it made a difference for countless families across america. and jean would later say, i considered myself such a traditional person. i didn't even cross the street against the light. but i wasn't going to let anybody walk over morty. that is the story of america. of ordinary citizens, organizing, advocating for change. of hope stronger than hate. of love more powerful than any insult or injury. of americans fighting to build for themselves, a nation in which no one is a second class citizen, in which no one is denied their rights. >> that was president obama speaking at the human rights campaign dinner in 2009. this week, jean manford, the families of parents, families,

friends of lesbians and gays passed away, she was 92 years old. and everybody cried, including me on tv. like usual. all right, that does it for us tonight. we'll see you again on monday. but now you get to spend friday night with the reverend al sharpton. have a great evening. thanks, chris, and thanks to you for tuning in. tonight's league, here comes the freakout. the president and vice president are building a plan of action on guns. it is going to be big. it will have the full force of the obama white house behind it. and it is coming soon tuesday. the right wing knows what they're heading into. they know they have a fight on their hands. which is why we're now hearing this kind of garbage. >> to preserve and keep this great republican republic, we may have to shed blood every couple 100 years.

we may have to shed blood every couple 100 years to preserve our basic freedoms. >> wow, shed blood to stop gun safety. i don't think so. we're not going to let the voices of violence and extremism get in the way of this debate, not this time. >> i'm telling you that if that happens it is going to spark a civil war and i'll be glad to fire the first shot. i am not letting my country be ruled by a dictator. i'm not letting anybody take my guns, if it goes an inch further, i'll start killing people. >> start killing people? i mean this is vile, this is ugly stuff. they are in full freakout mode. but we are serious people wanting real change, the threats are all behind us now. people behind newtown, connecticut, to chicago, illinois, are standing up and saying no. this time is different, this

time we wouldn't back down. this time we're not going to let the threats stand in the way of progress and protecting our kids. with me now, e.j.deon, "the washington post" contributor. this week he wrote about people getting on board with gun control. and melissa harris-perry, joining me. >> good to be with you, and melissa. >> what are you looking at, we're getting different reports. >> well, first of all, i understand the folks are freaking out for a reason. which is, there really is momentum now and they are starting to pick up support. what i understand is there is a lot of support for universal background checks, where right now 40 to 50% of gun sales are

through private deal ers, unlicensed dealers, gun shows. closing that loophole seems to have a lot of support in congress. so also, does the ban on the big high-capacity magazines. that idea seems to have grabbed the imagination of a lot of people, including i'm told, are republicans. what they're worried about is the assault weapons ban. vice president biden is going to propose that they push for it. >> he is going to propose a weapons ban? >> he is going to propose it. but that is where they're getting more pushback. apparently some from democrats. and so so on the one hand, the good news is, i think there is a really good shot we'll get some action, which is amazing if you think of where we were four months ago. i think there is going to have to be a lot of struggle with the weapons ban, because that is where the support as i understand it, in congress is the weakest right now. >> now the assault weapons ban, melissa, even some pushback from

some democrats, why would democrats push back on the assault weapons ban? and can we get enough of the other things that will really make a difference? >> so i want to say two things. one, i think we want to be really careful about saying this is fundamentally a democrat-republican issue. the main reason is, whether we do it, or they do it or it is framed that way, we know how it will go down. the republicans won't give an inch. this is a fundamental issue about the civic duty that americans have along with their civil rights. so there is a second amendment, providing that the americans have the right to bear arms. and at the same time it has the language that the right to bear arms comes along with the civic duties. and that means we have to have responsible, reasonable laws. it doesn't mean that all people can own all sorts of guns. so why do you get the pushback from democrats? i think the simple answer is because there is a lot of money in assault weapons.

and that money carries with it enormous, power with the lobbyists, and that shows up in republican and democratic offices. the pressure to allow gun manufacturers and dealers putting the guns on the street to continue to make the profits they want to make is an enormous pressure on republicans and democrats alike. and it will only change when the americans' feelings are stronger than that. >> in your article on melissa's point, you point out house republicans that are in certain states, 12 members in new jersey and new york. 13 pennsylvania, 44 more from midwest. 20 from the west coast. they may be the ones that really make this point that it is not republican or democrat, but they're inclined to vote for gun control. and side with what is the civil -- and right thing to do.

>> yeah, no, i think melissa makes a very important point. this has never been a purely republican and democrat issue. 48 republicans back when the assault weapons bill was originally passed, it since expired, 48 republicans voted for it. this was a different republican party. there were fewer moderates. but i think a lot of the republicans from the northeast, particularly from new york and pennsylvania, from the west coast, a lot of these republicans know that there is a problem for them and a problem for their party. if this entire tone of the party is set by the most right wing members, many of them from one party districts in the south, and so we'll never get anything done on this unless there is significant support from republicans. and there does seem to be developing support from them, particularly for the ban on big magazines and universal background checks. and you would like to see

pressure continue on the assault weapons because -- >> so that would be a big development because if they are talking about supporting and really going against the grain of these more right wingers, whether they be republican or democrat, that means that we may have enough votes to really get something significantly done? >> absolutely, i think that is what is going on right now. and again, that is why the freakout that you showed at the beginning of the show is happening. and i think the nra has -- and i guess rachel maddow made this point the other night. the nra, it has been so long that they have had to argue this issue that they're kind of shocked at how much support, once this issue is framed the way it is now, which is let's take some reasonable steps to prevent something like newtown from happening again. a lot of people including gun owners are on that side. >> right, and i think the freakouts helped to make the point from the other side. when you see somebody speaking

straight to camera saying if i don't get what i want i will start to kill people. your first reaction is whoa, i wouldn't want that person to have a gun. it is like they went so far to make a point that they made the other point. >> that is why i wanted to show people, when you have freakouts you usually look freaky in doing that. >> it is a good rule. >> they said in december that schools should deploy armed officers, listen to this, both of you. >> the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. we need to have every single school in america immediately deploy protection program, proven to work. and by that, i mean armed security. >> the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is to take the gun from them in the first pla place. and then he is an unarmed bad guy.

there is not even logic to that. but the fact is i think this kind of rhetoric has really united americans across party lines. and geographical and regional lines. because people say wait a minute, when you look at virginia tech they had their own police force on campus, and look at that. >> well, i think there are two fallacies, most of the gun violence that we experience is the person coming into the area where there is people. as you know, the aurora shooting, that is not what most gun violence is, and most people are dying from guns in circumstances where everybody in the situation in fact is armed. the second piece is, we assume we know who the good guys or the bad guys is. i mean, i'm a supporter of teachers, but we took corporal punishment out of the schools because we made the decision largely in the country, we didn't want the teachers belting the kids. and now we want them to be

armed, yes. >> let me ask you, e.j., the gun makers who have given a lot of money to the nra, gun donations in the last six years, are estimated up to $39 million, and has paid off. "the huffington post" estimated it is to the tune of $12 billion. so let's not talk that there is not a profit motive involved in a lot of this. >> well, i think it is very important reporting. i always talk to the nra as representing gun manufacturers. and i think the more people who realize this that it is really about manufacturers and not the average gun owner in america, the more people who own guns are going to say wait a minute? does the nra represent my interests or the interests of the manufacturers? and what you would like to see is more reasonable people take

over the nra or start more organizations. when i was a kid, the nra was more about teaching gun safety. it was not about this hard-line political organization. i think the data from gun manufacturers really makes a point that gun owners really need a different organization. >> thank you both for your time this evening. and don't forget to tune into melissa harris-perry saturdays and sundays at 10 a.m. here on msnbc. coming up, president obama's big step towardss -- plus, remember when todd legitimate rape akin said that.

what are these people thinking? i guess they're not. and should president obama be on mt. rushmore? it is a question getting a lot of attention, that debate is coming up. you're watching "politics nat n nation" on msnbc. new prilosec otc wildberry is the same frequent heartburn treatment as prilosec otc. now with a fancy coating that gives you a burst of wildberry flavor. now why make a flavored heartburn pill? because this is america. and we don't just make things you want, we make things you didn't even know you wanted. like a spoon fork. spray cheese. and jeans made out of sweatpants.

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joined the politics nation conversation on neighbor yet? we hope you will. today, our facebook fans were all weighing in on whether or

not president obama should be added to mt. rush more. angela says i welcome it. right next to lincoln would be perfect. denise says, he deserves it. he has done so much for this country. samantha says leave rushmore as it is. obama deserves his own monument. we have more on the debate coming up on the show. but first, we want to hear from you. tell us what you think. please head over to facebook and search "politics nation" and like us to join the conversation that keeps going long after the show ends. ♪

♪ ♪ hi dad. many years from now, when the subaru is theirs... hey. you missed a spot. ...i'll look back on this day and laugh. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. today, a big step toward putting an end to this

eight-year mess that was george w. bush's foreign policy. at the white house, he met with the president of afghanistan and made a big announcement. >> we achieved our central goal, which is, or have come very close to achieving our central goal, which is to decapacitate al-qaeda, to make sure they can't attack us again. by next year, 2014, the transition will be complete. afghans will have full responsibility for their security, and this war will come to a responsible end. >> yes, a reduced role for the u.s. troops will start this spring. at the more than 4,000 -- after more than 4,000 days of combat it is past time for this to be over. we're a step closer to undoing the reckless policy that

bush-cheney left us. no more idea that diplomacy is for weak people, no more idea that the secretary of defense, chuck hagel matters. the president has taken the bush doctrine and kicked it out the door. an historic stamp that president obama is putting on american foreign policy. joining me now is former congressman pat murphy, democrat from pennsylvania. he is the first iraq war veteran collected to congress, and political reporter for "the washington post." first, let me thank you both for being here tonight. >> thank you. >> congressman, you have been long for pullout as i have, even a disagreement with the administration we should have never extended it. what is your reaction to the president's announcement of speeding up the withdrawal of u.s. troops? >> reverend, today is a great

day for the troops. american troops, but also for our country. because today is very significant. the fact that the president has been very clear, we're not accelerating the fact that we're bringing our troops home. thank goodness, we are shifting from a counter-insurgent doctrine to a counter terrorist doctrine. they did their job, they took out osama bin laden, gave afghanistan a chance to stand up for their people. the longest war in american history, about ten years old. it is time to bring the troops home. i tell you, i give president obama a lot of credit because he had the guts to do the right thing. we'll hear it from the far right wing, but president obama did the right thing for american security and for american troops. >> now, that is absolutely right, we're going to hear from the right wing, and many of us that were opposed to this war and wished that it had never gone this far have to give him

credit. and when you look at the fact that the numbers behind the afghanistan war is shocking, the cost of the war, $553.7 billion, dead, over 2,000, wounded, 17,000, 674, and still 66,000 troops there today. to start getting out of this early makes financial sense and it saves american lives. and as the congressman just said if we went in because of al-qaeda and osama bin laden, osama bin laden is no longer among the living. >> yes, that whole argument around costs was the argument that candidate obama made around the iraq war. he of course, campaigned saying that that was the dumb war, afghanistan was the smart war. but here we face a situation

where you list the cost in blood and treasure. and here is the president who is looking at having to shrink the defense budget, which is about $600 billion a year. in looking at his insulation of hagel, they are going to have to preside over a foreign policy that is much different than what we've seen over these last decades. you mentioned there would be grooipi -- there is a lot of -- disagreement even among republicans about the cost of war, about whether or not that is where americans should be spending time. i think you have with obama this idea now of -- that there should be nation-building at home. and that is why this is very much a historic day, i think, in laying out and sort of underscoring what is going to be the obama doctrine of foreign policy going forward. >> isn't that the key,

congressman, that we're looking at the emergence of the obama doctrine, the undoing of the bush doctrine? >> we are, reverend. and it is an historic day. and you know, rev, less than 1% of americans that served in iraq or afghanistan, most americans don't have skin in the game. and we all love the troops. but most americans don't know in the past year in afghanistan there have been 60 of our troops who have been killed on green on blue violence, murdered, basically, by afghan security forces. now is the time to bring these troops home. we're going to keep us very, very -- keep a very small footprint to train the afghan forces and provide counterterrorism, but the days of nation-building after 11 years are now finally over. it is time to nation build here at home. >> and that is -- now i have been saying this a long time. i opposed the war a long time.

and i'm all for nation building, let's start with one called the united states. but what do we think that when we look at the bush doctrine, it adhered to the neo-conservative agenda, launch war, spread democracy to combat terrorism. unlaterally to pursue u.s. interests. when you enter the context of the bush doctrine, you see that chuck hagel who first supported the iraq mission, and then turned around in good conscience and said no, he made this statement in his book. i made myself a promise that if i ever get out of that place, he was talking about vietnam, if i ever got out of that place and was in a position to do something about war, so horrible, so filled with suffering i would do whatever i could to stop it. i have never forgotten that

promise. this is chuck hagel in his book talking about his experiences in vietnam that led him to coming out in opposition as a republican, to the iraq war. don't you think that a lot of this opposition to hagel by some of the far right is that they're still angry at him that he came out against the iraqi war after it had started. and he had formerly supported it? >> i think there is certainly some truth to that. but what is interesting about that, i think in many ways, hagel's position, backing the war, backing funding of the war initially and then having further questions about it and criticizing it, really mirrors how the american people have also evolved on this war. the most -- most polls show that folks think these wars were a mistake, and are certainly much too costly to continue to engage in, given the financial situation that most folks are

facing now. and so you have a president who again is turning to the economy here, and in looking to wind down these wars. we had two large ground wars going on with this president, when he first got into office. and by 2014 there will be a very, very limited footprint there in afghanistan. >> well, i pray it all works without a hitch because we need to be in that position. thank you for your time tonight, and both of you have a great weekend. >> you too. >> you too, reverend, thank you so much. coming up, here they go again. republicans threatening to block money to people hurt by hurricane sandy. what are they thinking? plus, a congressman is talking about "legitimate rape" yes. unbelievable. amazing. [ female announcer ] you walk into your laundry room and it just hits you!

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we are just ten days away from president obama's second inauguration. the first term saw history made.

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and be able to focus on other things, like each other, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. since republicans flopped in the election, they have been given all manner of advice about how to fix the party. and today, peggy noonan, the conservative columnist for "the wall street journal" wrote it is pirate time for the gop. pirate time. she says now is the time to put a dagger between their teeth, wave a sword, and swing to the enemy. the president's issue, take them, steal them, they're never wrong, they're never yours. well, peggy noonan has gone

pirate and wants the gop to go pirate, on issues like taxes, immigration, guns. in other words, become more like president obama. ahoy there, maties, that is a swash buckling idea. but unfortunately, the gop is going the other way. they are likely to cut funds, demand offsets. these black-hearted rogues include congressman rogers, tom mcclintock. give them all an eye patch. that is just awful. and the party is not getting better on women's issues either. today, a republican lawmaker had this to say about mr. "legitimate rape," todd akin. >> he went on and said in the situation of legitimate rape, a woman's body has a way of

shutting down so that pregnancy would not occur. he is partly right on that. i'm a doctor, i delivered lots of babies, and i know about these things. it is true. >> aggggg, that is terrible, give him an eye patch, too. folks, these tea party pirates are forcing republicans to walk the plank. there is no one at the rudder, and this ship of fools is sinking fast. joining me now is a swash buckler in his own right, nyu professor and former senior adviser to the kerry campaign. he just wrote a "daily beast" column saying "what we have in washington is not a functioning congress but a one-ring circus on the right," and also, now visiting professor of journalism

at the university of georgia. she has given out a few black eyes in her time. i don't know about patches. thank you both for joining me. >> glad to be here. >> bob, are there any reasonable republicans left to put the ship back on course? >> well, i don't agree with some of the analysis that peggy noonan gives, but her recommendations are reasonable and sensible. and if you talk to republican strategists privately, they all say they want to do this. look, what noonan wants is a party that is more like ronald reagan, who made a deal on immigration with ted kennedy, a deal on social security with tip o'neill and deals with democrats on taxes. but today's republicans, the folks in the house, the people you just talked about. they're reaganites in name only, the real rhinos in the republican party. they won't give an inch and it will be very difficult to get anything done. we'll see self-inflicted crisis after another.

it is bad for america. >> very bad for america. cindy, when you look at -- there is a website called "days without a gop rape mention.com count, inspired by steven colbert, they had to reset their clock to zero after this new leadership rape comment from congressman gingrey. i mean, why are they still talking about rape? >> you know, i still talked to mother, who lives in a town in alabama. i said mother, you know what, alabama no longer has the most crazy members of congress, georgia has that distinction now. we have the craziest members of comment. so phil gingrey gets up there when the gop was hoping we finally got all of that madness about rape behind us.

what does he do for no good reason, but resurrect it. and the reason he did so is because he really believes that foolishness. these are people who really believe the strange things that they say. paul brown, another republican from georgia, said several months ago that evolution and the big bang theory that the earth is billions of years old. these are ideas straight from the fires of hell. >> he was on the science committee, by the way. >> exactly. so the republican party is going to have a very difficult time remaking its image, as long as these are the people they have in congress. >> now, when you look at the fact that they're at an historic level of unpopularity. the 2012 average approval rating was 15% for them. the lowest in the 38 year history of gallup.

they had the lowest. and you wrote, bob, that the gop is the party that wouldn't compromise. the party that threatens economic chaos. the anti-medicare, anti-social security, anti-woman, anti-hispanic, anti-gay, anti-young party. there is no future in that. >> well, there is no future in that for them politically. i mean, you have a bunch of people who come. and i think cindy is absolutely right about that. the georgia delegation, coming from districts that are very safe where they only worry about a challenge from the far right. so they keep moving to the far right. and you get people like gingrey, who is a disgrace as a doctor, i don't know where he went to medical. and he clearly is a disgrace to the party. but what this does is make the face of the republican party an increasingly small, demographically limited group of american people.

maybe they can keep their house seats but never will they win the presidency if they go down this road. and what you see is they're attacking chris christie. he went on television, he is very conservative. he is not my favorite guy. he is a very interesting personality. >> they make him look good. i disagree with a lot of what he does, but he at least has more political, strategic sense than they do. >> well, he said the word compromise, and they got mad at him. the truth is you can't make the united states of america, the greatest democracy in the world work if you take the government and render it totally dysfunctional. >> now, cindy, democratic leaders wrote a letter to the president about what will the gop do if they balk on the debt limit. they wrote you must be able to

take any lawful steps to ensure that america does not break its promises and trigger a global economic crisis, without congressional approval if necessary. it is a very bold statement. >> it was a very bold statement. but it is required in this time of absolute republican recklessness. the president cannot allow the house republicans to take the economy to the brink of the abyss, as they did in 2011. he has already made it absolutely clear that he does not have any intention of negotiating with them on the debt limit. these are bills that have -- this is money that has already been spent. we just need to pay back the people who have lent us this money. >> right. >> and the economy worldwide would be hurt if they didn't raise the debt limit. so i think it gives him even

more negotiating room and maneuvering room when republicans know that democrats in the senate stand behind him, endorsing whatever plan he feels is necessary to get around them. >> that is right, i am going to have to leave it there, thank you for your time tonight. >> thank you, both. coming up, who is more deserving of mt. rushmore? barack obama or ronald reagan? it is hot, and it is next. and oh, no, from the muppets to kermit, to sponge bob, the right wingers at fox have a new conspiracy on what is advancing a liberal agenda. be afraid, america, be very afraid.

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up next, we have long heard republicans say ronald reagan deserves to be on mt. rushmore. but does president obama deserve a spot? it is a question getting a lot

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every president wants a chance to have their legacy cemented into american history. literally. over 70 years ago, sculptors finished carving the faces of four american presidents into mount rushmore in south dakota. george washington, thomas jefferson, theodore roosevelt etched in stone forever. but is there room for another? conservatives long argued their idol, president reagan is is worthy of the honor. but what about this? does president obama deserve to be up there with the others? it is a question raised in the national journal today. and it has everyone talking and debating. joining me now is the host of "the cycle" here on msnbc, and

abbey huntsman, host and producer. thank you both for your time. >> thank you. >> what about those who say obama is not ready? reagan should be there first. >> i am not ready to put reagan on mount rushmore at all. we're talking literally, we're not really literally going to have a sculptor and chise los angeles new name -- we're going to do it, you and i? >> okay, all right. >> reagan or -- >> i'm not putting up reagan at all. i'm not ready to put up obama, i think he had a very strong first term, saving detroit, ending two wars, changed american fundamental ways, especially as much as you could from the dump that bush left us with. but i want to see more, what are you going to be able to do on

gun control, gay rights, so we can fundamentally change america for a larger group of americans. >> all right, he says he is not ready yet. >> that is really shocking, this is a very premature celebration, a lot like the nobel prize that obama won -- >> we're not having a celebration, we're having a discussion. >> but even talking about it, i think it is premature. because it takes time. i mean, the difference between politics and history is time. history is really the best way to judge presidents. and it takes time to judge, as you know, if the policies that barack obama is putting in place right now, will affect people down the road. >> then by that math, clearly we're not putting reagan on any mount rushmore. >> wait a minute, wait a minute, because the national journal when they raised it today. it is a very good point. how much will it affect the future of the country? then how did theodore roosevelt

get up there? what did he do to help the future of the country, tell me how speak softly and carry a big stick affected matter, ronald reagan, are not qualified. what are the qualifications? >> i mean, i would like to know, you raised the segment, you said what are the qualifications for getting up there. look, i don't know if we're ready to put reagan or obama or clinton, i don't know why he is not a part of the discussion, i don't know if we're ready to put

them up there. but i think given a little time they will be seen as great presidents. >> but you look at reagan, he ended the cold war. we have to have a legacy that changed the country. obama was the first black president. that in itself is such an accomplishment that he will always, always be remembered for. >> and he stopped two wars, and the whole question of finance reform on wall street and health care. he has done some concrete things. i think -- the reason i raised teddy roosevelt, a lot of people can say he was more of a character than a transforming president. i can name literally things that president obama has done. now, i'm trying to say if teddy roosevelt is the measure, i think it strengthens the case for obama. >> well, reverend, i would love to ask you if you would pick one republican on mount rushmore, who would it be? >> we're only on another nine minutes, i need time. >> i think that eisenhower is a good example, he changed our

country, but if you were to ask obama if he would rather have his face on a mountain or be remembered in the hearts and minds of americans, i am pretty sure he would take the latter. we don't really live in a society where we would want to put our face on a mountain. >> but if you had to choose one or the other? >> i think one thing in all seriousness, is that president obama all ways, from all reports, thought of himself in a big way and tried to be thought of in a big way. he said about -- how he always set his sights high. she says just two years after arriving in the senate he spoke about becoming one of the greatest presidents. a transformative figure, who would heal the country's divisions, address the most critical problems and turn americans into a hopeful new direction. that is a noble thing to aspire

to. >> of course it is noble, and he has clearly been that sort of person throughout his life. when we read about him at harvard, he clearly tried to do those sorts of things, healing division. now being the first black president, being a liberal or moderate president, at this time he had republicans attacking him or obstructing him in the way -- this division, they're going to run the other way and make sure you don't get another term. these sorts of things. so he is trying to find that common ground that we would hope he would find, that he is being noble for looking for. and we're like no, we refuse to give it to you, we'll take our ball and go home. >> but abbey lincoln had to face -- >> nobody has had obstruction like obama. >> nobody has it like him. >> tell us what you really think. >> but the reaction deals with whether or not one achieves greatness or not. and i think he has done great things. >> and i think the next four years he will be challenged as we know.

he has a lot coming up in the next few months. if he can come out looking like a leader, i think that will say a lot. i think it is all about time. we can say he got us through these really difficult times. >> he looks like a leader to me. already, john boehner can't even lead his own caucus. >> let me say, abbey, thank you for showing up tonight. you're a good sport. and tell chris matthews, take me with him to mount rushmore. i would love to see the pictures of chris walking around mount rushmore. thank you for your time, tonight, have a great evening. >> up next, first right wingers had a problem with sponge bob square pants, but you won't believe when they're accusing of a liberal agenda next. ♪

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finally tonight, more child's play over at fox news. for months, they have been obsessed with hollywood's so-called liberal agenda. and nobody has escaped criticism. not even creatures who live in pineapples under the sea. >> sponge bob is talking a lot about global warming, and only looking at it from one point of view. >> clearly, nickelodeon is pushing a global warming agenda. >> oh, yeah, clearly that sponge has an agenda. the truth is, the right has uncovered a liberal agenda in just about every movie. anti-oil hog wash, monsters versus aliens had an agenda. even the poor penguin in "happy feet."