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so that's ten security gators, right? put them on my spark card! why settle for less? testing hot tar... great businesses deserve the most rewards! [ male announcer ] the spark business card from capital one. choose unlimited rewards with 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase, every day! what's in your wallet? here's your invoice. welcome back. i'm craig melvin. you're watching msnbc. here's what's making news this hour. today president obama added a new campaign stop to his schedule. the president will visit wisconsin next week. it is a state that he won in 2008 by 14 points. but recent polls show mitt romney is closing the gap, ra perhaps helped by paul ryan's prepares on his ticket. paul ryan is in florida today focusing on the economy. >> here is the problem.

we don't need sugar high economics. we don't need synthetic money creation. we need economic growth. we want wealth creation. we don't want to print money. we want opportunity and growth. >> one more note here about wisconsin. a judge there has struck down much of the state law championed by governor scott walker that virtually ended collective war beginning rights for most public workers. the law however remains largely in effect for state workers, but not for city, count city and school workers. the state will appeal the decision. we'll have more on these stories in the next two hours. now more on that big labor win in wisconsin, want to bring in the panel. bob cusack, edward isaac, and katherine rampelt. good afternoon to all of you. katherine, the law still remain intact for state worker, but a

win for city, county and school workers. what does the ruling mean for the union movement as a whole? >> there was concern that this could be a press departmecedent states. they're out of cash and very reluctant to raise taxes, so as a result, many voters are hoping that instead public workers will bear the brunt of a lot of the cuts that are needed to balance those budgets. so the concern was that maybe this happening in wisconsin and will spread to other states. but no take looks less likely. >> bob, do you think this ruling will have an impact on other states? >> i think it might. i also think that labor is on the ballot in november. back in the day of the team sister backed president reagan. now romney criticals of unions. reagan. now romney criticals of unions. i think romney probably has to win wisconsin because it looks

like his path to victory is through the midwest because the southwest doesn't look as good. i just think this union battle is going to probably help democrats because it will get them to show up on november 6th. >> edward e, there's movement i the chicago teachers strike. both sides now back at the bargaining table to work out the details of a new contract. we hear this thing is practically a done deal. mitt romney accused the president of siding with the union instead of schoolchildren. if it gets resolved soon, does that it is solve a thorny situation for the president? >> of course this is a thorny situation for the president given that his former chief of staff is the mayor, the one in the battle with the teachers union. and it's in his hometown. but the president's very carefully avoided any real involvement with this whole situation. it's all optics and image of how the president is with the unions overall. but i do think that labor as a whole is seeing a real choice in

this election and what happened in wisconsin yesterday and over the last year and a half has really helped make that case. >> katherine, there has been so much talk about labor itself in this country being under assault. with the victory in wisconsin, potential victory in chicago, are these signs that organized labor is making a comeback? >> comeback might be a little bit too strong of a term. if you look at public reactions or public opinion of unions, it's been on the decline for decades at this point. union membership has been on the decline, as well. and actually the majority of union members are public sector workers and not private sector workers which is a relatively recent phenomenon. i think that people are still -- nonpublic workers are still somewhat resentful of the fact that public workers are more likely to get pensions, they get more dozgenerous benefits as it relates to their base salary. so i think it's unclear about whether people are still going

to be at least as resentful toward public sector workers and union members in particular. who knows how this strike in particular is going to affect public opinion towards teachers and public workers in general. >> bob, you've got to think, though, hd this chicago teachers strike, had it dragged on for two, three, four weeks or something like that, you've got to wonder what the political impact would have been on this race in november. >> and president obama would have had to delve in at some point. president obama needs the unions. the unions were not enamored with what he did in the first time especially the trade deals. so he needs that union money to combat the conservative super pacs because mitt romney has been outraising president obama i'm told until just recently. so obama needs their money this fall. >> bob, edward, and katherine, thank you all so much. we'll talk to you a little bit later in the hour. back to the middle east now.

protests over an american produced film that mocked islam targeted u.s. embassies throughout the muslim world. in los angeles, one map believed to be involved in the making of the film was taken in for questioning overnight. authorities said he was not arrested, not detained. two other key members of the team responsible for the film remain in hiding we're told. mike taibbi has been following the story for us. mike, first of all, who are these filmmakers and have any of them said a whole lot about the violence that resulted in part from the film? >> actually, no, craig, they haven't said a whole lot.only person that's spoken is steven klein. let me tell you who they are. the person is a man named nakoula basseley nakoula. he is an egyptian born christian. and he wasn't arrested. he wasn't brought into custody actually, but he voluntarily agreed to answer questions.

2000 get past the media bob that's been outside his house, he disguised him in the way you sa saw. the others involved in the making of this video and the decision to turn what had been a film project into this toxic video include joseph nasoula, he has a charity and studio 25 miles east of where we are right now and one of the key show hosts on his television operation which is a web television, a web video operation, there's a guy named steven klein. steven klein is the ex-marine who has spoken out and spoken out, he's proud of the film. a self described consultant. said it told the truth. but klein's own dedescriptions of islam have been so hateful, he's on the watch list of several hate frups. groups. some of his own writings found

their way into the doctored version of the video that came out and hit with such tremendous force among the muslim world. those are the three who are key figures in the video. i'm not even sure whether there was ever a fully completed movie. >> just that 14 minute clip. >> that's right. but that was enough. if you're going to shout fire in a crowded theater, to use the internet as the theater where there are a million plus people in it, you can cause tremendous havoc. >> and have they received death threats or do we know that at this point? >> klein says he has. klein was seen by a local reporter driving out of town saying he was leaving town because he had believable death threats. it's intuitive that there might be. but two of them are at unknown locations and this guy nakoula was said to have told sheriff's deputies that he, too, was not going to return home, but would go to an undisclosed location. >> mike taibbi, thank you so much, sir. do appreciate your time as always. so how do you run against a

war president? and are we facing a clash of civilizations with the arab world yet again? general wesley clark whether join me straight ahead. [ male announcer ] wouldn't it be cool if we took the nissan altima and reimagined nearly everything in it? gave it greater horsepower and best in class 38 mpg highway... advanced headlights... and zero gravity seats? yeah, that would be cool. ♪ introducing the completely reimagined nissan altima. it's our most innovative altima ever. nissan. innovation that excites. ♪ [ male announcer ] finally, mom's oven-baked tastes straight from the microwave. like oven-roasted chicken in a creamy alfredo sauce. marie callender's new comfort bakes. it's time to savor.

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mitt romney taking a day off, he's at home in massachusetts. the candidate took a lot of heat this week from democrats and republicans as well over his criticism of president obama. it was left to paul ryan to take the campaign to florida today, a state where the president holds an edge according to a number of polls. so what's ahead for the romney campaign? peter alexander is with the team romney in the boston area there.

joins me from newton, massachusetts. good afternoon to you, sir. >> good to visit with you you. >> mitt romney at home today. possibly regrouping. how is the romney campaign planning to walk back this past week? >> i would say they have no plans to walk back the past week. they are not backing down the criticisms of president obama and his handling of what's taking place in the middle east. they say one of the themes we witnessed and that we'll likely see in the week ahead is this issue of strength versus weakness, arguing that a romney presidency would be strong, where an obama presidency has been weak. even though romney campaign concedes they are behind in the po poll, they acknowledge there is a small divide, but what's happened in recent days with anti-american uprisings reflects poorly on problem, not on mitt romney and the way he's handled

the reaction to the deaths of the ambassador and three others in libya. >> some are saying mitt romney should give a foreign policy address. any plans for that soon? >> it's a good question. we know there are discussions in place right now about a potential foreign policy speech that could take place in the next month or so. you know, you got to understand that this is a candidate who is balancing several things right now. some attack ads that they have on the air, fund-raising right now that continues, preparation for the debates that begin october 3rd. so foreign policy speech isle also on that list. we do know mitt romney will be making an address at the clinton global initiative.on that list. we do know mitt romney will be making an address at the clinton global initiative. another place where he can draw the stark contrast between himself and the president. but in terms of a specific speech, we don't have any date lined up. there is another big speech scheduled for monday about that we'll be traveling with the campaign when it heads to los

angeles, that speefch will be delivered to a large hispanic business group in the los angeles area. he's been trailing among latinos and hispanics in the u.s. roughly 2:1. >> what strategy have you heard that the campaign is going to be using on the ground over the next few days? >> it's a good question. we've been reaching out to them. the campaign insists this has been a vigorous campaign, they have been active across the country. but there are only a total of five events over the last five or so days. we thought we might see them pick up the pace. instead the candidate is down today. he does pick it up tomorrow with stops in colorado before heading off to los angeles. >> peter al lebs exander gettin overtime for us. thanks. more now on the impact of that anti-islam fill that him we've been talking about a lot here. republican presidential nominee mitt romney wasted no time criticizing the obama administration's initial

response to those attacks with this statement. and this was him on wednesday. >> when our grounds are being attacked and being breached, that the first response to the united states must be outrage at the breach of the sovereignty of our nation. and apology for america's values is never the right course. >> democrats even some republicans say mitt romney jumped the gun. so how hard is to manage presidential politics and foreign policy? my guest this afternoon, general wesley clark, former nato commander. also chairman and ceo of wesley k. clark and associates. that is a segment for another day, wesley k. clark and associates. also ran for president in 2004 as a democrat. good afternoon to you, sir. thanks for being here with us. mitt romney has come under fire for his comments in the wake of what's happening in the middle east. what are the challenges, what

are the difficulties of taking on an incumbent war time president? >> well, first of all, you don't know what he knows. he has the whole apparatus of the u.s. government feeding him information and you're somewheres else and you're being handled by aides. so you don't have a good -- the smart thing to do is get your facts together before you speak. don't pop off. don't jump the gun. in the military, we know the first report is almost always wrong. wait for the truth to come out. don't fall prey to the prish of what's your response, what's your responses, what are you going to say, what are you going to say. just get the facts together first. he didn't. >> the united states has sent a lot of money to the middle east to support the arab uprising in part, more than $1.5 billion to egypt. $1.5 million for libya that egypt money is proposed for next year. are we getting our money's worth

in the middle east? >> certainly. certainly. >> really? >> sure. we've been supporting egypt in many different ways. really since the last 1970s when we brought -- when president carter brought the middle east peace process and got peace between israel and egypt. after the 1973 war, we brought egypt over to our side. they threw out their soviet advisers at that point and they became a partner for the united states in maintaining stability. so over 30 year, we've been supporting this relationship through democratic and republican administrations. >> but it's a complicated relationship. the president this week saying that they are essentially a frenemy, not an ally, but not an enemy, as well. >> they're a partner. we give them the status of a major nonnato ally because we give them being a tes to defense goods and supplies and services so they can maintain security and maintain a strong position because they work with us as a

partner in maintaining regional stability. >> newt gingrich wrote that the president has failed to confront the reality of the threat posed by islamic militants. i want to put a snippet on the screen. the united states has moved two warships off the coast of wlib yarks we're sending marines to the sudan. could this crisis drag us into another war? >> i don't think so. i think this is an explosion of popular anger. it's the revolution of rising expectations. when you throw off autocratic leadership, the fringe elements, i've got a chance for power, they didn't get power by the ballot box. so they're showing their power now in egypt, they're showing it in libya. and they get a double bonus effect because on the one hand, they show their power, they rant and rail against the united states, but if the united states reacts against these mod

moderate goech moderate governments, it makes the democratic government weaker. >> so what are we left to do as a country? >> work with these governments. they want to support us. want jobs, they want democracy, all the values we've been preaching, but it takes a while to get there. and you're dealing with unlevel education, high levels of unemployment, lots of frustration among young people, some goes back years and years. and i had lamb whiislam which h they didn't stand the chance. so there's sense of sort of us against them. and all of these factors weigh into this equation. but the majority of the people, and certainly the governments in these countries, they value their relationship with the

united states, they don't want anything to happen to it, they're strongly pro american, but they're -- >> that's despite what we see in the streets. >> of course. this is a small minority of people. very small minority. >> we appreciate your perspective, sir. thank you for your time. up next, mitt romney has spent an awful lot of time at his home in new hampshire this summer. will it pay off for him on election day? we'll talk about that. we have new poll numbers that we want to share with you next. up. a short word that's a tall order. up your game. up the ante. and if you stumble, you get back up. up isn't easy, and we ought to know. we're in the business of up. everyday delta flies a quarter of million people while investing billions improving everything from booking to baggage claim. we're raising the bar on flying and tomorrow we will up it yet again.

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eeeee! yeah. i get all my friends' pics as soon as they take them. really? you just missed an awesome dance off between the dads. oh... wow! (laughing) you just missed the cake fight. seriously? everyone's taking pictures like they're paparazzi. are we missing that? we're not, check it out. aww, yeah, haha. excuse me. vo: get all your friends' photos automatically with share shot on the galaxy s3. hey! first dance! are you kidding me??? survey says -- a look at the polls. we lovele polls here in case you didn't though. new hampshire poll finds president obama leading mitt romney among the granite state's likely voters by five points. 45% to 40%. our new nbc news/wall street journal mar maris poll has

president obama going three for three. in florida, obama leads by five points.obama going three for th. in florida, obama leads by five points. also in virginia by the same margin. and in ohio, president obama hits 50%. he's seven points ahead of mitt romney there. mitt romney had trouble courting the conservative base. can he count on them to push him through the general election? we'll talk to tony perkins. they have a big event in d.c. this weekend. and also thoughts about secrecy, drones and tax returns. and you might be surprised about what he has to say a little bit later, the president pulling out some serious star power to bring some serious cash. how many millions will two of the biggest names on the planet be able to pull in? copd makes it hard to breathe, but with advair, i'm breathing better.

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here's a quick look at stories making news right now. a man believed to be a member of the afghan local police shot and killed two nato service members today. that makes 47 international service members who have died in so-called green on blue attacks this year. the protests from that anti-muslim film have thousand spread to about 20 countries around the world.have thousand spread to about 20 countries around the world. chicago public schoolteachers are rallying after announcing they have reached an agreement in principal. if the union ratifies the deal, 350,000 students will go back to school monday after a week at home. the values voters summit is taking place in weekend. paul ryan was the main attraction yesterday. and he had some harsh words for the president. take a listen. >> lately he's been trying out a new tactic.

it's a classic barack obama strong man. if anyone dares point out the facts of his record, they're being negative and pessimistic about the country. the new strong man is hoping for the decline of america. >> tony perkins joins me from the family research council, organizer of the summit. good afternoon to you, sir. >> how are you this saturday afternoon? >> doing well. thanks for asking. very few people do that. mitt romney did not attend, although he did send a recorded message i'm told. is mr. romney the candidate that the base feels excited about? >> i think they're getting excited about it. i think it was a good move to have paul ryan come and speak. mitt romney has been there every year except this year. but did he send a greeting to reconnect. but paul ryan really connected with the value voters.

we have almost 2500 present, about 25,000 watching online. so it's been a great weekend. >> tony perkins, i just asked you if the base is excited about mitt romney and your response was they're getting very excited. >> yeah, no -- >> if they're not excited now, what the point do they? >> they're excited about the election, but let be real. the primary was a very divided primary. had several candidates in it. but they are rallying around mitt romney. the realization is that we've had four years of barack obama with policies from an economic standpoint that have not been good for the country. from a standpoint of the social and cultural issue, certainly not good according to this crowd and what we've seen unfold in the last four years. so first off, yes, they're very motivated in the election, but now that motivation to remove barack obama is turning into support for mitt romney. and i see the intensity and i believe it will reach a point where mitt romney will be

successful. >> you mentioned the primaries. do you think the republican primary made mitt romney a stronger candidate or do you think that they weakened him? >> no, craig, i think that's a great point. i actually think it made him a stronger candidate. if you'd listened to his message yesterday, what he did is a good portion of his message was the message that rick santorum had in the primary. and he acknowledged it. he said i learned a lot from rick santorum and i understand these issues are important. so he has become a much stronger candidate especially when it comes to the value issues in this general election and people are moving, where they weren't last year, and the best comparison, four years ago, this crowd was ambivalent about the general election, they didn't know much about barack obama, weren't excited about john mccain. this time they no about barack obama and they're getting very excited about mitt romney. so he's well on his way. >> are they excited or motivated about mitt romney or is it more we really just don't like what the president's done over the past few years?

because i think those are very different. >> you are right and i'll be candid, it's both. the first step was a complete disenchantment with barack obama and secondly this growth of support with mitt romney. he has been slow or was slow coming out of the primary to begin connecting with value voters. but i'll have to say, i think he's been doing a great job and i was one of his critics in the primary. >> i remember. >> and i'm pleased with what i see. and i have no hesitancy in saying that i support him, that i think he would make a good president. and i know we have theological differences, but we have a shared concern over this country and a shared set of values that i believe will help get america back on track and i think value voters are beginning to see that. >> no republican has won the white house without winning ohio. what kind of operation do social conservatives have in place in battleground states like ohio where our latest nbc news maris poll shows mitt romney is now

behind by seven points in ohio. what does he have to do to win that state? >> i don't want to give away all the secrets, but you're right, ohio is an important state. in 2008, you had a lot of folks that stayed home because they simply weren't excited about john mccain and they didn't know that much about barack obama. they kind of liked what he had to say about the hope and change. that's not the case this time. i think what you're going to see is a better comparison to 2004 where you had people come out to vote who had not been voting previously and that's what's being reflected in the polls. it's people who voted last time. those folks that did not vote are not showing up in these polls, but do i think they'll show up in the poll that counts on november the 6th. >> all right. tony perkins, family research council, always appreciate you. >> thanks, craig. good to be with you. some developing news right now. we go benghazi, libya where the u.s. government is making a big push to investigate the killing

of the u.s. annual bass door and three deaths there earlier this week. the libya president had will this to say when asked who was behind the attack. >> we have assumptions. we have some information.o say d the attack. >> we have assumptions. we have some information.say wh the attack. >> we have assumptions. we have some information. and on that information that we have, we will go after the perpetrators. >> ayman is on the phone with us. what else did the libya president have to say? >> reporter: well, really programs the most interesting information that came out about those perpetrators was that they are not all libyan and that certainly comes as a surprise. one of the things that he said was that the information the libyan authorities have is that in fact foreigners were involved in the planning and execution of this attack. and one of the reasons that

comes as a huge surprise to many is that while the libyan government has struggled to establish law and order, plaman people have exploited the security in the country and according to some that is being exploited by foreigners coming into the country to try to destabilize it. >> did he give any indication as to whether the foreigners were from the middle east or whether they were from perhaps england or where? >> reporter: he did not give any information as to the identity of the individuals. he said that it was still too early to reveal the information that the libyan authorities had temperature he can did say that it was being shared with u.s. officials. but at this particular stage, he did not identify where those foreigners were coming from. he said that attacks were part of a sinister plot targeting the united states specifically to carry out revenge against the u.s. for its policies and it citizens. but he did not elaborate as to

the identity of the individuals. he said that would be made public in due course. >> what's the situation on the ground there in benghazi right now? >> reporter: benghazi is relativeliky either and calm. the people here have been really shocked and saddened. yesterday there was a vigil in support of the united states denouncing the terrorist attacks against the u.s. embassy and also expressing solidarity and sympathy for ambassador stevens. he was an individual widely respected, very well-known mopping the people of benghazi. and no doubt that the overwhelming majority of the people have been speaking at an official and unofficial level have been shocked and saddened by his death. they say the attack does not represent libya nor the libyan people. >> ayman, we'll get more of your report tonight on "nightly news." be safe, my friend. >> reporter: thank you, craig. tough transition here. snookie. yes, snooki.

what does she have to do you with mitt romney's run for president? we'll tell you all about that in our trail mix. that's right after this. with the spark cash card from capital one, sven's home security gets the most rewards of any small business credit card! how does this thing work? oh, i like it! [ garth ] sven's small business earns 2% cash back on every purchase, every day! woo-hoo!!! so that's ten security gators, right? put them on my spark card! why settle for less? testing hot tar... great businesses deserve the most rewards! [ male announcer ] the spark business card from capital one. choose unlimited rewards with 2% cash back or double miles on every purchase, every day! what's in your wallet? here's your invoice.

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no need to get nasty. here's your "honk if you had an affair with taylor" yard sign. looks good. [ male announcer ] fedex office. now save 50% on banners. it's no secret the obama scamp wants mitt romney's taxes made public, but there is a bigger story behind that, a story about how the issue of secrecy affects both sideses in a presidential race. good afternoon to you, sir. >> thanks for having me. >> we're talking secrecy here? >> yeah, we're talking secrecy. i will break it down for you. basically the obama camp says that mitt romney's refusal to release more than two years of tax returns shows what david axelrod has called a pension for secrecy. this week the obama campaign released a new ad hammering at the issue.

>> to pay for new huge tax breaks for millionaires like him, romney would have to raise tax on the middle class. $2,000 for a family with children says a nonpartisan report. you could lose the deduction for your home mortgage, college tuition, health care. how much would you pay? romney just won't say. >> now, romney has called the request for his taxes a political distraction. however, he's never turned the tables. if you look at the record of both candidates, they are keeping a lot of secrets. obama who got elect order a pledge to bring transparency to washington says, however, that's exactly what he did as president. >> we have put this place the toughest ethics laws and you have teoughest transparency ruls of any administration in hist y history. by the way, since the founding of the country where all of you can find out who visits the white house.

first time in history. >> but on other key policy questions, the obama administration has cut access to government information. and it now spending over $11 billion on secrecy, be an all-time high. the president has instructed his lawyers to defend some of the broadest determinations of secrecy powers. foek, t for example, the drone program. a recent freedom of information request asks how it's used to kill suspected terrorists, butt administration argues it shouldn't have to say whether the program exists. as their lawyers put it in court, the government can, quote, neither confirm nor deny the existence or nonexistence of drone killings. of course they say they're a successful tool against al qaeda and reduce death tolls seen in larger strikes. but there's no way to tell if that's true. and drone attacks are authorized by another secret, a 2010 lem opinion from the doj.

some did thats have called for that to be released, but president obama has refused. so while both sides should obviously be a bit more open, i think it's clear that the obama camp is betting it can win with the politics of asymmetric sunlight. disclosure for the challenger, but secrecy for the incumbent. >> this question of secrecy, this is a question that has come up a lot over the past few decades in this country. executive power and the limits of that power. let me play devil's advocate for a second here. shouldn't you have a layer of secrecy as the commander in chief? >> absolutely. and when you look at things like the targeted killings program, no one is saying that they should release the names of the future targets or who is doing the killings on the ground. those are secret military matters. but as i mentioned, when you talk about the legal authority, what power does the president have to kill, for example,

americans under the constitution in sn that's something that obamaify with the past administration, but not with himself. we want to understand the legality for the operations. >> all right, we should note here you will be back, i want to talk to you and some of the other panelists about your recent article on youtube banning the playing of that video that has helped create so much violence. >> i'll stick around. >> yes, please do. up next, paul ryan back in his old stormistomping grounds. he got quite the hero's welcome, but did he truly save the day? congress still facing a loomi i fiscal cliff. what to do about it is up next. does your phone give you all day battery life ?

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the white house is warning about the dangers of steep cuts to the military and domestic promis programs in congress cannot find a way of automatic spending cuts to kick in by the end of the year. the report leaves no question that the sequestration would be deeply destructive to national security, domestic investments and core government functions. let'sb bring back our panel in. bob cusack, edward, and katherine, good afternoon. thanks for sticking around. edward, fifgiven the deadly violence in the middle east, is there any chance here that lawmakers will have a sense of urgency to do something about these steep cuts he is especial those for the military? >> they've been looming for a long time and they haven't done anything yet, so i don't think

we're looking at anything this week that would change about that. there isn't even an agreement that there would be an agreement. john boehner has said he doesn't think there will be an agreement. which prompted harry reid to say i'm sorry john boehner has to say. they're arguing over the fact that they're arguing. >> katherine, for folks who don't follow politics as closely as we do, what gives? like how did we get to this point and if we don't come up with a solution, what happens? >> so what happened was last year there were these discussions about how to address the country's longer term fiscal problems which chiefly had to do with medicare, by the way. and so there was this agreement that said, okay, we'll have this committee that comes together and they'll come up with some sort of plan. and if congress does not vote in that plan by december of last year, armageddon will happen. we'll have this fiscal scenario

that is so objectionable to both sides, both because they'll be major cuts to defense and discretionary spending, things like food stamps, for example. it will be so objectionable that we are going to have to agree on some sort of -- some sort of real plan. but what happened was congress still could not get its act together. >> they grossly underestimated their own political cowardest. >> exactly. so this trigger that they figured would be so threatening to both sides still ended up kicking in and as a as a result we're in the situation we're in today. >> bob, what's the hold up? >> i think they're waiting for the election. congress is very good at kicking the can down the road. i think they'll do it again even after the election. you could have both sides here, let's say obama wins a second term and the congress goes republican. both sides will claim victory. so that's what they're saying we can't do anything until the people have spoken. but i'm not real optimistic and neither are members of congress

that there will be some type of grand deal spruk by tstruck by end of this year. maybe 2013. but congress is not very good at doing one thing. now they have to do a slew of things. the debt ceiling, cut to medicare doctors, pentagon cuts. so much to do in a short amount of time. >> so if they don't avoid the fiscal cliff totally, what might we see? could we see some type of piece meal deal here? >> i think you'll see a piece meal deal that will punt it into 2013. but the credit rating agency, they could downgrade the nation's credit rating again. >> just about all government workers will be affected by the automatic cuts. everyone except, wait for it, congress. lawmakers apparently are exempt. so that means lawmakers will still get there $174,000 plus a year salary despite not coming up with a way to avoid the fiscal cliff. what will that do to their approval rating which is already at a historic low? >> i'm not sure there's a lot of

water to keep draining out of that pool. i think we're at 9% at this point. so, sure, dhee lose a few percentage points. but when you're at 9%, it's pretty clear the country is unhappy with what congress is doing. that said, none of that has motivated any of the people involved in this to even get to the table and start talking about it. so the approval ratings are not there in a way that one would hope that they would be there for our elect officials, but they're not doing anything to the elected officials to change their minds about what's happening. >> katherine, on top of these concerns, there's the immediate worry about unemployment. here's ben bernanke. take a listen. >> the employment situation, however, remains a grave concern. while the economy appears to be on a path of moderate recovery, it isn't growing fast enough to make significant progress reducing the unemployment rate. >> fed chairman earlier this week. the fed announcing extra ordinary new steps to boost the job market. trying to make it cheap foreconsumers and businesses to

borrow and spend. how should this help? >> the thought is that if they closer interest rates enough, and bear in mind that they are already at sort of like basement levels, that people will start borrowing again, they'll start spending again, and that will kick start some more economic activity. the problem is that you already have mortgage rates at record lows. you already have all sorts of interest rates across the board at record lows. and if those aren't getting businesses to borrow and invest in their workforce and everything else, then it's not totally clear that pushing them a little bit further down will make that much of a difference. >> and here's another thing. especially when you start fwauk mo talking about mortgage rates, there are a lot of folk wlos don't have the credit scores and can't come up with the down payments to qualify forget these home loans. >> right. banks have all retrenched. they overlent during the boom years, during the credit bubble.

and now they're all the a litir scared to make a bad loan. so even though they can borrow money at very, very low rates, they're still reluctant to actually lend out that hone again to potential consumers and businesses. >> bob, does this move by the fed have the potential to affect the presidential race? >> i think it does. the fed is now very much politicized. ben bernanke will not be serving in a romney administration. so he's probably rooting for obama to win. and seniors are not happy. so you have people like the stock market really likes what bernanke it, republicans don't. romney says it's printing money. there's so much politics at the fed right now and i don't think that's going to change anytime soon. >> bob, edward isaac, and katherine, thank you also very much for spending so much of your saturday with us. coming up, where the

candidates are going next week and what that tells us about where they believe the keys to the white house are hidden. also a new study says new voter i.d. laws could help a quarter million young people, could keep them away from the polls. details on that study straight ahead. and a little bit later, what ann romney saw when she went exploring during a trip tole bush xliii white house. it will shock you. this country was built by working people. the economy needs manufacturing. machines, tools, people making stuff. companies have to invest in making things. infrastructure, construction, production. we need it now more than ever. chevron's putting more than $8 billion dollars back in the u.s. economy this year. in pipes, cement, steel, jobs, energy. we need to get the wheels turning. i'm proud of that. making real things... for real. ...that make a real difference. ♪

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