll talk more about paul ryan, the vice-presidential pick of mitt romney right after this. [ male announcer ] this is rudy. his morning starts with arthritis pain. and two pills. afternoon's overhaul starts with more pain. more pills. triple checking hydraulics. the evening brings more pain. so, back to more pills. almost done, when... hang on. stan's doctor recommended aleve. it can keep pain away all day with fewer pills than tylenol. this is rudy. who switched to aleve. and two pills for a day free of pain. ♪ [ female announcer ] and try aleve for relief from tough headaches. thor's couture gets the most rewards of any small business credit card.

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i've just been told i don't have a rachel ma dough irn trdd the prompter. you told me last night to go home and get some sleep and here you are. >> i've been up ever since it's great to have you here. >> thanks. >> what's your reaction to the pick? >> there are some obvious winners to this pick. obviously the right is very excited. paul ryan is a controversial pick in the country at large. on to right, he's not

controversial as well. this compounds that problem. so the right is very excited. paul ryan is very excited. the p90x people, i'm sure are very excited. he is the poster child for p90x, which is most of what politico writes about him. >> he's fit and trim, which i admire. >> david plouffe was trying to hang paul ryan around mitt romney's neck starting back in march when he started the rhyme/romney plan or the ryan/romney plan framing. he's been used as a kujle against mitt romney already so for them to accept that, to run on what ryan is famous for other than p 90 x is a real change. >> the democrats are excited about it. i don't think there's anyone -- maybe there's something on ron portman but it strikes me there were a ton of democratics

salivating over portman in the way they with with ryan. >> to emphasize rachel's point, the way the campaign was set up, they were going after romney the summer and then they wanted to figure out how to tie romney to the house republicans and the ryan plan in the fall. well, romney did it for him by picking ryan. there are a lot of republican strategist this morning who have clients, are helping clients to try to get re-elected in house races and senate races who are very nervous this morning. they're the one group of folks not very happy. they've been trying to come up with ways to distance themselves from the ryan budget. i look at two senate races, i would think and point a lot of folks to go watch the senate races over the last couple of weeks. there's sort of the petri dish on medicare.

there have been ads running against the ryan plan. heidi hide camp is basically is in the game because she's been hammering her republican opponent who is also a sitting house member rick burg for voting for the ryan plan. and she's in the game in a so-called red state simply because of one issue, medicare. that's the other aspect of this pick is that it gives some clarity to the debate but it gives charity all the way down the ballot. this is one of those rare occasions that what the house candidates are going to be talking about, both democrats and republicans, what the senate campaigns are going to be talking about, all of it is the exact same thing. there's no sort of distancing yourself from your presidential candidate. much, much harder now. >> to me what it also reaffirms is the increasingly, for lack of a more descriptive nature,

american politic as that moment but politics what which is increasingly gofrmged from the house. it's very true right now. >> can i say i think that's exactly right and i think whole ee likz has struck me as a par will mentry election in that we sort of know what the issue and the objective is which is who's going have the high ground in congress in the lame duck and in the early portion of next year to decide these fund mental issues about entitlements and taxes. we baflkly know what the issue is and it's been a battle for control of the who has the upper hand and that's going to clarify the nature of that for sure. >> you know, one of the biggest things -- >> hold that thought for one second. i want to take a break and continue this conversation. chuck we can keep you here for a little long fir that's okay with you and we'll be right back after this break. [ female announcer ] when skin meets goddess...

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all right. we're discussing obviously the big new this morning that mitt romney will be naming budget house chair of the budget committee paul ryan, 42-year-old seven-year congressman from janesville near kenosha, not too far from chicago. that announcement will be happening live. i have at the table avik roy, howard fineman and rachel maddow. we have an increasing party in which the house of representatives sets the agenda for the party and people vote as a block as they would in a parliamentary block. if you're a member of the party, you're not making the individual calculations about i represent this district. you vote for the ryan budge and that exposes, i think, some political, you know, cause for republicans and you and i have talked about this a lot, what the cost of that are. >> the problem for that is two

of -- two fold. i mean everybody says oh congress is very unpopular. it's unprecedented that it's ever been this unpopular. so to bring somebody from the house republican caucus and put them on the ticket brings that onboard to the romney campaign bchl tu other thing is the bun thing paul ryan is famous for is the bunt and the other is which privatizing medicare, turning it into a coupon system and voucher system, ending medicare as we know it. he's the kill medicare guy. that won a lot of elections, especially at the time republicans were voting on that. it now becomes it's a choice election. it's now kill medicare or the president. >> there's also the argument from a political standpoint when the "wall street journal" wrote their editorial, there was a relatively decent political point in there which is the budget is going to be hung

around your neck anyway, you might as well get the guy who knows it best on your ticket. that's not crazy idea. he had endorsed the budget. grover nor cress got up nypothesiz. that budget was going to -- they were going to own the budget whether ryan was on the ticket or not. >> what impresses me here is the president, because of what the budget, what the house had done, the president and his advisers are now running, decide to run and are running quite effective will i when they're not attacking mifrm's attackers, they're running as defenders of medicare, social security, all the rest of the great society and new deal architecture that the democrats for two generations built up. >> defenders of the status quo. >> i know. in that sense it's true.

they're saying, look, the economy is tough, the world is tough, the last thing we're going to do is not defend medicare, social security, education money, loans, all the architecture we are defending. so the president is now running that type of campaign. it's an old-fashioned dome caratic campaign that could work. it's that this whole presidential election is about what's going to happen on budget and taxes. >> yes. let's not forget the senate either. we haven't talked about it. chuck todd talked about is in his segment. we all thought a year or two ago that republicans really had the edge in the senate because of all the democratic seats that were up. we don't know based on some of these races in the dakotas for example, we don't know what's going to happen. if the republicans don't win the senate, they're not going to be able to patz evss it. >> one of the reasons the senate

looks much more favorable to democratens ths than it idea be because votes are being hung around senate candidates' necks. >> they're going on the attack defending the obama health care plan defending the republicans. >> i want to do two things. i want to borouuorougurrow into. the way it's been pitched by conservatives, "wall street journal," mitt romney, as a grand ideological choice as the size and role of government. i don't think that's true. we'll talk about that and bring in klein right after this. [ male announcer ] at scottrade,

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i don't think that's true. do t, it's just too hard." then there was a moment. when i decided to find a way to keep going. i don't think that's true. college too. [ male announcer ] every day we help students earn their bachelor's or master's degree for tomorrow's careers. this is your moment. let nothing stand in your way. devry university, proud to support the education of our u.s. olympic team. we know what direction we want to go. we want the paul ryan bunt. we just need a president to sign this stuff. it will be coming out of the house and the senate.

pick a republican with enough working digits to handle a pen to become president of the united states. >> welcome back. i have with me at the table mississippi harris-perry. i miss you because you have your own show now. we also have, if i'm not mistaken we have ezra klein, a msnbc contributor. >> yes, you do. >> ezra klein, you have spent more than a little bit of time on the ryan budget, talking to paul ryan, looking at the facts and figures. does the -- what does the paul ryan budget do in sort of simplest broadest strokes? >> oak. there are two things here that are important to separate those. what the paul ryan budget does and then what it says it does because these are actually different things in important ways. the big things a paul ryan

budget actually does is, one, it changes medicare dramatically. the first iteration of the paul ryan budget in 2010, i believe, essentially limited medicare, what most everybody in medicare is in now completely and it moved it to a vouter prach. you get private insurance and the way they were going to save money is get that. but the check was going to grow at a very slow rate. a year later, they were too big on that. they ended up with the new thing which mitt romney also supports. you can choose medicare, the normal one, in addition to the normal ones. the check gross somewhat less slowly but you're trying to transition it over to a private system. the over thing it does is a tax reform. it increases defense spending in certain ways. what's also important and the thing that is really fundamentally raddic cal.

he says it will take up 3.75% of gdp. that means everything. food safety, defense, infrastructure, roads, everything you can think of. less than 4% of gdp. the way you know it cannot be done is mitt romney says he will never let defense spending alone get under 4% gdp. he'll set the floor on that. >> what if you have negative 2.5% gdp in social program in which you expect people to pay into the program. melissa harris-perry, this raises something that will not be at the middle of the debate because of the way the de-bates work, but a huge part of the budget is going after things, largely the poor. they estimate that two thirds of the cut come from programs to

the poor. looks to cut medicaid spending by a third, which is a tremendous amount. what impact do you think that has? do you u see that figuring in the campaign? i that's i think is a really opening question. >> i think the only way it figures in the campaign is if president obama decides and the obama campaign decides that they're going to distinguish themselves from their opponents on this issue on how they're going to address the most vulnerable americans. if they say, look, what the romney pick is, the only way we believe we can get out of economic crisis is by blangs on the shoulders of those least able to carry the burden and we believe that because these will be the most disenfranchised going not only into the 2012 but long tell term. basically making a political calculus saying it's tock go after their social, noejic,

health, social security. >> we're neglecting some pretty important things here. they cut money over the next 10 to 12 years. it gross gdp at plus 4.5% and also for people under the age of 556789. >> but the medicare, two points about that. i'm glad you brought that up. a, the medicare cuts are on payments to insurers rather than on the customer's side. >> let's have that debate. let's have that debate. ryan keeps the medicare cuts. that's the bad them. him and president obama have the same. they get it in different ways but they keep the cuts. it's not like he's repealing the

cuts. >> this is a very important ideological bedrock here. i'm glad you said that. we forgoter the tea party. pause that for a second because i want to bring in andrea mi mitchell who's on the scene, correspondent and anchor of msnbc ""andrea mitchell reports"". they got a big crowd together. >> they started working on this yesterday morning. they clearly knew this was supposed to be the rally, the kick-off to the bus tour but then it became so much more. you can see behind me george allen involved in a very tight race and always tim kaine and this is part of the reason why virginia is so important. this senate race is as close as can be an this is a military, of course, norfolk, the navy base, and this is going to be a very

favorable place. we understand that paul ryan and his family will be here, of course, for the kick-off. we've got a couple of indications of what he's going to say from the campaign. he's going to say that governor romney is the man for the moment and together they can restore the dreams and greatness of this country. he's going to talk about how proud he's been to represent wisconsin and he's going to talk about the challenges that lie ahead. you guys have been talking about the contrasts here, the contrasts that were made clear. one of the things we talked about earlier is they're going have to right away confront the medicare issue, the medicare cuts that the congressional budget office says would take place in the ryan budget and already i've seen a tweet just now from marco rubio who, of course, was passed over for this job. marco rubio, one of the big

stops is tweeting that when will barack obama save medicare because it will be bankrupted if something isn't done. so that is likely to be their line of defense and it's going to be a tough one to fight on medicare going into an older population in florida, chris. >> andrea mitchell, live in norfolk. we'll be coming back to you as we watch this unfold. we're sketed to hear from both men very shortly. thanks so much. we'll be right back. ♪ you do

♪ something to me ♪ that nobody else could do we're sketed to hear from both

all right. we're back discussing the big news. the choice of mitt romney putting ryan on his ticket. we're getting into the weeds of what it looks like in terms of medicare, and you made this point about the cuts to medicare. i think that's -- the rb that i think that's a really key point is, a, people forget how ee senn chalg they were in the political argument that folks who were elected as essentially tea party

insurgents used it. the one line why it was bad in swing districts around the country is that it cut medicare. and the reason that's important is there's this desire on the part of paul ryan and "the wall street journal" to talk about this election as grand battle of competing visions, about how big government is going to be. there's zero evidence. it is a question of who that government benefits. they did not go down under ronald reagan. did not go down under george w. bush and tom delay. and paul ryan was sitting there along with rick san tomorrow, voting time and time again for instance the medicare part d medicare benefit. paul ryan cast the deciding vote for because it passed by one vote in the house. so the idea that before we even get to the question of which

vision of government do we want to choose between this grand ideological -- i ran here and some, i don't know, collect activist strawman here i e refuse to see the premise. there's no record that there are. >> i think that's why the paul ryan pick because so important, right? because there was a demand for let's have that argument. let's have the actually agenda that does attempt to get the fiscal situation under control. >> bhoo should we believe that? >> i don't think it is about getting fiscal situation under control. i agree with you when you you say i if -- okay. why do you pick someone from the eastern states if you're from the eastern states. the answer is an ideological

core. he's saying i'm against single pair, no, because you two work for an individual mandate. there are a variety of things where he's on both sides of them over and over in the matter of governor, on this discussion he dhooser chooses an ideological accurate. >> look at the stage set. look at the announcement. it's a warship. what he has proposed, his current budget, calls for a massive decrease in defense spending. we've already doubled it in 201. they're calling for a bigger

increase in front of a warship. while saying the banding is setting a restraint. >> ott only that. they're doing everything in their power to extricate themselves from the cuts that were agreed to as part of the sequester that we're told is lacking. we will bind ourselves and we will do so by making sure that each limb is going to be cut off, right? smug and now they're in the process of undoing that deal. the point is if most was made to shrink the deficit, can't it last the same months. we should we trust the republican party to produce fiscal discipline that it has not produced in the past. >> and why are we subject to

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good morning. i'm chris hayes. we're awaiting the announcement of mitt romney of his vice president. i'm joined by rachel maddow and

melissa harris-perry and ezra klein, that was a call back before the phone if you're joining us. also avehicle roy. we were talking about -- we're talking about the fact that paul ryan is about to be announced as the vice-presidential nominee or not officially nominee. and we were talking about the fact of whether we're going to have that. particularly i'm making case that even if that's whoo people sate is there's no record of the republican government saying it. ezra, you wanted to pipe in on that. >> they want to do a tax cut that is probably going to explode tell deficit or significantly increase taxes on the middle class. i do think it's fair to say that this period has been radicalizing for republicans in a very particular since which is that faced with needing to come up with an economic they'ry of

why the bush years went so wrong, the basic period they have settled on is massive cuts to social insurance programs. we can't say on the one hand the ryan budget is this basically dangerous political toxic document that i've voted for at multiple times, but on the other hand they show they don't want to take the heat for it. romney has modified the cuts. what hee is done is directly dran conian cuts to medicare, housing security, he'll instead blocker it to the united states. what republicans have been willing to vote is the massive safety net for the poor and it's

big and bigger than anything we've seen in recent years and both romney and ryan have been in lockstep on it. it's the only thing romney has actually identified as cuts he would make. >> i just want to show paul ryan's record. so paul ryan is actually a sitting member of koj. he's not just a guy who writes manifes manifestos. he takes vote. voted for the bush era tax cuts. extend the bush era tax cuts. t.a.r.p., $224 billion, voted for that. authorizing military force in iraq, $853 billion. those are his votes. we're not even talking in the abstract. paul rye ran was sitting there making the votes. what's driving them crazy is you burn the house down and now

there's no house. it was the republican party that oversaw the massive increase in deficits and believes it. now the same person is going to use that as a way he wanted to be elected. >> before we went to break, you and rachel were saying why should we believe them. i guess the real question is who's the we. w who's the wee that's around ideological pick. the fact is do wi belief them. no, because we look at the impeeral evidence. but what's going to happen is the story's going to be this. you don't need a social safety net for the poor in you create jobs.

this is going to be the story line. you'll be able to go to the grocery store and buy food with your wages. you won't need the food security programs. that's the story and the reason that works so beautifully is because they've been winning the ideological battle with a "we" that's not "us." >> and the rewe sight it in europe. >> you cannot say seven minutes ago in the program that barack obama cut $750 million in medicare and later say it's -- >> leaving that aside. the broad structure of entitlements -- -- remember, we're adding a lot of spendings. there's a lot of new spends associated with that. there's going to be a lot of spending trajectory. who's that going to affect?

if we don't reform it. >> who are going to be age to get it. >> you said both paul ryan and he have voted for the precise same number in medicare. mitt romney has the independent payment advisory board. it would do a lot of the pavement side. paul ryan wants to turn it into a voucher program. those are different visions and we can debatd them. this thing that democrats have not put forward and it's a myth. you can switch back and forth. >> the attack is democrats want to do nothing about the out-of-control die months and they're draz lickty cutting the

entitle mustn'ts. >> the only run is because the paul ryan plifts and was voted on by rubnd in congress. find your oldest person and ask if you like medicare. give them the message they have to buy it on their own. yes, you will get tl robust age. >> it will not challenge anyone over 65. >> ask someone who's 54. that will be pretty unpopular too. >> bus that's no restretches. >> wait a sont skopd. >> either we're indicating koufts or we're not. the point is what you're sort of

saying what's on the table and we can stipulate to, what's stipulated to is when you look at the long-term physical element of the country medicare. their's combined at two things. when you put those two things together you end up eating more of the federal budget. it ends up being what to do. interest ice different ways go at, right? there's the idea you have as in the affordable care act, they look at evidence-based science and these kinds of prursd work. they keep people out of the hospitals sore you push people in the private market. and thin that began choice in

competition. i want to be clear what we erie debaging here? the point is if we're name the whormd. the poll tibs flip payment. o what's inconvenient. >> think that's a fair fight for conservatives that choice in con pechl tigs. >> that will not be the debeat thal occurs between r.i.m. and him. ask the 54-year-old do you wanted me care to exist in it current form. do you want it to exist in this form or that form. that's the story. >> the debaelt's going to be fwh the word oufl paul ryan. vij visits and i know -- the difference between gr dwer it's the difference between individual yiechl and statism.

there are millions of people on medicate and medicare. we're not chosening between these massively world views. >> ezra. >> i think what's going to happen for mitt romney and paul ryane because they got this tax plan is why are you making these very difficult cuts to medicare, which as avik points out have real implications. why are you malking them. that is the thing they can't budget. well, maybe you can make this argument. but you can't say we -- the situation is so tarmtd from 45 yrss and under pa h. at the same time we can give trillions of door lours and

crash comes. romney and ryan have the same visibility in. >> the top percent is the left ever, 20% in 2010. 25%. it's at essentially below its possible bound. >> cha is why the obama campaign is going to have to make the case. i mean as irritating it as may people empirically it's not there. it's not some big statist position, it's not none of those things. it's a conservative plan. so what the obama campaign is going to have to do is make very clees he the case that they very interesting in coverage. and they're interested ma making

sure as we come back from this fill cal left. we do so. >> hold that thought. i want to bring in john nicholls. associate editor for capital times and a lifelong wisconsinite and knows ryan quite well. if you looks. 19% view him unl favorably and 54% dot know hit pickle. he's extremely well known ochlt but not that well known in the kun true. the question is how good is the position tishian. he's won fairly comfortable. how good a competition is paul ryan? >> well, he's quite goochld paul ryan is a charming man. he's one of those people who you

can criticize to your face. he'd do very well on the show today. he wouldn't be screams, make j is rah look a little edgegy on hesitate nigh, knolled to bane. if you follow media and heed fwrap imfact politics. paul ryan comes from a congressional city that has a dress sict that has know off the radar. mach isn't in hadn't disstrbt. washington is not in his distrubt. hi bridge to qualify ads a nigh guy hoye shoat up at the pa ray. many pult,erer

many people were shocked. last year when he held town meetings after he came into the national spot light, those meetings with literally packed at speaking at him. he's another knee sew so well tee fiped in fun the grind until vir rerely. >> i think it's also make up the pot that ho media journalistism circles are. paul ryan is not controversial the right. he's the essential kplois. paul ryan is a very, very controversial choice for the rest of the country and that tells you why rick romney help you going. you pick somebody to let now lot your own own base.

this is about making right mitt romney more. not making tontry actually i thijs the 32 try dressed. >> for ripe and lomny so. slay afly ray clel. this is a pick of the peer pick. both in the case of the obama clinton primaries and now again with romney runs, when someone's been in the public eye for a very long time, there's no room for a campaign. that 54% is a campaign. >> we're going to listen live as governor mcdonnell finish out his speech as mitt romney announces his vice president ticket mate. >> that is which candidates got the investigation and the ideas to gitd the greatest condition i on earth, out of debtbling back to to work.

on the 1-800-hand we've got tt obama vision and, mr. president, with all due respect, that's failed mek now for the las 3 17b8d 2 years. but then we've tt gop, the great opportunity party in its vision and its candidate. >> we've got that incredible reagan romney enthusiastic ambition that recognizes the american dream that if you work hard and pursue opportunity and give your god-given talents you can still be anything you want to be in this angry of of america. 100 y508s ago, par farm boy from mayo county ireland left on a ship and landed in massachusetts. that was nigh grand in a glool fab factory as a eye grew irand

a pammer rj he didn't realize he would end up in the same joj as thomas jefferson. that ee e the united states of midterm. so being an average middle class kid from fairfax county i'm thrilled to be the governor. doing things and support and expand and offing for our middle class classes in america. governor romney has put forth a visitary five-point plan. >> gets people back to work because you did but up. and when you provide jobs grow provide them for another people. to get our great country out of debt by balancing the budget within the next eight years and

he ooh kwok to have have rm march something to be able to da that. those things that are necessary to create the work force of the future. to be able to have a sustainable energy future. this president's got no plan. grochl romney has gone an all of the above god-given naurt resources to promode merge independency indense pence. that's going to create jobs for a long time. ladies and gentlemen, you know the issues and you now the ideas of mitt romney romney. but what i want to say above all else what really matters is heart and character and scripture and passion. the scriptures say lack of people purred. one of the loneliest plooiss

you'll ever find p is inside the oval office. the president of the united states has got to have faith and know what they believe and make the right decisions for the people of the united states. that's what you get with r.i.m. he's a man of faith, principle, successful as governor, successful run in the ee olympics. he's great family man. 5 kids 18 grandkids let's been jim real. he's got a deep and abiding love for america, what it stands for and the great american dream. so ladies and gentlemen, pleesz welcome the next of the united states, gloorj mitch romney. [ chee and applause ]

>> thank you. thank you. wow, what a welcome. thank you so much, virginia! hey, guys. thank you so much. what a great governor you have. what a terrific man and a terrific leader, way to go. [ chanting ]

mitt! mitt! mitt! >> thank you so much. it's great to be back in virginia and here in norfolk. your city's beauty is matched only by its proud hair talk as a defender of freedom. thank you, virginia, thank you, norfolk. today we take another step forward in helping restore the promise of america as we move forward in this campaign and on to help lead the nation to better days. it's an honor to announce my running mate and the next vice president of the united states, paul ryan. [ cheers and applause ]

his leadership begins with character and values. paul is a man of tremendous character, shaped in large part by his early life. paul's father died when he was in high school. that forced him to grow up earlier than any young man should. but paul did with the help of his devoted mother, his brother s and sister and a supportive community and as he did, he internalized the virtues and hard-working ethic of the midwest. paul ryan works in washington, but his beliefs remain firmly rooted in janesville, wisconsin. he's a person of great steadiness whose integrity is unquestioned and whose word is good. paul's upbringing is obvious in how he's conducted himself throughout his life, including his leadership in washington, in a city that's far too often characterized by pettiness and

personal attacks, paul ryan is a shining exception. he doesn't demonize his opponents. he understands that honorable people can have honest differences and he appeals to the better angels of our nature. a lot of people in the other party who might disagree with paul ryan. i don't know of anyone who doesn't respect his character and judgment. [ cheers and applause ] >> paul is in public life for all the right reasons. not to advance his personal ambition, but to advance the ideals of freedom and justice and to increase opportunity and prosperity to people of every class and faith, every age and ethic background. a faithful carolina coastline, paul believes in the worth and dignity of every human life.

with energy and vision, paul ryan has become an intellectual leader of the republican party. he understands the fiscal challenges facing america, our exploding deficits and crushing debt and the fiscal catastrophe that awaits us if we don't change course. he combines a profound sense of responsibility from what we owe the next generation with an unbounded optimism in america's future and an understanding of all the wonderful things the american people can do. paul also combines firm principles with a practical concern for getting things done. he neefrs been content to simply curse the darkness. he'd rather light candles. and throughout his legislative career he's shown the ability to work with members of both parties to find common ground on some of the common issues

confronting the merge people. so paul and i are beginning on a journey that will take us to every corner of america. we're offering a positive governing agenda that will lead to economic growth, to widespread and shared prosperity and will improve the lives of our fellow citizens. [ cheers and plaus ] u our plan to strengthen the middle class will get america back to work and get our country back on track. [ cheers and applause ] >> we offer solutions that are bold, specific, and achievable. we offer our commitment to help create 12 million new jobs and to bring better take-home pay to middle-class families.

to strengthen the middle class, we'll provide our workers and children with the skills to succeed. we'll cut the deficit, have trade that works for america, and champion small business, and finally, we'll unleash our energy resources to achieve north american energy independence. [ cheers and applause ] >> we will help care for those who can't care for themselves, and we will return work to welfare. as poverty has risen to historic and tragic levels with nearly one out of six americans now having fallen into poverty, we will act to bring these families into the middle class, unlike the current president who's cut

medicare funding by $700 billion, we will preserve and protect medicare and social security and keep them there for future generations. and under the current president, health care's only become more expensive. we're going to reform health care so more americans have access to affordable health care and we'll get that started by repealing and replacing obama care. at a time when the president's campaign is taking american politics to new lows, we're going to do something very differently. we're going to talk about aspirations and american ideals, about bringing people together to serve to solve the urgent problems facing our nation.

and when that message wins in america, it will be a victory for every american. today's a good day for america, and there are better days ahead. join me -- [ cheers and applause ] >> join me in welcoming the next president of the united states, paul ryan. ♪

♪ ♪ [ cheers and applause ] >> wow. hey. and right in front of the "uss

wisconsin," huh? man! >> every now and then i'm known to make a mistake. i did not make a mistake with this guy. but i can tell you this. he's going to be the next vice president of the united states. >> governor romney, ann, thank you. i am deeply honored and excited to join you as your running mate. i want to tell you about mitt romney.

mitt romney is a leader with the skills, the background, and the character that our country needs at this crucial time in its history. following four years of failed leadership, the hopes of our country, which have inspired the world, are growing dim. they need someone to revive them. governor romney is the man for this moment. and he and i share one commitment. we will restore the greatness of this country. i want you to meet my family. this is my wife janna.

our daughter liza and our sons charlie and sam. i'm surrounded by the people i love. i love you too. and i've been asked by governor romney to serve the country that i love. janesville, wisconsin, is where i was born and raised, and i never really left it. it's our home now. for the last 14 years, i have proudly represented wisconsin in congress. there i have focused on solving the problems that confront our country, turning ideas into action and action into solutions. i am committed in heart and mind

to putting that experience to work in a romney administration. [ cheers and applause ] this is a crucial moment in the life of our nation, and it is absolutely vital that we select the right man to lead america back to prosperity and greatness. that man -- that man is standing right next to me. his name is mitt rimnomneromney will be the next president of the united states of america. my dad died when i was young. he was a good and decent man. there are few things he would say that have just always stuck with me. he'd say, son, you're either

part of the problem or part of the solution. well, regrettably, president obama has become part of the problem and mitt romney is the solution. the other thing my dad would always say is that every generation of americans leaves their children better off. that's the american legacy. sadly for the first time in our history we are on a path which will undo that legacy. that is why we need new leadership to become part of the solution, new leadership to restore prosperity, economic growth, and jobs. [ cheers and applause ]

>> it is our duty to save the american dream for our children and theirs. i believe -- i believe there is no person in america who is better prepared because of his experience, because of the principles he holds, and because of his achievements and excellence in so many different arenas to lead america at this point in our history. let me say a word about the man mitt romney is about to replace. no one disputes that president obama inherited a difficult situation. and in his first two years with his party in complete control of

washington he passed nearly every item on his agenda, but that didn't make things better. in fact, we find ourselves in a nation facing debt, doubt, and despair. this is the worst economic recovery in 70 years. unemployment has been above 8% for more than three years. the longest run since the great depression. families are hurting. we have the largest deficits and the biggest federal government since world war ii. nearly one out of six americans are in poverty, the worst rate in a generation. moms and dads are struggling to make ends meet. household incomes have dropped more than $4,000 over the past four years. whatever the explanations, whatever the excuses, this is a record of failure.

president obama and too many like him in washington have refused to make difficult decisions because they're more worried about their next election than they are about the next generation. [ cheers and applause ] we might have been able to get away with that before, but not now. we're in a different and dangerous moment. we're running out of time. and we can't afford four more years of this. politicians from both parties have made empty promises, which will soon become broken promises with painful consequences if we fail to act now.

i represent a part of america that includes inner cities, rural areas, suburbs, and factory towns. over the years i have seen and heard from a lot of families, from a lot of those who are running small businesses, and from people who are in need. but what i've heard lately, that's what troubles me the most. there's something different in their voice, in their words. what i hear from them are diminished dreams, lowered expectations, uncertain futures. i hear some people say that this is just the new normal. >> no! >> higher unemployment, declining incomes, and crushing debt is not a new normal. [ cheers and applause ]

>> it is the result of misguided policies, and next january, our economy will begin a comeback with the romney plan for a stronger middle class that will lead to more jobs an more take-home pay for working americans. [ cheers and applause ] >> america's on the wrong track, but mitt romney and i will take the right steps in the right time to get us back on the right track. i believe that my record of getting things done in congress will be very helpful complement to governor romney's executive and success outside of washington.

i've worked closely with republicans as well as democrats to advance an agenda of economic growth, fiscal discipline, and job creation. i'm proud to stand with a man who understands what it takes to foster job creation in our economy, someone who knows from experience that if you have a small business, you did build that. [ cheers and applause ] >> that's right. at bain capital, he launched new businesses, and he turned around failing ones. companies like staples, bright horizons, sports authority just to name a few. mitt romney created jobs, and he showed he knows how a free economy works. at the olympics, he took a failing enterprise and made it the pride of our entire nation.

that's something. [ cheers and applause ] >> as governor of massachusetts, he worked with democrats and republicans to balance budget without increasing taxes, lower unemployment, increase income, and improve people's lives. in all these things, mitt romney has shown himself to be a man of achievement, excellence, and integrity. janna and i tell liza, charlie, and sam that america is a place where if you work hard and play by the rules, you can get ahead.

we look at one another's success with pride, not resentment because we know -- we know that as more americans work hard, take risks, succeed more, people will prosper. our communities will benefit and our individual lives will be uplifted and improved. america is more than just a place though. america is an idea. it's the only country founded on an idea. our rights come from nature and god, not from government.

[ cheers and applause ] >> that's right. that's who we are. that's how we built this country. that's who we are. >> usa! usa! usa! >> that's what made us great. that's our founding. we promise equal opportunity, not equal outcomes. and this idea was founded on the principles of liberty, freedom, free enterprise, self-determination, and government by consent of the governed.

this idea, this idea's under assault. so we have a critical decision to makes a a nation. we're on an unsustainable path that is robbing america of our freedom and security. it doesn't have to be this way. the commitment mitt romney and i make to you is this. we won't duck the tough issues, we will lead. [ cheers and applause ] we won't blame others. we will take responsibility. and we won't replace our

founding principles. we will reapply them. that's what we will do. we will honor you, our fellow citizens, by giving you the opportunity to make the choice. what kind of country do we want to have? what kind of people do we want to be? with can turn this thing around. we can. we can turn this thing around, real solutions can be delivered, but it will take leadership and

the courage to tell you the truth. mitt romney is this kind of leader. i'm excited for what lies ahead. i'm thrilled to be a part of america's comeback team, and together we will unite america and get this done! [ cheers and applause ] >> thank you. thank you very much. thanks. thank you. ♪ i was born free i was born free ♪ ♪ i was born free ♪ born free ♪ free like a river ranging strong ♪ >> that is paul ryan, seven-term congressman from janesville,

wisconsin, announcing along with mitt romney that he will be the vice-presidential nominee on the republican ticket. mitt romney started the speech and the introduction was something of a flub in which he said, please welcome the next prp of the united states. paul ryan came up, put his hand around paul ryan's shoulder and said sometimes i make mistakes but not with this guy and corrected himself. paul ryan giving a speech largely decrying the economic state of the country, crying debt, doubt, and despair and every generation leaves their children better and and facing the prospect of that no longer being the case. short and ujds emphasized on the ryan budget which is kind of the thing paul ryan is known for in political journalism circles. at one point he even says, no one disputes the president inherited a difficult situation

but whatever the explanation now that's unacceptable. things are bad. the current occupant should be voted down. if things were good they should be re-elect bud they should not. >> i think they're doing the best with the challenges they've got with paul ryan as the nominee. visually and in terms of the overall impression, it's a dad and lad look. they go together well. that like each other. the chemistry with the giant flub it was a nice chemistry. the big issue is they want it to be a referendum on obama and not a choice. paul ryan makes it a choice. and so in his speech he does not talk about what the choice of him means. he does not talk about what's in it. but he does play up to his brand as a guy who is serious and will do -- take honorable sacrifices for the nation in terms of the nation's long-term interest. speaking to the brand and not the specifics. they have to try to stick with that. but whenever anybody else starts talking about what the specifics are that paul ryan is offering he's going to be the kill

medicare. >> let me read the response that the obama campaign said. mitt romney has chosen a leader of the house republican who shares his commitment to the ft. lauderdale theory that new budget-busting tax cuts for the wealthy while placing greater burdens on the middle class and seniors will somehow deliver a stronger economy. as a member of congress, ryan rubber-stamped the reckless bush ek knowledgic policies than exploded our deficit and crashed our economy. now the romney-ryan ticket -- >> i'm sorry this will not be the headline that comes out of this speech but given what we were talking about, one of the biggest crowd reaction moments was mitt romney, he's up there, introducing paul ryan who is an icon because he is going to finally go after the entitlement state. that's why we like paul ryan. he has the kurnl to do it and he

intro tuesdays him and introduces him by attacking the president for $700 billion to cuts in medicare which got a rowdy and throaty and heartfelt set of boos from the audience and i think it speaks to the point how complicated and tangled how

where he's told he's going to be taking a vacation with his family but instead he's going to be doing some fund-raisers. i think they've decided the is a

base election. this is not a pick for suburban moms or suburban women. >> that's a great point. our sound is a little muddy, so we're having a hard time hearing you but andrea mitchell making point is this is a base election of who it appeals to and andrea making an important point and i'm getting i'm here from a bunch of progressive women's groups about paul ryan's record on choice, on things like birth control. he's ardently pro-life, they voted 59 times in the direction. >> can i also just say can you imagine the uproar if two democrats who had never served in the military and do not have family service, history of serving in the military literally ran out of a battleship and onto the podium to declare the vice-presidential -- if two democrats used this battleship and using this

military setting, a setting essentially as a stage set themselves as people who don't have that background. it's one thing for bob mcdonnell to do that. we were talking about that. wanting to increase defense spending but it's also the optics and the double standard on that issue just as a social issue just is offensive. >> i should note also -- i at first was like, wait a minute, you can't use it. it's a decommissioned battleship. it's a museum. it's a set piece. >> that they're using as a stage set to imply they have military experience. >> or just go back to the -- look, what they giev to do is try to take away what president obama has which is, in part, an impressive record on foreign policy for hocs. in terms of the drone attack, in terms of the death of osama bin

laden so part of this is going back. it is interesting that it's decommissioned and a set piece. it makes it almost more perfect, right? we're going to back to the set piece decommissioned moment of the republican party. >> it's like mission impossible. it's like the last time i've seen a political event with bunting. >> and then you mean mission accomplished as opposed to mission impossible? >> that was a freudian slip. >> there was a question as to whether it was going to be on a -- >> andreandrea's point was righ. this was a speech that sent tingles up the leg. this is about energizing the base to a large degree. >> i agree about the pick but i found the speech was actually a pret -- what i thought was interesting about the speech is they understand that the way

that ryan is going to be portrayed and i think quite accurately on the subject of the policies he's advocating as someone who wants to increase the benefits of the rich and doesn't care about the poor and there was much more talk about the poor and poverty in this speech than i've seen in a very long time. paul ryan talked about 1 in 6 in poverty, mitt romney talked about 1 in 6 in poverty. they talked about the decline of housing income as $4,000. that's in real terms. all of these are true statistics about an economy that's truly in pad shape. you wanted to say something about that. >> one thing that's striking, and i goes to the battleship as well. i've about seen a lot of paul ryan's speech and he's a very good speech giver. the two candidates were kind of taking away what the other had. paul ryan wasn't able to be sub stabbive. the whole thing that he has, his ability to be very specific is to be neutered by the romney

campaign and conversely you had him come plea meanting romney for having business experience which ryan doesn't have, complementing him for being there. he's been in washington for decades and decades. you have this idea of amply fig picks that when bill clinton runs he gets another young southerner like al gore. when you look at it, why he picks him as president, he's got business experience, not part of the washington mess and coming from the outside, ryan is part of all of this. he's part of the washington mess, doesn't have business experience, very aggressive policy reformer whereas romney says he's an economic manager. it's striking. i don't understand how they're going to handle these contradictions but issues on the campaign trail. the more undermined some of romney's policy ideas. >> one thing i think is interesting is the degree to which emphasis stays on ryan. i mean what was so remarkable,

bizarre and somewhat unprecedented is that sarah palin became the center of that campaign, which is not really what you want when you run for president more or less. right now obviously, paul ryan's the center story because today's the big day he ice announced and that will continue to be the case. i can see this going in two directions. i can see paul ryan really becoming a more central focus of the campaign or you can see him reseeding in the way that a vice-presidential ticket maker would be, seen as an sill -- >> conservatives and liberals will both want paul ryan and the mass middle will not. >> both of them agree on where to take the country. so it's not going to be an overshadowing because they're both going to be talking about the same agenda. >> there's going to be a little more overshadowing because paul ryan is a little more interesting to watch when giving a speech. i don't think so.

>> i feel like, oh, yeah, okay. even when he's giving me bad news, i don't feel the same sense of i'd like to turn the television off like i do when i hear mitt romney talk. just the one thing. i think the joe biden/paul ryan debate might be wonk heaven. there's a lot of specifics there and lots of years in congress. they fierng to have a lot to say. >> that will be fun. two catholics. i want to thank nation's magazine matt nicholls. >> i'll be around. >> joining us from washington, d.c. thanks to melissa harris-perry which you can see tomorrow here at 9:00 a.m. i believe. >> at 11:00. >> sorry. health care adviser to mitt romney, avik roy and rachel ma dough host on msnbc. thanks for getting up with us. next the olympics