who is not a left leaning hollywood liberal. again, no offense. >> and this word hollywood with ashley judd is not going to hurt her. that's why they know her name. >> they know that, they're going to hear her out. there's no doubt she has repellant around her that helps deal a blow to the main thing here. the o'connell camp says we're not worried about this at all. not on the numbers but the fact that major republican players here are running ads just shows how worried they already are. >> there's no incumbent in the world who isn't worried when they're at 47 and they are panicked when there's an unannounced challenger at 43. >> yeah. the other part for karl rove is is it good for him to have people like news the media talking about anything but his competence. the competence problem, the

wasted money you showed, the low record of victories they have, that's what we should also be talking, about not just a fact that he's got a problem with the tea party. >> hey, since i asked you to like us on facebook, we've actually gotten another thousand likes on facebook. ari, were you are one of those thousands? >> i am preone of those thousands. >> hey, like us on facebook. like as you lot. keep liking us. >> war on drones, let's play "hardball." >> good evening, just a day before the president's chief counter terrorism advisor, john brennan heads to capital hill for his hearing to take over the

c.i. averment. the white house has to answer some tough questions about its overseas drone program. the catalyst is a white house memo obtained that justifies american citizens. civil liberties advocates and senator ron widen tweeted today every american has the right to know that their government believes they're allowed to kill them. most americans seem to casually accept this. david corn is washington bureau chief for mother jones. both are msnbc political analysts. jebtle men, let's look here at carney. there was a briefing today and carney defended the president's position on drones. >> i won't talk about specific instances, but the fact is the

methods that we use are designed specifically to avoid civilian casualties. i think it's fair to say that far fewer civilians lose their lives in an effort to go after senior leadership as opposed to an effort to lead a country with hundreds of thou sants of troops. >> why are you dancing around the question of whether or not we kill civilians. >> i don't think that i'm dancing around it. i just didn't dispute it. so they've been killed, right? >> i don't gis disagree with that. what are they saying about why we have to use drones? >> people ought to be asking questions. this is a change. this is the way it is now and not the way it used to be.

they say, look, we have to do counter terrorism. we didn't ask to, but we have to. we've come very close to some serious attacks and the capableties of drones now are such that this is our best weapon. so they think they absolutely have to use drones. but there's a lot of questions that have to be asked. one of them is should there be some sort of judicial oversight or something? >> but doesn't it just take it to the same individual and that person would have to be appointed, as well. >> well, when we're talking about a u.s. citizen, i think it's not unreasonable to say, and it would be my opinion that there aulgt to be another set of eyes on it.

>> we find out that somewhere in yemen or somewhere in saudi, somewhere in pakistan, we understand that there's an activity that's basically a group of people putting together a plan to attack us. we have three ways to stop that. we can use the drones, we can use the seal attack. or we can invade the country and go to war. it seems to me you've got to make a judgment. i don't know anybody of any persuasion that down the road will be able to stand up and say i knew we had the enemy attacking us. i knew they were planning stuff. i knew who they were. so in the end, you have to choose. you have to choose something to do. >> this week, particularly, we're rolling a couple of issues together. there's an issue of whether you can use the drone to attack an american civilian. that's what the memo was all about yesterday.

i thought the memo did not make a strong enough case. as long as there's one informed high level official, that's not good enough. >> do we have the right to kill someone who's a turncoat against their country? >> i think if you find a terrorist group that is, indeed, active, yes. i believe it's a pretty high standard. not just the propagandas, but someone who is involved in some operational way. >> so if they're putting out anti-american attitudes, you can't kill them. on the issue of principle, did we have the right to kill benedict around? >> yeah, sure. very active.

high-ranking in al chi da. and we killed him with a drone. and so i shed no tears for him. and i think nobody else does. but what does bother me a bit, though, is that there's no structure. there's no process. >> so what abuse are you concerned about? let's say it's a murky case. it's a cleric -- just the prop began thats. just the tokyo rose type. >> you can have the highest regard with president obama and john brennan. you can realize they're only going to be there for three more years. this is the way warfare is going to be. this is a weapon. this is a flexible, very useful, valuable weapon.

>> what's wrong with sticking the judgment of people around obama and not trusting the judgment of the value of people around dick cheney? >> if you give the power to this president, then you can expect the next president to have similar powers. i commend everybody with the yugs of drones and attacking not american. >> what's the difference between an american drone attack and a seal attack? are there less collateral damage? >> if you read the new york times this morning, it talks about instances. >> so what do you do?

>> if you come -- what do you do? ? >> well, perhaps, in some cases, you have to put more of your own blood at risk. >> you're sitting here. what would you do if you're a president or commander in chief or your general for example, and we send in 20 guys, we're going to lose five or ten. the drones for days above them. and they see them as signals and messages of america power or arrogance and they realize that they're going to come down and strike somebody there. and it may hit them as well. and that has a real potential -- >> where is that happening right now? >> in yemen. you've got to weigh those things in. >> gene? >> i'm somewhat less concerned about what has happened today

than what's going to happen in the future. and i really think that's -- so my issue is not so much that the decision was made to go after awlaki. >> what should be the protocol? >> i think what they do is fine but there should be something like the fisa court that can -- look. as a practical matter, it's going to rubber stamp most of what the white house wants to do. >> and this would be like going to a judge for a warrant. >> right. there can be an outlier. there can be a case in which -- >> the interesting thing -- >> a dispassionate observer decides, you know, this is not fairly right. this is too close a call. and i would like --

>> you would like to have a dialogue where someone says are you sure there's an actual terrorist plot here? your intelligence could be your standard? >> there's a whole conversation about imminence and what does imminence mean. and i get imminence doesn't mean the hijackers are boarding the planes. it's way ahead of that. but there's -- >> there's a benefit to having a fisa court too. i know people that worked on the fisa court. it makes the people coming to the court -- this is when you get wiretaps. it makes them do their job better. they have to meet certain standards. >> i like this. we're raising a lot of questions here. one is is there a terrorist attack at foot? is there an american involved? and how do you trade off civilian casualties, collateral damage if you want to call it that, and american casualties? mike rogers chair of the house

intelligence committee defended the president today and he's a republican. he said that anwar al awlaki deserved to be killed. and he countered the criticism that there's no oversight of the program. let's listen to him. >> this is somebody who had said that he didn't want his u.s. citizenship anymore. he had officially joined al qaeda. al qaeda he did claired war on the united states. once you made that choice, you no longer get the protections you would. if you've joined the enemy overseas, you've joined the enemy overseas and we're going to fight them. we have oversight into it. i knew about the operations. the targeting sets all of that leading up to it including very shortly thereafter. and i review all of the air strikes that we use under this title of the law. >> well, that's a good interview for andrea to get that guy. he says once the guy's turned and it's manifestly so, it's easier for us.

it's easier for us. >> it is. but it's not just about policy. it is about procedures. and so the memo yesterday had a lot of troubling aspects to it. as we talked about yesterday throughout the network. and so if you want to do these things and if you could make a good argument, then you should have a good procedure that reinforces that so there is some what of a semblance -- >> tomorrow john brennan, will he hit on this tomorrow? >> you'll hear a lot about this on the hearings. i don't think he'll get beat up that much. but people will ask questions they ought to ask. he has talked about this to the extent he can. >> there's one big issue described by people in the white house. >> i'd trust you running a fisa court. i would. i'm not sure just some judge doing family court -- i want to know the person that has sensitivity about what america needs for its defense and what we need to protect our constitution. both. >> it's just having an unbudsman

type person overseeing this saying bring me better intelligence, let's double check. and in some administrations you can trust that perhaps more than in others. so it's good to have an independent look.

>> that's republican paul broun. good luck, republicans, with that rebranding. and don't miss the rick perry, jerry broun smackdown. two governors who have very little use for each other. this is "hardball," the place for politics. she knows you like no one else. and you wouldn't have it any other way. but your erectile dysfunction - you know, that could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet approved to treat ed and symptoms of bph, like needing to go frequently or urgently. tell your doctor about all your medical conditions and medications, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sexual activity. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess with cialis. side effects may include headache, upset stomach, delayed backache or muscle ache. to avoid long-term injury, seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have any sudden decrease or loss in hearing or vision, or if you have any allergic reactions such as rash, hives, swelling of the lips,

tongue or throat, or difficulty breathing or swallowing, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis for daily use and a 30-tablet free trial. if the post sal service gets its way, it won't be getting mail to you on saturday anymore. the postmaster general made the announcement today. it's expected to save $2 billion a year. but the decision has touched off a fight in congress as well it should. republicans want to cut costs but democrats worry the jobs will be slashed. if the plan goes forward, saturday delivery will end this august. we'll be right back. ♪ [ female announcer ] for everything your face has to face.

face it with puffs ultra soft & strong. puffs has soft, air-fluffed pillows for 40% more cushiony thickness. face every day with puffs softness. ♪ i don't wanna be right [ record scratch ] what?! it's not bad for you. it just tastes that way. [ female announcer ] honey nut cheerios cereal -- heart-healthy, whole grain oats. you can't go wrong loving it.

welcome back to "hardball." in football they call it a rebuilding year. it's when the coaches and school fathers know they have graduated too many seniors and have too many untested freshmen on the return team. could we say the post-mitt romney republicans are in the

same boat? they're not expected to win soon especially if hillary runs but do need a rebuild their party for the long hall. it's thought if they don't clean up their image they're headed for years of defeat in elections. look at the proposals we're seeing now. karl rove wants to keep the fringies. and things like clinton did with school uniforms. and tell college students the jobs might be tough. what about the gun issue? should the republicans stick with the nra or tell wayne lapierre to get a real job? how could a party built other the decades on the people who left the democrats abandon those issues that attracted the rule south and the west people and the miners and the ranchers and the gun owners. and the people furious about immigration. how do you ban those people and keep a party? tonight an expert, a passionate believer that politics can get better. my colleague joe scarborough. here's the question.

how do you keep this huge tent the republican party has built in the last 30 or 40 years with people from the south, the west, the miners, the ranchers, the religious right, all those people that have decided the republican party is their natural home and yet you have people in the fringe costing you your image. >> well, you've got to stand up to people on the fringe. you know, when parties go extreme they get roundly defeated. it happened to democrats in 1984. it happened to the republican neocons on 2006. it happened in the off-year elections back in 2010. americans thought democrats went too far to the left, and they punished them and to almost historic proportions in that election. but 2012, republicans got punished because they were the party of todd akin instead of the party of colin powell. they were the party of richard mourdock instead of the party of george h.w. bush. he wanted nothing to do with

except that a guy like powell is necessary if you're going have two wings. chris, we've lost five out of the last six popular votes in presidential races. and a lot of the reason why is because we've had a lot of discord voices to the extreme that first left the democratic party because they became too extreme starting in 1968. >> let's talk about the leadership issue. let's take something like the gun issue. i think the gun issue is very tough. i am despondent to the point of believing there are so many guns in existence right now, i don't know how you stop the water fall that's been going on for generations. wayne lapierre, he took some heat on fox news over the web video that mentioned the president's daughter. listen to this. i think some people are going to say wayne lapierre still has the hammer lock on people from

pennsylvania, indiana, ohio. right across the country to the far west except maybe california and new york and connecticut. you don't want to go to the war with the nra. what do you make of that? should they stay arm in arm with the nra? go on semiautomatics but maybe challenge them on background checks? where do you draw the line on the right there? >> well, there's some things the republicans have to do if they want to play smart. they're going to have to go after gun trafficking. there's a good bipartisan bill on the house floor. and republicans need to get on board on that or they're going to be punished even to the off-year elections. they need to get on board with universal registration. wayne lapierre agreed with that in 1999. and many agree with that. >> on background checks. >> yes. universal background checks. >> not registration. you'll pay for that tomorrow morning. >> i'm actually paying for it right now.

no. it was -- but universal background checks is something that 91% of americans support. it's something the republicans need to embrace. and if the republicans do just those two things, they can say they're responding not only to what's happening in sandy hook but what's happening in chicago every night, what's happening across america every night. >> let me try this. it seems the two party played roles. it's not the mommy and daddy party. the fact that republicans were good on national defense and law and order and capital punishment, all the tough guy stuff. it seems the two parties still have advantages in what they can do that the other can't do. can the republican party put teeth in an immigration reform bill? you really will have guest workers. you will have the parts that work economically and will give

some enforcement power to it. not just the nice stuff of letting people become citizens over time. why don't the two parties put -- the republicans put the teeth in, the democrats put the bennys in it. >> it makes sense, doesn't it? you can say the same thing about entitlement reform, national defense. there are things the republican party can do to differentiate themselves from the democratic party, but we're not going to win elections if we continue to be like i said before, the party of todd akin or richard mourdock. >> is karl rove right? you have to be gate keepers, people like party chairs, big fund raisers. >> of course. of course they are. but i don't know that karl rove after his performance in 2012 should be the gate keeper. he was inside the bubble as much as anybody else so much so that he melted down on election night. you know, it was almost like trying to get james brown off the stage. you had to keep going out there saying it's over. it's over. >> into a superstar. that's all i know.

that was one night she won the battle. >> she won the battle there. but you need somebody like haley barbour who understands in '93 and '94 had to rebuild the party. haley barbour who would come on our show with other people wouldn't embrace olympia snow. even on jim jeffert's most liberal day -- it's pretty simple. we got to do what we do in alabama when it comes to football. we've got to realize it's about winning. this electoral process, it's not a primal screen therapy. it's not about screaming and yelling and talk about all of your resentments and feeling good about yourself. it's about what i say every day on the show. not just winning in northwest florida but winning the suburbs of philadelphia. how do you do that? you don't do that by defending the survivalist wing of the nra.

you don't do that by debating contraception which was taken care of by the court in '65. you don't do that by obsessing on small ball. you do it be focusing on winning. only people like haley barbour it seems in this republican party lately have figured out how to do that. we've lost five of the six last elections when it comes to poplar vote. it's well past time for us to get our act together and start obsessing over winning elections again. >> read all the books you can on wendell wilke. he's you. who i think define what is you just talked about. a reasonable man who said hitler's our enemy. get ready to fight him. no messing around. thank you. >> right. thank you, chris. >> tomorrow morning you start at 6:00 eastern for three big hours of "morning joe." up next, a little spat between the governors of the two biggest states. this is "hardball," the place

for politics. [ female announcer ] going to sleep may be easy, but when you wake up in the middle of the night it can be frustrating. it's hard to turn off and go back to sleep. intermezzo is the first and only prescription sleep aid approved for use as needed in the middle of the night when you can't get back to sleep. it's an effective sleep medicine you don't take before bedtime. take it in bed only when you need it and have at least four hours left for sleep. do not take intermezzo if you have had an allergic reaction to drugs containing zolpidem, such as ambien. allergic reactions such as shortness of breath or swelling of your tongue or throat may occur and may be fatal. intermezzo should not be taken if you have taken another sleep medicine at bedtime or in the middle of the night or drank alcohol that day. do not drive or operate machinery until at least 4 hours after taking intermezzo and you're fully awake. driving, eating, or engaging in other activities while not fully awake without remembering the event the next day have been reported.

abnormal behaviors may include aggressiveness, agitation, hallucinations, or confusion. alcohol or taking other medicines that make you sleepy may increase these risks. in depressed patients, worsening of depression, including risk of suicide, may occur. intermezzo, like most sleep medicines, has some risk of dependency. common side effects are headache, nausea, and fatigue. so if you suffer from middle-of-the-night insomnia, ask your doctor about intermezzo and return to sleep again. ♪

back to "hardball." governor's spat featuring the two big ones. texas and california. started when rick perry released a radio ad trying to lure california business owners to texas.

>> building a business is tough, but i hear building a business in california is next to impossible. this is texas governor rick perry, and i have a message for california businesses. come check out texas. >> well, jerry brown, the governor of california, dubbed perry's $24,000 tv ad the smallest entry into the media market of california. i think it is. he also said this. >> it's not a burp. it's barely a fart. >> thank you. >> his word, not mine. it's not the first time jerry brown has taken it from a new kid on the block. last year chris christie told voters they picked a retread in brown. >> not as much hair. i've slowed down a bit but i ran three miles in 29 minutes two nights ago. i hereby challenge governor christie to a three mile race,

push-up contest, and a chin-up contest. i have no doubt of the outcome. >> well, next. ready to meet the assemblyman who missed the memo on how not to speak about gun control. while americans are entitled to have strong opinions, there is also language that is inappropriate in any discussion. the supporters of gun control are doing something akin to what hitler's germany did to strip citizens of guns in the run-up to the second world war. here's steve mclaughlin yesterday frustrated with how quickly the gun control bill was passed. >> we're told to shut up and vote. that's what this is about. don't question it. just vote. that's the message here. hitler would be proud. mussolini would be proud of what

we did here. but that's not democracy. >> there you have it. a few hours later he released a video apology calling his statement an honest mistake. finally, republicans refusing to attend president obama's state of the union address georgia congressman paul broun for example typically stays in his office hooked to his twitter account. where will steve pierce be during the address? his announcement yesterday, public hearing on the chicken is the same day of the state of the union. pearce will be attending a meeting on a chicken to the endangered species list. and their top staffers would rather forget. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. ♪

welcome back to "hardball." we may have just seen president obama inaugurated a second time. here at "hardball" we're reminiscing about the 2012

election campaign whether it was the carpet bombing of newt gingrich and the iowa airwaves or romney's 47% comments i think cost him the election. or the debate that didn't cost president obama the election. our own chuck todd got the inside scoop from campaign operatives of both sides who shared the uh-oh moments. they had a different word for it. let's start with the republican primaries. top romney advisers described the points at which they thought uh-oh. here it is. >> the oh s moment for my was south carolina. it put newt in the drivers seat for a period of time and forced us to go into florida. >> there were some big states that cost a lot of money to put up on tv. there were moments in the campaign where we took our bank down close to zero. >> the night that we lost denver or colorado, minnesota, and missouri.

because it was just totally oh s. another month of this really? >> losing michigan would not have been a positive experience. we went into an expensive state. and it was a state that had a lot of symbolic ghosts. and it was really hand to hand. >> here we are to walk down memory lane with us joan walsh. salon's editor at large. and msnbc political analyst michael crowley. let's go to joan. this is joy through others' tragedy. everybody loves that. here you have a butterfly collection. flattened out butterflies of things that went wrong. i have to be reminded here the first sign that romney wasn't such a great candidate for president was he was losing consistency to people like newt gingrich and rick santorum who know one would have ever thought of running for president.

and still could never get into their heads they could imagine them as president. yet republican primary and caucus voters were choosing them rather than this good looking guy with credentials. something must have been wrong with him. >> right. watching his advisers it's like they never registered that. like you said they carpet bombed newt. the fact that newt came back and hit them hard. >> like freddy krueger. >> right. came back like freddy krueger like he always does seemingly. but newt and rick perry did unveil the bain attacks. they did romney's work on one hand, but there was a way to say perry and gingrich isn't going to win. but they are both revealing something disturbing about your candidate and we better get a story ready. we better figure out how to counter that. they never figured out how to counter it until election day. >> one winning strategy for the

obama campaign, an uh-oh moment for team romney was to define romney early when he was in primary mode. while the romney campaign was raising tons of cash in the late spring and early summer, they were legally barred from using it until the general elections. obama going after romney, romney unable to respond because of election law. >> during this period we were raising a lot of money, but it wasn't all money that we could immediately send out the door. >> the donors would call saying why aren't you on tv? i was saying let me explain what money we can use. very frustrating to us. >> one of the biggest decisions we made was to bet on the front end of the campaign. in the month of october, ads mean much less because there's so much coverage. debates are so dominant. and that we had an imperative which was to define the race and frankly to define mitt romney before the conventions. and that, you know, it was better to -- it was a hilarious

proposition to bet on a -- take money out of september and october, put it into may, june, and july. so the other big thing that happened in june was we started running ads about mitt romney. >> so one thing, michael, it's one thing to say you spent a lot of money and time in the beginning defining he was a rich guy not caring about people. then to come along completing the alley-oop with the 47% comment. >> he said too much has been made of the idea that the obama campaign was hitting rearview mirror in the spring and summer. that the numbers were actually pretty stable. but i think what they did was they kind of set up as you say, they kind of dug a trap that he ended up walking into. so did they decide the race? did they crush and destroy romney in that interregnum before he was able to spend his

own money because of campaign finance restrictions? no. they didn't completely destroy him. what they did was they set him up. >> the alley-oop play. that's when one of the players throws the ball up high over the net and the tall guy at the post, he jumps up in the air and stuffs that baby down and makes sure everybody sees. it's great. who can forget that first debate? that's one you and i can't forget in denver, joan. he stunned his supporters and gave me a disaster in my brain. let's look at mitt romney. he might have made a lot of obama supporters say uh-oh. it didn't hurt his poll numbers though according to jim messina. the first debate apparently didn't register heavily in the polling. let's take a look. >> it changed the structure of the race. and we saw that our polling. people who may have closed their mind to governor romney suddenly reopened it.

and it made for a much better october than september. because in september we were dealing with the fallout. from the 47% video. >> what we saw in our internal numbers was they got back what they lost from the 47%. we never went behind. we never went down less than -- never went -- our lead never shrunk less than two and a half points. we were pretty sure we were okay the entire time. >> joan and michael, it's a key question. i didn't know this. i thought obama had dropped below after that bad performance. is that your reading? he never really lost the lead even though he had a bomb of a night in denver? >> i'm not going to call john a liar. the polls i looked at it in the swing states, he did fall behind. when you're within the margin of error, you have a lot of anxious people. i think lots of national democrats and local democrats are going to say we probably spent a lot of money and a lot of energy that we would have spent on, you know, house races

or senate races. he took a beating in the polls. maybe didn't fall under. >> but i think he's wrong and you're right. i'm right. i think it almost killed him. one more night like that, he would have lost the race. thank you michael crowley from time magazine and joan walsh from salon. turning to the far right to find candidates for the senate. this time it's paul broun the guy who called evolution a lie from the pit of hell. he's running in georgia, probably win down there. that's good for the ds. this is "hardball," the place for politics. [ man ] ring ring... progresso this reduced sodium soup says it may help lower cholesterol, how does it work? you just have to eat it as part of your heart healthy diet. step 1. eat the soup. all those veggies and beans, that's what may help lower your cholesterol and -- well that's easy [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup.

or treat gas with these after you get it. now that's like sunblock before or sun burn cream later.

oh, somebody out there's saying, now i get it! take beano before and there'll be no gas. president obama's adding a woman to his cabinet. the president today nominated sally jewel to head the interior department. joule is ceo of sports retailer rei which she's earned recognition for her management skills and her work in habitat conservation. we'll be right back.

we're back. if you want to appreciate how big a challenge the would be mrebranders of the republican party face, consider this.

the fringies, the characters who live in the fever swamps of birtherisms who claim president obama isn't an american, isn't a christian, who say global warming is a hoax and talk about legitimate rape. these people with the base of the republican party. one is paul broun, he's a republican from georgia who's decided now to run for the u.s. senate from that state. that's a gift many people believe to democrats. his extreme right wing views might give them, the democrats, a real chance to win a seat in a red georgia. joining me now is the genius and co-creator of "the daily show" lizz winstead and laura ashburn. i'd like both of you to listen to some of paul broun's greatest hits then i want your reaction. let's listen. >> obama himself has zero experience in private sector. he's never had a private job. he's always worked in the public sector. he thinks government needs to produce everything. government needs to control everything. there's a word for that. socialism. he's a marxist.

fellow patriots, we have a lot of domestic enemies of the constitution and they're right down the mall in the congress of the united states. and right down independence avenue in the white house of the -- that belongs to us. come to understand all that stuff i was taught about evolution and embryology and big bang theory, all that is lies straight from the pit of hell. and it's lies to try to keep me and all the folks who were taught that from understanding that they need a savior. it's not about my ability to hunt, which i love to do. it's not about the ability for me to protect my family, my property against criminals. which we have the right to do. but it's about -- it's all about us protecting ourselves from a tyrannical government of the united states.

>> well, the challenge for the creative people and i was just talking to joe scarborough, it's a challenge. how do you look at the people way out there that don't feel confident in the democratic party and now the republican. you can't run these people because you're nuts. >> right. >> i don't think people want to vote for a party that wouldn't accept them as candidates. just get an old groucho marx line. >> if the republicans are going to start talking about their >> if the republicans are going to start talking about, you know, their party evolving, the basic start would be to believe in evolution. so when you don't -- >> i think you're picking a point here. >> but with this one saying evolution starts in the pits of hell. he has had four wives. he is on wife number four. >> many families. he has a lot of them. >> many, many families. and i just -- i don't understand. it's like the tone deafness.

if you say you're going to reinvent your party. >> who is he talking to? he is talking to somebody in that church tent, because there are people applauding him. you can't say they don't exist. >> that's exactly right there. are people who like this. there are people, paleo conservatives, people who are principled, people who believe that this person is the person to be the face of the republican party. and then they have the karl roves, the inside the beltway guys who are trying to bring to it the middle who just don't understand. >> i don't know about that. when you look -- i'm from minnesota. >> minnesota. >> oh, sure i am. and you have bachmann, you have him and steve king in iowa. >> we got a bite of steve here we should show, because he is right up there in this menagerie with paul broun. of course, broun isn't alone. here he is, steve king. >> we have a very, very urban center barack obama who has decided he is going to run for president. we've got to stand up at some point and say we are not going

to pay slavery reparations in the united states congress. that war has been fought. that was over a century ago. government can sit down and decide to pay reparations with money borrowed from the chinese. >> you know, i got to tell you. i'm sort of a thaddeus stevens kind of guy with reparations. i think we should have done it with 30 acres and a mule back in the 1860s. but i haven't heard that issue raised. who is he arguing? >> there are 15 bills right now before congress that are reparation bills where. have you been? >> there is no money to give out. >> but people are still on it. i did a story about how aetna, people were after aetna to make reparations. i mean this is still in the news. >> i think this guy steve king is fighting an old horse here. >> but -- >> riding an old horse. >> but they have to get out of the bubble of their districts and they start running statewide, you cannot tell me that's not true. >> in iowa, king is up. king is up in iowa. >> let me ask you a simple question. you're smart. you're karl rove. not a good guy necessarily, but a smart guy.

you're haley barbour. you're chris christie, one of these thoughtful people in the republican party you can argue. how are you going to stop these people from running if fay want to? >> cash. >> how do you stop them if they have money behind them? >> money talks, right? if you don't want this guy to win and you've got the koch brothers and you have adelson there, that's why they have a pac, right? >> that worked well for romney. here is the deal money can't buy you, authenticity. >> they're authentic, i hate to tell you. they're the real thing. >> they're authentic to the point where -- if you're authentic in your irrationality, great. you'll appeal to the irrational people. but when this guy says the earth was formed -- hold on. when the earth was formed 9,000 years ago and we started farming 10,000 years ago, it's insane. >> we have to come back to the fact that they have a base, that people like this have been elected. >> exactly. they have been. >> you know, i look at mourdock, he won. i like at akin, he won.

i look at o'donnell, she won. that guy mike lee beat bob bennett out in utah. you got -- knocked off a guy in indiana. they go around the country. they tend to win. >> but rove's candidates haven't been doing so well either. >> no. neither have nra candidates. neither have -- neither did adelson's candidates or koch candidates. >> i want two parties in this country where i can actually go into the election and decide who to vote for. >> you want the chris matthews party. >> i want a party where there is reason on both sides. not an echo, i want a choice. and that's why i think the old days republicans running people like eisenhower and reasonable people like that made a lot of sense. and wendell wilkie, guys like that. they were reasonable people. >> be this is a turning point in the republican party. >> lizz winstead, lauren, thank you for coming. when i return, thoughts about my aunt agnes, a wonderful and loving aunt, much looked up to. you're watching "hardball." ♪ ♪ if loving you is wrong

♪ i don't wanna be right [ record scratch ] what?! it's not bad for you. it just tastes that way. [ female announcer ] honey nut cheerios cereal -- heart-healthy, whole grain oats. you can't go wrong loving it. bee happy. bee healthy. with clusters of flakes and o's. oh, ho ho... it's the honey sweetness. i...i mean, you...love.

if your a man with low testosterone, oh, ho ho... it's the honey sweetness. you should know that axiron is here. the only underarm treatment for low t. that's right, the one you apply to the underarm. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18. axiron can transfer to others through direct contact. women, especially those who are or who may become pregnant, and children should avoid contact where axiron is applied as unexpected signs of puberty in children or changes in body hair or increased acne in women may occur. report these signs and symptoms to your doctor if they occur. tell your doctor about all medical conditions and medications. do not use if you have prostate or breast cancer.

serious side effects could include increased risk of prostate cancer; worsening prostate symptoms; decreased sperm count; ankle, feet, or body swelling; enlarged or painful breasts; problems breathing while sleeping; and blood clots in the legs. common side effects include skin redness or irritation where applied, increased red blood cell count, headache, diarrhea, vomiting, and increase in psa. see your doctor, and for a 30-day free trial, go to axiron.com.

let me finish tonight with this. when my brothers and i were young, we had a young teenaged girl to look up to. our aunt agnes was only a half generation ahead of us, our mom's youngest sister. she still lived with my grandpa and grand 345. she had the front room, where she kept her hockey stick and marble comic books and other girl stuff. we looked up to her as someone really special. she took us to movies and the malt shop. sometimes wo