what a beaut this campaign has become. if there's not love in a marriage, there will be love outside of it. i expect some republicans to seriously rethink what they are getting into here. and that's "hardball" for now. "politicsnation" starts right now with al sharpton. thanks, chris. and thanks to you for tuning in. tonight's lead, one side is in shambles. the other, getting a boost, literally. there are just 57 days to go until this election and the obama campaign is enjoying every bit of it. this week president obama was swept up by a pizza shop owner who happens to be a big fan. did i mention the guy's a republican? and the a.p. snapped this photo of vice president biden chatting

it up with a female biker. no wonder they are in such a good mood. a new poll has them up 6 points over the gop ticket. then, there's governor romney. let's just say, well, he had a difficult weekend. the last time he stumbled this badly was during his disstas rouse overseas trip. remember that? it was so awful the media coined a phrase called romney shambles. well, after yesterday, i think we need to bring that phrase back. mr. romney has run a campaign in which he's offered no specifics, in which he's played fast and loose with the truth and, worst of all, he thought he could get away with it. but this weekend, that strategy was blown out of the water. for months he said he'd repeal the health care law. but now he's trying to hedge his bets. >> on health care, you say that you would rescind the president's health care plan on day one. does that mean that you're prepared to say to americans

young adults and those with pre-existing conditions that they would no longer be guaranteed health care? >> well, of course not. i say we're going to replace obama care. i'm not getting rid of all of health care reform. of course, there are a number of things i like in health care reform that i like put in place. one is to make sure that those with pre-existing conditions can get coverage. >> by yesterday evening, governor romney had flipped again. romney also repeatedly refused to give any specifics about his own tax plan. dodging questions about which tax deductions he's supposedly going to get rid of. >> governor, where are the specifics of how you get to this map? isn't that an issue? >> well, the specifics are these, which is, those principles i described are the heart of my policy. >> what? specifics of principles? romney's trying so hard to duck the question that he's literally not making sense.

and when paul ryan was asked about all of the secrecy, he said he'd reveal their plan after the election. >> don't voters have a right to know which loopholes you're going to go after? >> so mitt romney and i, based on our experience, think the best way to do this is to show the framework, then to work with congress on how to do this. that's the way you get things done. >> isn't that a secret plan? >> no. no. what we don't want is a secret plan. >> you may not want a secret plan but you're running on one. governor romney and congressman ryan thought they would ride into the white house without policy proposals, without specifics, without a vision? but i don't think that bets going to pay off. joining me now is jared bernstein, an msnbc contributor and former chief economist for vice president joe biden and katherine, a former judge,

prosecutor, journalist, and author of patriot acts. first, thank you to both of you for being here. >> thank you. >> catherine, did the romney campaign think they could run this campaign without producing any specifics? i mean, what is that kind of strategy? >> i think so because in a specific one on one conversation several times, romney and ryan have said we don't want to offer anything that the democrats can then attack. well, you attack something, to ferret out problems, to understand what the ramifications are of action. so we're saying, we're not going to let you know things because the consequences could be devastating for an awful lot of people we hope will turn out and vote for us. i think they've signaled that. just like when ann romney said you've gotten all of the tax returns you're going to get because we don't want to be attacked. they don't want a broad discussion of the policies and issues that they intend to

follow. >> but jared, you can't have people rally around things that they don't know who they are rallying around and i noted that the president has been trailing governor romney on the economy but now he has a slight edge for the first time. prior to the dnc romney led 51 to 45 president and now the president leads 50 to 49. is it that romney got specific it would even be worse if people really understood what he was proposing? >> i'm sure that must be what motivates their reluctance to give any specifics. but, you know, the interesting thing is that people will plug the specifics in for them and when they don't give us the facts i think it's well within our rights to try to figure them out. let me give you two very good examples. so yesterday mitt romney says, no, i want to require insurers to cover pre-existing conditions. but we know he's going to repeal

the affordable care act. if you take away the structure of the aca and mandates, what that means is that if you get sick, if you get really sick, you don't have to do any -- you just -- you don't have to have health insurance. you can hang out as much as you want, never pay an insurance premium. but as soon as you get really sick, you go to the health insurer and they have to insure you. this is a called a moral hazard in economics and it's a big market failure. it makes the whole system breakdown pretty quickly. same thing on the tax side. he said we're going to cut taxes 20% across the board. i'm not going to tell you how i'm going to fill in the revenue gap. when you try to fill in that gap, you find out that there are not enough loophole closures to make up the difference. >> let me deal with the loopholes. he will not be specific on what he's going to close. you are an economic add advicer

to the vice president and why won't he be specific? >> well, the question answers itself. the mortgage interest deduction, the state and local deductions of those payments, those are the two big tax expenditures and you simply can't replace the revenue he loses without closing those specific loopholes and, by the way, that's why the tax policies are under nonpartisan tax analysts will lower taxes on lower income people while cutting people at the top. >> and remember the conversation that general norquist, the corporate debt reduction, you are raising taxes. that is certainly an argument, although i don't buy into that argument. so once they get in, then the response for many in the tea party and the norquist said is going to be, you can't eliminate deductions because that is essentially -- >> even corporate jets because to eliminate my deductions from

my corporate jet is -- >> exactly. >> so the point is here, as us three are doing, i think quite handedly -- >> i have that. i want to be clear on why they are not filling it in. >> it doesn't fill the revenue gap which is the same position that they take with the corporate jets. why do you even bother with any of these which may well be the parallel argument along with it is a tax increase. >> to fill the money gap is what jared was talking about with the big ticket items and they can't touch those. and then if you touch other items besides those, it doesn't fill a gap. i didn't go to school in arkansas like bill clinton. >> i call this the -- where i work, we call this the tax reform trap. what they say is we're going to

lower the rates and broaden the base. what you're going to get are lower rates but when it comes to broadening the base, you're not going to see that. what that does is leave you with a much, much larger deficit problem in the out years. >> plus, the trickle down that has been thoroughly debunked by reagan's own economists. >> but it wasn't romney alone. let's be fair. here his partner, paul ryan, he argued this weekend -- let's give him some time. because he had a few interviews, too. he said he didn't vote for the automatic defense cuts that -- >> oh -- >> he did vote for them. take a look at this. >> so you voted for defense cuts and now you're criticizing the president for those same defense cuts that you voted for and called a victory? >> no. no. i have to correct you on this, nora. i voted for a mechanism that says a sequester will occur if

we don't cut $1.2 trillion in spending. >> a trillion in defense spending and you voted for it. >> no. nora -- nora, you're mistaken. >> he voted for a mechanism and she was mistaken but let me show you what mr. ryan absolutely did back this agreement when it was up and he, in fact, praised the agreement. take a listen. >> what this has done t. has brought our two parties together and i'd just like to take a second to reflect for a moment that we have a bipartisan compromise here. that doesn't happen all that often around here so i think it's worth noting. that's a good thing. this is a down payment on the problem. it's a good step in the right direction and it is a huge cultural change to this institution. >> and that is a huge lie he

told this reporter. >> there's no question about that. but we heard that with the medicare, right? we're going to cut the rate increase and all of a sudden that is devastating, the $700 billion. what we're hearing in terms of outright bald face -- and i'm going to use the word lie, not misrepresentation -- i would think that republicans would be demanding the same sort of information that you're asking for and that we're entitled to facts, we're entitled to know who and what we're voting for and don't sit there on television and think that you're going to get away with absolutely lying about a position that is so easy to track. >> well, jared, let me ask this and then catherine said she wasn't going to say lie but she said lie. >> i did. >> jared, let me ask this question. >> sure. >> mr. romney left his convention and he went in to prep for the debates. well, if he was prepping for the

debates but did not give specifics, what was he prepping for? i don't see how you take off days to prepare to get ready to say what you're not going to say until after the election. >> well, look, i think a lot of people are looking to the debates for this very reason. in fact, i would say i'm one of them. it's very hard to duck -- >> but he didn't give specifics until after the election. >> so here you're going to have a chance, if you are a president obama or joe biden, you're going to have a chance to not only call for specifics but if you don't get them, to say -- a lot of people haven't even tuned in yet. that's what we're talking about. in part, thankfully, because there are folks like yourself trying to shine some light on this. >> catherine crier and jared bern stein, thank you for your time. >> thank you. president obama is bouncing

ahead at the polls and republicans are running out of excuses and, plus, the election was supposed to be about the economy but now romney's diving back into the culture wars. also, one of ohio's top republicans fired two democratic officials who were simply trying to help people vote. now they are hitting back and we'll talk to them live. you're watching "politicsnation" on msnbc. [ male announcer ] with a driving range of more than 550 miles you'll inevitably find yourself on a desolate highway in your jeep grand cherokee. and when you do, you'll be grateful for the adaptive cruise control that automatically adjusts your speed when approaching slower traffic. and for the blind-spot monitor... [ beeping ] ...that helps remind you that the highway

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great photo of president obama getting a pick me up from a voter in florida. terence says, this has got to be the pic of the year. love it. jose says he would love to give the president a great bear hug but henrietta says she would give him a fist bump instead. we'll have more later. but we want to hear what you think, too. head over to facebook and "like" us to join the conversation for the conversation that keeps going long after the show ends. what we need are people prepared for the careers of our new economy. by 2025 we could have 20 million jobs without enough college graduates to fill them. that's why at devry university, we're teaming up with companies like cisco to help make sure everyone's ready with the know how we need for a new tomorrow. [ male announcer ] make sure america's ready. make sure you're ready. at devry.edu/knowhow. ♪

we're getting more evidence that the president is enjoying a

sizeable bounce at the convention. these four national polls show the president has moved ahead of mitt romney. with a poll out this afternoon showing a six-point lead for the president. also, the president's favorability rating has gone up 6 point. during the same period, romney has gone down by 5 points. ouch. nate silver says, the conventions may have changed the composition of the race and romney and say facts don't matter, his new memo says, quote, don't get too worked up

about the latest polling. why some voters will feel a bit of a sugar high. the basic structure has not changed significantly. a sugar high? really? with reasoning like that, our dearly diluted romney campaign may be in for a surprise. here from the washington post and patricia murphy, thank you both for joining me tonight. >> it's great to be here. >> thank you. >> just a sugar high or is it a real bounce? >> well, it looks like it's a real bounce. if you look at all of those polls, it's consistent that the president is leading and that has been the case for much of the summer. mitt romney chose to really focus on fundraising. august was supposed to be a big month for him. picking a vice president, reintroducing himself to the american public through the conventions and it looks like he

did not get anything of a bounce out of that and in many of these polls it shows that they have stalled. i think when you get a memo like this, like all reporters and folks call it following this campaign, got this morning from a pollster that doesn't really have any poll numbers in it that doesn't talk about florida, that doesn't talk about virginia, that doesn't talk about ohio, i think it's proof of this campaign is in trouble also that mention of the word significantly that things haven't changed significantly. i think that word in itself suggests that things have sort of changed in the is sense that they are gelled in a lot of these variables in this campaign are locked in place and locked in place against mitt romney. >> well, patricia, clearly when you get those kind of polls and they don't have florida and other things in it nia-malika is raising, fact checking doesn't matter but why do states matter? when you look at the cnn poll,

when they raise a question, who do you think will win, 59% think president obama will win and 37% says romney when you raise a question of who connects better to middle class and women, more in touch with problems faces the middle class, 57 to 37. these are significant gaps in these areas. if you add this to that bounce, does this look real to you? >> well, you know what, that cnn poll is so important and that really was the first time since the convention that i started to think that this really is real because that cnn poll was a much more detailed poll over the course of several days. all of them after the convention and so you start to see the impression that the democrats were able to lead with that convention and also makes you look back and think about what happened during the republican convention. we heard a lot about who might be the next generation of republican leaders. we heard a lot about barack obama, that entire campaign,

that entire convention was based on a poll that took president obama out of context that you didn't build this and almost nothing about mitt romney, contrast that to the democrats, 72 hour basically infommercial and i think that we see, especially with the cnn poll, that that worked for the democrats. will it last? we don't know that part. frank newport from gallup said we don't know how long it's going to last but it's starting to look like the democrats did their job when they held the convention. >> nia, when you look at the fact that "the wall street journal" has pointed out that romney's obstacles in battleground states and i'm reading, quote, romney faceses the disconcerting reality that he isn't winning most of the states he would need to beat president obama, now, "the wall street journal" is certainly no friend of the presidents, saying that he's facing this

disconcerting reality. the polls don't look good. what are the options for romney to even try and turn this around? >> well, i think you saw him roll out one of his options of this weekend. he was in virginia beach. i was covering him there and he started to sort of delve into the culture war, talk about god, talk about politics and if we are waging over in god we trust on the currency. i think that's what he sees that he needs to do. in a state like virginia, though, the population of voters go to the polls, 20% of those voters are going to be african-american. the latest polls out of virginia show about 3% of african-americans in virginia actually support romney. so in some ways i think he's seeded that african-american vote so i think he's got to turn to the real, you know, right wing base of that party. you saw, for instance, pat robertson at that speech. and on the other hand he also seems to be tacking towards the

middle in talking about the health care and of course he back pedalled against that as well. >> well, let me ask you, in these battleground states, the president is leading in new hampshire, nevada, colorado, florida, iowa, ohio, virginia, and wisconsin. romney is leading only in north carolina, according to the real how do you turn this into any kind of winning scenario given the polling in these critical states that only really gives him one. >> well, i think one reason that mitt romney is in particular trouble here, the dynamics have changed significantly, that really isn't true. it's time and the romney campaign is running out of time to make and you only get one chance and you only get a couple of chances to make an impression

among voters. they are running among details. they said they would change if he was the president and i think that he is running out of time and these polls and well, well before actual voting day. so if the president continues to lead in these polls, it doesn't mean he's just having a good day, any old day before the election. it means that there are voters in these swing states. north carolina is already voting. voters in these swing states have the ability to cast their vote for barack obama. he can lock that in. 30% of voters in this poll. >> nia-malaki henderson, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you, ref. still ahead, the tea party

on national tv, got to hand it to these folks. they don't let the facts get in the way. and president obama hugs it out with the republican supporter. >> it seemed like he was a long lost friend and it was just amazing. a great connection, he came over and that's where the bear hug happened. i was so caught up in the moment and it was unbelievable. >> you're watching "politicsnation" on msnbc. i have a cold, and i took nyquil,

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day six of the talking points, just ask kentucky rand paul. on sunday, rand paul refused president obama. even when nobel prize gave him the facts. >> that's a fact. >> the size of government is enormous under president obama. >> if government employment had grown as fast as it did under president. >> okay, then.

let's get some things straight. there are more than 600,000 and fewer as in less than. that's right. of course, that's mostly because republicans have gutted jobs at the state and local level. making the nation's employment picture that much worse. in fact, wall street journal reported back in may that if we still had all of those government jobs, the unemployment rate would be a whole lot lower at 7.1%. and do they think nice try but we got you. get him up. [ sizzling ] ♪

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governor romney, was mr. economy, the businessman that got to create jobs, the man that turned things around. so 57 days from the election, here are his great plans for job creation. >> if i become president of the united states, i will not take god out of my heart. i will not take god out of the public square and i will not take it out of the platform on my party. >> i will not take god out of my heart? okay. okay. but surely the mr. fix it gave his vision on the economy. >> i will not take god out of the name of our platform. >> i will not take god off our coins and i will not take god out of my heart. we're a nation bestowed by god. we believe in a nation under god, a nation indivisible and we, the american people, are given our rights not by government but by god himself.

>> he won't take god out of his heart and did i miss something? white house press secretary jay carney said, quote, the president believes as much that god should be taken off a coin as he does that aliens will attack florida. it's an absurd question to be raised. but there is a reason mr. economy is now mr. god. he needs the evangelical base. over the weekend, governor romney had a private meeting with the far right televangelist who also showed up at one of his rallies and last week we had steven king to open for him at an iowa rally. mr. romney's keeping company with the french. he's betting on christian conservatives. but is he really just running on a wing and a prayer? joining me now is joe madison,

nationally syndicated radio host of "mornings with madison" and frank schafer, columnist of the huffing tonight post and author of "crazy for god." thank you both for being here tonight. >> thank you. >> frank, what do you make of romney and his campaign sth. >> well, i am a christian and i'm offended by the fact that the republican party keeps using god the same way they use their billionaires, to bulk up their pacs. god is not a toy. others have really got to stop voicing their opinion and there are plenty who are. for example, i'm part of patheos.com, they object strenuously to what the republicans are doing by trying to use god in a last ditch

effort to fool evangelical right-wing christians, fox viewers to somehow believe that they are fighting against a president who is anti-christian. this is a lie. it was a lie when the bishop said it about contraceptive availability for women working for roman catholic constitutions and it's a lie now. but it's a filthy lie because it trades on the currency. talk about taking god off the coin, it's a religion to bolst the campaign because they are despising the poor. i'm just tired of it. >> when you say bulk up like he does with billionaires, how exactly do you mean that they are using god and religion to bulk up his campaign? >> look, the republicans understand that they are losing this race because sensible americans like social security

and medicaid and they are tired of giving a free ride to billionaires. and so they have to turn to their base. the last-ditch effort to the base is talk about the president being anti-religious as if he wants to take the time scraping god off the coins and talk about pro choice -- and these things have never been issues. if the republicans were honest, they would talk about the fact that president obama is pro life because he has done more to try to give women who are in problem periods of their life economically the economic ability to have children, the medical care to have families, and all these other things and instead of this they just keep lying from the beginning of the day to the end of the day and now this is just the latest deal. and i say again, i resent this use of god as a political football by people for ulterior

purposes. >> romney's senior adviser has said that romney's campaign message really hasn't changed. he says, quote, the subject has been the economy, is the economy, and will be the economy. mitt romney doesn't want to change the subject. he wants to change the economy and that's what he's going to do as president. but people don't seem to be buying it like they were. our president has been trailing him in the past on the economy but now he has a slight edge. prior to the dnc romney led 51 to 45, on not a president and is it because we are losing, we are seeing romney lose the economic issue and a lot of us that are believers and not even an issue here? >> well, let me add -- let me stick to this religious thing.

i've heard of reverend sharpton' sermons and i would rather hear a sermon than see a sermon. let's remember, mary and joseph had to go to jerusalem to pay their taxes. you heal those who are sick. obama care. you close those wyou clothes those with who are maked. that's what christians are hearing from the obama administration and when you look at the budget of romney and what they plan to do to working people and poor people in this country, it is unchristian. so you just can't throw god out there and then say it's a great sermon. the question is, how do you live that sermon? how do you govern that sermon? and that's what i think is why you are seeing this rise because people would rather see a sermon than hear one.

>> frank, when you look at the fact that romney met with pat robinson this weekend, let's show a few things that robertson believes in. pat robertson has said that god will did i destroyer america because of guy marriage. he says, democrats are the party of godlessness. he says, adopting foreign children orphans is wrong. and he believes president obama has a muslim incli nag. this is who the president nominee of the republican party was with this weekend. your response to that? >> well, mitt romney should have listened to john mccain's better angels who calls pat robertson an agent of intolerance. one insane thing that happened, somebody sent me the clips, so i'm not making this up. pat robertson got a clip on his show, a woman having marital disputes with a woman who

wouldn't do what he said and he advised this guy to go to saudi arabia where it would be legal to beat his wife. i thought that is just a crazy joke but repeats it at the end of the segment. so we're talking about a right wing religion group of people who are generally unhinged. anybody who has read this memoir understands that i come from this background, my father was a religion right leader. i knew pat robertson. when you get to folks like pat robertson or now mitt romney and others using god in this political way, they are really anti-christian. i want to repeat it. if you're following jesus, let's just say we don't know who jesus is but we do know what he said about the poor, about caring for people. jesus' philosophy was not that the wealthy should triumph and

the poor is dirt under the feet. the corporate american philosophy that is now pouring in with $100 million donors to these pacs that romney is trying to win his election with, these folks are not using god in the wrong way. i think they are anti-christian and as a christian i not only resent the misuse of god in this campaign against what i think is one of our best presidents who has dug us out of one of the deepest holes we're in but i resent it as a christian. >> let me ask joe this. because i agree with a lot of your theological views and very passionate about it as a minister. joe, isn't the real point that americans should not have to go through the scriptures of who is right or wrong, those of us that look at christianity one way or another or whatever religion but that we ought to be talking about the policies regardless of to what people's religious beliefs are that?

this is a democracy, not a theocracy. >> that's exactly what the founders and the right wing love to quote the founders, they understood that. we are not a thecracy. we have a democracy and respect all religions but most important of all we respect human dignity. >> right. >> and when you repeat what pat robertson said, i have my own story. we went to sudan to free slaves. i met with pat robertson and i asked for help. you know what he said, get them guns. >> you know, i did a commercial with pat robertson for al gore about climate warming and sat out on the couch right by the water. we never did resolve who was going to walk on that water. joe madison and frank schafer, thanks for your time tonight and thank you for joining me. coming up, ohio's republican secretary of state is doing everything he can to suppress

the vote but ohions won't stop fighting. two ee legs officials fired for just standing up have filed a lawsuit. they will join us next live. bob... oh, hey alex. just picking up some, brochures, posters for just standing up have filed a lawsuit. they will join us next live. off for just standing up have filed a lawsuit. they will join us next live. offr just standing up have filed a lawsuit. they will join us next live. off just standing up have filed a lawsuit. they will join us next live. off just standing up have filed a lawsuit. they will join us next live. off just standing up have filed a lawsuit. they will join us next live. offt standing up have filed a lawsuit. they will join us next live. eof cofficials fired for

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the battle for ohio is fierce and republican secretary of state john hughsted appears to be doing everything that he can to tip the scales ppds. he's committed to making voting secure and fair but he's trying to secure voting on weekends. today officials that husted fired are fighting back. they say they were wrongly fired for refusing to file early voting hours. joining me are the two democratic election officials fired by the ohio secretary of state. thanks to both of you for being on this show. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> thomas, let me start with you. why did you file this lawsuit today? >> well, we think the secretary

of state is wrong in his actions. we think that we did not disobey the order and all we attempted to do was to ensure that early vote was allowed here in our county as we have done in the previous election. >> so, dennis, you're really just doing what you always did. were husted's moves that you continued the traditional way. what would be the impact of voters in ohio to what husted did or is trying to do? >> what he's trying to do, in my opinion, is to suppress the vote. meaning that we had 29,000 people that voted early in montgomery county alone and 100,000 across a state. and by limiting the number of hours that they can vote early or by taking away weekends, it limits the opportunities that people have to vote and what he's hoping is that there will

be less democrats that vote, over 40% of those in montgomery county that voted early were african-american. and i really think this is a concerted effort to restrict voters in ohio. and that's something that we're not going to sit down for. we're going to fight that. >> now, let me go back to you a minute, tom. husted ran john mccain's campaign in '08. he's a partisan guy. he knows the facts just laid out by dennis and in the county where 40% were african-american. all you're doing is what was always done since these early voting days were put there and which maximizes people's right to vote, whoever they vote for thrk is what democracy is supposedly about. am i right?

>> absolutely. >> do you think that you, then, tom, are being targeted because you are not going along with a scheme that in effect would undermine what may be a partisan desire by the secretary of state since he has such a partisan background? >> absolutely. if he's able to squauch us, and he's coming with the election in the state. >> now, tom, when you file the lawsuit, your hopes are to do what? i know that it n's just not abo money. you really want to expose what here in this lawsuit? >> we want to make sure that the people of this state can vote out, making sure that all people have access, and certainly it's not about the money with dennis and i. it's about doing the right thing. from the very beginning, all we

wanted to do was what we voted to do in 2008 and again in 2012. we wanted to continue the practice and we wanted to make sure that everyone had equal access, equal opportunity, and were given the assistance that they needed in this county. >> dennis, i had both of you on before and as this was going back and forth, you knew it was possible that you would be fired. why would you two men, mature men with responsibilities, why would you go this far to where you now don't have a job? >> well, you know, like i said last time, when i was on your show, you can get another job but you can't get another conscience. and this is so meaningful to the people in ohio and to montgomery county that i just couldn't stand for it and neither could tom and we had to stand up and be counted and we have done that. i mean, to me, it's redick cue

louse to suggest that in owe ohio you can buy alcohol on sundays but you can't vote. >> wow. you can buy alcohol but you can't vote. i've got to leave it there. you are two patriots as far as i'm concerned, tom, dennis, thank you both for being here. we'll be watching where this goes. we'll be right back. you can't argue with nutrition you can see. great grains. great grains cereal starts whole and stays whole. see the seam? more processed flakes look nothing like natural grains. i'm eating what i know is better nutrition.

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>> man, i'm so excited. >> are you a power lifter or what? >> the power lifter talked to the media on this network earlier today. >> he busted through my front door and said, where's scott? from that moment on, it seemed like he was a long lost friend. >> this long lost friend also happens to be a republican. a republican small business owner who voted for president obama in 2008 and will vote for him again this year. here's part of the reason why. >> i was just, you know, taken back by, you know, his dedication and just seemed like a great guy and he really is a great guy after i met him. >> a great guy. this is the kind of moment that can't be manufactured. it's one of those campaign moments