then america will hear from the woman who has been called his other running mate. >> the obama campaign is out with a new ad this afternoon calling mitt romney wrong for women. will the ladies of the gop stand by their party? >> all that plus why lance armstrong broke my heart. it's a busy friday in this cycle. we start with developing news in the heart of midtown manhattan. two people are dead in a rush hour shooting outside the iconic empire state building. police say there is no link to terrorism but they say it was the act of a 58-year-old disgruntled former employee who was fired a year ago but returned to his former office on 33rd street where he reportedly shot and killed a former co-worker outside the building where he used to work. he then started walking from the scene but as police closed in he opened fire on them. the officers returned fire, killing the suspect. nine civilians on the street

were hit in the cross fire but all are expected to survive. an investigation is exploring whether they were shot by the suspect or by the nypd. listen and as witnesses describe the scene. >> heard a gunshot, turned around, seen a guy running and shooting and the cops took him out right there. >> i heard five or six shots. i saw people running. then i heard somebody yell saying he's shooting. he's got a gun. >> tell me what you heard. >> pop, pop. i started to run to my office. >> new york city mayor michael bloomberg says the suspect was laid off from a clothing manufacturer near the empire state building last year. >> a little after 9:00 a.m. a man who had been fired from his job about a year or so ago began shooting near the empire state building but out on the street. he killed one person and at least nine other people were shot. this is a terrible tragedy and there is no doubt that the situation would have been even more tragic but for some extraordinary acts of heroism.

>> let's bring in nbc's ron allen who is on the scene with the latest. what have you learned and what do you know from the last hour? >> well, fifth avenue is opening up to traffic. that's one thing that's happened. things are getting back to, quote-unquote, normal down here. they've been cleaning up the sidewalk across the street behind me in front of the empire state building, cleaning off the entrance of the building as well preparing to reopen it to tourists. perhaps at some point later today. we're unclear about that. at this point police are no doubt trying to find out everything they can about this 58-year-old disgruntled employee jeffrey johnson questioning friends, relatives, neighbors, co-workers trying to understand what set him off today. as we know, he was fired or laid off from his job a year ago but for some reason today he decided to carry out this act. i can also if you pan the camera up fifth avenue you can get a sense of how busy it is during a typical summer day. there were thousands upon thousands of people in the vicinity. you had a gunman running around with a loaded gun firing it. police say that the police fired

at least 14 shots. the gunman's gun had the capacity to fire eight rounds. so that's why there is every probability that the innocent passersby were perhaps hit by police bullets. the police emphasized that the confrontation happened within five feet. the cops were that close to the gunman when they opened fire minimizing the danger but the gunman's weapon was clearly visible the police say and the police had no choice but to return fire. there is some question i should say as to whether the gunman fired at the police or not but the police say his gun was clearly visible so they had every reason to fire police say. one of many questions for the investigation but the big question is what set this guy off now after being fired a year ago? >> thanks for that, ron. you make it sound like it could have been a lot worse. let's bring in psychologist michelle callahan who can talk about perhaps why some of this happened and perhaps might it be the work place antecedent, maybe boss bullying that led to this? >> it is very likely that these

interactions he's been having with his co-worker are what led to this. it seems like there's been a build over the past year and today was the day he felt he had no choice but to make himself heard by using violence. >> michelle, if you could dig into that a little bit further, is this likely someone who had a relatively stable mentality and then was pushed over the edge by something in the work place or was this someone sort of fragile mentally to start with and then the work place issues built up and led to this incident? >> it's probably more likely that he had some issues already in the work place and stuff built on that. you're usually looking at someone who may have a history of violence, may have a history of emotional issues. could have been dealing with depression. many times when an employee is the one who is being violent it's because they feel wrong. they feel that something about their career, they have been passed over. in his case he was laid off. he was let go. they feel like they need to be heard. and so they often use violence as a way to express themselves and to finally get the voice when they feel like they're being ignored.

>> you know, michelle, this played out not just in new york city but in a particularly busy part of new york city, one filled with tourists. we talk about how it's at rush hour. obviously this played out in front of a large number of people. i was reading an interview in one of the news accounts where one of the witnesses who describe this started to describe the scene for the reporter then had to walk away to go to throw up. i just wonder what the -- what kind of impact you're talking about, psychological short-term, long-term impact. all of the people who watch this today, what will it have on them? >> it makes a lot of people feel really concerned and people need to feel safe both in the streets and at work. it's your employer's job to make sure you're safe at work so every business should have some kind of work place violence policy that clearly states what work place violence is. because it's not just physical violence. it also includes threats, intimidation, verbal, you know, assaults, and swearing at someone. those things should be clearly delineated and then there should be clear consequences for those blafrs. the companies should be making sure people know if you engage

in any kind of bullying whether it's verbal or physical at work, you will be punished and that people can feel safe knowing that if this happens they will not be -- there will be no back lash for telling and in fact they will be protected by their employer. >> dr. callahan of course we know that being fired is always a traumatic incident in somebody's life. what is perhaps the best way to fire somebody so that it doesn't expand into a much bigger situation like this? >> you have to really talk to people. a lot of corporations, the policy is to get people out of the door very quickly. they don't want you calling clients. they don't want you getting the rest of your co-workers upset. but at the same time, that can create a very contention environment where the person you're letting go feels blind sided. they feel pushed out. they feel disrespected. and that's what can start this slow build toward something more difficult. so i think it's understandable that you want to get that person perhaps off the floor where they normally work. you've got to go in and have a nice, long talk with them and make sure they feel treated

humanely because that is part of what -- it's that wrongdoing that makes people feel they need justice and they need to take things and escalate them to the next level. >> i just want to be really clear about this. it sounds like we're kind of making a connection here. and putting some blame on this guy's boss. there's no excuse, right, for this guy's behavior, and he could have followed all of your steps and fired or laid off this guy in the most appropriate, most humane way, and still some people are just going to react irrationally, violently, criminally. >> absolutely. i'm in no way trying to imply that it's his boss's fault. i'm just trying to explain sort of what could be done in the work place to help try to prevent this. but there's clearly something going on in him that would lead him to come to this place. like i said, a lot of times there is an irrationality, something going on mentally and psychologically that may make you feel like a victim. you feel that you're being wronged when in fact your

perspective and perception of what's really happening to you could be all slanted. it could be completely out of proportion. but if you don't have other people to bounce things off of because a lot of times these individuals are loners, not talking to someone else, when you don't have the other person to give you a healthier perspective your own unhealthy, irrational thoughts, angry thoughts, depressed thoughts, can lead you to believe these people are against me and therefore i need to do something active against them. >> dr. callahan, thanks so much for that. >> thank you. >> up next the politics of urban violence. former philadelphia mayor and pennsylvania governor ed rendell joins us as the cycle rolls on for friday, august 24th. [ kimi ] atti and i had always called oregon home.

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we have multiple people shot in front of the empire state building. >> we have two people shot. four people shot. ems on scene. >> chilling audio recordings from nypd radio transmission this morning after reports of shots fired outside manhattan's empire state building. police were able to respond within minutes thanks to nearby construction workers who saw the shooting, followed the suspect, and alerted two uniformed counterterrorism officers near the building. i want to bring in former philadelphia mayor ed rendell. welcome, governor. how do big cities respond to reports of shots fired like this? take us back to being mayor of philadelphia and how is all of this coordinated on local, state, federal response? >> well, the first response of course is the police. and as soon as someone calls 911 like that construction worker did, or he actually didn't call 911 but -- >> right. >> a citizen called 911. that would alert the local

police. the local police would have the first and primary responsibility for trying to apprehend and to investigate this. because it involved a firearm, the federal authorities usually the department of i call it -- >> tobacco and firearms. >> right. they would be brought in to look at the gun and trace how it was obtained, etcetera. now, i think here the gun was obtained legally. almost 21 years ago. >> right. in florida. >> he didn't have a permit to carry in new york but a permit to carry doesn't do much good once the gun has been used. but that's the way the response would be. and we traced these crime guns and again this fellow was not your typical gun criminal. your typical gun criminal is someone with a prior record who can't get a gun, who has to get a gun through an illegal source or through a gun show. the gun show loop hole. or has to get it by buying it on the street from a straw

purchaser, a multiple purchaser. and then the police and the department of tobacco and firearms would trace that gun back to its original buyer. they'd investigate how the buyer got the gun to the person who used it. the buyer would say, oh, it was stolen or i lost it and that's the end of it. >> right, but governor, the fact that he didn't have a permit to carry is i think important. i mean, he engaged in a criminal act by bringing that gun into new york city and the fact is stricter gun laws wouldn't necessarily have stopped him. guns are already illegal in new york city. >> no, there is no question. but the key is to stop and in this case since he bought it legally it's impossible to have stopped him. the key is two things. one to stop guns from getting into people's hands who have no legal right to buy them or own them. >> right. >> then two, to limit the carnage the gun can do. now it's my understanding here that he only fired the eight bullets that were in his gun.

but in many cases, in aurora we had a fellow who had a magazine that could fire a hundred, a clip that could discharge a hundred shots without reloading. he had an automatic rifle, semiautomatic rifle. those things used to be illegal in the united states, both the mobile -- >> right. clearly this incident was very different from what happened in aurora. >> very different. >> tell me what went right today and what went wrong from the law enforcement and municipal side? >> well, what went right is the citizen. the construction worker deserves high praise from all of us. at some risk to himself. he didn't know if that guy would have turned around and wheeled on in. he followed him. he found the nearest law enforcement official and alerted them to the fact that -- what had happened. it's too early to criticize the response of the police who fired. did they fire in a way that endangered civilians? we don't know the facts well enough to comment on that. and it's a difficult call for

the police. do you let someone who has just committed that level of violence escape or do you try to bring him down in a way that doesn't endanger other civilians in a crowded street? it's very difficult. the investigation has to reveal that. so potentially things could have gone wrong and could have been prevented but we'll just have to see. >> i want to follow up on that, governor. you're mayor of a big city for 15 years or so. i wonder if you encountered a situation like this where the police were in an area, a crowded area, maybe a tourist area, shots were fired and there were innocent bystanders and there was a question were some or all of the bullets coming from the police? how do you handle it as a player? >> i think you do what mayor bloomberg did today. you urge restraint and patience. there has to be a comprehensive investigation. the police have to reconstruct the scene as much as humanly possible to determine whether that officer, the officers acted properly. now, of course, your instinct as an officer, you know you've got a killer who's got a gun and

potentially could kill again and your instinct is to stop him to bring him down. but there are rules and regulations and requirements that the police department has in operation about when in a crowded situation like that you can and should discharge your gun. could they have followed him a little further and gotten him out of the crowd into an alley? who knows? we have to wait and not make any prejudgments. look, a job of a police officer is brutally difficult because you have to make snap decisions on the street. and it's easy for us to recreate and second guess and say i would have done this or would have done that. >> right. >> but we've got to wait and not make a prejudgment here. >> governor, i want a little bit more granular about what a big city mayor does when the phone rings or somebody rushes in and says, downtown, lots of people. a shooting has happened. what do you do in the first minute or two after you've been given that information as the mayor? >> well, i think you pray that

the carnage is least as possible and then you get yourself like mayor bloomberg did to the scene to try to help calm the situation, to try to comfort if a family member there is to try to comfort the family members. it's very difficult. there is very little you can do in immediate response. that's why you have a police commissioner and basically need to stay out of the way of the police commissioner too. but the mayor has a role as mayor bloomberg did to calm people and say let's not make any snap judgments. let's wait and see what happens. so i think mayor bloomberg did just the right thing today. >> governor, the human cost here is apparent and horrific. in terms of the, what it actually will cost the city, what does a tragedy like this run in a city's budget and is that planned for in advance or is it an extra line item that has to be added on? >> it's never planned for in advance. let's take the worst case

scenario and say that the policeman acted improperly. again, i want to stress there is no evidence of that right now. >> sure. >> people who were injured are -- could sue the city. the city could have to pay a judgment for that. there's usually some contingency fund for that but it almost always goes over. it can be difficult. but the price in terms of dollars is not nearly as important as the price in terms of what happens to the feel and the perception of the city. thanks to mayor guiliani and mayor bloomberg, new york's become a very safe big city. but a shooting like this on the streets in front of one of the premier buildings in new york creates an atmosphere that could at least in the short run depress tourism. and of course so much of new york's economy is based on tourism. >> right. >> so you really -- you know, so many thoughts go through your head when you're mayor and something like this happens. you want to make sure people know it's an aberration, that it wasn't a normal street crime. it wasn't a robbery.

it was over a firing on the job. you try to create as best a spin as you can from it. but it's extraordinarily difficult. and i know that this wasn't the case here. it's not aurora. it's not tucson. it's not virginia tech. but lord knows we have to have a real discussion about guns in this country and i don't know if you noticed the virginia tech survivors and family victims join the tucson family of victims calling on both governor romney and president obama to present to the people a plan for how we'll start curbing gun violence in this country. >> all right. >> ed rendell, stay with us. up next it wouldn't be a political convention without a little drama. isaac threatening to crash the gop's party. the weather, joe biden, and the negative ads waiting in the wings. more with ed rendell straight ahead.

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tropical storm isaac is approaching hurricane strength as 50,000 rnc delegates and visitors not to mention our own s.e. cupp start heading to florida for the republican national convention. one forecast model predicts a direct hit on tampa. the rest show the storm veers far west as new orleans. as we all expected rnc organizers are going ahead with monday's kick off but they do have emergency plans ready. even an indirect hit could complicate security. the national guard is ready to step up in case of any extra police officer expected to assist tampa police are kept at home for the storm. weather channel hurricane expert bryan norcross made a name for himself 20 years ago when he guided south florida through hurricane andrew. what can we expect from isaac? >> all right, steve. a complicated issue for those

folks trying to plan in tampa. and first we've got haiti in the way here and it does not look at all good for the people that are trying to get past that earthquake two years ago. all right. here's where we are. 60-mile-per-hour tropical storm. and it does not actually look like the -- it looks like the strengthening has actually stopped and it's hanging in there at 60 miles an hour and is now heading kind of to the northwest right toward haiti. here you see the satellite and you see the colors are kind of going away, an indication of it going through again a cycle. there is the center. it's way up there. but notice the circulation is huge with this thing and it's heading right in the direction of haiti and this very bad weather right here is going to impact them later on today, tonight, and into tomorrow. where is it going from here? tomorrow the vicinity of cuba and then south florida. so late tomorrow the weather deteriorates in the keys and extreme south florida with the worst in the keys compared to

miami but still very gusty weather in miami. then to tampa. so monday here comes the storm. l let's say the center is there. could be anywhere in the red area. circulation is like this and the bad weather is on the northeast side. so monday is the day with the worst weather likely tornado watches and other extreme weather in tampa. and then on tuesday, the center goes by but that's the day of the threat of tampa bay being pushed up toward where those delegates are and goofing up the transportation and other problems. so monday, tuesday right for the beginning of the convention is when it's going to converge and the question is how bad will it be? how strong will the winds be? how high will the water rise? there are some very intense calculations going on at the hurricane center and talking with the republicans. you can bet about what to do about all of this. it is just too close to call at this point. >> all right. we will keep close tabs on that. hurricane expert bryan norcross thanks for the insight. while tampa prepares for the

storm the republican party is prepping for the convention's big speeches. let's bring back former pennsylvania governor ed rendell. governor, i wanted to sort of look ahead to the sort of political bottom line for the next week for the republicans and look at the best and worst case scenario for them using, you know, two past examples. i'll start with the best case scenario for republicans and it's basically that what happened to bill clinton in 1992 happens to mitt romney in 2012. and the basic idea here is that bill clinton heading into his party's convention in '92 had ridiculously high personal unfavorable kind of low personal favorable scores. he was the last one to sort of have the numbers that mitt romney has now heading into his convention in the 1992 democratic convention where he met the man from hope, changed his image, never trailed in the polls after that. you think there is any chance the republicans could pull it off this time? >> sure. it'll take actually three good speeches. of course governor romney's is the most important. don't under estimate chris christie setting the tone and it's a tough job for chris

christie because he can't be too vicious. he has to remember people like president obama. even people who are contemplating not voting for him. they like him as a person. second speech is paul ryan. paul ryan has received a battering this week. the akin matter just really selling paul ryan as a substantial national figure. but he has a chance to go in and turn it around a little bit because he is a good messenger, not a very threatening guy personally. he is sort of like the guy next door or maybe the guy you want your daughter to marry. he has a chance to make a good speech and rehabilitate the battering he's been taking. then of course governor romney, the whole ball of wax for him to connect with the american people. >> all right. let me give you the worst case scenario. i won't say anything. i just want to play this clip. this is the nightmare for republicans. >> there is a religious war going on in this country. it is a cultural war as critical to the kind of nation we shall be as the cold war itself but this war is for the soul of america. >> governor, here's what i'm

thinking. we've got this todd akin situation. yesterday mike huckabee came out and went, rallied hard behind todd akin. blasted the republican party leadership for trying to get him out of the race and mike huckabee just so happens to be speaking on the first night of the republican convention. you're sitting there as a democrat. are you thinking you're going to get the culture war speech part two at this convention? >> no i don't. mike huckabee is a good republican. he said what he wanted to say. he got it off his chest there. i think he'll do well at the convention because he is not a party wrecker or destroyer. he's a builder. i think the danger is a floor fight. not started by mike huckabee but started by some of the very extreme right wing, so-called family values part of the republican party. if they want to have a floor fight on certain planks they can and let me tell you i think the most damaging part of all of this is after the akin mess the republican platform committee

essentially adopts the akin/ryan proposal on no exceptions for rape or incest and no exceptions for abortion for rape or incest. that's a disaster. if someone brings it up on the floor it could be all out war. and it could be a war that could wipe away anything else good that happens. same thing might happen if there is a floor fight on immigration. i don't suspect immigration will -- has that type of juice but this abortion stuff could explode. >> you're right. the party has been kidnapped by akin this week, in the last week. we're only talking about abortion instead of the economy. worst possible prelude for the rnc imaginable. so give us a couple more things that the rnc, the republicans must avoid at the rnc. >> well, the second worst thing, maybe even the first worst thing, is if governor romney fails to connect. if he makes a speech that's vague, doesn't have enough detail, doesn't have enough

substance, and mostly if he doesn't connect personally. well, what mitt romney has to do and what bill clinton, you are absolutely correct, did in '92 is he has to essentially bare his soul to the american people. tell them what motivates him. not to be afraid of talking about his relationship with his church. i think most americans would appreciate that. he's got to literally bare his soul. i don't know if mitt has that in him. i don't know if that's something he can do because i'm not sure that's something he does even privately. bill clinton, it was easy for him to do. you know, he did that all the time. >> yes he did. >> i'm serious. >> he does. >> still does. and that's why he is the greatest speaker in, i think even better than president reagan. but look. it's going to be tough for governor romney to do. and he's also got to tread the line of giving some substance to his plans without talking about them in such specificity that he is going to raise one red flag

after another. like the one thing he doesn't want to do is tell us how his budget plan is going to balance by the deductions and the loopholes he is going to close because a lot of those are going to be very unpopular particularly with the middle class. so it's a fine line for him to walk. it's a very difficult task. but if i have to bet, i'd bet he comes through. i bet this will be a good convention for the republicans. they'll suppress any floor fights. i think christie, ryan, romney will do b, b plus, maybe even a, a minus speeches. so i think they'll get a bump out of their convention. >> all right. there is ed rendell setting the bar high for the opposition party. thanks for joining us, governor. as the gop preps for the convention in florida, marie claire magazine asks how pissed off are republican women? what does s.e. cupp think of that? we'll get into it in the next segment. this happy couple used capital one venture miles

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the republican party has gone too far to the right. i feel like i'm more of a moderate. i don't feel that there are many moderate republicans out there anymore. if they are they're not speaking up. >> i think i just became more aware of the things they were saying and what that meant and how it affected me and my life. >> it's just hard to understand. it's hard to talk to people about it and it has divided our nation. >> that's from a new official obama campaign ad featuring six long self-identified republican women who decided to go democratic this election year. a decision they say is in part based on the gop's recent take on social issues. earlier this year the fbi announced they would no longer use the term forcible rape but for some reason republican politicians like paul ryan keep using it in legislation. there is a plank in the gop platform that says they are antichoice with no exception even in the case of rape or incest which surely makes todd akin happy. so is the republican party

antiwoman? that's the opening question in marie claire's magazine piece "how pissed off are republican women?" the guest spot today features director leah goldman who worked on the piece, the september issue of "marie claire" is on sale now. do you really think gop is antiwoman? >> i think they are themselves making a strong case for that. certainly there are people in the party i'm sure s.e. can speak to this who disagree entirely and say this is a manufactured, political ploy by the democrats. but if it is the republicans are providing no shortage of fuel to stoke that theory. the problem is that there is a good chunk of the republican female base that has a real issue with this being not necessarily the, you know, the platform, 66% of the republican women in the republican party are in fact pro life. this is not a negotiable issue for them. but they didn't want this to be the talking point this year. they didn't anticipate this would be the talking point this year. they don't like that it's the

issue because it is divisive. it's retro. it's straight out of the 1950s and there are a lot of other issues they can win female voters on that have nothing to do with this. so that's what we're hearing from our readers in particular. >> it is kind of interesting you say that two-thirds of republican women are antichoice but they don't want that to be discussed or to be the issue. >> well, it's not -- consider it like this. marie claire for example we consider ourselves the bible of working women. you have more women in the work force than ever before. historically we're doing better than we ever have. women are getting married later. we're making more money, more household decisions. money is a big deal to us and a bigger deal than it's ever been. we're interested in taxes. we're interested in employment. we're interested in health care. we're interested in small business initiatives. all the things that the republicans could leverage the heck out of and yet you don't hear anything about this from them because it's all about women's issues. and so if you're a moderate republican who agrees with that side on fiscal policy you're

sort of, you know, backed into a corner because you're saying socially why is this the -- of all the things going on in this country, why is this the priority? and that's what the message is, out of all the issues this has become the priority and a lot of republican women are saying it's not my priority. >> i have long said that i'm not a republican because of reproductive issues. my daily life is affected a lot more than by taxes. >> right. >> than reproductive issues. certainly there is an aspect that is media -- an aspect that is democratic talking points and then the real aspect of some republicans not all republicans coming out and making social issues and women's issues part of their platform. but it's not the whole of the party and certainly romney has been working very hard to talk about the economy. i think what is really interesting is when you look at the gender gap this is a 30-year trend. and in fact if you look back on the last year during the contraception debate mitt romney and rick santorum's numbers went

up during that time and president obama and congressional democrats' numbers flat lined. so it wasn't because of a pro life or a contraception debate. this has been happening for 30 years. i think if we can put up a pew poll from 2011 i came upon what i think is the most sort of obvious answer to this. it's not the gap between women and men on abortion and contraception. it's that women prefer big government solutions today more than men by a margin of nine points in 2011. when you think back to 1985 when the mantra was sisters are doing it for themselves, now you seem to have the idea of, well the government is my sister's keeper. i think that might also help explain the movement of some women to the democratic party, this embrace of a more activist government. >> you know, i have to be honest with you. i'm not sure i entirely agree because you have republican senators like olympia snowe who

might be identified by the party as more left leaning of the right side. but these are moderate republicans who, you know, find they have no latitude to say, you know, you can be pro life or pro choice but there are other issues on the table that are more pressing. so what we hear from a lot of our readers who interestingly, i mean, women's magazines often get tarred and feathered as sort of devices of the left. but in fact more and more of our readers are identifying themselves as republican and they're saying i don't understand why this is the issue this season. i don't get it. i don't buy into it. this is not what i want to be talking about. i want to be talking about why i can't pay tuition into my -- i'm still paying tuition and health care and unemployment and why am i still struggling to find a job two years after i have graduated? those are the issues they want to talk about. >> of course. >> isn't there also an image issue here where you have the image of a predominantly male party presuming to know and

legislate a woman's body and a woman's decisions? isn't it partly not just the policy but also a sort of image problem that the republican party has? >> sure. nobody wants to be told by a guy how much she should pay for birth control, whether she should have it. those are the kind of conversations you don't want to hear from your dad about. one of the figures lost in this discussion, we talk about this in the office, condi rice a model for a lot of republican women. she is unabashadly conservative, pro choice, doesn't wear it on her sleeve. that is not a talking point of hers. yet she feels she is against late-term abortion and, you know, these are pretty run of the mill positions for a republican to have. and yet she's not part of the conversation. instead it's wright, todd akin. >> in all fairness condi rice will speak at the rnc and is certainly part of the conversation and has been embraced.

>> well you could say that when she has been named to the lineup for the speakers but where has she been for the last months? >> she is a very private person. >> well fine. she makes for a very good icon for a moderate republican woman. >> all right. thanks, leah goldman. up next the ultimate test. which presidential candidate gets the best mark from america's teachers? [ female announcer ] the power of green coffee extract is now in our new starbucks refreshers™ -- a breakthrough in natural energy. made with real fruit, starbucks refreshers™ are delicious low calorie drinks you can feel good about. ♪ rethink how you re-energize. ♪ get a boost of natural energy with a new starbucks refreshers™, in three ways. natural energy from green coffee extract, only from starbucks.

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we get our schools up to standard. by the way, that means putting our kids first. >> the sad thing is education should not be a democratic or a republican issue. it's an american issue. >> it's popular to talk about on the stump but if elected what would the presidential candidates actually do to fix our failing education system? quick review here. we spend more money than any other developed nation on education yet we consistently rank far lower across the board in reading, science, and math. from the school house to the white house the obama campaign ace the romney and ryan ticket will make things worse with budget cuts. the gop says that's just hallway gossip and the latest in a string of, quote, misleading and hypocritical attacks. joining us now to help us sort all of this out and tell us how some teachers are taking matters into their own hands is randy winegarden president of the american federation of teachers. thanks for being with us. >> great to be with you.

>> the president's sort of signature education system achievement has been race to the top encouraging states to compete to improve their schools. >> right. >> i think it is safe to say we're short on details on exactly what a romney administration would do in education. how do you rate the two candidates thus far? >> look. you know, president obama wants to actually help all kids succeed. and mitt romney has been spending a lot of time saying that he would use the department of education to actually be a club against teacher unions. so it's more of the divisiveness that you're seeing on the campaign trail as opposed to rolling up our sleeves and actually helping all kids. at the end of the day we have to help all kids and the countries that out compete us that's what they're trying to do. it is not that our country is not doing better than it's ever done. we had the highest scores and graduation rates but some of the other countries like finland and singapore have actually jumped over us because what they do is they focus on all kids whether they're poor or rich.

and they focus on preparing teachers, great curriculum, leveling the playing field for poor kids, and real collaboration. that's what my union is now trying to do. we're trying to figure out what kind of solutions we can bring to the table. how we can share responsibility to help all kids like this new digital filing cabinet that we have created to make sure teachers can share materials and practices with each other. >> you know, you talk about the obama administration's record on education. the signature achievement is the race to the top program and if there is news on that recently it's that the education department has now set criteria that will allow individual districts across the country to compete for a share of this money. >> right. >> i wonder. this is sort of a massive program, lots of money involved here. you basically have the education department in washington now passing judgment on a random district in kansas or georgia or kentucky and saying hey. we've set these standards. are you living up to them or not? is that really the most efficient way to be reforming education in this country from washington to the individual district level? >> well, you know, look.

i have, there are pluses and minuses about the top. part of what is an issue is you can't create winners and losers when the bottom line is we have to help all kids. at the end of the day local communities want to help want . this new poll shows that 3 out of 4 americans still believe that the investment in teachers is vital. so the bottom line is, washington can help. we need to have washington help with kids who have been left behind. but we need communities to work together on the things that we know work. and that's what we hope will happen in the next administration. but the other thing the obama administration's done in the last few weeks is they have rightfully showed how these rightfully hurt kids. we've had 300 layoffs of teachers, we've seen the cutting of art and music and the things that engage kids. at the same time poverty is

spiking and even enrollment in our public schools is spiking. so what i would plead for is that everybody has to take more responsibility, everybody just like we've tried to overhaul tenure, just like we've tried to say let's do evaluations in a much better way and if teachers can't teach, they shouldn't be there. but we have to roll up our sleeves and not vilify teachers, but help them help kids in classrooms around america. >> randi, we only have a short amount of time. i want to ask you. right now, we have a system where frequently the poorest teachers, lowest achieving teachers who are in the poorest communities. how do you change that so that the kids who really need the most help are getting the best help? >> well, let me say this. in new york city, before bloomberg and klein, we had the chancellors district. we turned around those low-performing schools. we got high-performing teachers into those schools. what we did is we supported them. we paid them more, they worked extra time, we made sure the class sizes were lower. we helped engage parents, we had

guidance counselors. and what happened is every single one of those schools turned around with two years. we need to actually focus on who's teaching, what we're teaching, leveling the playing field for poor kids and collaborating. and when you do that. like we're doing in cincinnati now. you see that turn around. but it starts with working together. >> all right. great to hear your perspective. thanks so much. >> thank you. up next, we've got torre's take on a big talker today, lance armstrong. [ male announce] this is anna, her long day teaching the perfect swing begins with back pain and a choice. take advil, and maybe have to take up to four in a day. or take aleve, which can relieve pain all day with just two pills. good eye.

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mighty casey has -- struck

out. >> if you were to re-write casey at the bat today, mighty casey would not fail on the field, he would kill the joy by winning the big game and failing in the drug testing lab and having his victory invalidated retro actively. the noise around lance armstrong has been growing louder and l d louder by the years. but the fact he'd never failed a drug test made it seem you had to suspend doubt. now it seems like he's seen the mountain of evidence about to be dropped on him and knocked over his king. he remains defiant, but has conceded before the parade of damning testimony against him because that allows him to retain a shred of his image. he helped raise $500 million to

battle cancer and was inspiration to countless sufferers, but he did that under false pretenses, his legacy was built on victories won by cheating. if we'd known that or if he had never won, then he would not have been able to be so inspiring. so the king of modern cycling is dead. just like the king of modern baseball barry bonds and king of modern pitching roger clemens and the queen of modern track. drugs cost him their reputations, we lost the faith that's supposed to be part of the loving sports. who's to believe the games are played honestly and the performance that comes from working hard. who can look at extraordinary success and not wonder what chemists they're privately thanking. among all the drug chiefs who have been caught, lance's story is much more heartbreaking because he was the guy who came back from cancer. from near death, to become the best his sport had seen. he was bigger than cycling, symbol of courage, strength, perseverance and triumph over

the big "c," it's nothing compared to beating cancer. but now we have to look at him differently. he was this. >> everybody wants to know what i'm on. what am i on? i'm on my bike busting my ass six hours a day. what are you on? >> well, he was on his bike, but six hours a day, but he was also trafficking and using drugs. now he looks like a cheat, a liar, a fraud, no longer an inspiration, but a tragic cautionary tale. where have you gone joe dimaggio indeed. >> i've got to say, i think you're coming on a little too hard on him here. i think there's a big difference between what lance armstrong if he really is guilty. and i would say this is maybe he's escaping a mountain of evidence or maybe a lifetime of this organization coming after him and refusing to ever let it go. so i'm not convinced, by the way. it's possible that he's guilty, but i'm not convinced. at the end of the day, there's a difference between, you know,

barry bonds and roger clemens and a lancea armstrong. you glossed over the $500 million for cancer research too much and the source of inspiration that this man is for anybody who is diagnosed with stage 4 cancer. i don't care if he used steroids or not -- >> is he still an inspiration? >> i don't care, he beat stage 4 cancer. and anybody in this country can still look at lance armstrong and can still say i can do it. and that counts for something. >> well, you can say you can beat stage 4 cancer, you can do that, but he became an inspiration. and the t-shirts and all that. >> it added to it. and he still beat stage 4 cancer. >> four cancer survivors, it's not like it was to benefit him. >> his success is what made him to be a superstar not just beating cancer. that does it for the cycle. martin? >> thanks, guys. good afternoon, it's