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with a total value of $8,000. hurry in before they're all gone! thanks for sticking with us for the next hour. i'm craig melvin. you're watching msnbc, the mace for politics. sheer what is happening right now. paul ryan just wrapped up a town hall event in orlando, florida. it's his second event in the sunshine state today. moments ago he took aim at president obama, saying his policies are to blame for the increase in the national debt. >> in 2009, when the president took over, your share of the debt was $35,000 for every single person. over $16,000 more per person has been added to our debt. so every person's share of our national debt is now $51,000. >> vice president biden has just concluded his second event in new hampshire this afternoon. he went after mitt romney's plan to cut the highest marginal tax rate from 35 to 25%.

>> wealthy people and very wealthy people are just as patriotic as poor people. they're just as committed to america as poor people. but the one thing they don't need and they'll tell you they don't need is another tax cut. and some good news for all the campaign workers out there. your work seems to be paying off. surprising new signs that voters from both parties are actually getting excited about the election. details on that story and a whole lot more coming up in this hour. president obama arrived in milwaukee, wisconsin, an hour or so again. he will begin his trip in that battleground state with the fundraiser. later, mr. obama will address voters at a grassroots event exactly one month before early voting begins there. nbc's mike vacqera joins me. blasting the president say he has ignored the state for 222 days even as he has racked up the national debt.

what is the thinking behind president obama's visit today? >> he wants to win wisconsin, it's as simple as that. if you look at the map, it's one of the nine states we identify here at nbc news as the battleground, or toss-upstates if you will. this not withstanding the president took wisconsin from john mccain by six percentage points four years ago. folks think it's going to be a lot closer to the situation back in '04, craig, when president bush ran against john kerry and there was a difference of not six points, but 4/10. the president has not spent money on the air. the race has tightened up somewhat. some of that can be attributed to the fact that their native son, paul ryan who is from an area just south of milwaukee, janesville, wisconsin, has been running strong there. but all that notwithstanding, our latest paul, the nbc news/"wall street journal" poll shows the president has a

five-point lead and has reached the threshold of 50%, 50% to 45% according to the latest poll. the president now addressing some of the concerns in wisconsin. a lot of his supporters had wanted the see him there is a senate race there that is very competitive as well. a lot of folks in wisconsin, democrats wanted to see him to get that enthusiasm going, to not only pad his numbers, but help democrats throughout the state. >> what do you suspect we will hear from president obama today in wisconsin? >> you know, i think we're going to hear a little bit more of that back and forth over the 47%. the president is probably not quite ready to let that rest. he is going to get his jabs in. they have been very effective. and then there is that whole inside/outside thing. remember the president at a forum for spanish language television the other day said i found out over the course of the last four years they can't change washington from the inside. and that drew some fire from paul ryan there has been a lot of back and forth. you can expect the president to stick to his guns on that, hit back at romney and ryan on change in washington. craig? >> nbc from the white house this

afternoon, vick, thanks. meantime, the romney campaign is also looking at wisconsin this week. ann romney made a stop at marquette university in milwaukee. she made it clear she is very optimistic about winning the badger state. >> do you know what i think? i think we can carry wisconsin. [ cheering ] >> i want to bring in perry bacon jr., an msnbc contributor, and jason stein, reporter for the milwaukee journal sentinel. and author of the 2011 fight over union laws in wisconsin. good afternoon to both of you gentlemen. perry, let me start with you. three polls out this week from wisconsin, three polls. nbc news, "wall street journal" has the president ahead by about five points. quinnipiac up by 6. marquette university has the president leading by 14 point there's. this race as close as ann romney and others on the right would

like to believe? >> no. right now president obama would certainly win this state, probably by five points, probably more than that if you look at all the polling. that said, we know in a big election in earlier this year, the republicans can win there because scott walker won the big recall election. so you know there is republican sentiment there and it's pretty strong. and romney has to figure out how to tap into that in the same way walker did earlier in the year. >> jason, you're on the ground there. what does mitt romney have to do to tap into some of that? >> well, you know, one thing that was interesting was that governor walker yesterday was talking on the conservative radio show, said he wanted to see more of paul ryan on the campaign trail, not just in wisconsin, but in other places, sort of echoing that comment you've heard from other conservative leaders in the country that they want to see more passion on policy, you know, more talk about what governor walk worry see as

reforms. he says he can connect with voters that way. >> i want to take a look quickly here at independent voters specifically in wisconsin. according to marquette, and according to that poll, the president was ahead by two point among that particular group in august. this month he is ahead by 15 point among wisconsin independents. what do you make of that? >> craig, there is two big groups to look at. there is the independent voters and also the white working class vote. scott walker won the white working class vote by 22 points in that recall. but right now and obama and romney are basically tied. they were tied among independents. and now obama is really ahead among independents. if romney can't close those two gaps, he has no chance of winning the state. it's a state where he should -- wisconsin has some of the demographics of iowa on some level and those are close states. so romney should have a chance, but he's got to close those two gaps to do so. >> jason, what don't we know -- what don't we know about

wisconsin politics? >> well, i mean, i think one thing that is really helpful to know is when scott walker won that recall election, the exiting polling said that the president would have won the election if it had been held on that same day with that same group of voters. so it's really worth remembering that voters here, you don't see ate lot anymore, but they are willing to elect different people to a statewide race, whether it's the president's electoral votes or someone else for the u.s. senate. so i mean, i think romney has got to try and reach those voters who are willing to make that transition. so far he has been unable to do it. he has had kind of a rough few weeks here in the polling, at least. >> pointed out that the president is ahead in the polls with college educated women and minorities. he writes, quote, if obama can hold that level of support from those two groups, romney could amass a national majority only by winning nearly 2/3 of all

other whites, the men with college degrees and the men and women without them. the president wants to win wisconsin, of course. but is the bigger strategy here is a fight for the white middle class voters? >> yes, it is. and so the swing vote in this election is going to end up being white middle class voters who particularly white women who have tended to favor or tend to be very divided between the two candidates. if obama can win the white woman vote, or very close to winning it, he'll almost certainly win the white house. and romney, the way things are structured right now, obama is getting about 80% of the votes of minority voters. so romney's really god to overcome that, either by closing the gap among the minority vote, or by winning white voters to about 60%. and that's going to be very, very hard to do. that's why romney was speaking this week. he needs to close those gaps, particularly if he is going to have any chance of winning. >> jason, i want to take a quick look here at the impact of wisconsin's own paul ryan, the

impact he is having on the ticket. "the wall street journal" poll looked at his favorability in that state. 49% favorable. 40% unfavorable. 11% unsure. good numbers, but not overwhelmingly positive considering he is from wisconsin. how surprised are you by that? >> you know, i can understand in the sense that he has been a congressman in one of eight congressional districts in wisconsin, and it's down in one corner. it gets some of the important milwaukee media market. but there are a lot of people in wisconsin who several months ago didn't necessarily know who paul ryan was, in spite of the fact that he is something of a national figure. so, you know, you clearly saw when he was picked, a bump in the polling for romney there was a bounce from paul ryan. but then you had the conventions come along. not a good convention for romney as far as we can tell from the polling, and that ryan bounce for the moment seems to have evaporated. >> jason stein, milwaukee

journal sentinel, thanks for your time. perry bacon jr. of the grio. gentlemen, we'd like to have you back a little bit later here in this hour if you don't mind. >> thanks, craig. the battle of the spouses in this presidential campaign. michelle obama set to address a key constituency for her husband tonight in pennsylvania. and ann romney will go late night next week. we'll tell you what show she'll be appearing on without her husband. [ male announcer ] 6 years old. then 7. going on 11. in the blink of an eye, they're all grown up. marie callender's homemade tastes are another great reason to sit down and savor every last moment. ♪ because time flies... right before your eyes. marie callender's. it's time to savor.

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with the election just 45 days away now, a new national poll finds president obama with a solid lead over republican nominee mitt romney. the allstate national journal poll found 50% of those polled would vote for the president.

43% would vote for governor romney. the survey found that support for the president is comparable to 2008 levels among minorities, young people, and upscale white women. but are voters excited about the election? a gallup poll of voters in swing states found enthusiasm about voting, enthusiasm is rising, especially among democrats. 73% of democrats say they were enthusiastic, that 20% since june. 64% of republicans said they were enthusiastic. that is up 9% since june. nationally, 68% of democrats and 62% of republicans say they are excited to vote those numbers, especially among democrats are also up from june. there are the numbers there are the numbers right there. the congressional black caucus foundation is wrapping up its annual legislative conference in washington, d.c. right now. voter id laws and voter turnout have been top items on the conference agenda.

first look at michelle obama is expected to address that gathering at its dinner tonight. it will be the first time a first lady will deliver the keynote address. mrs. obama has been active in efforts to ensure that african-american voters turn out on election day. congressman gregory meeks, a democrat from new york is a member of the congressional black caucus. he joins me live now frommed with. congressman, good afternoon to you. >> good being with you, craig. >> a key issue in the presidential race, of course, unemployment. the national rate just over 8%. the unemployment rate, though, for african-americans is above 14%. yet the president is still overwhelmingly popular with black voters. earlier this week, your leader, congressman emanuel cleaveler, the chair of the cbc asked if the black community was giving president obama a pass. he said, quote, i'm supposed to say he doesn't get a pass, but i'm not going to say that. look, as the chair of the black caucus, i've got to tell you

we're always hesitant to criticize the president. congressman, is the president getting a pass from black voters? >> no, i don't think he is getting a pass. i think black voters realize when they look at the record of president obama and the things that he has accomplished compared to what would have been if mccain was president or would be if romney is president that by far the president barack obama is better for the black community and better for america. not just the black community. now you said it. you're right. unemployment numbers are high for african-americans, and we've got to bring it down. and i think that what the president has done, you know, people forget. and that's what the miracle of the charlotte convention was to get from where we were. we were losing, and we were losing a whole lot of jobs, especially when you talk about teachers and police officers and firefighters, many who are african-american. the president saved those jobs. and you know, some talk about obama care, and i love that word, because obama does care what it means for the african-american community to have health care where they didn't visit before.

it's important to them. so they know that we've got a listening ways to go. but they know that the president has been doing the kinds of things that are important to them to make their lives better. >> i'm sure the pennsylvania supreme court's decision on voter id this week has been a major focus at the cbc gathering. given all the news about the efforts to block the vote in various states this campaign season, how do you fight the temptation among some voters to just stay home given all the challenges they might face at the polls? >> what we do is remind them of what shoulders they stand on. individuals died so that they would stand on line and fight for the right to vote. and we cannot allow someone to take away that right. it's just amazing to me when you think about pennsylvania being one of those states and ohio being another state. >> true. >> i was listening to someone earlier today. those are the states where pennsylvania, for quakers, for giving individuals the right to vote to make what sure that

everybody can participate. we got to make sure we understand that history and make that become the determining factor. make us more determined that we're going to go out to vote and make sure that we're prepared to do what we have to do so no one can turn us back when you go to vote on election day. it's tremendously important because too many people fought for us to have that right to vote. >> black women and their efforts to get out the vote are a big focus at your convention right now. i understand the numbers are pretty remarkable. 69% of eligible black female voters actually voted in 2008. that's a higher proportion than white women. we hear about voter enthusiasm lagging compared to 2008. how do you get those women back out there voting in november? what do you do? >> look, that's going to happen. people -- i know you compared to 2008. but remember that in 2008, it was first a primary. on the democratic side, that got people involved and got people motivated and moving. and then you went to a general

election. it should have been if this was something that was going to be different, republicans should have been building. but america is not there. now that the conventions are over and we're now focused on the elections in november, and people are looking at the two candidates, not at primaries or anything of that nature, they're looking at the two finalists, they're getting excited about voting again because they look at the record of mitt romney or what mitt romney wants to talk about what he wants to do, whenever he makes up his mind because he goes back and forth, and it's so confusing, and they look at the accomplishments of barack obama and they get excited about the opportunity to get to the polls again because they know this election may be even more important than the one in 2008. >> all right. congressman gregory meeks, new york congressman. congressman, thank you so much. appreciate your time, sir. >> my pleasure. good being with you, craig. a rocker is taking on mitt romney over his 47% comments, and he is making it personal. and up next, i'm going to give

you a sneak peek at a very cool project i've got in the works for education nation. i have four words to describe it. watch out, donald trump. you're watching msnbc. bob... oh, hey alex. just picking up some, brochures, posters copies of my acceptance speech. great! it's always good to have a backup plan, in case i get hit by a meteor. wow, your hair looks great. didn't realize they did photoshop here. hey, good call on those mugs. can't let 'em see what you're drinking. you know, i'm glad we're both running a nice, clean race. no need to get nasty. here's your "honk if you had an affair with taylor" yard sign. looks good. [ male announcer ] fedex office. now save 50% on banners.

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educationnation.com/innovation. it's educationnation.com/innovation. some really cool ideas. education nation, the week-long event kicking off tomorrow with the student town hall, hosted by melissa harris perry. that's at 10:00 a.m. eastern right here on msnbc. that will be followed by the third annual teacher town hall hosted by nbc's brian williams. that's at noon eastern. brian williams doing the teacher town hall. ms. perry doing the student town hall. make sure to tune in tuesday when we hear from both president obama and governor romney as they describe their education plans for america. time once again for a helping from our trail mix. and we start with hammer time on capitol hill. [ applause ] a bipartisan photo op turned playful in d.c. when john

boehner brought the hammer down in front of nancy pelosi, which you can see actually made the house minority leader jump. the obvious political jump was during his lawmakers drove nails to commemorate the construction of the 2012 inaugural platform. mitt romney's wife will sit down with jay leno this week. ann romney set to chat with nbc's tonight show host tuesday in her first late-night appearance. her husband's already been on the show four times. and speaking of mitt, singer eddie vetter telling rolling stone magazine, he calls the candidate's recent comments about 47% of america, he said they were, quote, upsetting and dismissive. the pearl jam frontman says a government program actually helped him get work as a security guard at a petroleum company, a job that he says helped him finance his dream of becoming a musician. and vice president joe biden making an unscheduled stop at the airport diner in manchester, new hampshire, where he scooted into a booth to talk to patrons there. he also explained a joke that he made in august at a similar

diner in ohio about having greek heritage. >> he said they tell me you're greek. when i sat down at the table, they were all looking at me and they made fun because i sat down and there were three older greek men there. and i said my name is joe bideopoulos, joking, because he had just said that. he played it like brian is pretending to be greek. >> he should have a reality show. and whoopi goldberg lashing out for mitt romney as criticizing her and the show as sharp-tongued and not conservative. quote, i once had a great deal of respect for you and many of your stances. well, the man i was talking about the man who flushed his ideals down the drain only to emerge as a confused candidate. that's whoopi on mitt romney on twitter. up next, change is in the air. we're going to explain what is behind the rhetoric that you've

heard from the president and mitt romney and change from insider/outsider washington. you are watching msnbc, even on saturday afternoon, the place for politics. hmm, it says here that cheerios helps lower cholesterol as part of a heart healthy diet. that's true. ...but you still have to go to the gym. ♪ the one and only, cheerios

i'm craig melvin. here is a quick look at some of the stories making news right now. police in new york city now say a 25-year-old man was not trying to kill himself when he jumped into the tiger den at the bronx zoo. instead they say he wanted to, quote, become one with the tiger. despite being mauled by the 400-pound cat, the man could now also be facing be facing criminal charges. three survivors of the colorado movie theater shooting are suing the theater owners. it's the first civil lawsuit following the massacre, which left 12 people dead. and pakistani newspapers are

now banned across the boarder in afghanistan. officials are calling the papers, quote, anti-government propaganda. 45 days until the election. and as we head fast into the fall, there is talk of change on the campaign trail where both candidates are tussling about it. in interesting ways. it is a topic on the mind of msnbc contributor and nation correspondent, ari melber. he is here to tell us about it on this saturday afternoon. good day to you, sir. >> good day, thank you, craig. presidential candidates are fighting over change this week. it all started with this. >> i've learned some lessons over the last four years. and the most important lesson i've learned is that you can't change washington from the inside. you can only change it from the outside. that's how i got elected. and that's how the big accomplishments like health care got done, was because we mobilized the american people to speak out. >> romney pounced on that one.

he cast the line as a confession that obama had actually given up on reforming washington. . >> the president today threw in the white flag of surrender again. he said he can't change washington from inside, he could only change it from outside. well, we're going to give him that chance in november. he is going outside. >> now that is a pretty superficial rebuttal. in reality, neither party expects legislators and lobbyists who benefit from the rules in washington to rewrite them. and romney even said so on the trail. conservatives have built several efforts, including the pea party to change washington from the outside. so president obama did have the right idea. big change comes from the ground up. but he did give an odd example. he claimed his health care bill demonstrated change from the outside. now if you follow that, you may remember it differently. as ezra klein reported this week, the health care fight was, quote, firmly an inside game strategy with back room deals, offers to sway legislators like the cornhusker kickback and the

louisiana purchase there was no grassroots army pushing congress. obama never even asked his 13 million e-mail supporters for much input on that legislation. and i don't think he asked them to confront gop obstructionists either. now the president signals he needs an outside game to get his back if he is re-elected. here is how he put it. >> something that i'd really like to concentrate on in my second term is being in a much more constant conversation with the american people so that they can put pressure on congress to help move some of these issues forward. . >> put pressure on congress. well, i think he means the republicans in congress. and i hope he means pressuring them to change the obstructionist rules that stop reform, like endless minority filibusters for bills such as the jobs act that have majority support. so while obama's memory of the health care fight may involve some revisionist history, it does sound to me that he has learned the right lesson for writing the next chapter.

craig? >> let me ask you, how much of this is about the citizenry having unrealistic expectations with regards to change? how much of this is about people in 2008 hearing it over and over and think okay, maybe this is the guy that can dramatically change washington, d.c. how much of it is about that? >> i think that, you know, usually you try to buy low and sell high. >> yeah. >> and yes, barack obama was a special politician who ran on a really big platform of change. and people got excited about it. ly busy i think when you look at what both candidates talk about in this election, obama and romney make it sound like electing them will have this catalyzing effect on washington. but if you don't deal with the fundamental reforms like what i mentioned in the congress or how we fund elections, it's hard to do that. >> one of the things that i like -- i liked a lot of what you said. but one of the things in particular about how it's unrealistic to expect people who benefit from a system to work to change the system. it's wholly unrealistic. i want to bring in some other folks and continue this

discussion. perry bacon is back, of course, perry the political editor for the giro, an msnbc contributor. and matt welch, editor-in-chief of reason magazine. matt, really good to see you on a saturday afternoon as well. thanks for being with us. >> thanks for having me. >> perry, we heard president obama say he needs the american people to put more pressure on congress to get things done. does this mean more grassroots types of events, or what is he talking about here? >> i agree with what ari said. i'm not at times exactly sure what he is talking about. grassroots help does influence -- does influence politics. that said, one of the things that the misnomer here is washington has accomplished a lot under obama's term. obama had the most accomplished first two years since lyndon johnson, the health care bill, the stimulus bill, big education reform. it's not as if nothing has happened in the last two years. and a lot of the changes that do have to happen have to happen in washington with the president

and other people convincing members of congress to vote for things that maybe aren't very popular. when the health care passed, it was not supported by the majority of americans. had almost pushed them to pass the bill. >> matt, by now a lot of folks have been talking about this, the alleged gop plan that robert draper wrote about in his book, that on the night of the president's inauguration top leaders and strategists, they huddled, they ate some steak, they drank some red wine and they plotted to block anything that president obama tried to get through. why aren't democrats out there every single day telling voters the republicans are more concerned with this president's failures than their constituents' successes? >> aren't they out there every day? >> every third or fourth day. >> the democratic convention. that message was not lost people watching there. i mean to complain about the procedures of obstruction in the system that was set up, it was built to create obstruction, to create people challenging for power.

it's ultimately pretty unsatisfying for voters. and let's not greg the context of obama's contents which is an interview of univision in which he was trying to explain under very good and sharp questioning hey, what happened to that whole immigration reform thing. and so he sort of changed the subject to what we need to change more from the outside when in fact at the time he had and the democrats had pretty strong control of what was happening in washington. so people use sort of the outside/inside game opportunis opportunistically where they need to position themselves there are a lot of groups, i think right now more on the right than the left who are trying to change washington, but their own parties, their own parties' behavior that are more copacetic to them, like the tea party and club for growth. it will be interesting to see whether a grassroots group on the left take obama up on it and push in a direction they want to go in things like the drug war. >> you listen to what matt just

said, you might have the impression that democrats just slept on immigration reform and the dream act. it dovetails what we are talking about because there was a filibuster against the dream act that had a majority of support in the senate. part of it is sheer boredom. you get in into and start using words like cloture and a lot of voters start tuning out. moo might have the message that obama was pressed on something he didn't do in fact they were thwarted from it. >> quick break, matt, when we come back, i want to pick up where you left off about the future of both parties. we heard from michael earlier about what will happen to the gop if romney loses. i want to talk to you what will happen to the democratic party if barack obama loses. that and romney's week, it was a bad one. we'll talk specifically where the campaign went wrong, where they need to go to get back on

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welcome back. we call them the brain trust. perry bacon from the grio, matt welch, and ari melber. we're not overselling that. you guys are brilliant. matt, we'll start with you. you wrote a piece calling out governor romney and the republicans for making the false link between those paying no taxes and voting democrat. we know that's false to the extent that they claim, yet conservatives defend rom anymore. rnc chairman priebus, alan west as well as some in the media as well. where have they gone wrong? >> i think the biggest problem besides just kind of inaccuracy of it is that there is a sort of nasty streak of economic determinism in there saying how much income taxes or how much income you make will determine who you vote for.

that's just not true. and it's also not the message that they were spreading at the republican national convention, where every single day they were talking about well my grandmother came here and worked really hard and then improved her life and our family's life. we were able to move upward on the scale. you change. you don't get locked into the same place forever. so there is an economic determinism there, which is very unseemly and offputting. and it also it's a pretty important point, the point i guess he was trying to make is that it's difficult to change entitlements and government goodies if a lot of people are receiving them. well, this is a true point, but it's not a democratic or a republican point. it's bipartisan, you know. medicare is one of the biggest programs in the world in the united states. and it's received by people who vote republican. so there is no partisan virtue one side or the other on the question of receiving government benefits. >> perry, the romney campaign, the republicans have accused the president, been doing it for

years now of accusing him of class warfare. it now off the table given romney's remarks and the gop's defense of those remarks? >> no. you heard romney in the days after the comment. instead of apologizing for it, kind of doubling down on it and saying i think you're going to hear more in the debates about he won't call them -- romney won't call obama the food stamp president, but he'll get close to doing that. this kind of class warfare argument from the republican side about the notion that americans don't pay income tax is something that not just mitt romney's view. paul ryan has talked about that. scott walker has talked about that. >> sure. >> he is going to come back to this issue, and it will be interesting to see how obama really contrasted and makes clear that we're all in this together. we're all paying taxes. we all pay payroll tax. that's what the next part of this argument will be. >> i want to -- i'm very fascinated, ari melber with campaign ads. have i been since i was a little boy. i asked you guys to send in your favorite so far this season. i want to start with yours. we'll play a snippet of the ad

and talk about it on the other side and why you like this one in particular so much. this is ari melber's favorite campaign ad of 2012. >> romney only released two tax returns, both from after he started running for president. he is still failing to match the precedent set by other -- >> that wasn't you. whose ad was that? which ad was that. which ad is yours? >> i'll tell you, my favorite was the basically newt gingrich superpac supported ad. >> let's cue it up. >> mitt romney became ceo of bain capital the day the company was formed. his mission to reap massive rewards for himself and his investors. >> mitt romney and them guys, they don't care who i am. >> he is for small businesses. no, he isn't. he's not. >> there have been so many you almost forget. that's winning our future superpac. that was effective. >> devastating. what is so amazing about it is

that ad from these conservatives supporting newt gingrich's candidacy looks exactly like the president's criticism and attack ads against bain and against mitt romney, which just shows you where we're at. we look at so many things through a partisan lens, but the truth is there are so many larg larger realities in this race. people concerned about jobs and employment have a very negative view of what bain and these companies did. and that's bipartisan. >> and that was a view that was shaped first by republicans in the primary battle. perry bacon, what is your favorite? >> the ron paul ad. >> the ron paul ad. >> let's cue it up and play it and talk about it on the other side. perry bacon's favorite ad of 2012. >> what's up with these sorry politicians? lots of bark. when it's show time, whimpering like little shih tzus. you want big cuts? ron paul has been screening it for years.

budget crisis? no problem. cut a trillion dollars year one. that's trillion with a t. department of education? gone. interior, energy, hud, commerce, gone. that's how ron paul rolls. >> i forgot than one. that was pretty good too. why did you like it so much? >> i like it because it's interesting. most ads are so dull. someone speaks in the cam rand and says nothing interesting. that's very compelling be. the problem, the reason you don't see ads like, that and one problem with the republicans are telling romney, a lot of republicans are saying to romney be more specific, be more detailed. there is a reason romney is not being more detailed. he is for a lot of the same cuts in the budget that ron paul was for. and the problem is those are not very popular. i mean i like -- the problem with that ad and the problem with cuts romney is proposing, most voters don't support them. romney doesn't want to talk about the details because the

details are not popular that he is offering. >> no one wants to hear any talk about the mortgage interest deduction tax even being examined adds possibly being taken off the table. matt welch, really quickly, which one is yours? >> i would like to be libertarian with me just this once by gary johnson. >> let's take a look at this obscure one. take a look. >> we the people will never agree on the small things. but let's agree on the big things. our leaders have blown it. i ask you to join me in trying something that has never been attempted before in america. let's put our parties and our differences aside one time. be libertarian with me for one election. >> i never saw that. that's a good ad. >> especially the way that the vocals or the words don't exactly link up. it remind me of a darrin aaronofsky movie.

it's funny and conspiratorial. i also like gary johnson. >> of course. >> and the vibe of the ad is not really like he is in person, which i find kind of humorous. but it's an interesting notion. just for this one election, we can stop for the rest of the elections, but for one time try a different way than you get the two parties end up governing in similar ways once they're in power. it's an interesting critique. >> stand by, matt, one second. when we come back on the other side of the break, you're going to tell what's happens if democrats lose in november. we'll get a sneak peek at the political week ahead in washington. breaking news sort of out of washington what the obama campaign is saying, and perry is going to desurvivor it after this. a lot of promises in in a little bit of time. we make a simple thing. a thing that helps you buy other things. but plenty of companies do that. so we make something else.

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a live look, milwaukee,

wisconsin. president obama said to take the stage there at about 6:30 local time. and you know what? we just got a little bit of tidbit from a senior campaign official. perry bacon, i want to get your take on this. the campaign, the obama campaign admitting that wisconsin is the only state where they have been able to see the gop ground game in action, referencing the walker recall there. this particular official says that mitt romney is much stronger in that state than john mccain ever was. do you think that the obama campaign is just blowing smoke, or do you think they're legitimately concerned, perry bac bacon? >> i think they should always be concerned. ari and i were on the plane with obama almost four years ago this date going out to wisconsin with the president. i don't think he ever returned, though, because he won the state overwhelmingly. wisconsin hasn't voted for a republican since 1984. so my sense is if obama loses wisconsin, he'll also have lost virginia, ohio, and the election.

it's just hard to see romney stronger in wisconsin because of paul ryan than four years ago. but it's very hard to see the path to winning that state for romney. >> yeah, just to jump, in i agree with perry. it is a state that should go democratic. i think what we're seeing to what craig is reporting is the obama campaign does not want people on the ground there or the national media to think of this as a firmly blue state and then get a backlash as the race tightens. and to the point about the walker recall, there are a bunch of conservative-leaning activists who have just been on the ground working hard in that state, and victoriously. it is a completely different model than other places where a little lead will gel. this can tighten. >> matt welch, really quickly, i want to get your take on something you said a few moments ago. if the democrats lose this thing in november, again, we should point out at this point that every poll we have seen over the past seven days indicates that is not likely. but if it does happen, what happens to the democratic party,

matt welch? >> it depends on how they lose. i think that the overwhelming response would be, and i agree, that they probably won't lose, but would be to blame citizens united for putting money and politics. i think there will be some blame of racism or voter suppression. i don't think there is going to be a long navel gazing that you saw in the wake of 2004 after john kerry lost. the party really had more of a gut check back then. but if he loses for instance because marijuana legalization is on the ballot in colorado and it wins and those people vote for gary johnson and not obama, granted, this is all pretty far-fetched, if something like that happens they might start paying attention. >> glad we got pot in there. >> oh, great. you're giving gary johnson more air time today than he has gotten in the past three weeks, three months i should say, if not three years. matt welch, thanks. before we go, matt, ari, perry bacon as well down in d.c., i appreciate you spending so much time. i don't want to ruin the magic of television here. matt welch right across the

studio. we just didn't have resume for him at the desk. ari melber said you have to work your way over. you have to earn this. >> at the kids table, that's fine. i understand. >> that does it for me. we'll see you back here tomorrow after "meet the press." we should note "meet the press" tomorrow morning, who do we have, governor duval of massachusetts, we'll see you back here tomorrow afternoon. thanks for joining us on a saturday. i even wrote a play about that. my symptoms were a pain in my abdomen and periods that were heavier and longer than usual for me. if you have symptoms that last two weeks or longer, be brave, go to the doctor. ovarian and uterine cancers are gynecologic cancers. symptoms are not the same for everyone. i got sick...and then i got better. oh, hey alex. just picking up some, brochures, posters copies of my acceptance speech. great! it's always good to have a backup plan,

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