msnbc takes you into a world of chaos and danger. now, the scenes you have never seen. lock up raw. ♪ >> the lucky ones find ways to cope with it. >> you have to find something to fill up whatever void you have. >> others are haunted by it.

>> it still bothers me a whole lot. each to talk about it. >> for some, the past can return with a vengeance. >> he told me they are coming. they are going to cut all the tattoos that are related and take my life. >> at a typical lock up shoot, we may interview up to 100 inmates that came to terms with their lives and don't care about the past or the future. every once in a while we will meet an inmate and the futility of the past catches up with them and a light comes on and they realize they have to change. >> behind the walls, inmates have plenty of times to think about the consequences of their actions. some like ronnie shepherd turned

to other activities to fill time. >> i remember walking by ronnie's cell and looking through the bars and seeing the paint all over the walls. i thought this is different. >> i got bored the other day. i painted my cell different. i wanted it to be red so it looked like the walls were bleeding. but it's black. it looks all right. >> after two decades in prison, he had less than three years left on a group of convictions from armed bank robbery. he dreamed of opening a tattoo parlor while he ran an illisit one on the inside. >> this is the studio. depends on what you are getting. if you are getting your back done, i have you lay down.

. >> ronnie turned his ability to do tattoo work into a business. he had a list of clientele and he had all the materials he needed. he kept track of everybody's schedule. he was a walking billboard for his own tattoo artistry. >> i have all kinds of crap on me. devils and vikings and reapers and clowns and castles. pretty much got every color you with think of. blue, black, red and yellow. lime green and no matter what it is you want done, i can do it. you aren't decided on what it is you want. these are all tattoo patterns and vikings, jesus, cars, evan prison you can think of, i have. i have seven to ten-day wait. i look at the calendar and the

first chance i can get you in, is that cool with you? if it is, i put your name down. >> it was interesting to talk to ronnie. in prison, everybody gets tattoos. even though it's illegal in every prison, somehow they manage often times to get away with it. he would only show us certain things because he didn't want to get caught. >> i don't have the gun out right now because of the lockdown. i don't think if they will shake me down. they are not going to take my inks because i can order them out of catalogs. i will just reorder them. the only way they would is if they found the gun. i got it put up. >> like where? >> a good hiding spot that they never found it in. i would show you, but then they would know where it's at. >> like most prison ink, some of his own tattoos tell a story. in this case it's about his past membership in a white supremacist gang. >> i'm retired.

i am no longer there, but i still have the tattoos. retired is no longer with them, but you were honorable when you left. the first chance i get, i am going to cover it up. i don't want them. that was me, but i'm done with it. i'm done. it's over. i'm just me now. accept it or don't. >> 'did you leave? >> because it's not the life i want. >> the life shepherd claimed to want was still deeply entangled in the life he used to v. the next time we saw him, he said his former gang sent him a message. they were not accepting his retirement. >> another guy comes up to the cell and hands me a knife.

i don't think nothing of it. i put it up. here, hold this or hold that. he told me be ahead because we are coming for you. he told me that you are coming. they will cut all the tattoos off that are aryan-related and take my life. >> not long after, they found it and confiscated it. >> it's a small knife that is easy to conceal that has a good edge. it has a good magnet on the side so they can hide it and stash it about anywhere they want to up on the light fixture and they can grab it and use it real quick. >> if they were coming today, why do you think they would?

>> that's just being noble. part of being aryan is being noble. you have to have a nobility about yourself. why are you going to sneak up behind somebody? there is nothing noble about that. it may not come today or tomorrow or next month or next year, but it's coming. you don't know who it's coming from. >> is that calculated? you don't know when, but you know it's coming? >> it's more of a mind [ bleep ]. this is what's going to happen. it ain't going to happen in five minutes or right now. maybe not tomorrow or next week or next month. maybe a year later. but we told you. it's coming. >> coming up, officials find a temporary solution for ronnie shepherd's dilemma. >> this is a dungeon.

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after 20 years of incarceration, ronnie shepherd was down to his last 900 days at indiana state prison. ironically, those 900 days might be tougher than the preceding 20 years. after discovering the white supremacist gang shepherd dropped out of had ordered a hit on him, they decided to move him to a temporary cell for the weekend. >> i moved to rtu. you understand what rtu is? it's a residential treatment unit temporarily until they find somewhere to put you. >> to protect him, they decided to move him to a housing unit segregated from the ynl population until they can find a more permanent solution such as a transfer to another prison. >> here said he was not going to tell him where i am at.

>> this will go in. >> shepherd will be placed on key lock status, a measure meant to develop inmates, but in this case it's to protect him. it means he will be locked in his cell 23 hours a day. allowed out for a shower or supervised rec time. >> this is like a dungeon in a dungeon. >> that's the price you pay before you either kill somebody or get killed. >> ronnie's story was not an unusual one for us to encounter. we will start following somebody's situation and it could go in another direction. these guys have to not only face the consequences of the actions outside the prison, but they often have to deal with them inside prison as well.

>> while they developed a plan for his safety, we were allowed to give him a video camera to record a personal diary. >> this cell that i am currently in is not really very nice to be in. >> stretch my arm out. if you see my arms to my elbow, one elbow. basically one arm length long is the cell. >> it wasn't long before his thoughts returned to the white supremacist gang he once belonged to. now it turned on him. >> i want to take this in order for me to go home. i'm willing to endure it. put me in here. lock my door.

leave me alone. i'm going home. whoever don't like it, i don't care. tough [ bleep ]. i'm going home. that's it. period. why would i let you kill me or do something dumb. do something to you over something dumb. >> he met to discuss his safety and the possibility of transferring to another prison. >> how is everything since you have been up here. >> solitary confinement really. if that's what i have to deal with, that's what i am going to do. i will put 900 days and if it takes me staying in the cell until i go home to avoid the craziness out there and do this or do that or end up having this done to you, then keep all that.

i'm going home. >> okay. i go with internal affairs and make sure the paperwork gets done appropriately. we will work on making sure that you get adjusted to what you need. if you need anything or something happens, let me know right away. >> all right. >> okay. thanks. >> he has a legitimate concern. i would say he will get protective custly and do the rest of the time on protective custody in the prison. >> some people can say you are soft or a coward or you are a punk [ bleep ]. whatever they want to say. i don't care. those are words. i don't care. just wait until monday and see what they want to do. hopefully they will move me to somewhere that you don't have to worry about anything. i'm going home.

if they don't, i don't know. monday i guess. >> the last time we checked on ronnie, he was safe. he is still fearful that there could be retaliation in the future. >> i'm not going to lay around in here. kill me over something stupid. because somebody wants to save face or look good or get rank or get their color. whatever. come on, man. grow up. i'll send you a postcard. >> coming up -- >> being here with my gender status as far as a male institution is touch and go with trying to just find somebody

that will want my celly. >> a bang ganger and a transgender find common ground. this story took an unexpected turn. do you measure happiness? by the armful? by the barrelful? the carful? how about...by the bowlful? campbell's soups give you nutrition, energy, and can help you keep a healthy weight. campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do.

>> i just feel crazy right here. >> when are we visited corcoran for extended stay, we came upon clarence lee as he was moving into a new cell with an old friend from the neighborhood. a place he may never see again. lee was a veteran of the street gang and serving the life sentence for attempted murder. the majority of inmates belonged to him. >> welcome to our casa. >> the old friend who preferred to be called terry was in a distinct minority. >> going to school together.

i have no problem sitting here. i have no problem doing whatever. i became a human. i understand. to others it seems like we are more than homeys. they don't understand how long i have been here. >> terry was a very overt transgender inmate. then we meet clarence who comes off as this very strong straight-looking guy. because terry was constantly running into problems with his cellmates, he needed protection for lack of a better word. clarence was willing to offer that. they characterize as two old friends. >> home sweet home. >> we all grow. he would like a hang out spot.

i am smoking and shooting dies and he would come over and say harry who are is your friend right here. he hooks us up with his friends. he starred looking more and more like his girlfriends. >> he was serving time for felony prostitution and convinced she a woman inside a man's body. >> my gender status as far as a male institution is touch and go, but trying to just find somebody that would want to be my celly without the criticism. >> was it trendy? the satchel? >> you live in my cell. do this or do that. they try to take advantage television and don't look at me as a person.

the person that i would get to. >> there was a time in his life where he wouldn't have been so accepting. >> years ago i was still young. i wouldn't be sitting here. i was stuck in the image. >> i was into the gang banging scene. i was caught up. >> lee's childhood neighborhood was riddled with gangs and he joined up when he was barely in his teens. >> listening to my family, i knew everything. running with the wrong crowd and i put my homeys with my family. homeys this and homeys that. >> lee said despite being shot times and serving a prior sentence, he wouldn't give up gang life. then his story took a turn. it had to do with recruiting his younger brother into the gang. >> i was growing up and i never thought i would get past 21 or

so. i wanted my brother to get the same respect. when i'm gone, i probably get the same respect with the bullying. trying to just run over him on the family. nowhere near my thoughts what's going to happen to him. while lee was locked up, his brother decided to turn his back on gang life. on the streets, attempting to leave your gang could leave to a death sentence. >> he walked and shot him and robbed him. left him there. my mom had to see that. that's the worst thing a parent can see is their own child laying there like that. she tried to wake him up. my mother and my sifter and little brother and grandma. tried to wake him up. he was already gone. >> lee said at first he couldn't believe his own gang could be responsible. >> the truth came out. that ripped my heart out.

i caught him everything i could teach him, but i never got to watch him. i went and straightened up for a few years. even now up to this day, it's hard to believe my little brother is gone. i write letters to him and christmas i write letters to him. >> what do you say? >> i apologize and just talk to him. i talk to him and it's like maybe i am helping myself in a way to ease the pain. it's a deep pain. sometimes it's real deep. >> if i can get my life right now for my brother to come back, i would do it in a heartbeat. i live my life here. it's not possible so the only

thing i can do, i'm always apologizing until the day i die. i know it's my fault. like a dagger in me all day. >> clarence never left his gang and he struggled with the desire to avenge his brother's death. if the man who killed his brother ever came to prison, what he would do. >> my brother, i ask myself that all the time. i try to weigh the options. i talk to my family about it. my brother tried to tell me don't even worry about it n. a way that makes my mad because i feel like she went soft on me. i don't know how i would control myself. i hope i do the right thing, but i don't know. i really, really don't know.

>> coming up -- >> my first impression of lawrence is that he doesn't fit. >> i didn't kill nothing. >> an inmate attempts to deal with a murderous past. come tog, one thing you can depend on is that these will come together. delicious and wholesome. some combinations were just meant to be. tomato soup from campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do. ♪ home of the brave. ♪ it's where fear goes unwelcomed... ♪ and certain men... find a way to rise above. this is the land of giants. ♪ guts. glory. ram.

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>> most of the old timers we interview in prison have learned how to deal with the consequences of their past. you come up with distractions to take their mind off of their crimes, but sometimes our very presence can change all of that. >> lawrence spent the last two decades in prison. most of it at the holman correctional facility in alabama. sometimes it seems to have been just as long since he heard the sound of his real name. >> they call me red top and red. >> is there one you prefer? >> no. i just answer to them all. i learned to answer to them all. >> he began serving a sentence 28 years earlier when he was just 22 years old. >> back when i first came here,

there was a lot of violence. >> was it scary? >> scared to death. >> my first impression of lawrence is that he doesn't fit. he didn't fit in those surroundings. that's initially what brought us to him. he looked meek with the red hair and the glasses and more like a college professor versusage inmate. >> the social system is totally different and nothing like the free world. a totally different world. it's like living in japan and not knowing japanese. you are lost. that's how i would be now if i got out. i would be lost. >> due to a fatal action he took as a much younger man, it is unlikely he will ever get out. in 1981, he was convicted for the murders of two grocery store

employees. stall claims he was high on pcp when he and a codefendant intercepted them on the way to the bank. >> we're picked them up and took them to a wooded area and they were killed. >> how did they die? >> they got shotgunned. they were shot. >> their confessions, both stall and his codefendant claimed the other had pulled the trigger. in the end they each received life sentences. stall's sentence seemed to go beyond what was handed down. >> it's not something i like to talk about a lot. i can talk about it more now, but it still bothers me a whole lot even today. yeah. in fact just talking about it, i don't know if i can. i don't know if i can do this. >> for me, lawrence stall was a

rare experience doing lock up. he truly and genuinely seemed remorseful about his crime. >> talking about it has got me shaking. >> he such a difficult time talking about it that it was a little surprising to me. >> it's something you never get over. i was the type i didn't even hunt. i didn't kill nothing. i was john denver all the way. i think about it often. i do. but to live in here i have to put it out of my mind. it's the only way to deal with it. the only way i can deal with it. >> interesting to watch how lawrence chose to deal with the vast amount of time he had to serve. he was involved in the leather shop and he also had these little rocks on to which he would paint these intricate and elaborate things. >> i will put that mountain

scene right here on the back of this purple mountain's majesty. it's time consuming. but it is tedious. >> everything was very tiny. so the amount of time and focus and energy it took him to do each one of the rocks must have been immense. >> i'm going to do yoda on one of them for a friend of mine. >> though he looked for interactions in prison, he wasn't completely unwilling to face the consequences of his actions. during our stay at holman, he decided to participate in a victims empathy class that the prison conducts for those convicted of murder. though the guest speaker was no no way connected to stall's victim, she may as well have been. >> we are honored to have pat with us and she is a surviving victim of a really horrible crime. her daughter's name is peyton

and her daughter was murdered eight years ago. i have to tell all of you, i didn't know how i would feel about being here today. she was 23. at noon she went to her house to let out her puppy dog and go back to work. someone had broken into her apartment. and there all of his rage came out. she fought. she fought very hard. her body was bruised. he left her tied up. he left. and peyton was able to escape and freed herself. she was almost downstairs and he came back in the house. there she was tortured. she screamed, she fought, he finally decided to cut her wrist off so she couldn't fight him

anymore. you know what, i felt like it was my fault that she fought. because i always taught my kids you are never a quitter. you never quit. if you fail at something, you get up and try it again. do you it a different way. but we can't quit life. we can't quit. i thought if i would not have taught her that, maybe she wouldn't have fought so hard. i came here and thought i would yell and scream at everybody. tell everybody how much i hated them. but that's not who i am. because i don't. i don't have hate in my heart. i have faith and hope that because i have come here today, that maybe one of you, one

person will reach out to someone in your life to give them hope. to make a difference. >> filming was one of the most difficult things that i have experienced. up to that point and even through the next five or six prisons that we have been in, i remember how emotional it was. out of all the inmates in that session. lawrence was the first one to speak up. >> i want to thank you for coming. >> lawrence was visibly affected by her and when the two of them spoke, what was so interesting to me was lawrence wanted to make her feel better. >> you said you couldn't protect her. i don't believe that. i believe you protected her and it was just someone else's violence that caused what happened. you protected her more than you

knew. you still are protecting her today by doing this and giving of yourself to people that don't deserve it. >> she took comfort in what lawrence was saying. i think it made him feel better to be able to give her some type of comfort. >> thank you. thank you. >> i also think her sharing of that story helped lawrence get in touch with the people he victimized. >> how are you changed by the talk? >> i don't know how to explain it. i really don't. it's deeper than words be ever be said. i don't know if i will ever have that kind of opportunity. just to be honest, i don't know

if i want to. it scares me. nothing i can really say to my victims to ease any kind of pain. like now, bringing back up brings it all back up. i guess i kind of push it back for a moment. it's always there. it's the choices you make and i made bad choices. that's all there is to it. >> coming up, a 13th century castle houses one of the most infamous criminals in the czech republic. ♪ [ construction sounds ] ♪ [ watch ticking ] [ engine revs ] come in. ♪ got the coffee. that was fast. we're outta here. ♪

[ engine revs ] ♪

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beautiful village and it was like being transported to another time. it was beautiful and quaint and there were none of the trappings i am used to. on top of the mountain was this gorgeous castle. that was the prison. >> inside this fairy tale-like 13th century castle, we had an encounter with a man whose life was anything but a fairy tale. his name is vladimir. >> i heard a lot about vladimir when i got to the prison. he was one of the most notorious inmates housed there. because he was such a high profile inmate, he had to be taken to a specific cell before we were able to go in and interview him. there is this build up about his notorious crimes and the violence. he was like a character out of good fellahs.

when i started talking with vladimir, i was surprised. very calm, gentle guy. relating his situation to me. >> translator: i was living a double life. it was awful for me like watching a horror movo aie on t. >> he was serving time for being an accomplice for a plot so infamous it inspired five books and a feature film. it resulted in five murders including his mother. >> translator: as far as my own personal story is concerned, i should start the at beginning. i grew up without a father. i had friends, older ones. one of those older friends became my curse in this case. >> he claims his strange junior into hell began when a childhood

friend turned crooked cop murdered a man in his home and demanded he help cover it up. >> and because my family lived in the house where that happened, he threatened me by saying if i didn't cooperate, he would kill both me and my wife and daughter and so it happened that i cooperated with him. >> according to him, his role in the plot was limited to getting rid of two of the bodies. he did so by stuffing them into barrels welding the top shut and dumping them into a reservoir. >> did anyone go into a barrel alive before they were thrown in. >> translator: no, no, no. absolutely not. we didn't cut them up either. the bodies were whole. >> they were so serious about harming his wife and daughter, they murdered his mother.

>> he mailed an explosive to my mother they had known since childhood and it killed my mother. >> he was involved in the plan to kill his mother and gain an inheritance, but he denies that. >> i just wasn't able to protect her. i could have protected her if i had gone to the police at that time, but you can't undo it. once it was set in motion, it was like being on a plane and not being able to jump off. the only thing i take comfort in is the fact that nothing happened to my daughter. even though i missed out on her childhood and of course i regret that. >> his daughter was 6 years old when he entered prison 14 years earlier. he counts the loss of his relationship with her among the many consequences he dealt with. >> i was planning on hanging myself. i spent a lot of time feeling sorry for myself. but then i started to think it's

the wrong way to think. because why should i feel sorry for myself. when actually a lot of people were hurt and the people whose lives can't be returned and the victims and relatives as well. it just made me feel very sorry. these are things that can't be undone, but ever since then, i believe the soul is immortal and that helped me to come to terms with the idea that perhaps even the dead will be born again into a new life. >> but he was still making the most of his life even behind the ancient walls of the prison. he had recently remarried. this time to a woman he met through an inmate pen pal program. >> translator: and actually with this hell i have gone through, my life values were reversed. i realized that property and money and all that means nothing compared to a healthy love. a person's health and love of life. i was aware of that even when those things were happening.

but you realize it in here when you are locked up in iron and concrete. without being able to go out into nature and live with the one you love, it gets to you here. then you really see what kind of person you are. >> coming up -- >> ♪ >> two inmates find a bit of meaning amid the crumbling walls of san quentin. >> some people may look at this as very ugly. like looking at someone saying this ain't the most beautiful person, but this person has character. [ male announcer ] if it wasn't for a little thing called the computer,

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>> san quentin state prison sits on the edge of san francisco bay. surrounded by city, but shroud

in a mystique that is fed by the fortress-like architecture and an infamous history dating back to 1852. >> the first time i walked into san quentin, it looked like a place where time forgot. it was like an old movie. the walls were crumbling and it was dark and depressing and the cells were stacked on each other one by one, packed with people and had the most creepy feeling you could imagine. >> while san quentin produces images that are haunting to some, there others who find inspiration beneath the facade. >> the most interesting part about this that i see is the weeds growing up out of the cracks. i always find that interesting because you got life that always seems to push up. >> when are we met ronnie

goodman, he was in the seventh year of a 10-year sentence for burglary. >> i started drawing when i was 6 or 7 years old. my cousin, he drew a picture of bat man and i was like what is that? it was like a magic trick. he started teaching me how to draw and after that i just never stopped. >> unfortunately goodman's love of art was not enough to save him on the outside. >> i started using drugs and being self-destructive and didn't care about who i am as a human being. basically homeless and struggling with in general. >> in prison, goodman rediscovered his passion. >> a friend of mine had shown me in prison what you try to create work pertaining to your life. i was fighting in.

i'm in prison. why would i do anything about that? it's bad enough they will here. i don't like being here. you see what comes out of it. this is a scene in san quentin prison that is really the main access to the upper yard which is going up to north block. you are coming down the steps. you get this feeling like you are walking into time and going up and down the steps. it captures a lot of the character of san quentin. some people might look at this as being very ugly. it's like looking at somebody and saying this ain't the most beautiful person, but this person has character. to me if you got character, that creates a beauty.

i am painting what i see and what i go through and my past. there is beauty in things you may not really see. whatever makes you feel better. whether you are in prison or out of prison, you still have to make do with life. you have to find something to fill up whatever void you have. >> in another part of san quentin, joe practices his art. his choice of location just outside death row is no accident. ♪ ♪ >> the spot has special

significance for him. he is serving 25 years to life under california's three strikes law. >> i almost killed somebody in a burglary in 1985. if they would have died, i may have been up there. that's pretty heavy right there. ♪ >> why do you write such sad songs? >> i don't know. it's -- i don't know actually. i don't have an answer for that. they feel good to write though. they really do. ♪ life is all about emotion. we are all related emotionally. all of us. i think before i came to prison

in 85, i didn't relate. i didn't feel like i related. it's just with human beings. that's probably why i was able to do what i did. almost killed somebody in a burglary. ♪ >> relationships may have been an effort for him, but he struggled to maintain one in particular. with his daughter, lauren. >> she is 21 now. she is trying to make a singing career. she is so intelligent and so compassionate. so many things. so many wonderful things actually. >> he has rarely been able to enjoy his daughter's musical talent. >> i don't have a tape of her or anything. i haven't heard her sing except for when she came up during a crist mat festival. she was 17 years old and the

first time i got to play guitar with her and sing in front of the audience. that was a moment. i had never even sat there with a guitar with her before. all this good stuff makes me feel like a real moron. i let me kid down and everybody really. everybody loved me. everybody still does, but it's weird. it's heavy. as heavy as my music. it really is. ♪ ♪