time. we should use the discovery of this tape to discover in us what are we going to do at this point in history? none of us will be dr. king, but all of us will be recorded in history. we will recorded for what we do or what we don't do. history has taken attendance. will you marked present or marked missing in action? thanks for watching. i'm al sharpton. "hardball" starts right now. republicans aching badly. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews down in washington. let me start tonight with sex. we're really talking about gender, but here in politics as in life, the contact point and the battle line is sex. here's how it is and why it's

important politically. men and women have sex, only the woman can get pregnant, and therein lies the conflict. okay, the potential conflict. many women watching right now have a problem with men deciding on this matter. many have a problem with the notion that men are often out there saying a woman has no right to deal with the consequences. pregnancy is only the male's concern it seems when men are telling women they have to accept what comes along. they have to accept it, because, again, men say so. now this matter gets more heated with a u.s. congressman declaring that any woman who really doesn't want to have sex can't get pregnant, not even p if some guy has sex with her. why would someone make such an argument seriously? why? it's a way to deny the women the option of an abortion even if they're raped, because if they're really raped, if there was a legitimate rape, they couldn't possibly get pregnant according to this congressman. we'll start with that one, because that's why we've been all week. dee dee myers and mark mckin nan is a former bush campaign

adviser. dee dee i never thought i'd start a show this is really about sex. early today on the campaign trail -- on his plane paul ryan answered questions about todd akin and other similar stances on legislation in the past. lynn to him try to deal with this. >> i agree with the rest of the people from the missouri delegation that he should have dropped out of the race, but he's not. he's going to run his campaign and we're running ours. >> you co-spon certificated abortion related legislation with akin. >> that bill passed by 251 votes and was bipartisan. i think we had 251 votes, 16 democrats. i'm proud of my pro-life record. mitt romney is the president, and the president sets policy. his policy is exceptions for rape, incest and life the mother. i'm comfortable with it because it's a good step in the right direction. >> i don't know about that guy. last night at an interview with

kdk, he was questioned about his role in education including the term forcible rape. that came out of his mouth. ryan invented that one. a term o'donnell reports he proposed for an amendment in 2009. let's watch him deal with this one. >> you sponsored legislation that has the language forcible rape? >> rape is rape, period. end the story. >> so that forcible rape language meant nothing to you at the time? >> rape is rape, and there's no splitting hairs over rape. >> these guys, dee dee, are on talking points now. they've been gagged. they can't think -- say what they think. that guy talking right there was the guy that came up with the phrase back in 2009 with an amendment to a ways and means bill. it was beaten. he used it again in 2010, 2011. his phrase, and now he says it doesn't mean anything. >> rape is rape. >> why is he playing this game? he's limiting, limiting,

limiting, and now he denies that's the game he's playing. >> right. during the years in the house he co-sponsored 30 different restrictions to access to abortions including introducing a concept there were different variations of rape, some were more serious where the government might pay for abortions others where you wouldn't. who knew there were different variations of rape. rape is rape. paul ryan seems to have discovered that today. >> even to give the guy all the credit in the world for mental ability, is he talking about statutory. even in that case, you wonder why you make an exception? >> if a 13-year-old is the victim of incest -- >> or just a boyfriend. >> or even if it's somewhat con sense aal, that's what they're trying to get away from. any kind of consensual. they say only rape that's at gunpoint counts as rape, and that women are responsible for anything else that happens to them. now the truth is that todd akin didn't misspeak. he actually said what he

believed, and that's what ignited this controversy. >> by the way -- >> the republicans believe the same thing. >> i'm going to get to the expert on this. the republican national committee voted on their platform language yesterday regarding abortion. it didn't make exceptions for rape and incest. no more exceptions. it reads, quote, faithful to the self-evident truths in the declaration of independence, we assert the sanctity of human life and afirm the unborn child has a fundamental right to life that can't be infringed. the 14th amendment's protections apply to unborn children. the 14th amtd says no person is denied life, liberty, and full access to the law and equal protection of the laws. why are they going into the personhood stuff in this platform that's ratified on monday? why are they getting into this in the midst of all this trouble? >> chris, as you know, the platforms are a nod to a

ideological component of the party on either side. traditionally these things are generallily sort of written in and quickly ignored because the leadership or the nominee takes a different position as is the case this time. the problem with the akin situation is the incident itself, but compounding the problem in a big way is the timing. look what we're talking about. we were all talking about paul ryan and his big ideas and look what we're talking about right now. going into the republican convention at a time when republicans wanted to send a message of tolerance, inclusion, big tent. here we are talking about issues that have a lot of women running for the exits. >> they're really getting into defining the rights of the unborn child. the fetus, if you will, whatever term you use. they're all appropriate, i suppose, depending on your point of view and philosophy. here they are going into tremendous detail about the various rights that should go to the unborn child, if you will, and they're talking about the 14th amendment right, all the rights to the person. you have paul ryan saying forcible rape because he doesn't

want exceptions it to the abortion law and the personhood amendment. why would the right say it's not enough the hyde amendment says no money goes for abortions except for rape and incest, and why are they trying to -- is this part of the general push to shorten and limit the possibility of any kind of abortion in this country? >> that's become the ideological center of the republican party. one of the reasons this is such an explosive issue now is the republicans didn't want to talk about social issues but not economic issues. this is what the party believes. in that human life amendment part of their platform, there are no exceptions, not for the life of the mother, not for rape or incest. there's no exception to that. that's also true in the personhood amendment, which paul ryan co-sponsored, which would say -- not only outlawed all abortion, it will outlaw many forms of birth control and in vitro fertilization. those are not positions the republican party want to talk

about. it's not a fringe position within the party anymore, chris. >> that's interesting. >> it's become a mainstream party. it's a center of gravity. it's where the energy of the republican party is today. >> absolute pro-life. >> under all circumstances. >> this morning on "today" matt lauer questioned todd akin about his use of the world "legitimate" as in legitimate rape. let's wauchlt. >> legitimate should not be in the context of rape at all. that's completely wrong. when i understood i was offensive, i first off apologized. there is no rape that's legitimate. it's a heinous crime, one of the most serious. i understand the victims are harmed for a long time, and i take that very seriously. while i apologize for the misuse of that word, at the same time i don't apologize for the fact that i am strong in my belief of

pro-life. >> he is really talking down to the person watching this show and anybody watching that tape. >> he's talking down. there are others -- he never said it's legitimate rape. this is something he never meant to say as a apology which is bogus. matt asked akin if he believed women were lying about their rapes, which is what i think they were saying. look at his answer to matt. >> do you believe that many women, and i don't mean a few many women lie about being raped to gain access to abortions? >> well, no, i don't believe that that's the case, and that was -- as i said, the comments were misspoken there, particularly on the word "legitimate." i don't think that's the case. >> let me get back to mark. that's a complete contradiction

to what he said the other day when he talked about the row case. he said there's an example of somebody saying rape when there wasn't rape. that's what he's denying he said before. he wasn't apologizing for what he said. he's not even admitting what he said. your thoughts. >> nor did he apologize for the warped notions of his physiological and biology of women. what bothers me is we could nominate a guy like this in the first place. >> what about ryan? what about ryan? is he any different than this guy except in his charm, perhaps, he's a more charming guy? you heard him on the plane right there. he was double-talking about what he himself had introduced. the language of forcible rape. >> yeah, it's unclear from that answer exactly what he had in mind, whether it was related to consensual sex, i don't know. i'd sure like a clearer answer. it's problematic. we're talking about paul ryan's abortion record rather than his economic and tax plan. that's a problem. >> he said 252 members voted for

hr 3. after the forcible rape language was dropped. >> good point. good homework. he's trying to have it both ways. >> good homework. last night on fox television, sarah palin called for akin out of the race. there's a standard. and floated the idea she's a wild one. talk about going rouge. she wants a third party candidate to emerge in missouri to go against claire mchaskell, the incumbent democrat and this guy. let's look at this thought process of sarah palin's. >> what he's doing right now, greta, bless his heart, he's inviting himself back into this general election that's coming up, and he's going to get defeated and that's unfortunate. that is why we have to think pragmatically about this and we have to think, what's another option? is a third party another option? if it is, let's go. the status quo has got to go. >> i love that backtracking. nothing like that.

that's really an interesting backdrop of alaska. what's she talking about? she's basically -- >> i have no idea. >> he's gone. that's the news. to say to have a third party. that's always very hard. >> right, right. so they want him out. he's not going. they're stuck. >> what this do, mark? you're an expert how things develop on television. what happens if we have a thunderstorm down there, maybe a hurricane isaac coming into town. everything but frogs i guess are coming to the republican convention. what happens if this is the story percolating all through monday morning into the heart of the convention, this issue of this guy? >> that's why it's problematic, chris, and that's why we've such a quick and broad consensus among republican leadership and grassroots people from han knha to rush thechlt it off the table before monday so they can get on to issues. >> i think he stays in. i think he's very much --

>> i hope he stays in as a democrat. >> there's no higher authority to him than the higher authority. i don't think these jokers and the so-called republican establishment have the slightest influence over this guy. >> he's won in spite of that. >> he beat them once, and he'll beat them again. joy to the world. >> we'll see. >> thank you, dee dee myers and mark mckin nen. reality bites. the modern republican party, global warming is not happening they say. evolution is a liberal theory, rape can't cause pregnancy. how they're the party of science deniers. why is mitt romney running another ad that states quite falsely that president obama has ended welfare work requirements? here's a hint. he's not doing well enough among white voters as he'd like to so he's pulling out the old code word. a number of new state polls in the presidential race. there maybe some movement in swing states. let me finish with the wonders of science from ben franklin to thomas edson and the moon shot and why this latest rejection of

human knowledge is so, well, un-american. this is "hardball," the place for politics. ♪ lord, you got no reason ♪ you got no right ♪ ♪ i find myself at the wrong place ♪ [ male announcer ] the ram 1500 express. ♪ it says a lot about you. ♪ in a deep, hemi-rumble sort of way. guts. glory. ram. why not take a day to explore your own backyard? in a deep, hemi-rumble sort of way. with two times the points on travel, you may find yourself asking why not, a lot. chase sapphire preferred. there's more to enjoy.

let's check the "hardball" scorecard. in virginia where a new poll shows president obama with a five-point lead over romney. it's bahaobama at 50. now to wisconsin, paul ryan's new home state. it's very close. romney 48% and obama 47%. also from wisconsin the new marquette university law school poll is close, but obama is in the lead, 49% to 46%. finally to michigan they have romney up 48% to 44%. we'll be right back.

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he's a practical

conservative. he's got a very conservative voting record, but he's not a knuckle dragger. he understood that t.a.r.p., while none of us wanted to do it, if we were going to save our economy and save the world economy, it had to happen. he understood that. >> welcome back. that's house speaker john boehner's assessment of paul ryan. he said he's not a knuckle dragger. by pointing out he's not one of the knuckle draggers in his congress, he implies some are knuckle draggers. giving the anti-science stance some republican party members have taken, we can't disagree. above and beyond todd aakin saying women can't be impregnant natured by rape, there's more. exhibit a, global warming. new york congresswoman mare yea an beshgle denies global warming. listen to her. >> this cap and trade bill is a tax on energy.

that's all it is. it's a tax on energy, and it's based on some global warming. whether there's real global warming has not been determined. >> has not been determined. burckle is in good company by the way. mitt romney agrees. let's listen. >> my view is that we don't know what's causing climate change on this planet, and the idea of spending trillions of dollars to try and reduce co2 emissions is not the right course for us. >> at least he admits there's climate change. that's progress in that crowd. exhibit b, evolution. who could forget rick perry on the campaign trail explaining how they sort of teach evolution down in texas. >> you know, it's a theory that is out there. it's got some gaps in, but in texas we teach both creationism and evolution, in our public schools. because i figure you're smart enough to figure out which one is right. >> unbelievable.

michele bachmann isn't sure about evolution either and she says she has science on her side. >> there is a controversy among scientists about whether evolution is a fact. >> what is the aversion on the republican side to science? what's it doing to the republican party, to politics and mitt romney's chance of becoming president. bill nye is the science guy and howard fineman another kind of science guy, editorial director of the huffington post and an msnbc analyst. bill, thanks so much for coming on. it's an unusual question, but, you know i have a little commentary at the end of the show. i talk about how the wonderful american tradition of young kids growing up loving ben franklin and thomas edison, loving the moon shot, the days of walt disney and watching our attempts to cash the russians and beating them finally and love it. every time we win a handful of nobel prizes for chemistry or

physics we love to root for na in this country. what's going against that in the republican party? what's caused this rejectionism of thought? >> it's a mystery. it's generally agreed, but what you believe as a kid sticks with you your whole life. i would say in general these people got misperceptions when they were young, and it's still with them. that wouldn't matter except we have climate change. we have 7 billion people living in what's proven to be a pretty small planet, so being anti-science at this point in history is very serious for all humankind, and, of course, it's very serious for us as citizens of the u.s. who have this expectation that we will be leaders in science and technology. what i really encourage you guys -- i'm just asking you in the media to ask these people running for president and vice president, ask them directly about climate change. ask them directly about science.

ask them directly about evolution, rather than just getting the sound bites, which are very compelling and creepy, unsettling, just ask them directly why don't you believe in climate change? what is it about it that you find unacceptable, because the science is overwhelming? >> let me tell you we did in the last presidential campaign back in 2008. we asked mr. romney and the others about this whole question of evolution. watch this. what happened. it was jim vander high was my co-aanchor that night out of the reagan library. he asked who believes in evolution and who doesn't. here's john mccain starting it off on the right foot, and then these other guys going the other way. let's watch. >> governor mccain, this is from a politico.com readers and was among the top vote getters. they want a yes or no. do you believe in evolution?

>> yes. >> is there anybody on the stage that does not agree or believe in evolution? >> may i just add to that? >> sure. >> i believe in evolution, but i also believe when i hike the grand canyon and see it at sunset that the hand of god is there also. >> that sounds right to me. brown back, huck key and tancredo don't believe in evolution. there's acouple things going on here. obviously business types think if they accept the fact there's a man kind influence on climate changes and they have to change laws and deal with that. it will hurt their freedom in the marketplace, right? there's the other thing about the religious front, and you and i were trained in the bible. we learned it was part of the moral lesson as children so powerful in our lives, but the scntific nature. we always said, yes, but there's important stories in the bible, but there's also science and archaeological fact to deal with and the history of the dinosaurs. that all occurred as well. these new people politically are saying no, no, no.

all the answers are in the bible. we politicians have to say so. we have to deny the history of man xind and the history of this planet. it's frightening. >> i'm not making a value judgment when i say this, okay? the republican party has become a faith-based party. starting with ronald reagan, there was a marriage between the bible belt of the south, the fundamentalist bible belt of the south, literal interpretation and catholics elsewhere in the country who are becoming more conservative socially. they joined hands, and there are many good things that came from that, especially if you believe in the republican party and its success. but these people start from a fundamentally different point of view on questions such as abortions, on questions such as evolution and climate change. they see as john mccain belat belatedly said the hand of god in everything that happens, and they look to god first.

they're legitimate concerns, for example, about genetic manipulation of the human species. should we leave that to god, or do we as human beings take that on? there's a serious point underneath this. there is. nobody in the modern republican party dares question the orthodoxy of a faith-based republican party at this point. that's what it is. it's a bible-based republican party. >> it's also market-based. let me get back to mr. nye here. first of all, it seems like when you get a guy like this guy todd akin saying you can't get impregnated if you rain. if abortion is wrong how can there be situations where it's necessary or appropriate because of rain? >> therefore is dick -- dictates the fact you can't get pregnant if you're raped. just create a new scientific fact. explain why a guy would say

something like that. >> it's wishful thinking. if you had grown up in oklahoma with these wide-open spaces and your nearest neighbor is very far away, having human species change the climate of the planet is literally unimaginable. so you develop this world view that what you expect to be true will be true. i just want to add this point for both of you guys while you're here. after this convention just beware whether you're conservative or a progressive vo voter, be wear that mr. romney has a long tradition of changing the way he talks about these things. i will not be surprised if he goes much more to the center very quickly. >> let me give you some advice. i did this for a living, mr. science guy. >> bring it on.

>> you ain't going to try this. that was the old game. and the old game was going to the senate. he wanted to hide in his base and heat up the pressure cooker. >> dee dee myers said it in the new segment. he represents a new generation born into the new republican party i described before. he's the first gen x-er on a presidential ticket. he's 43 years old and steeped in it. he starts every consideration of public policy not from the standpoint of science but of faith. that's who paul ryan is, and they won't shut him up in the white house. >> he makes barry goldwater look like nelson rockefeller by the end of the convention. thank you, mr. nye. i respect you so much. >> are you telling us how to do this thing? >> yes. >> thank you, howard. this guy is telling us how to do what we do all the time. you explain the general theory of relativity.

larry david is looking to drum up enthusiasm among younger voters in this direction. that's up next in the science show. this is "hardball," the place for politics. down here, folks measure commitment by what's getting done. the twenty billion dollars bp committed has helped fund economic and environmental recovery. long-term, bp's made a five hundred million dollar commitment to support scientists studying the environment. and the gulf is open for business - the beaches are beautiful, the seafood is delicious. last year, many areas even reported record tourism seasons.

the progress continues... but that doesn't mean our job is done. we're still committed to seeing this through. nah. [ dennis' voice ] i bet he's got an allstate agent. they can save you up to 30% more by bundling your policies. well, his dog's stupid. [ dennis' voice ] poodles are one of the world's smartest breeds. are you in good hands? with less chronic osteoarthritis pain. imagine living your life with less chronic low back pain. imagine you, with less pain.

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cymbalta can help. go to cymbalta.com to learn about a free trial offer. hurricane todd akin. >> funny but true, but not is there concern that the todd aakin fiasco will be a dark cloud, but weather forecasts show a hurricane next week. yesterday akin's website featured a petition for people that still want to back him up. notice the gaffe though, tell mccasteel you're running with

todd akin, your. a blunder, no big deal. check out take two. the second attempt. a non-existent spelling of a world. finally by the third attempt the spelling issues were squared away. the gaffe that prompted the petition far from an easy fix. next, curb your enthusiasm's larry david has a new role. he's trying to get young people to hit the polls on election day. >> young people, i would say to you, it's very important to vote. that not to vote, why are you even living here? you could be living anywhere. you could be living in iran or north korea. how would you like that? then, yeah, you could sit on your couch, but here you're allowed to vote so you might as well do it. what do you think of that, young person? you must vote.

>> anyway, the message couldn't be more clearer, get off your you know what and register to vote. president obama had a similar message for a crowd in las vegas just today. >> part of the jobs bill that i sent to the new congress last september would have helped states like nevada prevent further layoffs, and allow them to rehire teachers who lost their jobs. but republicans in congress let -- no, no, no. don't boo. vote. >> like that. don't boo. vote. although in that case the message even more than mr. david's was quite partisan. anyway, up next, why is mitt romney running yet another deceptive, dishonest ad that president obama wants to end the work requirements for welfare? maybe it's because he's not doing well enough among white voters and needs to blow the old

dog whistle with the code on it. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. so now i can be in the scene. advair is clinically proven to help significantly improve lung function. unlike most copd medications, advair contains both an anti-inflammatory and a long-acting bronchodilator working together to help improve your lung function all day. advair won't replace fast-acting inhalers for sudden symptoms and should not be used more than twice a day. people with copd taking advair may have a higher chance of pneumonia. advair may increase your risk of osteoporosis and some eye problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking advair. if you're still having difficulty breathing, ask your doctor if including advair could help improve your lung function. get your first full prescription free and save on refills at advaircopd.com.

i'm alex witt. tropical storm isaac will become a hurricane and could hit south florida by monday. the still fragile haiti is bracing for a direct hit. lightning sparked wildfires and destroyed homes and buildings. on wall street the dow jones skidded 30 points and the nasdaq gained 6 1/2. now, back to "hardball."

welcome back. it may not be true, but mitt romney has no plans to give up his attack on president obama that he's dismantling welfare work requirements and handing checks to people. today his campaign released a statement commemorating the 16th anniversary of president clinton of signing work reform and he accused obama of gutting work requirements. earlier this week they leased the latest ad. >> since 1996 welfare recipients were required to work. this bipartisan reform reduced welfare rolls. on july 12th president obama quietly ended the work requirement gutting health care reform. they say if you want to get more people to work, you don't loosen the requirements, you tighten them. mitt romney's plan for a stronger middle class puts work back in welfare. >> well, the president didn't end work requirements when he was asked about the romney

attacks, here's what president obama did say. >> you've got governor romney creating as a centerpiece of his campaign this notion that we're taking work requirements out of welfare, which every single person here who has looked at it says is patently false. they can run the campaign that they want, but the truth of the matter is you can't just make stuff up. that's one thing that you learn as president of the united states. you get called into account. >> so why is romney the candidate for president of the republican side focused on welfare, and what's the message he's trying to send to voters? james peterson is director of african studies, and sam steen is a political he had for for the huffington post and a contributor to msnbc. i want to start with james on this. awhat do you make of this? they're running it relentlessly and throwing in bill clinton him

here. they make him the good guy and obama the bad guy. i see race here, and i don't see it all the time. i see welfare queens and food stamp talk. it's the same oel -- it's not even code. it's direct. my thought. yours? >> it's pretty direct. no, you're right here, chris, and i'm glad that we can move beyond this ad. this ad has been debunked aacross the board. joe stcarborough came against te ads as being inaccurate. why are they used? there are racial codes inherent about public assistance and welfare. we can talk about the history of welfare queens and the ways in which welfare has been racialized historically. once we realize they're not accurate, we have to conclude that the romney campaign has a sinister strategy here about welfare and public assistance being only used and exploited and fraudulently used sometimes by people of color. >> you know, sam, i remember

during the primary campaign it got heated, and i enjoyed it. it got so heated for a while there. people said obama was the food stamp president. that was more direct than this. i'm sorry. your thoughts on this? is this simply trying to get the certain percentage of the white non-college vote up to the level they need it at even at the cost of being ridiculed by the projected umpires of the business that know that the ads aren't right. >> the nbc wall street jump had it at 94-0 for obama. if that'sment premise, you have to get the other votes on. >> we've had ron christie on here a lot. ere are obviously some african-americans who are voting for romney, so i don't buy that poll. i just don't buy it. >> it's not statistically significant, chris. >> my point is the same. you end up having to -- if you run a campaign, you have to run up the margins where it counts.

my colleague arthur delaney looked into this noted a study that a brown professor did to show they're resonating among working class web voters. the historical legacy is clear. they resonate with a certain audience. that's the audience mitt romney needs to drive to get an election and he's testing the president proposition you can't make it up. he's making it up, and we'll see if it works. >> as the first blog pointed out today, the welfare line of attack has a lot to do. he has to expand the white voters out there. the poll shows romney up by 13 points among white voters generally, but that's one point better than john mccain did in 2008 according to exit polls that year. of course, mccain lost decisive. the argument seems to be in a real politics sort of way as nasty as these ads are, as inaccurate as they could be, they achieve a goal, which is to get the white voter especially

the noncollege white voter real reallyticked off at obama that he may personally like. he may have gotten past that and said i like the guy personally, but in this ad he's out there screwing up the system and letting welfare cheats making it easier for themselves. so i have to vote against this guy. >> sam is right. he's references michael tess ler's study, and i don't know the republicans don't like science so much. but it's a statistically important study to think about the larger problem. bottom line is these things appeal to people -- these ads appeal to people more conservative racially who are working class white males, but we have to also remember that if this works for a lot of different issues that don't have the same kind of history as welfare. things like welfare and things like cap and trade are racial idahoed ized in the the political environment we're in. the romney campaign is

sacrificing the public good of our politics for the short-term advantage of getting these two percentage points. >> let me add this. there's a concerted effort by the romney campaign to sort of portray obama as fouling up the clinton legacy. to contrast the two democrats against each other. clinton was a new democrat, and obama was an old liberal status democrat. they want to portray obama as something different than bill clinton was. so they're harking back to welfare reform debates. >> bill clinton signed that bill because he politically that you had he had to. not because he was in love with it. >> bill called these attacks by romney dead wrong. >> he's part of this campaign, too. i think clinton will come out for obama. what do you think? >> he'll come out swinging. >> i'm being sarcastic. he'll campaign like mad. if hillary clinton is going to be president, she has a greater chance if obama gets leekted. how does president obama get white working class voters to come over to their side?

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we're back. white working class voters used to be staunch democrats back when the government helped build the middle class in this country more than a half century ago. but these days they largely fall into the republican camp often

voting against their own economic interests and in favor of the wealthy. it's a frustration for democrats who feel blue collar whites ought to be in their camp but often step on their own message with famously with talk of those very people clinging to their guns and religious. joan walsh the author of "what's the matter with white people?" thank you and congratulations, joan. because i have very much of my own heart because i want to start with this to help sell your book. the bobby kennedy funeral train coming down in '68 through new jersey. and a lot of african-american people along that route emotionally driven, just to the end of their line, losing bobby. >> right. >> and i saw the white people in that same railroad track along those lines, one father and son, apparently, dirty faced, had working jobs. they were probably cleaning up around the yard or something,

regular, regular people, saluting. the father made the kid salute. he's saluting. the emotional connection the democratic party used to have with white working people seems to really be in big disrepair, to put it lightly. >> yeah, and i write about that period in my book. bobby kennedy was one of the last democrats who had a prayer of uniting african-americans and the white working class and latinos. i mean, president obama is trying. and i think he can make some inroads, but when i talk in my book about the golden age that never was, there was a golden age for some of us. you lived through it and i lived through it where we did build the middle class with government programs. we made a decision to flatten ineconomic inekwaquality after world war ii. we built the vast middle class. it was the gi bill, the new deal, mortgage insurance so people could buy homes.

we built public universities, the roads that let us drive out to our suburbs with our white picket fences. i feel like a lot of white working class people don't know or remember or realize the role the government plays. >> i love your theory and it's fact, my dad had the gi bill, came out of the navy in world war ii and got us through school. the money he couldn't help us with, we had nda loans. i was able to borrow when i went to holy cross, $1,000 every year at 3%. you could pay for it when you got out of the grad school, peace core, 3%. dud the middle class enjoy the advantages from the government. my father allowed me to get a really good education, and obviously, remember it. is that going on today? can the average person like us growing up today get those advantages from the government that they can say, yeah, i need government? >> no, first of all, we didn't keep pace with the growth of the population, and so we didn't

build the public yurchts and extend the loans and the pell grants and all that other stuff, tuition has risen astronomically, so evan if you get your pell grant or your loan, you're still going deeper into debt. white people and other middle class people have a lot to be concerned about, have a lot to complain about. i think that the president, we were talking about this all the time now. the president has gotten that message that we are all in this together. we can do it, and government has helped before and government will help you again. and i like his messaging and i think he can make inroads with the white working class. i don't think he's going to win a majority, that's impossible, but he did better with the white working class and white voters than white democrats al gore and john kerry. it's not only about race. i guess that's my final message. i do feel that sometimes we can sound very condescending when we talk about the reservations of the white working class. >> you never sound

condescending. but i tell you the president's been guilty of this. when he made the comment about clinging to guns and religion, he was talking on knob hill, at a fanlsy part of san francisco, talking to people who thing like that, and talking to them in their language, and he got caught on tape talking like them, right? >> but the rest of his message, that was a terrible thing to say, chris, but the rest of his message was that these people have been abandoned and they were also abandoned by the democratic party because we went too far to business and wall street. so there's lots of things he can do. >> talking to the contributors can ruin your language. anyway, thank you were. the book, i love the green cover. there it is for joan walsh, appropriately covered in green. "what's the matter with white people?" i have to go get that book. when we return, let me finish with why the republican rejection of science is downright, i'll say it, un-american. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics.

let me finish tonight with this. from the beginnings of our republic, we americans have been pioneers. we have gone as they say in star trek where no man has gone before. and it's not just geographic exploration. science, understanding the wonders of the university, has been an american frontier since the days when ben franklin put his kite in the air in a storm and excited us with the nature of electricity. and thomas edison and his streak of genius that seems to invent

just about everything. how proud we are when the american physicists and scientists and chemists bring home their bundles of nobel prizes and the engineers and their ability to exploit what we have discovered. yes, be bought to the moon. yes, we did. i use a cell phone and i'm in wonder at the radio wave that can come through concrete walls. at wonder at the information i can command on a little device small enough to fit in my pocket. isn't science wonderful? aren't the people who did it all wonderful. wasn't ronald reagan right when he said his generation, the world war ii generation were born without this wonder, that they were the ones who developed it? >> i don't know where the new ignorance has come from, this refusal to allow scientific effo evidence that the earth is getting warmer as the snow and ice melt. i don't know what came of us, those religious among us that belief in the moral truths of the bibles and understand that