you've got to think, damn, what's the possible consequence that could happen behind this, you know? and a lot of people don't think about that, man. a lot of people don't ponder the outcome of what they doing. they just do it until they realize, damn, man, this consequence is too harsh, what i just did. the reward don't outpay the risk. and before you know it, you're paying with your life, man. i'm paying with my life. i've got 50 years, man? you know, that's a life. i'm 27. 50 plus 27. 77 years old, are you serious? come on, man. that's life.

we're going into nut country. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with this. paranoid america is climbing out of its bunker. the near possibility, the near possibility that the obama administration might stop the easy sale of the scariest guns to the scariest people has aroused the slippery slope crowd. these cousins of the grassy noel folks believe that any limit on the wide-open market for guns and ammo threatens their own hardware. any reasonable action by the american people to stop the carnage is to these paranoids the first unfaultering step

towards mass confiscation of everything from shotguns to daisy rifles. well, tonight we let you hear from the craziest of the crazies. my question, are the regular gun owners of this country, people who go out and hunt in hunting season, the people who shoot skeet, simply like to pack their own bullets, regular gun enthusiasts, are they going to listen to these nut cases or to joe biden when he offers proposals next week on background checks and high capacity magazines. who are the people that are going to decide this issue? i mean, the gun owners going to go with, the wild bunch or the town posse? david corn is washington bureau chief for "mother joseph" and joey reid is managing editor of "the grewo." joey, the regular gun owners, pennsylvania ooip owners, practice sheeting and get good at it with a couple of shots, that's all you get with a deer, are they going to go with the nuts? >> you know what, chris, i grew up in colorado, people who

hunted. colorado is a big hunting state and i don't think anybody i've ever met that's a responsible gun owner can side with for lack of a better word these loony tunes out here because they are doing something different. they are stockpiling. they are getting assault rifles. these are not normal gun owners what. you're hearing from now is the absolute fringe, and, unfortunately, they are being allowed to speak for the pro second amendment crowd. >> david, we're going to show the worst of the worst in a minute but first your thoughts. will they go with the regular gun owners, people in the nra in pennsylvania and they vote democrat or republican. >> sure, sure. >> are they going to go with the crazies like james yaeger, we'll show him and alex jones again. >> you know what's crucial to this is what clinton did back in '94. he got an assault weapons ban through congress over the nra opposition and the opposition of many republicans and some democrats, and the way he got it was by bringing the cops, the police. >> i know, but how many seats

did he lose over that? >> lost a lot of seats so you've got to keep the fight going after you win so the way to get people to side with responsible gun control, gun violence prevention, is to make that a wide coalition to show them that, hey, you're with people who like to shoot and who care. it's not just liberal dems. >> i agree. >> that's the key as we go forward. >> the raw story website got ahold of this threatening video from this fellow i mentioned, james yaeger. he's ceo of a group called tactical response, and he's pledging actual violence as a result of the white house action on gun safety. take a listen. >> i'm telling you that if that happens, it's going to spark a civil war, and i'll be glad to fire the first shot. i'm not putting up with it. you shouldn't put up with it, and i need all you patriots to start thinking about what you're going to do, load your damn mags, make sure your rifle is clean, pack a backpack with food in it and get ready to fight. i'm not [ bleep ] putting up with this. i'm not letting my country being

ruled by a dictator. i'm not letting anybody take my guns. if it goes one inch further i'm going to start killing people. >> well, you got that. and the paranoid on the fringe right, it all comes down to being anti-tyranny. here was alex jones talking to piers morgan earlier this week. >> so we did it to point out that this is globalism and the mega banks that control the planet and brag that they take over, bloomberg, ap reuters, you name it, brag they are going to get our guns as well. they have taken everybody's guns but the swiss and the american people and when they get our guns, they can have their world tyranny while the government buys 1.6 billion bullet, armored vehicles, tanks, helicopters, predator drones armed now in u.s. skies, being used to arrest people in north dakota, the second amendment isn't there for duck hunting. it's there to protect us from tyrannical government and street thugs. >> so what do you make of that, joy? >> i mean, this is crazy, chris. i watched that video last night, the yaeger video and watched the

alex jones interview this past week. these are not normal pro second amendment people. this is insanity. these are people who are essentially arming themselves and stockpiling arms. they have more than 50 arms in their house against some sort of tyrannical government invasion of their personal homes. this is basically the paranoiacs in american society being brought forward and being asked to speak for gun owners. it's up to gun owners themselves to distance themselves from this craziness. >> let's keep listening to this. there's one -- i want to get all these in here tonight. ted nugent to world net daily. here's what he said there. will come a time when the law-abiding gun owners of america will be the rosa parks and we'll sit down on the bus, case closed and this morning on cnn, the chair of the gun appreciation day suggested slavery wouldn't have occurred if guns had been available to everyone in america at the time. let's listen to this mularkey. >> i think martin luther king

would agree with me, if he were alive today, that if african-americans had been given the right to keep and bear arms from day one of the country's founding, perhaps slavery might not have been a chapter in our history. >> what a dumb, dumb nut. joy, you've got to respond. this is not a nut but a dumb nut. slaves didn't come to america as citizens, came in shackles, in the bottom of a ship somewhere if they were lucky to be alive when they got here. the idea they would be armed by anyone. he's obviously patternizing here, trying to act like he cares about the fate of black people and some sort of number he was playing here. who would believe this new larky. >> why is it that every time the far right makes an argument that's insane, they jump on the civil rights movement and slavery and try to latch their argument on to the history of african-americans. >> as if they give a damn or be up in front. >> you don't remember ted nugent

standing in front of everyone in the civil rights movement? >> i remember him getting out of going to vietnam and being afraid to carry a gun when his country asked him to carry gun in vietnam. he was a coward, and these guys always jump on slavery and the civil rights movement. if slaves hadn't been owned by other people, there wouldn't have been slavery either. >> this is -- what's happening now is something we've been talking about for five years, and that is the extreme right, let's call it what it is, has gone on about barack obama as a socialist, conspiracy theories about secret plans to take guns and dominate the country, and now because biden comes out and talks about high capacity magazines they say finally, we finally, they have something -- >> nailed him. >> to nail on, and they are -- >> i don't want to make fun of these people because 1% of the country, 5% or 10%. >> they are also dangerous because they are armed. >> that is a problem. remember where i get that phrase we're going to the nut country. that's what john kennedy said the day he died.

yesterday rubbing limbaugh said the president cannot be stopped to getting what he wants. you don't think this is going to the mainstream of the right. here's rush. let's listen. >> you know, obama will try anything and has, and nobody stops him, by the way. he has trumped the constitution's first amendment and religious liberty. he has trumped the constitution on immigration. he essentially granted amnesty to a million kids without benefit of legislation. he'll do anything that nobody tries to stop him from doing. of course an executive legally doesn't trump the constitution, but if he issues an executive order to try to confiscate guns or something along those lines and nobody stops him, does he not get away with it? >> here's the point. rush has a brain. he's a smart guy. he's a marketer and knows what he's doing. in many ways he's a showman, but

how can he honestly believe that a president can issue an executive order confiscating guns? >> to be extreme in reaction to this extremism, i can hear less smart people -- i can imagine them listening to this and thinking there is only one way to stop this guy. >> david corn, joy reid, thanks for joining us. have a nice week. coming up, reality check. gun control advocates say this is the moment to pass new legislation and the gun control crowd says there's no way they will accept an assault weapons ban and president obama made it clear today the united states is accelerating its withdrawal from afghanistan and plans to leave very few troops there after next year this. much is clear. gone is the goal of nation-building and u.s. congressman phil gingrey felt two so-called rape candidates in the republican party wasn't enough. he's just come out defending aiken's legitimate rape comments and once again republicans keep it up and the story that's the

star of hollywood, it's right here in the nation's capital. this is "hardball," a place for politics. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ i am pink and i am a covergirl. ♪ i honestly loved smoking, and i honestly didn't think i would ever quit. [ male announcer ] along with support, chantix is proven to help people quit smoking. it reduces the urge to smoke. it put me at ease that you could smoke on the first week. [ male announcer ] some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix.

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inc. okay welcome back to "hardball." as vice president biden wraps up his week of meetings with stakeholders in the gun debate, outlines of biden's task force proposals are beginning to take shape. universe background checks for gun purchasers. limits on ammunition. stronger mental health checks for gun buyers and even a report in today's "washington post" that senator barbara boxer presented a plan to the vice president to make federal funds available for schools that do want to hire police officers. next, it will be president obama's turn to act on the recommendations of biden's task force. is the time now for big change including a reinstatement of the

assault weapons ban? joining me is paul hemky former president of the brady campaign to prevent gun violence and eugene robinson. how far do you see how far vice president task force will go and how far the president will go? >> i doubt they will go as far as i would like. i think they should deal with a comprehensive plan, deal with background checks and deal with military-style weapons and deal with trafficking and deal with special protections the gun industry gets now and put all those trigger locks and all those things in a comprehensive bill. tough to get through. the problem with doing a single bill by single bill, everyone says that wouldn't stop that shooting or stop this shooting. if you've got a comprehensive bill, and then you've got to negotiate to keep the high

capacity ammunition magazines and give up some of the military-style weapons then you've got trade-offs you can make. put everything on the table. i think biden -- vice president biden needs to do that. the president needs to do the same thing. the nra and their folks will fight everything tooth-and-nail so let's put the whole program out there, if we can. >> do you think we can get something more liberal out of a judiciary committee. i don't know which republican-dominated committee in the house is going to do this. let me go to gene robinson. >> i'm not sure which committee is going to pass this out of the house either. that's a problem. you know, you can look at it from the start. i understand the point about a comprehensive bill, but you might actually be able to get bills with this piece or that piece out of committee, and maybe that would be easier than -- >> who is going to ramrod it for you, paul in the pro gun safety or gun control people, who is going to ramrod it in the house? you've got to get particular here with me. i want to know.

john dingell won't be there. a lot of guys in the congress are not anti-gun in any way. bobby casey is not going to be there. i don't think joe manchin will be there despite his conversations s.schumer going to do it and if it's a big city guy you can kill the bill right up front? who is going to be the country boy or country woman who says this is going to be reasonable and let's have a majority vote for it? >> you're right. the crucial thing, particularly in the senate, we need some republicans or non-of the traditional characters. schumer and feinstein, boxer, you know, those folks are going to be there. we need mark kirk in illinois to make this an issue. he voted for closing the gun show loophole and he's in the house. we need dan coates back in the senate from indiana. if we can get a few of those republicans to stand up and say, hey, this isn't taking your guns away. this isn't a second amendment issue. this is a public safety issue, a law and order issue that will help our communities, then i think we can get it done. >> will you get any votes in the

south? any votes in the south, any votes in the rocky mountain states, any votes out there in conservative country, utah, montana, idaho? >> yeah. we can get some in the rocky mountain states, can get some of the folks in colorado. we can get bennett, we can get udall perhaps. those are folks that in the past have been supportive. the one i would really like to see is mark begich out of alaska. he hasn't talked about this since being in the senate but those people because of what they have done in the past might be responsive now. >> nra president david keane said the congress would not back the gun ban. >> we have a profound disagreement on this administration first of all on what would make a difference. we don't think a ban on so-called assault weapons which hasn't worked in the past will work this time. >> do you have the support in

congress to block any federal ban on assault weapons in the coming year? >> i do not think that there's going to be a ban on so-called assault weapons passed by the congress. >> gee, can we go that far? did it back in the 509s? >> that's obviously the highest hurdle. that's the toughest thing to get through, and i -- my concern from the point of view of someone who would like to see legislation passed is that if that is the center piece of a big piece of legislation it begins easier to kill basically. >> yeah. >> and if -- perhaps if you've got background checks and big magazines which, you know, is a red flag for some people but not for -- perhaps not for everybody, and also you could vote on the assault weapons ban. that goes down, maybe some of the other stuff -- >> how do you do this, paul? you seem to know how to do this. tactically, people who want to see gun control safety, the

magazines, the 30-round things. people with a criminal record, maybe mental emotional problems. is there background check, most people would agree keep guns away from scary people, criminals and people with mental and emotional people. is there a list, police officers have access to those but what about the mental and emotional problems of people that lead to the spree shootings in most cases? >> three basic things we need to do to strengthen the background system. look at the definitions. need stronger definitions of drug abusers, need a better definition of who is mentally dangerous, and i don't think that should be that hard to do. a lot of folks have worked on that issue before. >> would the aclu permit that, the liberal groups, the civil liberties people let you get a list out there? >> i think they would if you draw it the right way. right now with regard to the mentally dangerous, it's based on a court finding that someone is a danger to themselves or

others. i think there's perhaps some other things that you can add to that if there's protections built in. number two, make sure that the states are getting those records into the federal system. that the problem at virginia tech. virginia tech shooter had been found to be a danger to himself or others and virginia had not sent the record in. got a bill passed after virginia tech that george w. bush signed and we need to get more records into the system and the third is the crucial thing. do a background check on every sale. if we've agreed that felons shouldn't get guns, dangerous and mentally ill shouldn't get guns, got the records and they are in the system, if we don't do a background check on 40% of the sales, then you're leaving the system wide open. i think everybody can agree with that. >> sounds good. you know your stuff. >> i just want to put out. >> it's a three-part thing. >> point out one thing, very wise man vernon jordan once told me you don't ask for nothing, you don't get nothing. this is the point we can't stop pulling back saying we can't get

this and can't get that. this is the point where people want responsible gun ownership need to push forward. >> up next, republicans can't get out of their own way. georgia congressman fill gingrey, the guy who had to apologize to rush limbaugh, remember that, is defending todd aiken's legitimate rape comments. wait until you see this one coming up. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

back to "hardball." now the sideshow. is another republican really wading into todd akin legitimate rape territory? believe it. enter phil gingrey of georgia. at an event yesterday he provided some delayed backup for todd akin. >> what he meant by legitimate

rape was just look, someone can say i was raped. you know, a scared-to-death 15-year-old that becomes impregnated by a boyfriend and then has to tell her parents, you know, that's pretty tough, and might on some occasion say, hey, i was raped. that's when he meant when he said legitimate rape verse why is non-legitimate rape. i don't find anything so horrible about that, but then he went on and said that in a situation of rape, of a legitimate rape, a woman's body has a way of shutting down so that pregnancy would not occur. he's partly right on that. i'm an ob gosh gyn doctor. i've been an ob-gyn doctor for a long time, since 1975, and i've delivered lots of babies and i know about these things. >> well, remember when alec baldwin said that you know your

party is in trouble when people ask did the rape guy win and you have to ask which one? we're going to add gingrey to the list of possibility and finally the late night comedians weigh in on jack lew getting nominated as secretary of treasury, mostly his signature. >> there are big problems with this guy. >> many republicans don't get along with this guy. they don't agree with his philosophy and think he's hard to deal with in the negotiations. >> no, no, no, jimmy, none of that, no, jimmy, no. no, i'm talking about the big problem. >> there is jack lew's signature. we could have a pretty ugly signature on our dollar bill. >> our money should have nothing ridiculous on it. just old men in wigs and pyramids with eyes. i mean, is this even a signature, or did he start drawing charlie brown and give up after the hair? >> hey, lew, here's a tip. stop signing all your name on the tea cup wide at disney

world. the only way that you're allowed to have that as a signature is if your name is boing. >> that's "hardball" for now. coming up next, "your business" with j.j. ramberg. with up to 12 hours of protection for our driest, best fitting diaper pampers. office superstore ink retailer in america. now get $6 back in staples rewards

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