production on government land of oil is down 14%. and production on gas is down 9%. >> it's just not true. >> i don't think really believes that you're a person who's going to be pushing for oil and gas and coal. you'll get your chance in a moment. i'm still speaking. >> well -- >> and my answer is -- >> if you're asking me a question, i'm going to answer it. >> that wasn't a question. it was a statement. >> good morning. it is wednesday, october 17th. welcome to "morning joe." here with us, msnbc and "time" magazine senior political analyst, mark halperin. >> mr. happy. >> yeah, that's what we are. that's what we think of. national affairs editor for "new york" magazine and msnbc political analyst john heilemann. and remote from all the way across the room, we like to keep him separate, sometimes he has to be put in the corner, msnbc contributor mike barnicle. >> the barnicle cam. >> yeah, just stay over there. okay, where do you want to

begin? >> how about the debate? >> how about reaction to the debate and the polls. really? you want to start with the debate? last time we did a debate, you started with baseball, so that's why i ask. no, i thought it was fascinating. >> who do you think won? >> i think it's fair to say the president did a lot better and probably won the debate. i think romney kind of laid out the red carpet for him to hone in on romney's weaknesses for some reason. romney was kind of weak last night, especially on libya. mark halperin, what do you think? >> i think the president won for two reasons mostly. one is libya. an issue the republicans thought they'd have an advantage on and instead romney gave an incredibly weak answer and the president gave a strong one. i think potentially taking the issue off the table the rest of the way including the national security debate. and romney loses as a politician when his opponents get inside his head on being rich and supporting policies which would seem to favor the rich. i thought the president did it all night. and romney showed it. the guy from denver was largely

not there. >> joe, what stood out to you? >> well, the first 20 minutes of the poll, what stood out to me was the fact that this was a format, like we said yesterday, that really didn't play to mitt romney's strength. >> yeah. >> he came on way too strong. one thing that all challengers should be aware of, if you're going to be running for president of the united states, there are two things you don't do in debates. one, you don't run over a female moderator. stylistically you don't. it's very dangerous. jim lehrer, fine. you can get out a knife and have a knife fight with jim lehrer. but you don't do that with a female moderator. it's problematic. secondly, you don't run over the president of the united states. whether that president's a republican or whether that president is a democrat. there are independent voters who believe that a president should be treated with deference because he is the commander in chief. >> and you do it carefully. >> more in sadness than in

anger. >> with all due respect. with all due respect. >> and the mitt romney that we saw yesterday was the mitt romney who was very successful in cutting off newt gingrich and rick perry and herman cain when the stakes were far lower, and it took him about 20 minutes to figure out that he just couldn't be that much of a bulldozer. >> yeah. well, when he said that thing to the president at one point, "you'll get your turn." that was an incredibly kind of condescending, you know, i'm the ceo kind of patronizing way of treating the president. as you said, for some independent voters, that's true. the other thing is exactly the same way, this debate was, i thought, the mirror image of denver. in denver, mitt romney had a plan. he executed it. president obama didn't. in this debate, president obama had a strategy. you could see it all throughout the debate. he was much more engaged, focused and energetic. also he was trying to do specific things and he largely

got those things done. and romney was mostly defensive and reactive. to mark's point about him -- the president being his head, i thought the reason this format wouldn't work well for him was because of their interacting with the audience. it turned out he said he doesn't like to be challenged directly. when he is challenged directly, he does tend to get a little rattled. >> i also think the physical nature of the setting, it worked better for romney last time because it was much more controlled. he's a man who likes everything to be controlled and in place. and this was less so with candy and the audience and then the president and the moving around the stage. willie, would you agree with that? >> yeah, just on the style and format. he was on the brink, i thought, of a couple times of an al gore moment where he started walking at the president. you wondered where he was going. the president kind of gave him a look. he also a couple times was forced ugg to go back and as mark pointed out was the president's strategy. he had to go back and answer a previous question after a voter had asked him something very

specific and very pointed on another subject. he said, i want to come back to that in a second. president obama, i thought, strategically had a good debate. >> i made that point on the show "way too early." >> you did. >> dominating debates up until this point had worked. last night it did not work when you have americans asking you questions and you blowing past them and going back to answer other questions when you're running over, again, a female moderator, very dangerous to do. when you're talking about swing voters, disinterested voters that are now just getting engaged. and again, you've got to always be careful how you treat the president of the united states. be it george w. bush or barack obama. >> there were some fascinating moments. we'll start there. since you brought it up. because i actually noticed a change in romney's voice after this moment. it's almost as if the moment got into his head. take a look. >> i've got to move you along. >> he actually got the first

question, so i get the last answer on that one. >> actually, in the follow-up, it doesn't quite work like that, but i'm going to give you a chance here, i promise you i'm going to. and the next question is for you. so if you want to continue on. but i don't want to leave all these guys sitting here. >> candy -- >> we're going to move you along to taxes. >> i'm used to being interrupted. >> i'll move you both along to taxes. >> all right. it went on. there was more. you get the point. >> a lot of back and forth. the big question, though, that i think most republicans looked at as mitt romney's missed opportunity, the moment where he had a chance to turn the debate around and sprint to the finish line, and at least call it a draw was his answer to the libya question which was just absolutely stunned at how badly he did. i saw charles krauthammer say the same thing, laura ingram, several other conservatives said yeah, he lost the debate on points, and in large part, it's because he botched the answer to

a question that referred to -- it was a toss-up. >> yeah. >> in fact, some of us thought that the question was planted where the biggest scandal, i think, foreign policy scandal in the obama administration's four years was brought up. and mitt romney -- >> set it up. all right. >> -- botched it. >> the president was taking responsibility for what happened to four americans who lost their lives in benghazi. this definitely is one of those moments during this debate last night where republicans were probably screaming at the tv, looking his opponent in the eye, the president said he doesn't play politics on matters of national security. >> while we were still dealing with our diplomats being threatened, governor romney put out a press release. trying to make political points. and that's not how a commander in chief operates. you don't turn national security into a political issue.

>> does the buck stop with your secretary of state as far as what went on here? >> secretary clinton has done an extraordinary job, but she works for me. i'm the president. and i'm always responsible. and that's why nobody's more interested in finding out exactly what happened than i do. the day after the attack, governor, i stood in the rose garden, and i told the american people and the world that we are going to find out exactly what happened, that this was an act of terror, and i also said that we're going to hunt down those who committed this crime. and the suggestion that anybody on my team, whether secretary of state, our u.n. ambassador, anybody on my team would play politics or mislead when we've lost four of our own, governor, is offensive. that's not what we do. that's not what i do as president. that's not what i do as

commander in chief. >> i think it's interesting the president just said something which is that on the day after the attack, he went in the rose garden and said that this was an act of terror. >> that's what i said. >> you said in the rose garden the day after the attack, it was an act of terror. it was not a spontaneous demonstration. is that what you're saying? >> please proceed, governor. >> i want to make sure we get that for the record because it took the president 14 days before he called the attack in benghazi an act of terror. >> get the transcript. >> he did, in fact, sir. let me call it an act of terror. >> can you say that a little louder, candy? >> he did call it an act of terror. it did as well take -- it did as well take two weeks or so for the whole idea of there being a riot out there about this tape to come out. you're correct about that. >> well, here's what president obama said on september 12th, the day of the attack. quote, the world must stand

together to unequivocally reject these brutal acts. no acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character, or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. the bigger picture, a missed opportunity for mitt romney. >> yeah. i mean, a missed opportunity. and there were quite a few missed opportunities, actually, for mitt romney. where, again, it was very clear that he was thrown off with his debate style. had he been behind the podium, he had a couple of slam dunks that just laid up for him that he should have put away, and he just didn't do it. that said, there were some flash polls out last night. >> yeah, cbs poll. >> there were some fascinating discrepancies in these polls that we ought to talk about, and you guys can tell me what it means. >> this one looked at uncommitted voters, and it has president obama winning by a 37%

margin with 30% calling it a tie. a cnn/orc poll, similar result. seven-point margin in favor of the president. but according to both polls, romney won on the issue of the economy with the cbs poll showing romney edging the president by 31 points on that issue. the cnn poll favored romney by 18 on the economy. >> mike barnicle, that's quite a divergence when you start talking about who won the debate versus who won the economy. and you wonder whether the people that said the president won the debate were just talking about style points when they turned right around and said that it seemed like romney, by a 31-point margin in the cbs poll, would do a better job on the economy. >> yeah, i don't know what these instant polls mean, if they mean anything at all, joe, after a debate like that. what i think is meaningful is the clips that we just showed, the president of the united states showed up in that debate. especially when he turned to governor romney, established eye contact perhaps for the first time in either of these two debates with governor romney,

eye contact, and told him, that's mott what we do. that was the president of the united states. and that was a critical moment for governor romney and his campaign because it was the first time in these debates that the president showed up. and prior to that, i think just cosmetically, i get the feeling just instinctively that there's a lot of people who were watching that debate, some of them undecided, who know, like in life, in campaigns and in debates, there is a very thin line between confidence and arrogance. and i'm wondering how many people out there thought that governor romney crossed that line. >> mark halperin, let's talk about the polls. what's with the divergence in who won and who handled the economy better? that's obviously job number one this year. >> i think kind of baffling. we often have conflicting data. i think this is very baffling. there's no doubt that going into the debate, the big question was, would the president have another bad debate?

there's no doubt that he didn't have a bad debate. he had some bad moments, as governor romney did. there's no one in the country who said anything to me or in my own judgment that's compelling about what this does to the race. i don't think -- i don't know that anybody knows, not just in terms of looking at it -- >> it did, certainly, though, stop the bleeding. yesterday morning we were talking about -- >> i'm not willing to say that -- certainly i don't think it accelerates it necessarily, but i don't know that it stops romney's march towards closing the gaps because of advertising and other factors. i don't know that it put the president in a stronger position even though i think he got the better of the contest. i think it's not only because of the mixed data but because of the confusion about how people would view that in its totality. i just don't know. >> i think the president's tone was pitch perfect in terms of not only showing up but also not going over the top. we had the big debate about biden and obviously the president showed up but kept it within a very good range in terms of style. >> can i say something?

>> just wondering why romney who made so many opening -- started with an opening about detroit, which we can get to. >> i just want to say one thing which i think is incredibly important. the president did not lay out a second-term agenda. and if there's -- >> i read that. >> if there's an undercurrent here that could really hurt him, not in the room, because it wasn't -- it wasn't evident, it was absent, he didn't lay out a second-term agenda any more than he did in the first debate. and that is where he's weakest, and he didn't address it, i thought, at all. >> it was fascinating. you bring up detroit. >> yeah. >> mitt romney was doing great until halfway through the second question, and he actually brings up detroit himself. >> yes. >> and when he brings up detroit, he stumbles into it terribly, talking about he did want to bankrupt it, but the president bankrupted it and talked to gm. it was his rambling issue. the answer to the question i had

was why didn't mitt romney, on his second question, the question was set up for him to kill it, veered into detroit and stumbled around. that was a terrible mistake. we also had libya. why did he stumble around on libya? there's also -- it went the same for the president, too. a lot of these questions were set up. it sounded like they were almost setup questions in the audience for the president. i know they weren't. but a lot of easy questions. when i heard immigration, i thought, oh, obama's going to kill this one, and romney's going to get pounded. no. just the opposite. the president stammered around on immigration. i mean, listen. i think what you gave the president a "b" minus and romney a "c." >> he's a tough grader. >> he is a tough grader. >> i don't want to be in your class. >> neither of these guys really blew it away last night. but the president did much better. but i don't think anybody tuning in that's uncommitted said oh,

my gosh, barack obama has shown us the way to the promised land over the next four years. >> no, but to your point, though, joe, and to marry up one of your points to mark's point about, you know, people showed up, i think, wanting to know whether the president would have another bad performance. but i think more than that, the biggest question for a lot of voters is when they looked at that denver debate was, does this guy actually want to be president? >> right. >> is he actually willing to fight for his job? and i think that he answered yesterday pretty compellingly. he showed up and fought for his job. and mark actually raised this on the show yesterday. he fought for it yesterday. he wanted it. >> he corrected from the first one and said when romney wasn't telling the truth and went at him. but kept it dignified. >> and i think that sends a really important signal that matters to people because i do think voters feel like if you're not willing to fight for your own job, you're not willing to fight for them in the office. >> did you notice the wives afterwards? you look at the wives' body language afterwards?

after the first debate, it looked like michelle was going to punch her husband. she was just glaring at him, like what? last night it was just the opposite. ann seemed less than happy. and michelle was smiling ear to ear. >> and the other thing that happened afterwards that i think chuck todd pointed out last night was that in denver, mitt romney stayed on the stage, greeted a lot of people. and obama high-tailed it off the stage. last night, exactly the opposite. romney, very quickly exited the stage. obama stayed out there for 25 minutes or something kind of gladhanding with people, suggesting how each felt how they performed by how willing they were to stick around and wallow in it, or not. >> also the first lady's face was reflective of what democrats were feeling. in an informal poll of my democrat friends who were extremely disappointed with the president in the first debate, e-mailing with them last night, they said there's the guy. he was cool when he needed to be. he stood up for what he believed

in and fought back. >> so we were in l.a. yesterday. >> if you can believe it, we watched it there. >> we watched it in l.a. last night. >> it was comical. >> ari emanuel who like every other democrat i talked to over the past five, six days, just been in a panic. when we saw him, he was pacing back and forth, you know, screaming and just -- he was completely -- >> ari screaming? never. >> out of his mind scared that barack obama was going to have another bad debate. and mitt romney was going to -- and he was like a kid cheering like for a football game through the whole thing. >> i couldn't decide whether to watch the debate itself or to watch ari watching the debate. >> that's a good split screen. >> it is a good split screen. >> he kept jumping up and getting in joe's face. >> he kept squeezing my arm. he was trash talking. and then i would start to say something. he'd go shh. shh. >> like a 5-year-old.

>> unless ari was. >> the point is he was very energized by this debate. he was depressed after the first debate. you know, so many democrats this past week i've talked to have just been so depressed thinking, we're going to lose this election. you know, mike, after last night, the president certainly did prove he was back in the game. he energized his base. i don't think mitt romney depressed his base. his base is more like saying you know, he should have done a better job on that libya question. i do think, to use the term, again, i think that mitt romney, for his base, certainly held serve. >> yeah, he certainly did. he certainly did. he didn't necessarily lose the debate as much as the president won the debate. and as john just pointed out, the president showed up and indicated to the country who were watching that he wants this job back. that he really wants this job back. romney, to a certain extent, played to type. i mean, he behaved and acted and

spoke as if this were a hostile takeover. as if he were talking to a board of directors. that's not what this was. this was basically another aspect of the job application that both of these men have before the country. so it's going to be interesting to sort out the numbers as they come in over the polls that will be taken to find out how much of an effect the behavior of both these candidates had. the cosmetic behavior that both these candidates had on the country. i mean, i just think it's really interesting, some of the clips that won't be played, for instance, governor romney saying to the president of the united states, let me give you a bit of advice. how many people out there have heard their boss say to them, let me give you a bit of advice, knowing, yeah, right. it's just interesting the way this will play out in the coming days. >> it will be interesting. i do say that you have to look in those polls, and you see in the two polls that americans -- i mean, uncommitted voters in the cbs poll by a 31-point

margin say that mitt romney can handle the economy better than barack obama. i tell you what, that is a hell of a number to take away when you're talking about swing voters who are going to decide how they vote based on the economy. and that's where most of them are going to go. >> and the romney campaign will tell you that they were doing dial groups in ohio last night. they weren't displeased with the outcome from the things that they saw. governor romney has things to take away from the debate that are positive. to me the biggest takeaway of the entire debate, which is something we knew already, is that boy, these guys really, really hate each other. the degree of -- it was so -- there were moments where like it almost looked like they were going to come to blows. >> the president looked very upset at one point. >> the physicality of it was raw. and visceral at moments where i really thought, wow, they're like a step away from blows here. not really but like almost. it could have happened. >> when do we find out how many people -- it seemed like everybody was talking about it yesterday. i mean, everywhere we went, people would come up and say, are you ready? >> they were fired up.

>> they were getting ready to watch it. i bet you there are huge numbers. >> on your point on the economy, one good moment people haven't talked about for mitt romney where he summed up his argument was when the questioner asked the president first, you know, you've let me down. i voted for you in 2008. and the president gave his response where he talks about the hole that he dug us out of. and then mitt romney got up and said you can listen to that, he says it's better better, but you know the reality. your life is more difficult. gas is more expensive. you're looking for a job. it's harder to pay your bills. can you listen to that spin or you can listen to yourself. >> that was his best moment. >> that was. a really good moment. let me ask you really quickly -- >> don't do it. >> no, i've got to. >> come on, now. >> you call it had, though, the yankees went up against a great pitcher, they're down 3-0, it's going to take a miracle. >> justin verlander. cy young mvp last year completely shut down the yankees when he had to have it. they had two hits going into the ninth. they got one run in the ninth inning but still lost.

they send cc sabathia tonight. might steal one game, but 3-0 is a long way back. >> mike barnicle, i don't know much about baseball, but it did happen one time, did it not? >> what did you say? >> didn't it happen one time that a team came back from a 3-0 deficit? i think only once. >> we'll get research on that. >> research? >> but that team cared. this team has quit. >> and this team has sucked. just sucks. >> coming up this morning, we've got senator john kerry. he's going to be with us on set. going to enjoy that. also we have louisiana governor bobby jindal. and "the new york times" columnist tom friedman along with the "washington post" pulitzer prize winner, eugene robinson. it's a pulitzer smackdown between friedman and gene. and coming up next, mike allen. he's got the top stories in the "politico playbook." first, is mike opening up -- >> yeah, what's he doing over there? >> -- an egg mcmuffin? >> you can't wait until the commercial break? show the class what you have.

hold it up, please. >> first here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> what people don't know is mike only eats half the muffin. he usually throws it at me at some point during the morning. there it is. that's what we'll be waiting for eventually. let me get you out the door. it's cold this morning in new england. it will be a decent afternoon. not really any travel concerns. after the cold start, it will be in the 60s this afternoon from hartford to d.c. nothing troublesome there. the middle of the country is where all the travel trouble weather will be. we could see a few tornadoes late today in areas from little rock to memphis through mississippi. so keep an eye on this. make sure you know where your family is and being safe in case storms roll your way late this afternoon through this evening. and as far as the rest of the country goes, the northern plains is not going to be pretty. very windy. temperatures dropping. we could travel trouble at the airports in kansas city, st. louis and chicago because of gusty winds and the possibility of a few storms. and anyone joining us either late in the night or early in the morning on the west coast,

no problems whatsoever on this wednesday morning. let's see that arm, mikey. oh, good throw, bad catch. we're not a good team. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. welcome aboard! [ chuckles ] ♪ [ honk! ] ♪ [ honk! ] ♪ [ honk! ] ♪ [ male announcer ] now you'll know when to stop. [ honk! ] the all-new nissan altima with easy fill tire alert. [ honk! ] it's our most innovative altima ever. nissan.

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♪ 29 past the hour. time now to take a look at the "morning papers." we'll start with "the wall street journal." for the first time in its history, the u.s. postal service hits its $15 billion borrowing limit from the treasury department this past september. now the post office's only source of revenue comes through selling stamps and shipping packages. the postal service has added $2.4 billion to its debt since

june 30th. and "the miami herald" from our "parade of papers," the cuban officials have announced the country's going to exit the visa requirement opening the door to citizens to travel abroad. the new policy begins january 14th, 2013, and that's going to cause a fascinating shake-up in the politics of south florida. and "the washington post," the president of france is promising to put an end to homework. >> oh, i love this. >> as part of a sweeping overhaul of the country's education system. his argument, he says it's not fair. some students get help from their parents when other children from disadvantaged families do not. >> willie, this guy -- >> that's interesting. >> i think, and we may have to move to france because this guy is like -- okay, so now he's banning homework. >> yep. >> yep. he's trying to reduce the workweek because, of course, france's economy is struggling. >> you're going to move to france, aren't you? >> he's going to force people to work less.

>> yeah. >> he's lowering the retirement age despite the fact their entitlement systems are collapsing. i like the cut of this guy's jib. >> the down side is, 75% income tax. that's his dream. >> you might consider that confiscatory. >> you have to think of that in making a decision. >> why can't we have a geneva bank account. >> caymans. >> we could be citizens in switzerland and france. >> you do what the stones did, you just dance around europe evading taxes. >> no homework. that's actually an interesting debate because so many teachers put it all off on homework. don't do as much at school. >> that is an interesting debate, mika. let's go back to the stones, though. do you think keith hid his money in heroin for years? >> heroin futures. >> you mean like literally, like in a big giant bag of heroin? >> no, like a money launderer, so he bought bales of heroin.

and you go to his farm in france and you just see the heroin bales. >> based on my experience, heroin does not come in bales. >> if you're keith richards, it does. he imports. >> more like bricks. >> i'm kind of curious. >> good save, mika. all right. let's go to the chief white house correspondent for politico, mike allen. you've heard what we've been saying. what's your take out of last night's debate for you? >> governor romney discovered one of the basics precepts of military science, you only get one sneak attack. president obama was ready for him. they were pointing at each other, stalking each other. somebody e-mailed me and they said they thought the secret service was going to intervene. you guys were talking about the mirror image of denver, and that is, governor romney was let down by his preparation. that clip that we saw of libya,

that was actually an arguable point when the president came out in the rose garden, he at first referred to these violent acts, senseless acts. later he referred more generally to acts of terror. but romney botched the facts. he wasn't ready. he didn't know exactly what the president had said in the rose garden. and so in this commander in chief moment, he looked weak. we know from talking to both campaigns that what they were aiming at was the swing moms, the mothers out there who might either switch or who were undecided. and in the first time governor romney looked presidential. he looked calm. here all those clips that we're seeing of him squabbling, working the moderator, all of that made him look smaller. >> so mike, what's the immediate legacy of this debate? if we had an earthquake two weeks ago in that first debate in denver, how would you

characterize this one? >> the huffington post headline said it all, "barack is back." governor romney's supporters are still excited. and so we have this -- we're back to where we were, which is a jump-ball race with women as the main target for both campaigns. >> we need to get to that part of it. >> mike allen, thanks so much for a look inside the playbook. >> thanks for your coverage. >> we didn't celebrate one of our own. mike barnicle, "new york post," page 13. >> how exciting. >> hamptons peeper. >> oh, my god, that is him. >> that's mike. >> you didn't tell us. >> you didn't tell us. but he puts a spy cam inside so he can watch people bathe where he's doing whatever he's doing. >> we know exactly where he is and exactly what he's doing. >> you didn't recognize him. >> i was out looking for a focus group full of swing moms. >> in a raincoat and nothing

else. >> the thing is for mike, mike is trying to expand his operation. and so during the day, he sits in central park staring. but at night, what are you going to do? you have to go back to your seedy apartment, and you turn on your video monitors. >> it takes a lot of the headache out of surveilling people. you just sit in your apartment and you can have the game on there. >> the kids. taking a bath. >> that belly, mike. >> the park with the raincoat and nothing else on, that's like a bad look for him. >> not cool. >> let's move on. >> it's worked for him very well over the past 15 years. the yankees bench a-rod again as they try to save their season in detroit. against one of the greatest pitchers who ever lived. highlights from the alcs next.

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i think he's a liability to the yankees. $30 million a year, and he strikes out every time he comes up in a playoff game. >> as a businessman, what do you do with that? >> well, i would terminate his contract, personally. i think george would have done that. i would terminate his contract on the basis that when he signed, he didn't say that he took drugs. he actually admitted that he took drugs.

now he's not taking drugs anymore, and without drugs, he's less than an average player. >> that's donald trump yesterday talking to michael kay on espn radio. >> and by the way, the lawyer in me says, just file the lawsuit, and then say to a-rod, you want to go through deposition? you want to go through all the medical records? you really want to go through all of this, or do you just want to do a deal? we'll pay you a little bit and you can go to another team. >> a lot of people wondering, he's got five years left on his deal, the yankees owe him $20 million. what do you do with him if he doesn't stay? >> the yankees have an enormous revenue stream. you pick up 75%, maybe 80% of his contract and ship him to the marlins, he'd be a tremendous draw, play out the rest of his contract down there, get him off this roster. >> you know what we call that plan? >> what's that? >> the a-rod plan for self-deportation. >> exactly. >> let's check out the

highlights. game three last night of the alcs. >> get him out of new york city. i mean, really, seriously, though. you have a-rod and you have jeter as the two guys that have been the stars. and it's just blown apart this year. >> and mariano rivera, lost him. >> and not because of derek jeter. >> yankees lost the first two games of the series at home. they had to beat justin verlander in detroit to get back in the series. a-rod benched again last night as was nick swisher. 20 strikeouts in the postseason. verlander looking good, gets granderson swinging in the third, did not allow a base runner until the fourth. scoreless till the bottom of the fourth and delmon young puts the tigers on the board. a solo home run. seventh career postseason home run as a tiger, the most in detroit's franchise history. a couple batters later, phil hughes, looking a little uncomfortable on the mound. joe girardi and the training staff check on him, leaves the game with a stiff back. david phelps comes on in relief.

let's go to the fifth inning. runner on second base. nobody out. miguel cabrera, the triple crown winner, a double into the gap. the run comes around to score. 2-0, tigers at that point. and that's really all verlander needs. this is the ninth inning. trying to get the complete game. eduardo nunez, great at-bat, fouled off a bunch of pitches, then hit the home run. 2-1. that ended verlander's scoreless inning streak. two on with two outs, yankees have runners on first and second. raul ibanez, can't fault him, he's delivered in the postseason, but strikes out against the former yankee, fiph koch. yankees have gone three straight games without ever holding a lead. that's only the third time in the history of the franchise that's happened in the postseason. yankees will try to avoid a sweep tonight. and they send cc sabathia out. >> can i ask you a question here

just for one second? what do you guys think about a 40-year-old guy -- 40-year-old guy who suddenly is hitting home runs, like monster home runs? >> raul ibanez? >> yeah. >> at 40. >> he's just having a great postseason. that's it. that's it. >> he had great power numbers. >> yes. yeah. >> like two years ago. >> he doesn't hit for average. he just got hot at the right time. he's the only one on that club hughes hot. >> at 40. >> mike likes to maintain his romantic vision. >> he's one of the finest human beings in major league baseball. >> is he really? >> yeah. i'm told that, yes. >> yeah. no, just like sammy sosa. i loved that guy. great story. >> fine human being. >> you know, coming to the country, not being able to speak english in front of congressional committees. >> look at the green room. jeff greenfield's getting comfortable. jon meacham, a little too comfortable. >> pulitzer prize. >> and eugene robinson. >> they want to get out of their chairs. >> a couple felonies in that room, too.

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any investments i have over the last eight years have been managed by a blind trust. and i understand they do include investments outside the united states including in chinese companies. mr. president, have you looked at your pension? have you looked at your pension? >> i've got to say -- >> mr. president, have you looked at your pension? >> you know, i don't look at my pension. it's not as big as yours, so it doesn't take as long. >> let me give you some advice. >> i don't check it that often. >> let me give you some advice. look at your pension. you also have investments in chinese companies. you also have investments outside the united states. you also have investments through a caymans trust. >> we're way off topic here, governor romney. >> all right. time now for the "must-read opinion pages." >> can i just ask you a quick question before we introduce anybody? all this back and forth, and i'm dead serious, how many undecided voters, after the first scuffle or second scuffle or third

scuffle, said to hell with this, i'm going to watch baseball? >> well, we can actually find out. but i don't know. i think it was interesting. i think people were engaged, especially after the first one. and i think some are really looking for some answers from these candidates. >> maybe the numbers were really high. i've got to say, though, as disgusted as americans are with the bickering and the partisanship, last night was not a good -- last night was not a good message to send to those disaffected voters. >> well, here's what ross says, obama's narrow victory in "the new york times." in part -- oh, by the way, joining us now, pulitzer prize-winning historian jon meacham is here and political analyst and host of pbs's "need to know," jeff greenfield. >> the narrow win president obama gained in the second debate owed something to romney's performance which, though, highly effective in

stretches also showcased more of his flaws. both as a debater and as a candidate. romney is very skillful at the on-stage slash and parry, but he has weak spots, and veterans of the long republican primary slog remember two of them particularly well. one is his tendency to argue pointlessly with the moderator and his opponents overrules of order. the other is his habit of pressing his advantage too far, seeking a kind of alpha-male moment that can seem bullying instead of strong. he gave in to both temptations this time around. i think that was something that you noticed a few minutes in. >> the first 20 minutes in, he was -- you could say -- bullying the moderator and the president of the united states. when you're debating against the president, you have to be a bit more careful than if you're debating against a congressman. but jon meacham, he seemed to pull back a bit. but what was your overall take of the debate? >> i thought it was closer on

the substance than a lot of the conversation suggests. i think romney scored consistently on the economy. i frankly don't think the libyan tragedy is going to move a lot of votes. i think it's fascinating and important, but ultimately if you're an undecided voter, i don't think that's going to move it. but i do think that he was trying, you know, as always, all of us in life fight the last war. and so his strategy, his victory last time was because he was able to assert himself. and he had a passive president. he asserted himself. this time he didn't have a passive president. and you've got the bickersons. >> a lot of the clashing, yeah. jeff greenfield, it's interesting, jon meacham said that mitt romney seemed to do better on the economy and hammered him on the economy. perhaps that's reflected in the cbs poll last night that showed obama winning the debate by a few points, but mitt romney actually having a 31-point advantage on who would do a better job on the economy from

undecided voters, 65%-34%. >> you know, when you take that small a sample and try to break it down, your margin of error is pretty enormous. i don't put a lot of stock in it. i'll tell you what struck me with real force, if the last answer obama gave last night, the close, had been the first answer in the first debate, we would be talking about a very different campaign. the obama campaign had spent a year saying the issue here is that mitt romney isn't on your side. he doesn't understand you. he won't fight for you. i don't know how much money and advertising, how many themes of the campaign. that first debate, jim lehrer said to obama, you've got the first question. what's the difference between you guys? the answer obama gave last night was the answer that in the first debate would have changed, i believe, the whole dynamic of that debate. as it is, because romney did well in that first debate and obama did badly, that you never get a second chance to make a first impression. well, i think in politics in these debates, you don't get a

second chance to redefine your opponent. and while i think obama was effective, the message that he delivered was less effective because it had followed the first debate. >> and that's a question that, mark halperin, you asked whether this debate was going to change anything in the end. >> you know, i continue to look at the polls, talk to the campaigns, try to figure out what this does. and i really don't know. i do think it's pretty clear, though, that mitt romney needed to build off of denver and continue to be an appealing and acceptable alternative. to me, what we move to now, because the last debate on foreign policy, i'm not sure what impact that will have, it's which of the messages from last night is most effectively portrayed in advertising. governor romney's biggest vulnerability, is he out of touch with people? the president's biggest vulnerability, does he have a second-term agenda that will make things better? we move towards advertising and stump speeches more than anything that happened last night. >> the thing also is in the

first debate, you had mitt romney getting off the mat. if he hadn't have done well, he would have lost. last night you had barack obama getting off the mat. if he had another subpar performance, the bleeding would have continued, and i think the swing states would have all gone against him. jon, final thought this segment. >> very quickly, historically for people who follow this, we've never had two general election candidates interact as much and as snarkly and unhappily with one another i think in american history with the exception of al gore getting in george w. bush's face. this was like that on steroids all night. >> and uncomfortable. really uncomfortable. >> i think one of the more glaring moments was on libya, and we'll get to that, and one of the more important moments of the debate last night was on women. so we'll get to that at the top of the hour. jon and jeff, stay with us. a reminder, next week, we're going to boca. >> they've split the first two

fights, and the third will be the thrilla in boca. >> we'll be there for the file debate. if you're in the area, stop by racks downtown eatery and tavern. at mizner park on monday and tuesday starting at 5:30 a.m. we're going to racks. there's nothing wrong with racks. i like it. all right. >> does sound a little like hooters if you think about it. >> it's not hooters. >> this morning we've got david gregory, eugene robinson, chuck todd and andrea mitchell. we shall return. well, if it isn't mr. margin. mr. margin? don't be modest, bob. you found a better way to pack a bowling ball. that was ups. and who called ups? you did, bob. i just asked a question. it takes a long time to pack a bowling ball. the last guy pitched more ball packers. but you... you consulted ups.

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coming up, obama's sparring partner in debate prep, senator john kerry will be here on set. first, "the new york times'" thomas friedman and eugene robinson. keep it here on "morning joe." ♪

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important topic, and one which i learned a great deal about, particularly as i was serving as governor of my state, because i had the chance to pull together a cabinet. and all of the applicants seemed to be men. we took a concerted effort to go out and find women who had backgrounds that could be qualified to become members of our cabinet. i went to a number of women's groups and said, can you help us find folks? they brought us whole binders full of women. >> that is going to be the way we'll start this hour. did you all bring your binders? welcome back to "morning joe." jeff greenfield still with us along with jon meacham over at the pulitzer prize winner cam. joining us now, moderator of "meet the press," david gregory.

>> jon, it's like he ran over and said, that's my seat, and he jumped in it. "washington post" eugene robinson. and thomas friedman. co-author of the book "that used to be us: how america fell behind the world it invented and how we can come back." >> so mika, you didn't like the romney answer on women? >> you know, i think it's interesting what's happening with women. and i'd really love to hear all of your takes on this because you see some polls showing a tightening between the candidates on women. well, this is a president who i think if you take social issues out of it, even, he's done more for women you could argue. >> last night, though, he didn't seem to connect. i thought, this is another one of those examples, the libya question is asked, and mitt romney doesn't slam dunk it. the immigration question is asked, and barack obama doesn't

slam dunk it. >> on both sides. >> it's almost like there's a plan against romney, he's going to get killed, and the president rattles through his liturgy. >> there's so much to talk about. >> i thought romney actually handled the question pretty well. if you look at the meter and you look at him talking about all the people he hired. you didn't think so. >> the question was, equal pay for women. that was the question that set it up. and obama, his answer was kind of went with it, ledbetter, i signed the act, i believe in it. romney never answered that question, whether he believes in equal pay for women. in fact, he went on at great length and even kind of more interesting than the binder full of women sort of quote was that his solution seemed to be, well, i'm going to create a lot of jobs, and employers are going to hire all of these people, and they'll even have to hire the women. >> right. >> you know. so that will solve it.

it was very weird. >> and equal pay is incredibly important, i think. and i think the president did a good job. i see so much more that this administration has done with the white house council on women and girls and the small business administration in terms of not just working on equal pay but access to capital and other things that help lift women up. but he made a good point tying it to the family and not making it just a women's issue. >> david gregory, you look at the polls and see a lot of the women breaking mitt romney's way. they're breaking mitt romney's way according to "usa today" because there are a lot of women who are struggling in this economy, and they believe mitt romney's got a better chance to get them back to work. >> that's what i don't get. >> if that's indeed happening and we have seen it, then i think that's exactly right, which is the broader economic argument, maybe what's resonating is the idea that the women's vote is not just tied up in the social issues, particularly abortion, even if they have strong views about the republican party about that, but that they want greater economic

opportunity and just don't think the president has led. so it's difficult because we look at these recent polls, and then you see other polling out of virginia. our own polling out of virginia and ohio showing that that gender gap is still fairly sizeable. and i'm not certain based on what i heard last night, i think there were more tonal things than substantive things that may have turned women off. and independent voters off, as you talked about earlier. the way they were going at each other, pointing at each other, not being very conversational in the room, and lacking in real civility. >> running over the female moderator. that might be a problem, too. >> also, jeff, a fairly humorous affair. >> except for obama's line on the pension which, by the way, we should mention that was romney's second use of that. when he went after gingrich on investments. yeah, a dose of humor would have come in handy. but i think more fundamentalally on the women's issue, the split when you see overwhelming between married and unmarried

women. and that has to do -- i think david's right -- less with social issues because abortion drives a relatively tiny segment of the vote. single women or unmarried women tend to be much more looking at the government as a helpful provider than married women who tend to look at government more as it's taking my taxes, and the government's intrusive. that split is almost as significant as the gender gap itself. >> it is a remarkable split between married and unmarried women. tom friedman, let me bring you in. another night. another debate. another reason to be depressed if you care about where this country's headed over the next 30 years. no real conversation about medicare reform. no real conversation about medicaid reform. no real conversation about saving social security, about the united states spending more money on military than the next 17 countries combined about wasting $2.5 billion a week in afghanistan, about having a tax code that is old and bloated and inefficient.

and about having a debt that is leading us to a fiscal cliff that we're going to fall off in a couple of years. i would have been happy if they had talked about any one of these issues in a real and substantive way. but once again, they didn't. >> yeah, joe, you certainly don't come away from this debate inspired that either man is offering you a plan that makes you want to jump up out of your chair and say, that's it! that's the fix. there's the diagnosis. and there's the solution. but the way i look at this debate, so in terms of where we need to be as a country, let's just set that aside. that was really not something that came through last night. let's look at it as a debate as a political event. you know, i felt that romney, being the challenger, has to do three things. one, he has to activate something -- a subterranean move in the public that basically says barack obama, really nice guy, tried hard, so glad we

elected our first african-american president, but you know what? i just don't think he has it. that's number one. number two, you know, romney has to disengage himself, i think, from the crazy republicans he ran with in the primary. you know, get himself away from michele bachmann, move him to the center as someone who can work with both sides. >> he seems to be number two fairly effectively, doesn't he? >> and third, i think he has to pass the bar on foreign policy, commander in chief. so on the first, i continue to believe that when talking about jobs and the economy, he does convey more energy and excitement about his ability and willingness, desire, you know, to create more jobs. i think he continues to push that first button very well. on the second, i thought president obama last night was effective, much more effective than the first debate in tying him back to his own radical positions and those of his party, although i think he could have done better. on foreign policy, i get a chill

every time romney speaks about foreign policy. it reminds me of myself when i speak about quantum mechanics. that is it reminds me of myself when i speak about something i have no understanding of, no natural feel for. someone has schooled me on it. and every time i try to get up in front of a crowd to talk about it, it doesn't come out right. >> the third debate should be fascinating if, in fact, we're going to talk about foreign policy the entire time. jon meacham, another thing that you heard from neither one of these candidates, and if you are a single mom, let's say, 45, you lost your job working at a local restaurant two years ago, you're looking for a new job, you've got children that are, you know, going to be going to college soon. and you're trying to figure out how you stay in the house and send at least one of them even to the local community college, you're looking for a way forward. you want to know, what's going to be different over the next four years? and you just didn't get that from barack obama. now, you don't get that from

mitt romney either, but barack obama's the guy that's asking to be hired again. and i've just got to say -- you've got to think after the second debate, this president's laid out no plan for the next four years, no plan. that's got to be devastating in some voters' eyes. >> i think that may explain the numbers you saw, however flawed the methodology may be on the economic poll, where it is easier when you're the challenger to say "x" is not working, and there's not as much pressure to say put in me as "y." so that's working to romney's advantage. but i was thinking last night about bill clinton in the '96 debates and his insistence on the bridge to the 21st century, you know, where senator dole was talking about bringing back a great past. and clinton with that relentless focus on the future. however unspecific it may have been, there was a sense of forward momentum. and i agree. i think that one of the big

issues for the president, he doesn't have the five-point plan. whatever you think of mitt romney's five-point plan, he said it at least three or four times last night, and there is something reassuring for folks who are looking for answers in having that level of specificity. >> you know, there's two things that leap out at me. we're watching these images, this awkward physical spacing on this red rug that's been in place since the mid-'70s for this debate setting. and what you notice is i do think there is a danger for mitt romney in keeping that level of aggressiveness as high as it was. barnicle pointed this out earlier. let me give you some advice. you have investments in china. that's not actually meant to say, and it came off wrong. two, i'm not speaking. no, i'm still speaking. you'll get your chance. he's speaking to the president of the united states. how did that rank with some people? we're not just talking about partisans.

they're already accounted for. what about people who are in the middle? look, people are not able -- not even us all the time in realtime, and we follow this every day, can score on all the points that are made back and forth. but i think a lot of people are looking for not only what -- >> look. you've got three people talking at the same time. >> at the same time. >> and an open ring. >> an open ring where they're sort of dancing is a more elegant term. they're pacing around each other. >> that visual. >> yeah. >> because when you have two podiums like last debate and you have split screen most of all, you're working within -- we know, we do this on television -- you're working within what you know you've got coming at you. this was different. this was very awkward, and it was a little bit bullish on romney's part. >> mitt romney was not comfortable. we said it. i said yesterday -- >> predicted it. >> -- this was not going to be a good debate for romney on the style part because he's not comfortable in that format. >> let me move away from david

gregory's interior decorating advice and raise one other thing which is what neither of these guys will say and can say, which is one of the reasons we're in the fix we're in is that for the last 35 or 40 years, we have been in essentially a kind of economic stagnation. we had a 35-year run as tyler cowan, the economist, said we picked the low-hanging fruit. and now we can't do that anymore. and you can't cut your way back to what it was. you can't spend your way back to what it was. this is a kind of new normal. and the one time when obama even approached that was when he said look, some of these jobs aren't coming back. that's the closest we got to a statement of candor. >> and a real statement of an agenda that says the first thing we'll have to deal with the fiscal cliff, resolve this revenue question, then the government playing a role in trying to stimulate a more robust recovery we've seen until now. and thirdly, what are you going

to do to make government work more effectively? >> nothing on what are you going to do about making washington work better. that didn't come out at all. >> it starts with candor that you just don't get in these debates. >> just don't get. and tom friedman, you don't have a question asked and an answer given with candor that jeff greenfield's talking about, tom. on the question of how are you going to change trends such as one that shows that the united states' average wage in the united states for men has been on a steady decline since 1973? and how are you going to combine the need to reinvigorate this economy, restart this economy, redefine this economy at the same time you're taking care of a massive federal debt? >> well, you know, to pick up with jeff's point, joe, we are in the hole we are in because of a convergence of several things. one is obviously that the

economy's undergone a major change in the last 20, 30 years where the metabolism of the pace of change and technological innovation is getting rid of old, routine jobs faster, spinning off new jobs faster, but each new job requires a higher level of skill and education. unfortunately, this new trend coincided with us having not increasing the number of high school graduates at the level we need or college graduates, the level we need. that's one track. that i call the great inflection. that great inflection coincided with the great recession, the explosion of this whole credit economy and a wall street gone mad in terms of financial engineering. so the two have come together. so we need to do several things at once now. we need to cut spending because in the long run, we've made promises to our next generation we cannot keep. we need to raise taxes because we can't just cut spending because we also need to invest in the sources of our strength. and unfortunately, neither guy

really wants to look in the camera and say that. at the same time, we need to figure out how to start more companies. because the days when a big manufacturing company is going to come to your town, ford motor's not going to come with 25,000 people anymore. they're going to come with 2,500 people and 2,500 robots. so we need 100 people starting jobs for 20. 20 people starting jobs for 30. so the whole approach to job creation has to change. >> yeah. >> and i thought president obama, at the very end, really started to get into that. well, that means we need more education. we need more government research to stimulate more googles and more amazons, et cetera. but he continues, i think, to be weak on something that's been his strength. i mean, no child left behind, he did not use those words last night. no child left behind has been a great success, but he doesn't -- he doesn't get excited talking about the innovation economy that, in fact, he's put in place a lot of the pillars for. >> and neither guy gave pointed

answers to what we wanted to hear also i think because some of the questions were soft and didn't ask for pointed, direct answers on where are you going to take this country? how are you going to balance the budget? how are you going to lower the deficit? how? what is your plan? i would have preferred that. having said that, meacham, i'm going to throw this next one out to you, romney was asked by an audience member how he's different from former president george w. bush. take a look. >> president bush and i are different people. and these are different times. and that's why my five-point plan is so different than what he would have done. my policy starts with a very robust policy to get all that energy in north america, become energy secure. number two, trade. i'll crack down on china. president bush didn't. number three, i'm going to get us to a balanced budget. president bush didn't. and then let's take the last one. championing small business. our party has been focused on big business too long. i came through small business. i understand how hard it is to start a small business. that's why everything i'll do is

designed to help small businesses grow. my priority is jobs. i know how to make that happen. and president bush had a very different path for a very different time. my path is designed in getting small businesses to grow and hire people. >> george bush didn't propose turning medicare into a voucher. george bush embraced comprehensive immigration reform. he didn't call for self-deportation. george bush never suggested that we eliminate funding for planned parenthood. so there are differences between governor romney and george bush, but they're not on economic policy. in some ways, he's gone to a more extreme place when it comes to social policy. and i think that's a mistake. that's not how we're going to move our economy forward. >> jon meacham, i actually thought that both sides had good answers for their base on that question, and the answer. i especially liked when mitt

romney talked about how the republican party, for too long, had been associated with just helping business business, that they really needed to focus on helping small business owners. >> i thought governor romney's answer was politic but pointed. it was clearly -- he was ready for the question. i thought it was more candid than i would have expected, frankly. i think we're now on record with the first time president obama has praised president bush. so you've got to like, you know, a world and a context in which you end up with barack obama approvingly citing george w. bush and mitt romney running away from him. so it proves that we should keep tuning in. >> but the pointed question about the differences between romney and bush is about foreign policy. i mean, the bush presidency was defined by 9/11. and i think where romney could be appropriately challenged is to say where is your fill ossph

about managing the middle east different than that of president bush's? i think there's a lot more ambiguity there. i think the president's right on economic policy, on energy policy, there is a lot of similarity. >> the question i have, though, is what is romney's second sentence? the first sentence is i'm going to create, you know, a lot of jobs by fostering small business. and the second sentence is how he's going to do that. and i think that that question about the differences between him and bush, since they're both tax cutters, you know, goes to that question that i frankly think still hasn't been answered. how impact exactly are you goin this? >> gene, you weren't learning, keystone pipeline. >> oh, i'm going to build that pipeline. >> jon meacham. >> i think the question -- i agree with david, it's about foreign policy, but i would argue that in this context, given the crisis of '08, '09 and its lingering effects, it's about the economic consequences of the foreign policy.

and it goes back, again, to the central theme of the election, which is how do you get out of the debt crisis, and how do you grow the economy? because, frankly, you know, as we've been talking about, as tom mentioned, you know, we've been in this downward movement for the first time in the post-war era. >> jeff. >> but the key to this and the reason why mitt romney may not need that second sentence is found in what i thought was his single strongest moment last night. in fact, it's the single strongest argument he has. mr. president, you had a tough time when you came in. but this is what you said would happen if we followed you, and this is what happened. and you had a democratic house and a democratic senate and a mandate, and here's what you said what would happen if we followed you. here's where we are. that's still, in my view, the principal reason why, if obama loses, that will be the argument that defeats him. >> and it was a strong argument. tom friedman, we'll finish with you. do you think at the end of the day, at the end of the debate,

anything was changed, anything was altered? will this debate -- this second debate -- shape the outcome of the election? >> it doesn't feel like it to me, joe. it feels like obama certainly righted his ship. he came across as a man who understands now he has to reapply for his job. he did it energetically, and he took on romney where he needed to to try to stop him from moving to the middle in a fraudulent way. at the same time, though, i continue to believe obama has a weakness when it comes to the question of will the next four years really be different? do you have a plan that excites you and me to get out of my chair and say, that's the guy, that's it, that's the person i want to follow now. he has not closed that deal. >> not at all. >> certainly told people what they don't want. thomas friedman, thank you very much. >> thank you, tom. >> david gregory, jeff greenfield, thank you as well. eugene, will you stick around? >> sure. still ahead, the republican governor of louisiana, bobby

jindal, will be here. up next, senator john kerry is standing by in the green room. he helped the president with his debate preps, and he joins us next. >> mike barnicle is asking him how to beat the rap in massachusetts for the peeping tom charges. >> he'll be fine. he's got it wired. we'll be right back. no, no, no, stop! humans -- one day, we're coming up with the theory of relativity, the next... stop, stop, stop! my car! not so much. but that's okay. you're covered with great ideas like optional better car replacement from liberty mutual insurance. total your car, and we give you the money to buy one a model year newer. learn about it at libertymutual.com. liberty mutual insurance.

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the president just said something which is that on the day after the attack, he went in the rose garden and said that this was an act of terror. you said in the rose garden the day after the attack , it was a act of terror. it was not a spontaneous demonstration. >> please proceed, governor. >> i want to make sure we get

that for the record because it took the president 14 days to call it an act of terror. >> he did. let me call it an act of terror. >> can you say that a little louder, candy? >> he did call it an act of terror. it did as well take -- it did as well take two weeks or so for the whole idea of there being a riot out there about this tape to come out. you're correct about that. >> all right. 28 past the hour. look at that beautiful shot of washington, d.c., with the sun coming up. joining us now, democratic senator from massachusetts, chairman of the senate foreign relations committee and the man who helped prep president obama for these debates, senator john kerry. good to have you on board. >> you're feeling better this morning, i would guess, than the morning after the first debate. a collective sigh of relief. >> how do you take it? >> i think president obama knew exactly what he needed to do. you didn't need to tell him anything. he was ready to come in. but it's been an interesting exercise. i've decided next tuesday i've

got to have an exorcism of romney out of my being. >> did you practice the awkward walking back and forth across the stage? >> now, stop it. >> avoiding each other? >> eugene. >> i'm not going to tell any trade secrets or talk about the process. can i say something to you, joe? i've got to say this. >> uh-oh. >> no, it's not an uh-oh. it's time to get really serious about what's on the table here in this choice. i'm perplexed. i mean, i look at mitt romney, first of all, last night, in my judgment was petulant. he was characteristically expediently misleading. and i'm going to tell you exactly how. and i think people really need to stop. and you, joe, i listen to your show. your career was based on trying to do something serious about the deficit. >> right. >> mitt romney is perpetrating a fraud. on the american people.

his centerpiece plan is -- centerpiece plan, and the president said it last night, it's a one-point plan, a tax cut. if you take his tax cut, and he promises i'm not going to raise the deficit, he promises that the wealthy aren't going to pay a dime less, and he promises he'll give the middle class a tax cut. you have a $5 trillion tax cut of 20% above where we are today. he's already taken off capital gains, can't do that. can't do estate tax. can't do this. he's got -- how much is it -- he's got $1 trillion by extending the bush tax cuts. he's promised to do that. so you're over $5 trillion now. and then you have $2 trillion in defense expenditures. and you add the bush tax cuts. it's about $1 trillion. 7 to 8. if you gave him all the deductions that there are, and you know this, joe, all the deductions that there are, you've got $2.5 ptrillion.

he doesn't want all the deductions, and he's trying to fake it to the american people because he doesn't want to tell you about the home mortgage, the college credit, about state and local taxes, sew fakes s local taxes, sew fakeso he fake. he's running on the central issue of our time, and he's not being straight with the american people. i find it stunning. it's to me disqualifying. here's the bottom line. no, go ahead. >> i was just going to say, we've said before on the show, i've said before on the show, the $5 trillion number just doesn't add up. we thought it was very interesting in the first debate when he said he wasn't going to pass any tax cuts that would grow the deficit. obviously, this plan does grow the deficit. we've also said, though, on the other side that the president has not faced entitlement spending the way he should face entitlement spending. he didn't do what he should have done on simpson-bowles. and one of the things that discourages us and we'd love for you to explain to americans why

they shouldn't be discouraged, is why it seems that if you look at the romney plan to revive the economy, it's a tax cut that doesn't add up. if you look at the president's plan, one of his only plans, it seems, for the next four years to revive the economy, it's to tax the rich. >> see, i disagree with you. >> in taxing the rich. that's what he talks about all the time. that's not going to pay down the debt any more than cutting big bird. >> he doesn't say that, though. >> we need a comprehensive plan. and do you see the president coming up with a comprehensive plan to save entitlements? >> absolutely. more than that. let me be very, very precise with you. the president did put a comprehensive plan on the table. and the plan that he put on the table was a $4 trillion plan. i served on the super committee. >> right, but is he talking about that in the campaign now? it seems that he's running away from it. >> no he's not run ago way from it. >> and he's accusing republicans of cutting medicare. >> what he's talking about this is a clear plan for the future. he laid it out again last night. he said we're going to continue

to grow the economy. i mean, i think he might have even talked a little more about that. frankly, just this piece of it. you know, bank lending is up. foreclosures are down. home sales are up. the jobless claims are at a four-year low. jobless rate is at a four-year low. stock market is near a record high. 401(k)s, near record high, profits for businesses, near a record high. this economy is on the move. and we're coming back. and what the president talked about is not going backwards to the plan that is, you know, the same plan that got us into the trouble in the first place. let me just say one thing. >> but on entitlements, though -- >> what is the plan? >> the president very -- >> he's not talking about how we save medicare and how we save social security and how we save medicaid. >> on the temporary. it didn't come up last night, and the president, i assure you, is prepared to be very clear about it. he has been, i think, in the first debate, but it got hidden

in the theatrics a little bit. but the president already put on the table things a lot of democrats don't like. he talked about raising the age, didn't he? he talked about some other things. now, you know, the fact is he put it all on the table. boehner accepted it. then boehner went back, and we all know what happened. cantor and the right guys said, you can't do this. but here's the bigger problem. joe. and nobody understands this better than you do. mitt romney -- >> well, that's not a good sign for america, but go ahead. >> well, there's a very humble -- that's a big moment on this show. >> it's a big moment in my life, but go ahead. >> i think it's your overnight flight talking. >> oh, my gosh. for sure. >> can i just say this. mitt romney in the first debate and again has doubled down on the notion that he is going to do no revenue. in the first debate, he not only said i won't take 10-1. he said i'm not going to do any

revenue. the thing that stopped the deal on the super committee was the fear of grover norquist's pledge and the right that would come with primaries, and you know all that stuff. >> right. >> mitt romney has signed that pledge, folks. you've got a candidate for the presidency of the united states who is actually promising america four more years of gridlock because either he's lying to the republican base or he's lying to the country. one or the other. but he signed the pledge no new revenue. >> i would love to continue this discussion because it's one that i think is so critical. but i think because of you, who you are, the position you serve of authority on capitol hill, we really need to bring up libya. a lot of americans -- >> can i just say one thing before libya? i want to talk about libya. >> okay. yes. >> massachusetts. the state that knows him the best trusts him the least. he can't even contest -- ronald reagan carried massachusetts twice. we've had four republican

governor es of our last five governors. he can't even contest the state he governed because people there know what he did. he left our governor with a $1 billion deficit. he lost 45,000 manufacturing jobs, twice the number of the national. >> wasn't unemployment around 4.5%? >> unemployment was at 4.7%. and nationally it was lower. he did worse than the nation in coming back slower. >> okay. we need to move really quickly. >> okay, libya. >> on to libya. obviously the white house has had a lot of problems getting their story straight. hillary clinton finally came out a couple of days ago saying that it was a terror attack and the buck stops with me. why did it take the white house so long to get their story straight? and more importantly i think for you and the position you're in, can't you admit this morning that the white house officials -- maybe not the president himself -- but the white house officials were too slow briefing you and briefing other leaders of the senate on

what happened in those early days, and that caused a lot of the chaos in >> what wept wrong? >> to be truthful look, i'm not making any excuses for anybody, but i got a call from tom nides. i said it's important to come up and brief everybody. they said of course. they did that when they were able to find out what happened. but in the fog of these things, you though -- >> but weren't there a lot of complaints that actually you guys got less information than "the new york times" got in stories? >> there were times in the first briefing, but the house, it's funny, there was a difference between the house and the senate. i can't tell you why it was. the briefings of the house, everybody was very comfortable and felt it was complete. maybe people were tired, it wasn't as complete in the senate. the bottom line is this. the president called it an act of terror. and mitt romney tried last night to suggest he didn't, and candy crowley had to even hold him accountable to that. you don't play games with national security.

before anybody knew the facts, mitt romney was politicizing this issue. and that is not a presidential -- you don't do that if you're running for president. you get the facts. he criticized this administration, accused them of creating this event before he even knew what the full measure of the event was. that's not presidential. that's not the heardship we nle need. i can tell you how the president feels. we feel it. chris stevens worked on our committee. he worked for dick lugar. i knew him. and all of us felted that loss. we want the facts. and we'll get the facts. but, you know, you don't make something like that -- look at sean smith's mother, complaining that romney is politicizing it. look at chris stevens's father. he says, don't make my son a political football. people should have the decency in this kind of situation to understand that some things are not politics, all the time, every minute. >> all right.

>> senator kerry, it's always good to see you. thank you for coming. >> happy to be here. >> ready to go this morning. >> no, it's great. we appreciate you being here. i hope i didn't jar you with my humility. >> joe, you made my day. >> and my mother didn't scare you the other night? >> i love your mother. she's fabulous. and your dad. she's great. >> i would have liked to have been there. >> i learned about you spilling -- >> uh-oh. >> -- something on chinese -- >> spilled caviar on xaoping's crotch. it was in 1978. the historic opening. and what did 9-year-old mika brzezinski start to do? immediately went down to the lap and wiped it off. sitting next to the great leader. horrified. >> it was a great story. >> thanks. coming up, republican governor of louisiana, bobby jindal, joins us. keep it right here on "morning

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starting next week, we'll be live in boca. >> that's exciting. >> special coverage of the final

presidential debate. if you're around monday and tuesday, stop by racks downtown eatery and tavern. >> that's a nice place. >> at mizner park starting at 5:30 a.m. still ahead, chuck todd and andrea mitchell for their thoughts on last night's rematch between the president and governor romney. and up next, louisiana governor bobby jindal. he's going to join us at the table. we're going to talk about lsu and alabama. >> oh, boy. >> that's the only issue. governor, good to see you, buddy. with the spark cash card from capital one,

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jindal. eugene robinson and john heilemann back with us at the table as well. very good to have you on board. >> great to have you here. we'll talk about lsu football in a minute because lsu/alabama, most important game of the year, right? >> most important issue. i know there's a little about debate and other politics going on, but the most important issue in the country. >> this is it. >> the rematch. this was the grudge match last year, split the series, beat alabama at home. obviously very disappointing championship game. they've got to come to death valley. and i tell you what. >> when's that? >> i'm not trying to create locker room material because coach saban doesn't need it, but our tigers are fierce at home. i'm not looking past a&m. we've got to play them in an 11:00 game, an odd time this saturday. we've got a bye week and then after that everybody's gearing up. we're going to start tailgating, as soon as a&m's done, we'll start tailgating for the next two weeks nonstop. >> the first weekend in november. >> louisiana governor guarantees victory. i like it. there you go.

>> i'm going to start tailgating right now. >> we can do that right after the show. >> who says we're not? >> so bobby, we just had john kerry on. and john was talking about how he thought mitt romney's numbers didn't add up. what's your take on that, and what's your take on the debate last night? >> obviously, i'm going to have a different perspective than senator kerry. i thought that governor romney did well last night. i think with the president, all the speculation is on which president obama's going to show up. you know, the first debate, it was clint eastwood's empty chair. last night it was the red bull-caffeinated president obama. i thought one of the most important questions was, mr. president, i voted for you last time. why should i vote for you this time? one of the things that was striking, you didn't hear the president talk about his vision for the next four years. what are his domestic priorities? it was striking to me. four years ago he talked about hope and change and now he's really saying i know things are tough, but we're doing our best.

i thought that was one of the most striking things of the debate. >> we're doing our best, let's face it, some jobs are leaving and they're never coming back. it is striking, he really didn't talk about the next four years. mitt romney hasn't really laid out a comprehensive plan over the next four years either, and it depresses a lot of voters. as you know, we're in a pivotal time, whether you talk about medicare, medicaid, social security, tax reform, be forming our defense system so we don't have to spend more money than the 17 countries combined. are you hearing that from mitt romney either? >> you are right. this is a critical time. the decisions made by the next congress are generational decisions and the reality is, if we want to reform, we should

have started making changes years ago. if we're going to have a balanced budget, we need to start making those changes immediately. flatter taxes that allow us to be competitive, we have to make those changes now. >> why isn't that happening? you do it in louisiana. other governors do it. you have been calling for this like i have and other conservatives. why is it so hard for washington to get this done, governor? >> i think it's going to take structural changes. i don't think it's a matter of ee equi electing the right people. when the republicans were in charge, the super majority before you raise taxes. at the state level, at least in louisiana you have constitutional restrictions on bonding out future revenues and playing games. i think just electing -- every three years we get guys that

say, vote for me and i'll make it better but then they go there and make they become part of the problem. >> so let me -- you said that the president didn't lay out a vision for the next four years but -- and he said things are tough, we're doing our best. he also does have a record to run on, a record that includes saving the auto industry, housing prices going up, foreclosuring going down, unemployment at a four-year low. lending happening again. so that compares to mitt romney's five-point plan that doesn't added a up. isn't there an argument there that the president has data on his side. >> unemployment is where it was when he started. he promised us he would get the economy turned around. he promises he would cut the deficit in half. he's borrowed a trillion dollars

every year. he said he was going to cut health care premiums $2500. health care premiums have gone up $2500. i think there is a track record. gasoline prices have almost doubled. governor romney said let's cut tax rates 20%. >> can we drap him in? can he do the third debate for mitt romney? you listen to this and there are so many great points to be made. bobby jindal made them. >> let's have all of those people that are are now covered dropped. that's a good idea. >> the current system doesn't work. you've got to help people, especially with pre-existing conditions. you can do that for people with continuous coverage, they shouldn't face discrimination. they should be able to move plan to plan. a lot of times people can't move jobs because they can't afford to be without their insurance. people buying insurance with pre-existing conditions, there

should be resources, whether it's re-insurance, tax credits. i don't think anyone is arguing for the status quo but putting 16 million people more on medicaid is not the answer. it's now $1.7 trillion, over $500 billion in tax increases and over $700 billion in medicare cuts that rick foster says aren't sustainable, aren't -- >> and a conservative as well came up with the concept. you guys are so -- you have a way of -- you're good, governor jindal. >> we would love to have you come back. >> we should. >> after the election and talk about health care. because you really do. >> it's a good debate. you're one of the top health care experts. >> still ahead, chuck todd.

we'll be back in just a moment. i've worked hard to build my family.

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eugene, thank you so much.

thank god for you. >> how has the raise shaped? >> let's wait for the tiebreaker on monday. >> we're going to be there. >> i just got really tired. the biggest moments from last night's debate and a look at where the campaigns go from here. just 20 days to go until the election. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ♪ ♪ hi dad. many years from now, when the subaru is theirs... hey. you missed a spot. ...i'll look back on this day and laugh. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. three words dad, e-trade financial consultants. they'll hook you up with a solid plan.

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waters in half. >> not true, governor romney. not true. >> how much did you cut them? >> governor, we have actually produced more oil -- >> how much did you cut permits on federal lands and waters? >> governor romney, here is what we did. >> i had a question, and the question is, how much did you cut it by? >> i'm happy to answer the question. >> production on government land on oil is down 14%. >> governor, what you are saying is just not true. >> i don't think anyone really believes that you're a person that will promote oil and gas and coal. >> good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. time to wake up as you take a live look at new york city. >> what did you think of that debate? >> it was fantastic, be sweet jesus, to use your words.

>> who do you think won? >> i think it's pretty clear. okay. so where do you want to begin? >> how about the debate? >> how about reaction to the debate? >> really? you want to start with the debate? last time we did the debate, you started with baseball. that's why i asked. i thought it was fascinating. >> who do you think won? >> i think it's fair to say the president did a lot better and probably won the debate. i think romney kind of laid out the red carpet for him to hone in on romney's weaknesses. romney was weak last night, especially on libya. mark halperin, what do you think? >> i think the president won, especially on libya. i think potentially taking the issue off the table effectively the rest of the way, including in the national security debate and romney loses as a politician

when his opponents get inside his head on being rich and supporting policies that favor the rich. i think the president did that all night and romney showed it. the guy from den injury was largely not there. >> joe, what stood out to you? >> the first 20 minutes of the poll was the fact that this is a format, like we said yesterday, that didn't really play to mitt romney's strength. >> yeah. >> he came on way too strong. one thing that all challengers should be aware of, if you're going to be running for president of the united states, a few things you don't do in debates, one, you don't run over a female moderator. jim lehrer, fine, you can get out a knife and have a knife fight with jim lehrer. but you don't do that with a female moderator. it's problematic. secondly, you don't run over the president of the united states,

whether that president is a republican or a democrat. there are independent voters that believe a president should be treated with deference because he's the commander in chief. >> you do that carefully. with all due respect. >> and the mitt romney we saw yesterday was a mitt romney who was very successful at cutting off newt gingrich and rick perry and herman cain when the stakes were far lower and it took him about 20 minutes to figure out he just couldn't be that much of a bulldozer. >> well, when he said that thing to the president at one point, you'll get your turn. that was an incredibly condescending i'm the ceo patronizing way of treating the president. look, the other thing is, in exactly the same way, this debate was, i thought, the mirror image of denver. mitt romney had a strategy and

executed it and the president didn't. in this debate, the president was much more engaged and energetic and also he was trying to do specific things and he largely got those things done and romney was mostly defensive and reactive. to mark's point as the president being in his head, he does not -- i thought the reason this format would not work well with him is because of the interacting with the audience. he doesn't like to be challenged directly and when he is challenged directly, he does tend to get a little rattled. >> and the physical nature of this setting worked better for romney last time because it was much more controlled and he's a man that likes everything to be controlled and in place and this was less so with candy and the audience and then the president and the moving around the stage. willard, would you agree with that? >> yes. there was sort of an al gore

moment. he was walking and the president gave him a look. he was forced to go back, as mark pointed out, was the president's strategy. he had to go back and answer a previous question after a voter had asked him something very specific and very pointed on another subject. said, i want to go back to that in a second. president obama strategically had a good debate. >> dominating the debates the way that he did up until this point had worked. lat nig last night it did not. when you have the americans asking you questions and running over, again, a female moderator, very dangerous to do. when you're talking about swing voters, disinterested voters that are just now getting engaged and you've got to always be careful how you treat the president of the united states, be it george w. bush or barack obama. >> there were some fascinating moments. we'll start there, since you brought it up, because i actually noticed a change in romney' voice after this moment and it was -- it's almost as if

the moment had got into his head. take a look. >> i've got to move you along. >> he actually got the first question so i get the last answer on that one. >> actually, in the follow up it doesn't quite work like that. but i'm going to give you a chance. i promise you i'm going to. the next question is for you. if you want to continue on -- but i don't want to leave all of these people sitting here. >> candy, i'm used to being interrupted. >> we're going to move on to taxes. >> you get the point. >> the big question, though, that i think most republicans looked at as mitt romney's missed opportunity, the moment where he had a chance to turn the debate around and sprint to the finish line and at least call it a draw was his answer to the libya question which was just absolutely stunned at how badly he did. i saw charles say the same

thing, be laura ingraham and it's because he botched the answer to a question that referred to -- it was a toss up. some think that the question was planted where the biggest scandal -- i think the foreign scandal and mitt romney botched it it. >> the president was taking responsibility for what happened to the four americans losing their lives and this is definitely one of those moments where republicans were probably screaming at the tv, looking at his opponent in the eye and he says he doesn't play politics on matters of national security. >> while we were still dealing with our dip me mats being threatened, governor romney put out a press release, trying to make political points.

and that's not how a commander in chief operates. you don't turn national security into a political issue. >> does the buck stop with your secretary of state as far as what went on here? >> secretary clinton has done an extraordinary job but she works for me and that's why no one is more interested in finding out exactly what happened than i do. the day after the attack, governor, i stood in the rose garden and i told the american people and the world that we were going to find out exactly what happened, that this was an act of terror, and i also said that we're going to hunt down those who committed this crime. and the suggestion that anybody in my team, whether it's the secretary of state, our u.n. ambassador, anybody on my team would play politics or mislead when we've lost four of our own,

governor, is offensive. that's not what we do. that's not what i do as president, that's not what i do as commander in chief. >> i think it's interesting the president just said something which is that on the day after the attack he went in the rose garden and said that this was an act of terror. >> that's what i said. >> you said in the rose garden, the day ever the attack, it was an act of terror. is that what you're saying? >> please proceed, governor. >> i want to make sure we get that for the record because it took the president 14 days before he called the attack in benghazi an act of terror. >> he did in fact, sir. let me call it it an act of terror. he did call it an act of terror. it did as well take -- it did as well take two weeks or so for the whole idea of there being a

riot. >> here's what president obama said, in quotes, the world must stand together unequivocally reject these brutal acts. no acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. the bigger picture, a missed opportunity for mitt romney. >> yeah. i mean, a missed opportunity and there were quite a few missed opportunities, actually, for mitt romney, where, again, it was very clear that he was thrown off with this debate style. had he been behind the podium, he had a couple of slam dunks that just laid up for him that he should have put away and he just didn't do it. there were some fascinating discrepancies in these polls

that we ought to talk about and you guys tell me what it means. >> this one has uncommitted voters and 37% call it a tie. a cnn orc poll has 46% in favor of the president. according to both polls, romney won on the issue of the economy. with the cbs polls showing 58% on the economy. >> mike barnicle, that's quite a divergence when you talk about who won the debate and who won on the economy. some people that say he won the debate were just talking about style points when they turned right around and said it seemed like romney by a 31-point margin in the cbs poll would do a better job on the economy. >> yeah. i don't know what these instant polls mean, if they mean anything at all, joe, after a debate like that. what i think is meaningful is that the clips that we just showed, the president of the

united states showed up for that debate, especially when he turned around and established eye contact, perhaps for the first time in either of these two debates with governor romney, eye contact and said, that's not what we do. that was the president of the united states. and that was -- that was a critical moment for governor romney and his campaign because it was the first time that the president showed up and prior to that i think cosmetically, i get the feeling, just instinctively, that there's a lot of people who were watching that debate, some of them undecided who know, like in life, in campaign and in debates, there is a very thin line between confidence and arrogance and i'm wondering how many people out there thought that governor romney crossed that line. >> mark halperin, let's talk about the polls. what's with the divergence and who won and economy is number one this year. >> it's kind of baffling.

we often have conflicting data. this is very baffling. going into the debate, the question was, would the president have another bad debate and he didn't have a bad debate. he had bad moments, as governor romney did. there's no one in the country who said anything to me or in my own judgment that's compelling about what this does to the race. i don't think that anybody knows. not just in terms of looking -- >> it didn't certainly, though, stop the bleeding. >> i'm not willing to say that -- i certainly don't think it accelerates it, necessarily, but i don't know that it stops romney's march towards closing the gaps because of advertising and other factors. in other words, don't know that it put the president in a stronger position, even though he got the better of the contest. not only because of the mixed data but because of the confusion of how people would view that in its totality. i just don't know. >> i think the president's tone was pitch perfect, not only in

showinging up but also in not going overboard. he kept it within a very good range in terms of style. just wondering why romney, who made so many opening -- started with an opening about detroit -- did you have -- >> the president did not lay out a second term agenda and if there's an undercurrent here that could really hurt him, not in the room because it wasn't evident that it was beabsence. he didn't lay out an agenda as he didn't in the first debate and that is where it's weak. >> mitt romney was doing great until midway through the second question and he brings up detroit himself and when he brings up detroit, he stumbles into it terribly, talking about he didn't want to bankrupt it, the president bankrupted it and

it was this rambling issue and the answer to the question i had was, why did mitt romney, on his second question, where the question was actually set up for him to kill it, veer into detroit and stumble around? that was a terrible mistake. we also had libya. why did he stumble around on libya? also what they are saying for the president, too, a lot of these questions were set up. it sounded like they were almost setup questions in the audience for the president. i know they weren't. but when i hear immigration and i think, obama is going to kill this one, obama is going to get pounded? no, just the opposite. the president stammered around on immigration. listen, i think what you gave the president a b minus and romney a c, right? >> he's a tough grader. >> he is a tough grader. >> i don't want to be in your

class. >> neither of these guys blew it away last night but the president did much better. but i don't think anyone tuning in that is uncommitted said, oh, my gosh, barack obama has shown us the way to the promise land over the next four years. >> no. but to your point, joe, and to marry up one of your points to mark's points, people showed up wanting to know if the president would have another bad performance but the biggest question when voters looked at the denver debate, does this guy actually want to be president? is he actually willing to fight for his job? and i think he answered that yesterday pretty compellingly. he showed up and fought for his job. he fought for it yesterday. he wanted it. >> he corrected from the first one and when romney wasn't telling the truth, went at him. >> and i think people -- that really sends a really important signal that matters to people because i do think voters think if you're not willing to fight for your job, you're not willing

to fight for them. when we come back, be what both campaigns need to do, we'll bring in chuck todd, andrea fineman, howard fineman and andrea mitchell. >> your recommend ares were welcome. thank you very much for that. let's talk about what is happening weatherwise. across the country, a big storm developing in the northern plains and this is going to slide through the east coast over the neck few days. it's developing up there in the dakotas. it's been a very windy few days. who is at risk today for the bad weather and the airport delays? we're going to focus on areas from chicago to st. louis, down

through little rock and memphis. we could see strong storms and tornadoes near arkansas. we're going to track this storm ever so slowly to the east coast but first things first, here's the area of concern for severe weather. that's the area i highlighted from memphis to little rock and then tomorrow that rain move through the ohio valley. also down through the mid-atlantic. and then if you have plans, especially in new england, that's when the storm arrives and the possibility of airport delays. in other words, if you want to avoid those nasty days, try to get your plans tomorrow, friday, or saturday. temperatures in the mid-60s. it doesn't matter. they are on the ice anyway. wanna see me get some great deals?

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we have not made the progress we need to make to put people back to work. that's what gets america 12 million new jobs in four years and a rising take-home pay. >> governor romney says he has a five-point plan? he has a one-point plan. and that is to make sure that folks at the top play by a different set of rule. that's been his philosophy in the private sector and as a presidential candidate. >> welcome back to "morning joe."

joining us is host of the daily rundown, chuck todd, and host of andrea mitchell reports, andrea mitchell and editorial director of the huffington group, howard fineman and mike barnicle is still with us and mark halperin. have you seen the new york post? that's what he is. mark halperin is at the game chase camera. >> no zumba. >> you didn't see him in there? barnicle -- >> there is no way he looks that good. >> i travel well. >> here's what we're going to do. so get ready. i try and speak in short pops because i want to get a lot of sound bites in. we're going to start with one. obama went there with mitt romney on the 47%.

take a listen. >> i think the president's campaign has tried to characterize me as someone who is very different than who i am. i care about 100% of the american people. i want 100% of the american people to have a bright and prosperous future. i care about our kids. i understand what it takes to make a bright and prosperous future for america again. i spent my life in the private sector, not in government. i'm a guy who want to help with the experience that i have, the american people. >> i believe governor romney's a good man. loves his family, cares about his faith. but i also believe that when he said behind closed it door doors that 47% of the country consider themselves victim who refuse personal responsibility, think about who he was talking about. >> let's go around the table quickly.

chuck todd, it seemed like romney just said, you haven't p mentioned the 47% so i'll mention the 100% to remind you of the 47%. >> let's remember what that question was. i loved that last question. that's one of the few where i felt like as an undecided voter, most people ask questions, you're an undecided voter, okay, once again, heck of a job gallup. but that last question -- that last question felt genuinely fortunately a -- it was one of the cut through the clutter of the ads and stereotypes, what do you think. i thought it was a little bit of a tell on romney when he said, hey, i care about -- they know the 47% was an issue. now, the president, by the way, remember what he said was not fair was the whole idea that he wants to grow government, that he believes that government creates jobs. that's the stereotype that was out there. it was interesting that the gag before that was the only time the number 47 happened was when the question came up about

ak-47s. >> right. i don't know why mitt romney went there, bringing up detroit. here are the candidates about the auto bailout. >> when governor romney said we should let detroit go bankrupt, i said we're going to bet on the workers. >> you actually did and i think it's important to know that that was a process that was necessary to get those companies back on their feet so they could start hiring more people. that was precisely what i recommended and ultimately what happened. >> what governor romney said just isn't true. he wanted to take them into bankruptcy without providing them any way to stay open and we would have lost a million jobs and don't take my word for it. take the executives at gm and chrysler, some of whom are republicans, may even support governor romney. but they will tell you that his prescription wasn't going to work. >> howard, you take this one.

>> mitt romney managed to get into the one shining example of success, at least the most shining example of success that the president has on the economy. mitt romney's strength -- and he showed it in the debate time and time again, is to say, look, you didn't reach all of the promises that you said you were going to. you didn't produce the results. >> right. >> whenever mitt romney was behind, he could always resort to that and that's what has made him a big deal in this election. however, the auto story is the most big story for ohio, plays well in the midwest states and michigan, so on. that's the president's strongest single example of how they can make government work. >> mark halperin, agree? >> i think -- for me, the whole election is about ohio. assuming romney wins virginia, i think the race is over.

if governor romney wins both ohio and virginia, he's in a good position. what has killed him is the auto sector. he tried to address it last night. i suspect he's going to have to keep addressing it. i'm sure the obama campaign is going to bring it up. i don't think it was smart for him to bring it up and i don't think he handled it particularly well. >> i actually felt bad for him. >> it is a huge political issue in ohio they are going to have to diffuse if they win the state. >> and it's not just an auto story, it's an ohio story because that's where a lot of the parts are made. the next is for mike barnicle because it's about women. female equality in the workplace. >> an important topic and one in which i learned a great deal about, particularly as i was serving as governor of my state because i had the chance to pull together a cabinet and all of

the applicants seem to be men. so we took a concerted effort to go out and find women who had background who could be qualified to be women in our cabinet. i said, can you help us find folks and brought us whole binders full of women. >> all right. you guys didn't bring your binders? >> i was going to bring one in today but i figured mike would. >> i brought my binder full of women? >> how did that work? and i thought it was an opportunity for the president to talk about what he's done. did he take it? >> he took it sort of, not quite as much as maybe he could have and he talked about lilly ledbetter. i think he missed an opportunity on contraception because he didn't challenge mitt romney on -- mitt romney voted on more than just contraception. he didn't go as far as he could have. there was a lot of stuff back and forth. i think the real take away here

was just the sort of vibe and the physicality of it. >> yeah. >> john meacham was saying earlier, a debate where the two of them were in each other's face. we talked about what happened with al gore getting in front of george w. be's face in 2000 but this was like two roosters going at each other. that could turn off women and independent voter. of the two, i thought romney was too aggressive in cutting off candy. she was making the point that these people, these undecided voters want to ask questions and you're taking up their time. >> why is that especially offensive to women? >> because it was just too much test toast roan. howard, if you have to ask. >> okay. >> but the president did not have enough warmth. here he's got a jury in front of him and he's not -- as chuck was just saying off air, he's not

bill clinton. he didn't have that -- he didn't smile. he should have made the same aggressive points because his base wanted him to be a fighter but he should have had a smile on his face as romney did in denver. >> i think he made the case in terms of women and their role with the family and their power out there and economically what his administration has done starting with the lilly ledbetter act. i think if he had gone off too deep, women want jobs. >> i think romney might have been effective on the economic issues. >> mike barnicle? >> listen, women are more instinctively insightful as they happen. men are more emotional, my guy won, my guy won. but when you look at these two guys going against each other, what are their feelings about this? how come they are not addressing

the specifics of our lives? and when mitt romney at one point says to the president of the united states -- >> that was the moment. >> i'll give you some advice. you want some advice? what's going to be the reaction? >> it was too alpha male and it was -- it was very alpha male and i think the holy grail is suburban women. and i'm sorry, the conversations i've seen and focus groups are about comity, not comedy. comity. you know what last night was, last night was everything that people hate about politics. it felt like -- >> if that prevents those undecided women from turning out, then i think that's going to hurt the president more than it help -- hurts mitt romney. >> this is a not a group that isn't going to vote. they vote. but i thought this isn't -- as you said, that was a very civil first debate.

civil and substantive. this was talking points, 30 second tv ads and uncivil. >> i want to know how those undecided women are going to decide in the voting booth to excess display of roosterism that they saw last night and i think the tie goes to the challenger in this case. >> andrea? >> we keep bringing up roosters. >> roosterism. >> you have to keep your head on a swivel. i keep thinking tom burgundy. >> forget social issues, forget even -- >> as you were saying, he didn't get to that. >> he didn't. >> but i do think on libya it was a huge mistake by romney to raise a question without knowing the answer because if you look at the transcript and you played it earlier of what happened in the rose garden that day, it was

clear that the president did talk about a terror attack and the death of four people. >> it was the mistake on semantics, though, lesson substance and the problem is, romney got caught up. he's got a whole on the way homers that are sitting there saying, what we really meant was that. >> you know what the biggest mistake may have been, its was visually. eye contact between the president president of the united states and governor romney on libya when his eyes said to her, i, the president of the united states. >> john kerry was the stand-in. >> you know that wasn't -- >> it was effective. >> by the way, i watched the debate last night with joe and rahm emanuel. >> that's a focus group. >> yeah. >> how does that work? >> it's amazing. joe was listening and quiet and tweeting. ari, jumping off the walls. is seriously, like spiderman.

>> ari's not quiet? >> nope. >> mark halperin, final thoughts? >> the president has the upper hand with women voters and governor romney's staff believes he will work well with women. and the next polls are going to be critical as obviously as the debate where national security and economics will be a part of the last big debate. >> just absolutely fascinating. howard fineman, thank you very much. chuck, we'll see you in a few minutes on "the daily rundown." andrea, if you could stay with us, that would be great. all right. we'll be right back. i'm a conservative investor.

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wiss will play ohio state in a football state. tell the people of ohio who is going to win that game. >> they -- boy, they spoiled us last year. we spoiled them the year before and we were at that game. it really depends on who has the better record. it always depends on who has the

better record. >> what is going on? they went on and on about that. >> they picked a winner. come on now. another look at the morning papers. we'll start with the washington post. the president of the france is promising to put an end to homework. >> thank god. >> as part of a sweeping overhaul of the country's education overhaul. he says it's not fair. some kids get help from their parents and other children from disadvantaged families do not. we'll go to the "san francisco chronicle." san francisco is a finalist to host the 2015 or 2017 super bowl. for the big day this season, beyonce took to her blog to say that she'll be performing at the super bowl on sunday, february 3rd. >> the headline, no problem. st. louis cardinals continue

their march towards a second world series title. game three, national league championships against the giants. tied at one game apiece and it's a pretty good series. >> tyler mathison when we come back. ♪ these are the days [ male announcer ] in the blink of an eye, they're all grown up. marie callender's homemade tastes are another great reason to sit down, and savor every last moment. ♪ because time flies... right before your eyes. marie callender's. it's time to savor.

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open a fidelity cash management account today and discover another reason serious investors are choosing fidelity. it's 47 past the hour. tyler mathison, tyler, this is a story we haven't been given enough time. vikram pandit steps down as the ceo. the market is focused on the financial industry. this time it's bank of america. >> it has been a big week for bank earnings and today's entry in the parade and it came in

roughly from the profit line. the revenue story was different. they pulled in about $20 billion in revenue. that's a wonderful number but lower than last year and actually lower than what the expectations were. this is, in part, because the company on the profit side had to take a big charge for settling at a price of $2.4 billion charges that they did not fully disclose some of the particulars tracing back to the bank's acquisition, way back went, 2008, of merrill lynch. a story here as we focus on pandit, there will continue to be focus on the ceo of brian moynihan as he tries to steer that company to a better day. something that didn't come up in the debate last night, at least specifically, was yesterday's bankruptcy of another company in the energy sector that had received energy grants.

the company is called a-123. they are a lithium ion battery company. they had received $132 million of a $249 million federal grant and it's another example of the danger in trying to seed companies with federal money that sometimes doesn't work out. the assets are continuing to work in the battery business bought by one of the biggest battery companies in the country, johnson controls. a little bit curious that this did not come up but i guess they had other things to focus on. >> they were and the questions weren't there as well. tyler mathison, it's good to see you again. >> thank you. >> we're back with more "morning joe" in just a second.

the romney's campaign is on defense over this paul ryan photo op at a soup kitchen. they ram rodded their way in so romney could get his picture taken. >> don't fault paul ryan here, folks. i say he's the victim. and i've got a message for those who have been so quick to judge this good man. hi. i'm stephen colbert with save

the candidates. this is paul. some day he wants to be vice president of the united states but he needs your help. for just a few minutes a day you can provide paul with a photo op he desperately needs to look like he cares. anything you give will help. a handful of orphans to stand near, a disabled vet to wave at, even a homeless man to pet. won't you call now and help him live up to your dreams of cutting all of your government funding? >> coming up tomorrow, caroline kennedy will be here. and the final presidential debate is on monday. if you're in the area, stop by racks downtown eatery in mizner

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of women. >> all right. john heilemann, i like mike barnicle. >> the hampton's peeper. >> what did you learn? >> i learned there's a corrilary to that. if you happen to see mike with a rain coat, run in the other direction. there's nothing else under that rain coat. >> andrea mitchell, what did you learn? >> the hardest job was secret service details, keeping those two guys apart. >> mark hall per rin? >> two state election. if romney wins them both, he wins. if he doesn't win them both, he doesn't win. >> i think he will win virginia. >> it's ohio, ohio, ohio. >> what did you learn? >> i'm still trying to process watching the debate with ohio

and ari and a giant cockroach. >> and i found out the most popular man in s in mississippi and boston. i was curtis and it was a remarkable place. he's just a remarkable guy. >> how many hands there because he has drinks in both hands. >> he's got two drinks. >> did you have simultaneous translation? >> yes, i did. mike said his job of stopping drinking is -- >> go to red wine. >> curtis, we miss you. hottie tottie. >> right now it's time for chuck and he's right here with us. >> fiery, fety