it's the most won dir full time of the year, especially for small businesses. how to attract new customers and stand out during the holiday sales season. how did this owner of a gluten free bakery attract people that aren't interested in gluten-free products. the secret coming up next on

"your business." small businesses are revitalizing the economy and american express open is here to help. that's why we are proud to present "your business" on msnbc. hi, there, everyone. i'm j.j. ramberg and welcome to "your business." the show dedicated to giving you tips and advice to help your small business grow. black friday, small business saturday and cybermonday have come and gone. guess what? there are still plenty of days left in this holiday shopping season. retail sales so far this year have been good.

there are still plenty of customer dollars to be spent. so what can you do to attract customers and to stand out in this competitive time of year? international sales expert, grant cardone, is the founder and ceo of three multi-billion dollars companies and the author of sell and be sold, how do get your business in life. eva is the publisher for online marketing advice and shortcuts for ceos with no marketing department. great to see you both. >> great to be here. >> grant, chances are you may be able to get somebody in your door right now. what can you do to ensure people that you get into your door right now? >> you are competing with santa claus, the greatest retailer that has historically been on this planet. you need to take clues and tips from him. this guy markets himself constantly. he pervades every space possible. he is relentless. that's how retailers need to

think today. how do i get in somebody's space, whether social media, tv radio, handing out fliers, whatever it takes to create omnipresence for your products, service and company like santa does. >> there is your next book. are coupons the way to go, discounts, or not? >> no. i've got a much better idea. if you've got the guts to do it. i call it the right back at ya strategy. instead of using coupons or advertising in the paper or the radio, a lot of money you can't control. i recommend you take that money and convert it into gift certificates and send mailings to your neighborhoods with a letter inviting people to come to your store. that advertising money is coming right back to your store. it sounds risky. i promise you people will not only buy the value of the gift certificate, they are going to buy more z. how do i find out

who to send them do? >> the united states post office has an awesome program, every door. you can choose by mailing route which neighborhoods you want to choose and you can limit that just like with any other kind of mailing option. you can limit it to 1,000 households or 5,000 households, whatever your budget will meet. >> what do you do so you can keep them beyond the holiday season? >> one of the things i recommend is to literally create, it's really more possible than you think, a membership community, to keep them coming back for more. so, for example, one program i really like, you know, if you know the book of the month club. you can literally have a 12 days of your product type of a program that you offer. that not only exposes products and services that your customers may not know that you have offered. how often does that happen? i didn't know you had that. >> is there anything special you think they can do? >> i think the biggest advantage

for a small business owner, entrepreneurial, got his feet on the ground and his hands in his business, is to understand that the people you compete with, are going to be taken out of the game with santa claus, the attention, the jingles, the adds, people start checking out earlier and earlier in the season. the business owners actually check out and almost give up december. december is going to be a flop for us, going all to the big retailers. >> don't check out. be in the game and understand, this is your moment to grab market share from these people that are sleeping. >> once you get them through your door, love your customer. you are going to pay the price, okay? i wouldn't give discounts right now. i wouldn't give deep on prices. your margins are too narrow. i would offer free service later in the year, january or february, something they wouldn't have bought anyway and package things. >> thank you so much forgiving

this advice. it is an exciting time of year. i grew up with a retailer in my family. every holiday season i know my dad was working very hard. it is an exciting time. thanks so much. for a small business, focusing on a nearby is often the way to go. it carves out a spot where you can be the number one player. the owner of one bakery figured out what to do whether your nearby is too small. if you walk into the by the way bakery in hastings on hudson, new york, it seems pretty much like any other bakery. >> we sell muffins, four or five different kinds each day. we sell six or seven kinds of cupcakes. >> when you walk by the by the way bakery stand here at the colin leslie walk for celiac awareness, it is clear, it is not like any other bakery. >> it was so devastating my son

has this. he also has diabetes. god bless all you people now that have made it so much easier on everyone that has it. >> i make sure to specify that we are a dedicated, gluten-free, dairy free bakery. >> two sides of the same company shown on a different audience. helene goden is the owner, a corporate lawyer fishing around for a new car roar. after throwing out a bunch of ideas, she honed in on one. it is a sleepy little village, our town. it is lovely. i thought, maybe i'm going to try, going to be centered in the downtown, such as it is, in hastings. >> the only problem is when she ran the numbers, she realized this sleepy little town, while lovely, could probably not support a bakery. her company needed a twist, something that would inspire people, not only from her town but from all over to become customers. >> that's how the idea of a

gluten-free, dairy free bakery evolved. >> finding good gluten-free food can still be a challenge. helene was right in her assumption. while people won't go far for a typical bakery, they will travel for a gluten-free one. lorraine levine has a daughter with celiac disease. >> i'll go an hour or two if i have to for something she likes. it is very hard to find places and things you like. you stock up and find an extra freezer. >> here is the challenge helene faced. she knew she could get the gluten-free audience. that wasn't big enough to support a business either. she needed to entice both the hastings locals and the glue den tsh free nonlocals to walk through her door. to many, when you say gluten-free, what you are really saying is not very tasty. >> my assumption would have been that the gluten-free wouldn't have tasted that good.

>> she spent ten months perfecting her recipes so her food to be great. i would bake, bite, throw out. 52 versions of the chocolate chip cookie to get it right. >> from the very beginning, the chocolate was fabulous, really fabulous. >> she created two personalities for her company. when she is selling to the gluten-free crowd, it is all about how she makes the tastyest gl gluten-free goods. this was sponsored bye-bye the way bakery, a gluten-free bakery. >> when she sponsored a local parent/teacher in town. >> he this make a gift bag and i give a coupon that says, welcome to hastings, come in for a free treat. >> in her store, there is barely a word about gluten-free. >> i think it is a small enough population, i wouldn't get the same traffic i get. there would be people that are

afraid. >> so far, her strategy has worked. she has gotten the locals, who have no idea about her ingredients. >> i was eating this for quite a while. i would say three months and someone said, oh, the new bakery, it is gluten-free. i said, really? >> she has attracted her more niche audience from people that know more about her ingredients. i will probably get ten really good customers that will make a trip regularly for birth days and holidays and people that will come by. >> she has attracted the attention of local restaurants that want a gluten-free offering on their menu. >> the manager came in a few times to get cupcakes because we got our hair cut by the same woman. he said, you know, i bet i can sell your dessert. >> for now, helene is keeping

with her two-prong marketing strategy and with it, she intends by the way bakery to grow on all fronts. >> i'm hoping that i have several stores and that i'm in a couple of regional, if not national, chains and that i'm on lots of restaurant menus. >> in the meanwhile, she is making a lot of people happy. >> it is good. it really is. catering to a niche is all well and good when the business can sustain that. sometimes you have to pull in customers from outside that niche. grant car done is back with us. also here is less mccuen, the founder and ceo of predictable success and incubation company and author of the book "the sinnergist" how to lead your team to predictable success. i was so interested in this story because we talk so much on this show about catering to a niche, how you can set yourself

apart from the big guys but you have to size that market. how do you do that? >> i think for me, i made the big mistake at 29 years old of trying to be an idealist and save the world. it killed me. for years, i was trying to deliver this particular product that i thought would change the world somehow. that's not what my clientele wanted. most people did not want what i was pitching or presenting. i would just tell people to open up your parameters like she is doing to say, hey, we have great food here, period. if she did the gluten delivery, i would walk past and say i don't want anything to do with it. >> exactly like our customer says. she misses out on all this opportunity from people who say, i'm gluten-free, there is a bakery. >> i like what she has done. i think she has a beautiful mind. she has thought this through two things. they have confused hyper local and niche. it might be in her case but in the bakery, it is not. you live in a small town.

i live in a tiny town. you have to get as many people in as possible. the mistake a lot of people do, if they are not getting the tracks, they try to add something niche on top like gluten. 6%, 7% of the population has a gluten allergy. you are probably going to pull down your profitability because the costs of servicing that nearby become problematic. you have a hyper local business and i am thinking how can i change my hours, prices, deck core to get everybody in and you take the niche market and say, how do i service them profitably. >> i started talking to all these other companies and found a company that makes pants and they say they take the same pair of pants and have two completely different websites, marketing the same pair of pants to two

totally different groups. when that customer looking for this thing goes there, they get what they expected and that other clientele can get. >> the hipster sees someone who looks like them. >> it's politics. she is doing what the democrats did. we need to appeal to masses of people that will show up and vote. this is where the gop dropped the ball. this is our message. that's it. take it or leave it. >> instead of having that. so how do you get it so that you are not pulled in 29 different directions then? >> i get the sense. i don't know. i get the sense she has a great focus. that is a fantastic point. when people swing to niche, they lose what they have in the other activity. >> she said, if i opened another store in new york city where the population is much greater, there is much more traffic, maybe i will actually make the market focus orn gluten-free, as

that will set me apart. i don't need to get everyone. there are enough gluten-free people there. thanks very much for the conversation. i appreciate it. >> free shipping offers can be both an opportunity and a challenge to online sellers. here now are five tips on how to survive free shipping this holiday season. one, a free shipping threshold can increase your average order value. if your customers usually sfend about $30, you can offer free shipping at $45 to encourage them to buy more. two, add supported shipping. earn revenue that will help offset costs using adship.com. number three, eliminate double shipping. you can streamline shipping by having your manufacturer or distributorship directly to your customer. four, explore usps flat rate shipping. this option is most effective when shipping out small but dense items.

five, you can offer free upgrades if you can't afford free shipping. upgrade customers from standard ground to second day or overnight to free. it will be a perk that customers will still appreciate, especially if they are shopping last minute. >> still to come, we answer some of your business questions on things like assigning territories to your salespeople and combatting negative online reviews. and giving holiday gifts to employees or clients. keep it in the community with these great gift ideas from other small businesses. we've all had those moments. when you lost the thing you can't believe you lost. when what you just bought, just broke. or when you have a little trouble a long way from home...

as an american express cardmember you can expect some help. but what you might not expect, is you can get all this with a prepaid card. spends like cash. feels like membership. watch out. there may be a hidden revenue stream for the stuff you are throwing out in the trash. valerio has a company that makes billiard tables. he had sawdust all over his workshop. he used to throw that out. now, he takes it and turns it into pellets and that accounts for 40% of his revenue. so this is what you should do. take a look around. see what kinds of stuff you are throwing out and go do an internet search and see if anybody out there wants to buy it. it's your business, tip number 11, find a market for the stuff

you are throwing out. with the holiday season upon us, with he know how difficult it can be to choose the right gift to give to your best the clients and coworkers. this year, santa is not the only one making lists and checking them twice. what better way for a small business owner to celebrate the holidays than by giving those people important to your company presents made by other small business owners. colleen debase is the special projects director at entrepreneur.com. you came with a sack full of gifts for us. >> i did. all made by independent merchants. >> this is a contest that you ran. >> exactly. we got hundreds of submissions and made our final picks based on function, price, deliciousness and also the story behind all of these products too. >> which makes the present all that more meaningful. starting with deliciousness, these cookies. >> anaroi makes those, alfajores, south american cookies. she wanted to stay connecteded

to her culture and the people of the an december. we tried them. they are delicious. >> and easy. an easy, good gift that everybody loved. >> they are individually wrapped too, which is nice. >> moving on. this is more unique. >> yeah, these are made from vintage vinyl records. kitty makes these. she's a corporate refugee. she was going through her vinyl collection and realized they would make good journals and notebooks. her family and friends encouraged her to start her own business and she did. you can have them customized, too. >> wouldn't that be fun? if you know a band they like, it makes it unique. >> you can pick fun songs based on that employee's personality. katy keeps an inventory of the different vintage vinyls she has in. >> or your customer. okay, card holders. >> these are amateur card holders.

edgar smith makes these. he has been infat u waited by airplanes. he wanted to match up his passion for airplanes with his artistic talents so he started making them out of salvaged airplane parts. >> oh. >> it's the wing brace of a retired general aviation aircraft. >> it's great looking, too. >> they can be for business cards. >> you know how much this costs? >> $35. >> and the soaps? >> the soaps are from new jersey. amy had a personal trauma a few years back. her doctors recommended flower essences that can treat different problems and counter negative energy and emotions. she thought it would be great to turn that into a business. she puts flower extracts into soaps and sells them. these might be fun gifts for employees. they say, fun things, don't

worry, be happy, chill out, focus, focus, focus. >> you can have a different message for everyone. >> customized, too. >> okay. the handable. this is neat for your clients. we felt this was very practical. it could be good if you have salespeople. what it is is david block and his fare, aaron block, makes these. aaron block is 78 years old. he didn't want to wake up his wife, watch tv on his smartphone. i need something to attach to my phone or tablet so i don't block it. it's nice if you want to show someone if you are doing a presentation. that way, you don't drop yours. >> it's easy to hold there. >> it's fun. it's unique. no one is going to get that. >> they come in different colors and patterns. >> finally, it looks like a

rocket of some sort. >> this is my personal favorite, i have to say. this is made by two guys who were naval officers. they were the guys that went in and diffused bombs. when their commitment to the military ended, they decided the challenge of entrepreneurship sounded alluring after diffusing the bombs. they decided to make things out of bullets. this is a bullet. it's a bottle opener. every guy in my office has tried to steal this from me. >> now you know what to get everyone in your office. >> you can use it to open a bottle of beer. see, it works. >> and it's great-looking. >> colleen, thank you so much. again, this is great. as small business owners, we want to support each other. what better way to do it? thank you. thanks for this contest. >> my pleasure. time to answer some of "your business" questions.

grant and les are with us. the first is about the best use of your staff. >> i'm growing. if i offer my people who work with me a 1099, is it better to go nationwide, give them the entire united states to work with or give them a specific territory? >> she's talking sales people. how do you divide up the territories? >> i'm going to defer to grant. i will make one point, which is, whatever he says, it doesn't matter. what's more important is that you pick something and give it time to work. the mistake i see people make with territories. they carve them up. somebody starts to scream. sometimes it's the big dog, you do what they say. my advice is do whatever grant is about to tell you, but stick with it. >> i have done it both ways. the benefit of assigning a territory is that he then gets to develop and nurture the relationships.

the down sides are unbelievable. he starts cherry picking. he gets lazy, he gets soft in the market. the way i would do it is give a guy a territory, a guy or gal a territory, but put strict quotas on him. you have to bring new business in every year. >> why would someone get lazy? >> once you work a market over and over, you start thinking, okay, you overqualify clientele, they are not interested. they are not a player. i called them last year. they are with so and so. i could drop a new person into that environment without that data. >> got it. >> sometimes knowledge is power, but it can work against people. the natural inclination is to go to go to the path of least resistance. >> they stop thinking creatively as well. >> the way to prevent it from happening is here, this is your territory as long as you hit this quota. >> grit ad vice, thank you.

a question about dealing with the competition. >> i have been in business for over 25 years and recently, i had people say horrible, negative things about my product and my business. i wanted to stop. what can i do about it? >> it's hard right now. someone says something and it can be multiplied by social media. do you ignore it or get it face on? >> welcome to success. if you are not having people say rotten things about you. if people are saying rotten things about you, you are doing rotten stuff. or you are being successful. i presume she isn't doing rotten stuff. people are saying things because you are successful. >> how do you counter act it? >> set up global arts so you get a ping when something happens. then a material decision. you need somebody to help you with it. we get too concerned about our own business and reputation. get somebody to help you to make a distinction as to whether this is going to do material harm or not.

if it is, do what you can. you get a local coffee shop gets bad reviews taken off yelp. don't get oversensitive about it. do good work. people are going to learn what your reputation is if you do good work. >> the hunting line doesn't stop. chasing a gazelle doesn't go off for a squirrel. i would have no attention on this, zero. you need screamers. you want hateers. if you want to get successful, you have to get ready. they are coming. if you are getting attention from the players, they are going to come take you out. number two, you are going to have a customer that is not satisfied. if you deal with people, you cannot possibly satisfy everyone. i'm not going to be on defense, ever. i'm going to be out pleasing people, pring all the stuff i do. releasing information on the new products, the new services. i have 100 people saying good things, one not.

>> this is about hiring and training employees. >> as i'm growing my business, i'm bringing on new people to train them so i can leverage my time and replicate myself. so my question is, how do i do that without giving away my trade secrets? >> she's going to have to give away some of her trade secrets if she is going to have to replicate herself. >> no business is built on trade secrets. if that's what you think, you have two things, a business is broken. i have to bring people in. i have to let them know what i'm doing. i have to duplicate myself. if that's her fear, her business model is already broken. she needs to put her attention not on what she has, but what she creates. walt disney lost his first idea. someone stole it. so what did he do? let me create something. i'm not worried about copy-cats. >> there are a few tiny businesses that have trade

secrets. a secret sauce or whatever it is. the rest of us, 99% squirrels, don't have that. i agree entirely with grant, this is not an issue for most businesses. they overthink it. i would suggest for kim and other folks with the same fear, reverse it. you want to sit down and write out what you think are your secret sauce, what you think makes your business unique and distinct. start mentoring and coaching your people in how to be better at those things. if that's what makes your business good, you want everybody doing that. start playing your cards like this. >> how do you protect yourself? >> if he leaves my business and does something better with this does something better with this idea that i had, shame on me. shame on me that i didn't keep him and number two, i let the door open for him to go out and build something bigger. >> i agree, it's his first. squirrel, gazelle, gazelle, squirrel. one or the other. thank you so much.

this advice was great and helpful. if you have a question for our experts go to the website, our address is openforum.com/yourbusiness. once you get there, hit the ask the show link. to submit a question for our panel. once again, the website is openforum.com/yourbusiness or if you would rather, just send us an e-mail. the address is yourbusiness@msnbc.com. to learn more about today's show, just click on our website, it's openforum.com/yourbusiness. you'll find all of today's segments plus web exclusive content to help your business grow. follow us on twitter,@msnbcyour biz. please, do not forget. become a fan of the show on facebook. we love getting your feedback. until next time, i'm j.j. ramberg. remember, we make "your business" our business.