so early to see if willie could make it to work two days in a row. >> i did. back to back, like jeter hitting three home runs in a game. three home runs in consecutive games. going to be here tomorrow too. going to be historic. one more, buddy. >> we have elizabeth writes up with anxiety for an appointment for my wisdom teeth this morning. >> that sounds awful. i have a tweet from john d. jones can we send some money for more light for willie, not sure what effect they're going for there. yes. i was in darkness in our second segment. "morning joe" starts right now. i had a great advantage like some of you have had, it is an advantage. when my dad was dying to live with me and my mom died when she was 92, last four years of her life living with me, and toward the end, and you pay me a lot of money as vice president, and you paid me a good salary when i was a united states senator and my

brother jimmy does well and my sister does well and they have four kids who are successful. guess what? it was still a struggle to make care of all of my mom's bills. we were able to do, no complaint. it was an honor. but you know what it did, we had to lie to my mom and tell her no, honey, this is all covered by your medicare and this is all covered by the sale of your home which it wasn't. because do you know any parent who wants to be a burden for their children? do you know anybody? >> good morning, everyone. look at that beautiful sunrise. >> can i ask you this -- >> over new york city. >> does the vice president give us money for running his speeches in the morning? like this is -- >> no. there's much more. we're going to run about detroit and it being saved by this administration. it's thursday, august 23rd. welcome to "morning joe." with us on set, we have msnbc contributor mike barnicle. mike. >> yes. >> yeah. >> i'm here. >> msnbc political analyst and visiting professor at nyu and

former democratic congressman harold ford jr. >> good morning. >> how are you? >> i'm good. >> hi, willie. >> hi, mika. >> he's being tested this morning, willie is. >> really? >> yeah. enhancement drugs. >> i'm sorry. >> against early morning code, right? >> extenz. >> hear this story? >> what's the wife trying do? to her husband? they don't know. >> and harold ford. >> good morning, sir. >> yeah. >> you were the only conservative on the set yet yesterday. and when that is the state of play. >> yeah. >> holy cow. i just -- >> i am a conservatism. i was a blue dog. >> who wants to be a republican right now. >> i was watching the show yesterday and i just kept going holy cow. and then harold decides to defend paul ryan and says listen, i've got no direct

evidence. >> he is a good hostage video out today. >> he is ever like ripped the heart out of a living woman and eaten it on the spot. i have no evidence of that. everybody on the panel murmured like "planet of the apes." holy cow. it was liberal here yesterday, mika. wow. >> well, um, okay. we were just covering the news. it spoke for itself. >> you said they were liberal. >> yeah. >> awesome. that was fun to watch. >> let's put it this way. >> yes. >> the elements that we had to share with our viewers, really didn't need a liberal panel to -- >> no, it didn't. >> make their point. >> it didn't. >> a little bit of a problem there. >> whether mixed or the opportunities aside, those elements speak for themselves. yeah. >> the guy is not getting out of the race right now? >> no. >> until the money drys up. >> it's -- yeah. nope. he's not self-aware.

>> yeah. i mean, can you come up with a worst few days for the republican ticket based upon -- >> right before the convention. >> it's bad. >> kind of hard not to. >> and the ripple effect of it. >> it's bad. >> a piece in the "times" today about something we were speaking about briefly yesterday, the ripple effect on, you know, down ticket, people like scott brown and states around the country, now having to deal with it. >> those swing states, yeah. i don't see how this guy stays in the race. nobody will give him money to speak of. you know one thing you missed yesterday -- >> oh not that you would have criticism. >> it was a great show. in fact, i -- i -- i'm going to put it on a loop actually when i get home today. >> i know you are. >> willie and i going to the holiday inn and do a loop. >> you should study it. >> one thing was missed though. >> uh-huh. >> there's a tightening in the battleground states and the nbc news/"wall street journal" poll -- >> in fairness chuck mentioned

that. >> all the fur flying and the craziness and all that other stuff, everybody got their little red books out, the one thing that was missed was there is actually a pretty substantial tightening of the swing states and this is stuff that we don't see in manhattan or, you know, unless you're in the swing states or washington, d.c., and that's just because the romney people are bombarding them with advertisements. there's a national campaign which doesn't matter as much that -- and then there's the swing state campaign and there is a real tightening. >> well, we can show you some new polls this morning. and go back over those. >> that's exciting. >> we have an update from this as well. a new set of battleground polls show president obama leading mitt romney especially when it comes to handling medicare. president obama nearly leads mitt romney in florida and ohio. romney is within the margin of error. race in florida is tightening. last month obama was 51%, romney

at 45%. in yesterday's nbc/"wall street journal" battleground poll mitt romney has expanded his support in key states by four points president obama's lead has sh frung 50 to 49%. >> look at that. harold, and again, i'm not spinning here, it's been a horrific week for the republicans, i just want all of our viewers to be aware, that there is a race that they may not see in their homes if they're outside of the 10 or 12 swing states because they're not getting killed with 30-second ads all the time. harold, when you're down by 8 points in july it's a panic. when you're in the margin of error, it's ugly but in the race. >> there's no doubt. i thought that even if you look at the top line polling from our nbc/"wall street journal" poll and what chuck shared yesterday there's cause for concern in both campaigns and it's got to be cause for concern in the obama campaign. largely because you -- you're going from 47 to 50, you can't

get above that 50 in some of these key states. you and i both know as you're this close to an election as the incumbent you want to be 50 or higher and be able to stay there. >> i would rather, of course, the be because the president has been consistently ahead in just about every poll. >> there's no doubt about it. in the nbc poll if you look at that approval/disapproval and the wrong direction/right direction, i find those numbers to be indicative and representative of where this thing will end. if you're the white house, you've got to be concerned a bit by these numbers and continue pushing. if you're mitt romney, as bad a week they've had, you look at the cbo report that was talked about this morning on willie's show and across the networks, both campaigns have got to figure out how you seize on that. if you're the white house how you address some of this prior to the election. >> yeah. >> boy. the cbo numbers absolutely horrific. >> we talked about that number right there yesterday, the fact with a 32% right track number, the president is -- still has a

lead is astounding from that point of view. >> it really is. and less than one third of americans think this country is going on the right track. i will say this, after most americans think the president got what he wanted. like we all talk about oh the republicans have stood in the way, they have in a lot of areas. you ask a swing voter in ohio, has the president gotten what he wanted out of congress, yes. he got the stimulus plan, he got his health care plan, he got all of these other plans, the auto bailout, and we've spent more money, the federal government spent more money than ever before. again, i'm not doing an ad campaign for mitt romney here. i'm just -- when you see a number like that, then people that aren't as connected are, you know, are going to go into the voting booth like they did in 1980. i -- maybe the president wins. if mitt romney can find his voice, though, the president would be in big trouble. >> yeah. >> we can talk about everything

the president got that he wanted, all we want, but out in the country, that's kind of like background music. what's out in the country is, first of all, they're dealing with the akin stuff on the republican side. that's a blip right now. and it will stay to some extent throughout the campaign. but the constant in this election, the thing that's there every day, is the economy. >> right. >> every day. >> and mike -- >> don't you think out in the country, you're right, the economy, now the country, when mitt romney if he figures out how to say this, you gave the president four years, he did his best, he passed the biggest spending bill in american history, there was the bank bailout, there was the auto bailout, there was this, there was that. washington's not going to get america back to work. america is going to get america don't you think -- connected to jobs, that's romney's message if he can deliver it. >> it has to be his message.

that's his only shot, really. that's his only shot. >> why has he -- >> and plan. >> getting better, by the way, i think. at least we saw a clip of him on "way too early," just in -- moving through the crowd. he's -- yeah. he's getting better. >> all right. let's -- yeah. >> i was going to say, i was just going to say, i think a lot of americans believe what i believe, and you know, you always -- you're conservative you say the government's, you know -- what was the quote, the government isn't -- >> isn't the solution. the government is the problem. that famous quote. i really believe and i haven't goen into great detail and it's not really anything you can debate, i haven't brought it up much on this show, i really believe that right now, the government is the problem. i really believe that if small business owners, midsized and big business owners knew that they didn't have to worry about new taxes, new regulations, new

this, new that, there wasn't the huge question mark over their heads over the next four years, this $2 trillion, $3 trillion sitting on the sidelines we've heard about, i really do believe that would come flooding into the market and our economy would revive itself. if washington would get out of the way. i'm not saying that's right. >> i know. because that hasn't worked. >> i'm not saying it's wrong. >> that's how you feel. >> that's what i believe right now. and i think -- i don't always believe that. i'm not one of these people that say cut taxes and the chicken weed will disappear from your yard. but harold, i've heard it from so many business owners. i'm not going to hire new people for my small business because i don't know what washington is going to do. ceos say the same thing. liberal ceos say the same thing. there's this huge fear from washington i haven't seen in a while. >> you have the telecom industry and broadband industry which has invested over a quarter of a trillion dollars over the last several years in building out the next generation of

broadband. if we knew broadband wouldn't be regulated over the next few years what would that lead to new investment and jobs and opportunity. we hear it over and over again. the fiscal cliff is a serious issue in the minds of all ceos across the country for the single reason you raised a huge question mark over what they can expect, what they can anticipate and frankly in a new burdens placed upon their and their businesses. if we ran a business, not only would we be worried about that, but there's a new set of laws and regulations congress has passed in terms of responsibilities and accountability for those who hold publicly held companies. say to those in my party and others, these question marks are real issues and not knowing the uncertainty as much as some democrats dismiss it this is a real thing on the minds of people who employ people. >> and, you know, the fiscal cliff, that's the responsibility, obviously, of both parties. i mean that's -- >> that's why congress's approval is at 12%. >> the contempt for congress, republicans in the house and democrats in the senate that run

it from business, is really high as well. >> why don't we go there now. you mentioned the cbo report. we'll go to nb 3, john tower. the nonpartisan congressional budget office warned about the consequences of the fiscal cliff. forecasting the u.s. economy would shrink by a half percent in 2013. unemployment would jump back above 9%. and it could cost americans 2 million jobs next year. its report also said that 2012 will be the fourth straight year with a deficit of more than $1 trillion. >> holy cow. look at that for a second. you know, willie, throughout the middle of the last decade, i was killing george w. bush every day on my show because of an unspeakable $400 billion deficit. killing him. now the president inherited a horrific situation. a terrible economy. but again, who are you going to

hold responsible for four years of a deficit over a trillion dollars per year. you know, from george washington ronald reagan, we didn't accumulate a trillion dollars in debt. over, you know, the first 204 years of our country's history. a trillion a year for the past four years. >> i wonder, we had stephanie cutter on yesterday, who we all respect a great deal, i wonder if the argument that we inherited this mess, still plays with voters. that was the case she made yesterday which is that he inherited a terrible economy, we're digging out, not digging as fast as we would like to, but we inherited this hole and need more time to get out. i wonder, honestly wonder, if that applies. >> who's going to buy that? a trill dlarn deficit. again, we were all going crazy over a $400 billion deficit. ronald reagan has been blasted by liberals for 20 years for leaving the white house with,

what, a $300 billion deficit. a trillion dollars a year. a trillion dollars a deficit per year. first year, you can understand it. horrible economy. second year, you can understand it. digging out of the terrible economy. third year, four years in a row. >> that dog don't hunt. >> no. i don't even think democrats believe that. that's why it could lead to everyone talked about in october surprise, and every presidential election, could be a september surprise. could be the fed acting in the middle of september at their next meeting, the 13th and 14th, i think. >> they've suggested that's the front page of the newspapers this morning, they've made clear they're ready to act if need be if there's no continued upward movement in economic growth which doesn't appear to be the case. >> yesterday mitt romney called the cbo report unacceptable and used the opening to turn the conversation -- >> back to the economy. >> before we talk about that.

what's mitt romney's plan to balance the budget? >> i want to know. we can sit here and hammer this administration -- >> and we should. >> something they inherited. >> we should. it's four years later and it's a trillion dollars. >> i think to an extent you can. but to an extent you really have to be very realistic that, especially tax cuts -- none of this stuff has worked. >> vague. >> for a long time. >> he has got nothing. >> you know what bothers me, too, and we always talk and you had a great conversation yesterday about afghanistan, i loved that conversation, but also what's bugged us on this set for three years, four years, is nobody has come on and said we'll balance the budget in ten years 15, give me a year. i think romney's out to 2040. seriously? why do you even -- why even write up a budget? >> what are you about? >> yeah. if you can't balance the budget in 30 years -- >> i thought that's what they

were about. >> you seriously suck if it takes you 30 years to balance the budget. go home. it is inelegant. also inelegant to steal money from our children. and that's what both sides have been doing for a decade. but that may be the reason he can't move in the polls. he's not laid out, to mike's point, not only vague, but he's even -- even when he puts out a position he runs from it. you embrace paul ryan. i like paul. paul has a budget. you can't run from it, you have to defend it. >> if you don't want people asking you about paul's budget every day, put out your own. >> i would agree. >> if you a budget that doesn't balance until 2040. >> expect criticism. >> you're going to get hammered. by the way, right now, i would be talking about how barack obama needs to be voted out if you care about the budget deficit. i can't say that right now. >> right. >> because mitt romney has given us nothing to believe that he's going to be any better on this

one issue. i believe mitt romney will be better for the economy, i think the economy will grow. >> why? >> that will bring in more revenue. >> why? >> i explained it a couple minutes ago. businessmen and women across america will go okay, he is going to be better for us than barack obama who we don't think even understands how you create a job. that is liberals, conservatives. we've all heard it. that's why i think that the deficit -- i think the economy will grow with mitt romney more than barack obama. but as far as a long range deficit plan, he's got nothing that a true small government conservative would like. >> here's mitt romney yesterday. >> when you look at all of the debt in the country, why, it's about the size of our entire economy. this puts us on a path to become like europe. what's happening over there is that people have spent more than they have taken in year after year after year, borrowed more and more money, made promises they couldn't fulfill and

finally, something which had to end, did end. and what happened there was that the government had to pull back with severe austerity programs and people in government and the private sector lost their jobs, 25% unemployment rate, 25%. in spain. think of that. these are the kinds of circumstances that are going to arrive here if we stay on the path we're on. >> willie -- >> good he's concerned. >> i agree with him 100%. i believe barack obama's vision of an economy does lean, has european flair to it, i believe that. so, romney's got it and said it well. what are you going to do differently? how are you going to balance the budget before 2040? i -- and there is no answer. he has given no answer. >> he's talking about a swollen safety net, a government safety net. so when he's talking about

europe, running up bills we can't pay. >> right. >> what does that mean here? working on medicare, working on social security. paul ryan did that. he put out his budget. doesn't balance until 2040 and got his head chopped up for proposing the idea. so perhaps that's why mitt romney is not getting into specifics about what he wants to do with medicare. >> what are they doing? they're running 30-second ads attacking barack obama for what? not for being reckless on medicare. >> right. >> or cutting medicare. >> right. >> stealing. >> really? >> really? are we serious? is there not a serious political party in this country? i would love -- you know what, if there were a conservative party in america right now, the republicans and the democrats would both be in a lot of trouble. a real conservatives. like you said, small government conservatives that were consistent. >> but would that conservatism party have what's lacking in this dialog from both parties, we've mentioned this word 100,000 times in the last year,

courage. the courage to tell the american people the truth. the american people know what the truth is. like, for instance, you know, cutting the deficit, what's the biggest drain, the biggest entitlement program, it's medicare, correct? has -- we hear any politician stand up there running for the presidency, saying you know, for everyone out there who is 54, 44, 34, retirement age is going to go up. we have to do that. we're going to have means testing. >> here's the question, find the one -- because you will hear republicans say that. and then you will hear democrats saying, raise taxes. we've got to get rid of the bush tax cuts. >> yeah. >> name the one politician on the national stage that says we have to do both. >> oh. >> we have to get rid of the bush tax cuts and really go after the rate of growth in medicare, med cade. give me the one politician. sort of like, you know, with -- remember when you were growing up and they would have these numbers and a circle here and there. which one is intersect and like

in the middle and you would shade it. there ain't nobody in the middle you can shade. ten years ago, 15 years ago, there were a lot of people in that middle that said, listen, you know what, it's horrible but we have to really go after medicare and medicaid's growth and we're going to have to reform taxes, so we bring in more revenue to the federal government. >> maybe it's because they really pay attention to what's in the papers. and harold could speak to this. whenever any large company in this country gets in trouble financially and begins to address their problems realistically, they have layoffs. they have cutbacks. you read the papers, this company is a horrible company. they've just laid off 1500 people. they did it to save the company. down the end of the road. >> yeah. >> the government's in the same position right now. >> yep. >> we have to cut back or else the whole thing is going to come down. >> what you described is called simpson-bowles. >> right. >> that's the one place we found both of those things. republicans said we're not going

to raise taxes. democrats said we're not going after medicare. that's in a nutshell -- >> gridlock. >> give them some credit. they did step forward. i give them credit because they both come from different sides of their -- totally different sides of the political spectrum and they stepped up. >> you know what, those are, mika, those two guys, are -- dick durbin so much more liberal than i am but he stepped out and had courage to say we've got to go after entitlements. we can't keep entitlents up. tom coburn incurred the rat of a lot on the right for being honest as well. people like saxby chambliss. >> give them credit. >> saxby stepped forward and in georgia that ain't an easy thing to do. >> so here is the reality that frames the conversation before we go to break, a new report finds that america's middle class is shrinking and facing its worst decade in modern history. among pew research center's

findings median household incomes dropped from nearly $73,000 in 2001 to $69,000 in 2010 per median household net worth the value of assets minus debt, the numbers are even more stark, dropping from almost $130,000 down to $93,000. over the same decade. the study also finds there's a lot less money going into the middle class. in 1970s the middle class held 62% of the drin's total income. wealthy americans received 29%. those numbers have now shifted with 45% going to the middle class and 46% now going to upper income class americans. the middle class is getting more pessimistic about the future. 43%. now believe their children will have a better life than their own. that number was 51% just four years ago. >> yeah. this is depressing stuff. >> yeah. >> really depressing stuff.

and, you know, i told mika, i want to write a new book about american politics. i can't say the title on the air. >> you can do it fa netically. >> it's all b.s. republicans saying just cut taxes more and all these problems will go away and we'll grow the middle class and it will be an opportunity society and growth will explode and blah-blah-blah. and then democrats will say if we will only get rid of the bush tax cuts then the rich will stop getting rich and the poor will stop getting poor and the middle class will grow. you know, you'll get free, you know, drinks at starbucks for the rest of your life. blah-blah-blah. it's all b.s. rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer because for 40 years our economy has been changing. and we have, you know, we've had -- we have gone from an egare kwan society to an industrial society to an information society. we had an i.t. revolution and it has displaced a lot of people.

these political parties are just stupid. in their simple-minded solutions -- >> they're in the way. >> they're in the way. >> they're in the way. it's unbelievable. >> all right. we didn't talk about todd akin for 25 minutes. >> that's pretty good. >> yeah. >> we will. >> by the way, the information mika just walked us through on the middle class is the subject of a new ad out this morning where president bill clinton stumps for president obama. >> really if had? >> talks about this is the core issue, we're going to grow the middle class. mark halperin says, quote, big dog still got game, president clinton. >> big dog still has game. >> all next week our special coverage of the republican national convention will be live from our "morning joe" elephant bar. is that outside? >> yeah. >> oh, boy. >> what? >> no, it's inside. >> on channelside avenue in tampa. coverage begins at 5:30 and, of course, with "way too early," coming up, we'll bring in executive editor of the "new

york times" jill abramson boone pickens and hope he doesn't bring his dog, actor richard bellzer and rick stengel with a look at the new issue of ta"tim magazine. first bill karins with the latest on tropical storm isaac. bill? >> bring your rain gear, guys. monday night and tuesday right now at least tampa looks like it could be dealing with isaac. let me show you the latest on the storm. it's been struggling not much of a storm right now. a huge size wise but it's not that intense. it's a very weak tropical storm. but it still has a long ways to go. about five days before it gets near tampa, four days before it gets to the keys. the hurricane center believes it should be at that time either a strong tropical storm or a category 1 hurricane. but when these storms have the potential to go over the warm waters of the gulf you never know. compared to 24 hours ago the forecast for the east coast of florida has improved much worse now for northern portions of the gulf and northeast gulf including airs from mississippi,

alabama, apalachicola and panama city still at risk for the storm including our friends from fort meyers to naples to tampa. excellent agreement for this far in advance for our computers. show the storms going over sf and heading for the northeast corner of the gulf. here's what concerns me. look at the water temperatures, 89 degree water temperatures off key west, 85 off tampa. all you need is 80 degree water for a hurricane to strengthen. you get this is like high octane fuel for a hurricane. this is where hurricane katrina and rita grew into a huge beast. forecast for today pretty quiet around the northeast, very quiet morning around the united states and this is typically the case before a big storm comes. i don't expect many issues out there today. updates on isaac throughout the day here on "morning joe" and on msnbc. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. this is the plan that revolves around you.

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let's take a look at the morning papers. >> yes. >> mika, this west nile virus, holy cow. >> it's an amazing story from a parade of papers, "the chicago tribune," the country is enduring the worst west nile virus season since the first outbreak back in 1999. so far this year more than 1,000 cases resulting in 41 deaths. in texas, the outbreak is especially bad and government officials have resorted to a controversial technique of using planes to spray insecticide. >> and the "dallas morning news," children of older fathers are more likely to develop autism and schizophrenia. the new study finds the risk of random mutations increases with age in fathers but not mothers. the findings suggest that could

account at least in part for the surging rate of autism, perhaps as many as 30% of all cases and mika, people have been grappling with what has been causing the explosive spike in autism for the past 20 years, 30 years, is it environmental causes. this is -- >> come up as a concern in the past. >> when this broke in "the new york times" yesterday, i just -- you know, sort of personal with our family. we're like oh, my gosh, that does make sense. because people are having kids at an older age now than ever before. >> for sure. >> "the new york times," afghan officials say foreign spies are to blame for the streak of deadly insider attacks. afghan soldierings and police officers have turnz on their counterparts, killing ten americans in the last two weeks. >> seriously. >> an afghan investigation -- >> bring them home. >> cited evidence of phone calls and letters which they say link the afghan gunman to

intelligence groups and other countries. nato recently concluded 90% of the attacks came from personal disputes, stress or cultural clashes. >> bring them home. willie? >> let's go to politico, joining us now with a look at the playbook, executive editor jim vandehei. good morning. >> good morning. how are you? >> doing all right. >> we talked about this a moment ago. haven't seen it yet, though. the obama campaign rolling out a new ad featuring president bill clinton. let's take a look at it. way to go, t.j. >> god, t.j. holy cow. t.j. tells me in the break, i'll get the ad. >> is he in there. >> it's ready. i got it. >> core of the campaign. really have to see this. >> what you do for a livings, how about that? >> can you put down the beer, okay. the weekend is coming. can you press the button. >> we're ready. >> one thing i ask you to do, tell me before i throw to it. just say -- >> we're not ready because i'm

finishing -- >> jim, could you describe -- >> i think he said he's got it. >> describe with shadow puppets what the ad looks like. >> i'll do it right now. >> this election to me is about which candidate is more likely to return us to full employment. this is a clear choice. the republican plan is to cut more taxes on upper income people and go back to the deregulation. that's what got us in trouble in the first place. president obama has a plan to rebuild america from the ground up. investing in innovation, education and job training. it only works if there is a strong middle class. that's what happened when i was president. we need to keep going with his plan. >> i'm barack obama, i approve this message. >> can we talk about how good he looks? >> yeah. >> president clinton. >> yeah. come on. he's the natural. >> he is. >> he's robert redford. he's the natural. >> he's the big dog. >> he's the big dog. >> he makes everybody else look really, really smart. >> jim, this is running in like

eight swing states if i have my numbers right. tell us how this came about? >> i mean, one, i don't think you're operating from a position of strength when you have to harken backen to an economy well over a decade ago is what they want to aim for. what they're doing is trying to get the focus back on the economy in saying listen, like it's going to be better under president obama. and they can't point to the last four years so they want to say listen, if you get republicans, you're going to get lower taxes for the rich and get deregulation. and they think that having clinton as the person delivering it, particularly when republicans are running an ad featuring bill clinton on welfare reform, that it's a powerful way to lead in to the conventions. you guys talked about big dog, good on camera. there's no doubt people will pay a lot of attention to this ad at a good time for obama. >> boy, how things have changed in four years. four years ago, bill clinton was pushed to the side, willie, and barack obama, you know, i

don't -- gale collins or maureen, obama was the alpha male of the republican -- of the democratic party. i would sur seriously if i were one of the president's people be concerned about having bill clinton there. it reminds democrats and americans of the '90s and there is such a stark contrast between then and the past four years. >> i wouldn't be. i would handcuff myself to bill clinton if i were barack obama. i'm not letting this guy out of my sight. he's going to be copresident with me. >> yeah. >> he's going to help me out. i'm listening to him. >> yeah. >> he sure didn't for like three years. >> yeah. >> i thought the idea from the obama campaign's point of view was not to talk about the economy, they were kind of relishing the couple weeks where the focus wasn't on how bad things were. >> you can't not talk about the economy when every single poll shows that's the issue people care about the most. they have to figure out a way to navigate it. they don't talk about the specific economy the last couple years because it hasn't been a

great economy. they can't talk about improvement in the next couple of months between now and election day because no one anticipates a real improvement, even if the fed does move in coming weeks you're going to be looking at an election day that looks like the economy we see today. they have to figure out a way to navigate it, pointing to clinton who is a big figure, popular figure, might help them. one of the arguments republicans are trying to make, obama let you down, he wasn't up to the job. pointing to bill clinton, there's a little risk, you have clinton he did the job we think a president should do. why didn't barack obama do it? >> all right. jim vandehei, thanks. >> what do you think, harold? do you think it's a good idea having that -- >> he is the most compelling figure in the party today. >> right. >> i agree with mike, if i were president obama, i would make clear that i'm going to listen to and consult with this former president, because he understands that the middle class is most important and the last democratic president, the

last president to really put the middle class first other than myself if i'm obama, this guy and we got to keep it going. i would be right with the a rk.ent. i agree with vut 1980 and the democratic and republican conventions, actually 76 and the republican convention when gerald ford was made to look so small by ronald reagan who delivered a hell of a speech at the top of his head and changed the republican party. and again, minimized gerald ford and four years later, teddy kennedy's speech, holy cow. what did it do? it made people go, oh. we've got to vote for jimmy carter. >> yeah. i don't think obama has to worry about that. >> they're not competing against each other, though. ford he got -- >> i'm talking about at the conventions -- >> theatrics of it. >> the president's extraordinary on the big stage. no doubt about it. i'm just -- he's not gerald ford or jimmy carter.

but when we just saw bill clinton, what was our reaction. >> wow. >> he -- he good. >> you guys are so easily -- >> he good. he's good at the game. he's the natural. and barack obama, mitt romney, not. not. >> clinton is more believable. >> yeah. >> well -- >> he's got, thanks to republicans like me, be you know, 21 million new jobs. >> there you go. i knew you would get it in there. >> he couldn't leave it out. >> we balanced the budget, forced him to pass welfare reform. we did a lot of things that helped him write his biography and make him the man he is today. we also impeached him but it was the '90s. >> everybody was doing it. >> that's funny. the president wrote me, you know, to joe, one of these pictures, with great appreciation. bill clinton. and i hung it in my law office in one of my partners came in and said, appreciation for what?

impeaching him? it was a very complex thing. >> different times. >> jim vandehei, thanks. we'll talk to you. >> take care. >> don't mess with joe girardi during his postgame press conference. >> this is not good. >> yankees manager goes after a heckler. we'll show you. >> he's routed out too. okay, here's the plan. you have a plan? first we're gonna check our bags for free, thanks to our explorer card. then, the united club. my mother was so wrong about you. next, we get priority boarding on our flight i booked with miles. all because of the card. and me. okay, what's the plan? plan? mm-hmm. we're on vacation. this is no plan. really? [ male announcer ] the united mileageplus explorer card. the mileage card with special perks on united. get it and you're in.

the yankees trying to avoid a sweep against the al central leading white sox last night. here's how it happened. left arm of a kid named sail, with help from hawk harrison. >> here you go. >> the payoff pitch. yes, he did. he gone. he gone. he gone. he gone. change-up. he gone. he gone. >> hawk harrelson. chris sale struck out 13 new york yankees. sweep the new york yankees. after the game joe girardi held an impromptu press conference outside the locker room with reporters. when a white sox fan after a couple drinks on the south side started heckling girardi. >> yankees swept. yes! >> 13 strikeouts what made him so good tonight?

>> what's made him good all year. >> shut up. i'm doing an interview. >> [ inaudible ]. >> what he does all the time. got good stuff, a good fastball. real good breaking ball and change-up and he mixes. he's done it all year long. >> right back into the answer. there you go. >> take care of something. >> they're first place. >> got swept. >> bad move. >> emotional. we talked about the suspension, the steroid suspension. melky cabrera, last week, 50 games. yesterday another 50 game suspension goes to big old bartolo colon. >> i would never guess. >> what a surprise. >> he's on steroids. >> performance enhancing drugs. >> his teammates believe it or not said they were stunned. >> really? >> oh, man. what are they drinking? >> the best response -- i don't know if that's steroids or like -- >> he's got muscles on top of his ears. >> burger king. >> two years off, throwing 93, 94 when he's bigger than jabba

the hut. come on. i would have never seen this coming. >> why apologize. >> these those aren't muscles. the best response interest the wife of oakland a's pitcher brandon mccarthy. >> she kurnds kernds? >> amanda mccarthy very funny went on to twitter and wrote, hey @mlb extenze is offering a two week free trial i want to get my husband brandon. that's cool with the ped rules. if you don't know, it's a product that claims to promote natural male enhancement. looking for an extension for her husband. >> tell her husband what are you doing to your husband? he has to go into the clubhouse tonight. >> amanda, nice work. >> just stop it, mike. >> at your age, come on man. >> up next -- >> it causes heart attacks for you, stop. good lord. i can't believe -- i cannot even believe -- do you believe that? [ male announcer ] when a major hospital

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i'm proud of my record. mitt romney is going to be the president, the president sets policy. his policy is exceptions for rape, incest, life of the mother. i'm comfortable with it because it's a good step in the right direction. >> can we blame nancy for the todd akin thing, before dan senor started work with paul ryan, had we heard of todd akin? >> no. >> thought about confronting him on his stance about abortion and rape? >> this is dan senor's fault. you know what else, this hurricane coming to tampa. >> true. >> and going to blow apart the republican national convention. since dan senor got actively involved, can we show the picture again. he's become the t.j. of american politics. you don't want him around because once he got -- everything goes bad.

>> paul ryan -- look at dan, he knows it's his fault too. >> was there talk of a hurricane before dan? >> no. that's what i'm saying. >> any talk -- >> it lines up. you think about it, i know i'm sounding like mel gibson in "conspiracy theory" but line it all up the guy goes on the campaign, everything gets ruined. >> do we have another -- >> look at this. what they should call that, hurricane senor. hurricane senor. it's going through the caribbean, put one of the squiggly things over the n or whatever you put it over. >> geez. >> it's his fault. it's his fault. can we see this again? this is the work of dan senor right here. >> lieutenant dan. >> lieutenant dan. >> seriously. the guy is -- bad news, mika. bad news. paul ryan better figure it out. >> paul ryan is being -- >> lady i >> one of the squiggly things. >> you can tell i ran in north florida and not south florida.

so anyway, seriously, he's -- paul, read a fellow, you'll know what i'm talking about. >> know what i'm going to do. >> what's that? >> save the sound bite i was going to run right now and the must read about legitimate rape, and the issue plaguing the republican party and paul ryan trying to deal with the fact that he's got some really, really difficult things to confront in terms of his record, and how women are going to really look at this ticket now from now on, for the top of the hour. so we can spend more time on it. okay? you can talk about whatever you want to talk about. what do you want to talk about? hurricanes? >> no. these taylor swift pictures with this kennedy kid -- >> it's bad. >> seriously. >> must be really bad? >> yeah. i agree with this. >> in new york, we see this every day. why are we seeing this every day in new york. are they like jon meacham, do they have their personal photographer who takes pictures wherever they go?

seriously? >> good question. >> seriously. >> yeah. they went to the hyannis putt putt course. everywhere they go. pictures. how old is this kid? >> he's 18. >> goes back to high school i think next week. >> oh. >> why doesn't taylor go back -- i mean seriously. this is weird. really? >> last weekend, yeah. >> come on, man. >> taylor swift was there? >> yes. >> like -- that's some bad news right there. >> i would agree. >> we'll save this all for the top of the hour. just a reminder next week our special coverage of the republican national convention will be live from our own "morning joe" elephant bar in tampa. stop by if you're awake. "morning joe" back in a moment. music: "make someone happy" music: "make someone happy" ♪it's so important to make someone happy.♪ it's so important to make someone happy.♪ ♪make just one heart to heart you - you sing to♪

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is it time? >> yeah. >> really? >> harold, thank you. >> i know. >> we have another republican coming on. >> coming up next -- i kid because i love. only conservative on yesterday. >> yeah, okay. >> we're fine without you. executive editor for "the new york times" jill abramson. >> this is exciting. >> look forward to this. the co-founder mark mckinnon, we're back in a moment.

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♪ we here at the republican national committee offer heartfelt apologies to the good people of -- >> name of state here. >> for the behavior of. >> name of congress person here. >> we were appalled that the congress person offended people who. >> gender sexual orientation, race or religion here. >> with his. >> insensitive remark public rest room naked frolicking grab here. >> this was paid for. >> buy hard casino tie koon dirt bag national here. >> it's funny.

welcome back to "morning joe" look at capitol hill. mike barnicle with us and joining us on set contributor to "newsweek" and the daily bees and vice chair, mark mckinnon. we also have executive editor from "the new york times" jill abramson who made this year's list of "forbes" most powerful women. >> she's like number five with a bullet on the planet. >> look at this list. >> yeah. >> if i can show you, it must be good to be jill today. >> number one the lady who runs europe. number two the lady that runs the world. >> yep. >> number three the president -- >> lady who runs brazil. >> melinda gates and then jill. >> not bad. >> it's an honor, but the only power i have derives from the impact of the journalism of my colleagues. >> that sounds good. >> spreading the love. >> mike barnicle. >> speaking of which, yesterday -- >> we were moved. >> front page story in "the new

york times" extended takeout on the casualty count in afghanistan and within the body of the paper inside, four clear pages, pictures the dead, 2,000. >> very powerful. >> congratulations to "the new york times." >> thank you very much. >> for doing something that more newspapers both local, regional, small and large, ought to be doing, to make sure that people in this country are aware of something that politicians apparently are unaware of. >> yes. >> and journalists. >> it's the longest war in our history. >> well, the -- in the lead, the lead, of yesterday's front page piece in the times, involved the 21-year-old lance corporal young marine. >> gregory buckley. >> from oceanside, long island, and when you tell people in terms as joe, we did last week, and we did yesterday, he was 10 years old when this war began. he was getting a school bus at this time in his life, 11 years ago. and now he's dead in

afghanistan. >> it's remarkable. and on the front page was that extremely emotional picture of his parents after his death and, you know, the collective images of the soldiers on those four pages just looking out at you, is really something. i was in afghanistan a year ago, you know, doing some reporting, checking in on our reporters there, and went out and it's remarkable how committed, you know, our soldiers are to their mission there. you talk to them, they believe in it, they're trying to make afghanistan better. it's a difficult task. >> it's a terrible task, jill. one of our great frustrations over the past three, four years here on the set, is the politicians and the diplomats will come on and will ask why we're there, why are young men and women dying and they don't have an answer. sometimes they'll say we're in

afghanistan because of pakistan. and then after this, after the camera turns off they just sort of sit there and shake their head. they don't have a good answer. and "the new york times" did something yesterday that -- and you guys have been covering this, of course better than everybody else certainly in print, why hasn't the media focused more on this directionless war over the past three years? >> you know, i think it's difficult to cover. it's dangerous. it's ten years plus. you know, the attention span of the media especially in your corner of the trade television is not always sustained on a story like that, and i think in the coming year there will be more coverage because we're looking at the draw down of troops and what will happen in afghanistan after that is an

important story. >> let's hope we have a draw down. >> one thing i think that's interesting about all that, "60 minutes" former head of the cia involved the cia, saying my job is to take out the taliban. we did that. my job wasn't to build schools and -- that wasn't part of our mission. it is -- it does beg the question. >> winning -- >> take out the taliban. >> but now the worry is that the taliban is creeping back in very visible ways there and that's part of the mission now, is to try to prevent that. >> well, that's -- and that's the problem. i'm sorry, i'll say -- >> kind of stuck. >> your side of the trade and my side of the trade, you being an exception on your side of the trade and us being exceptional on ours to be quite honest with you, have ignored the fact that this mission has changed completely. as dr. brzezinski said i think your father was pressing it three years ago, we have to separate al qaeda from the

taliban. al qaeda wants to blow up buildings in new york and washington, the taliban doesn't. and i think that still is a distinction lost on a lot of policymakers, right? why don't more reporters press these politicians? because we don't like barack obama tripling the number of troops in afghanistan. but mitt romney and paul ryan seem to want them there longer and yet we don't -- we don't hear questions on the campaign trail about afghanistan. >> i think, joe, you're right. that these issues are not paramount in the campaign, especially right now in the lead up to the conventions in that they should be pressing the president and mitt romney and some of his foreign policy advisers. >> and dan senor, i told you, blame everything on dan senor. >> well, we're going to get back to dan senor. >> 2030. >> i think it will be a focus on foreign policy. >> in the debates i'm hoping.

there's a real conversation. >> there's usually one debate that has a foreign policy -- >> this would be one question, right, in one debate. >> it's absent from the campaign. >> what's so obscene, somebody brought it up yesterday, politicians in washington have known, mark, this war, as as redefined over the past three to four years, to take out the taliban was unwinnable. nobody, republicans or democrats alike be the president didn't want to be weak, and be the democratic president that quit afghanistan, and the republicans are obsessed with making him look weak. >> where is the popular uprising among voters? >> oh, that's easy to answer. coverage of the war, as jill pointed out, it's an enormously dangerous war to cover and enormously expensive war to cover. >> to keep a fully staffed bureau in kabul with security and -- >> and people who subscribe to "the new york times" or "the

boston globe" or "the washington post" or the "l.a. times" or who buy it off newsstands, they have no -- most of them have no investment in this war. >> and there's no draft. >> this war is being fought by fewer than 1% of us. >> yeah. >> that's the power of those photos, i think. >> oh it is. >> you feel -- i know -- i must know one of these. >> right. >> people. >> it's personal. >> we don't. >> i know. >> that's the problem. we don't. >> isn't it amazing, you know, ted coppell did this, i guess, what in '03/ '04, was it ted coppell that did this? >> yes. >> there was a big outcry. about it when showing the faces of the dead. i don't know why there was a big outcry. it's almost -- seems almost like the politicians and a lot of reporters and a lot of others, just don't want to hear about it. don't want to see it. that's why i loved what you did yesterday. you know, "the times" forced americans to look at these

soldiers and marines who gave their all, in the eye. >> you know, joe, we spoke earlier today about, you know, the deficit, trillion dollars of deficits. >> right. >> how much is going towards afghanistan. >> yeah. and we addressed -- >> we're over $2 billion a week. >> and we addressed the issue of courage or lack thereof among politicians to speak sense to this, to talk about the entitlement programs and cutting entitlement programs to deal with the deficit. we also have a lack of courage in dealing with afghanistan. >> yeah. >> this is not our country. it is a largely illiterate nation with a median age of 17 years, 8 months. >> right. >> there is -- >> you go there and then trackability of the situation becomes evident. when you are driving you see still some of the soviet tanks on the roadside. rusting away. >> it's unbelievable. >> what is our objective, to get

it up to the 18th century? >> there's no objective. you know. by the way the people that knew afghanistan, former great "new york times" reporter dexter filkins came in and told us like four years ago, you can't bomb -- unlike iraq you can't bomb afghanistan to the 15th century because they're in the 2nd century. he was right. let me ask you, for those of us who are old in the house, you know, newspapers, we love -- i've done -- >> i love seeing you hold it. >> i know. >> i hug one copy and as i told you before, i try to, i hug one and burn the other. but this is such -- for most of us around this table, this is our life. this has been our life since we were young. getting -- and for me, i've said the before, it's been the "times" but for others "the post" or "the wall street journal". what's the state of the newspaper business today?

three or four years ago it seemed tough with the transition to digital. but are things looking up a bit now? >> i think things are looking up at the "new york times" and the print newspaper isn't going anywhere. we're, you know, making the digital transition, i believe, very successfully. and some of the things that you're hugging in the newspaper even more powerfully displayed and more informative on the web and on our apps and you know, we have a robust readership of people who feel getting home delivery of the print "new york times" is still essential to their day. >> right. >> my job is to try to keep it that way. to make it an essential part. >> you're doing partnerships with publications like the texas tribune, right? >> right. although, you know, that's an on-line news organization. >> right. >> that's how you're looking forward and doing things differently and adapting to the

new environment, right? >> right. we're trying to do that internationally too, which is very exciting. you can reach, you know, digitally you can reach a much larger audience which gives you another set of opportunities. >> you had a stop/start with paying for the "times" on-line. >> years ago. >> how is it going now? has that -- has this transition gone well? >> it's going very well. all of the numbers are actually initially in now a year into it. quite good and quite strong and it's created, you know, a new revenue stream that's very important at "the times" and print newspapers, there's always advertising and circulation and digitally mostly ads, but now, we're leading the way trying to, you know, really make a big success in, you know, digital

subscribers. >> what percentage of your readers are in the tri-state area and what percentage are outside the tristate area? >> it's a great question, and "the times" is less of a new york is still, you know, part of our dna and important to the soul of the publication, but the actual metro area has over time been, you know, not, you know, the main part of our print. >> right. >> readership. and on-line. it's more of an international and national audience. but, you know, it's an incredible source of news. it's a focus of our energy. >> right. >> it's less of a new york paper than it was when i was growing up here. >> and that -- >> and reading it. >> as editor you have to obviously take that into

consideration. it doesn't change the dna of the paper, but it certainly does change -- like the editorial page. 1% of the readers in manhattan are from manhattan. the editorial page i'm sure will drive me crazy to the day i die because that is the heart and soul of manhattan and who you ultimately represent. but the rest of the paper does change a bit. it has to change a bit, doesn't it? as "times" readership becomes more diverse. >> it changes. if you look at the front page i think over the past year while i've been executive editor, you'll find a lot of very gripping regional and new york stories. >> right. >> whether we're doing a series on new jersey, half way houses, that are not doing a good job, or, you know, recently chuck schumer's matching up all of the staffers that work for him and, you know, being a marriage broker. >> yeah. >> that, you know, we -- new york is still very much in the

dna of the "new york times." >> and ideologically they've stayed true to their mission too, because as you know, there will occasionally be a story that will drive me absolutely batty. which is good. >> i'm going to get to a must read from "the new york times" right now which i promised i would get to. >> okay. >> this is charles, about the todd akin controversy which we also have paul ryan more talking about on the campaign plane, his position on abortion, but first charles, the noxious legitimate rape comment by todd akin has me pun dering a simple question, why do any women vote republican presiden . dch

. >> and despite their efforts to focus squarely on the economy and trying to create new jobs, mitt romney and paul ryan were getting these questions. congressman todd akin of missouri have forced these republicans into a national conversation about the hot button social issues of abortion and rape. yesterday, paul ryan said he would follow mitt romney's lead on the issue. later ryan was pressed to explain the meaning behind the term forcible rape, which appeared in legislation that he cosponsored with akin and other republicans. take a listen. >> you sponsored legislation that has the language forcible rape. what is forcible rape? >> rape is rape. rape is rape period. end of story. >> so that forcible rape language meant nothing to you at the time? >> rape is rape. and there's no splitting hairs over rape. >> all right. hey, mark. >> how is it going?

>> yeah. >> mark, the thing is, we could answer charles blow, why do any women vote republican, because we know inside the republican party, some of the most conservative people in the party on social issues are women. they just are. in our party. that said i've told this story a lot on this -- around this table, that when santorum's campaign started getting obsessed with contra semgceptiv the press's coverage and now this is coming up, this makes even the most conservative women of the republican party roll their eyes and go, what the hell is happening? you hear women say i'm pro life. >> your wife is a good example. >> she is. >> what's her reaction? >> as i've said before she's never voted for a democratic president in her life and during the primary she and all of her very republican friends who always lecture me on abortion. >> from the south. >> from the south telling me i need to be more conservative on

abortion and no exceptions and all this other stuff they're like our party is run by idiots. >> makes us look prehistoric. >> how do we elect a guy like that in the primary because you look at the way he thinks and if that's supposed to be representative of the people we're electing in republican primaries it's problematic. >> why did paul ryan sign on to this bill? he fad had future in the republican party. what is forcible rape? does anybody have daughters out there? >> 200 republicans signeded on. >> that is the question. >> who's pushing? who told -- on paul ryan's staff, let me tell you -- >> i'm trying to figure out what is the definition. >> no excuses for paul ryan, but you cosponsor a lot of bills because your people come and say this is a bill, you do this, and who's on the bill and they mention the names of everybody on the bill. put me on the bill. pro life bill -- 200 -- 200? 200 republicans sign on to a bill that defines rape as

forcible rape. >> let's find out where forcible came from. i would like to hear that? >> there's a difference between consensual rape? i mean -- >> you see -- >> it's not like a new term. >> i'm trying to figure out what the origin of it was or is. >> this has been going around for a while. they had a doctor on last night -- >> we actually were the first to write about him. >> yeah. >> about this guy, he was stunning watching him -- watching what he said. >> well, and the problem for you, joe, and me, talking to our wives and daughters and, you know, trying to say how do we defend against this kind of representation? >> i'll tell you what, i had, you know, my daughter's 9 years old and she asked us a couple weeks ago, who you voting for? who are we for? are we for obama or romney? and my wife for the first time was quiet. she just kept driving the car.

and didn't say anything. she was like i'll get back to you on that. >> oh, my. >> that's an i'm not going to vote until this clears up. and again, i just say, she's lectured me on the need to be more conservative on abortion. i think no exceptions if you believe it's murder it's murder. and yet she and her very socially conservative friends think this party has lost their mind. >> look how this has flipped. nomination of ryan, hoping we were talking about big issues, big vision for the republican party and look what we're talking about. >> right. >> we're talking about this. >> there is an ill logic to the debate itself, if you sit there and ask yourself or ask people who you know anyone who is in favor of abortion. >> right. >> i know no one in favor of abortion. so the illlogic of the debate is, you know -- >> but the extremism. >> matters a lot how you frame the words and that question.

>> yeah. >> right. >> and mika, you brought up a good point yesterday, americans are -- at the same time they're getting more progressive on gay marriage, they're getting more conservative on abortion, for a lot of different reasons, and yet the republicans still blow the advantage. >> it's amazing. because there is certainly a huge sector of the population and that is growing potentially given the recent gallup polls that is pro life. and is pro life. >> but the -- >> in terms of the media paying attention, you know, at the point the battle over the language on forcible rape, was taking place, that didn't get a lot of attention. eventually was dropped out of the house, you know, the bill that passed. because it was seen as too extreme. >> right. >> i don't think if we went back to the -- to that issue actually unfolding in washington -- it got some coverage. we paid some attention to it. but it's only now in the midst

of this controversy that anyone is talking about it much. >> these candidates, romney and ryan, as you use the word -- you used, mark, look prehisseric on this while the current administration looks ahead of the curve when it comes to women. i don't think anyone at this table would disagree. it's really poor timing for the republican party. >> well, if you were talking about the nbc poll, you know, on this show and that shows what 10 points, the gender gap. >> the gender gap. >> i bet it gets a lot worse next week. >> that's before this -- >> that's before this happened. >> yeah. >> hold on a second. look at that. it's more than that. 54% to 39%. >> there you go. >> and growing. >> that may grow and you look at -- we have a new poll out today on the hispanic vote. >> yes. >> and the huge gap between republicans and democrats there. mark mckinnon you helped run a national campaign. you can't lose women by double

digits and hispanics by 30 points and be even close. >> you can't lose either one, much less both of them. >> yeah. >> all right. jill, thank you. congratulations. >> thank you, jill. >> the power. >> oh -- >> oozing. >> tremble before me. >> mark, stay with us. still ahead, boon pickens and actor and comedian richard belzer joins us on set. next guest takes us inside the world of shadow bosses and what he calls a chilling relationship between unions and our political leaders. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

which legislation to support and when to bend the demands of the unions and contract negotiations. the shadow boxes are there to tap politicians on the back when they support the interests of government employee unions and they're there there to tear them down if they go against those interests. very interesting. welcome to the show. >> thanks so much. thrilled to be here. >> the book is doing well. >> doing great. >> it's barns and nobles, it's ahead of. >> the book that barnicle reads 24/7. "shades of grey". >> exactly. >> you know people are getting bored when that happens. >> seriously. >> ask the question, but this is touching a nerve? >> yeah. >> it is. i mean -- >> a reason walker got re-elected in sort of, you know, the most pro union states in america. >> and increasingly popular apparently in wisconsin.

>> same thing with chris christie. >> look. i understand where you're coming from in this book or at least i think i do. the role of unions in this country cannot be discounted. sure, everybody's jumping on the teachers unions, everybody is jumping on state employee unions in wisconsin and other states. pensions are bankrupting several states. but -- and in deference and fairness to you i have not read the book but unions have a role in this country. worker safety, minimum wage, child labor laws, all the work of unions. >> isn't that what defines us as a country. >> i belonged to a union for 15 years. hopefully you give them their due in the course of this book? >> we do give them their due and you look at what the unions are today. this is a norma ray union -- this isn't the workers of blue star airlines. the bosses of the unions, shadow

bosses, i mean, they're gordon gekko today. these are the guys that are controlling the political cycle. >> union dues you're talking about? >> do you know what the union dues are? any idea? you're looking at just the teachers union alone, just due, the teachers union take in $2 billion a year and they themselves say they use less than 30%, they say around 20% for representation. where do you think the rest of the money goes? it goes to them and to controlling politicians. half of the members don't have a clue or 90% of them where their money goes. >> which -- what entity do you think gives more money to various campaigns throughout the country? unions or the chamber of commerce? >> not even close. not even close. >> big business? >> not even close? >> you're looking at just the teachers union we talked about in taking in about $2 billion a year. the top 12 organizations like the chamber, like national

restaurant association all these trade groups, they're about a half a billion a year in total deuce. not even in the same league. government unions, unions take in about $14 billion that we could find, that's more than the gross domestic products of a lot of countries. >> talk a little bit about the difference between government unions and other unions. >> i was going to say -- >> make that differentiation right now. >> on that side. >> thank you. that's really important. i mean, george the a fshgs lsfl said you can't have government unions, you can't negotiate with governments, it's impossible. and you can see how they changed their tune because they know that they can -- the unions know they can get a lot of money from government if they elect the right politicians. >> also though, we have to explain, we talk about the changing the changing economy here. >> yeah. >> it used to be private sector unions, who i think we all agree have an -- have had an

extraordinary critical role in this country, especially since the war, as manufacturing is left, they've moved down to 7%, now -- 7% of americans are in private sector unions. public sector unions even lower than 7%. what is it now? >> 5 and change. >> by the way, is bad news for our economy. it's bad news for the middle class. private sector unions dwindle and the public sector unions grow, they become the tail wagging the dog. >> you're so right. the -- to your question from before, if you make outrageous demands in the private sector, you put the company out of business. you make outrageous demands in the public sector and then the taxpayers have to shell out more. >> you're funding the people making doots he sigses. >> it's a cycle. >> what's basically happened is that the government employee unions have become the piggybank of the democratic party. you take away that funding, the

democratic party looks a lot different. >> mike, you would agree, would you not, that democrats mainly, but also republican governors, have struck deals with public unions. >> oh. >> and then given them outrageous pensions. i say outrageous, not outrageous compared to what ceos get or -- but they have made deals that they know state governments especially can't afford. >> it's a huge conflict. >> by the way, a strike again, not outrageous, that -- not outrageous pensions, not outrageous retirements, just deals that the governments can't afford. >> it's a huge conflict when on one side of the table you have elected representatives, state representatives, state senators, sitting across the table from, you know, i don't want to pick on any one specific union, fire, police, teachers unions and negotiating their pension benefits of things like that, it's a huge conflict.

>> yeah. >> and now we've reached the point in this country where economically many states and we see it every day in the papers, are teetering towards bankruptcy largely because of pension costs. >> what's the sliolution? >> you brought up wisconsin. and what happened there. immediately after workers were given the right to choose if they want to be in a union or not, half dropped out. immediately. >> why is that? >> why? because the benefits they're getting is not that great. the benefits are going to the union bosses. the shadow bosses in the book. the shadow bosses, make huge amounts of money, most of them make more than the president of the united states, private planes, i mean they are the true 1%. >> generalizing. give us specifics. >> nea, $400,000, $425,000 head of american federation of teachers, that's his salary, not including $847,000 i think

asfme, secretary general, one particular i think it was asfme president in a year and a half, $325,000 in private planes. i can go on and on. the numbers are astronomical. they're truly the 1%. but on top of that, the money they spend to buy these politicians, these politicians are not doing in the other areas other than labor in terms of their voting what the members really believe in. they're anti-gun, they're anti-family values and all the polls show that -- no, but all the poll -- >> what do you mean anti-gun and anti-family values? >> what do i mean way in? look at the national rifle association's rating, the top ten people on the -- top ten people that these unions support, on the -- in the house and in the senate, 7, 8 out of 10 score near zero. >> what's wrong with that? >> because the member -- >> because --

>> i'm not making a judgment on second amendment rights. what i'm making a judgment on is spending money contrary to the beliefs of their members. they are taking their members' money and spend dg. >> mike, by the way, back in '96 when i was running for re-election the first time when the afl-cio decided to spend over $100 million unseating republicans after we got electeded in '94 and i kept bashing the unions and bosses. the guy come and fix my phone, very polite, i thank him as he was leaving and he grabbed my arm and said shut up. what? he goes you need to shut up, congressman. we're all voting for you. stop talking about union bosses. shut up. the reason why was culturally they were disconnected from the union membership, more culturally connected. boston more culturally connected to conservative republicans or conservative democrats. >> no doubt about that. and no doubt that many members of unions who i know today, are

outraged and regard it as a ripoff, the union due system. because they don't know really, point out where their dues are going. >> in the long run. >> we know and it's not what they believe in. more important to that, mike, i agree with you, they're -- they're really forcing a lot of good people out of government. the teachers, couple teachers of the year in nevada, fired. teacher of the year in new jersey, fired. because of various seniority and tenure systems. the best and brightest are not able to stay. >> by the way, that's changing, though, is it not? we've seen over the past year or two, tenure in a lot of states k through 12 going out. isn't that changing a bit? >> recently. it's changing a bit. but we've gone from a classroom average of 18 to 1 in 1960 to 8 to 1 faculty and administrative help and our scores and our children rankings have gone

down. it's not pouring more money in. it's better teachers, better systems, far more countries -- lot of countries that spend far less than us that do better. >> the book is -- >> "shadow bosses". >> now out selling. >> raising a lot of questions. >> outselling barnicle's favorite book. >> still ahead an exclusive first look at the cover of "time" magazine. more "morning joe" in just a moment. thank you very much. >> thanks. [ gnome ] enjoying your holiday?

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welcome back to "morning joe." another beautiful dry day in the drought hit areas of the midwest, but all eyes are on florida. republican national convention starting in four days. what will be isaac, maybe a hurricane, in four or five days will be there at the exact time. show you what's happening with isaac currently. south of puerto rico and good news, the storm moved further south than expected so they're going to be spared a little bit. still looks like it's heading for haiti and cuba in the days ahead. the forecast path going to go over a lot of land over the next two to three days. don't expect it to become a big beast any time soon. the best chance of it becoming a hurricane off the coast of cuba near south florida and the keys and up towards the warm waters of the eastern gulf of mexico, including dangerously close to

tam tampa. looks like tampa will be affected starting monday and monday night into tuesday by strong winds and a lot of heavy rain. exactly how intense it will be at that point still five days away. we'll watch it for you closely, of course, and it does look like we will be getting a little wet there on our "morning joe" set just outside the convention center. you're watching "morning joe" coming up next, the new cover of "time" magazine with rick stengel. stay tuned.

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>> our republican convention walkup issue, the mind of mitt. >> i went down on tuesday to new orleans and interviewed governor romney or the presumptive nominee as he calls himself, i wish he would say i'm the nominee. >> yeah. >> and mike crowley and i talked to him down in new orleans and, in fact, our main story is about mitt's career at bain and i've been obsessed with this idea that he can't quite translate what he means by when he says i'm a businessman because he's not a conventional businessman like his father was, for example. he was a consultant. he was an investor. i actually would argue that better prepares him for the presidency than a conventional businessman who only knows one thing. >> right. >> you know, if being president means, you know, choosing the toppings on your pizza, then herman kaicain would be a good candidate. fact that mitt as he said in the interview, i know technology, i know retail, i know wholesale,

all of these businesses. in fact if he could articulate that would be a better calling card. >> the hedge hog versus the fox. >> really is. >> and most business people that make a billion dollars, maybe they know just one thing and they're the hedge hog and just stay at it and they multiply it over and over again and they become kroerdsly wealthy. >> -- extraordinarily wealthy. >> his business and how he would fix the economy? >> you know, that's a good question and i asked him that. i don't think he's ever made that leap of like -- i think we made progress in the sense he said these are the aptitudes that i have that other people don't have. how that translates into fixing the economy, he hasn't quite gotten there yet. >> you did get something interesting that maybe gives you a window into his world view when it comes to afghanistan. he said this, i do not expect the taliban as an organization or as a group of people are going to disappear. but i want to see the afghan

military of sufficient capacity and strength and know how to be able to defend the sovereignty of their nation and keep it from being overrun by the taliban. >> i think he's -- >> wait. who said that? was that brezhnev in '78? >> he's tacking back to the center now, in the sense that what he was saying a few months ago is saying, you know,, we've still got to defeat the taliban. he's not saying that anymore. he doesn't have a quarrel with obama's timetable, particularly, but he says the same thing as the president, when he says, i want the indigenous forces in afghanistan to be able to defeat the taliban. so i think he's walking it back a little bit. >> it sounds like we would have another prolonged, if he wins the election, we're going to be there, even longer. >> well, i don't know. i mean, it's one of these things, the article points out

that mitt is far more cautious than anybody ever realized. that one of the -- when he was at bain capital, he would look at thousands of deals, and maybe invest in two or three. he rejected most of everything. he was cautious. he wanted to make sure it would be profitable. he wanted to make sure it would be right and would work. i think he would look at all of these problems in the same way. and i don't know that he's ideological about afghanistan. >> very conservative, with a small "c." >> well, he is. he's conservative with a small "c" in the sense that his world view is pretty diverse. i mean, it's not just focused on one thing. >> rick, what's your biggest takeaway from the interview? what do you know about him now that you didn't know going in? >> he was very personable, he's warm, he's very upbeat and optimistic. he radiates that. i think he needs to show that more on the stump. he certainly, as we were talking before, mark, he needs to show that in the debates, he needs to show that side of him, and show

the fact that he has a lot of bandwidth. going back to the discussion of being a consultant, he can talk about energy, you know, he can talk about manufacturing, he can talk about oil supplies. i mean, he has experience in all of those -- >> mike, i see -- and this is, you know, democrats might call this wishful thinking on my part. it's not wishful thinking. it's just what i'm observing. this guy is getting more comfortable. he's getting more comfortable in the campaign trail. >> you can see it in the clip that we showed earlier today. >> you can see it in the clips. you can even see it in some of these -- >> he's going to give a good convention speech. it's pretty hard to give a bad one. you get a teleprompter -- >> rick stengel could be nominated for chairman of the insight department, because of his take, mentioned briefly on governor romney a few moments ago. mitt romney is not a salesman. and i think that may be some source of the discomfort that we've seen on the stump. he's not a salesman.

he's a nagragaiter of information. and he's not cautious so much as he is deliberate. that's just who he is. >> you know, he's not steve jobs. he's not a guy who's going to get in front of the audience and say, i'm going to bend the curve and i'm going to create a new reality, which steve jobs and others great ceos do. i would not like to be the guy -- and i'm just guessing from what you're saying here, i would hate to be the guy that would sit in one of his board rooms at bain capital and try bs'ing. he sounds like, give me the information, i'm going to look through it, and your words don't mean anything to him. i want the data, then we'll see where the wind blows. >> not a bad quality. >> not a bad quality. >> he's quantitative. he looks at the number. in a story about bain, he would look over and over, show me the p&l, show me this, show me that. he wanted to be sure. and insofar as what a president is does is to conform a

consensus, a consensus in the country, a consensus in the house and the senate. that's the kind of thing he was doing at bain. >> the new cover of "time" is the mind of mitt. rick stengel, thank you very much. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." [ "human" by the human league playing ] humans. we mean well, but we're imperfect creatures living in a beautifully imperfect world. it's amazing we've made it this far. maybe it's because when one of us messes up, someone else comes along to help out. that's the thing about humans. when things are at their worst, we're at our best. see how at libertymutual.com. liberty mutual insurance -- responsibility. what's your policy?

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all next week, join us for our special coverage of the republican national convention. we'll be live from our own "morning joe" elephant bar on channelside avenue in tampa. >> oh, yeah. >> mike, god. it's going to be fun. >> yes, it is. >> are you going to behave? >> yes. >> you know the rules. >> yes, i do. up next, what new polls from key battleground states tell us about the fight over medicare. stay with us. "morning joe" continues after a break.

good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. time to wake up, everyone, as you take a live look at new york city. welcome back to "morning joe". >> that's beautiful. >> isn't that pretty? >> it just speaks -- >> back with us on set, we have mike barnicle and harold ford -- >> our resident conservative. >> yes. >> absolutely. >> a new set of battleground polls show president obama leading mitt romney, especially when it comes to handling medicare. president obama narrowly leads mitt romney head to head in florida, ohio, and wisconsin. in florida and wisconsin, romney is within the margin of error. the race in florida is tightening. last month, obama was 51%, romney at 45%. in yesterday's nbc/"wall street journal" battleground poll, mitt

romney has expanded his support in key states by five on thes while president obama's lead has chunk from 50 to 49%. >> so look at that. harold, and again, i'm not spinning here, it's been a horrific week for the republicans. i just want all of our viewers to be aware that there is a race that they may not see in their homes if they're outside of the 12 or 12 swing states, because they're not getting killed with 30-second ads all the time. harold, when you're down by eight points in july, it's a panic. when you're within the margin of error, you're like, okay, we're in this race. it's ugly, but we're in the race. right? >> there's no doubt. i thought even if you look at the top-line polling from our nbc/"wall street journal" poll yesterday, there's cause for concerns in both campaigns, and it's got to be cause for concern in the obama campaign. largely, because you're going from 47 to 50. you can't get above that 50 in some of these key states. you and i both know, you're this close toon election. as the incumbent, you want to be

50 or higher. and be able to stay there. >> and i would rather be the president, because the president has been consistently ahead in just about every poll. >> there's no doubt about it. but in the nbc poll, you look at that approval/disapproval, and wrong direction/right direction, i find those numbers to be as indicative as where this thing will end. so if you're the white house, you've got to be a concerned a bit by these numbers and continue pushing. if you're mitt romney, as bad a week as they've had, you look at the cbo report that was talked about this morning across the networks, both campaigns have got to figure out how you seize on that. and if you're the white house, you might have to address some of this prior to the election. >> boy, the cbo numbers are just absolutely horrific. >> and we talked about that number right there yesterday. the fact that with a 32% right track number, the president still has a lead. it's astounding, if you look at it from this point of view. >> it really is. and less than one third of

americans think this country's going on the right track. and i will say this. after most americans think the president got what he wanted. >> we all talk about, oh, the republicans have stood in the way, they have in a lot of areas, but you ask a swing voter in ohio, has the president gotten what he wanted out of congress? >> yes, he's gotten -- he got the stimulus plan, he got his health care plan, he got all of these other plans, the auto bailout, and we've spent more money, the federal government spent more money than ever before. and again, i'm not doing an ad campaign for mitt romney here, i'm just -- when you see a number like that, then people that aren't as connected are, you know, are going to go into the voting booth like they did in t 1980. and maybe the president wins. if mitt romney could find his voice, though, the president would be in big trouble. >> we can talk about everything the president got that he wanted, all we want. but out in the country, that's kind of like background music.

what's out in the country. first of all, they're dealing with the akin stuff on the republican side. that's a blip right now. and it will stay to some extent throughout the campaign. but the constant in this election, the thing that's there every day is the economy. >> right. >> every day. and that is going to weigh on the president. >> that's right. the economy, and the country, if mitt romney figures out how to say this, you gave the president four years, he did his best. he passed the biggest spending bill in american history. there was the bank bailout, l there was the auto bailout, there was that, there was this. washington's not going to get america back to work. america's going to get america back -- don't you think, connected to jobs, that's romney's message, if he can deliver. >> it's got to be his message. it's his only shot, really. >> well, let's -- >> i was just going to say, i

think a lot of americans believe what i believe. and you know, you always, you conservatives say the government's, you know -- what was reagan's quote? the government isn't the solution, the government's the problem. that famous quote. i really believe, and i haven't gone into great detail and it isn't even really something you can debate, so i haven't brought it up much on this show, i really believe that right now, the government is the problem. i really believe that if small business owners, mid-sized business owners, and big business owners knew that they didn't have to worry about new taxes, new regulations, new this, new that, there wasn't the huge question mark over their heads over the next four years, this $2 trillion, $3 trillion sitting on the sidelines we've heard about all these years, i really do believe that would come flooding into the market and our economy would revive itself if washington would get

out of the way. i'm not saying that's right -- >> i know, because it hasn't worked? >> -- i'm not saying that's wrong, i'm saying -- >> that's how you feel. >> -- that's how i believe right now. i think -- and i don't always believe that. i'm not one of these people who say, cut taxes and the chicken weed will disappear from your yard. but harold, i've heard it from so many business owners. i'm not going to hire new people for my small business because i don't know what washington's going to do. ceos say the same thing. liberal ceos say the same thing. there's this huge fear from washington that i haven't seen in a while. >> you have the telecom industry and the broadband industry, which is invested over a $250,000 over the next several years in building up the next generation of broadband. if we knew that broadband wouldn't be regulated over the next few years, would that lead to a new investment in new jobs and new opportunity. we hear it over and over again. this fiscal cliff is a serious issue in the minds of a lot of ceos of all business kinds across the country, for the single issue you raise. there's a huge question mark

over what they can expect, what they can anticipate, and the new burdens that will be placed upon them and their businesses. if you and i ran a business, not only we'd be worried about that, but a publicly run business, there are a whole new set of laws and regulations that congress has passed. so i say to those in my party and others, understand, these question marks are real issues, and not knowing the uncertainty, as much as some democrats dismiss it, this is a real thing on the minds of people who employ people. >> and you know, the fiscal cliff, that's the responsibility, obviously, of both parties. >> that's why congress' approve is at 12%. >> the contempt for congress, the republicans in the house and the democrats in the senate that run it from business is really high as well. >> why don't we go there now. you mentioned the cbo report. we'll go to nb3 tower. the nonpartisan budget congressional office worked about the fiscal cliff, warning that the u.s. economy would

shrink by a half percent in 2013, unemployment would jump back above 9%, and it could cost americans 2 million jobs next year. its report also said that 2012 will be the fourth straight year with a deficit of more than $1 trillion. >> holy cow. look at that for a second. you know, willie, throughout the middle of the last decade, i was killing george w. bush every day on my show because of the unspeakable $400 billion deficit. killing him. now, the president here did a horrific situation, a terrible economy, but, again, who are you going to hold responsible for four years of a deficit over $1 trillion per year? you know, from george washington to ronald reagan, we didn't even accumulate $1 trillion of debt. over, you know, the first 204

years of our country's history. $1 trillion a year for the past four years. >> i wonder -- we had stephanie cutter on yesterday who we all respect a great deal. i wonder if the argument that we inherited this mess still plays with voters. that was the case she made yesterday, we inherited a terrible economy. we're digging out, we're not digging as fast as we'd like to, but we inherited this hole and we need more time to get out. i honestly wonder -- >> who's going to buy that? a $1 trillion deficit. again, we were all going crazy over a $400 billion deficit. ronald reagan has been blasted by liberals for 20 years for leaving the white house, what, a $300 billion deficit. $1 trillion a year. a $1 trillion deficit per year. and yes, first year, you can understand it. horrible economy. second year, you can understand it. digging out of the terrible. third year? four -- four years in a row?

>> that dog don't hunt. >> no, i don't even think democrats believe that. >> that's why, it could lead to -- everyone talks about an october surprise, in every presidential election. it could be a september surprise. could be the fed acting in the middle of september at their next meeting, come the 13th and 14th, i think. >> they've suggested, that's the front page of the newspapers this morning, they've made clear, they're ready to act if need be, if there's no continued movement in economic growth, which doesn't appear to be the case. >> yesterday mitt romney called the cbo report unacceptable, and used the opening to turn the conversation -- >> back to the economy. but before we talk about that, what's mitt romney's plan to balance the budget? >> well, i want to know. because we can sit here and hammer this administration for something they inherited. >> and we should, because it's four years later and it's $1 trillion. >> i think to an extent, you can, but to an extent, you really have to be very realistic, and especially tax cuts -- none of this stuff has

worked. it hasn't worked for a long time. >> dr. vague. >> he has got nothing -- >> you know what bothers me too. and we always talk -- and you had a great conversation yesterday about afghanistan. i love that conversation, but also, it's bugged us on the set for three years, four years is, nobody has come on and said we'll balance the budget in -- what, ten years? 50? give me a year. i think romney's out to, what, 2040. seriously? why do you even -- why do you even write up -- >> and what are you about? >> if you can't balance the budget in 30 years, you suck! you seriously suck! if it takes you 30 years to balance the budget. go home! >> inelegant, but -- >> it is inelegant, isn't it? it's also inelegant to steal money from our children. and that's what both sides have been doing for a decade. so -- >> but that may be the reason they can't move in the polls.

he's not laid out to mike's point -- not only has he been vague, but even when he puts out a position, he runs from it. you embrace paul ryan. i like paul, but paul has a budget. you can't run from it. you've got to defend it or say, here's what the alternative -- >> see, that's the thing. if you don't want people asking you about paul's budget every day, put out your own. and if you have a budget that doesn't balance until 2040 -- >> except criticism. >> you're going to get hammered. and by the way, right now, i would be talking about how barack obama needs to be voted out, if you care about the budget deficit. i can't say that right now, because mitt romney has given us nothing to believe that he's going to be any better on this one issue. now, i believe mitt romney would be better for the economy. i think the economy will grow. i think that will bring in more revenue. >> why? >> i explained it a couple of minutes ago. because i know businessmen and women across america will go, okay, he is going to be better for us than barack obama, who we don't think even understands how you create a job.

that is liberals, conservatives. we've all heard it. so that's why i think that the deficit -- i think the economy will grow with mitt romney more than barack obama, but as far as a long-range deficit plan, he's got nothing that a true small government conservative would like. >> here's mitt romney yesterday. >> when you look at all of the debt of the country, why, it's about the size of our entire economy. this puts us on a path to become like europe. what's happening over there is that people have spent more than they have taken in, year after year after year, borrowed more and more money, made promises they couldn't fulfill, and finally, something which had to end did end. and what happened there was that the government had to pull back with severe austerity programs and people in government in the private sectors lost their jobs. 25% unemployment rate. 25% in spain. think of that.

these are the kinds of circumstances that could arrive here if we stay on the path that we're on. >> it's good he's concerned. >> hey, willie, i agree with him 100%. i believe barack obama's vision of an economy does lead -- has european a flare to it. i believe that. so romney's got me. and he even said it well. so what are you going to do differently? how are you going to balance the budget before 2040? and there is no answer. he has given no answer. >> well, he's talk about a swollen safety net, a government safety net. when he's talking about europe. running up bills we can't pay. what's that mean here? it means working on medicare. it means working on social security. paul ryan did that. put out his budget. it doesn't balance until 2040, and got his head chopped off for even proposing the idea. so perhaps that's not why mitt romney's getting into the

specifics of what he wants to do on maedicare. >> so what are they doing? they're running 30-second ads for what? on president obama not for cutting medicare, but for being reckless on medicare. >> when we come back, billionaire energy investor, boone pickens joins us on set. and richard belzer will be here, to discuss his new book offering insight on what he calls the country's most controversial cover-up. >> will's dog is here. >> that was messy. >> you know what else is messy? have you ever seen his trailer? >> it's like cat lady. >> oh, my god. >> seriously! how do you put 14 cats in a trailer that small. >> i think it's 14 mommy cats with a lot of kittens. and like, no litter -- >> this guy's a freak. >> disturbing.

bill? >> yeah, very disturbing. you guys are going to get what you deserve, probably on tuesday down in florida, but that's another story. i don't wish harm on anyone in florida, but when you two go down there, we'll see. good morning, everyone. we are watching isaac, of course, and the concern eventually will be florida or mississippi, alabama, who knows, i haven't ruled out louisiana at this point. hurricane hunter aerircraft, wel be tracking them as they fly through the center of the storm and let us know the intensity. right now the storm a pretty weak storm. the forecast passing the hurricane center takes it over the land area of haiti and cuba, pretty much over the weekend. then monday, it should be near florida. of course, there's very warm water, exactly the state it's in by the time it gets there will depend on how strong it gets in florida. anywhere from a tropical storm to a category 2 hurricane is all possible. notice where tampa is on that map. tampa looks like no matter what at this point, you'll see some wet weather and windy weather come monday night and tuesday. the exact intensity will be determined in the days ahead.

as far as the commuter models, they're all in pretty excellent agreement that we'll watch this storm heading somewhere near florida and possibly up towards the north or northeast gulf as we go throughout the middle of next week. forecast across the country today, not too many issues out there. a nice day in many areas, just a few thunderstorms in the southeast and also up around minneapolis. even las vegas had a chance of thunderstorms yesterday. they got 2 inches of rain, one of the with wettest days in vegas history yesterday. we'll have more on isaac in the days ahead. looking at miami, wtvj, one of the areas of concern in the days ahead. you're watch "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. hmm, it says here that cheerios helps lower cholesterol as part of a heart healthy diet. that's true. ...but you still have to go to the gym.

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welcome back to "morning joe." willie, the guy's five years younger today than last time he was here. >> what's he do? >> what magic pixie dust does he sprinkle in the morning on his wheaties? does he not look younger? like five years younger. >> football. >> football season's starting up and you're an oklahoma guy. you're getting excited. you're excited. hey, here's boone pickens. hey, boone! so you look excited, by man. so tell me about mitt romney's energy plan and what is missing from it? >> well, they gave you a pre-release, and then you're going to have the release from mexico the some time this morning, and what i saw, unless

that's the real release, is beefed up considerably, or what i saw, they missed the mark. all they talk about is oil. oil, drill off the east coast, west coast, federal lands, everything -- >> drill, baby, drill? >> yeah. but our industry, in america, has done a fabulous job. i mean, we're number three in the world on oil production. saudi arabia and russia, united states. and here we are, our industry's has done a fabulous job. and they don't mention natural gas, in the whole release, it's all about oil. >> why? >> you tell me why. i talked to them last week, they don't pay any attention to me. but the natural gas, you're number one in the world. and if all you have to do is take the 8 million 18-wheelers out of 250 million vehicles, just take 8 million of them, and those go to natural gas, you'll

cut opec by 75%. we import 4.4 million barrels of oil a day from opec. >> right. >> and 3 million barrels a day, you can recover off the 18-wheelers. >> so why the blind spot? why do you think it is that we're focused on energy sources that are going to make us dependent on saudi arabia, opec, other countries. >> did you see last week's "new york times" front page? our imports from saudi arabia have gone up. have gone up. but if you look in the romney release, they also have in there quotes from the obama administration. they say, well, we need to use more renewables and cut and get more mileage out of a gallon of gas. well, all that's good, but you aren't going to replace foreign oils with renewables. so i don't even know -- listen. we'll see how all this unfolds, but --

>> crazy. >> it's heartbreaking to see resources in america not understood. >> you've been frustrated, though, boone, for years. you took the pickens plan to capitol hill. you were in every office of every congressman and every senator, and you were frustrated time and again. what's the argument against your plan? why aren't they even listening to it? >> well, nobody argues. i will say, i'll say, look, we've got resources in america that we can go to. we don't have to use opec oil, and we don't have to have people in the mideast. we don't have to get people killed over there, protecting oil. do you know how many barrels -- i'm going to answer the question. but do you know how many barrels a day come through the straits of hormuz? 17 million. you know how much of that comes to us? make a wild guess. >> 17 million? >> 2.2 million. and we're sitting over here with all of our navy equipment, people, and we get 2.2 million. we could wipe that out in nothing flat. we don't even have to take

anything out. >> so what is it? they don't believe you? they think you're crazy? >> probably both of those. both of those. >> and what's the third reason? they're addicted to oil! >> what? >> are they addicted to oil here? well, on capitol hill. why have you not been able to make more progress when everybody agrees with you? >> people agree with me, and i can tell you the trucks are going to natural gas. they're saving $2 a gallon. but you don't want to do, here's the weakness of the whole deal, supply is very, very good. united states. the industry's done a fabulous job. we have more natural gas than any other country in the world. we have plenty of oil, all of it being developed, increasing our oil production in the united states, we're the only country in the world that did it. nobody gets up and says, hey, these guys have done a pretty good job. >> how much cleaner is natural gas than oil? >> 30%. >> 30% cleaner?

so they'd basically cut emissions by a third if you go to natural gas, it's made in the united states, you're cutting our dependency to opec, you're cutting our dependency to some of the craziest players in the world. it's unbelievable. >> i want to take you to washington with me. >> they think i'm crazy. >> you catch on, very easily. but get this, though. the missing link is they do nothing about demand. now they're saying, well, we're going to export our natural gas to china. is that a good idea? let me tell you. the producers of the natural gas have a right to get into any market. don't ever say i said they're locked into the united states. but what we ought to do here is increase the demand. increase the demand for natural gas, which will lower the dependency on opec oil and keep the gas here. have a good market for the gas here, is what you'll need, instead -- today, get this, natural gas, united states, slightly under 3.

$15 in tokyo, $14 in the mideast, $9 in london. okay, here we are, we've got -- >> but if you are to be believed -- >> you think i'm doing a lousy job, don't you? >> no, no. and i do believe you. i do believe you. what are the obstacles to just -- it's such common sense to go in this direction. what are the governmental or political obstacles to getting this done? >> lack of leadership, start there. but, second, people think i want to substitute for this. i don't. i don't care whether you have any legislation. hell with that. i tried that. i spent over $100 million trying to get something done on that deal. i've gotten -- i'm serious. you can audit my books, but i have tried to get an energy plan for america. now, i just say, okay, let the market dictate. that's fine with me. i don't have any problem with it. but help get demand up for this wonderful resource in america. don't send it to the chinese.

i mean, we've got to be nuts pip mean, we're going to go down in history. i'm not going to, because i'm going to say enough. they're going to quote me in there, so when this is over, they may call you guys nuts because you didn't do it, but they're not going to call me nuts, because i said you ought to do it. >> boone was right. >> damn right i was right. i know what i'm talking about. >> damn right i was right. >> they asked me, on the show, said, did you -- have you talked to the people, the romney people? hell yes i've talked to the people, ten times. they don't listen to me. they don't have any interest in what i have to say. >> do you see a role, boone, in your big plan for renewables, though? i know you think the small slice of the pie, where does that fit into the big -- >> well, let's go with a breakdown on power, okay? 50% goes to coal, 40% to natural gas, 20 to nuke. now you've got 94% used up. and the renewables are 2%, a little less. will it work? of course it will work.

you're going to have to subsidize it to make it happen, is what -- now. if natural gas, instead of $3, was $6, now you can do a wind deal. wind will work, because it's priced off the margin. so natural gas has to be $6 to be able to get wind to work. that's where you are. renewables, sure, you need to deal with all of that. everything america is what you need to do. everything america. get the hell off the opec oil, is what you need to do. >> boy, that is a -- that's a strong message, isn't it? >> well, just the -- >> a candidate talk about that -- yeah. >> we have all that oil coming out of the straits of hormuz and we have billions we're plowing into that region every single day because of oil. >> oil, that other people are going to get. >> that's right! can you imagine. i said to the pentagon the other day, i said, you guys are protecting that and you're only getting 2 million barrels out of 17, 15% of it. i said, for other -- i said, can they pay for part of it?

and they said, well, we could send them a bill. they won't pay. well, get out of there! and let them see how they manage. >> and we talked about this since september 12th, 2001. we've got to stop being independent on foreign oil. it's hurting our national security and we haven't changed our relationship with the middle east and oil since then. >> no. and let me tell you, they drive the price for the oil. and somebody tells me in washington the other day, well the saudis can produce up to $5 a barrel. let me tell you, no, no, no. they tell you -- they told us two week ago, they have to have $94 a barrel to meet their social commitments. what that means for the royal family to stay in power. i mean, they come in here and get $50 for the oil, they're gone. they've got a payoff. they've got over 50% unemployment in that country. so you're -- you know, it's very clear. and the iranians said the other day, they have to have $123 a barrel to meet their budget.

so that's what you're up against, so get on your own resources is the thing to do. >> boone pickens, rich, but ineffective. >> what?! >> he can't even sew common sense. >> it's common sense! >> but i'll tell you, when the story is told about the dumb clucks, i'm not going to be one of them. >> and the quote, "damn right, i was right." and remember that. so be right about college football as we go to break. how's oklahoma state -- >> i love it! they got us in there at 19. that's a good spot for us. >> and they love this freshman quarterback kid they've got in there. >> yep. well, no one's seen him throw the ball yet. >> in practice. >> but walking across the room, he looks just like brandon weeden. >> good enough. >> same height, 6:'5", 230 pounds. >> boone pickens, great to see you. thanks for coming in. >> when we come back, richard belzer is back, and yes, the dog

is too. we'll talk about his new book on cover-ups and conspiracies with his co-author, bebe. you expect something $40in return. billionaire oil tycoons charles and david koch and their special- interest friends are spending $400 million to buy this year's elections and advance their agenda. what's their payback? politicians who will pass laws that benefit special interests, but hurt the middle class; more tax cuts for the rich, eliminate the minimum wage,

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dog worshipper, not

whisperer. >> that dog just threw up on mika! >> bebe scl. >> ladies and gentlemen, live television. >> to a commercial! >> go to a commercial! this is live, isn't it? >> this isn't the first time it's happened to mika on set. >> it's only on the chair. >> it's all right. >> it's on the chair. >> do not shoot. do not shoot that. >> it's usually willie or myself that throw up on mika after a long night. >> cue the music. >> willie! wow, talk about a blast of the past. >> bebe is back. >> he's back and he's looking for mika. >> mika was afraid -- >> no, she wasn't. >> we called her and told her that you brought reinforcements. mika will be here in a second. >> our good friend, richard belzer, comedian, actor, "law & order: svu." he's now the co-author of the book "dead wrong: straight facts on the world's most controversial cover-ups." that clip was from four years

ago. bebe joins us again. >> mika! >> she wasn't going to come on. >> are you serious? >> well, i've been scrubbing up. getting my scrubs on. >> he didn't eat sthrnthis morn honey. that is for your dress. >> i'll try this again. >> richard, was it nerves on bebe's part. >> i think it was the political discussion. >> it was. >> oh, this isn't going to get much better, than. >> no, he likes -- >> come on, sweetie. >> as long as you don't throw up on me. >> don't vomit. >> he won't. he won't. >> so you wail have a book called "dead wrong, straight facts on the world's most controversial cover-ups," and this is not a conspiracy book, it's a history book. >> you'll see history on the inner flap. and i'm very proud of that. i've written books before, i've written novels and nonfiction books, but they've always been in the entertainment section or comedy section. this is a serious book, we've been working on it for years.

and my partner, david wayne, is a microanalyst of how the media covers these events. so he's been researching -- >> let's get specific. jfk, i take it, you probably don't agree with the warrant commission. >> no one does. 90% of the people in the united states think that president kennedy was murdered by a conspiracy. the other 10% work for the government or the media. >> okay. willie? >> so we're a part of the conspiracy? >> you are. >> i had no idea. >> well, you're in the 10%. that's pretty lofty. >> so what is the -- so what new information do you bring to wear about the jfk assassination? >> what new information? well, constantly, as you know, millions of pages get released in like '99, there was 1 million pages, and as recentlies a 2010 and 2011, but the reality is that the forensic, the scientific evidence, we go -- we went back and interviewed fbi agents, we interviewed police, we interviewed forensic scientists. we're not fooling around. and as an fbi agent said to us, i have no theories, just facts.

and it's clear that, i mean, i don't know who the other shooters were, but oswald didn't fire a shot. he was on the first floor, having lunch, went to the second floor, and was seen by many witnesses. so it's a question of, he was physically incapable of doing it. who did do it? that's another book. >> so you don't have a new conclusion about who the -- >> well, i have theories, but this is a history book. so it's clear that witnesses were not called before the warrant commission. 128 ran up the knoll. and a lot of very relevant information never came before the warrant commission. so in a way, they were protected from information, and their decision was decided upon before they even met. >> what about bobby? bobby, 1968, you also say multiple gunshots. >> we know for a fact, this is what's great about my book. i'm not making this up, i'm the messenger. there were 14 bullets in that pantry taken out by the police and by the fbi.

sirhan's gun hat eight bullets. the president was killed -- and senator robert kennedy had powder burns on his hair. so sirhan, as you know, was grabbed by rosie grier and george puntan, he fired off these shots and the senator was shot here. it was physically impossible for sirhan to do that. >> so, mike, people have believed certainly the jfk case -- >> but most people don't anymore. >> but through the years, it just doesn't make sense. why is that? >> what doesn't make sense? >> i'm asking mike, through the years -- >> yeah. this is supporting documentation. >> no, no. >> i'm asking the basis of this book is, you know, 40 years of disbelief from skeptical americans. who have the right to be skeptical about what the government tells them. >> that's what it is. >> in times of war, especially. and these were both sort of -- >> if the government lied to us about vietnam, why wouldn't they have lied to us about the assassination of --

>> vietnam, iran contra -- >> so it's a buildup of cynicism over the years. i'm not saying i'd buy into it. the one thing that i'm just perusing this chapter now, is on martin luther king. there is no way that james earl grey acted alone. >> no he said he was innocent. the only reason he pleaded guilty was to avoid execution, and dr. king's family agreed that he was innocent. and i've been down there and the room where james earl ray allegedly fired the shot from, the window, there's a bathtub next to that window. so he would have had to straddle a bathtub and fire a shot from a weapon that didn't match the bullet that killed the doctor. dr. king. >> and not only that, how does someone like james earl ray get to toronto, and england -- just stop. >> he had money, $30,000, he had plane tickets. he was clearly set up. that famous picture of everyone pointing up when dr. king -- that's where the shot came from, and earl ray was like here.

this is actually a fascinating fact. in 1999, a jury, a civil jury in tennessee found that the government was involved in dr. king's murder. now, that's a jury in tennessee. that's not -- check please! that's not me or any -- >> i don't even know what that means? >> it means the show is over if things start falling. >> and marilyn monroe. >> marilyn monroe was murdered. there's no question. a lot of people -- well, they said she committed suicide, they said she died on august 5th. she really died on august 4th. i believe plotters who did murder her wanted to embarrass the kennedys, because the kennedys, there's good evidence they may have been having relations with marilyn, and bobby kennedy was in fact at her house that day, but he did leave way before the murder, and the kennedys were not implicated in the murder. my theory -- the facts are she was murdered. the first police officer on the scene said, this is a staged

suicide. her body was ram rod straight, the sheets were clean. if you take a bunch of drugs, you die before they're all digested. there's nothing in her stomach, no crystals,ing in. her body was bruised, there were no needle marks. she was given, pardon the education presentation, an enema, that's what killed her. and she was on the phone with a friend. she said, "i think i hear something," never came back to the phone. a window in her room was broken from the inside. as i said, her body was cleaned up, she was ramrod straight. anyone who commits suicide by this method goes into a fetal position, vomits, it's not pleasant. so they cleaned her up, and the plotters didn't think they'd wait six hours to call police. it's so funny, because they called the studio pr people first, they didn't call the police. then they called her psychiatrist, then another doctor. so there were like five people there, you know, cleaning up her notes and stuff. the cover-up involved the kennedys, but it also involved the plotters. >> and the thing is, we don't know who the plotters were.

>> no. >> and the fact is that marilyn monroe was becoming a real problem -- >> not, really, that's an kpa s exaggeration. >> no, it's not. i've read history books as well, and this is from the history section. it's just the truth. it took a long time -- and bobby kennedy's my hero, but it took a long time for people even to admit in the press that bobby kennedy was there that day. >> no, you're right. >> don't tell me, there's mess all over the place. just like mary meyer. >> thank you for saying that. >> mary meyer was murdered in georgetown, and she was murdered after jfk was assassinated. we hear it time and again, the only woman that jfk ever loved, she was murdered. >> she was. she was shot at a downward angle and they arrested a guy who was shorter than her. he would have had to get on a ladder -- >> they took him to the end of town and said, get out of town and never come back again. is that something you do to

someone who murders someone that well connected. she was murdered. >> the book is -- >> i'm just saying, there was a big mess. and i've got to say, mike, i love the kennedys, but the kennedys are around a lot of this stuff. >> and you know what's interesting about john f kennedy, people had to cover it who weren't involved in the murder out of institutional embarrassment. which is very interesting, when a crime happens, who covers it up, is not necessarily the culprit. >> by the way, best behaved is bebe. >> me be is not the culprit nod. >> he knew he was going to see you. >> straight facts on the country's most controversial cover-up. ♪

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that's a cute dog. here we go. jobless claims coming in a little bit higher than expected, not the news we wanted, not terrible. a couple thousand more than the expectations, but kind of holding steady. and by the way, i know you guys -- listen, you guys are probably multibillionaires with the show the way it is, but if you won an island, all right, greece may have one for you. the french paper reporting that the greek prime minister says he is open to selling uninhabited greek islands. that's how tough things have gotten in greece with their economy. so if you guys want an island, "morning joe" could have its own island. >> bebe, do you want your own island? >> can i say one thing -- >> bebe can doo-doo where he wants and nobody cares. >> richard, what about europe? >> i live in france part of the year, the other, in april or june, i broke a tooth, went to the dentist, i had a root canal, a temporary cap, shots and

x-rays, 132 euros. in america, it would have been $3,600. and it was great health care. >> none of us are seeing we wouldn't like to live in france. thank you so much, brian sullivan. more "morning joe" when we come back.

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the best ingredient is love. right there! >> welcome back to "morning joe." willie with, what did you learn today? >> i learned that all of us together will be flies right into a hurricane. >> exactly. >> what did you learn, mike? >> that i want to sit next to and have things thrown for me during a program by bebe rather thy