of our u.s. olympic team. mitt romney decided to go bold instead of cautious and picked u.s. congressman paul ryan of wisconsin to be his running mate. he's young, energetic, smart, and a policy wonk and might help him in the midwest. he's the dream candidate, tough on social programs and a warrior against the welfare state and entitlement programs but he's a poster child for what the democrats will say is heartless conservatism and turning most of the savings over to the wealth in the form of tax cuts, joining

me is ed rendell, the former governor. pennsylvania msnbc political analyst and governor rendell, this looks to be one of the clearest elections in terms of ideology we're likely ever to see, it's almost like the toreys against the british labor party. big difference in ideology. >> no question. the one thing you can't underrate, chris, i think ryan is a very good messenger, if you looked at his speech i thought it came across as personable energetic, nonthreatening, so i think he's going to be an effective campaigner and i expect governor romney will get a little bit of bump out of this. his message is the problem. the message even the toned-down ryan message is disastrous to the republican party. >> let's talk about older states like pennsylvania where you have people that do worry that all they have going for them is the social security check c medicare and the medicaid without which they would be in real trouble

depending on their kids who may not even have a job to help them with. >> chris, that's a good point which one of your previous guests missed when he said seniors aren't going to be threatened because ryan's medicare proposals don't take effect to anybody over 55. but as you know a ton of seniors receive their aid from medicaid. >> sure. >> and when medicaid's getting these severe almost irrational cuts, that's going to hurt those seniors dramatically. so, in delaware county one of the oldest counties in america, pennsylvania, the third oldest state in america, florida, the oldest state in america, it's going to be tough sledding for these guys. >> you know, michelle thank you for coming on tonight. it seems to me you're a moderate, you're somewhere in the middle so i'd love to know what you think. when i hear a guy like ryan i hear the way i used to read for romantic purposes i love reading ayn rand because those books are great, most people have problems and they're not entirely on their own and they need help. and he still acts like the young

ideologue that says every man and woman for themselves we don't need all these social programs. that's basically what he's saying. >> it's basically what he's saying but it's not quite the way he says it. i mean you know, what genius in romney picking him is that he is young, he's got a boyish quality. >> yeah. >> he is very easy to listen to. the problem is when we're talking about very difficult economic -- actually let me take a step back chris. the other thing that's important about ryan on the ticket is that the one thing ryan said when he was announced as the vp pick which is something we need to hear from republicans and democrats is that we are willing to tell the american people the truth, we are willing to tell the american people the tough things and we know that entitlement reform is one of those tough things. here's the negative. when we are -- when we are having very difficult economic times as we are right now, all americans, and i would say republicans -- republicans and democrats alike look at the social safety net and if you go and you look at the things that paul ryan has proposed in, you know budget proposals after budge proposals, they are very

draconian in effect. and one of the things i think we should also mention today if you -- one of the first things that came out of paul ryan's mouth this morning, also came out of romney's was reforming welfare, you know, and talking about president obama gutting welfare. if you go and you take a look we know that this is going to be part of their campaigning over the next few months go and take a look at the new romney ad that accused president obama of gutting all of bill clinton's welfare reforms, it's something that's small but shouldn't be lost on the american public particularly people of color. every single person portrayed in that ad as a middle-class worker is white. there is not one person of color in that ad and i think that it's portraying something that is going to be covert and it's going to be very nasty and coming down the pike. >> you saw manassas didn't you? where were people in the whole color in the crowd? >> there was not one person of color. >> it seems like this person has chosen his side. they're going to cut medicaid and poor people they think, they're not going to get those

votes. they didn't go to a hispanic background personal for the candidate. it looked like they tried to double down on the white majority for their votes without admitting it. >> yeah there's no question. i want to correct michelle on one thing, he was not introduced as the vice presidential candidate but the presidential candidate. >> what do you think the freudian slip, it wasn't just a gaffe. was he saying i'm the future he's just a transition. >> the freudian is right. >> i'm a troublemaker governor and you know i am. you are obama, the smart guys with the propellers on their heads, like plouffe, they are liking we have a new situation here. we don't have boring mitt we don't have nice guy pawlenty, we've got a guy with a real tiger in his tank here. they're looking for a game change, they are talking about direction change for america. don't i have to do something equally dramatic the one person that isn't on either ticket is the a woman, is there any chance that he'll say, i need a game

changer and i'll put hillary on the ticket. and perfect response to ryan. hilly changes the game completely. >> i think hillary turns this into a land slide. >> ha! that's your quote. >> but it's not going to happen for a lot of reasons, chris. number one, remember before this so-called game change he was up seven and nine and seven in three -- nationwide in three very respectable polls. >> obama was. >> and he was doing better in the swing states number one. number two joe biden has been an important part of the campaign apparatus and joe is somebody that they want out there delivering the message because he delivers it very well. and number three, remember this is a game changer. this isn't exactly a hail mary but this is a play that could either tighten this race and make it very close down the end or blow it apart. and lead to an obama/biden landslide. they don't need hillary, i don't think hillary wants to do it although if they asked, she probably would. and it would be a sign of weakness, and there is no weakness right now.

they've got the game framed the way they want it. the only thing i would say is ryan is as michelle said very personable nonthreatening verbally. exciting youthful. i'm not sure i wouldn't have been a little bit more confident as a democrat with a pawlenty or a portman who wouldn't have any potential to change the game. the game would have just gone along as it's been going along. >> can i add -- >> michelle he gave the guy, mitt romney can't talk about his life, i mean appropriately he doesn't talk about his religion. he doesn't even talk much about his family. he doesn't talk much about his business so you don't have a biography he wants to sell. >> yes. >> out comes ryans talking about himself but not really himself, talking about how great romney -- he waved the banner of bain like it was noter dame. bain a great! first time in history. at the same time romney comes back and says here's the young middle-class guy, he had hard guy that made himself into what he is. he can't sell himself because he's a swell. nothing wrong with it i guess,

but he is a swell he had it made growing up and now this other guy is somebody you can identify with. i think romney found a biography likes, it ain't his, it's the other guy's. >> he found a biography that he likes but all of america likes. everybody likes somebody who has to pull themselves up from the bootstraps and for better or worse has made it. and, you know, let's take a look at paul ryan. they tell the story about losing his father at a young ainge.ge. they talked about the things high father taught him as a young man before he lost and those are things that america likes to hear. >> yeah. >> one of the other thing, you know romney probably looked at in picking paul ryan is that number one, it puts wisconsin's ten electoral votes in play and also, let's face it paul ryan has won a democratic district seven times. romney has to be thinking that that's going to help him to some extent either with democrats, maybe, but also with independents. >> let's watch him in action. here he is congressman ryan of wisconsin hitting president obama hard this morning for how slow the economic recovery has been going.

let's take a listen. >> it is our duty to save the american dream for our children and theirs. no one disputes that president obama inherited a difficult situation. and in his first two years, with his party in complete control of washington, he passed nearly every item on his agenda. but that didn't make things better. in fact, we find ourselves in a nation facing debt doubt, and despair. this is the worst economic recovery in 70 years. >> it's a point of direction, not just contrast. it seems to be they're not just offering a choice governor they're offering a different direction and when you have a current "wall street journal"/nbc poll showing only 31% like the current direction, how do you defend the current direction of this country if you're obama and biden? how do you do it? >> well, one of the things i say, and this is one of ryan's vulnerabilities, i say, look this direction might have been radically different if you guys instead of playing politics had

supported the jobs bill that i put in place last october. >> yeah. >> congressman ryan you voted against the jobs bill you voted against infrastructure, you voted against tax credits for small business you voted against expensing changes for small business. you voted no on everything just for politics and had you guys supported these -- this bill components of which republicans had always supported, we'd have had according to economists somewhere between 1 million and 2 million additional jobs today. >> they also voted for the war without paying for it, he voted for the rich people's tax cuts in 2001 without paying for it he voted for the pharmaceutical addition to medicare without paying for it and now he calls himself a deficit hawk. thank you, governor thank you michelle benard. we'll get a good look at the democrats plan ahead. this is a special live edition of "hardball" place for politics. >> hope and change has now become attack and blame. do you know what? we're not going to fall for it.

we're not going to fall for this kind of rhetoric that says to people that they're stuck in their station in life victim of circumstances outside of their control, and only the government is here to help them cope with it. do you know what that's not who we are. that's not the american idea. that's not the american we know. and it's not the america we're going to have starting next year. max. this is the plan that revolves around you. introducing share everything. unlimited talk. unlimited text. and a single pool of sharable data that powers up to 10 devices. the first plan of it's kind. share everything. only from verizon. add a smartphone for just $40 monthly access.

cranberry juice? wake up! that's good morning, veggie style. hmmm. for half the calories plus veggie nutrition. could've had a v8. this idea's under assault. so, we have a critical decision to make as a nation. we are on an unsustainable path that is robbing america of our freedom and security. it doesn't have to be this way. the commitment mitt romney and i make to you is this -- we won't duck the tough issues. we will lead. >> welcome back to a special

saturday edition of "hardball." paul ryan said he's ready to make the tough choices and he's put out a budget that proves it is. will his presence on the republican ticket satisfy hardcore anti-tax conservatives? we have the expert with us grover norquist is president of americans for tax reform. i guess the fundamental question you have the answer to because you are in many ways the heart to this anti-tax movement. is this a smart move politically for the candidate for president? >> i think picking paul ryan is brilliant and is a strong vice presidential pick. the only reason it's sort of interesting to look at is that the depth of the republican bench is so deep that he could have gone with rubio, he could have gone with walker governor of wisconsin, he could have gone with the governor of louisiana, bobby jindal he could have gone with chris christie. >> but the other two sort of the top three in that have been buzzing about this is pawlenty and portman, you don't think this would have done what ryan did today? >> actually i'm a big fan of both of them --

>> would they have done what ryan did today? >> i think it would have been different because the broad center right is more familiar with brian's work the ryan budget. remember gingrich fell apart in the last campaign when he sort of said well set ryan aside, i've got some other theory and his campaign imploded. the broad center right has accepted the ryan approach. >> yeah. >> doing the -- what clinton did for welfare reform doing that for medicaid and other means-tested programs such as food stamps and jobs programs and so on, doing -- taking the clinton approach on aid to families with dependent children towards means-tested programs that's now accepted in the center right in the same way that the kemp/roth bill was accepted by republicans -- >> okay. >> -- before reagan signed on to it. >> you suggested that paul ryan's of the center right. who would you categorize on the right in the republican congress members of congress who are republicans, who would

be on the right if you say paul ryan's is center right? >> paul ryan's budget -- >> no why is he center right? who is in the right, then? who is on the right? the >> i would consider center right everybody who views the world as reagan did and the 60% of the american people who voted for reagan when he ran on his record in 'your84, when i say center right, center and right. >> okay fine. let me ask you about the spine. looking at this thing from a different perspective, i think what he did in that pick was create a spine for the ticket. a conviction ticket now looks much more like a conviction ticket than an opportunist ticket what do you think? >> clearly because ryan has done what obama and biden didn't do four years ago. they had a couple of slogans and some ideas. but nothing written down. the ryan budget the ryan roadmap, is actually written down and you can look at it. the left thinks that this makes them a target. in point of fact what it really does is says goes back to

obama's budget. his budgets for the next ten years, they're written down too, and they're full of debt and more spending and zero reform on entitlements so -- >> well let me ask you about since you're the expert on it. did ryan sign the pledge that they put out for the members of congress it has sis signature? >> yes, as a congressman he's always signed the pledge and kept the pledge yes. >> let me ask you about this thing we talked about just an hour ago. idea of getting rid of taxes on cap gains, people that make money off money. can you sell that to the middle? you're talking about the center right and the middle there. will the middle of the road person that maybe makes $40,000 here for a family and they make money off of work are they going to like people making money off money getting away scott free? are they going to like that idea? >> well, we do know some history on this. the polling data on the death tax, the estate tax -- >> just about the cap gains, though. >> but many persons pay cap gains at some point in their life. only 2% or 5% of americans are going to pay the death tax in

their life and yet when you ask the americans should the death tax go to zero you get two-thirds of the american people saying yes. so playing to envy or class antagonisms doesn't work on the death tax. my guess is it won't work on capital gains either. when we've cut the capital gains tax and gotten more revenue and more economic growth and more jobs every time we did it that i think is of more important -- importance to unemployed or underemployed people than whether some guy who's worked all his life saved money, makes money on capital gains. >> but look at all the sensitivity you're seeing and this is an objective assessment the sensitivity of romney about releasing his tax returns, that's not a problem perceived as making millions and millions a year maybe $20 million a year and not paying taxes on it. if you create that law that says you can make $20 million a year off other money, money you accumulate like a quarter billion like him you don't think that's a sensitive point? why is it so sensitive with romney, then? he doesn't want to put out his

tax returns. >> first of all, he has put out a couple years of -- >> no just one year and he promised to put out another one. >> which is what other people have done historically however -- >> why is he sensitive about preleasing more tax returns? i'm just asking. >> i don't know the reasoning. i haven't talked to him about that. on the capital gains tax, remember, we in the united states we tax income when you earn it. if you save it in the bank you pay taxes on interest. if you buy stock with it you pay corporate income taxes, you pay corporate capital gains taxes. if the stock goes up you pay capital gains taxes if you're stupid enough to die, they want to steal half. so announcing that you're not going to be taxing the dollar that you earned today five times in the future doesn't mean it's not taxed. it just means it isn't double and triple taxed. >> that's assuming you earned the money yourself it wasn't inherited obvious-. if you inherit the money and live off cap gains and hardly pay any taxes. earlier you spelled out what conservatives should be looking for in a presidential candidate.

let's listen to you, grover. >> okay. >> we just need a president to sign this stuff. we don't need someone to think it up or design it. so focus on electing the most conservative republican who can win in each house seat. and the most conservative republican who can win in each senate seat. and then pick a republican with -- with enough working digits to handle the pen to become president of the united states. >> so does ryan have enough working digits to handle a pen? he's already signed your pledge not to raise taxes. you don't really -- you don't have much romance about the presidency of the united states, do you? you see them basically as an execute for who carries out the will of the people particularly in each issue, for example, on taxes, don't think up there, just do what we tell you. >> actually it came in the context in my talk of pointing out that historically the democratic party has focused on the house and the senate because for 60 70 years their view was we own the house and the senate

we'll never lose those. we will lose the presidency to war heroes because of corruption problems or economic problems. >> right. >> we'll have the house and senate govern from the house and senate. when carter came into office and he wanted to have an energy policy, they told him to go talk to the relevant budget -- you know committee chairmen. when obama came in they said sign our stimulus package. it wasn't written by blcongress. >> what does that tell you about the choice we have about picking a president? does he follow the policy of the congress? is that what you say? >> my argument is that republican party used to have knock-down drag-out fights in choosing their president, reagan/bush, gold water/rockefeller. nixon/rockefeller nixon/rockefeller, pick a different president, you had a different party. to be reagan republicans. >> i hear you. >> so you wouldn't choosing a direction for the republican party. you were choosing somebody -- >> got you. >> -- to administer. >> reagan won.

reagan won. >> yeah. >> thank you, grover norquist. thank you for joining us on this big night for the republican party. up next will the ryan pick energize the tea party activists across the country? this is a special edition of "hardball," the place for politics. >> america is more than just a place, though. america is an idea. it's the only country founded on an idea. our rights come from nature and god, not from government. ♪ intel bong ♪ i've still got hou orsf battery life. it's an ultrabook. i'm good. with an ultrabook, everything else seems old fashioned. introducing the ultra sleek, ultra long-lasting ultrabook.

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what kind of country do we want to have? what kind of people do we want to be? we can turn this thing around. we can. >> we're back. it's no secret that mitt romney the massachusetts moderate of old, has never inspired the tea party wing of the republican party, but paul ryan's a

different story. ryan's budget is often called pea tater fantasy. and his rhetoric chock-full always of phrasing called cutting deficits is right in line with the tea party value system, how much will he energize the tea party activists right now? will he finally feel that they are on his side? matt kibbe is here, and eugene robinson is a columnist with "the washington post." matt, welcome back. >> thank you. >> i would score one for you. when i first heard this i thought this is romney's way of putting a spine in his back and that may be romney'sne or more likely the spine of paul ryan but at least now the ticket has one. >> absolutely. and it's going to force as your other guys have said so far, we're going to have a serious conversation about public policy, and that was always going to happen for republicans and head in the sand strategy is always bad when the democrats are redefining what it is you stand for. >> but when you stick your neck

out, it's like the cavalry has come out of the fort to fight the indians. you're out there now and you're both on horseback and you are fighting with sabers or whatever and tom mohawks you're in the fight, and you have to defend your own body right? you have to defend your own body of work which in this case is a very clear budget plan which has all kinds of pain in it and you have to defend each point of it. is that smart for the republicans? >> well, i think it's essential that we defend good ideas, but i would challenge this whole notion that this is painful. what's painful is the status quo. what's painful is $16 trillion in debt and an administration that wants to spend more money that we don't have. the ryan budget was very much an honest assessment of what we needed to do to fix our government so that our economy could grow again. >> gene everybody talks about paul ryan as the clean kid, and fine, i'll live with the image for a while before we get tougher on him as we get tough on everybody in this business. but he voted for a war we never paid for in iraq which i consider the most dim-witted war

in our history and he never even thought about paying for it and he's supposed to be a fiscal conservative. he did the pharmaceutical the drug piece of medicare which is a great idea for people to get drugs prescription drugs but never thought about paying it for it and he's an ayn rand i'd log that rewards the most ambitious of us, if you will that idea of looking at things. >> right, he doesn't have exactly clean hands in terms of some of the stuff he's voted for in the past. and if you look at his budget it really to the extent that it balances anything it's not really in balance, but to the extent that it is it really imposes draconian cuts on the poor and nothing on the wealthy, so that's a problem. but, you know, it's fascinating that this election really if it's going to come down to a philosophical sort of struggle -- >> yeah. >> -- between individualism and community -- >> yeah. >> -- i don't -- i don't know

how the republicans are going to win that. i don't know how they're going to win with sort of chilly i got mine you get yours approach to life. >> isn't it like ayn rand and all the stuff? i read that book when i was a kid. i read "atlas shrugged" and all that stuff, until you assume that wait a minute there's some people out there disabled and there are some people that didn't get a break like you, and the situations aren't all the same. here's greg sargent saying romney's decision says what it says about the economy. in picking ryan romney's confirming his commitment to full-flown economic radicalism something that he kept well disguised. the central idea driving the gop ticket now is not just a tax hikes on the rich must be avoided at all costs, it's that dramatically reducing the tax burden on the wealthy coupled with deep cuts to social programs and the quasi-voucherizing of medicare is the route back to prosperity. how do you sell matt i know you believe it but how do you sell the fact that you'll get

rid of capital gains taxes, that people that make money off money, don't pay any taxes, how do you sell at the same time you are basically shrinking medicaid for people that depend on it long-term care alzheimer's victims and caregivers how do you tell the person taking care of his wife with alzheimers we're getting rid of medicare meanwhile people with big money you can keep your wealth? >> i really wish you would reread "atlas shrugged." the moral of the story is real working men and women get hurt when they punish innovation and opportunity. that's what's going on today. we hove to get the government under control. the principle on tax reform is a very american principle, treat everybody the same exactly the same as everybody else, politicians don't choose winners and loser. all income is taxed once. the problem -- >> once. >> -- the code we have now is that rich people can hire

lawyers, they can shelter their income. we want it so that simple and fair, everybody's treated the same way because ultimately punishing wealth punishes people not who are wealthy but people who want to get wealthy. >> so a guy driving a truck on long hauls that makes $50,000 a year, $70,000 a year and a person that makes money because a windfall came through on their capital account, one guy should pay a full tax, the other guy should pay nothing, that's fair? >> i keep inviting you to come visit the tea party. they believe that fairness is treating everybody just like everybody else. >> gene from the progressive side, when you look at the democrats right now in chicago, quickly, are they happy with this pick or a little worried about it? what do you think they are? >> a little worried, but mostly happy, because i think it's an ideological battle that democrats believe they can win. and more important, this is not a referendum on -- >> yes. >> -- president obama. >> you've said the word. >> that's what the republicans wanted. that's not what it is. it is a choice. and you put barack obama out there, you put mitt romney out there, i think they believe

barack obama wins that election. >> okay. we've been on the air for an hour and a half and you said the magic word as groucho marx used to say. both have to play defense. thank you, matt kibbe, and thank you, eugene robinson "referendum." good-bye. what is the democrats' plan for the next six months? this is a special edition of "hardball" live. we want to make sure the schools are focused on the kids and the teachers and the teachers union is going to have to take a back seat.

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that was, of course, mitt romney when he announced paul ryan as his running mate. he made the mistake saying he's the next president. the democrats have to figure out their plan of attack because of the fact he's on the ticket. joining me is governor jim doyle and melissa harris perry, host of her show on msnbc. governor doyle, thanks for joining us. you're the hometown democrat here on this program tonight. you know this guy. how was he able to win in russ feingold's district for all those years? >> well that district's been changed around quite a bit. it was once les aspen's district, a great congressman from wisconsin. but it got moved around over the years to become more and more of a republican district and a few years ago has made, you know, they call it a swing district but it's been a relatively safe incumbent protection republican seat. so, it isn't like he's been winning in a heavily democratic area. he's been winning in a district that's gotten changed and to become much more favorable for him. >> and the question --

>> there's no doubt -- >> go ahead. go ahead. >> i was going to say, that said, there's no doubt he's a good campaigner. he works hard at it and, you know, he's gone out and run his campaigns and won those elections. >> melissa, they talk about in defending him, in the run-up to this he's tough on fiscal issues and he's cut social programs he's going to do it with a butcher knife maybe but yet he keeps getting re-elected so, therefore, it must work. that's the argument you hear. >> this is the point i made earlier, he's good in retail politics and they like him in a place like janesville wisconsin, he's a son of the community, he lives right there with his family. all those sorts of things. >> despite his auto industry.

we've got an auto industry in this country and it looked like we might not have one a couple years ago. can you rescue as a campaign message if you're paul ryan, we shouldn't have saved these companies? >> it's going to be hard for him to do that. a major gm plant was closed in his community as a result of eight years and what i see here is a real statement by romney that he's -- he's putting all of his chips on going back into that old economy, and he's even doubling

down as they say by really making sure with ryan who's basic plan is to significantly cut the marginal tax rate on the richest people and then to balance the budget with huge across-the-board cuts on things like pell grants college -- help for middle-class families for college tuition, head start and those kinds of things so, you know, the whole idea that there's going to be an etch-a-sketch strategy and romney was going to move to the center now i think is completely over. this really is a decision to go all the way with let's give the rich a lot of tax breaks and somehow that's going to help the rest of the people in the country. >> will we get more of what we got in the primaries? >> jim doyle has made a critically important point here not only on the etch-a-sketch question, but on the point that this is not some new strategy. this is not a choice election between president obama and the obama administration and some new position.

paul ryan is from the bush era. he's 14 years, the decisions that he made about cut -- the bush tax cuts about the war in iraq, about the medicare part "d," and even in his language about let's continue to have those things and then just cut everything, absolutely -- >> you heard him today saying we betrayed ourselves. we failed. >> yeah. >> he's admitting those were februarys. s pfoibles. >> he said we all admit that president obama inherited a tough time. who created this tough time. the facthe empyrrhics are different. >> he comes off as the new kid on the block, he's not a hack completely, but, governor he has basically gone along with the party line that he now decries. he went along with a war that he never tried to fund. he was another one of the robots that went along with it regular republicans who are not ideologues about war just went

along with the war on the party with "w." and on the prescription drugs, you talk about giveaway programs nobody ever came up with a plan for funding it. it's a great deal if you can pay for it. >> that's right. and then where do his instincts take him? and this is really telling about mitt romney with his pick. now that we have difficult fiscal issues to face where do his instincts take him? they take him to that budget proposal that he had, about how do you give older people vouchers for medicare which i think everybody understands is just a foolish proposal. scare -- and it rightfully scares people. and how do you give tax breaks -- more tax breaks to the rich? that's where his instincts go? when the pressure's on it's not how do you work through the difficult times, how do you get our kids educated in hard economic times how do you make sure working families have access to health care his instincts are how do i get another tax cut for rich people?

>> he sat on the debt commissions and there were compromises offered, he's supposed to be the big budget cutter. he let that thing die and he voted against it. and guys like coburn and durbin voted for it and he didn't. >> i'll take that as a good thing to have against him. but the thing i really have against him actually has to do with how he and governor romney have misused the declaration of independence, i'm irritated that the pursuit of happiness means -- >> money. >> money for the rich and when they say god and nature give us our right, not government. that is a lovely thing to say as a wealthy white man. but when you sit in a body like main as an african-american woman may have made us inalienable rights of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness but we could not have them until there was a civil war that allowed a federal government to impose that those nature and god-given rights would actually be respected by our government. and i think they cannot line on the declaration of independence. >> you mean the american

revolution continues as we speak? >> you think? >> that's my speech. not as good as you, but i say it all the time. the revolution continues and the battle and the dialect goes by those who like the old way even still today. thank you both for that wonderful, well benediction, this is a special live edition of "hardball," the place for politics. >> this is a critical time for america. you know that. when you have a country as prosperous as ours but 23 million people are out of work or stopped looking for work or underemployed, you know something's wrong. you know when you have a nation that has vetted public education and our kids are getting a public education that are in the bottom third of the world, you know something's wrong. you know a nation as prosperous as ours has put together $16 trillion of debt and passing on

our burden to the next generation and it's not only immoral, but wrong to put those obligations on our kids. thitcoon 8f th onr meresun, sueine keta methk ofme anarpoll tquio bewhar a. caempls or ypan spthtsmere ns,d ne ecer phooml yanco til o meppnt

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we're in a different and dangerous moment. we're running out of time. and we can't afford four more years of this. politicians from both parties have made empty promises which will soon become broken promises with painful consequences if we fail to act now. >> we're back. joining me right now are three people that have been covering the news of the romney/ryan ticket since we first learned about it, david gregory, we'll talk about who he's got on this weekend and chuck todd who gets credit for breaking the news is nebraska's political director

and white house correspondent, of course, host of "the daily rundown." and the great andrea mitchell joins us right now. i want to start with chuck. what do you know about this and "rundown" is expert about this kind of thing. when do you think he made the decision? when was he the runner-up, how did it happen and when did it happen? >> the campaign is putting out their own version of the ticktock, they are putting out that romney made his decision when he landed in the overseas trip and on august 1 phoned beth myers said it's ryan and offered it to ryan in person on august 5th. now, it's interesting they put that out there just as there was sort of this perk -- this story bubbling up that hey, remember all last week after august 1st if you will there was this churn of "the wallurnal" editorial page bill kristol, rich lowery of "national review," pushing ryan and so they certainly don't like this idea they don't want to make it look as if romney was responding to the -- to the base, if you will or to the

conservative elites that this is what he had to do. >> there's no way to check that story, is there? >> no way to check it. and my sense is it's my understanding that he and ryan really bonded a lot. there were some folks on the campaign that never thought the ryan idea was going to fly. that it was more nervous about it, seen too risky, say, two months ago, but it's my understanding romney just developed a bond with this guy and that never was shaken. if you were to ask me all the reporting we've done and then you throw in some of the gut of what you think you've learned about the final short list plus who -- plus who sort of mitt romney is, i think it came down to pawlenty and ryan. >> okay. >> i think it was sort of head and heart a little bit with -- with romney. and ryan sort of provided the best of both worlds. a little bit of head but a little bit of heart. i think romney thinks -- sees himself in paul ryan that paul ryan is the -- is the type of

budget-cutting republican that he wants the country to view him as. >> yeah let me ask you about that. david, it's so fascinating, we all look at demographics and changes in our country and ethnic changes. this is the first history in ticket without a protestant on it, it's like the supreme court now. >> right. >> what's going on here let's go politics they must feel they have the solid south locked up the evangelical south locked up they don't have to have someone from that community. >> i think part of the interesting story here is to look what's happened inside the republican party after the presidency of george bush. >> yeah. >> and what the response within the party was to that a big libertarian streak an anti-government streak the tea party was the manifestation of that. and it was really fiscal conservatism. >> yeah. >> whatever happened to it in the republican party. now, you know, paul ryan says he's embarrassed by the bush years. he was also a supporter of the policies he's critical of and embarrassed by. he straddles both eras.

but he was a critical person engineering the new governing philosophy for republicans in the house that he would like to now make national and now it is mitt romney who is embracing that by embracing ryan. >> so they can -- can they say, following this line of argument it wasn't their fault what happened in '08 and '09, the crash, it wasn't their fault there was deregulation, all that kind of stuff that led to it perhaps because they've never really been tried as fiscal conservatives, their brand of conservatism was never put out there by bush he didn't do it. he wouldn't veto a single spending bill, for example? >> right, i think they'll make that argument. i don't know if they can extend that to the idea that they're -- >> clean? >> -- you know with the regulatory environment. i think they would certainly be critical of that as well but even the -- >> i'm sorry, let me go to andrea. >> you bet. >> you haven't been on the show yet tonight. i'm waiting to hear your view of it, were uf as impressed, i'll say i was, by the juice that seemed to have been pumped into romney tonight, the way he performed at manassas that was

a romney i haven't seen. he seemed juiced by his own perhaps happiness that he made a pick that he really believed in perhaps. >> yeah i think there was a sense of relief that he felt comfortable, i went down to norfolk overnight and was there this morning and saw the excitement on that waterfront and he bounded in and, you know, there was a little verbal gaffe there that is pointed out, but quickly corrected. there seemed to be a synergy there and as well among the families, the family members, the children and grandchildren, they're quickly putting that out. putting out pictures of the kids -- >> yeah. >> -- all together. >> what about the gaffe, wasn't it a little freudian i give you the next president of the united states? wasn't he just saying if you pick me this guy will be president someday? >> i think what he does believe is that this is the rising >> yeah. >> as a ceo who picks talent and is known for picking talent he was very popular at bain both up and down in terms of the people whom he brought into the

company. he sees a real star here. and it's someone who's original who is a real thinker, you can argue and we are going to be arguing about his ideas. but he's smart. he's energetic. and there's a real youthfulness that comes through. i think that with -- >> chris, can i -- >> i think with pawlenty you would have had more of a blue-collar feel but paul ryan has that every-man appeal. >> he hasn't be beaten by pawlenty. david? >> can i make an observation, we were looking at the pictures and the generational shift is quite striking. >> yes. >> yes. >> this is a vice presidential candidate born in 1970. >> amazing. that's really something. >> compared to biden, for example. compare the guy he'll be debating. >> right. compared to biden, so here you have president obama who in biden chooses an older figure washington experience, national security experience. president bush does the same thing. with dick cheney. and yet here is mitt romney with a youthful person who is -- and he even says it today is

kind of the intellectual center of the republican party today. it is a certain passing of the baton even though mitt romney's not ready to pass it yet despite his gaffe, and i just think it's a striking image. you and i were talking about it earlier, this manassas thing, wow, that's pretty good. look at all the energy he's got and the passion and the commitment he's got. >> let me ask chuck. both sides seem to be happy with it how can it be? >> something's wrong. >> the happiness of the romney campaign that frankly, look they've conceded as we talked about earlier, they conceded that they're not going to win on making the economy a referendum that that wasn't a winning strategy, they'd come up short. i think what they're happy about, it finally gave it filled out romney as somebody he gets to dump the caricature that the obama campaign has been trying to paint over the last six weeks that this is nothing but a rich guy who's out of touch. >> yeah. >> just looking for tax cuts for himself. and instead ryan puts energy

does, you know -- the base didn't need firing up but sort of calms those folks down that were looking at the national polls going, ah, a ah and why are democrats happy? they wanted a big choice election. and, oh, by the way, they get to put medicare. the president's campaign thought they were going to have a big argument about taxes. >> i got to go. >> now they get to have a big argument about taxes and medicare. >> i got to go to andrea about the big question. does he meet the standard that rommie set out earlier, is he ready to be president? >> 14 years in the house, experienced house member but, again, there's the 3:00 a.m. phone call and with iran and syria and everything else though questions are going to be asked but he's smart and -- >> okay. >> -- and -- >> we know that hillary is the only person to pick up the phone. we know we're watching her, i'm serious, thank you very much chuck todd and andrea mitchell

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