with wholesome noodles and bite sized chicken, nothing brings you together like chicken noodle soup from campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do. a new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll shows president obama and mitt romney tied neck and neck at 47%, making this the first time in history that team romney is excited to actually talk about the 47%. it's monday, october 22nd and this is "now." joining me today, msnbc political analyst and executive editor of msnbc.com, our favorite import from the united kingdom, richard wolffe. and former dnc communications director and msnbc political analyst, the lovely karen finney. all even with one to go.

the new nbc news/"wall street journal" poll finds president obama and governor romney are tied among likely voters at 47%. as the two candidates head into their final debate tonight. last month, the president led by five points. at this point in 2004, president bush and senator john kerry were also all tied up. will this election end up favoring the incumbent as it did in 2004? this latest poll shows both candidates have paths to victory. governor romney has made demographic inroads. the president's lead among women is down to the lowest it has been this cycle and governor romney holds a ten-point lead among men. the president's support among white voters is down to 36%, 7% below the share of white voters who supported him in 2008. but on the economy, the centerpiece of governor romney's campaign, voters have more confidence that the nation is on the road to recovery. 41% of voters say the country is headed in the right direction, the highest number recorded by

this poll in three years. a plurality of voters believe the economy will get better over the next year while just 9% say it will get worse. the lowest number in decades. the president could get an additional boost from the final state unemployment report right before the election. released last friday. the jobless rate fell in 41 states, including every swing state except for virginia and new hampshire, which stayed the same. over the past year, the state unemployment rate has fallen by more than a full point in nevada, florida, ohio and north carolina. but if anything is clear in this race, it's the lack of clarity. which is to say anything could happen. writing today, peggy noonan sums it up, nobody's sleeping. that's the real political headline now. nobody working in the campaigns is sleeping. there are 349 hours until the last poll closes on election night and for both sides, there is not a minute to waste. joining us now from boca raton,

florida, the game changer himself, msnbc political analyst and "new york" magazine national affairs editor, john heilemann. john, always good to see you. >> alex, great to see you, too. we're here in the sunshine state but of course, the greatest source of sunshine in our world is not here. we miss you. >> oh, just buttering me up. i will take it, however. john, we talked, there may be romnesia on the campaign trail. there is also a certain amount of amnesia in the national press corps. we knew this thing would be tight. that said, given the economy improving and a rosier, distinctly rosier outlook if you believe the polls, are you surprised that the race is at close as it is, given how much improvement there's been on the unemployment numbers? >> well, certainly the fact that the economy is improving is good news for president obama but it's not improving that dramatically in terms of the -- i mean, the unemployment numbers dropped a little below 8%. the president is still weighed

down by the fact that only happened a month ago and he had four years worth of unemployment picture was stubbornly bad. we are also not seeing wages rising, not seeing gdp growth surging. it's not like we're on the verge of a big boom. we're seeing green shoots in terms of the economic outlook going forward. to me the most compelling number in the poll was one you didn't mention, although a lot of those numbers are really interesting, the ones you did mention, but it was the one that had two-thirds of voters saying they wanted to see dramatic change from president obama if he gets re-elected. >> we were saving that number for a little later in the discussion, but perhaps we can show our audience at home that full screen that we have prepared. there are no oversights on this television program. continue on, john, with your point about the major changes in the second term. >> i just think that that -- it goes directly to your question is the reason i raised it. i think president obama, there's no question that people feel that the economy has turned a corner and that there's an increasing amount of confidence about the economic outlook.

i don't think that is not translating into a big bump for president obama partly because he hasn't laid out a very specific set of policy agenda items for a second term and people still feel as though washington's not working right, they blame president obama for that, they blame republicans for that but generally they're frustrated with the overall state of how economic policy making is working on their behalf. so there are still a lot of questions about what president obama plans to do in his next term and still a lot of discomfort over the last four years. >> let's talk about that question of whether the president has painted a compelling enough picture of what he would do in a second term. i want to read a quote from e.j. dionne who offers a defense, if you will, of the president's next four years, if he does in fact get re-elected. he says romney's five-point plan sounds good but is quite vague. obama, by contrast, has been far more straightforward about what he would do about the deficit. he wants a budget deal that includes both spending cuts and

tax increases, he has put forward rather detailed deficit reduction proposals to disagree with some of obama's specifics is to acknowledge that the specifics exist. richard? >> he actually has put forward several jobs plans. they may not have gone anywhere with the republican congress, but that's a statement of fact. his deficit proposals, i remember seeing these big wedges of paper with deficit cutting proposals so look, i understand that a lot of people want things to change. among the people who want a dramatic change for the president if he gets a second term are a bunch of democrats. those numbers conflate all sorts of people who want washington to change and want this president to change, whether there are people who want him to completely reverse or be more successful on his current track. just because people keep saying there are no specifics doesn't mean to say conventional wisdom is true. >> i disagree and take issue with this idea he has put forward a vision. you could make the argument, i went back and reread the state of the union speech from earlier this year. there's a very clear vision. he talks about infrastructure spending, he talks yet again

about reducing dependence on foreign oil and increasing our sources of domestic energy production and how that's an investment that he wants to continue to the future. why? so that we can be more competitive in the global economy and those jobs don't go off to china. there's a whole both domestic and foreign policy and economic agenda that he's laid out and has talked about again and again and again, and simply because the republicans say that's not a vision, you know, the other piece of the vision when he talks about, and sometimes i think they are tone-deaf to this, the idea of a country where people get a fair shot and fair shake and all of that, and where everybody, when mitt romney says he's for the 100%, that's a talking point. when obama is talking, he's also talking about women, brown people, low income people. he's not just sort of using it as -- there's actually sort of a social civil rights policy agenda underneath that as well that i think he's also speaking to and not getting credit for. >> john, let's talk about the women issue. you have a column out this week or i guess it's monday, it came out last weekend, in terms of

the support that the president is losing among women, which i think is surprising to a lot of folks given the lead that he has. he's up by eight points but you make the point that if the first debate set the president back significantly and importantly with any group of the electorate it's the so-called waitress moms, white working class women in swing states, and that effectively those are the women he needs to get back quickly if he's going to win this thing. >> yes. i'll just say one thing quickly to the previous points. i totally agree with richard and with karen. i don't think the president hasn't had a jobs proposal or a deficit cutting proposal, but the bottom line is most people of undecided voters don't feel like they understand them. it's a political failure if he has those plans, he's not really actively campaigning on them and voters aren't hearing them with the degree of clarity they would need to in order to act on them. on the question of the waitress moms and white blue collar women, president obama had been overperforming in the swing states with that group of voters for most of the year. after the denver debate,

governor romney started to make gains with that group. president obama still has a lead with that group but is not overperforming in the way that he was a month ago, and if you look at where governor romney has made gains systematically across the board, it's mostly with that group. it's fascinating because you have two really different contrasting views about how to talk to that group of voters, between the two campaigns. they are both totally plausible. president obama has focused on planned parenthood, on the lilly ledbetter act. those are social issues with an economic component. with ledbetter it's a justice and pocketbook issue. planned parenthood is a women's and pocketbook issues. those issues poll very well for him and show up in focus groups doing very well for him. governor romney's response to that is to say none of that -- all this stuff, those are women's specific issues. i think what moves white working class women is the broader

economic argument. is president obama coming up with the jobs plan that works and secondly, is he addressing gas prices which cuts with that voter group and they are competing for that same group just with a very different theory of the case. >> karen, i thought this was surprising in the stats we have from the nbc news/"wall street journal" poll, the question of choice and abortion. 40% of the respondents said they were more likely to vote for a pro-choice candidate. 28% said they were more likely to vote for a pro-life candidate. in 2005 it was 35% for pro-choice, 32% for pro-life. this is more of an issue now. to the degree the obama campaign is -- that it's a hybrid sort of strategy, both economic and social, that would seem to be a good thing based on -- >> i'm going to disagree with john. part of the mistake the romney campaign is making is trying to get women to dissect these issues so we actually vote against our own self-interest. for women, these are economic issues. these aren't just social issues and frankly, the tone of the

conversation over the last year talking about redefining rape and legitimate rape and all these kind of things, has really been an insult to women. >> and largely on the right. >> also this question about birth control which many women thought wait a second, we resolved that. i have to tell you, i was in kansas and missouri last week and even conservative women were disgusted with the binders comment. i actually am not sure i think these national numbers are reflecting what's really going on with women because when you look at the state by state numbers, even the gallup data from last week showed, the third or fourth poll that shows issues about choice and access to contraception, those are issues people are going to vote on more so than the economy. i don't know that these national numbers are really capturing that. i can tell you as a board member for pro-choice america we identified 238,000 women in battleground states, 25 key counties, this is the issue that they will vote on and they will be voting for obama. >> before we go to break here, richard, the other thing, this is always -- these sort of

personality questions are always very interesting to me. in terms of the connecting the likability question, president obama is trouncing mitt romney, 57% to 25% on the easygoing likeable question. same with compassion and understanding average people, obama is 53%, romney is 29%. but when we come to commander in chief, it's a much, much more narrow. obama at 44%, romney at 41%. >> well, look, first thought, anyone's likability numbers can hold up and 8% unemployment and hundreds of millions of dollars of negative advertising, there's something there. at this point, that's not going to change. i suspect the debate tonight is going to move things around to that commander in chief question because mitt romney just hasn't had to explain a number of contradictory positions he's had on national security. i will say, though, it's a race against time. the fundamentals of this race are about the economy. all those economic numbers, including gas prices that john was talking about, they're coming down. unemployment, gas prices, the two biggest things that drive opinion poll numbers.

so how quick is that going to happen over the next couple weeks, how much is the president going to stabilize his own confidence in terms of enthusiasm among his base, you know, we just don't know. this debate is just another data point along the way. >> john, you're a partner in crime, dare i call him, mark halperin, those numbers about the likability and connecting, that's very good news for the president. or good news. i wouldn't want to paraphrase mark halperin. he's very exact in his language. do you agree on that? >> yeah, sure. those have -- the president has always had a real advantage over governor romney on that issue. governor romney managed to at least get his favorable and unfavorables into the positive, net positive category after the denver debate for the first time really in his entire six years of running for president. he's always suffered as not being a particularly likeable candidate. he's a little more likeable now. president obama still has a big advantage there. it's always been one of his key

assets going forward and i think it will continue to be a key asset for him but to richard's point, there were two different races against time going on here. one is that the economy's getting better and that helps president obama. the other is right now, governor romney has a lot of momentum in a lot of states. if you read a lot of the reporting that's coming out right now, the obama campaign is really on defense right now. it might be a defensive strategy that works, but they're looking at firewalls now. the race is increasingly coming down to ohio. governor romney's slowly making gains in ohio. president obama still has the advantage there. but you look around at where the president's going to be. he's in colorado, he's in nevada, he's in iowa, he's in wisconsin. those are firewall states and part of the race against time is not just a race against time from the romney side as to when economic conditions kick in in favor of the president, but can president obama outlast what is clearly right now a momentum shift that has gone and has been running governor romney's direction the past couple weeks. >> the race against time has caught up with us, my friend.

we have to say thank you and good afternoon to you. but thank you as always for your time and insight, john heilemann. >> toodle-loo. after the break, who knew foreign policy would play such a definitive role in the runup to november, between the thin red line in iran and the attack in libya, we have plenty to discuss. we will talk with p.j. crowley, next. humans -- even when we cross our t's and dot our i's, we still run into problems. namely, other humans. which is why, at liberty mutual insurance, auto policies come with new car replacement and accident forgiveness if you qualify.

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just in time for the presidential debate on foreign

policy, there is new turmoil in the middle east. this morning a soldier in jordan was killed by militants trying to cross into syria, a sign that the unrest in syria is spilling into neighboring countries. protests continue in beirut following a car bombing friday that killed lebanon's security chief. the opposition party in lebanon is claiming that syria's president is behind the attack. what could have the biggest impact on the debate tonight, a weekend report by the "new york times" asserts that the u.s. and iran have agreed on bilateral negotiations over the iranian nuclear program. both the white house and iranian officials deny there has been an agreement but on sunday, obama advisor david axelrod suggested that iranian willingness to negotiate is proof that the president's strategy is working. >> there's a tremendous disquiet in iran. their currency has dropped in value by 50%. their oil business has dropped by 50%. and they're feeling the heat. that's what the sanctions were meant to do. >> this morning, romney's senior foreign policy advisor dan senor

said his candidate would not rule out negotiations. >> it's got to be a comprehensive strategy. we should utilize a range of tools in our tool kit in achieving that diplomatic outcome. >> he would sit down for bilateral talks? >> his approach is we have to reach a diplomatic solution. he will not rule out any of these tools. let me be clear. as president he's going to have to assess the situation and make a judgment, what's the best way to get there. >> joining us from washington, former state department spokesman, p.j. crowley and here on set, msnbc contributor jonathan capehart of "washington post" and "new york times" magazine editor, mr. sunday morning himself, hugo lindgren. p.j., please give us some clarity and some answers here because i am so confused. as far as iran, the fact that dan senor is saying governor romney might not rule out one-on-one negotiations with the iranians over the nuclear program seems to have muddied the waters which are muddy

already over what a mitt romney foreign policy strategy would look like. it seems to basically be it would be a lot like president obama's strategy, only he would mean it more. how do you assess that? >> in fact, that is the conundrum for mitt romney. for example, the last 24 hours, you heard a republican talking point like lindsay graham saying hope obama doesn't take the bait and negotiate. if he doesn't negotiate, that leaves two unpopular and difficult policy options. one is iranian capitulation which is not likely to happen and the other is military conflict which would be very unpredictable and costly. so on this, this is actually a responsible foreign policy option to say he will have a comprehensive strategy which is exactly what obama has pursued over the past four years, a mixture of a willingness to negotiate but putting definite pressure on iran as we have seen in these sanctions. >> hugo, the foreign policy debate is a weird one, particularly weird one right

now. i think in many ways it's relevant, we just outlined all the things going on around the world but in terms of the republican and democratic party, there's been certainly over libya, a lot of criticism coming from the right over the white house's handling of events but in terms of measurable steps, things they would do differently, there has not been a ton of daylight -- >> there's some. i think the basic position of the romney campaign is that the u.s. can be more assertive, can say supply arms to the rebels in syria. that's a pretty big difference. there's an idea there that america can play a more interventionist role not in terms of boots on the ground but in terms of really being clear about trying to sway events one way or the other, whereas -- >> how is that different than what obama has been trying to do? >> they're not arming the rebels. >> we're not arming the rebels because we may not know if the rebels -- who's who among the rebels. it's not a question mitt romney has had to answer. >> i also want to say, once the republicans sort of sow the seeds of military intervention and boots on the ground, they run up against the wall of public opposition to more

military -- >> i don't think they are talking about boots on the ground, u.s. boots on the ground. >> that's why it's such an interesting difference in what dan senor is saying opposed to where romney seemed to be going a few weeks ago. biden is trying to push him to say are you keeping american forces on the ground longer in afghanistan, are you saying you would commit forces to iran and syria. that is a death knell for romney. now they backed them up going into this debate because they know a strong majority does not want intervention, does not want boots on the ground, wants more multilateralism. does romney even know, by the way, that in this negotiation process that russia happens to be part of the p-5 plus 1 talks? our big great enemy? he'll have to talk to them. does he even know that? >> jonathan, i want to talk about libya, too. that is certain to come up tonight. there has been a lot of criticism this weekend, marco rubio on cbs suggesting sort of i won't say conspiracy theories but sort of.

let's listen to what he said this sunday. >> one of the narratives that the obama campaign has laid out is that bin laden is dead, they bragged about that forever, and that al qaeda is in retreat. and you start to wonder, did they basically say do not allow any story to emerge that counters that narrative. is that why for two weeks, they told us that the libyan incident in benghazi was a popular uprising and not a terrorist attack because it ran counter to their campaign narrative? i hope that that's not true but that's what you start to wonder about. >> you start to wonder about it. i will read from david ignatius in the "washington post" today. the currently available information suggests that the demonstrations in benghazi were spontaneously inspired by the protests at the u.s. embassy in cairo and evolved into a direct assault against the u.s. consulate and subsequently its annex. there are indications that -- there are indications that extremists participated in the

violent demonstrations. nbc news has not confirmed this, but certainly, the more you get into this, which yes, has been complicated, i do not think white house messaging has been particularly transparent on this, but there is a cia assessment that suggests that susan rice was not obfuscating. >> right. nbc news hasn't confirmed but david ignatius is a fantastic reporter. when he had this column out i think it was saturday, talking about what susan rice said on the sunday shows was directly from cia talking points from the day before. here's the thing. when it comes to politics, it's all black and white. good versus evil, you're right, i'm wrong, the whole thing. when it comes to foreign affairs and international relations, foreign policy, you're dealing with a murky world of gray. as we're seeing with the cia assessments, what they say on monday could very well be different on tuesday, different on wednesday, because they are getting reports in from the

field, information comes in, they reinterpret and if you read any of these cables, they are filled with all of these mushy words like the evidence suggests that maybe this is happening. >> as we know from darrell issa, guess what, there might have been a cia operation going on on that compound and that may be why the cia didn't actually declassify those cables the republicans are now hitting president obama saying they knew that it may not have been spontaneous. those cables weren't actually declassified by the cia for several days. >> p.j., i want to go back to you on this in terms of the politicizing, making libya a political football. there has been accusations on both the right and the left, certainly darrell issa's actions this weekend have outraged a lot of folks on the left saying this was completely inappropriate, you're doing this because it's campaign season. those on the right are saying the president hasn't been forthcoming with the american public because in fact it is election season. what is your read on sort of who gets stuck with the hot potato

in the end on this as far as this being a political football? >> well, it's regrettable because from inside government, as i was for 30 years, for the intelligence community to spend eight days before matt olson to come out and say yes, this was an act of terrorism, which is applying a legal definition in terms of understanding not only what happened but also the political agenda behind it, actually from a government standpoint, was lightspeed. i am uncomfortable that we want to politicize this. going back to the former administration, it took them about a year before they were able to say you know, the intelligence on weapons of mass destruction in iraq turned out to be wrong. so these things are complicated and do take some time. i think for romney, he's got some advantages here because you not only have the situation in libya, you have this news of a potential attack in jordan, you've got the mayhem now in lebanon spilling out from syria. he can make an effective attack

against the president saying he took kind of an arm's length view to events in the arab spring that haven't turned out so well and the pictures tend to support that narrative. i think he's tried as chris said this morning, he's tried twice to swing at libya, it hasn't connected yet. so it will be interesting to see how he approaches this tonight. >> somehow the need for speed on intelligence gathering doesn't really ring so -- i don't know that that's the greatest biggest most powerful arrow in one's quiver given what you just outlined that sometimes folks need to do the actual factual research before they can go out proclaiming things to be the work of extremist terrorists or not. at any rate, we will see tonight. thank you to p.j. crowley for your time and expertise and answers, my friend. thank you. tonight's final great debate begins right at 9:00 eastern with prime-time coverage kicking off at 5:00 p.m. here on msnbc. coming up, medicare or

medi-scare? some republicans are recruiting their mothers to make the case for medicare reform. if romneyland is having trouble articulating -- i am having trouble articulating anything in the english language -- what about their mothers? we'll have a full diagnosis ahead. [ male announcer ] at scottrade, you won't just find us online, you'll also find us in person, with dedicated support teams at over 500 branches nationwide. so when you call or visit, you can ask for a name you know. because personal service starts with a real person. [ rodger ] at scottrade, seven dollar trades are just the start. our support teams are nearby, ready to help. it's no wonder so many investors are saying... [ all ] i'm with scottrade. with a vial and syringe. me, explaining what i was doing at breakfast. and me discovering novolog mix 70/30 flexpen.

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florida senator and romney surrogate marco rubio wants voters to know that the gop has no plans to change medicare for current seniors. if you don't believe him, just ask his mom. >> if you're 81 years old like my mom, you can't afford and you can't sustain the disruptiveness of an immediate change to her plan. number one, they've paid into that plan all of these years. they have retired without promise and at 81 years of age, you're not in a position now to all of a sudden accept wholesale changes to the way the health care is delivered for you. >> but reassurances aside, what would a romney presidency really

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syou know, i've helped a lot off tpeople save a lot of money. severe allergy but today...( sfx: loud noise of large metal object hitting the ground) things have been a little strange. (sfx: sound of piano smashing) roadrunner: meep meep. meep meep?

(sfx: loud thud sound) what a strange place. geico®. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. we don't always agree but i know he'll fight to protect medicare and that's what matters most. don't believe the lies. shawn will do what's right for medicare and seniors. >> you can trust larry to protect medicare. you should know. i trusted him with my daughter. >> richard murdoch cares about seniors and he won't let us down. i should know. i'm his father. >> my mother's 81 and depends on medicare. we can save medicare without changing hers, but only if younger americans accept that our medicare will be different than our parents' when we retire. >> across the country, republicans are enlisting the help of their parents in an attempt to reassure voters that their plans for medicare won't hurt seniors but over the

weekend, vice president joe biden told voters in florida not to be fooled by what the gop and their parents are saying. >> bottom line, folks, is they're going to eviscerate medicare. it no longer will be a guaranteed program. >> under governor romney's proposal, medicare wouldn't change for current seniors but for those under 55 it would be turned into what his campaign calls premium support, a voucher system that gives seniors a fixed amount to spend on insurance either public or private. the plan is based on a controversial proposal put forward by his running mate, paul ryan. over the summer, ryan tried to tamp down fears regarding his own plan by bringing his mother to a campaign event at a huge florida retirement community. >> like a lot of americans, when i think about medicare, it's not just a program. it's not just a bunch of numbers. it's what my mom relies on. it's what my grandma had. >> the kaiser family foundation found that if ryan's plan had

been in place in 2010, nearly 60% of beneficiaries would have paid more for care unless they switched to a lower cost plan. in the sunshine state, the site of tonight's debate and where 19% of the population is on medicare, that would have amounted to an increase of $200 per month for traditional medicare. the proposed changes could be one reason why the latest nbc news/"wall street journal" poll shows voters think president obama would do a better job with dealing with medicare. 46% to 37%. hugo, this seems to be a psychological -- >> short straw, thank you. >> we're not going to get too deep into medicare policy -- >> i'm going deep. >> i want to ask about that sound we played at the beginning of the segment, which is trot out your grandmother, your mother, your wife's mother -- >> can i trot out my mother? i just got a text from her. medicare has been an excellent program for us. actually says that. paid for all dad's treatments and now mine. >> guess what? people like medicare. the question is, does it help the gop's case?

does it make it all okay? >> i don't think it does help the gop's case. it's a little bit of a they can throw the obama care scare tactics in there and that's a little bit of thing they think they have an advantage on but no, it comes down to they don't want to go into the specifics of their plan too much. it really does come down to does the word voucher scare you or is it a word that empowers you. the republican base like the word voucher. the rest of the country -- >> i don't know. i don't know. i think you say the word voucher and that strikes fear in the heart of voters. >> the base is not going to get mitt romney or paul ryan into the white house. that's the problem. that's why they won't talk about it. that's why they're using their moms, mother-in-laws, dads and everybody else as human shields. >> i'm just so frankly so moved that so many small government conservatives who are out there willing to protect big government health care. and having their mothers there

to help make it more meaningful, it makes it more honest. >> that's a very appropriately sarcastic take-down of that strategy. karen, what's interesting, in terms of winning this thing, 70% of seniors, 70% of seniors voted in the last presidential election compared to just under 60% of the overall population, and if you look at who thinks the issue of medicare and entitlement programs are extremely important, younger old people, those 55 to 64, the economy's 54%, medicare is 51%. this is a big issue for them. >> because again, that's their personal economy. they know they are dependent as my mother explained to me when all this first came up, if she falls short it's on me to help make up the difference. let's remember, we're back in boca, the scene of the 47% crime. who are some of the 47%? people on medicare. so you know, this is a big issue obviously in florida. just to hugo's point, the data shows, just politically

speaking, democrats enter the conversation with greater trust from voters on this issue, which is part of why the president doesn't have to give as many specifics and as many details. it's part of why frankly when george bush tried to privatize social security and we had that whole conversation, democrats were in a much stronger position. the republican congressional campaign committee did a little presentation over the summer, little power point, politico.com, top recommendation if you're republican, talk about your mom. if you talk about your mom and try to throw in obama care scare games, you might actually pull even with the democrat. >> as long as you don't call them takers, don't about your mom. >> as long as you don't write them off as people you don't need to be concerned with. the same kaiser family foundation poll says about half of voters are not familiar with romney's plan, about one-third are not familiar with president obama's plan. richard, is that a failure on the part of team obama, that there is not more of a familiarity or general trust in what the president would do,

and/or the fact romney wants to turn medicare into a voucher program? >> familiarity with the plan is not the same as who do you trust with medicare. there are different measures there. by the way, republicans quite like it that way, the people not familiar with the plans. that's why they tried that language about premium support and that hasn't stuck either. be off topic, show the big heart you've got, and hope that people don't notice that generationally, by the way, older folks, they don't like the idea of their kids having to pay more or working in a different system, either. they can see through this. the only people they're fooling are the ones in the 40s and 50s who haven't yet figured out that ultimately, maybe sooner than later, they will need medicare, too. >> especially if the ryan/romney administration cuts $716 billion from medicare and it will be insolvent by 2016 which is bad news for anybody that is of a certain age. we have to leave it there. coming up, who helped launch the political careers of bill and hillary clinton but also

garnered high praise from bob dole? if you guessed george mcgovern you would be correct. we look back at the late senator's legacy, just ahead. [ female announcer ] today, jason is here to volunteer to help those in need. when a twinge of back pain surprises him. morning starts in high spirits, but there's a growing pain in his lower back. as lines grow longer, his pain continues to linger. but after a long day of helping others, he gets some helpful advice. just two aleve have the strength to keep back pain away all day. today, jason chose aleve. just two pills for all day pain relief. try aleve d for strong, all day long sinus and headache relief. flavor, meet food. it's time for swanson flavor boost. concentrated broth in easy to use packets. mix it into skillet dishes, for an instant dose of... hell-o! [ female announcer ] get recipes at flavorboost.com.

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in the wee small hours of july 12th, 1972, senator george mcgovern accepted the democratic party's presidential nomination at the miami convention. he also used his speech to characterize his opponent, president richard nixon. >> he is the unwitting unifier on the fundamental issue of this national campaign. and all of us are going to help him redeem a pledge he made ten years ago that next year, you won't have richard nixon to kick around anymore. >> of course, that did not happen in 1972, but senator

mcgovern's political influence stretched far beyond his white house run. we will discuss it next.

over the weekend, the country lost a political titan and one of the founders of the modern democratic party. former south dakota senator and anti-vietnam war crusader george mcgovern, who passed away sunday at the age of 90. though largely remembered for his landslide defeat to richard nixon in '72, mcgovern left behind several legacies that helped shape the democratic party today. he served as a bomber pilot in world war ii, flying 35 combat missions in europe and earning the distinguished flying cross for his bravery. after the war, he served two terms in the house and a year in the kennedy administration before being elected to the first of three senate terms in

1962. he quickly became the upper chamber's most ardent critic of the vietnam war, winning his party's nomination in 1972 largely on the basis of his staunch opposition. although mcgovern ultimately fell short, his 1972 campaign helped launch the political careers of many who came after him, including a young couple by the name of bill and hillary clinton, who took time off from their studies at yale law school to run his campaign in texas. you know, it's really interesting, i will say full disclosure, my father was one of the many people who worked on the mcgovern campaign. look at the list. it's a who's who of democratic politics. gary hart, sandy berger, greg craig. amazing time in american politics but also one, i wonder, jonathan, is there a time that we will ever return to where someone can be so deeply liberal as mcgovern was, this is someone who never forget went out on to the floor of the senate speaking

of vietnam and said every senator in this chamber is partly responsible for sending 50,000 young americans to an early grave. this chamber reeks of blood. powerful statement. >> powerful statement and no, those days are gone. we won't find anyone who is that deeply liberal as you described, but i thought -- >> i know plenty of people that deeply liberal. >> on the national stage. >> but on the national stage. >> politically courageous. >> right. >> war hero against the war. >> we will see that mcgovern is not the only person who has had that kind of an impact on the democratic party, and i think in years, years, years down the road, we will be talking about the impact that bill clinton had on the democratic party and what that meant and all the lists of names of people who we all know, but in years to come, who go on to do great things and we'll be reading their names as people who are carrying on the clinton

legacy and you know, just look at the obama administration. >> which is now purchaporting t carry on the clinton legacy. >> what's interesting, as a testament to how far the country has come and not necessarily in a good way, bob dole, writing an op-ed in the "washington post" saying i'm sure there are some who are surprised by the long friendship george and i shared. i did what i could do to ensure the defeat of his 1972 run for the white house. when the election was over, however, george and i knew we couldn't keep on campaigning forever. we also knew that what we had in common was far more important than our different political philosophies. that sentence, i knew we couldn't keep on campaigning forever, seems to be completely lost in our two party system at this point. >> and the culture of the senate has changed radically. if there's one thing apart from redistricting that really changed politics in this country, it's that. the house spirit of permanent campaigning which obviously is there by design, has seeped into and poisoned the senate so that

the senate rules no longer work. this kind of collegiality, some people may love the partisanship but the senate's rules are there with the idea that these people will take a longer term view than even the president. that's why they have six-year terms. it's only because they can talk to each other afterwards and find common ground that you have the ideas that animate the way the rules are set up. it would be great to go back to it but i feel those days are lost. >> bipartisanship, people being able to agree on things. dole and mcgovern talked about military service, midwestern values. the fact they were both presidential losers. you know, then there are other legacies, too. the fact that gary hart, who was mcgovern's campaign manager, was the one to make the iowa caucuses into the thing we now pay so much attention to. >> excellent book. >> the nominating rules back on the convention floor where party bosses used to decide what was

really going to lhappen. >> unfortunately, let the rules run so amok when he gave his speech it was 2:45 in the morning and nobody was watching. not quite the kind of discipline we saw this time around. >> it was wilder. but wasn't it more fun? can you imagine a speech now at 2:45? >> when you could actually have a real conversation about ideas. >> a real conversation. a real loss for the democratic party. a reminder of where our roots once -- the roots of the party once lie. thank you to jonathan, karen, richard and hugo. that is all for now. see you back here tomorrow at noon eastern, 9:00 a.m. pacific, when i am joined by governor ed rendell, deputy new york city mayor howard wolfson, the "new york times" frank bruni, joy reed and don't miss our final debate performance review with james lipton. tonight, we will be live with a healthy dose of sass and insight starting at 9:00 p.m. eastern.

"andrea mitchell reports" is next live from boca raton, florida. good afternoon, andrea. good afternoon. i loved your tribute to george mcgovern. i was there on the floor of that convention listening to that acceptance speech. great to see you and hear all that. tonight, the foreign policy debate. will it sway undecided voters? joining us here, chuck todd, chris cillizza, mark halperin, congressman greg meeks, peter king and mike rogers, and our foreign policy debate panel, richard engel and bruce rydell. what questions would they ask the candidates? and the biographers weigh in, next on "andrea mitchell reports" live from lynn university. , keys, keys, keys. ♪ well, he's not very handsome ♪ to look at [ sighs ] ♪ oh, he's shaggy ♪ and he eats like a hog

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