if he goes out in a blaze of glory, the headlines are in tomorrow's paper and it's over with. if he stands up -- if he wants to stand up and say i'm going to right the wrong that i believe is out there, this is his chance to do it right now. if he's listening, if he's watching, he needs to take that chance otherwise his death will serve no purpose and the people he killed were just terribly innocent victims. >> i'm glad you said that. i hope he heard it. thanks so much, clint van zandt. we're going back now to knbc, our affiliate station in los angeles. >> -- been asked to pull back. all media choppers for that matter have been asked to pull back not only for the sate of the responding officers on the ground who are involved in an active shootout, an active standoff. but also for the safety of those helicopters and the reporters up in the sky as who knows where those bullets could be flying. >> and we had heard as well that

at least 40 s.w.a.t. officers are being mobilized and headed into the area. they may have arrived on scene by now. john is at that road block we're referring to. john, are you there? >> yeah, guys. we're right at the intersection of bryant street and highway 38. you were talking about the s.w.a.t. officers. we saw them load up and head out straight up the mountainside there. a lot of officers that have been standing by here. we showed you live pictures earlier. you saw so many going up there. you also saw as cars were coming down, they're trying to go through each one of those cars, too, to make sure christopher dorner isn't hiding in one of those. some updated information we have. the s.w.a.t. team just went up. we saw an armored vehicle from a different agency. one was on the freeway here. they have headed their way up. we are about ten miles up highway 38, 20 miles south of where all of this is apparently happening. so a lot of activity still here. and you can see the officers that are armed very heavily

stopping any vehicle that comes through making sure that dorner is not in there if they're coming down. and anybody heading up they're stopping here before they let them continue on. some of them turning around to head back down highway 38 -- breaking news tonight out of southern california. i'm al sharpton. police are closing in on christopher dorner, the fugitive ex-los angeles cop sought in three killers. dorner has barricaded himself in this cabin in the san bernardino mountains following a shootout with authorities that wounded two officers. he's been on the run for six days. joining me now is fbi profiler clint van zandt. clint, what can you tell us? >> well, we know that dorner allegedly hid in these mountains. al, he was able to break into a

cabin. he may have held one or two people hostage for an extended period of time. he left that cabin, stole their vehicle, and fled the area supposedly one of the hostages may have been able to dial 911. the authorities saw the vehicle, made some type of stop of the vehicle. a shootout took place with authorities. two officers are shot and down. dorner was able to make his way back to a cabin where he's been barricaded and there are reports of literally hundreds of rounds fired exchanged between dorner and the law enforcement officers that currently surround the cabin. >> clint, we're awaiting a live press conference by the los angeles police department, but let me -- let me kind of recap what you're telling us. we're told that he allegedly did a home invasion on a cabin -- in

a cabin. and took some people hostage allegedly. and at some point, he left, took their car, stole their car, left -- one of them was able to get to 911 and that is how the police were able to intercept him in this stolen car allegedly. is that the story that you've been told? >> that's the story i've been told, al. and what makes this more amazing is that this cabin that he was allegedly holed up in originally from which he stole the vehicle, that was within eyesight of the command post that law enforcement used during their entire search of these mountains. that dorner was able to not only watch what was going on perhaps on television, but he could look out his window and see reporters and law enforcement officers walking back and forth for

multiple days. until today he made this daring one might say attempt at escape. he was confronted. the shootout took place. two officers have been shot and down. he abandoned the vehicle, went back to a cabin. i don't know if -- >> clint, i'm going to have to interrupt you. the news conference by lapd is about to start. let's go live to los angeles. >> i have a very small amount of information i can provide to you. from what's happening up in san bernardino county right now. this information is from the san bernardino county sheriff's office. let me put a caveat on it this is very early preliminary information. about 2:20 p.m. today san bernardino sheriffs were on the lookout for dorner. they received a call on a vehicle in club view drive. they received information from the person reporting that the stolen vehicle was stolen by an individual that appeared to be very similar to christopher dorner.

they immediately conducted a ground and an air search for this vehicle and they were able to locate it at highway 38 and glass road. the suspect in the vehicle fled into the forest. shortly thereafter, this individual barricaded himself in a cabin there and an exchange of gunfire occurred. during that exchange, two officers were injured. they've been air lifted to a local hospital. their condition is unknown. los angeles police department has sent resources out to the san bernardino county airport. our resources are waiting there for authorization from san bernardino county sheriffs to assist them. this is a san bernardino county investigation. we are just in only if asked. that is as much as i have on that particular incident out there. a quick update on how the search is going from our side. right now we have 1,045 clues that our officers are working

on. they're following up on all those clues. obviously some of them are panning out and some are dead ends. but we're continuing to do the search and continuing to work our clues while the events in the san bernardino mountains unfolds. i'll take a couple of questions. >> how sure are they? >> we're not positive. until this guy is in custody, we're not going to know for sure. they said he was similar in appearance. he was up in that area at one time. so the likelihood is that it's him, but we can't say for sure. >> he holed himself in a cabin with hostages for several days. can you confirm that? >> i can't confirm that part. we were listening to our scanner getting most information from the san bernardino sheriffs. i can't confirm anybody was held hostage. that's part of their side. >> commander, what kind of resources are we talking about? do you have s.w.a.t. officers going up there? >> i can't give you specifics

about what resources we have up there. we believe this individual may be watching tv or accessing media, so we don't want to tip what we've been accepteding out there. we also ask the media with air ships in the air. don't show any closeups of our s.w.a.t. officers are doing up in that area. the reason for that is obviously it will put our officers at an extreme tactical disadvantage if the suspect knows what our folks are doing. >> what about exchanging gunfire -- >> i don't know what the involvement of the california fish and game was at this time. my understanding the san bernardino county sheriffs. but i don't have an update from the california fish and game. [ inaudible question ] >> -- now that it looks like he may be caught? >> everyone is hopeful this ends without further blood shed. we hope to take this guy into

custody and he doesn't hurt anybody else. the best thing for him now would be to surrender and allow us to take him into custody and he can face the criminal justice system. there's a tremendous sense of apprehension amongst our officers here. concern about the officers up there. until this guy's in custody, none of the people in our department are going to rest. >> you said you were waiting. whap resources did you send up? >> i can't give specifics on what resources we sent. we sent resources waiting at the airport in san buernardino. right now we haven't been needed. people have been asking if chief of police has gone out there. he has not. he's still here. [ inaudible question ] >> i don't have information about the vehicle the suspect allegedly took. i've seen some videotape from the media members on that vehicle. i don't have the information about what that is. >> if he is watching this, what message do you have for him right now? >> if he's watching this, the

message is enough is enough. it's time to stop the blood shed. it's time to let this event and let this incident be over. >> your first prior to is to take in the live -- >> obviously the prior to is the safety of the community there. i'm sure the sheriffs are evacuating people in that area and making sure all residents are safe. once that area is locked down and all the citizens are safe, then we'll let the s.w.a.t. team go in there and do what they do best which is to get this guy hopefully in custody. hopefully without any further blood shed. one more question then i have to go. [ inaudible question ] >> san bernardino county sheriffs are embedded with a team of officers that are all working together to solve this. they've been there since the beginning. we also sent an assistant chief out there. he's in their command post. we're getting realtime updapts

so we know what's going on up there. probably a very good exchange of information. so we work really well with our law enforcement partners throughout southern california. [ inaudible question ] >> i don't know the weapons he had. i'm not sure what he used in this exchange of gunfire. that's all we have time for right now. if anything breaks on this, we'll be back -- >> that was the commander at the los angeles police department live giving a briefing to press in los angeles. let me go back to clint van zandt who's a former fbi profiler. clint, you heard the commander. not a lot of new information, but that does not mean that's all they know. but that's all they're going to say at this point. >> that's all they're going to say as that police officer suggests, they believe probably last week when he was holed up

in a cabin up on the mountain and right now in the cabin that he may well have access to the media. we know for example that he watches msnbc, so he could be watching this right now. al, just to take a quick one more time. if he, in fact -- you know, he has his allegations of racism against the lapd. >> right. >> he's the one that knows the information. and it would be a loss for him to commit a suicide by cop at this time and die in that hail of bullets. if he wants to get his point across, if he believes he can support his allegations, he should lay his weapons down and have his chance in court to support the allegations that he's made and that he said contributed to the death of three people and now the wounding of three others. >> well, i agree with you,

clint. and there's been a history of problems, tensions, and outright incidents between the lapd and african-americans. i've marched out there, dealt with a lot of it. if, in fact, as this person's manifesto says, his point was he was treated unfairly. or there's racism. or there's some bias involved. clearly none of us condone the killing or the reaction if what has been allegedly put at his doorstep is in fact true. but if that's his point, then that point would be lost if he does not come out alive, surrender, lay out his point, and tell his story. i join you in calling on that and would help facilitate in any way we could in him coming in alive and telling his story if he has a story to tell. if he does not do that, we can only wonder whatever it was or

speculation whether in fact he was using that for other reasons. we don't know. but our appeal if he is watching is whatever happened, he cannot be served unless he comes in to deal with this. the blood shed must stop. let me ask you this, clint. do you believe based on what we've heard and seen so far that this can be resolved in a way toend blood shed. if he's watching, what confidence should he have that he will not be harmed especially when we're being told he has harmed now five people, three of them dead? >> well, one thing, al, is that there are multiple law enforcement agencies on the scene. federal, state, local. so this is not going to be his interpretation perhaps of law enforcement justice where one

agency in his mind the lapd might kill him. there are so many agencies on scene right now that if he chose an agency, say for example, the u.s. marshal service or the fbi and said he would lay down his guns and come out and turn himself over to them for his own safety, that would be arranged. but al, there's been well over 500 shots fired already. he's going to have to quit pulling the trigger and start talking if he wants his story to actually get out. otherwise not only does he die in vain, but all the people that he's alleged to have killed have simply died at the hands of a madman instead of someone who's trying to make in his mind a legitimate point. >> well, let me ask you to hold right there, clint. joining me now is nbc's john yang who is live in los angeles.

john? >> rev, what we can tell you now is they still have christopher dorner, the san bernardino sheriff's office says they have him pinned down in a cabin in the san bernardino mountains near big bear lake. this happened around 3:20 east coast time today when the sheriff's department responded to a call of a home invasion at a cabin. they got there and we were told that a person matching dorner's description had stolen a white pickup truck. an air and ground search began. officers from the california fish and wildlife department, we are told, were the first to spot this pickup truck. there was a confrontation. both the officers and the person believed to be dorner got out of their vehicles, exchanged fire. now, we do know at least two

officers -- we don't know from which jurisdiction -- at least two officers have been wounded. we don't know their conditions. we don't know how badly they were wounded. but this standoff continues in the san bernardino mountains. there has been reports of gunfire between the two, between officers and dorner. he has been holed up in this cabin. presumably he has television, so he can watch what's going on. and as a result we have all been asked to move our helicopters away from this area. in fact, the faa has put in flight restrictions over this area. >> now, let me ask you, john. again, we're not positive that it is, in fact, dorner. we're going by the fact that those in the house and then later police are saying it is a person that looks like dorner. assuming it is dorner, what will happen in this standoff? will they try to make contact with him? will they try to get a

relative -- i understand he has a mother and sister, they might have been estranged. will they try to talk him into a surrender? >> it's not clear yet, but clearly that's what they want. there was just a news briefing in downtown los angeles. >> right. >> a spokesman was asked if he could get a message to dorner what would it be. he said the message is enough is enough. it's time to turn yourself in. it's time to end this bloodshed. they clearly want to end this with dorner turning himself in. they want to end the threat to the lapd officers on his manifesto. they want to end the threat to the public. and they would like to see it end on this mountain in san bernardino county now. >> we went to that press conference live, john. let me ask you this. clint had said when we were talking with him a few minutes ago, if in fact this is dorner and if in fact dorner's point in

his manifesto was that he was dealing with being treated in an unjust matter and that others have been, it would serve no purpose if he's listening for him not to surrender and for him to be harmed or killed because then we would never have his story or his side or his version of what happened. wouldn't it serve his interests if in fact his interests are what he claims them to be if he would surrender? >> and in fact, this weekend chief charlie beck of the lapd says he is reopening the case that led to dorner's firing from the lapd. that he wants to re-examine this case to see if anything -- that there's validity to what dorner has said in his manifesto to either prove or disprove what dorner said. he said the results of that

inquiry will be made public. presumably dorner would want to have his day in court, as it were. have his case heard again to make his plea to present his argument again to the lapd as they reopen and re-examine this case. >> now, one of the things that we do know is that he allegedly had been at another cabin where the alleged robbery of a car or the pickup truck happened. do we know if where he's barricaded now was a cabin that no one was there? is it possible someone is in the cabin? or was he -- has he gone in a cabin that was empty or abandon snd. >> well, we don't know about the cabin where he is now. whether it was empty, whether it was occupied. we do know that the cabin where he got the truck, there were two people in there. they were tied up for a bit. one of them was able to escape, get free and make a 911 call. and that's how this drama began.

we don't know about the cabin where he is now. >> so we do not know if he may have other hostages, where he is, or if he's alone. and we don't know if the police -- the san bernardino police or other agencies know how to make contact, phone contact or whatever communications if in fact he wanted to communicate and negotiate or surrender if this is dorner. >> that's exactly right. all they've got now to that cabin now has been gunfire. but i don't know they have established contact. i would imagine that they want to try to get to him as you say to send this message, the message that they were trying to deliver through the press. that it's time to turn himself in. enough is enough. it's time to end the blood shed. >> clint, let me ask you. how does this play out. you are a former fbi profiler. what are the stages that they

would be going through now to try and establish whether or not there's more than dorner if it is dorner in the cabin he's at, how to make contact, is there phone lines, is there a way to set up communication. give us an idea of the kind of procedures that they'd be going through at this point. >> right now, al. obviously one is law enforcement tactical teams. and others have surrounded that cabin and made sure no one can get in and in theory no one can get out. if they're being shot at and have a clear target, they will shoot back. if you're trying to identify an existing phone line that's in there or guf him a throw phone. in essence, a regular tmpb on a cord that the tactical team could throw up through a window

and give him the opportunity to throw the phone and talk to law enforcement. intelligence gathering officers and agents will be trying to determine if there is anyone else inside there who could be held against their will. and obviously that's going to impact tactically on how they may or may not approach that cabin. >> joining me now on the phone is mary ellen o'toole, a former fbi profiler. mary ellen, thanks for joining us. tell me what your feelings are given what information is available at this point. >> sure. thank you very much. the situation at least in my opinion at this point indicates that chris does not want to give up peacefully. i mean, that seems pretty obvious. but the fact he's facing such force with law enforcement down there is actually pretty

stunning. because there really is no way he can come out of this unless he wants to do it peacefully. and they're going to make every attempt to see if there's someone else in that cabin, make sure people if they are inside are safe. they're going to do what they can. but on chris's part, there's no indication he wants this to end peacefully, unfortunately. >> well, let me stop you right there. i want to come back to you, but joining me on the phone now is j.r. obernolte mayor of big bear lake. thank you for joining me. how is this effecting the town? you are at the center of where this is all playing out. tell us what you can about how it's effecting your town and what you are hoping law enforcement can achieve here. >> well, the carjacking and home invasion was in the city of big bear lake. now the action is centered

around a small committee called seven oaks which is seven miles to the south of big bear. so we're thankful none of our residents or tourists were put at risk by this. right now we're thinking the most -- i have to tell you about the two law enforcement officers that were injured in the shootout. our thoughts and prayers are with them. we have a huge debt of gratitude that their defense of the community. >> their condition is unknown. we certainly pray for their recovery and sustaining of life. how are the two people that we were told were his alleged hostages? do you know? >> i do not know. wouldn't surprise me if i knew them personally. we're a tight knit community up here and most of us know each other. i do not know who they were. >> but as far as you know they were not harmed? >> as far as i know they were not harmed. i'm very proud of the way our whole community has bourn up under this situation. i think it's indicative to the

spirit of the people who live here. what happened when those two residents faced that home invasion that the first thing they did, they got free and called law enforcement. that's the reason why chris dorner is holed up in a cabin and not fleeing somewhere else. >> now, is there any indication yet that you have if you can reveal it how long he may have been in the cabin with these two people if in fact this is mr. dorner? >> i do not know that. although i have to say i've been impressed with the professionalism of the law enforcement response up here in big bear in the last few days. they've been very diligent about searching all the cabins where chris dorner could have been. i would be surprised if he's been in that cabin the whole sometime. >> now, is there -- because of the searches and because of the rumor, has there been a lot of fear in the city of your town of big bear for the last few days?

has this really had people living a stressful condition the last several days? >> well, it's been stressful, but i'm proud of the way our community has responded. there's been no panic. we're resilient up here. we're in the mountains. we're used to adversities like snow you measure in feet and not inches. this is just something else to bear. i'm glad it's coming to an end. >> if chris dorner is listening, what would you say to him? >> if he's listening to me? >> yes, if he's listening right now on television. >> i would urge him to give himself up and not to throw his life away. i think that everyone has something to contribute and maybe he has not found what his purpose in life is, but i don't think it is to die in seven oaks today. >> well, mr. mayor, we all join you in praying for those officers as well as hopeful that the two citizens of your town

are in good condition at this point. thank you so much, mr. mayor. >> thank you. >> let me go back to mary ellen o'toole. former fbi profiler. you said you feel this indicates that he does not want to give himself up peacefully. if he was holding people for days and didn't harm them, does that tell you anything about him, mary ellen? >> actually -- no, actually, it does. those dynamics in that cabin are actually important. he restrained them and they were able to get away. which was not his intent. fortunately he did not kill them, but we don't know how they were treated during the period

of time that he was with them. it does underscore for me his focus is on law enforcement. his focus is on his revenge as he calls it in his manifesto at getting back at law enforcement. and not with -- hopefully not with, you know, civilians. i mean, that's actually a very good sign. but under the circumstances of what we've got going on right now with the firefight with law enforcement, unfortunately it is kind of a small piece of behavior when you consider exactly what's going on now which is he's basically fighting for his life right now. and it doesn't sound like that's going to -- and that's what he wanted. that's what he put in the manifesto. and sadly, unless things change dramatically, it does not appear -- one thing he does not

want is to be arrested by lapd having his picture taken with them putting handcuffs. it sounds he's going to be in this for the long haul. and that's very sad considering how all this got started. losing your job, i understand it's a big deal. but it's not worth all of this. >> all right, mary ellen, let me thank you. let me go on to the phone line to talk to psychologist jeff gardere. jeff, what do you think from what we know is going through chris dorner's mind assuming this is chris dorner and what we've been told with the things that have occurred. what do you say would be going through his mind at this point? >> well, at this point i would believe this is what he has been dreading. but at the same time wanting. the final face-off, the final showdown with the police. reverend, it seems to me this is

an individual who was going to accomplish his mission, try to take down as many cops as possible especially those who may have been associated with his circumstance of being fired from the lapd. and therefore, once that was accomplished, then he would either take his life or die by suicide by cop. >> now, dr. gardere, if in fact he was held up in a cabin with hostages for a day or more and didn't harm them and we've not seen any signs of him harming other law enforcement, could it be argued that he wanted to do this in l.a. if we're talking about revenge? or what does that tell us? there's this focus on just one department? are we misreading his intention?

it seems to me that in six days we have not seen a consistent pattern that makes a lot of sense. none of this makes sense someone would do this as we've been told. but what is this break in pattern if in fact he's been held up and did not kill his hostages? >> if he didn't kill or harm his hostages, i don't think it's out of character for him at all. he was very, very straightforward as to what it is that he wanted to accomplish and who his list of enemies were or happened to be. >> right. >> and therefore at any time this ask a man who's a sharp shooter and has incredible skills and could have harmed many more people. >> now, if, in fact, and if he's listening i want to emphasize something clint said. if, in fact, he was committed to the things he said in his

manifesto and not just using that, what purpose would he gain by not living and coming guae id in front of the world now? whatever he would face in the criminal justice system, the world media would be there and telling his story as well as documenting some of the other things he's saying. if he believes what he's saying, wouldn't he come forward and do that, dr. gardere? >> i believe, reverend, he made up his mind a long time ago that he was going to go down in flames. he was going to take down the lapd either their reputation and/or lives. and then being able to be able to expose them, his mission would be done. he understands that he will not get a fair shake. that he will not be indicated. but especially by the lapd because he sees them as being corrupt. therefore he will not receive the justice that he feels he should get.

so what he is doing is trying to expose the lapd as much as possible. take out as many people within the lapd. try to as much as possible. and therefore can become a martyr. and we see that is happening. tlas strange phenomenon in that there are many people who are now seeing him sort of as a robin hood. as a person who we need to extol his virtues for bringing out something that many people do believe is a reality and that the lapd has been a racist police force for quite some time even though we know that officers, captains are making some changes and police commissioner has made some very good changes within the lapd. but there's still a lot of work that needs to be done. and he is highlighting that. and that's where his plan though it seems crazy has actually worked for him.

>> but at the same time, all of us have policemen in our families, all of us know policemen. to kill innocent people is not to really underscore what has gone wrong in the system. and we've all fought. if you're really trying to make a point, you have to live for the point rather than die and have others distort your point if in fact you have a point. >> so interesting you should say that because i thought about you. a person who in the early days was discriminated against so much. and your response was to be an activist, to fight for civil rights, to make it known as to what it is that we need to do to fight racism. and that's what i would have hoped dorner would have done. and why perhaps his response which has been so over the top, so murderous really defeats the purpose in what it is that could have been something that could have help sod many people. it will not help anyone now.

he's taken innocent lives. and i believe his life will be taken soon enough. >> i have no idea of the entire story. but i do know there are a lot of legitimate claims of people in los angeles that should not be distorted or misunderstood by the behavior of someone who would. if he feels it's legitimate, he should come forward and fight it out. because if he goes down in a hail of bullets as you and dr. gardere feels he does, what has been achieved? and how does that color those who claims he is concerned about? >> well, exactly. he is really living out to be what we call in the behavioral analysis unit, he's an injustice

collector. they go throughout life collecting injustices and never forgetting about them. the distinction between someone who believes they're wrong and an injustice collector is they believe what happened to them is to outrageous and egregious that that's what gets the attention. it's not the injustice. it's their reaction to the injustice. and frankly, right now in my opinion he's not focussed on how other people will view him. the world resolves around chris. i think the world has resolved around him for a long time. right now in the situation i think that's exacerbated or made worse. i don't think he's thinking about what kind of a role model he may be for other people who have legitimate gripes and complaints. he's thinking right now if he

is -- his cognitive skills have diminished. >> dr. gardere, the case that he was fired about making statements that they -- lapd claimed to be false was four years ago. explain to me what could happen to somebody psychologically that four years later they respond. what happens -- you would think this happened four weeks ago, four days ago. we're talking about four years. what happens in somebody that would make them snap if that is in fact, what happened? >> well, i believe this is an individual who for a very long time has been building the resentment, the hate, the aggression, the rage. everything that has gone wrong in his life he doesn't take responsibility for.

even if he was fired wrongly, now he latches on to that emotional psychological insult and using that as a crutch for everything else that has gone wrong in his life. one of the things we know about him from reading his manifesto, at one point he was in a van, allegedly a police officer said the "n" word. and the tried to choke him. this is a person that's been unstable for a long time. >> i'll have to leave it there. we will continue monitoring this story. a very volatile situation in california. and again, if this is mr. dorner and he can hear us, any way we can facilitate you feeling that you can come and surrender, we will do that. we do not want to see the continued blood shed of innocent people. that does not do anything but further harm the things that you

claim that you believe. and we certainly hope the nation's praying for those two officers that have been wounded and for the families of the three that have already lost their lives. this is certainly a national tragedy no matter what the facts end up being. let's turn as we continue to monitor this, let's turn to the other big story of the day. the state of the union. president obama will build on his vision he laid out in his inaugural unveiling in detail his plan for the next four years and beyond. in an excerpt that has just been released, the president says a growing economy that creates good, middle class jobs that must be the north star that guides our efforts every day. we should ask ourselves three questions as a nation. how do we attract more jobs to our shores? how do we equip our people with the skills needed to do those jobs? how do we make sure that hard

work leads to a decent living? that's the end of the quote. that's an excerpt from his state of the union address tonight. the president will also announce a major draw down from afghanistan. 34,000 troops will be coming back home. half the troops that are there now will be coming home. the first lady's guest tonight will reflect the president's priority. it includes a 102-year-old woman who waited on line three hours on election day so she could exercise her right to vote. it includes a college student from mexico who is one of the first people to benefit from the obama administration's program allowing young, undocumented immigrants to study here. and the first lady's guest list includes the parents of hadiya pendelton. the honor student shot and killed after participating in the inauguration.

it's a historic night. a chance for the president to speak directly to the american people and set the stage for the second half of his presidency. let's bring in krystal ball and richard wolffe. thank you for coming on the show tonight. >> thanks for having us. >> what do you expect from the president's state of the union tonight? >> well, i think he is going to talk a lot about the economy as that excerpt indicated. he's going to focus on not just jobs but the jobs you can afford to support a family on. it also looks like judging by the fact that he's going to have the 102-year-old woman as you mentioned who waited in line for three hours to cast her ballot perhaps as a smaller mention in his speech. i'm hoping he will talk in specific language about election reform, about how we can avoid having long lines in the future. minorities waited on average almost twice as long as white voters to cast their ballots.

>> and in florida it was the longest lines. >> longest lines in the country. >> and there were people like bishop curry. if they had not done that, i don't know we'd got the results like we did in florida. >> that's right. 200,000 voters in florida alone left the polls because they were frustrated over long lines. you also have this just very arcane system of voter registration. patchwork of regulations across the country. so i would love to hear some specifics from him. it's something he's talked about, mentioned before, mentioned in his inaugural. mentioned in his victory speech. but to get into specifics and show he's going to put human capital behind that. >> and the fact he's having the 102-year-old woman there gives us hope he will do that. the other factor is the supreme court justices, most of them will be sitting there. february 27th, later this month, they will be hearing the argument on section five of the voting rights act.

and if you didn't have section five in the voting rights act, the attorney general couldn't have intervened in south carolina and other states with a preclearance change -- a preclearance section to stop some of the changing in voting. >> right. that's important. remember, this president isn't shy about calling out the supreme court in the state of the union. >> that's why i brought it up. judge alito agrees with you. >> yeah, right. will he do it on this? or will he call out something else? remember the supreme court was kind to him last year when it came to health care reform? >> the supreme court is also going to hear sometimes you hear same-sex marriage. he may bring that up in front of them. >> this is a president who feels the wind at his back. he knows republicans are struggling to find a path through this. his inaugural address, they didn't much like it, but he's see action already. when you look at immigration reform, i don't think anyone in washington seriously thinks it's not going to happen. there's a question about scope, about speed, but this is really

on the cards. the question on gun control, gun safety, you know, he's obviously going to call that out. you don't get the parents of pendelton out there unless you're going to make an emotional appeal on this and say now is the time. economy, afghanistan. again, this president is in a confident mood here. >> here's another excerpt. tonight i'll lay out additional proposals that are full fi paid for and fully consistent with the budget framework both parties agreed to just 18 months ago. let me repeat. nothing i'm proposing tonight should increase our deficit by a single dime. it's a smarter government we need that sets priorities and invests in broad based growth. interesting statement, krystal. >> absolutely. republicans try to caricature him as a big government liberal

who's never seen a government program that he doesn't like, who's going to spind us into the ditch. he's going to turn us into greece. the facts and the record say things that are different. since january it's been quite a while. i think it was january 2008 we actually had a surplus. this january he has been slowing the growth of government spending. it has been a priority for him. but obviously because of the economic realities, we had to invest in the country in an immediate way to get us back on track. so making that case reminding voters that he has been a responsible hand on the tiller when it comes to balancing the budget and keeping those policies in mind is important too. >> richard, i want to bring this up because i want to bring this up. >> do it. >> when we've talked about the 102-year-old woman, the student from mexico hadiya pendelton who was killed by gunfire in chicago, her parents sitting

there, we talk about what it represents and the priorities of the president. and all of us relate to what that represents. but one congressman is bringing today nugent tonight. ted nugent who said in my judgment some of the most venomous stuff in the election. what signal does that send? >> ted nugent to be fair says he's going to demilitarize for tonight. whatever that means? >> how kind of him. >> here is a party that is still on the track of what bobby jindal, one of their rising stars, says is the stupid party. and this isn't just about a president who won the election who's feeling confident. he is talking about bigger issues that speak to american voters more than deficit cutting. more than protecting these outlandish folks who whether they're celebrities or tea party or both, republicans still feel they're the base. the question for republicans isn't how you rebut this president tonight, what will marco rubio do?

the question for republicans is can they connect with mainstream america? and if you cannot talk to values, if you cannot talk to aspirations of the middle class, they're never going to get there. ted nugent isn't going to take them there. >> people need to be reminded to what nugent said. you can be conservative, you can be republican, you can be one that doesn't agree with the president. but ted nugent, why would a congressman bring -- let me see if i can play for people what ted nugent said. >> barack obama becomes the president in november again, i will either be dead or in jail by this time next year. >> now, why would you bring someone like that as your guest to the state of the union address and you are a republican congressman? >> they're not taking either the night seriously, they're not taking politics seriously. it's politics as a show. that may work on some cable news channels, but again, how does this party -- how do republicans

speak to real voters' concerns. this is the party that only a few years ago had a rising star whose only claim to stardom was he accused the president of lying in the state of the union. >> right. >> you know, they do have a real choice. in certain districts this might work. on certain news channels, this might work. they will never make it to national power taking this. >> it's a cheap political stunt. it's a pr stunt. this guy wanted his name in the news. and he's getting it. >> the congressman? >> the congressman who invited ted nugent. this is what this is all about. it's pr for himself in a negative way. but like you're saying, this still plays in parts of the republican party. and i do think it illustrates in a way this divide that does exist in the republican party. because probably the person who is most nervous, most uncomfortable with the fact that ted nugent has been invited is john boehner. they're the ones who are trying to steer the republican party

maybe back in a decent course. increase the republican party's brand image in the estimation of the american people. >> well -- i'm going to have to take a break. but when we come back, i'm going to pick up on john boehner's response to that. krystal, richard, stay with me. we'll have more ahead. we're monitoring the breaking news. a standoff involving ex-cop christopher dorner who police believe has barricaded himself in a california cabin. we'll be right back with more on the state of the union. twins. i didn't see them coming. i have obligations. cute obligations, but obligations. i need to rethink the core of my portfolio. what i really need is sleep. introducing the ishares core, building blocks for the heart of your portfolio. find out why 9 out of 10 large professional investors choose ishares for their etfs. ishares by blackrock. call 1-800-ishares for a prospectus which includes investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. read and consider it carefully before investing. risk includes possible loss of principal.

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we're back watching that tense situation out in california. fugitive chris dorner may be barricaded in a cabin near big bear, california. we're watching that if in fact it is him, again, we appeal to him to come forward and surrender and lay your case out in front of the world if, in fact, you believe what you have said in the manifesto you wrote. if, in fact, you believe it, it serves no purpose to not end this in a way where no more innocent lives or blood is shed and where we certainly can hear what it is you claim was the injustice. but no injustice justifies -- none -- justifies shedding of innocent lives. we pray for those officers hurt today and the families of the

deceased. let's turn to the other big story again. the state of the union. president obama said the worst day of his presidency was the day of sandy hook. since first learning about it, the gun control has been the top of his agenda. the gun control issue. and the fight has been constant. and tonight on the biggest stage, the president will make the case to the american people. but he won't be alone. we'll see the courageous faces of tragedy. over 20 families of gun victims will be in that hall tonight. americans whose lives have been forever changed including the family of hadiya pendelton, the honor student killed in a park. her parents will sit in the first lady's box. today we heard some of the stories from the courageous americans. >> i'm here today because my

daughter never came home. i'm here today because she lost her life to gun violence. >> on december 14th we lost the love and light of our family, our daughter grace. after that day i made a promise to her that i would be her voice. >> i am here to speak for her since she is not here to speak for herself. >> we have the obligation to try. >> right now congress can act, step up, and govern. please don't let us down. >> we're back with krystal and richard. could tonight be the turning point on this issue? because here we're seeing krystal, human faces. here we're seeing the people whose lives will never be the same, a loved one gone.

hadiya's mother. other relatives. that it's not republican/democrat. it's not the aisle which you sit on, this is real life. they're sitting there saying this has to stop. could this be the turning point tonight? >> there is nothing more powerful than those voices and stories of tragedy. i think we've seen the turning point. i think the turning point was sandy hook. the nation said this is unacceptable and we have to try. we don't know what all the answers are, but we have to try. and what's inskrecredible is th was a lot of talk how it was december when sandy hook happened, we had lots of other things going on in politics. maybe the president would decide he wanted to spend his political capital elsewhere especially with republican-controlled house. but there has been such continued support for movement in this area and to his credit the president and vice president have really continued to push. and this state of the union address will be the next step on

this. now, i do think it could be the turning point in terms of actual action from congress. i was one of those who was skeptical. that you could get anything meaningful through this congress on gun legislation. but the pressure has been so hot and so sustained that i do now think that it's possible. >> richard, what do you think is possible to get out of this grs? in terms of gun control? >> we're obviously looking at universal background checks or closing the loopholes on background checks. you know, that is -- if this is a turning point, it's a slow turning point. right? so if our expectations are that nothing would happen, yeah, we can do better than that. but that's not really going to make that much of a dent in gun violence. this is has got to be 10, 20 years of persistent effort. this is like rolling back the influence of tobacco in this country and the tobacco lobby. it's like changing the behavior of the car industry for safety. that didn't happen overnight.

that happened because there was effort on a whole range of fronts. whether it was families of victims or the medical side of it or the industry becoming involved and legislation. all of those things coming together over time. so yeah, it's the start. it's the start of something and it's the start of something big. and if not for the actions of the white house, congress would have dropped it. background checks are difficult things for some members of the congress. but what we saw from the tobacco debate, once the mystique is broken, once the spell is broken of the lobby, in that case it was a tobacco institute. in this case it's the nra. things change and they can change very quickly. >> the fact that we are see iin movement at all is hopeful, but is it going to be enough and do we have the challenge of continuing this even beyond some first steps. i mean, we may get something

that's not enough. how do we keep it going? >> well, i think we've already set in some ways the wheels in motion for the sort of continued sustained action that we will need to have a bigger impact over time. i mean, for the longest time the political calculus for any politician democrat or republican running in a rural red or purple state was to be as pro-gun as possible. there just was no political incentive on the other side to support gun control. now you're seeing groups between the group that mark kelly and gabby giffords has set up, mayors against guns. to provide incentives to be on the right side of this issue. that hasn't existed really ever to have money significant money and power behind you to be in favor of gun control. so that will gradually shift the calculus. i also think that we've seen a process of education on where

the public stands on these various issues. the nra for the longest time had a monopoly on this conversation. they were able to convince voters democrats wanted to come from their guns. now we're getting into the specifics of what we're talking about, that position and rhetoric is no longer sustainable. >> going to have to leave it there. krystal ball, richard wolffe, thanks for your time tonight. >> thanks, reverend. we're continuing to monitor the situation in california where ex-lapd cop is believed to have barricaded himself in a california cabin. let's listen in now to more from knbc's coverage. >> -- a split level. but what's amazing to me, as i stand here i can look down at the parking lot at the ski resort where they held the press conferences and i'm telling you, it is under the length of i'd say a football field and a half from where they were