churchill wrote in the fourth volume of his history on the second world war. any clever person can make plans for winning a war if he has no responsibility for carrying them out. thanks so much for watching. chris matthews is next. republicans aching badly. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with sex. we are talking about gender but here in politics and as in life the contact point and the battle line is sex. here's how it is and why it is important politically. men and women have sex, the only woman can get pregnant and therein lies the conflict.

potential conflict. many women watching right now have a problem with mendes eyeding on this matter. many have a particular problem with the notion men are often out there saying a woman has no right to deal with the consequences. pregnancy is only the male's concern, it seems, when men are telling women they have to accept what comes along. they have to accept it because, again, men say so. now this matter gets more heated with the u.s. congressman declaring any woman who really does want to have sex can't get pregnant. not even if some guy has sex with her. why would someone make such an argument seriously? why? because it is a way to eye the women option of abortion even if they are raped. because if they are really raped, if there was a legitimate rape they couldn't possibly get pregnant. that's where we have been all week. dee dee myers was press secretary with president clinton. i never thought i would start a show by saying this is about sex because it really is about it. earlier today on the campaign

trail -- actually on the plane paul ryan answered questions about todd akin and other similar stances on legislation in the past. let's listen to him try to deal with this. >> danforth and the rest of them, missouri delegation, current, former, drop out of the race. he's not. he is going to run his campaign and we are going to run ours. >> co-sponsored abortion related legislation with congressman akin, do you regret that now? >> it was bipartisan. hr 3 is the one we were talking about. 16 democrats. mitt romney will be the president and the president sets policy. h it is a good step in the right direction. >> i don't know about that. anyway last night in an interview with kbk which 'twas first radio station paul ryan was questioned about his role in legislation including the term forcible rape. that was a phrase that came out of his mouth, ryan.

he invented that one. term nbc's kelly o'donnell reports amendment back in 2009 and supported again the next year. let's watch him deal with this one. >> do you sponsor legislation that has the language forcible rape, what is forcible rape? >> rape is rape. rape is rape, period. end of story. >> so that forcible rape language meant nothing to you at the time? >> rape is rape. and there's no splitting hairs over rape. >> these dies are on talking points now. they have been -- gagged, they can't think what they say what they think. he, that guy talking right there, was the guy that came up with the phrase back in 2009 with an amendment to ways and means bill. it was beaten, used it again in 2010, 2011. his phrase and now he is saying it doesn't mean anything. >> rye. rape is rape. >> why is he play thing game of working the edges of abortion rights? you know what he is doing. limiting, limiting and denying that and the game he is play. >> during his years in the house he co-sponsored 36 different provisions to restrict access to

abortion including introducing a concept there were different variations of rape. some more serious where the federal government might pay for abortion through medicaid or another program. others where no, you wouldn't. who knew that there were different variations of rape. paul ryan seems to have discovered -- >> even to give the guy -- all the credit in the world for mental ability, could he have been talking about statutory which has to do -- even in that case, wonder why you would make an exception. >> exactly. 13-year-old is -- victim of incest from -- >> boyfriend. >> or exactly. even if it is somewhat consensual that's what they are trying to get away from, what they are trying to do is say only rape that's basically at gunpoint counts as rape. that women are responsible for anything else that happens to them. i mean, now -- the truth is that todd akin didn't misspeak. he actually said what he believed. that's what ignited this controversy. >> by the way -- >> republicans who believe the

same thing. >> the republican national committee voted on their platform language yesterday regarding abortion and did not make any exceptions for rape or incest and in line with what they did back in 2008. no more exceptions. reads, quote, faithful to the self-evident truths in trying to declaration of independence, we assert the sanctity of human life and affirm opportunity born child has a fundamental individual right to life which cannot be infringed and support a human life amendment to the constitution and endorse legislation to make clear the 14th amendment's protection through unborn children. mark, this is exactly in line with the personhood approach because that -- 14th amendment says no person shall be denied life, liberty and other full access to the law. and equal -- protection of the laws. why are they going into the personhood stuff in this platform that will be ratified monday? why are they getting into this in the midst of all this trouble? >> well, chris, as you know, platforms are usually a nod that's ideological components of the party on either side. traditionally, the things are generally sort of written in and

quickly ignored because leadership or the nominee often takes a different position as is the case this time. the problem with the akin situation is the incident itself but compounding the problem really big way is the timing. look at what we are talking about. we were all talking about paul ryan and his big ideas and elevating the conversation and look what we are talking about. going into the republican convention at a time when republicans wanted to send a message of tolerance and inclusion and big tent and here we are talking about issues that have a lot of women running important the exits. >> they are getting into defining the rights of the unborn child, fetus. whatever term you use. depend our point of view and philosophy. here they are going into tremendous detail about the various rights that should go to the unborn child. if you would. talking about the 14th amendment rights. all the rights to a person and then you have paul ryan saying forcible rape because he doesn't want to have any exceptions to the abortion law. then this personhood amendment. why are they pushing so hard? you are a student of politics. why would the rights say it is

not simply enough to hyde amendment says no money goes for abortions except for rape and incest. why are they trying -- is this part of the general push to shorten and limit the possibility of any kind of abortion? >> that's become the center of the republican party. one of the reasons this is such an explosive issue now is that it has been -- the republicans didn't want to talk about social -- economic issues. they forced the conversation back on to these issues. this is what the party believes. in that human life amendment part of their platform, there are no exceptions, not for the life of the mother or incest. there is no exception to that. and that's also true in the personhood amendment which paul ryan co-sponsored which would say not only would outlaw all abortion under any circumstances, it would outlaw many forms of birth control. those are not positions the republican parties wants to talk about now. and it is also not a fringe position within the party anymore. that's what is -- >> that's interesting. getting into the polling. >> very mainstream party.

center of gravity, energy of the republican party is today. >> absolute pro-life. >> absolute under all circumstances. >> this morning on the "today" show, matt lauer questioned todd akin, man at the heart of the controversies, about his use of the word legitimate as in legitimate rape. let's watch. >> legitimate does not -- should not be in the context of rape at all. that's completely wrong and what i understood that i had been offensive to people and -- that i had misspoken, then i first off apologized. there is no rape that is legitimate. it is a heinous crime. one of the most serious and i understand that the victims are harmed for a long time. i take that very seriously. but -- while i apologize for the misuse of that word, at the same time i don't apologize for the fact that i am strong in my belief of pro-life. >> he is talking to person watching the show and anybody watching that tape, he's talking

down. his use of the term of legitimate meant there are only certain legitimate events that can be categorized as rape. there are others that -- he never said there is such a thing as legitimate rape. matt lauer also asked akin if he believed women were lying about their rapes which i think is what he was saying. let's take a look at his answer to matt. >> do you believe that many women -- i don't mean just a few, but many women, lie about being raped to gain access to abortions? >> well, no, i don't believe that that's the case. and that was -- as i said, the -- comments were misspoken there, particularly on the word legitimate. i don't think that's the case. >> let me go back to mark. complete contradiction of what he said the other day when he talked about the rowe case and said there is an example of saying somebody say rape when

there was than rape. that's what he is denying what he said before. he wasn't apologizing for what he said. he's not even admitting what he said. your thoughts. >> nor did he apologize for the warped notions of his physiology and biology of women. what bothers a lot of people like me in the party is we can nominate a guy like this in the first place. how do we -- >> what about ryan? is he any different than this guy except in his charm perhaps, more charming guy? you heard him on the plane ride there. he was double talking about what he himself introduced, language of forcible rape. >> yeah. it is unclear from that answer exactly what he had in mind, whether it was related to consensual sex, i don't know. sure would like a clearer answer. as i said we are talking about paul ryan's abortion record rather than his economic and tax plans. that in itself is a problem. >> it is important to note he said 252, whatever number, members voted for hr 3 only after the forcible rape language which was dropped. >> good point.

good point. good homework. i was looking at the notes today. i was listening to what he said. last night on fox television, sarah palin called for akin to get out of the race. there is a standard. she is a wild one. talk about going rogue. she wants a third party candidate to emerge in missouri to go against mccaskill, incumbent democrat, and this guy. let's take a look at this thought process of sarah palin's. >> what he's doing right now, bless his heart, he is inviting himself back into the -- this general election that's coming up and is going to get defeated. that's unfortunate. that is why we have to think pragmatically about this and we have to think what's another option. is a third party another option? if it is, let's go. the status quo has got inform go. >> i love that backdrop. nothing like that one. that's interesting backdrop. alaska. let me ask you what is she talking about? basically --

>> i have no idea. >> he's gone. that's the news. third party is always very hard. >> right, right. they want him out. and -- he's not going. >> what's this do? you are an expert at imagery and the way things develop on television. especially what happen it is we go in -- thunderstorm down in there and -- hurricane, isaac coming into town. everything but frogs, i guess, are coming to the republican convention. but what happen it is this is the story percolating all through monday morning right into the heart of the convention? this issue of this guy. >> well, that's why it is problematic and that's why i think we -- in part why we have seen such a quick and broad consensus among republican leadership. and grassroots people from hannity to rush. they want this off the table before monday. so they can get on to issues they don't have a broader field to the general electorate. >> i think he stays in and i think he's very much theocratic. >> i hope he is staying in. >> nobody is a higher authority to him than the higher

authority. i don't think the jokeners the so-called republican establishment have the slightest influence. >> he believes -- >> beat him once and will beat him again. >> exactly. >> thank you. coming up, reality bites. modern republican party global warming, not happening, they say. evolution, liberal theory. rape, can't cause pregnancy. how republicans have become the party of science den ires. why is mitt romney running another ad that states quite falsely that president obama has ended welfare work requirements? here is a hint. he's not doing well enough among white voters as he would like to and is pulling out the old well, let's call it the old code word. number of new state polls in the presidential race, there may be movement by the way going on in the swing states. let me finish with the wonders of science from ben franklin. thomas edison. and the moon shot in why this latest rejection of human knowledge is so. well, un-american. this is "hardball," the place

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battleground states in the presidential race. let's check the "hardball" scoreboard. virginia, new poll shows president obama with a five-point lead over mitt romney. obama 50. magic number. romney, 45%. now to wisconsin. paul ryan may be helping. new poll there has him very close. romney, 48%. obama, 47%. fr obama that's the lead. 49% to 46%. to michigan. foster poll has romney up 48-44. . with the available lexus enform app suite, you can use opentable to make restaurant reservations. during the golden opportunity sales event, get great values on some of our newest models. this is the pursuit of perfection.

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i think that the -- he's a practical conservative. he's -- got a very conservative voting record. but he's not a knuckle dragger.

he understood the t.a.r.p. while none of us wanted to do it. if we were going to save our economy, save the world economy, it would happen. i wish we didn't have to do it either but he understood that. >> that's john boehner's assessment of congressman paul ryan. he said we didn't say it. he said he's not a knuckle dragger. pointing out not one of the knuckle draggers, he implies some members are, in fact, knuckle draggers. given the stance some party members have taken we can't disagree. above and beyond todd akin saying women cannot become impregnated by rape, will is more. a real pattern today. exhibit a. global warming. new york congresswoman marianne berkeover has been dubbed a member of the flat earth for her denial of global warming. let's listen to her. >> this trade bill is a tax on energy. that's all it is. a tax on energy and based on some specious global warming.

that whether or not there is real global warming has not been determined. >> good company. mitt romney agrees. let's listen. >> my view is that we don't know what's causing climate change on this planet and the idea spending trillions and trillions of dollars to try to reduce the co2 emissions is not the right course for us. >> at least he is admit there is a change. evolution, who can forget rick perry on the campaign trail explaining how they sort of teach evolution in texas. let's listen. >> you know, it is a theory that's out there. it's got some gaps in it. and n texas we teach creationism and revolution. >> ask him why he doesn't believe in science. >> i figure you are smart enough to figure out which one right. >> she says she has science on

her side. >> there is a controversy among scientists about whether evolution is a fact. >> what is the aversion of the republican side to scientific facts? what is it doing to the republican party? politics generally, mitt romney's chance of becoming president. bill nies, the science guy. bill, thanks so much for coming on. it is an unusual question. but you know, commentary at the end of the show, you can do much better. i talk about how the wonderful american tradition of young kids growing up loving ben franklin, loving thomas edison, and loving the moonshine. days of walt disney and watching our attempts to catch the russians and beating them and loving it. what we do every time we win a handful of nobel prizes of chemist chemistry, we love rooting for that in this country. what going against that in the

republican party? without being too partisan, what caused the rejectionism of thought? >> it is a mystery. what you believed as a kid sticks with you your whole life. i would say in general, these people got misperceptions when they were young and it is still with them. that wouldn't matter except we have climate clang. we have 7 billion people living on what's proven to be a small planet. so being anti-science at this point in history is very serious for all human kind and very serious for us as citizens of the u.s. who have this expectation that we will be leaders in science and technology. i encourage -- >> go ahead. >> i encourage you guys, i'm just asking you and the media, to ask these people who are running for president and vice president and ask them directly about climate change and ask them directly about science. ask them directly about evolution. rather than just getting the

sound bite which is are very compelling and creepy, unsettling, just ask them directly why don't you believe in -- what is it about it that you find unacceptable. >> mr. nye, let me tell law we did. the last presidential campaign back in 2008, we asked mr. romney and the others about this whole question of evolution. and watch this, what happened when -- my co-anchor that night at the reagan library, jim began asking them about who believes in evolution and who doesn't believe in evolution. here is john mccain sort of starting it off on the right foot and then the other guys going the other way. let's watch. >> senator mccain, this comes from a politico.com reader. they want a yes or no. do you believe in evolution? >> yes. >> i'm curious is there anybody on the stage that does not agree -- believe in evolution?

>> may i just add to that? >> sure. >> i believe in evolution but i also believe when i hike the grand canyon and see sun set the hand of god is there also. >> that sounds right to me. look, brownback, huckabee and tancredo put their hands up. a couple of things going on here. obviously business types think that if they accept the fact mankind influence on climate clang they are going to have to change some of the regulatory laws and co2 emissions, deal with that and will hurt the freedom in the marketplace. right? the other thing about the religious front. you and i were trained in the bible ask learned it was all part of the moral lesson taught as children. so powerful in our lives. the scientific nature, we always said yes, but that was important. important stories in the bible but there's also science and archeological fact out there we have to deal with and the history of the dinosaurs and that all occurred as well. these new people politically are saying that no, no, no, all the answers are in the bible. we -- politicians have to say so. we have to deny the history of

mankind and the history of this plan planet. it is frighten. >> i'm not making a value judgment when i say this. okay. but the republican party has become a faith-based party. starting with ronald reagan, there was a marriage between the biblebelt of the south, fundamental -- >> literal interpretation. >> and catholics elsewhere in the country who are becoming more conservative socially. they joined hands and there are many good things that came from that especially if you believe in the republican party and its success. but these people start from a fundamentally different point of view on questions such as abortion. on questions such as evolution. questions such as climate change. and they see as john mccain belatedly said the hand of god in everything that happens and they look to god first. legitimate concerns. about genetic manipulation of the human species.

who -- should we leave that to god or do we as human beings take that on 1234 there is a serious point underneath this. there is. nobody in the modern republican party dares question the orthodoxy of a faith-based republican party at this point. that's what it is. it is a bible-based republican party. >> it also -- it is also market based. let me go back to mr. nyi hee h. when you get todd akin saying you can't get impregnated if you are raped, it seems to me what he is wrestling is a fundamentalist notion if abortion is wrong, then how could god allow situations where it might be necessary or appropriate by -- because of rape. therefore, simply dictate the fact that you can't get impregnated -- can't get pregnant if you are raped. just create a new one. explain why -- >> well, i think it is just -- what you are saying, wishful thinking.

i talk about this all the time. if you grow up -- if you had grown up in oklahoma with these wide-open spaces and your neighbor -- nearest neighbor is very far away, having human species change the climate of the planet is literally unimaginable. and so you -- you develop this world view that -- what you -- what you expect to be true will be true. and i just want to add this point for both of you guys while you are here. after this convention, just be aware of whether you are a conservative voter or a progressive voter, just beware mr. romney has long tradition of changing, changing the way he talks about these things. i will not be surprised if he goes much more to the center very quickly. >> don't count on it. let me give you some advice. do i this for a living, mr. science guy. >> bring it on. >> that was the old game. i think the old game was go to

the center. this guy -- heat up the pressure cooker. >> i think what's -- dee dee myers said in the first segment paul ryan is representative after new generation born into that new republican party that i described. >> they are the ones having the convention this week. he is 42 years old and steeped in this. he starts every consideration of public policy, not from the standpoint of science, but from the standpoint of faith. that's who paul ryan is. ask they are not going to shut him up -- >> he will make barry goldwater look like nelson rockefeller by the end of the convention. thank you, mr. nye. i share your worry about this and respect you soap. are you telling us how to do this thing? thank you, howard. thank you. this guy is telling us how to do what we do all the time. you explain -- >> no. >> up next, curb your enthusiasm's larry david is looking out to drum up enthusiasm among younger voters this election.

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i just read a hurricane can threaten next week's republican convention in tampa. which explains its name hurricane todd akin. >> funny but true. not only could this be a fiasco but weather forecasts show a hurricane named isaac could hit florida at the beginning of next week. todd akin is still attempting to ramp up support for his cincinnati campaign despite pressure from all sides to get out of the race. yesterday akin's website feature ad petition for people who still want to back him up. notice the gaffe, though. mccass i will, you are running with todd akin.

y-o-u-r. check out take two. second attempt. nonexistent spelling of the word your-re with an extra "r." the gaffe that prompted the petition, though, obviously far from an easy fix. next "curb your enthusiasm's" larry david has a new role. trying to get young people to hit the polls on election day. >> young people, i would say to you very important to vote. that not to vote -- why are you living here? you could be living anywhere. you can live in iran. or north korea. how would you like that? then, yeah, yeah, you can sit on your coach. here you don't allowed to vote so you may as well do it. what do you think of that? young person. you must vote.

>> the message couldn't be more clear. get off your you know what and register to vote. president obama had a similar get out the vote message for a crowd in viewing vague just today. >> part of the jobs billy sent to the new congress last september would have helped states like nevada, prefent further layoffs. would allow them to rehire teachers who lost their jobs. but republican in congress -- no, no, no, no. don't boo. vote. >> i like that. don't boo, vote. in that case the message even more than mr. david's was quite partisan. anyway, up next, why's mitt romney running yet another deceptive, dishonest ad that president obama wants to end the work requirements for welfare? maybe it is because he's not doing well enough among white voters and needs to blow the old dog whistle, you know, with the code it. watching "hardball," the place for politics.

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i'm sue herera with the cnbc market wrap. stocks ending mixed with the dow jones skidding 30 points. s&p 500 up just a fraction. and the nasdaq added 6 1/2 points. latest minutes from the federal reserve show many members are red write for another round of fiscal stimulus p the economy doesn't improve fairly soon. mean while, hewlett-packard and dell slower sales ahead of the sales of windows 8. back to chris and "hardball."

welcome back to "hardball." it may not be true but mitt romney has no plans to give up his attack on president obama. he's dismantling the welfare work requirements and simply handing checks to people. today's campaign released a statement commemorating the 16th anniversary of president clinton signing welfare reform and accused president obama of gutting work requirements early this week. and romney campaign released their latest ad on welfare. let's watch it. >> since 1996, welfare recipients were required to work p this bipartisan reform successfully reduced welfare roles. on july 12, president obama quietly ended the work requirement. gutting welfare reform. one of the most respected newspapers in america called it nuts. saying that if you want to get more people to work, you don't loosen the requirements. you tighten them. mitt romney's plan for a stronger middle class will put work back in welfare. >> the president didn't end work requirements when he was asked about the romney attacks.

here is what president obama did say. >> you have governor romney creating as a centerpiece of his campaign this notion that we are taking the work requirement out of welfare. which every single person here who has looked at it says it is patently false. they can run the campaign they want. but the truth of the matter is that -- you can't just make stuff up. and that's one thing you learn as president of the united states. you get called into account. >> so why's romney the candidate for president on the republican side focused on welfare? what's the message he is trying to send the voters? james peterson, director of african a studies at lehigh university. contribu statement stein's political head tore for the huffington post and contributor to msnbc. james, what do you make of this? this is something that they are running relentlessly and throwing in bill clinton here. and they are making him the good guy. making obama the bad guy.

i see race here. i don't see it all the time. i see it. i see welfare queens and i see food stamp talk. the same old -- not even code. it is direct. my thought. yours? >> it is pretty direct. no, you are right here. i'm glad that we can move beyond the that. remember, this ad has been debunked across the board. joe scarborough who leans to the right quite a bit came out against these ads as being inaccurate. you have to ask the question why they are still being used. bottom line is there are racial codes that are inhairnent the discourse about public assistance and welfare. we can talk about the history of welfare queens and ways in which welfare has been racially historically, we have to prove the romney campaign has a sinister strategy to tap into the old codes of welfare and being used and exploited and fraudulently used by people of color. >> you know, sam, i remember during the primary campaign got

heated. i enjoyed it. it got so heated a while there. people like newt gingrich saying obama was the food stamp president. that was more direct than this. i'm sorry. your thoughts on this? is this simply trying to get the certain percentage of the white noncollege vote up to the level they needed at and even if the cost of being ridiculed by the objective umpires of the business who know these ads aren't right? >> well, you know, the -- race for the african-american voter p isn't exactly a nail biter. nbc/"wall street journal" poll. if that's the premise you are operating off of you have to -- you know, in due course get the other votes out. i think, yes, this -- >> got to get ron to explain how he got a zero in the latest poll. just kidding. there are obviously some african-americans, i know them, who are voting for romney. i don't buy that poll. >> it is not statistically significant, chris. >> you do end up having to -- running a campaign you end up having to run up the margins where it counts. my colleague arthur delaney, who

looked into this extensively, noted there is a study a brown professor did, the ads are resonating among working class white voters. they resonate with a certain audience and the audience is the audience mitt romney needs to draw up an election and testing the president's proposition you can't make things up. he is making things up and seeing if it works. >> as the first read blog pointed out today, the welfare line of attack has a lot to do with romney's need to expand his margin was white voters out there. our latest nbc poll shows romney up by 13 points in the -- among white voters generally but margin is one point better than john mccain did in 2008. mccain lost decisively. the argument out there seems to be, james, as nasty as these ads are, inaccurate as they could be, they -- achieve a goal which is to get the white voter especially noncollege white voter really ticked off.

really ticked off at obama who he may personally like, even though he's black and they are white, he may have gotten past that and -- i like the guy personally. he is a good family man but hearing this ad, out there screwing up the system and letting welfare cheats make it's easier for themselves so i have to vote against this guy. >> well, listen, while sam is right, he is referencing michael's study which is i know the republicans don't always like science so much. but it is a statistically important study to think about what this sort of larger problem here is. bottom line is these things will appeal to people -- ads will appeal to people who are more conservative racially and who are sometimes working class white males. we have to remember that if this work for a lot of of different issues that don't have the same kind of history is welfare. things like health care, things like cap and trade, still also being racialized in the political environment we are in. we need to really step back and think about this in a really -- i thai more complicated way and realize what the romney campaign is doing, sacrificing the sort of public good of our politics

and sort of for the short-term advantage of getting these -- >> last word. last word. >> there's been a concerted effort by the romney campaign to sort of portray obama as, you know, fouling up the clinton legacy. contrast the two democrats against each other. whereas clinton new democrat, obama sort of this old liberal status democrat. this goes to that as well. they want to portray obama as something different than bill clinton was and so the -- harking back to the welfare reform debates. >> bill clinton signed that welfare reform bill because he politically thought he had to. not because he -- >> bill clinton also called these attacks by romney dead wrong. >> he will be part of this campaign, too. i think clinton will come out for obama. what do you think? thank you are james peterson. thank you, sam. no. i'm being sarcastic. he will campaign like mad. if hillary clinton is going to be president, much better chance of being president if barack obama wins.

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the democratic party released the names of more speakers for their convention the week after next down in charlotte, north carolina. there is a theme. caroline kennedy. sand sandra fluke. duckworth. led better.

and actress eva longoria will also speak at the convention. and the democrats are looking to capitalize on the big gender gap as we can see. latest nbc news "wall street journal" poll shows president obama leading mitt romney by 28 points on the quest of who would do more on issues of special importance to women. we will be right back. humans -- even when we cross our t's and dot our i's, we still run into problems. namely, other humans. which is why, at liberty mutual insurance, auto policies come with new car replacement and accident forgiveness if you qualify.

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for more of the inside story, visit shinglesinfo.com so i test... a lot. do you test with this? freestyle lite test strips? i don't see... beep! wow! that didn't take much blood. yeah, and the unique zipwik tab targets the blood and pulls it in. so easy. yep. freestyle lite needs just a third the blood of onetouch ultra. really? so testing is one less thing i have to worry about today. great. call or click today and get strips and a meter free. test easy. we are back. white working class voters used to be staunch democrats. back when the government, back when the government helped build the middle class in this country more than a half century ago. these days they largely fall into the republican camp often voting against their own

economic interests and in favor of the weltd wealthy. a frustration for democrats that feel blue collar whites ought to be in their camp p often step on their own message with famously with talk of those very people clinging to the guns and religion. joan walsh is author of "what's the matter with white long for never was. she's an msnbc political analyst. thank you, and congratulations, jo joan. a cause very much in my own start. i want to start with this to help sell your book. a picture in my mind. it was the bobby kennedy funeral train coming down in '68 through new jersey, and a lot of african-american people along that route. emotionally driven to just to the end of the line for losing bobby. i saw the white people in that same railroad track along those lines. one father and son apparently, dirty face that had working jobs cleaning up around the yard or

something. regular, regular people saluting. the father made the kid salute and he's saluting. the emotional connection the democratic party had with white working people seems to be in big disrepair to put it lightly. >> yeah. i write about that period in my book. bobby kennedy was one of the last democrats who had a prayer of uniting african-americans and the white working class and latinos. i mean, president obama is trying, and i think he can make some inroads. but, you know, when i talk in my book about the golden age that never was, there was a golden age for some of us. you lived through it and i lived through it where we did build that middle class with government programs. we made a decision that we were going to flatten income and equality after the tragedies of the great depression and world war ii. we really made decisions that built this vast middle class that we're all so proud of. it was the g.i. bill, the new deal, it was mortgage insurance so that people could buy homes. we built public universities and

built the roads that let us drive out to our suburbs with our white pickett fences. i feel like a lot of white working class people don't exactly know or realize the role today. >> i love your theory and it's a fabt. my dad had the g.i. bill. he got us all through school. to help us get through school, the money he couldn't help us with, we had nda loans. i was able to borrow when i went to holly cross 1,000 bucks every year at 3%, and you could pay for it out of grad school, peace corps, military, you can pay for it at 3%. does the middle class enjoy those advantages from the government that allowed me to get a good education and obviously remember it. is that how it is today? can the average person like us growing up today get those advantages from the government that they can say, yeah, i need the government? >> no. first of all, we didn't keep pace with the growth of the population, and so we didn't

build the pub universities and didn't extend the loans and pell grants and all that other stuff. tuition has risen as naum cali, so even with the pell grant and loan, you go deeper into debt. white people and other people, middle class people have a lot to be concerned about, have a lot to complain about. i think that the president, you know, we are talking about this all the time now. the president has gotten that message that we are all in this together. we can do it and government has helped before, and government will help you again. and i like his messaging, and i think he can make inroads with the white working class. i don't think he's going to win a majority. that's impossible. but he did better with the white working class and with white voters generally than white democrats al gore and john kerry. it's not only about race, and i guess that's my final message. i do feel that sometimes we can sound very kond secon sending w talk about -- >> never have i heard you say

kond sending word of the people we came from. the president made that comment about clinging to guns and religion, he was talking on knob hill talking to people na think like that. he was talking to them in their language, and he got caught on tape talking like them, right? >> but the rest of his message -- that was a terrible thing to say, chris, but the rest of his message was that these people have been abandoned, and they were also abandoned by the democratic party because we went too far to business and wall street. there's lots of things he can do. >> talking to the contributors can ruin your language. thank you. the book. i love the green cover by the way. there it is for joan walsh appropriately covered in green. "what's the matter with white people?" thank you, joan walsh. when we return let me finish why the republican rejection of science is downright, i'll say it, un-american. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.

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let me finish with this. from the beginning of the republic, we have been pioneers and gone on "star trek" where no man has gone before. it's not just geographic exploration, science and understanding the science of the universe is an american frontier since the days when ben franklin put his kite in the air during a storm and excited us with the nature of electricity. thomas edison and his streak of genius that seemed to invent just about everything.

how proud we are today each year when the american physicists and scientists and chemists bring home bundles of nobel prizes. the engineers and wonderful abilities to exploit, yes, we've got to the moon and yes we did. i used a cell phone and i'm in wonder at the radio wave that can come through concrete walls. i'm in wonder with the information on a little device to put in my pokts. aren't the people who did all wonderful? wasn't ronald reagan right? the world war ii generation were born without all this wonder and they developed it. i don't know where this new ignorance came from. this crazy rejection of all man kind has learned. the refusal for scientific evidence that the earth is warmer even as the snow and ice melt. i don't know what came of us who believed in moral truths of the bible but understood the discovery the bones and other