but today, the organization endures, they have more than 200,000 members and supporters. it made a difference for countless families across america. and jean would later say, i considered myself such a traditional person. i didn't even cross the street against the light. but i wasn't going to let anybody walk over morty. that is the story of america. of ordinary citizens, organizing, advocating for change. of hope stronger than hate. of love more powerful than any insult or injury. of americans fighting to build for themselves, a nation in which no one is a second class citizen, in which no one is denied their rights. >> that was president obama speaking at the human rights campaign dinner in 2009.

this week, jean manford, the families of parents, families, friends of lesbians and gays passed away, she was 92 years old. >> thanks, chris, and thanks to you for tuning in. tonight's lead, here comes the freakout. the president invites president building a plan of action on guns. it's going to be big. it will have the full force of the obama white house behind it and it's coming as soon as tuesday. the right wing knows what they're heading into. they know they have a fight on their hands, which is why we're now hearing this kind of

garbage. >> to preserve and keep this great republican republic, we may have to shed blood every couple hundred years. we may have to shed blood every couple hundred years to preserve our basic freedoms. >> wow. shed blood to stop gun safety. i don't think so. we're not going to let the forces of violence and extremism get in the way of this debate. not this time. >> i'm telling you, if that happens, it's going to spark a civil war and i'll be glad to fire the first shot. i am not letting this country be ruled by a dictator. if it goes one inch further, i'm going to start killing people. >> i mean, this is vile. this is ugly stuff. they are in full freakout mode. we're serious, people, wanting real change. the tricks, the threats, it's all behind us now. people from newtown, connecticut to chicago, illinois are standing up and saying no more. this time it's different.

this time we won't back down. this time, we're not going to let the threats stand in the way of progress and protecting our kids. with me now, washington post columnist and msnbc contributor, this week, he wrote about the need for republicans to get on board with gun control. and melissa harris perry host here on msnbc. thank you both for joining me tonight. >> good to be with you. >> e.j., what are you hearing about what the administration is looking to pass here? we're getting different reports. >> well, what i understand, first of all, i think the folks freaking out are freaking out for a reason. there is momentum and they are starting to pick up support. what i understand is there is a lot of support for universal background checks, where, right now, 40-50% of gun sales are through pry vat dealers,

unlicensed dealers, gun shows. closing that loophole seems to have a lot of support on congress. so does the ban on the high capacity magazines. that idea seems to have grabbed the imagination of a lot of people including, i am told, republicans. what they're worried about is the assault weapons ban. they are going to propose it. they are going to push for it. >> he is going to propose the weapons ban? >> he is going to propose it. by that's where they're getting more pushback. apparently, from some democrats. on the one hand, the good news is i think there's a really good shot we're going to get some action, which is amazing, if you think of where we were four months ago. i think there's going to have to be a lot of struggle and organizing. >> now, the assault weapons ban, melissa, even the pushback from

some democrats, why would democrats push back on an assault weapons ban. and can we get enough of the other things that would really make a difference? >> i want to say two things. one, i think we ought to be really careful about saying this is a fundamental democrat issue. whenever we do that or it's framed that way, we already know how that's going to go down. republicans will not give even an inch. this is a fundamental issue about the civic duty. there is a second amendment that provides for americans to have the right to bear arms. and, at the same time, it requires within that same language that the right to bear arms comes along with a specific set of duties that mean we have to have responsible, reasonable law. so why do you get the pushback from democrats? it's the simplest, easiest answer. there is a lot of money in assault weapons.

and that money carries with it enormous lobbyist power in washington. those lobbyists show up in democratic offices. the pressure to allow those putting guns on the streets. >> e.j., let me ask you this, though. in your article on melissa's point, you point out house republicans, 12 in new jersey and new york, 20 from the west coast. they may be the ones that really make this point that is not republican or democrat. but they're inclined to vote for gun control and side with what

is the civil and right thing to do. >> yeah, i think melissa makes an important point. 38 republicans back in '94, when the assault weapons ban was originally passed, it's since expired, 38 different republicans voted for it. i think a lot of those republicans from the northeast, particularly from new york and pennsylvania, a lot of these republicans know there's a problem for them and a problem for their party. if the entire tone of the party is set by the most right wing members, many of them from the south. and so we'll never get anything done on this unless there is significant support from republicans. and there does seem to be developing support from them particularly on the big ban on the magazines and universal background checks.

>> so that would be a big development. if they are talking about supporting and really going against the grain of these more right wingers, that means that we may have enough votes to really get something significantly done? >> i absolutely think that's what's going on right now. again, that's why the freakout that you showed at the beginning of the show is happening. and i think the nra -- rachel maddow made this point the other night. it's been so long since they've had to argue this issue, they've been shocked. let's take some reasonable steps to prevent something like newtown from happening again. a lot of people including gun owners are on that side. and i think the freakout helped on the other side.

when they say if i don't get what i want, i'm going to start killing people. your first reaction is whoa. >> that's why i wanted to show people when you have freakouts, you usually look freaky in doing them. >> it's a good rule. >> the nra wane lapierre said in december that school should employ armed officers. listen to this, both of you. >> the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. we need to have every single school in america immediately deploy a protection program proven to work. and, by that, i mean armed security. >> the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is to take the gun from him in the first place. and then he's an unarmed bad guy.

there's not even logic to that. but the fact is that i think this kind of rhetoric has really united americans across party lines and geographic and regional lines because people are saying, wait a minute. when you look at virginia tech, they had their own police force on campus and look what happened. >> i think there are two fallacies there. one is the assumption that most of the gun violence that we experience is a bad guy with a gun who comes into a certain chance of unarmed people. as important as newtown is, that is not what most gun violence is and most people are dying from guns. the second piece assumes we know who the good guys are. i'm a supporter of teachers, but we took corporal punishment out of schools that we didn't want teachers beating our kids with belts.

and now we want them to be armed, yes. well, let me ask you this, e.j. also, the money in this, when gun makers are looking at the fact they made a lot of money and they've given a lot of money to the nra gun industry donations in the last six years, up to an estimated $39 million and has paid off, the huffing ton post has reported the tune of $12 billion. let's not talk about there's not a profit motive involved in a lot of this. >> well, i think this is really important. i think the more people realize this, that it's really about manufacturers and not the average gun owner in america. the more people who own guns is going to say wait a minute, is it representing my interest or more interest to the manufacturers. what you'd like to see is start

new organizations. the nra was mostly about teaching gun safety. it wasn't this hard-lying political organization. and i think all of this data really makes a point that a gun owner needs a different organization. >> e.j., dion and melissa harris perry, thank you both for your time this evening. and don't forget to tune in saturdays and sundays at 10:00 a.m. here on msnbc. coming up, president obama's big step toward demolishing the mess that bush created. leading with afghanistan's president and making a big announcement. plus, remember when todd "legitimate rape" aiken sent the republican party scrambling into embarrassment mode? today, a sitting congressman

said aiken was partly right. what are these people thinking? i guess they're not. and should president obama be on mount rushmore? it's a provocative question getting a lot of debate today. that's coming up. you're watching "politics nation" on msnbc. with the spark cash card from capital one, olaf gets great rewards for his small business! pizza! [ garth ] olaf's small business earns 2% cash back on every purchase, every day! helium delivery. put it on my spark card! [ pop! ]

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have you joined the "politics nation" nation conversation on facebook yet? we hope you will. today, our facebook fans were all weighing in on whether

president obama should be added to mount rushmore. angela says i welcome it. right next to lincoln would be perfect. denise says he deserves it. he's done so much for this country. samantha says leave rushmore as is. obama desempbs his own monument. we've got more on the rushmore debate coming up in the show. but, first, we want to hear from you. tell us what you think. please head over to facebook and search politics nation and like us to join the conversation that keeps going long after the show ends. it smells worse, and it can happen any time -- to anyone! like when i ran to catch the train to work and a draft blew my skirt up and everybody here saw my unmentionables. yeah, and they aren't even cute. hello, laundry day. no... stress sweat can happen to anyone, anytime -- and it smells worse than ordinary sweat. get 4x the protection against stress sweat.

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today, a big step toward putting an end to this eight-year mess that was george w bush's foreign policy. at the white house, president obama met with afghanistan's president and he made a big announcement. we achieved our central goal, or have come very close to achieving our central goal, which is to decapacity al-qaida to make sure that they can't attack us again. by the end of next year, 2014, the transition will be complete. afghans will have full responsibility for their security. and this war will come to a responsible end. >> yes, a reduced role for u.s. troops will start this spring. after more than 4,000 days of combat, it is close to being

over. no more of the arrogant attack first neocon fantasy. it's why the nomination of chuck hagel matters. the president is taking the bush doctrine and kicking it out the door. a historic stamp. joining me now is former congressman patrick murphy, democrat from pennsylvania. he's the first iraq war veteran elected to congress. and nia malika henderson, first, let me thank you both for being here tonight. congressman, you've been long for a pullout. we should have never extended

it. what's your reaction of speeding up the withdrawal of u.s. troops? >> reverend, today is a great day for the american troops, but also to our country. the fact that the president's been very clear, we're accelerating the fact that we're bringing our troops home. thank goodness. we are shifting to a counter terrorism doctrine. we are bringing our troops home because they did their job. they took out bin laden. the longest war in american history, over ten years time, are coming home. i gave president obama credit because he had the guts to do the right thing. president obama did the right thing for american security and american troops.

>> it is to wish that they would have never gone this far and would have to give him credit. when you look at the fact that the numbers behind the afghanistan war is astounding. they are 11.3 years, the cost of the war, $557.3 billion. dead, 2,174, wounded, 17,674 and, still, 66,000 troops there today to start getting out of this early makes financial sense and it saves american lives. >> yes, that whole argument around cost was the argument that candidate obama made around

the iraq war. here, we face a situation where you listed the costs there in treasure. that budget is about $600 billion a year in looking at his insulation of hagel. they are going to have to preside over a foreign policy that is much different over these last decades. in some ways, i think, the republican doctrine of foreign policy which is about this bush doctrine. there's a lot of disagreement, even among republicans about the cost of war and whether or not americans should be spending time. i think you have, with obama, this idea, now, that there should be nation building at home. that's why this is very much a

historic day in sort of underscoring what's going to be the obama doctrine, a foreign policy going forward. isn't that the thing? the undoing of the bush doctrine? >> we are, reverend. and nia is right. it is a historic day. most americans don't have skin in the game. and we all know the troops. just the past year alone in afghanistan, there have been 60 of our troops who have been murdered by afghan security forces. now is the time to bring these troops home. the days of nation building are now finally over.

it is time to nation build here at home. now, i've been saying this a long time. i'm all for nation building. let's start with one called the united states. when we look at the bush doctrine, it adhered to the neoconservative objective. unilaterally pursue u.s. military interest. and when you see that chuck hagel turned around in good conscious and said no, that he would not. and he made this statement in his book. he says i made myself a promise that if i ever get out of that place and was ever in a position

to do something about war, i would do whatever i could to stop it. i have never forgotsen that promise. this is chuck hagel in his book talking about his experiences in vietnam and led him to come out in opposition as a republican to the iraqi war. don't you think a lot of this opposition to hagel by some of the far right is that they're still angry at him that he came out against the after the war had started? i think there is an awesome truth to that. but what's interesting, in many ways, hagel's position, back in funding the war and having furt questions about him, criticizing it. really mirrors how the american people have also evolved on this war. most polls show that folks think these wars were a mistake and

are certainly much too costly to continue to engage in the financial situation that most folks are facing now. so you have a president who is turning to the economy mere and looking to wind down these wars. we had two very large ground wars. >> i pray that it works without a hitch. >> thank you for your time tonight. >> coming up, here they go again. republicans threatening to block money owed to people from hurricane sanity. >> unbelievable. amazing.

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we are just ten days away from president obama's second inauguration. the first term saw history made. a health care law, financial reform, the end of don't ask, don't tell. and he says the best is yet to come. so does he belong on mount rushmore? that debate is heating up and is coming up. using robotics and mobile technology, verizon innovators have made it possible for teachers to teach, and for a kid... nathan. tadpole. ... to feel like a kid again. because the world's biggest challenges deserve even bigger solutions. powerful answers. verizon. for a professional cleansing device? join the counter revolution and switch to olay pro-x. get cleansing results as effective as a $200 system. guaranteed or your money back.

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because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaa's commitment to serve the military, veterans, and their families is without equal. begin your legacy. get an auto-insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve. since republicans flopped in the election, they've been getting all kinds of advice about how to fix the party. today, peggy noonan wrote an article called it's pirate time for the gop. pirate time. she says now the time to put a dagger between their teeth, wave a sword, grab a rope and swing to the enemy's gallliean. the they never belonged to him. they're yours.

well, shiver me timbers. peggy noonan has gone pirate. she's looking to taxes, immigration, guns. in other words, become more like president obama. ahoi, there, maties. that's a swash buckling idea. but, unfortunately, the gop is going the other way. political says they're vowing to pillage next week cutting funds on demanding offsets. these include congressman hal rogers, mik mulvaney and tom mcclintock. give them all an eye patch. that's just awful. today, a republican lawmaker had this to say about mr. legitimate rape, todd aiken. >> he went on and said, you

know, in a situation of a rape, a legitimate rape, a woman's body has a way of shutting down so that pregnancy would not occur. he's partly right on that. i'm an ob-gyn doctor and i've delivered lots of these things. it is true. >> that easterble. give him an eye patch, too. folks, these tea party republicans are forcing people to walk the plank. joining me now is a swash buckle in his own right, bob schrum, nyu professor. he just wrote a daily beast column saying, what we have in washington is not a functioning congress, but a one-ring circus on the far right. and, also with me, cynthia

tucker, syndicated columnist and now visiting professionalism of journalism at the university of georgia. thank you both for joining me. >> glad to be here. >> bob, are there any reasonable republicans left to put the ship back on course? >> well, i don't agree with some of the analysis that peggy gives. but her recommendations are reasonable and sensible. if you talk privately, they'll all say they want to do this. what noonan wants is a party like ronald reagan. a deal on social security, deals with democrats on taxes. but today's republicans, these folks in the house, the people you just talked about, they're regaenites in the real party. they're not guilty going to give an inch. i think we're going to see self

inflicted crisis after self-inflicts crisis. it's good for the democrats, but bad for america. >> very bad for america. you look at a web site called days without a gop rape mentioned dot com. that's the name of it. it's inspired by steven kobert. they had to reset their clock to zero after this new legitimate rape comment i mean, why are republicans still talking about rape, cynthia. >> you know, rev, a few months ago, i told my mother who still lives in alabama in a tiny little town that i grew up in. i said mother, you know what? alabama no longer has the craziest members of congress. georgia has that distinction now.

so phil gets up there when the gop was hoping we finally got all of that madness about rape behind us. what disease he do for no good reason but resurrect it? and the reason he did so is because he really believes that foolish nsz. these are people who really believed the strange things that they say. paul brown said several months ago that evolution and the big bang theory that the earth is billions of years old, these are ideas stralgt from the fires of held. >> he was on the science committee,by the way. >> exactly. >> now, when you look at the fact that they're at a historic level of unpopularity, the 2012

average approval rating was 125% for them. the lowest in the 38-year history of gallop, they had the lowest. and you wrote, bob, that the gop is the party that won't compromise. the party that threatens economic chaos. the antimedicare, antisocial security, anti-hispanic, anti-gay, there is no future in that? >> there is no future in that for them, politically. uch a bunch of people who come, and i think cynthia is absolutely right about that. they come from districts where they only worry about a challenge from the far right. so they keep moving far to the right. but what this does is make the republican party the face of an increasingly small, increasingly

isolated, demographically limited group of people in america. and, you know, maybe they can keep their house seats. but they're never going to win the presidency if they go down this road. you may notice e notice what they're doing right now is beginning to attack chris christie and -- he's not my favorite guy, but he's an interesting personality. they make him look good, but he has at least more political strategic sense than they do. >> he said the word compromise and they got mad at him. the truth is you can't make the united states of america the greatest democracy in the world work if you're going to take the government and render it totally dysfunctional. these people hate the government. they want to destroy it. >> cynthia democratic leaders

wrote a letter about what to do on a debt limit. and it reads you must be willing to take any lawful steps to ensure america does not break its promises and trigger a global, economic crisis without congressional approval, if necessary. it's a very bold statement. >> it was a very bold statement. but it is required in this time of absolute republican recklessness. the president cannot allow the house republicans to take the economy to the brink of the abis as they did in 2011. he has already made it absolutely clear that he does not have any intention of negotiating with them on the debt limit. this is money that has already been spent. we just need to pay back the people who have lent us this money.

and the economy, worldwide, would be hurt if they didn't raise the debt limit. so i think it gives him even more negotiating room and maneuvering room when republicans know that they stand behind him in whatever he feels is necessary to get around them. >> i'm going to have to leave it there. thanks for your time tonight. >> thank you both. >> coming up, who is more deserving of mount rushmor. barack obama or ronald reagan. it's hot and it's next. and, oh, no, from the mup ets to kermit to sponge bob. the rieng wingers have a new conspiracy advancing a liberal agenda. be afraid, america. be very afraid.

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every president wants a chance to have their legacy cemented in american history. literally. over 70 years ago, sculptors finished carving the faces of four american presidents into mount rushmore in south dakota. george washington, thomas jefferson, theodore roosevelt and abraham lincoln etched in stone forever. but is there room for another? conservatives have long argued their idoled president ronald reagan is worthy of the honor. but does president obama deserve to be up there with the others? it's a provocative question being raised in an article in the "national journal" today and it has everyone talking and

debating. joining me now is host of "the cycle, msnbc and abbey huntsman. thank you boet for your time. >> what about those who say obama isn't ready? reagan should go there first. i'm not ready to put reagan on mount rushmore at all. we're talking figuratively, right? >> you're on politics nation. we have chizles and hammers here. >> okay. all right. >> reagan or obama? >> i'll put up reagan, you can put up obama. we'll chisel together. >> i think he had a very strong first term, saving detroit, ending two wars, aca, changed americans fundamentally, as best he could from the dump that bush

left us. but i want to see a little bit more. what are you going to be able to do with immigration and gay rights so that we can fundamentally change america. all right. isn't that surprising? >> that is very shocking. a lot like the nobel peace prize. >> we're having a discussion. nobody celebrated it yet. >> but even talking, i think it's premature because it takes time. the difference between politics and history is time. and i think the best way -- history is really the best way to judge presidents. and it takes time, as you say, to know if the policies that president obama is putting in place right now, how it's going to affect people down the road. >> wait a minute. wait a minute. the national journal, how much

will it affect the future of the country. and how did teddy roosevelt get up there? >> i mean, you look at the four presidents that are up there. >> no, i said one. tell me how speak softly and carry a big stick affected the rest of the country. >> these guys are part of what made our country the way it is today. you look at lincoln who ended slavery. >> i didn't say lincoln. teddy roosevelt. >> he represents what everybody should be today. >> oh, he's a republican icon. i get it. what i'm saying is how do we determine the qualifications that are already there. what are the qualifications? >> i would like to know. you raise the segment, so what are the qualifications for getting up there. >> look, i don't know if we're

ready to put obama or clinton -- he's another great american president -- e i don't know if we're ready to put them up there. >> you look at reagan, he ended the cold war. ob was the first black president. that is something that will always be remembered. >> and he stopped two wars and the whole question of finance reform on wall street and health care. i mean, he has done some concrete things. i can, again, the reason i raised teddy roosevelt is that a lot of people could say that teddy roosevelt was more of a character than a transformative president. i can name, literally, things that president obama has done. i'm going to say that if teddy roosevelt is the measure, it strengthens the case for president obama. >> if you had to pick one republican, who would it be? >> we only have another nine

minutes. >> i think eisenhower is a good one. really changed our country. but if you were to ask obama if he would rather have his face on a mountain or be remembered in the hearts and minds of americans, i'm pretty sure he would take the latter. >> president obama always thought of himts in a big way and aspired to be thought of in a big way. jodi character says about how, you know, he always set his sights high. he says just two years after arriving in the senate, he spoke about becoming one of the greatest presidents who would heal the country's divisions,

address his most critical problems and turn americans into a hopeful, new direction. that is a noble thing to aspire to. >> of course it's a noble thing to aspire to. he was clearly trying to do those sort of things. that's the sort of person he is. he's had people distracting him and saying we're going to run the other way. we're going to make sure that you don't get another term and these sorts of things. he is trying to find that kind of ground. we would hope that he's being noble for looking for it. >> but abbey lincoln had to face a lot -- >> nobody's had obstruction like obama. >> nobody's had it like him.

>> but the reaction deals with whether one achieves greatness or not. i think the president has done great things. >> the next four years, he's going to be challenged as we know it. if he can overcome this and come out looking like a leader, i think that will say a lot. he got us through these really difficult times. >> he looks like a leader to me already. let me say, abbey, you're a good sport to show up tonight. call me in about a week. i'd love to see those pictures of chris walking around mount rushmore. thanks for your time tonight. have a great weekend. up next, first right wingers had a problem with sponge bob square pants. but you won't believe who they're accusing of being a

liberal agenda this time. that's next.

finally tonight, more child's play over at fox news. for months, they've been obsessed with hollywood's so called liberal agenda. and no one has escaped criticism. not even creatures who live in pineapples under the sea. >> sponge bob is talking about global warming and he's only looking at it from one point of view. >> clearly, nickelodeon is pushing a global warming agenda. >> oh, yeah, clearly, that sponge has an agenda. the truth is the rights uncovered a liberal agenda in just about every movie. even the poor penguin in happy feet, he was a marxist.