joining me today, "rolling stone" executive editor eric baits, retired army captain and author of "the other wes moore" this wes moore, msnbc political analyst joan walsh, of salon.com and buzz feed editor in chief always, always busy ben. imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. governor mitt romney triz ig to win the election as barack obama in 2008. >> the challenges we face are bigger than the smallness of our politics. >> this is a big choice. this is an election about big things. >> we need a much bolder and much bigger set of solutions. >> given the big challenges we have and the big election we have, it's time for a big change. >> we'll change this country and we will change the world. >> paul ryan and i represent a big change for america. >> we are four days away from bringing change to america. >> on november 7th it's going to

start getting better just with the news we've voted for big change. >> the time for change has come. >> there's time for a big change. >> romney's rhetoric isn'ts the only thing that has an odd de va have you quality to it. governor romney will deliver a policy speech? iowa on the economy. according to excerpts he will present a few goals that sound obama-esque. quote -- but in reality, and be off the stump romney's economic policies couldn't be more of a departure from the current administration. phil philip rucker writes in "the washington post" -- so where does this slash and burn approach to the federal government leave the country?

the cover story in "rolling stone" argues romney's policies not only run counter to those of president obama but will unwind a century's worth of work to strengthen the american social compact. quote -- on one count governor romney is right this is a big choice eviction and for president obama it's not about hope and change. it's about the hope of keeping in place all the change that's already been made. eric, your story, your magazine. a great piece. the cover of the magazine. let's talk a little bit about you sat down with the president for this interview and the piece outlines two pretty macro visions for the country. i wonder if you think that choice is clear to voters at this point. >> well, i think romney has done

his best as the president himself says in the interview to fuzz that up and one of the interesting things when we ask him directly do you think that governor romney has lied to the american people through all his changes of position, what the president said is i think we won the argument and so that they had to change their tack. i think that's an interesting way of looking at it. we huz talking after the first debate when romney did his most abrupt about-face, but he really said we have the ideas, we have the plan, we won that. it was clear to them their plan wasn't working and they shifted and tried to fuzz it up and look like us. >> the question is, this has been much discussed today, a comment that president made to the interviewer talking about your daughter, wasn't it, and her wishes for the the and he said he does well with kids because they have a detector for b.s.ers, the family way of paraphra

paraphrasing. do you think the american public has that same level of detect n detection? >> that's always one of the problems in the election. it's really hard for substance to get lost. because we chase things like the b.s. comment, rather than diving into the real differences and the policy debate. i think this election has played out over a long enough time that it's really difficult for the romney campaign to hide all their predispositions and that's what you're seeing is all these juxtaposition clips you get day after day of where he was on abortion then and now and where he was on taxes then and now, so it's very hard over the course of that long a campaign to keep your true self hidden. and it's hard to keep your character hidden. one of the things that's clear about romney is he has been all over the map as ted kennedy said in one of his debates with him, my opponent -- i'm pro choice my opponent is multiple choice. in the old days we called that flip flopping. it's surprising it hasn't been applied more to governor romney

as john kerry. he doesn't have a core and i think people want that. it's about athen tisty. people want to know what you'll stand for. they'll go for if they're not sure what you stand for is right. >> i'm happy the president used the word we're not allowed to say on tv. >> we really want to. can you tell, america, we want to use it. >> we won't. children, it's still safe for you to watch the show for the moment. >> i think it's great. he is drawing a contrast and i think that part of what happened that first debate is we lost fighting barack obama, we lost that man who emerged, especially in the last year, we saw him in 2008, he went away and in the last year since the debt ceiling debacle we saw him. the fact that he's calling him out and using a salty term, maybe that will help with these blue collar white men who apparently are even trending farther against him. i think he's got to do that and i think we also all of us are, it's incumbent on us to call out the contrasts. in the last debate i was so

disappointed with the media, he's doing a wise thing, moving to the center. he's lying. he's lying and not tells us what he'll really do and scoring points politically because that's smart to do. i mean it's terrible. >> and i also -- it comes down to the fact that everyone kind of enjoys the political process and game of the political process but everyones also understands you know what, though, the day after the election, someone has got to govern and so it really matters what their ideas are and what people are thinking about. if you look at the endorsements the president has received from the salt lake city tribune or "washington post" or one from colin powell yesterday, it had to do with barack obama the policies of the past four years and what he wants to do in the future but the fact that they have no idea what this other person is. and they have no idea who he's going to bring into the white house with him if he were to end up winning. >> as we talk about endorsements "the new yorker" had an extended

endorsement of barack obama. not mitt romney. i want to read an excerpt. i thought they both argued on behalf of the president's record thus far and argued sort of the counter factual option which is, if the key note of obama's administration has been public investment whether in infrastructure, education or health, the keynote of romney's candiedisy has been private equity. a democracy cannot lay off its failing citizens. it cannot be content to leave any of its citizens behind and not the 47% who romney wishes to fire from the policy. very strong words. we've gone back and forth about who mitt romney is and how the campaign portrayed him. a piece in "the new york times" saying maybe listen to bill clinton's advice about how to portray romney as a severe conservative was a bad idea. seems like they're back on the flip flopper this guy has no core message something they bandied about at the earlier stage of the election cycle. >> after -- as romney tacked to

the center they did they suddenly said actually he has no core. the problem potentially is that to voters -- would voters -- voters are happy it if you flip flop their way. voters would rather they flip flop to them than you disagreed with them. that's romney's best. it's a close election. >> we're conflating being a moderate with being a flip flopper. there is a difference when you're talking about bill clinton -- >> first on abortion. like the obama campaign's argument is mitt romney is secretly really zealous on abortion, going to go out of his way with executive orders and everything else to shut down abortion rights. i think a lot of americans probably look at romney's record which is all over the map and think he's faking it for the right wingers. maybe -- and you know, i'm not sure which way that's going to push voters. >> i would actually disagree on the abortion thing, i think his statements about who he would appoint to the supreme court, calling to mind scalia and thomas, his choice of paul ryan who has 100% rating in terms of

pro life, there is i think now -- i would have a year ago said -- >> his policy positions, you know -- >> doesn't matter what he personally is. >> but i thought the whole point he had no core, right. these are different arguments. >> but again, i say there's a difference between some guy who will stand in the middle and compromise and strike grand bargains to someone who will go which ever way the wind blows and listen to the loudest voices in the room which is the contention. so much stuff we didn't get to and have to go to break. this is how the show goes sometimes. after the break abraham lincoln once said a house divided against itself can not stand. wonder what great republican would think ability today's gop. colin powell has voiced his reservations. >> i'm a republican, more moderate mold and that's something of a dying breed, i'm sorry to say. >> we will look at the family feud, next on "now." bob...

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humorous will rogers said, i'm not a member of any organized political party, i'm a democrat. but these days, democrats seem to be rowing in the same direction while republicans are scattered all over the high seas. one person walking the gop plank these days, indiana senate hopeful richard mourdock whose comments on rape made a week after filming campaign ads with mitt romney are distracting from the former govern's economy first message. >> well, i hope you enjoyed that romney endorsement while it lasted. mourdock. you can blow the kiss good bye,

right, romney campaign. >> mr. mourdock's comments do not reflect mr. romney's views. we still support him. >> wow, not often do you hear somebody say i disagree with your views on rape and incest, but, um, um, i disagree with your views on rape and incest but not a dealbreaker. >> the job of scrubbing the deck fell to john sununu out in force to clear up any doubts about the campaign's position. >> rape is a heinous vile act and horrible and when mourdock s says that romney immediately condemned that. >> was the unfortunate rape snafu cleaned up? perhaps. not before sununu went on to say this about former secretary of state colin powell and his endorsement of president obama. >> when you take a look at colin powell you have to wonder whether that's an endorsement based on issues or he has a

slightly different reason for preferring president obama. >> what reason would that be? >> well, i think when you have somebody of your own race you're proud of being president of the united states i applaud colin for standing with him. >> what better way to compound a highly charged and emotional debate over race than by starting one over race. with a party like this, no wonder policy seems eager to leave the sinking ship and doesn't help when ship mates seem all too willing to throw you overboard. friends like these, wes, who needs enemies. let's talk about the republican party here. what's amazing to me, piece by piece, that the -- i'm not going to call it snafu, the disastrous conversation around rape has

been largely one of their own making. same thing with colin powell. okay. someone's going to break ranks and endorse the president again, can't let it go and then it becomes this debate over race, which is not a very good thing for the republican party to be talking about right now and also shows a party in turmoil two weeks before the election. >> and it shows a party who's really trying to define who they are and stand for. i think what's going to be really interesting to see is after the election, is really where you're going to watch a reckoning of the republican party to figure out okay, regardless of what happens we have got real issues we have to face going forward, demographic issues, economic issues, policy issues, and the republican party right now there's a tremendous amount of infighting and not just about the candidates, it's not just about the issues that people are debating right now, it is who are the republican party and what is it they stand for. >> also, you know, for john mccain to be talking about someone wrecking their legacy he gave us sarah palin. the positive thing i will say to

balance about that about senator mccain he did not go into the racial suer in his campaign the way the romney folks have. all the push back against the powell endorsement four years ago came from the far right, i debated pat buchanan on "hardball." rush limbaugh playing the race card. mccain wouldn't go there. you have a romney co-chair being one of the first people on national television to say that this is all about race. so you have to understand that black people are the real racists now according to the republican party and white people voting for romney god fored by you say any whites are voting for romney because he's white that is just reboatent. >> i would add like what sununu said was not a genius stroke of dog whistling but the people who are happy to talk about john sununu today are the obama campaign. >> and worth noting he issued an apology saying colin powell is a friend and respect the

endorsement decision he made and do not doubt it was based on anything but his support of the president's policies. piers morgan's question whether colin powell should leave the party and i don't think he should. >> sununu's job has been to go out and say what everybody is thinking in the romney campaign but won't really say and it's kind of hard for them to reel him in on things like this. >> reeling in john sununu has provened to be a difficult task. >> they wouldn't put him out if they didn't think he was playing a role. he doesn't work for himself. >> this is not the first time john sununu has made a racial argument about the president. the thing that hurts him, if you listen to the endorsement colin powell gave it's an effective argument. it's simply saying we understand i have a lot of respect for governor romney but when you look at the policy that he's prescribing, his foreign policy, the problem isn't the fact that he wasn't able to memorize the facts the fact he didn't have a perspective and context to the facts these are real issues that general powell was pointing to

and i think that caused a real problem within the republican party and john sununu. >> the other thing we're not talking about is the gop wants to get the senate back and they did this in 2010 where they had sort of wacky candidates they put out there and the democrats got the seat. this may happen again. think about todd akin in missouri and mourdock's race, this is not good for the republicans. and i talked to a senior unnamed republican who said look, if i could sit everybody down in the room i would say you, be quiet. you be quiet. this what is we're talking about. we're not going to talk about rape, or race. there's no point in doing this two weeks out before the election. >> indiana and missouri are states they should just win. >> we all wrote them off. >> we don't have -- the latest polling we have, one poll from october 21st shows claire mccaskill beating todd akin by six points right now. this was the race she was supposed to lose and yes, so all of that taken with all of that said, rush limbaugh is out there saying there's -- we don't have time to play this whole sound and it is a long and winding

piece of sound that says there's not a whole lot of love for conservatives in the republican party except for right now which is election season but overall we're punted to the sidelines. >> i don't think the question is, what are the republicans going to do if they lose. that narrative has already been written. they're going to double down. they're committed to this course. i wish there was a reexamination within the republican party. there will be long term. don't think there will be short term. the real question is what is barack obama going to do if he wins if he's faced with the same kind of obstructionism he's been faced with and that i don't think we know the answer to. obama is someone who spends his whole life navigating the middle ground and navigating it very, very successfully. you look at harvard law review and what he did there and brought the conservatives into the fold on the harvard law review. what happened when he got to the white house there was no middle ground and he never encountered that in his life before. i think it took him a couple years to figure that out, that the middle ground was gone. the middle ground will be gone after this election as well.

the question is how do you navigate in that landscape and is obama capable of figuring that out and coming up with a new tactic. >> on that note, i think he's learned that to get legislation passed you don't take it to the republican party, you take it to the american public and sell it in the country and what he did on the payroll tax cut and perhaps if he is re-elected or gets anything done will be because he goes to the nation first. we have to leave it there. thank you to salon's joan walsh, her book "what's the matter with white people" is out now. coming up, vaguely defined and highly valued pollsters, pundits and the campaigns have their attention trained on the almighty undecided voter. will they be the critical force in this year's election. we will ask chris hayes when he joins the panel just up ahead. [ male announcer ] this is sheldon, whose long dy setting up the news

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detroit. >> that is a scene from the documentary "detropia." 1930 detroit was the fastest growing city in the world. a mecca for industry and innovation, a metropolis of more than 1.5 million people. now, 82 years later it is the epitome of decline, fastest shrinking city in the country. in just ten years, from 2000 to 2010, detroit lost nearly a quarter of its population, dropping to about 713,000. left behind, abandoned buildings, shuttered factories and empty land. so many vacant lots you could fit the entire city of paris in them. and there is no sign of the trend being reversed. according to the detroit free press, the city issues ten demolition permits for every one new construction permit. the mayor of detroit promised to demolish 10,000 homes during his four-year term will the goal of downsizing detroit into a denseble city. also detroit native mark, author

of "detroit city is the place to be" due out next month. thank you for joining me and wes. we are he excited to talk about this topic underdiscussed the decline of america's great cities. rachel, there is a talk in and around the movie of ruin, to say this idea that these cities, they're all these vacant homes artists can go there, thing are happening with food and arts and culture but the city as it is for residents, it's a false narrative. that these cities really are struggling and you look at what's happening with the downsizing in detroit and that would bear that out. >> also the narrative has been even blown up even more just from the super bowl commercials, it was incredible, they happened while we were filming and a couple commercials and everyone was satisfied with the story that everything is fine for the city and that it's coming back. but, you know, there's 650,000 people there that don't have a

good quality of life. our story hopefully sheds light on them. >> heidi, when we're talking about the narrative of detroit and the problems, there's systemic failures we're looking at. this statistic was staggering, the national institute for literacy says 47% of adults living in detroit are functionally illiterate. that's half the population of the city that's functionally illiterate. there's a problem with education which leads to social mobility and economic success. >> absolutely. that's why problems, the systemic problems in detroit are hard to solve and where you're not hearing them in the campaign trail. we hear about the bailout, how the city was somehow saved with the auto industry bailout which was a good thing, but until we look at the systemic problem of lack of transportation, lack of resources, no tax base, and a subpar education system in place in detroit and other cities like it we're not really getting to the root of the problem with american cities at all. >> it's interesting, mark, in your book, there's -- we look at

what mayor of detroit is trying to do with the city and the downsizing thing is really interesting. and nobody knows how it's going to play out. in your book, you say the prospect of such a comprehensive reckoning with land use, to say the downsizing, depopulation sprawl and the future of the american city felt like an important moment one with potential application for the aging metropolises large and small which made the present day state of our union so atypically morbid. the plan could be one of the bollest reimagings of urban space in modern u.s. history. >> sadly there's no money to enact these plans. you film one of the meetings i was at and the same scene appears in my book and, you know, a lot of talk, there had been lots of meetings, but no real progress on the right sizing initiative, which yes, definitely if it was implemented the way it's been spoken about

it would be an amazing ♪ effectively to clarify, turning this land over to become gardens or vacant lots i think, 40% of the real estate parcels in the city only 40% are paying taxes but detroit is 140 square miles and 40 square miles of that are vacant. >> the problem is, it's not -- people think it's like one chunk of vacant land the size of paris, but it's spread over the city. the tricky thing is incentivizing people to move into more dense urban cores and then b, getting this vacant land away from people who are sitting on it who maybe live in california. there are lots of land speculators who own this stuff and are letting these houses decline and letting the fields get overgrown. it's really tricky. >> i know along those lines you've had other cities such as baltimore who have looked at vacant to value, trying to offload that inventory and it's amazingly difficult. have they looked at any examples

as to places where this has worked and they can take inspiration from? >> actually, youngstown, a smaller city but with the same problem as detroit and also the same manufacturing path, steel town, et cetera, they tried to do this with very mixed results. you've got people if you don't pay them to move, where are they going to go and what's their incentive to leave. someone that's the only house on the block, mowed their lawn, manicured, proud of their home to get them to leave to go to a more dense area, well what's their incentive if you're not going to pay them to do so. it's hard -- looks good on paper. hard to make this happen in reality. >> i would assume there's a sort of survival mentality you have if you've been there that long. rachel, the people, tell us about the psychology of sort of being a detroit resident at this point. >> well, be what we hopefully have picked up on the film there's sort of a gal los humor, they're allowed to have, but

when people come there they feel picked on. it's been the example of a declining city for 20, 30 years, and i think now that there's all this attention, there's movies and books and people are interested in this place, as they're starting to feel the same issues and problems, it's spreading to other cities detroiters are like yeah where have you been. we've been talking about this for years and now you're noticing that, you know, your municipalities are going broke. your -- all the resources of your city are depleting. so i think they're frustrated but they're incredibly hopeful. they stay. >> the fact they have stayed, a city where people have to commute three hours to work because the infrastructure there in terms of transportation is already gutted and getting trimmed back further, so it's like just surviving basically getting to work becomes -- it's almost -- something you have to fight for. >> there's no national chains --

grocery chains, in the city of detroit. you have to leave the city in order to get food, produce, and -- but there is a whole foods that is opening, but the majority of people can't afford that. >> that's really for the newcomers and all the young, new excited people coming to detroit which is wonderful, but we want to make sure the rest of the detroiters who have stuck with the city for all these years don't get left behind. >> and salon article from this year speaks to that. they were in the piece, they write what these dreams seldom include however are the almost unimaginable systemic problems many of these cities suffer from, failed schools, violent crime, the threat of municipal bankruptcy. photographers parachuting in to shoot michigan central station and anthony bourdain's gushing endorsement may be crowding the fact that crisis won't be lifted by chickness alone. >> so whole foods does not make a city. we will return to this question after the break. according to new statistics more than a dozen u.s. cities going

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i've told you twice, we negotiate any kind of agreement it's going to be a livable wage. what did she tell us about a livable wage? >> i don't care [ inaudible ] livable wage. >> point blank. >> why? to beat us down, what? i mean -- >> ridiculous, why. >> to human late us. why? what good is that? what are you thinking you're going to feel every day going into work? they don't care. that's the biggest problem. >> that's a scene from "detropia" as union workers learn their latest contract would result in a huge pay cut

according to the "wall street journal" veteran workers at the three automakers make upwards of $33 an hour, new hires half that. the lower wages are one reason factory jobs are coming back in the u.s. with 200,000 positions added in the past year. unlikely the manufacturing sector will ever be what it was a few decades ago. in 1979 at the peak, there were 19.6 million manufacturing positions and now there are a little less than 12 million. the erosion of manufacturing jobs has led to the decline of once booming urban areas across the country. baltimore lost about 30% of its population from 1970 to 2010, cleveland lost nearly 50% during the same time period, pittsburgh's population stands at about 306,000, down about 41% since 1970 and more than half of the people living in youngstown, ohio, packed up and left over the last four decades. wes, i want to go to you first. i don't know if america knows but you have moved back to baltimore which is one of the great american cities but a city that has seen its fair share of

problems and flight out of the city. i wonder, let's talk first why? why did you choose to go back to baltimore? >> you know, it was a question that even a lot of my friends asked me when i said i'm going back to baltimore, they were like why? honestly i believe in the baltimore story. i believe in the fact i'm a very proud baltimorens and we are proud people, proud of our city and have a lot of infrastructure that's in place that's actually showing where we're making a renaissance. if you look at school readiness indicators in baltimore, 12 years ago we were at 27% of kids were at school readiness now we have around 73% of kids at school readiness. new infrastructure coming back, arts and cultural base coming back. it's an exciting time to be there but you're going with both eyes open understanding there's economic challenges, social challenges that have to be tackled, particularly when looking at great american citys. >> we brought up those manufacturing stats because that's -- we talk about the systemic problems with a lot of these cities and the reality is,

is detroit ever going to be a manufacturing center like it was in we really don't know. i think the president pointed out, you know, he's gotten hit hard from the republicans as far as economic recovery and jobs coming back and this is what he said in the second debate and i thought it was an interesting moment of honesty about where america's sort of manufacturing jobs are going to be. let's take a listen. >> there's some jobs that are not going to come back. because they're low wage, low skill jobs. i want high wage, high skill jobs. that's why we have to emphasize manufacturing. that's why we have to invest in advanced manufacturing. that's why we've got to make sure we've got the best science and research in the world. >> heidi, pittsburgh has seen some rebound in terms of its own economy and some part of that is due to the university sector, more of an emphasis on robotics and biotechnology which is centered around the university's carnegie-mellon and university of pittsburgh. how many jobs you can create in those sectors and how quickly

you can, paul krugman saying in the times if you didn't know what was going on in the u.s. economy you would think from reading the obama plan america was a place where workers with the right skills were in high demand so our big problem was not that enough people have those skills. five or ten years from now america might look like that. right now, however, we're still living in a depressed economy offering poor prospects for everyone including the highly educated. >> it's just that there's those low skilled or unskilled manufacturing jobs employed millions of people. those aren't coming back. we've lost over 2 million manufacturing jobs overall since the clinton era. we are on that decline. we're looking for the next big thing. what is the next big industry that can employ millions of people. everyone is searching for that, hoping for that. high-tech manufacturing is important. it doesn't require as many bodies as the old model did. >> the economic policy institute said that green jobs are growing faster than the overall economy and they are accessible to those without a college education it comes down to a numbers game,

wes. the question is, we look at this choice election that we have in front of us and the economic prescriptions being offered by both parties and i think the biggest problem for me as far as where mitt romney's prescription lies is the notion that you cure america's ills by cutting taxes for the top 1 to 10%. if you look at real median income is as of last year, it's $50,000, which is 8% lower than 2007. the top fifth of this country earned over 51% of all incomes. it is an imbalance that is historic and i think very distressing. >> here's the problem with mitt romney's equation. in major economic cities and major urban cities do we need to address things like tax rates. yes. because the fact is in major metropolitans they're paying more in taxes than their suburban neighbors. however the most important thing we have to do is increase the tax base, have more people in there who actually have good sustainable jobs. by doing things like addressing

the educational disparities, doing things like making sure the education is trained towards jobs available and making sure we're putting in places where they can actually be successful in their work, that's how you increase the tax base, that's how you encourage more business to invest inside the area and address the economic disparities mitt romney is talking about without saying if we decrease taxes for the very rich somehow it will trickle down. that experiment has not worked. >> i will try to leave this segment on a high note which is to say that the detroit tigers are in the world series. >> yeah. >> go tigers. >> which is i mean i love san francisco, but really, the city should get it. >> absolutely. >> to win this one. >> they earned that. >> right. >> they deserve it. thank you to our resident detroit experts rachel grady and heidi ewing their film "detropia" is out now, arthur mark binelli, detroit city the place to be, which goes on sale november 13th. go tigers. coming up vice president joe biden wants americans to know that you don't have to wait until november 6th to vote.

snoor i want to make what we call a public service announcement. early voting is available between now and november the 2nd. >> but you can't really cast your ballot if you don't know who you are supporting. so whos is actually still undecided in this election? we'll look under the desk and in between the seat cushions for undecided voters. when chris hayes joins us for up now, next. president obama: there's just no quit in america... and you're seeing that right now. over five million new jobs. exports up forty one percent. home values... rising. our auto industry... back. and our heroes are coming home. we're not there yet, but we've made real progress and the... last thing we should do is turn back now. here's my plan for the next four years: making education and training a national priority; building on our manufacturing boom;

boosting american-made energy; reducing the deficits responsibly by cutting where... we can, and asking the wealthy to pay a little more. and ending the war in afghanistan, so we can... do some nation-building here at home. that's the right path. so read my plan, compare it to governor romney's... and decide which is better for you. it's an honor to be your president... and i'm asking for your vote... so together, we can keep moving america forward. i'm barack obama and i approve this message.

it's okay that there's a tiny fraction of uncommitted voters in a few swing states who will decide this election. can we please stop treating them like they're more noble and discerning than the rest of us. put on a ped da stall by the media as if they were hamlets in a think tank searching out every last bit of information, high minded arbiters pouring over

policy positions and matching them against their own philosophies, please. they mostly fall into a category political scientists call low information voters. >> the obama and romney campaigns are both courting that rarest of breeds the elusive undecided voter, believed to make up about 6% of the electorate these voters are disproportionately, white, female, lack a college education and earn under $25,000 a year. here is a man never has a problem making up his mind chris hayes host for "up" for a segment we call up now. >> i almost didn't. >> well, real talk. >> up now. >> talk about undecided voters. there is like beginning to see the edges of disdain for these people. >> i think this happens every four years. there's two sides to this. this obsessive putting on a ped da stall we get at the debates when networks will assemble these crews what do you think. and we think it's fundamentally

offensive to our democratic instinct because we think we are all voters one person one vote and we're all equal. the electoral college renders our votes vastly unequal and on top of that the point in the election when you decide particularly in increasingly partisan polarized atmosphere renders your vote more valuable and we find that offensive and then there's fascination with what are these people thinking and how do they make up their minds. >> you know, mike murphy quoted in a new yorker piece this weekend that says undecided voters who make up only 6% of the electorate are often incoherent which makes it difficult to create an effective pitch to them. independents voted for obama and 24 months later voted for a republican. embedded in this is a strategy the obama campaign may seem to have adopted which is it isn't necessarily about the independent voters, making sure your supporters whether sporadic voters or voted for you in 2008

are coming back out to the polls. >> at this point the amount of persuasion left to do is nil. we're down to the turnout operation. the other thing is most people who register as independent act like partisans. we talk about independent voters but the vast majority vote like republicans or democrats and then of the undecided the majority are rej stertds with the party and will vote for the party. >> men smith is nodding his head. >> there are people making up their minds and changing their minds. ideological coherence is something people here care about but most voters that elect the president of the united states cares about. the most ridiculous end romney going for people who care about lyme disease and ticks in virginia trying to grab on to anything they can. in ohio the obama campaign has been effective with regional issues, auto industry and pushing local issues people care about like you're running a state or local race.

>> 2004, before i was a full-time reporter i took two months and worked on for the league of conservation voters going door to door talking to undecided voters two months every day and one of the things i learned was that the very -- the way that people who think about politics all the time thing about politics is different than the way that people who don't ever think about politics think about politics. the vastness of that difference is a difficult thing to bridge. the place it hit home to me most was the conception of the issue as a conceptual category. when i say what issues do you care about. choice and taxation. you've already internalized the fact that's the way we cut the world into pieces. if you start a campaign website, you would know what the headings are. defense, economy. >> my issues are longer recess and soda in the water fountain. something else entirely. neil newhouse says about independent undecided voters, overwhelmingly concerned with their family budgets, not the

national budget, they are concerned about putting food on the table or gas in the tank. they are struggling with their daily lives which is fair. >> yeah. >> is there anything we know about whether or not if you're undecided, a week before the election, will you generally sway towards an incumbent or sway against an incumbent? >> for a while this kind of mythology they broke towards the challenger but i think that's not shown to be the case in the last two elections, particularly at national levels. they've broadly split about 50/50. certain point folks deciding this late are doing something that's not that different from flipping a coin. >> we looked under the desk to try to find an undecided voter for this segment but couldn't find one. maybe by tomorrow morning when your show is on. >> we have a full panel of 50 undecided voters. >> hook them up to an ekg. >> squiggly line. >> thank you to eric, wes, chris and ben, catch chris on "up" tomorrow and sunday at 8:00 a.m.

eastern time. i'll see you back monday at noon eastern, 9:00 a.m. pacific when joined by ari melbourne, the atlantic's james bennett. until then find us at facebook.com/now with alex. andrea mitchell reports is next. sitting in is the man who's just a little bit country, just a little bit rock and roll, america's very own chris cizilla. good afternoon, chris. >> hello, alex. i have a quick question, did you ban ties for men on the show today? >> we like to keep it easy breezy, casual fridays. >> my mom would yell at me, thank you, alex. coming up, mitt romney will be delivering what his campaign is calling a major economic speech. we'll carry it live. president obama is going after young voters today. campaign co-chair and actor call pen will join me. douglas brinkley here to discuss his interview with the president in "rolling stone" magazine. "andrea mitchell reports" is next. t i'm still stubbed up. [ male announcer ] truth is, nyquil doesn't unstuff your nose. what? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus liquid gels

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