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at the top of the show, we asked you, why are you awake? john, what are the answers? >> two here, james writes, i'm up writing my apology letter to bob woodward. and john writes, this cavens kid's got talent. >> we're going to cue the music. i'm going to do my tap dance lesson here in a second. oh, wait. we don't have any time for that? i guess we'll have to do that next time. great show back there in the control room. "morning joe" starts right now. i guess the republican party feels like that pell grants and food stamps and the faa and home mortgage interest deduction and all this other stuff in the

federal government should be shielded, but those who have been fighting the war that protects us all from radical islam should be on the chopping block. ronald reagan should be rolling over in his grave. shame on everybody who agreed this was a good idea on our side. >> yeah. good morning, everyone. it's sequester day. does anyone know what that means? friday, march 1st. >> i just felt the earth tilt on its axis. >> i did. you know what? oh. there it was. ♪ i feel the earth move under my feet." >> i don't know what time it is. >> does anybody care? >> look who's here, eugene robinson, john heilemann and richard wolffe. look at this! pulitzer prize-winning columnist from "the washington post" and political analyst, eugene robinson. and from washington -- wait a

minute. she has been literally -- do you ever leave the hill, kelly o'donnell? seriously. >> this morning i'm in the bureau, but the rest of my life is spent in a very small booth on the hill, yes. >> a shot of that bureau so people will know -- you didn't exactly trade up. that's a middle school. >> it's good to have kelly on board. >> it was built as a bomb shelter. >> i think it was. there's that know oneo-stalinis. >> that's comforting to know. >> it feels like going home. >> you know, kelly just said, it's comforting to know it was built as a bomb shelter, because we know, the sequester. >> yeah. >> ronald reagan's rolling over in his grave. the russians, al qaeda -- >> we should cover that story. >> the chinese, the head of the red army, they are coming. >> let's not overcorrect. >> they are coming. and in the words of mike tyson, they're going to eat our babies.

this is going to be very bad. frogs are going to rain down from the sky. i saw that tom cruise movie. >> "magazinolia." >> this stuff's going to happen. "fear and loathing." >> "snakes on a plane." >> snalocusts descending from t heavens. it is the seventh plague, and lindsey graham let us know, none of us are going to be immune from this pain. >> thank you, lindsey. >> let's make it a good one. >> let's make it a good one! >> that's everything. >> the last show. let's go. and kelly o'donnell, you're at the bomb shelter. tell my children that i love them. >> we're sorry, kelly, for him. thank you for being here. >> good to see you all. >> reporting from capitol hill where you've been there 24/7 covering the story. today $85 billion in across-the-board spending cuts

hit federal agencies and the pentagon. the two competing plans to avert the sequester failed -- >> doomsday budget machine. >> that's a better name. as was expected, in fact, the democrats' plan didn't get a single vote from the republicans across the aisle. although the budget cuts are widespread, the biggest drivers of debt and the economy are largely spared. according to "the wall street journal," the government spent over 50% of the federal budget last year on medicare, social security, medicaid and interest on the federal debt. but the entitlement programs are almost completely untouched by the new cuts. the number of americans who receive social security retirement benefits is expected to grow 40% over the next decade. in just three years, the social security disability trust fund is forecast to burn through its reserves. and medicare funding to pay hospital bills is projected to run out by 2024. new york city mayor michael

bloomberg is calling for more leadership from the white house. >> i think the mistake that was made here is we let congress write the health care bill so that it's just a collection of special interests. you got yours. he got his. and i voted for both of those because i got mine. and it doesn't make any sense. nobody's ever read the bill. it's just not going to work. the same thing is true with dodd/frank. congress shouldn't be writing specific laws. the president should send to congress the specific law that was created by people who are experts in the field and then sell it to them. they may have to tinker a little bit here and there to get some votes, but fundamentally, the leadership has to come from 1600 pennsylvania avenue and not the other way around. >> they're the reason why, actually, and "the wall street journal" points this out, the reason we go from one stupid budget exercise to the other is republicans spent the last decade spending more on entitlements, you know, $7 trillion drug benefit plan.

democrats don't want to touch it. >> mm-hmm. >> when republicans touch it, they get killed. when democrats touch it, they get killed. >> why can't they do it together? >> what are we doing? we're cutting discretionary domestic spending, the last place we should go. we're cutting defense, which i want to cut defense, but let's cut defense in a smart way. but we won't do it because everybody's afraid to talk about entitlements. >> well, but, you know, i think there can be a conversation about entitlements. it's just -- we didn't have to go through this -- this exercise, this silly sequester exercise. >> it seems like both sides overshot. >> well, undershot, i think. >> undershot? >> you know. i think there was a bigger deal to be had in 2011, and they didn't have it, so we've kind of rolled our way to this point where we're doing gratuitous harm to american citizens. you know, it's kind of silly. >> i want to show reverend al

found this. this is just a compilation of -- and how it works in local news, the major newspapers sometimes get stuff from the white house and from washington. then the local newspapers run some of those articles. and then the local news use those articles as sources. and then this is what people across -- >> this is actually -- if "new york times" gets a press release from the white house -- >> i did not say that. >> let's check it out. i am. but if you're a local news guy, newswoman, news director, it goes straight from the white house unfiltered into the local channel and fear and loathing in middle america. >> this is what people are going to get. >> meals on wheels in hastings and provides a hot meal to 80 seniors. but the possible sequestration could bring that all to a halt. >> fayetteville will lose $145,000. money that helps level the playing field for students in poverty. special education would take a $91,000 hit. >> one of the biggest impacts for the city and frankly all of liberty county are civilian jobs.

thousands of people get a paycheck because they work at fort stewart. >> more than 3,000 children take part in hillsborough county's head start program. but like many government agencies, it's been bracing for cuts from the sequester. >> if inspectors are pulled from the line, it could slow production. that means you'll be paying more for your meat. >> if this would go away, you're talking a lot of people that would not have a nice hot meal. >> does that take you back? >> your hot meals are going to be gone. >> and you've got to pay more for your meat. >> all these things are true. >> no, they're not. no, they're not. >> but the point is -- >> no, they're not. >> listen. >> listen. let's bottom line it. it's stupid cuts, mika. >> exactly. >> at the ends of the day, the $85 billion in stupid cuts the cbo says will only be $44 billion in stupid cuts. >> stupid cuts. >> $44 billion of a $3.6

trillion. that's one penny in stupid cuts out of a dollar of federal spending, we'll probably survive. >> but the penny we spend to inspect your meat. >> by the way, can i just say because john heilemann, so many people say, this is a great point, that our government is not efficient. maybe not 99 cents out of a dollar is efficient, but this one penny out of a dollar keeps our planes in the air, keeps our meat safe and cheap, feeds seniors, takes care of young children. >> hot meals on wheels. >> hot meals on wheels. >> head start. >> lindsey says this one penny protects us from al qaeda. >> head start. >> russians, the soviets from dennis rodman. if we could just harness the power of this one penny, john heilemann, it would be efficient government. this is a dreadful penny to cut. and why we would cut -- with all the wasteful government spending, why we would cut this

one penny, i don't get it. >> why can't they get together and make real cuts? the republicans are trying to make the president do it now. why don't they do it together? they know they have to. that's the only way. does anyone want to answer? >> yeah, i do. >> okay. >> if this one penny that they're going to cut out of a dollar is so dreadful, why wouldn't the president say -- because i'd do it. yeah, let me make the cuts. give it to me. i'll cut the one penny. but the president balked on it. >> well -- >> everybody is punting on this. >> i know, but if you believe, like the president believes, that this one penny out of a dollar, this $44 billion out of $3.6 trillion that's going to be cut from the budget is going to destroy national defense, is going to endanger americans' lives, and their meat's going to be more expensive and seniors will be thrown out onto the street, if you guys don't have the courage to save seniors and keep meat prices low, i'll step in and do it. >> yes, well, you're using a very vivid illustration to make the point that there's a lot of scare talk around this, and it's

a political exercise in which people are trying to drive rhetorical points. there's a bigger -- this is about a bigger thing. and the bigger thing is, you know, this is, i think, not just about this fight that's coming to at least a temporary conclusion today, but about the fights to come over the debt ceiling and over the continuing resolution, keeping the government going. the president is playing a hard game of politics right now. to try to get the whip hand over republicans. republicans are playing another hard game with the president. these guys are -- this is not about that one penny on the dollar. and i think you're vividly illustrating the fact that that's a rhetorical trope, but it's about who's going to have the advantage going forward on issues of taxes and spending over the next few months. >> the president right now is -- and i'm not knocking him. i mean, if you're a politician, this is what you do, the president is really -- he's getting his sea legs. he's got the republicans on their heels. he's bearing down on them.

he killed them on the fiscal cliff. he could give them relief. he could do the cuts himself. he's staying after them here. he's now talking about marriage equality, putting them on their heels there. this week conservatives have been put in the position to be against the civil rights act of 1965. last night, they were against violence against women. >> right. >> i mean, you know, rich lowrie with "the national review" wrote a column that said our party right now, we're sort of in the ditch. you know, just get a blanket. find an old blanket on the side of the road and pull it over you because we're going to be in the ditch for a while. but they are setting -- republicans -- some of the wounds, of course, are self-infli self-inflicted, as they always are, but the president's on a run, and he is not going to let them off the mat right now. >> kelly, we have republicans on, and i say, okay, how come you won't talk? it's because we won't raise taxes. the president wants to close loopholes. i will ask in that same conversation, are you for closing loopholes, and they'll

say yes. why, then, can't they come up with the cuts that they want since they need so badly to be done? i don't understand. >> well, closing the loophole is something that john boehner again yesterday said he is for. the thing that really counts here in terms of how they negotiate is they don't want to sort of spend that chip now in this conversation. they're prepared to do it in a bigger conversation about reforming the tax code, about trying to change the structure of entitlements for the long term. so they say they're willing to do it but not for a smaller package. you know, when you go back to where we were in the summer of 2011 when all of this was coming into being, people didn't believe this would actually happen. and here we are, we've sort of worn down people's expectations about what government can or cannot do, what congress will or won't do. and they've let the 11th hour come and nearly something. and instead of the usual hectic pace to resolve it, it was sort of a big eh, you know? >> so let me ask joe the same

question. because if this party is supposedly so intent on making responsible -- >> fiscal decisions. >> fiscal decisions. and these aren't. these cuts are random across the board, and some of them are cruel. and ridiculous given the amount of money that needs to be cut, which you found out is even less than what we're talking about which wasn't even that much. >> the cruelest penny. >> why can't they talk about entitlements, and why can't they bring something to the table? why would they put this on the president now when the president is only proposing to close loopholes, which they agree with? >> because republicans support a balanced approach. if you look at what's happened -- >> excuse me. worlds are colliding. >> yep. >> you guys want to finish? >> i'm loving it. >> that's some phlegm. >> keep going. >> so republicans support a balanced approach. >> uh-huh. >> mr. wolfe. >> it's friday.

>> you need a sip of that? >> we have all day. we have three hours. no, i'm truly curious. >> republicans support a balance add approach. >> so republicans have taken the president at his word that he supports a balance add approach, so they support a balanced approach, too. what have we had, the fiscal cliff, and now we have sequester. the president decided, and congress decided, that the fiscal cliff, instead of being a balance of tax increases and spending cuts would be 100% tax increases. so now we move to the next step in the process. and this is the sequester. that has always been about spending cuts. >> yeah. >> and so if our last exercise, budgetary exercise, was 100% tax increases, let's make this all about spending cuts. the two do balance each other. and we move forward. and then let's talk about a balanced approach where we'll close the loopholes, which i support, but mr. president, you

say you support reforming medicare and medicaid and social security. so if you really support that, we'll do that all together. >> i don't think that the republicans do support that. >> the republicans do support that. >> really? >> yeah, they do support that. i don't think the president supports entitlement reform. i mean, so here we are. and we're going around in circles. >> richard wolffe. >> richard wolffe is there. his throat is cleared. >> finally. friday. >> a massive, a massive clump of phlegm. >> i can think of worse things. >> not you. >> okay, stop. >> what was inside your throat? >> i'm a little bit perplexed. first of all, let's all agree that not only are they getting the approach to the budget wrong, and i mean "they," we're obviously talking about republicans and democrats in washington, but they are also getting themselves wrong. the sequester was designed to force themselves into a position, and they didn't even

believe themselves and believe their own deadlines. they didn't even agree with their own motives. if republicans are not willing to stop defense cuts, then the sequester was structured all lo wrong, and they don't know who they are. that's the biggest problem of all. if they don't know who they are, how are they going to get to a deal? you talked about the president wants 100% tax rises. it's all taxes in terms of revenue. >> the fiscal cliff was 100% tax. >> i do think it was a mistake to pull those things apart. the whole initial strategy for the white house was to deal with the bush tax cuts and spending and lump them together. so in splitting it apart, we've ended up in this limbo. it's a netherworld. and the problem is that you say, well, it's just one penny. but they're not dealing with the 50 pennies in the dollar on entitlements. they're not dealing with another 30, 40 pennies. >> exactly. >> on defense. >> let me underline, i do think

that the $85 billion that cbo says will be $44 billion, i still think that's reckless and stup stupid, and there are people that are going to be hurt by it. it's not the right way to do it. i'm not underselling it, but when everybody comes out and says the world's coming to an end, everybody's overplaying their hand. >> especially since they could have avoided stupid smaller cuts. >> we've got to go to break. because we want "politico" to come in and tell us what's happening with this whole bob woodward at war thing. >> i have some e-mails from gene spurling i'll be reading later. i have 15 years worth of gene spurling e-mails. i'm going to read them all. >> as a friend, i think you might regret. >> whoa, be careful. >> alex is screaming in all your ears to be quiet. former white house adviser david axelrod, general ray odierno, moderator of "meet the press," david gregory. peter king takes on marco rubio to fund raise in new york. we'll explain why in the "politico playbook."

first here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> good friday morning. first day of march. it doesn't feel like it. this won't be like last year. probably a little later arriving spring. already snow showers this morning. you look out evansville, louisville, even chicago. not a lot of bad weather for your friday. let me take you through it. just nuisance snow showers in the midwest and northeast. not bad in the southeast. still a little chilly by this time of year by the standards. 48 today in atlanta. l.a., by the way, 85. we're worried about the fire danger out there. we did have a fire that formed last night in riverside county. by the time we get to saturday, continued snow showers. the cool air continues to be in the southeast. kind of a chilly first weekend of march. when things get a little more interesting is when we go into sunday and into next week. watch billings. that's where we get the cold air, and we're also going to deal with a snowstorm. this will be the big story next week. i showed you this map yesterday. i'll show it again. that's the storm track. sunday, monday, tuesday, wednesday. that white strip shows you where the potential is of snow next

week. the pink would be where the potential is for heavier snows. notice that pinpoints areas possibly all through the mid-atlantic and maybe into even southern new england. that would be mid next week. that will be the big weather story next week. and of course, we'll track that for you here. just a little heads up for anyone traveling across the country next week, you're probably going to have to deal with that storm on the roads and in the air. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] marie callender's puts

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time now to take a look. look how pretty. that's where we work. >> we work in the empire state building? >> no, new york city. i always get kind of -- i just get overwhelmed.

this is like the coolest city. what? >> there's one penny helps fund chopper 4. >> all right, stop. "the charleston post courier" -- >> the lights are off. >> the lights are off. >> "the charleston post courier" -- >> the cruelest of pennies. >> boeing is looking to cut its temporary work force that currently employs more than 6,000 workers. it's a cost-cutting move that will reduce certain factory teams in south carolina by as much as 20%. the company says the cutbacks are not related to the recent problems with the 787 dreamliner jet. >> of course they're not. i'm eating a munchkin. can you read "the detroit news"? >> if you give me half to throw away. according to reports this morning, michigan governor rick snider will officially declare a financial emergency in detroit, setting up the state to take over the motor city. >> just have a munchkin already. >> it's like a little chick in her hand.

>> $327 million budget deficit and $14 billion in long-term debt. >> you know how much you want that? >> it's like a little chicken. it's like a baby chicken in her hand. >> it has your name written on it. >> so lovely. >> have the munchkin. oh! cruel. >> wow! oh! >> goodness. >> no. >> now, that was the cruelest penny. >> seriously. i mean, children are starving in japan. >> a million munchkins. >> you're welcome. >> "the boston globe," they've identified four spots in the human genome that may hold the key to helping those with mental disorders who throw away munchkins. according to a new study, there's a common genetic link between five mental disorders, schizophrenia, autism and adhd. >> that's groundbreaking. that's incredible. >> do you know what funds the

human genome project? that penny. >> "the wall street journal." groupon has fired ceo and founder andrew mason. in a statement, mason said, "after four and a half intense and wonderful years as ceo of groupon, i've decided that i'd like to spend more time with my family. just kidding -- i was fired today." >> i like this guy better already. >> someone will hire him just for that. "the new york times." >> it just didn't work out really well. she wants more of these munchkins. >> i do. >> you're not going to have these or my lucky charms. >> the u.s. department of agriculture is likely to approve a horse-slaughtering plant in new mexico. with the usda's approval, it would be the first time since 2007 that horse meat suitable for human consumption would be produced. here's a good one. "the st. louis post-dispatch."

"girls gone wild" has filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy. >> oh! good lord. >> what is wrong with you, gene? >> show us your torts. >> what? what? >> show us your torts. >> what the hell? >> can i have a munchkin? >> i'm uncomfortable. we should keep gene in washington. >> i don't know what that means, first groupon, now "girls gone wild." >> the company owes more than $13 million in lawsuit claims. could that be parents who didn't want to see their daughters pulling their shirt up at spring break? the company says the bankruptcy filings will not affect its operations. what a nightmare. >> thank god. >> what a stupid concept. totally taking advantage of young, stupid girls who go to florida and pull their shirts up. >> why are you picking on florida? >> really? >> you just assume florida -- >> cancun or whatever. >> where girls go and pull their shirts up? >> wherever they go for spring break. i'm probably wrong. >> no, they go to florida. >> really? >> he says knowledgably.

>> that's why joe loves the sunshine state so much. >> i miss the sunshine state. >> you certainly do. >> drunk people acting stupid being taken advantage of, put on camera. i think -- yeah. >> boca, baby. >> i think that could be every parent's nightmare. i hope they go down. >> go boca vista. >> they're not. well, actually -- what's next? >> you want me to do this one, too? >> yeah. i'd better just be quiet. >> and in this weekend's "parade" magazine, a day in the life of a country doctor. that's going to be cool. i like that. >> that's going to be great. >> i love that managazine. with us now, mike allen is here with the morning "playbook." hi, mike. >> happy march and happy friday. >> yes! >> oh! >> it's spring break time. >> time to clean. >> mike, at the end of our show yesterday, the woodward e-mail surfaced between bob and the

white house's gene spurling. "politico" released the e-mail from spurling to bob. >> i'm assuming bob's going to be on today. >> i apologize for raising my voice in our conversation today. my bad. come on, baby. i love gene. >> he's a bully, that's why. my bad. >> i do understand your problems with a couple of our statements in the fall but feel, on the other hand, that you focus on a few specific trees that gives a very wrong perception of the forest. but perhaps we will just not see eye to eye. but i do truly believe you should rethink your comment about saying that potus asking for revenues is moving the goalpost. i know you may not believe this, but as a friend, i think you will regret staking out that claim. my apologies again for raising my voice on the call with you. feel bad about that and truly apologize. we find out at the end of the show yesterday, because we were talking at the beginning this was probably just some stupid under, you know, some lowly

staff member. you know, they get in there, they get excited. we find out at the end of the show that this is gene spurling. we know gene. >> towering. >> he's a good guy. >> bob knows gene. >> bob knows gene. >> and bob, at the end, after that last e-mail says, you know, you never have to apologize to me, gene. >> gene's never threatened anybody. >> well, you know. >> yeah. >> he's sort of known as the tony soprano of democratic politics. that's how i've always thought of gene. >> so anyway, bob woodward is backtracking last night. he's doing the backstroke. >> mike? >> first of all, around the table, you guys know how intimidating gene spurling is. we now call him gene the fierce. >> oh, that's cute. >> and it rhymes, too. >> it doesn't really work. because he's so nice. >> so whatted there? what happened there? a lot of questions around this

table. why would woodward come out yesterday and say all this if he knew that there was an e-mail trail. this ain't '71. '72, '73. you don't have guys whispering to you in basements anymore. it's all on e-mail. >> bob woodward, i think, his sense of proprity was offended. respect must be paid to woodward. i think he didn't like the tone and content of this message from the white house. his reporting from his best-selling book, "the price of politics," had convinced him that the white house has been wrong about what they've been saying, about the genesis of the sequester. he didn't like this brushback from gene spurling. i guess they had had a shouting match. he says they have not had a makeup conversation. but his bigger point is, he says he doesn't think this is the way to do business by the white house. and he says that it's a reflection of how thin skinned that they are. that this is a white house

that's not used to taking criticism. >> that's a key word because we're looking at just what happened yesterday and not looking at this completely in context. this has been going on for some time between the white house and woodward. things got ugly. woodward said the president wasn't telling the truth. jack lew wasn't telling the truth. they pushed back on that. then woodward came back. the white house lobbing bombs at woodward, him lobbing them back. i wonder, did it get personal and maybe bob got a little thin-skinned. >> you could say that and look at this exchange of e-mails. the tone of the e-mails actually is pretty friendly, as you saw there. this is a little bit two mobsters talking to each other. these are people who expect to do business with each other again. gene sperling from the beginning was convinced that the woodward book about the grand bargain was going to more come out on the side of speaker boehner. they spent a lot of time with

woodward, and that's what's fascinating about this. even though they're taking shots at each other, the president gave bob woodward a long interview for this book. almost every key player in this drama, many of them around the dining room table of bob's house in georgetown where jim and i sat down with him and talked to him on camera about these e-mails. >> so let me ask you this because even last night -- and i can't wait to talk to bob about this because i'm really curious -- but as of last night, he was saying that it's sort of like a coded message for, you'd better watch out. and i know i was a reporter for many years. my husband is an investigative reporter in new york city. i hear the phone calls between him and representatives, what, from the mayor's office or housing or from state officials in the governor's office in new jersey and connecticut. i can hear the other side, too, screaming at him. i can hear f-bombs flying at

times. the e-mails back and forth, everyone's pushing in a little bit. >> thank god you don't hear that at work. >> i know, exactly. la la land here. i look at this e-mail, and it sa it's at docile and polite as it gets, mike. >> i think, first of all, bob woodward would say what you're describing there is not the way business should be done between public servants and the press. and his argument was that he, your husband, had been doing this for a long time. they can take it. they can dish it out. but he's saying for a younger reporter might take this as a little bit more of a push. and he just didn't like the tone of it. he didn't like the way he was being treated. >> it also followed, again, a 30-minute screaming match on the telephone where he had been yelled at apparently, he claims, for 30 minutes. and i will say -- >> i don't know. >> as a lawyer or former lawyer,

i wasn't a good one. >> clearly. >> clearly. why don't you go off set and clear your throat. >> self-deprecating. >> you do choose your words carefully. if i wanted to be polite but brush somebody back, a little baseball metaphor, not throw at their head but just brush them back, i would say regret. you may regret it. it's not a threat. but regret is a word -- you use words -- you understand what i'm saying? i'm not saying bob didn't overreact here. >> right. >> i am saying, though, regret is a word i would use if i just wanted to push somebody off the flight. >> as a friend, because they've known each other for many years. >> come on, though. you know what? you know how many times i've gotten on the phone and said, listen, i'm your friend. >> i'm your friend. >> that's the best one. >> can i just tell you this as a friend? >> you're dead. you're a dead friend. >> i just want to protect you because gene, i want you to know, if you write that column, i love you.

>> i so appreciate that. i'll write anything you want. >> i'm telling you as a friend. you would never -- dot, dot, dot. >> i'd love to have a nickel for every time i've been told a similar thing by a news source. >> yeah. or a penny. the penny funds social services. mike. >> the point to this, whether it's coded or whatever the message was there, what's fascinating about this, and the reason that "politico" posted them originally went and talked to bob, did this as part of the behind-the-curtain column with jim vandehei is that people read woodward's book, and they wonder how he gets his stuff. there's an amazing fascination with what woodward has seen and learned over the decades. and here, as you point out, because of the e-mail trail, for the first time we're seeing in realtime how bob woodward does his job, which is very fascinating to people who both work in washington and want to work here. so you can think it's clubby or friendly. you can think that it's a little

mobsterlike. whatever you think of it, for the first time we have a window into how gene sperling, bob woodward talk to each other. as we say good-bye here, next month, next week, wednesday at the white house, the president is welcoming the university of alabama bcs champions, roll tide, baby. >> i love it! >> mike, thank you so much. >> every year, mika. >> bob woodward is going to be joining us later. i can't wait. interesting to hear his insight. >> seeing how gene sperling does his job, that's the real window we're getting. >> i've talked to him on a few sunday nights as he's trying to grapple with his kids and the economy. up next -- >> and saving the economy. a and getting his kids to bed. >> i don't know what's harder, teenagers or the economy. teenagers. >> he's going to be on in a little bit. >> also, diplomatic tension overseas as north korea threatens miserable destruction on the united states. >> boy, they must -- the fearless leader must have had a bad basketball game with dennis

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congressman peter king who represents long island is blasting senator marco rubio for raising money on wall street after voting against an emergency relief bill in the wake of hurricane sandy. that's pretty bad, right? congressman king tells "the new york observer" this. "being from new york we're not supposed to be suckers. it's bad enough that these guys voted against it. that's inexcusable enough. but to have the balls to come in and say, we screwed you now make us president?" >> wow. >> wow. >> that's tough talk. kelly o'donnell. take it away. >> foreshadowed indeed by congressman king. when we were in the heat of this battle over hurricane sandy funding, one of the big arguments you had from lawmakers from the northeast is that when tornadoes or floods or other terrible things happened around

the country, they voted to provide that funding, and they felt really sort of abandoned by their colleagues who were making the fiscal argument that some of the things in the bill maybe weren't the best use of the money. and peter king said it then. don't come to new york to fund raise if you're going to turn your back on new yorkers now. he was hot about it then, and he's proving to be consistent. so putting some heat on marco rubio, encouraging donors. and you know, new york is the place they all go. new york, dallas and california, it seems, are always the finance trips. encouraging big donors not to support rubio or others who voted against it, to say don't go against your self-interest and hold their feet to the fire. so it's interesting to see that kind of the fire he had on the house floor when this was all unfolding. he's carried it. he's got a long memory, as some in new york do. >> it's not like he's from kansas. i mean, it's not like marco rubio's from kansas. he's from a state, i'm sure peter king -- >> understands these things. >> over the years peter king has

probably paid, you know, voted for without questioning funding for florida hurricanes. it's fascinating. wow. >> kelly, you're the best. thank you so much. >> thank you, kelly. >> good to be with you. have a great weekend. >> thanks. coming up next, c-pac leaves governor christie off the speaking list prompting outrage some in the republican party. up next, we'll get a full explanation from the head of the american conservative union, al cardenas. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] ok, here's the way the system works.

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joe's made my mama cry all week over the c-pac issue. >> no, no. i told people -- i was misquoted. >> al. >> i told everybody you've been a dear friend of mine for years. >> my mom's darling. son, you see what joe's been saying all week? i said, well, maybe he'll give me a chance to explain. >> mrs. cardenas, i love your son. i've loved your son for decades. >> yes. >> he should just invite chris to the party. >> and me. >> i love him. >> what happened to me? remember i danced at the last one? >> at cpac. >> it didn't work for you? it was fun. >> you did great. you guys are on top of my list, certainly way ahead of peter king, i can tell you that. >> wow. >> oh! >> wait. what list is that? is that a good list to be on the top of or a bad list? >> yeah. you're on a great list, joe. >> okay. >> we've had you a few times. joe, you have a lifetime average

of 92 with the american conservative union. how good is that? >> can you correct you? it's a 95. and not that i'm paying attention. but i think it's a 95. >> all right. >> so al, i guess because i know you so well and, you know, and when i say that, i mean, i remember, we would travel across florida when you were running the party. i'd introduce you. and your same message all the time, a lot of times to audiences that were 100% white, 100% wasp, country club republicans, you were talking about the need to expand the party base. before everybody else was talking about bringing hispanics into the party. you were delivering this message. we have to have a big tent. it's the message that the bushes picked up had they started running for governor and president. >> yeah. >> so i guess it's strange. it seems sort of exclusionary to keep out a guy that's got a 74% approval rating. this isn't -- i'll be honest.

this isn't the al cardenas that i was going around the state of florida with in the 1990s talking about growing the party. >> well, the good news, joe, is we're going to have the most diverse and i think representative view of america this year, cpac. we've got, you know, tim scott, arthur davis, marco rubio. we've got a lot of talented up-and-coming young women. and for the first time ever, i'm highlighting ten young conservatives all across the nation, african-americans, hispanics, women who are out there in their 30s doing great things. an african-american speaker of the house in oklahoma, for example. i think the whole theme is that, you know, the conservative movement needs to grow with the demographic realities of america, and we're going to be painting that picture at cpac. >> but shouldn't you also be reaching out to overweight guys from jersey that got a 74% approval rating? >> ah, that's the question. if i was chairman of the

republican national committee, christie will be one of the first guys on my list. but i'm chairman this time around, joe. the conservative organization. part of the movement. and the cpac, it's like an all-star game for professional athletes. we figure out, who are the 30 people that we thought over the last year were the most serving? we had chris christie last year because we thought he did great things. but you know, we just don't like what folks have done this year. we're in the middle of this conversation about the $85 billion sequester. and congress just adopted a $60 billion stimulus package of which only 10% was for disaster relief. now, i can't for the life of me understand why a good conservative would want to promote the $60 billion pork barrel bill when in reality all we need to do was approve a $10 billion disaster relief bill. like being from florida, that's what we used to do. >> you're talking about sandy, but you've got, with chris

christie, a guy that's conservative fiscally. he's balancing the budgets. he's spending less this year in his '13 budget than the democrats spent in their '08 budget. he's taken on entrenched union interests in jersey where they're the most powerful, and he's won. he's taken on democrats in the senate. he's won. the guy's taken on the teachers unions that wanted to stand in the way of reform. he's won. i understand you disagree with him on what he said on the sandy bill, but is this one issue really what's disqualifying him? because i had heard also, there were people that had concerns about his position on guns. >> joe, we had him last year. his position on guns, his position on social issues was also well known last year. and i had no -- i had no reservations in asking him to be a keynote speaker last year. look. the whole goal here is to invite over a three-day conference the 0 folks who we thought most deserved it this year. that doesn't mean he won't be on

our list next year. but we had to pick 30. now, we've got 300 members of congress. you've got 30 governors, republican governors. you've got a lot of standalone people that folks wanted to hear from. we have mitt romney coming whom no one's heard from since the election. so we've got a lot of these unique opportunities. i think dr. carson's coming. you know, we've chosen 20 elected officials to be on the main stage. we thought we chose the ones that deserved it the most this year. so that's all it is. you know, as i said, if i was the chairman of the republican national committee, i would have made sure he came. >> all right. >> interesting. okay. >> fair enough. >> wouldn't we all rather hear from mitt romney than christie? >> no, absolutely not. >> al, i'm still waiting for my invite. >> i hope your mom's watching. you think she's watching right now? >> yeah, i think she thought today was fair. >> al cardenas, thank you.

>> mom cardenas, i love your son. he's a great guy. appreciate you being with us. coming up, former senator russ feingold will be here. standing by in the green room, david axelrod and melody barnes. >> the only two people more intimidating at the white house than gene sperling. [ male announcer ] julia child became a famous chef at age 51. picasso painted one of his master works at 56. doris taerbaum finished her first marathon at 50. not everyone peaks in their twenties. throughout their lives. passion keeps them realizing possibilities. an ally for real possibilities. aarp. find tools and support at aarp.org/possibilities. ya. alright, another one just like that. right in the old bucket. good toss! see that's much better! that was good.

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boy, this is exciting. on monday's show, nicole wallace

is going to be here. senator kirsten gillibrand. valerie plame and mika brzezinski, all blondes. it's going to be an all-blondes show on monday. >> did you just say that? >> i did. >> it's a fact. he's just being a good journalist. >> is that a problem? >> what's wrong with that? >> seriously? oh, look at that. coming up, david axelrod and melody barnes. you're watching "morning joe." mine was earned in djibouti, africa, 2004. the battle of bataan, 1942. [ all ] fort benning, georgia, in 1999. [ male announcer ] usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaa's commitment to serve the military, veterans, and their families is without equal. begin your legacy. get an auto-insurance quote.

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welcome back to "morning joe." >> look how beautiful. it's beautiful everywhere. >> gorgeous. >> john heilemann's style with us. >> can we go back to that shot? so when are they going to put the barricades up around the washington monument? >> okay, stop it. i know what you're getting at. >> the bricks are already falling off the side of it. after the sequester, the thing is just falling apart. >> parents, do not let your children go inside any of those buildings today. >> joining us on set, former senior adviser to president obama and director of the institute of chicago politics and msnbc contributor, david axelrod. >> he's been running around intimidating everybody. >> i think he's going to say something to threaten me. >> as a friend, don't point at me. >> and bless your heart. >> i just say this as a friend. >> bless your heart. aren't you something?

>> what, are you southern now? >> yeah, that means you're dead and i don't like you. i do. i got that when i went to the south. and i realized i was in big trouble. >> oh, bless your heart. >> former director of the white house domestic policy council and ceo of melody barnes solutions, good name. melody barnes joins us as well. all right. >> how you guys doing? >> we're great. >> good. >> it's friday. it's going into effect. you should be freaking out. >> are you a little nervous? >> about -- >> did you fly in here? the sequester? did you fly in here? >> i snuck in here yesterday. >> there's a chance with all the airline delays you'll never get back to chicago. you might be stuck here. >> no, i rented a car. >> oh. you know, the toll booths aren't working. >> we're going to be walking back. >> just drive through the gates. >> i'm confused. you're kind of making fun of it, too. >> well, look. i think one of the -- i've said this before. one of the dangers of this whole debate is i don't think "a," i think the public has fiscal

crisis fatigue. and i just don't think that they are -- i think they've tuned out to a lot of this. and i think the second piece is that -- and melody knows this well, she's a veteran of government, this isn't going to be a slow-rolling deal. this is not going to be a deal where everything happens at once and people are going to recognize the difference at once. some communities and some sectors will, but not most. >> so melody, i remain an optimist. what i find is every time -- >> when did that happen? >> -- i stop being optimistic -- now, come on. i think you're a guy, at the end of the day, who's going to do the right thing. >> and you like him. >> and i like him. i find every time that the eternal optimist, i finally give up hope, that's when great things happen. and i just feel like, you know, it's one crisis after another. and like david said, we have this fatigue. maybe, just maybe, at the end of all of this, the two sides can come together and have a grand bargain. the president started talking

about it a couple of days ago. >> right. >> maybe that happens after we give up hope that washington can function. >> well, i hope so. like you, i'm an eternal optimist as well. i always see the glass half full. after 20 years in government, i've always seen a solution come at the last minute. so this is highly disappointing, actually. but i know and david knows from our years working in the white house that the president certainly is there. and i also believe that there are people on the other side of the aisle, and once people start to feel this in communities, over time, it will be an accident that happens in slow motion, that that will start to galvanize the country around a serious conversation. and the president has said entitlements and closed loopholes, we've got to take these issues on. we also have to make smart investments at the same time so we can grow our economy and prepare our people for that new economy. it has to happen. otherwise we are rome. >> some people like paul krugman don't believe that medicare and medicaid are a crisis. he says let's wait till 2025,

wait till the programs start going under, then we can address it. just to be clear, that's not the president's position, right? he knows we've got to take care of entitlements before 2025? >> he's started to do it. we started to do it in the affordable care act. >> that, in fact, was one of the rationales behind the affordable care act, to try and reduce the cost of medicare, reduce the cost of health care and extend the life of medicare, did by ten years, as you know, governor romney ran around the country attacking the president for cutting medicare during the campaign. >> the president understands, we still have to go back and take -- hold on. let me ask this because i want to get it on the record here. the president does understand -- and this is -- you know, we've talked privately. >> yes. >> you've assured me for four years that he does understand that we have an entitlement crisis, that it squeezes out funding for defense, that it squeezes out funding for the poor, that it squeezes out funding for education. he does understand that, right?

>> it's beyond that. if you care about medicare, then you have to do some things to make sure that medicare is strong and solvent for the future. he understands that. the question is just how you do it. but the president, even in his proposals, has committed himself to significant reduction in medicare costs. he's committed himself to changing the way we calculate social security. and melody can tell you that that hasn't pleased everyone on our side. >> certainly not. >> but in this discussion, why did we get to this point? i think as you know, joe, that there was a lot of disquiet in the republican caucus about the vote for the tax increases. i think in certain ways the republican leadership felt they had to go through the sequester point because they would have had a rebellion among some of their troops if they hadn't done that. and the question is, where do they go now?

they dug a hole so deep, they can't get back from it. because we do need a balanced answer. we do need a balanced answer. >> do you think we can get a balance add approach if they don't go back and move on it and make some action? now we've had a fiscal cliff issue that was taken care of by all taxes. it looks like the sequester's going to be taken care of by all spending cuts. >> and there were spending cuts a year, a year and a half ago. a trillion dollars in spending cuts. >> do we move forward now to this balanced approach where we close tax loopholes for the super wealthy and we also take care of entitlement programs? >> well, i think -- i hope -- we small fractures have started to appear in the republican position. when the president went to newport -- >> democratic position on entitlements maybe, too? on both sides? >> well, yeah. we had the leadership in the white house with the president in december saying, this deal's still on the table. and we have to start addressing entitlements, and we also have

to close loopholes. he took representative reigle back down to newport news, a republican, that we have to start dealing with more issues and more revenue. lindsey graham said if entitlements are on the table, i'm open to more revenue. so these cracks have started to appear. and i hope that that is the beginning of something larger that brings both sides to the table. and brings a balanced approach. >> did you see the floor yesterday? >> i saw a little bit on the show. >> have you built a bomb shelter yet? >> no, i haven't built a bomb shelter yet. >> al qaeda, the russians, zombies, we're in trouble. >> yeah. >> flesh-eating locusts. >> flesh-eating locusts, frogs flying from heaven. don't you hate those? >> but your hope for a balanced approach, you know what people are thinking? it can't be done. the sequester, sorry, or doomsday devastation machine, was set up so that this would be done. and it's not done. and david, how do both sides not

suffer even more in terms of faith in government and in washington and in congress after missing this deadline. and by the way, being seen on video last night walking home from their long break out of the halls of congress looking happy that they're going to be going home for the weekend. >> well, look. if you look at the numbers of the republicans in congress, they're about as low as they can go. but as you guys have discussed on this program, many of them come from districts that are homogenous where their only concern is a primary challenge. and so they're pinned down in those positions. look, i think part of the issue here is, i don't think they view -- i don't think the leadership of congress viewed -- you say this was the sort of watershed moment. >> wasn't it? >> i see this as part of a continuum, and i think we've got a long way to go before it plays out. >> i don't think it's a watershed moment. i think this is one more chapter that hopefully gets us to a

better conclusion. >> you think about what's happened here in these last two battles, there are two things that are kind of interesting. one is that republicans who had ever accepted a tax increase for a very long time did in december under force, but they did. now you've learned of the sequester thing is that what was supposed to keep this from happening on the republican side was republicans were supposed to be so concerned about defense cuts that they would never let the sequester happen. so we've now learned that republicans will accept the tax increases they did in december, and they now have acknowledged tacitly that they're actually open to defense cuts. they're not -- they did not -- if they had been so paranoid about the defense cuts that it worked the way it was supposed to work, we wouldn't have seen the sequester. you've got a couple of sacred cows that are no longer so sacred. and actually, if you think about it in the long run and you get to the next debt ceiling debate where are the consequences for the economy unlike the sequester which is not going to kill the american economy, where if we

hit the debt ceiling and exceed it, you can imagine as we're moving in a very ugly, very pointless, very frustrating way towards a situation where the stars might align, and we might be able to finally get that grand bargain. >> everybody knows what the solution is. everybody knows that it's a combination of additional revenue that comes through tax reform, closing tax loopholes. boehner said last year that he could identify $800 billion in loopholes that he was willing to close. and some entitlement reform. everybody understands what the deal is. the question is whether i think it's mostly on the republican side, whether they can manipulate the politics of their own caucus to get there. >> but david and melody, tax reform is not going to get us to where we need to go to save entitlements. >> and no one's saying that it is. >> but the president's saying -- >> here's the thing, though. >> the president is saying some

reform on medicare, but you look at what allen binder said, what other economists are saying, democrats are wrong when they say we can take care of the entitlement crisis by raising taxes. that's not the answer. >> joe, no one is saying that. what we're saying is that if you're going to ask democrats to vote for entitlement reforms, that you have to at the same time have revenue increases on the other side of the equation in order to move forward. >> jump ship together. think about it. a year, year and a half ago, people would have said immigration reform, absolutely not going to happen. things change. it is a chemical situation. the election happened. people are looking at demographics. >> can you not say a chemical situation, john heilemann? start shuffling through his pockets. >> sweating. >> it does change, and i think this, as we've said, is the chapter as the american public gets galvanized around this, that we'll start to contribute to the challenge. >> joining us from washington, pulitzer prize-winning associate editor of "the washington post,"

bob woodward along with david axelrod, melody and heilmann. bob, good to see you this morning. >> thank you. >> what is the follow-up? we've been questioning the e-mails between you and gene sperling and whether or not regret means threat. and i want to know how you got there in terms of that was a watch-out point of view statement. >> well, it was not -- i never said it was a threat. "politico" was doing the story about the column that i wrote on sunday, calling out the administration, making it clear from the reporting and finally to jay carney's credit that the idea for the sequester came from the white house and that they've changed some of the arrangements. and so i mentioned that i got an e-mail from somebody like lots of things in washington then, the details leaked out. as david axelrod knows, gene sperling's one of the really

decent, hardworking people i've dealt with the obama white house and axelrod a lot. it's just unusual to say when there's not -- this wasn't a factual disagreement. this was a disagreement about -- i was challenging them on something, and gene said we're not going to see eye to eye, and you're going to regret staking out this claim. axelrod and i have disagreed many times, but he's never said you're going to regret reaching a conclusion that we don't like. >> he doesn't say that to you because he says that to me all the time. >> i'm still waiting for you to regret something. >> all right. >> keep waiting. >> bob, let me ask you this. given all the reaction this has gotten and given the nature of the e-mails as you read through them, do you think, because you're not, you know, a young reporter starting out who might be intimidated, you're not. you're bob woodward.

do you think you might have overstepped the way you described the scenario? >> no. i mean, the e-mails speak for themselves. >> they do. >> people have characterized them. but the issue here is, this is where we get tangled up in ourselves is the automatic spending cuts and the sequester and how we got there and what it's going to mean to people. and it's often a technique employed by white houses either unintentionally or intentionally to say oh, let's make the conduct of the press the issue rather than what they did. to people out in the real world, the issue is these automatic spending cuts and the human toll they are going to bring to many people and many families. >> you know, bob, i want to talk about actually the news of the day that's actually important. the sequester. but before i do that, david axelrod, he's a small person. >> what? >> he wants to -- he wants to

get involved in the mundane sort of machinations of -- >> the minutia. the minutia. >> he's a man who lives in the weeds. who lives in the weeds. >> read all of his books. david, i want to ask you from your perspective and then you can take it. because you were a journalist. >> yes, i was. >> you know both sides of this. >> i do. >> take it away. >> first of all, one of the reasons i became a journalist was because of bob woodward. >> i bet you're sorry now. >> uh-oh. >> bob woodward inspired a whole generation. >> don't blame me. >> exactly. >> a whole generation of journalists. in fact, you talked yesterday -- >> that seems like an awful lot to place on bob's shoulders. >> i was the city hall bureau chief of "the chicago tribune" when i was 25 years old, and the mayor threatened to have me ejected from city hall because she didn't like the coverage i was doing. so i know what intimidation is. and bob, you know, the headline in "the washington post," your newspaper, was "woodward says that he was threatened by the

white house." >> but i never have. come on. you know that. no. >> they got the impression from what you said that you felt you were being threatened, and you just read to the "politico" one line from that e-mail. when the full e-mails came out, they were as cordial as can be. his e-mail was cordial, and your response was cordial. so if you felt threatened, why didn't you say to gene, don't threaten me? >> bob? >> no, i did not feel threat -- you know, what i have said, david, come on. you are putting words in my mouth. i said i don't think this is the way to operate. and you and i have had many discussions. you've never said to me, oh, you're going to regret doing that. am i correct? >> yes, but this was a specific discussion about a specific point you had raised. it seemed like gene, thin that e-mail, was very polite in the way that he pushed back on it. >> you should have heard the -- >> i'm not putting words in your mouth, bob. it's your newspaper that said, you said you were threatened. >> so let me step in here, bob.

>> sure. >> as i said for some time, we've just been looking at what happened in this chain of e-mails. this comes after the white house pushing back pretty hard on you for quite some time because the president said he had nothing to do with the sequester. you pointed out in your piece that he did. the white house started pushing back furiously. gene called you up. and we love gene here. but it was a 30-minute call. as i said to david, i mean, let's just not pretend here. that when you say the word "regret," and this whole "i said it as a friend," we'd always do that in washington. you'd put your arm around somebody, you'd bring them close and you'd say, hey, listen, jim. we're good friends. you know i love you, but i've just got to tell you, buddy, if you go out there and put this amendment on my bill, you're going to regret it. i'm only saying it because i love you. but you're sending the message, watch out. duck. >> exactly. and this is the code. now, look.

gene is not a threatening sort of person, and i've never said this was a threat. the point is, what really happened here? we're at one of the pivot points again in washington about budget and fiscal issues, god help us that we're there again, but we are. and these automatic spending cuts which really don't deal with the problem of entitlements, and that's very, very significant. these automatic spending cuts. everyone says are the worst are irrational. i mean, how do we get to the point where we have the government, our government is the biggest obstacle to continue in the economic recovery. that is the reality everyone's facing. >> mika, can we get a shot of david's face? did you see that look on his face when he asked the question? i thought he was going to follow

through on the threat. >> these are not the right way to move forward. the president agrees with that. bob, from the very beginning, he said we need a balanced way forward that includes both cuts, and that includes cuts in entitlements, and revenues. and that's exactly what he wants to do now. and to say -- i think what gene was reacting to was that you suggested he had moved the goalposts. the goalposts have been in the same place from the very beginning. >> no, they have not. because in 2011, he made a deal, biden and senate minority leader mcconnell, made the deal that we won't have to go back for more borrowing authority negotiations in the election year 2012, something very important to the president and to you and to the white house staff. and the agreement was then there would be, in the sequester, which we're now dealing with, no tax increases. it is a lay-down case that he

has change -- the president has changed the argument here. now, is that a felony? is that a big deal? no. but it's the reality. >> it's not a felony or a big deal, it's just not true. the fact is that the president said that the sequester was never meant to go forward. and the president said the way to solve it has -- >> oh, but it has. >> -- is includes revenue and entitlement reforms. as we've discussed here, that's the only way that it can move forward. he still believes that. that's what he said all through 2011, 2012 and 2013. the goalposts are right where he put them in the first place. >> bob, final word. >> the goalposts got moved, and they know it, and that's what they're upset about. look, he made a deal in 2011. he got an immediate benefit. the republicans are out there saying, okay, we'll go along with the sequester. they are to blame. everyone's to blame.

but the sequester is a giant nightmare. and it could have a real impact on the economy and people's lives as the president has said. and that's what this is about, not some kind of e-mail exchange i had with somebody in the white house. >> bob, thank you so much for being on the show. we greatly appreciate it. >> thank you. >> you know, we consider you a great friend of the show. i just want to say. i really do. i think you'd better write a really nice story about me, being a champion of budget restraint. really, i'm your friend. >> and i'm thinking -- >> i don't think you're going to print it. don't you think he'll regret it? >> i do. i do. >> listen, but i love you. and listen, you're welcome back any time even if you don't. i just kind of think you'd probably better. >> front page. >> front page. bob, thank you so much. >> thanks a lot. >> have a great weekend. >> david, how you doing over there? >> great.

>> grumpy. you are grumpy. >> i'm not grumpy at all. bob was the one who raised the e-mails in the first place. >> david -- >> can you just at least admit this? in washington a lot of times, if you want to get something done, you don't get in somebody's face and say let me tell you. you go up to them, you say, listen, we're friends. we know how this works. >> what is gene sperling going to do to bob woodward? >> oh, my god, sperling? >> now, now, now. >> bob woodward who faced down as a young man h.r. halderman is worried, feels intimidated by gene sperling? >> do not diss gene sperling. he is a fierce, fierce man. >> he's the albert schweitzer of economists. >> there you go. >> he's the taupeony soprano of politics. >> do you know what kind of threat that is? we'll be right back. we've got so much going on. chuck todd's here. we've got the general coming, david gregory. >> blah, blah, blah. we'll be right back.

>> stay around and you'll regret it. [ dad ] find it? ya. alright, another one just like that. right in the old bucket. good toss! see that's much better! that was good. you had your shoulder pointed, you kept your eyes on your target. let's do it again -- watch me. just like that one... [ male announcer ] the durability of the volkswagen passat. pass down something he will be grateful for. good arm. that's the power of german engineering. ♪ back to you. ♪ [ female announcer ] some people like to pretend a flood could never happen to them. and that their homeowners insurance protects them. [ thunder crashes ] it doesn't. stop pretending. only flood insurance covers floods. ♪ visit floodsmart.gov/pretend to learn your risk.

it's time for "get to know the sequester." ♪ >> pre-sequester. lincoln memorial. post-sfeser. lincoln's statue is laid off. "get to know the sequester." >> oh, man. >> there it is. he's not in there. >> so pretty. >> with us from washington, moderator of "meet the press," david gregory, political director and host of "the daily rundown," chuck todd. guys, how's it going, man? >> we're still here. >> i want to hear more of axelrod. >> awesome. >> how you doing, david? >> i'm great. >> you're grumpy today. >> i'm great. >> you think he's grumpy?

>> i do. >> i feel great. what are you guys talking about? >> so david gregory, how's washington? can you report post-sequester? >> it like "the day after," that movie? >> are tidal weae aal waves come potomac? >> everything is still here. >> except congress. they went home for the weekend. >> exactly. but the congressional leaders are here, and they're going to go down to the white house for what promises to be a productive meeting this morning. >> but do both sides ever sell this, on defense cuts? lindsey graham yesterday on the house floor talking about al qaeda and john mccain quoting chairm chairman? >> a lot of the conservative critics are all over the place. on the one hand, they're issuing these warnings and the speaker of the house said this would threaten national security. and then you have other republicans saying that these are, you know, these dire

warnings are unfounded. the reality is that neither side wants this. but the politics of this at the moment tend to favor the republicans in that there's no immediate effect of this. this will take time. not everyone's going to be affected by this. and look, there's a lot of americans who hear this and say, really? 2% of the budget, you can't cut 2% of the budget? i think we can live with that. now, there's lots of people who will be affected, whether it's by head start or furloughed employees in the military. so there are certain pockets of the country that will be impacted, and there will certainly be an outcry. my sense is wherever that outcry gets the loudest, whoever feels more pain, maybe we see some movement as a result of that. but it's not going to be immediate. this is not the fiscal cliff. >> and chuck todd, it's not going to be widespread. it's not like the government shutdown of 1995. this is about, if you believe the cpo numbers, $44 billion out of $3.6 trillion, that's a penny on the dollar. some people will be affected.

some people will be hurt. but overall, it may not have the political impact that the president and the democrats may think it will have. >> not only that, you know, there was -- the way the white house was spinning this this week, they were almost making an assumption that government workers were just going to drop their hands and stop working and not work as hard and all of this. >> meat inspector were going to start spitting in food. >> the other part of this, there's a lot of agency heads who frankly never thought sequester would kick in who are going to keep biding time. they're not going to make certain whacks. they're probably going to delay, delay, delay. i think it's going to be less than a bumpy feel. yes, some places are going to feel it more than others. and there's going to be that uneven feeling. but i think there's a chance it's even less than people think because you've got a lot of agencies still banking on sequester being rolled back sometime between now and, say, july of this year before we get

to the end of the fiscal year. what a ridiculous spectacle this week. can i just say this? just a ridiculous spectacle. >> it's ridiculous. >> there was not a single serious meeting. >> not one. >> if sequester is so bad, not a single serious proposal or counterproposal from the white house or congressional republicans. i mean, come on. this is awful. >> let me ask everybody around the table, and you guys in washington. i've been reading "the wall street journal's" been talking about this for some time that actually the president has much more discretion than we're hearing. that he actually has the ability, like the department of hhs has ability to move around a certain percentage of their dollars. and he's got the flexibility to mitigate this damage. of course, the conservatives will argue, he doesn't want to do that because he wants the cuts to seem as painful as possible. but how much flexibility does the president have moving forward to mitigate some of the sharper edges of the sequester? anybody know? >> melody, you're a -- >> you're the expert, melody.

>> melody barnes solutions. >> i know it's not fair. >> last night when i was rifling through. >> that's melody. >> sort of shaped on graham rudman which allowed, back in '86, allowed agencies to move the money around so they could make sure that essential services like making sure that our meat is safe could -- they could move the money from nonessential services to these sort of front-line services. is that the case? >> well, it's a highly technical process, as i understand it. >> right. which works really good on morning television. >> right. which is why i'm not going to go into the highly technical process. >> oh. >> i know, i'm sorry. >> do we have a white board? >> but agencies, there is some level of flexibility, but at the same time, they have to look at their contracts. they have to look at the kinds of responsibilities that they have, the commitments that have been made, and that in and of itself starts to shrink the parameters of how you can make and where you can make cuts.

and where the greatest impact will be on people so that you aren't hurting the most vulnerable people. the president isn't sitting in the oval office saying, let's increase the pain as much as we possibly can. i, the leader of this country, for the sake of a political argument, but at the same time, we've got to figure out a way to do this given the kinds of contracts and commitments that departments and agencies already have. >> well, there won't be the immediate pain that some anticipated. there is, as i said, a slow-rolling issue here that will get more severe as time goes on. so you can ameliorate things in the short term. if this were to stand in the long term, it would be a big problem. >> if it were to stand -- if congress were to come back and increase funding in some of these areas. john. >> yeah. i want to ask david and chuck, first i'll quote the great mike barnicle who said sequester is latin for incompetence. let's start with that. but let me ask you guys, coming into this, there were a lot of debates about -- coming into the

sequester about who had political lemppli political leverage. republicans thought they had a certain amount of leverage. now we're past this day, and we're heading into some other things, right? the continuing resolution, the debt ceiling coming up over the course of the next couple months. what happens in terms of leverage now going forward? who has the whip hand coming out of this and heading into those big battles? >> i don't happen to think it's clear. because the one thing that republicans have proven here is that they may not like it, but it's at least on their side of the column. if they want to force the president's hand on more spending cuts, the sequester, the white house's idea to force an outcome different from this is what they can allow to prevail. they're not going to win points in terms of the standing of congress, but the feeling is that they can withstand that because because some of their individual members can be strengthened if the president comes after them. i think the bigger fight moves now to the funding of the government for the rest of the

year. and does the president want to kind of turn the levers on shutting down the government partially to call republicans out, knowing that, whether it's on tax reform or tax increases, generally there's a lot of evidence in the polling that suggests the public supports him on doing that. and indeed, if you look at tax reform, republicans were for this a couple months ago, getting more revenue out of tax reform. but they refused to do it unless it's, you know, for the money to be paid to then turn around and lower rates. so i think that there's some room to make the republicans hu heard on this. >> yeah, the white house thinks they have public opinion on their side, and obviously the evidence is there that they do, but i think they've made a fundamental miscalculation on where the republicans are because you've got to go back to the republican leaders. john boehner, mitch mcconnell and john cornyn. they cannot at all look like they're compromising on anything having to do with taxes to replace any of the spending.

if they do, they will be out of a job. there's not a, they could be out of a job. it's politically risky. no, they will lose. they're both up. they had front row seats to paul and cruz in their own states. that's how they're operating. they're handcuffed. and if the white house doesn't see that, then, you know, they're not going to get what they think they're going to get out of this. and maybe they think, okay, they'll take it to 2014. that's a long way from now, and that's a lot of supposed pain that they say is going to be out there. >> as melody brought up earlier, people like lindsey graham and other republicans, and i certainly would support it, too, closing loopholes, fine, but we're not going to have unilateral disarmament again. we're not going to do what happened during the debt -- the fiscal cliff debate where it was all taxes. yes, we'll close the loopholes, but we're not going to do it for some stopgap measure. you want to talk about a big grand bargain, then yeah, let's pile it all on.

but the political reality is, you're exactly right. republicans in the house, republicans in the senate, they can't do this without having a much bigger grand bargain. >> david gregory, thank you very much. you have an exclusive this sunday on "meet the press." >> it's exciting. >> what is it? >> gene sperling? >> gene sperling. >> gene sperling. i do have gene sperling, but i've got the speaker of the house to top off the program on reaction to what happens today at the white house. >> that's pretty good. >> and how we get past this. >> that's pretty exciting. >> keep them separated, man. >> david axelrod, thank you. >> good to be with you. >> good luck getting back to chicago. >> yes, yes. >> chuck todd, thank you so much. see you at 9:00 eastern time on msnbc. >> hey, chuck, we've been a little late the past couple weeks. >> that's all right. i take it out -- you know what happens, i take it out of jansing, and we pay it forward. and so i just tell her to blame you. so jansing's going to be all after you.

>> it's the circumstanle of lif. >> goth that, chris? it's all joe's fault. >> it's all my fault. >> former senator russ feingold joins us. more "morning joe" in just a moment.

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rudy gay scoring, i think tayshaun prince and tony allen can take away from opponents with their defense. the style they play, again, that kind of fits in as we get work from carl pietrus. i do think they have a chance to be successful without rudy gay. let's move on. the denver nuggets. 24-3 at home. they are tied with miami heat in terms of road wins and home losses, excuse me, the spurs -- >> that's hilarious. after the show today, joe and i will be holding a live twitter chat with our followers. i'm nervous. we'll be answering your questions. i can see you guys tend to really cut to the chase on things here. on everything from politics to

how we get "morning joe" on the air each day. you can send in questions now by using the hash tag #askmojoe and following us on twitter @morning underscore joe. russ feingold joins the conversation next. weep keep it right here on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] this is bob,

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>> you've gone all west coast on us. >> the weather is very nice. you guys come on too early for the west coast. >> we're going to take care of that. our friends at comcast are taking care of that right now. >> we have to. >> let's talk, first of all, i want to get into the buck, but really quickly, look at what's happening in washington. you look at the sequester. you worked with republicans, actually, on cutting spending, on being more rational in our budgetary approach. what are your thoughts today? >> well, i work with you. >> right. >> in the gold old days when we were there, the thing that was different, joe, and i think you'll agree with this, the public was engaged in the idea of bringing down the deficit. they didn't have this division where one side said, you can't raise taxes. and the other side said we have to increase spending. we had this sort of almost unfriendly competition to see who could be tougher on the deficit. it was sort of fun. you know, why do we have a helium program for dirigibles? why do we have a tea-tasting board? why do we have a woollen mohair

program for the troops' uniforms that aren't wool anymore? we need to be in a situation where the public is engaged with members of congress and the president in finding even the small things. yes, the big things matter. but that creates the energy and the enthusiasm that leads to the kind of deal that we're going to need to actually get this done. >> no doubt about it. let's talk about why america is sleeping in the post-9/11 world. you say it's not just about slogans. what are we getting wrong? >> well, the problem is since 9/11, we obviously took an enormous blow. i've been on this show talking about this. it seems after ten years we occasionally pay attention what's happening overseas, but we tend to go back to sleep and focus almost exclusively to domestic issues. it's a cliche, but we need to learn to walk and chew gum at the same time. >> you and i three years ago were talking about afghanistan. talking about spending $2 billion a week. talking about this endless war. we're three years past that. >> that one should have ended a long time ago.ago.

we can't shift from north africa to syria, as important as it is, the north africa situation continues. i think the administration was too quick to say bin laden and everybody had their own day, but i was shocked to see the republicans never mention anything until benghazi. once that ended, they're not interested in it anymore. we have to maintain a focus. >> how do we maintain that focus, though? >> as a people and as leaders in our government have to make it a main part of that agenda. they can't be criticized for what's happening in malli or egypt. they need to be given credit for that. my book is about the fact that our system rewards people for basically not knowing much about the rest of the world. >> where do you stand on drones? >> i think drones are essential, but we need a legal regime, a real law monitored by the judiciary. it can't just be the president and a couple advisers looking at the list.

>> were you surprised by the justice department memo? >> very disturbed. i think the legal counsel memos need to come out and the public needs to be the legal basis. i think it can be done in a lawful way, but it has to be precisely related to an enemy and not a broader definition of people that might not like us. that's one of mice worries about how this goes. >> i want to understand more about what you're saling, islamists, before anyone heard of al qaeda, before al qaeda came together, the algerian islamists were engaged in a brightal civil war with the algerian government. are you arguing that america needs to be engaged with islamists around the world, so if that's the case, you and john mccain are completely on the same page. >> we're not on the same page on this, and let me take your exact example.

here's the fact that people don't realize. the folks in algeria went somewhere first. they went to afghanistan. they were part of the mojadean -- he was in afghanistan at the time, so it has tore tailored to al qaeda, but this is al qaeda, and we have to realize it. it's not just any islamic group. >> the book "while america sleeps, a wake-up call for the post-9/11 era" is now out in paperback. >> we want to teach at stanford. you want to invite us out? >> well, i don't have the authority. but it's a great place. give you a plug for marquette. >> i don't want to go to wisconsin. >> just wait a few weeks.

>> you don't have the authority to let news your own classroom? >> no, i had to start my class that the one thing out of order is discussing the roe bowl, which you may recall was wisconsin versus stanford. >> thank you, russ. >> we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. omnipotent of opportunity. you know how to mix business... with business. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go. you can even take a full-size or above. and still pay the mid-size price. i could get used to this. [ male announcer ] yes, you could business pro. yes, you could. go national. go like a pro. ya. alright, another one just like that. right in the old bucket. good toss! see that's much better! that was good. you had your shoulder pointed,

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coming up next, the sequester does almost nothing to tackle the biggest drivers of deficits in our economy. >> have you noticed richard wolffe throat, he's having to clear his throat. >> yes, he's concerned. eugene robinson joins us next on "morning joe." [ man ] i've been out there most of my life. you name it...i've hooked it. but there's one... one that's always eluded me. thought i had it in the blizzard of '93. ha! never even came close. sometimes, i actually think it's mocking me. [ engine revs ] what?! quattro!!!!! ♪

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good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast, 5:00 a.m. on the west coast. time to wake up.

just drag yourself out of bed. say good morning. you could be here and you're there. back with us on set, richard, john, and in washington kelly o'donnell. today $85 billion in across the board cuts hit federal agencies and the pentagon. the two competing plans to avert the sequester failed in the congress today. as was expected, in fact the democrats' plan didn't get a single vote from the republicans across the aisle. though the budget cuts are widespread, the biggest drivers of debt in the economy are largely spared. according to "wall street journal," the government spent over 50 percent last year on social security, medicaid, and interest on the federal debt. most of the entitlement programs are nearly untouched.

it's expected to grow 40% over the next decade. in just three yours the social security fund is forecast to burn through its reserves and medicare funding to pay for hospital bills is projected to run out by 2024. michael bloom better is calling for more leadership from the white house. >> i think the mistake that was made here is we let congress write the health care bill so it's a collection of special interests, you got yours, he got his, and i voted for both of thousands because i got mine. it doesn't make sense, nobody has ever read the bill. it's not going to work. the same is true for dodd/frank. congress shouldn't be writing specific laws. the president should send a specific law created by experts in the field, and then sell it to them. they may have to tinker a bit here and there to get some votes, but fundamentally the leadership has to come from 1600

pennsylvania avenue and not the other way around. the reason why the "wall street journal" points this out, the reason why we go from one stupid exercise to another is because republicans spent the last decade spending more on entitlements, the $7 trillion drug benefit plan. democrats don't want to touch it. when republicans touch it, they get killed. when democrats touch it, they get killed. >> why can't they do it together. >> we're cutting discretionary domestic spending, cutting defense, which i want to cut defense, but let's cut defenses in a smart way, but we won't do it, because everybody is afraid to talk about entitlements. >> well, but i think there can be a conversation about entitlements. we didn't have to go through this exercise, this -- this silly sequester. >> it seems like both sides overshot. >> i think there was a biggers

deal to be had. they didn't have it, so we kind of rolled our way to this point where we're doing gratuitous harm to american citizens. it's kind of silly. and how it works in local news, the major newspapers sometimes get stuff, and then the local newspapers has run some of those articles, and the this is what people across the country -- >> the numbs gets a press release from the white house -- >> stop, i did not say that. >> i am, but if you're a local news guy or not or newswoman, news director, it goes from the without unfiltered, and fear and loathing in middle america. >> this is what people will get. >> it provides a hot meal to 80 seniors, but the possible sequestration could bring that all to a halt.

>> fayetteville will lose $145,000, money that helps level the playing field for students in poverty. special education would take a $91,000 hit. >> one of the biggest impacts to the city and frankly all of liberty county are civiliandowns. thousands of people get a paycheck because they work at ft. stewart. >> reporter: more than 3,000 children take part of the head start program, but like many agencies it's been bracing for cuts from the sequester. >> if inspectors are pulled from the line, it could slow production, that means you'll by paying more for your meat. >> if this would go away, you're talking a lot of people that would not have a nice hot male. >> does that take you back? >> your hot meals are going to be gone. >> and pay more for your meat. >> all these things are true. >> no, they're not. >> but the point is it shouldn't. >> no, they're not. listen -- >> joe -- >> c'mon, let's bottom line it. it's stupid cuts, mika.

>> exactly. >> but the $85 billion in stupid cruz. cbo said it will only by $44 billion in stupid cuts. >> it's stupid cuts. >> 44 billion of the 3.6 trillion budget in stupid cuts that's one penny out of a dollar of federal spending, will probably survive considering the federal spending -- sh -- >> but it's the penny we spent to inspect your meat. >> john heilman, so many people say that our government is not efficient. maybe not 99 cents out of the dollar is inefficient, but this one penny out of a dollar keeps our planes in the air, keeps our meats safe and cheap, feeds seniors, takes care of young children. >> meals on wheels. >> hot meals on wheels. lindsey says this one penny protects us from al qaeda. >> head start. >> the soviets from dennis rodman.

this one penny, if we could just hearts in the p s is i s is i s, it could be a efficient government. this is a dreadful penny to cut. with all the wasteful spending, why cut this one penny? >> why can't they get together and make real cuts. the republicans are trying to make the president do it. why don't they get together? does anyone want to answer? you want to. okay. >> if this one penny they're going to cut is so dreadful i'll cut the one penny. if you believe like the president believes that this 44 billion out of 3.6 trillion is going to destroy national defense, is going to endanger

americans' life and seniors will be thrown out into the streets, don't you say, you know what? if you guys don't have the courage to save seniors and keep meat prices low, i'll step in and do it. >> you're using a very good illustration to make the point that there's a lot of scare talk around this. it's a political exercise in which people are trying to drive rhetorical points. this is about a bigger thing, and the bigger thing is, you know, this is i think not just about this fight that's coming to at least a temporary conclusion today, but about the fights to come over the debt ceiling and the continuing resolution, the president is playing a hard game of politics right now, to try to get the whip hand over republicans. republicans are playing another hard game with the president. this is not about that one penny on the dollar, and i think you're vividly illustrating the fact that's a rhetorical -- but its about a serious thing, about you who will have political advantage forward over the

course of the next few months. >> the president right now is -- if you're a politician, this is what you do. the president is getting his sea legs. he's got the republicans on their heels. he's bearing down on them. he could give them relief, do the cuts himself, he's staying after them here. he's not talking about marriage equality, putting them on their heels there. this week conservatives have been put in the position to be against the civil rights act of 1965. >> domestic violence. >> last night they were against violence against women. >> right. >> rich lowery with "the national review" wrote a column the party right now we're sort of in the ditch. just find an old blanket on the side of the road and pull it over you, because we're going to be in the ditch for a while. but republicans -- some of the wounds are self-inflicted, but

the president is on a run, and he's not get to let them off the matt. >> kelly, i say, okay, how come you won't talk? it's because we won't raise taxes. the president wants to close loopholes. i will ask in that same conversation, are you for closing loop holes. they'll say yes. why then can't they come up with the cuts they want, since they need so badly to be done. i don't understand. >> closing the loophole is something that john boehner said he is for. the thing that really counts in terms of how they negotiate is they don't want to spend it now in this conversation. they're prepared to do it in a bigger conversation about reforming the tax code, about trying to change the structure of entitlements for the long term. they say they're willing to do it, but not for a smaller package. when you go back to where we were in the summer of 2011 when all this was coming into being, people didn't believe this would actually happen.

here we are, we've sort of worn down people's expectations about what government can or cannot do, what congress will or won't do, and they've let the 11th hour come and nearly go. instead of the usual hectic pace to resolve it it was a big, mheh. >> this party is so intent on making responsible fiscal decisions. these cuts are random across the board and some are cruel and ridiculous, which you found out was less than what we were talking about. >> the cruellest spinning. >> why can't they bring something to the table? why would they put this on the table when the president is only proposing to close loopholes which they agree with? >> because republicans afford a -- approach. >> whoa. worlds are colliding. >> you guys want to finish?

>> please. i want to hear. >> that's some phlegm. >> so republicans support a balanced approach. >> mr. wolfe? we have all day. we have three hours. no, i really -- i'm truly curious. >> the republicans have taken the president that he supports a balanced approach. what have we had? we've had the fiscal cliff and now we have sequester. the president decided and congress decided that the fiscal cliff, instead of being a balance of tax increases and spending cuts would be 100% tax increases. so now we move to the next step in the process, and this is the sequester. that has always been about spending cuts. >> yeah. >> and so if our last exercise,

budgetary exercise was 100% tax increases, let's make this all about spending cuts, the two do balance each other, and we move forward, and then let's talk about a balanced approach where we'll close the loop holes, which i support, but mr. president, you say you support reforming medicare, medicaid and social security. if you really support that, we'll do that all together. >> i don't think that the republicans do support that. you have to explain to me. >> the republicans do support that. >> really? >> yeah, they do support that. i don't think the president sports entitlement reform. i mean, so here we are and we're going around in circles. >> richard wolffe is there, his throat is cleared of a massive clump of phlegm besides -- >> oh, gross now. >> well, thank you. >> not you. >> okay, stop. stop. >> so oop perplexed.

first of all, let's all agree that not only are they getting the whole approach wrong, and when i mean they, we're talking about reps in washington, but they're also getting themselves wrong. the sequester was designed to force themselves into a position, and they didn't even believe themselves, didn't believe their own deadlines, didn't agree with their own motives. if republicans are not willing to cut defense cuts, then the sequester was structured all wrong, and they don't know who they are. if you don't know who you are, how do you get to a deal? you said something about the president wanting 100% tax rises, all taxes in terms of the revenue -- >> i was talking about the fiscal cliff was 100% -- >> i think it's a mistake to pull those things apart. the whole strategy was to deal with the bush tax cuts and spending and lump them together, so in splitting it apart, we've ended up in this limbo. coming up on "morning jo"

celebrity chef tom colicchio. unacceptable, tom's new film takes a look at this fact. and general odierno joins us, but bill has the forecast. >> last night a fire caused evacuations in southern california. this is supposed to be the end of the rainy season. it was scary of the possibility of things to come. this is in riverside county, just a good safe distance away from los angeles and also san diego, but some homes were threatened and evacuations took place. that fire is only 20% contained. it's going to be warm and windy out there today, so good luck with the firefighters on the scene, about 200 of them. just a few snow showers, it doesn't feel like march around much of the country. if you're in the blue or pink,

you're below freezing windchills, so a chilly begins to march. here's your weekend forecast. today, no real big travel issues out there. as we go through your saturday and sunday, we continue very chilly. the next storm to watch actually comes into montana and the dakotas starting on sunday. this has a chance to be a significant snowstorm as it moves across the country. these are just rough estimates, but here's a general idea of the timing of this storm. sunday in the northern plains, dips down tuesday somewhere into the tennessee valley and could develop into a stronger storm tuesday night. in other words, travel issues the middle of next week, especially the mid-atlantic. of course, next week i'll try to pinpoint who has to deal with what, including the possibility of heavy snow. we have a shot of a chilly new york city. skating rink is still open. it's going to be a cold weekend.

you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ dad ] find it?

ya. alright, another one just like that. right in the old bucket. good toss! see that's much better! that was good. you had your shoulder pointed, you kept your eyes on your target. let's do it again -- watch me. just like that one... [ male announcer ] the durability of the volkswagen passat. pass down something he will be grateful for. good arm. that's the power of german engineering. ♪ back to you.

here we are, unable to make sure that these young men and women who are serving and in harm's way have the equipment and the training and everything they need to defend this nation. we are doing the men and women who are serving this nation a great disservice. and the president did them a disservice when he said in the campaign, not to worry, not to worry, sequestration won't

happen. general odierno, the chief of staff for the army, a man who's got decorations from here to here, said that he cannot replace the men and women who are serving in afghanistan under this sequestration, because he doesn't have the ability to train their replacements. isn't that alarm enough for us? >> here he is, u.s. army chief of staff general ray odierno. decorated from here to look and looking good. welcome to the show. >> thank you. >> the one thing we have worried about is the cuts to defense. not saying that defense could use some serious trimming and streamlining, but they cuts that good into effect officially, what are you looking at? >> there's a couple things, not only sequestration, but we also have a problem with the continuing resolution. the fact that we haven't had a budget this year also causes us about a $6 billion problem.

it's a combination of $12 billion in cuts and sequestration, plus a $6 billion problem because of the continuing resolution didn't put the money in the right places for us in the army. it's both of those things, so first of all it's about -- i haven't had a budget since i've been chief of staff, 18 months, so we keep working on continuing resolutions. so that doesn't allow me to plan. >> supposed to give you a budget, where would you put the blame on that? >> its think it's coming to agreement in congress, i mean, and we submit a budget every year, they run it through committee, and actually the defense department budget was agreed upon, but they couldn't agree on the rest of the government's budget, so they went to a continuing resolution this year. and so this causes problems for us, because it's a mismatch in the way the money is allocated. we can't move it. we're not allowed to move it under the auspices of a

continuing resolution. then you put on top of that sequestration, so in the last six months of this year, i have a $12 billion problem just on our operations and maintenance accounts. that's what was being referenced there. so we'll have to stop training this year, because we're going to put all our funds to those currently in afghanistan and fund them, because they're in harm's way, obviously. so what i worry about is will we be able to train those that come the time after that. we'll have to stop training for the rest of this year. >> what are the immediate impacts of sequestration that you can see in the department of defense in the next week, two, three weeks? >> it probably will -- there won't be much in the next couple weeks. where you'll see it is probably away the first of april, 251,000 in the army, 251,000 people furloughs, probably about 8,000 jobs that will be lost.

we'll have to cut training, cut support to our installations and our families. all of those things will begin to happen probably around the first of april. there's a couple things that can happen. by the 27th of march is when the continuing resolution ends. that helps us a bit if they fix that problem, but we still have sequestration. and in '13, we have no say in where those cuts go. they are directed in '13 with sequestration. beyond that, we can do some planning and potentially try to work through hout we best manage the dollars we're given. >> richard? >> general, some people, actually some people around this table this morning and probably a lot of people who you talked to or maybe your liaison people talking to congress, they don't seem to be taking it seriously. you're being alarmist or stuff you can shuffle around, right? it's a big army.

you have lots of money here and lots of money there, so help me understand. when you say it kicks in in april, is it really april? is it bad planning and no way to run a war? is it really going to deteriorate what you can do in the battlefield? >> part of this is how sequestration works. so in '13 the cuts are directed. i have no say. i can't move them around. it is part of every line item is designated a certain percentage. whatever the final number ends up being, so i can't move it around to fit what we're doing in '13. beyond '13, if we submit that budget, if it gets approved, and then i throw on top of that the inning resolution, which provides a shortfall, now you're talking a lot of money. it's in very specific accounts. we procurement accounts to buy weapons and systems, operational

systems which pay foss salaries, and training and maintaining equipment. it's in those accounts where you have shortfalls. i can't move money because of the continuing resolution and because of the way sequestration is enacted. that causes part of the problem's well. >> melody? >> general, i'm wondering about the ripple effect. some of what i've read is you will have to adjust medical care for those enlisted and their families. we've talked about the furloughs that will take place. do you have any sense of what the ripple effect will be for your people, not to mention the communities in which you're located? >> the problem we have is, although these large cuts are in the last six months of '13, where they really start to affect is '14 and '15. i'm going to have to cut 37,000 hours worth of flying hours for helicopters pilots. that's somewhere between 500 and 750 pilots who will not be trained. you can't make that up.

so it will move into '14, into '15. it will take us two years to catch up if we don't do the flying hours these years, because you only have so much capacity in order to train, for example. it's those kind of things that will cause us problems, and then we'll have to take some potential actions in our installations, where we won't have some of the programs that we have now. we won't eliminate them, but we'll have to trim them. some of our counseling programs, some of the things important to us, we won't be able to do. you can't make that up. the people who need the counseling need it now. >> a completely unrelated topic, we're talking about guns in washington. i hope we do something personally. we are trying to plan some events around the country, trying to address the issue and talk to people who are concerned about this. do you see any place in our society for bushmasters, for americans to buy bushmasters and other similar types of --

>> i have some concerns about it, you know, with the job i have, i see too much violence already. i've had to witness chaos in war and killing. so what i would like to see us do is come to an agreement where we are identifying. we can at least register people. our suicide rate is very high, and the large majority of sue sides are done by guns. so what we'd like to do is get them registered to at least understand who has them. that helps us to help them. that's a military problem, that's a bit separate issue -- >> what about assault weapons? >> this is my personal opinion. >> personal opinion. >> my personal opinion is i don't think we need them, but -- i do think people have the right to bear arms. we all agree with that. >> i don't think we've met someone here who is against that. >> and i think people would be allow to do do that. >> general ray odierno, thank

you for your professional and personal opinions on the show. coming up next, a place at the table. tom colicchio teams up with lori silverbush on a new project. so if you have a flat tire, dead battery, need a tow or lock your keys in the car, geico's emergency roadside assistance is there 24/7. oh dear, i got a flat tire. hmmm. uh... yeah, can you find a take where it's a bit more dramatic on that last line, yeah? yeah i got it right here. someone help me!!! i have a flat tire!!! well it's good... good for me. what do you think? geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance.

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one student in particular, rosie, i just felt she wasn't applying herself in the classroom. i couldn't figure out where that attitude was coming from. what i realized was the main issue is that she was hungry. >> i struggle a lot. most of the time it's because my stomach is really hurting. i'm just looking at the teacher, and i look at her and all i think about is food, so i have these visions in my eyes. sometimes when i look at her, i envision her as a banana, and everybody in the classes like apples or oranges, and then i'm like oh, great. >> that was a clip from the documentary "a place at the table." wow. here is the executive producer of the film, and tom colicchio, also the film's codirector and

producer, lori silverbush. >> thank you for having us here. >> that looks impactful. obviously it has a message, but now what's the next step? it looks amazing. >> one of the things we were most inspired by was the fact that 1968 cbs aired a documentary called "hunger in america" exposing a shocking condition that americans were in some cases starving, and americans watched this and they called their congress people. they reacted with outrage. within two weeks we had a bipartisan action. senators bob dole and george mcgovern reached across the aisle and built our modern foot safety net program, and frankly they funded it by the 1970s we had nearly eradicated hunger, and we've gotten all the way back because the language and philosophy of the times shifted away, and how it's in our collective best interests to do that, and how there's lazy

people asking for a free ride, and so here we are. >> you are worried about the sequester, because the cuts that do happen are not good for the issue of hunger. >> 600,000 pregnant women, infants and children under 5 will lose their benefits. it's just -- when you think about it, it's the most vulnerable people in our country. if you look at, in doing the film, we really wanted to put a face to hunger. there's 50 million americans who are food insecure in this country, one sixth of the population. people are sort of accustomed to thinking about hunger in terms of third world hunger, famine victims, yet we have americans walking around that look pretty much normal, but they're actually hungry, and malnourished. it's just something that we can for example. >> it does seem ridiculous, the school lunch issue, the quality of our food, our environment,

and the obesity crisis, which has everything to do with processed foods, and actually coincides directly with hunger, if i may, because some of the children who are not eating well are malnourished are eating bad foods that make them obese, so they're unhealthy, hungry and obese. >> i'm actually passionate about this and i'm going to get angry right now, because in a country of such tremendous wealth, in a country of such tremendous plenty, the idea that we have people who are both suffering from obesity and so many young people suffering from hunger is astonishing. i mean, it's outrageous. what really makes me angry, almost as angry as knowing there are hungry kids, is hearing politicians suggest that food stamps are somehow a failure of the government, as opposed to a mark of compassion. we have hungry people in our own

community and people think it's a mark of failure? >> our a failure of the people who somehow -- have somehow failed in the social contract. but when you have in excess of 43 billion individuals in this country who rely on food assistancer we're no longer talking about losers or slackers or any of the language that people like to attach. this is a tremendous investment in people. we are showing lawyers, doctors, teachers and celebrities, people who are making it today because at a certainly time in their lives, they needed food assistance and our government supplied it. >> i think what's also interesting, from working on the film, we found that 80% of s.n.a.p. recipients have at least one member of the family, so we're talking about working poor. >> that's where we are. you look at what the u.s.

government subsidizes. 84% commodity crops, cotton, wheat, corn, rice and soy. 15% dairy, livestock and another 1% fruits and vegetables. welcome to our food environment. >> so it's easy to demonize someone for making a bad choice and feeding their kids unhealthy food as if they have a choice, because unhealthy food is really inexpensive and healthy food is expensive. if we move some of the subsidies over to fruits and vegetables, maybe we can lower the price and they can have a choice. >> and not corn, perhaps, which is a vegetable, but also is -- >> i don't have a problem with corn per se, but we're subsidizing corn that's going into ethanol, going to feed, to feed a massive livestock venture that's not healthy for anybody. >> 23.5 millions americans living in what's called food deserts. what's a food desert? >> it can be urban or rural. in fact 75% of food deserts are

urban, where you have to travel great distances or spend a lot of time or money, gas, getting to a store that's fully stocked or stocked with any fresh produce at all. we show one of our amazing characters in this movie, she has to drive 45, 50 minutes each way to find any fruits or vegetables, because in her neighborhood there's tons of packaged goods, tons of really unhealthy calories, junk food is abundant, but to go that far just to make sure your kids get some vegetables or fruit in your day. so it is what tom is saying. we're used to this culture of blame, saying you people making those bad choices, but, you know, is it really a choice if you have to drive an hour each weight to get broccoli? >> we don't have a problem beings compassionate about hungry people overseas, but -- that's something that's hard to understand, but also we don't help people understand how they

can -- how they can create their own food. cook seg a skill. who is passing on those skills? if you're working a job, you're going to go for the easy option, and the option is going to be unhealthy, and you may not even know what to do with that fresh food, even if you can buy it. >> and assuming someone has time. if they're trying to work two jobs, trying to provide for their family, time is a luxury. >> when we were making this film, we met so many unbelievable people. we met a cop who has to go to food pantries to feed his family. we met teachers who suffered -- as one teacher, this wonderful woman, she suffered hunger as a child, and it has made her feel inferior and sort of laboring under a cloud of shame her whole life. what does it say about our nation if we're letting 17 million children grow up with a psychological and emotional, you know, scar, real will i. >> you talk about compassion, richard. we also don't have compassion

for the growing numbers of more bidly obese americans, many who are extremely poor and don't have access to good food. take it to the next step, my book coming occupy in may, which i'll give you a copy of and how these foods are adetective. so it creates a cycle of hell for them, bad health, and a short life. we have no compassion for this. these people are called undisciplined. it's not. it's a complete crock. the system is completely stacked against our health. >> if we can't get our leaders to be compassionate, look at the dollars and cents. it's costing our economy $167 billion in health care costs, on product activity. >> it's obvious. >> the estimate is about 30 billion can fix the hunger problem that would save $167 billion in the long run. >> it's obvious. thank you for this gift. i appreciate it, tom. you must watch the show.

this makes my iphone 5 connect with my 4 charger? i'll bet you have to buy it. >> you do have to buy it. >> how much was it, tom? >> i bought it, i can tell you it was $14.99. it was on us, please. in making this movie, with el relied heavily on the research and stories you were bringing to date and frankly you've helped shape the conversation where a film like ours has a place at the national table. so thank you. >> thank you "a place at the table" is in theaters now, and on demand today. business headlines are next with brian shactman.

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all right. business before the bell now with cnbc's brian shactman the new indicators out this morning. what do they say about the economy? >> interesting, mika, personal income and spending. personal income was down 3.6%, spending up, and basically that says that consumer debt could be on the rise. interesting thing about income up 2.6% in december, a lot of companies gave more dividends toward the end of the years, so we don't have that in january, plus we have the payroll taxes going back up. we'll see if the patterns next month. stock futures are down about 50 points in the dow after yesterday, if you looked at the headline, down 20, it was a blah day, but less than 20 points from an all-time high in the dow and in the last hour trading dropped like a stone, so they thought maybe it was electronic trading or what have you. still not a lot of chatter about huge fears about sequester, but

we'll see. groupon, probably the best farewell memo that i can remember from andrew mason. he starts it off by says after 4 1/2 years, he did the classic, this is great, i want to spend more time with my family, and then said, just kidding. i got fired. at least the honesty is fantastic. >> i love the people who come to -- it took me a bit when i got fired, because it's so stunning. so he was right there. >> it's a horrible feeling, but honesty is great. we're smart enough to know what the real deal is. >> exactly. you've got it. brian, thank you very much. up next, the morning joe weekend review. [ dad ] find it? ya. alright, another one just like that. right in the old bucket. good toss! see that's much better! that was good.

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the headline in "the washington post," your newspaper, was woodward says that he was threatened by the white house. >> i never have. c'mon, you know that. >> they got the impression from what you said that you felt you were being threatened. you just read to the politico one line from that e-mail when the full e-mails came out, they were as cordial as can be. his e-mail was cordial and your response, so if you felt threatened, why didn't you say,

don't threaten me? >> i did not feel -- i have said, david. c'mon, you are putting words in my mouth. i said i don't think this is the way to operate. you and i have had many discussions. you've never said to me you're going to regret doing that. am i correct? it's been a odd week in news. bob woodward went to war with the white house, congress accomplished absolutely nothing on the sequester, and louis schmoozed with his friends on the red carpet during the "vanity fair" oscar party. yes, that really happened. this is the "morning joe" week in review. sometimes you know, i just try to spur debate. >> yes, you do. >> that's what i am. ♪

chris christie is being excluded from a party with approval ratings in the twitties. his future? pretty damn bright. >> that's a pretty green shirt. >> it's not easy being green. >> anything you want to tell us, pat? >> yeah, i want to talk about sequester. >> isn't the president asking to close loopholes? >> he's offered 900 billion in cuts. take it! >> the president said it was the republicans' idea. >> they really were sitting around drinking bourbon, in the good old days, they would get this solved after a couple shots, maybe a little woodford reserve? ♪ salt, sugar fat, the food industry is using those three ingredients to create addicts.

>> i'm hungry as munch kin. >> how much calories in horse meatballs? >> i don't want to bet on what i eat, and my ikea meatballs. >> will you pleat have one d on? >> i spoke with harry. he's a little short on the sequester. i always took liam as more of the macroeconomists. >> you guys are scaring me. >> i'm blowing bubbles to make my mind get distracted from -- >> i actually wrote a song called austin texas. the opening lines were, i met a girl from austin texas who turned out to be an l.a. man. what's the deal with austin texas? please help this redneck understand. up next, did we learn anything? what if anything did we learn today?

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