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i love the fact that quicken loans provides va loans. quicken loans understood the details and guided me through every step of the process. i know wherever the military sends me, i can depend on quicken loans. good saturday afternoon. i'm craig melvin. you are watching msnbc, the place for politics. what's the bottom line when it comes to the sequester? >> this process has totally stalled out. >> here's the thing, none of this is necessary. i still believe we can can and must replace these cuts with a balanced approach. >> this discussion about revenue, in my view, is over. it's about taking on the

spending problem here in washington. >> and there you have it, folks. deadlocked in washington. now if these budget cuts do spell doomsday, what will they look like? i thought i could hear him screaming for me and hollering for me. >> also from the outside it looks fine. inside, though, it's a nightmare. now no one knows if it is going to get worse. >> we need some time of pair, reflection and getting to know each other. >> but after that, how long will it take for the world's 1 billion-plus catholics learn who the next pope will be. first, president obama continues to hammer republicans in congress over the $85 billion worth of automatic cuts now in effect. in his weekly address, the president once again insisted there was no real reason for the crisis. >> here's the thing. none of this is necessary.

it's happening because republicans in congress chose this outcome over closing a single wasteful tax loophole that helped reduce the deficit. >> the gop brought out kathy mcmorris rojers to respond. >> in the house, we've done the work and shown that these choices can be made in a responsible, thoughtful way. so we urge president obama and the senate democrats to put country ahead of party and pass a responsible plan to replace the sequester. and also this afternoon, four former senators, tom daschle, bill bradley, christopher dodd and allen simpson are all now saying thap wrong when they supported the defense of marriage act in 1996. and in a historic move this week the obama administration filed a friend of the court brief with the supreme court arguing that california's proposition 8 which limits marriage to a man and a woman violates the u.s. constitution's guarantee of equal protection. in a press conference yesterday,

president obama doubled down on his support of prop 8 being overturned. >> just whenever a particular group is being discriminated against the court asks the question what's the rationale for this and it better be a good reason and if you don't have a good reason, we're going to strike it down. >> what, if anything, will the brief do to influence the court's decision on marriage? a constitutional law expert at nyu. he's here with me this afternoon. good to see you, professor. >> good to see you, craig. >> proposition 8 has been battered around in california courts. what's behind the timing of the supreme court being asked to hear this case now? >> well, it's just gone up the system in the regular stately way that these cases go so that the trial in this case is actual held in early 2010. there was a 9th circuit opinion and now there's an appeal to the supreme court and so we'll hear the the ultimate decision and oral arguments will be heard in the 26th and we'll hear the

ultimate decision in the court in june. how unusual is it for an administration to be involved in a supreme court case like this? >> not that unusual. the brief itself talks about prior cases in which it's gotten involved in precisely this way. >> when that happens, does it lend any more credence to the argument? >> i think it definitely does. i think the government will now be allowed oral argument time in the court so we'll be able to address the justices about where it wants the need toll start in the 50-state solution so it's staking out an intermediate course in between the two extremes. >> if the high court does overturn prop 8, what will the immediate effect be. >> it depends on how broadly or narrowly it does, it has the 50-state solution and it will be the law of the land in all 50 states and what the administration was pushing in this brief is we want an eight-state solution and we don't want zero and we don't want 50. there are eight states that currently give gay couples all of the rights and

responsibilities of marriage, but withhold only the world marriage and those states have to tip over into allowing marriage because it's irrational to protect the brand of marriage in that way. if you're worried allowing gay couples in would tarnish the brand. >> what can we glean from past cases and past writings from the justices and what can that tell us about the decision we might see this summer. >> it's a great question. justice kennedy is often seen as a swing vote in the court and he's seen as a swing justice. we've had these two major gay rights cases of the court has decided, the two major ones in 1996 the romer case and in 2003 the lawrence case and he was e theth thea author of both of those opinions and you can draw a straight line between those two points and thank you so much for your insight. we'll be seeing and hearing a lot of you. >> let's get to the other story.

the deadline to stop $85 billion worth of automatic budget cuts has come and it's gone. washington has more on its to-do list, though. the president says, quote, we can't keep lurching from one manufactured crisis to another, but now he has to get a budget passed and there's also a debt ceiling fight that could be looming. here's what he had to say about the latesto in d.c. >> we will get through this. this is not going to be an apocalypse as some people have said. it's just dumb, and it's going to hurt. it's going to hurt individual people and it will hurt the economy overall. >> but are dumb politics actually working out for some folks? >> joining me now from washington, ed o'keefe "washington post" manyou raju. >> there are no winners in this. listen to what hey had to say friday. >> this is not a win for

anybody. this is a loss for the american people and -- and again, if we step back and just is remind ourselves what it is we're supposed to be doing here then hopefully common sense will allow it in the end. look at this headline from "the new york times" yesterday, quote, boehner halts talks on cuts and house gop cheers. being happy that house speaker john boehner didn't cave in negotiations with the white house. >> the house republicans and senate republicans didn't like how the fiscal cliff deal turned out in which taxes were raised over folks that made more than $450,000 a year. now they are digging in and they're saying no more taxes and they're happy with both baner and mitch mcconnell for not giving in at this point in the talks. the president is making a risk and he thinks with baner and

mcconnell and rank and file republicans will agree with his approach for more taxes in order to deal with the sequester and it's a very risky proposition because the economy could begin to slow and the president could end up getting the blame for that at the end of the day. >> do we think the gop was ever serious at all about negotiating here over the sequester? >> not on this round of negotiations, no. i think they dug in after that fiscal cliff and made it clear if the president got his tax increase we want the spending cuts and the speaker went through and you cited in "the new york times" story, they were very pleased with how the speaker performed and manu and i have talked to house and senate republicans who were pretty pleased with how they went because they've got this. we'll probably see modifications with the continued resolution that expires at the end of the month, but otherwise, republicans expect that the cuts will continue for the rest of the fiscal year. >> speaker boehner gave an

exclusive interview on "meet the press" that will air tomorrow. here's the clip. >> i would ask the president and senator reid to come with a plan to replace the requester. listen, we've known about this for 16 months. each today, there's no plan from senate democrats or the white house to replace the sequester and over the last ten months house republicans have acted twice to replace the sequester. >> how powerful is john boehner right now? >> he has an unruly conference to deal with. so he knows he's being very cautious, actually, when they keep talking about the bills they passed. it's bills they passed in the last congress and they have not wanted to bring that up again in this congress. >> senate democrats do have a plan. they just have no chance of passing so right now both sides are nowhere near the point where they need to be to resolve this issue. >> take a look at some of the tweets we picked up yesterday when all of this was going down. this is rnc spokesman sean

spiteser quoting, almost no traffic on 395 a.m. joe pounder, another rnc official saying i was surprised today when coming into work that that sequester hadn't turned washington into some scene out of mad max. it did not end when the budgets went through. how much hyperbole did the white house describe with the sequester? >> everyone has been using hyperbole. >> present company excluded, of course. >> of course, craig, of course. >> you've driven the stree stre washington and you know how bad it could be. the aaa reported there could be a 30% cut in congestion because of furloughs so you wonder if some locals might not be all right with that. they acknowledge that republicans have pulled back. i hate to burst david gregory's

bubble but if you've had -- we could probably pay for the sequester. it's an incredible message discipline over the course of this making it clear that the house wasn't going do anything, it was all up to the senate and the white house and he held firm and we'll see what happens. >> you say message discipline, but you also seem to have a number of republicans -- you have some republicans saying, yes, the sequester. it's awful. blah, blah, blah, and you have a significant group of republicans saying, you know what? $85 billion at the end of the day is not going to take that big of a chunk out of the economy. >> the republicans are primarily concerned with the defense cuts and you look at john mccain and lindsay graham and a lot of house republicans who live in and around newport news and will deal with defense contractors so they're concerned about that aspect, certainly. and look, i think as this plays out over the next month because we're not going to feel the

effects of this for about another month. we'll see lawmakers in different parts of the country for different reasons start to express concern and maybe find a way to fix them. >> manu raju, we'll do it again in a few minutes. come back later. >> sounds good. >> all eyes are on florida. that sink hole that swallowed a man in his bedroom. as the sink hole expands authorities are warning neighbors to stay back. we'll go live to the sunshine state in just a moment. >> day one of the sequester cuts now in effect. so what does it really mean for our national security? >> pentagon officials say be afraid. a member of the house foreign affairs committee next. ♪ ♪ [ lisa ] my name's lisa, and chantix helped me quit. i honestly loved smoking, and i honestly didn't think i would ever quit. [ male announcer ] along with support, chantix is proven to help people quit smoking. it reduces the urge to smoke.

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for month, the government has been warning about the dire consequences to our armed services for sequestration to go into effect. doomsday have come and gone and where do our troops stand and will washington ever be able to get anything done especially in a timely fashion. joining me now california congresswoman karen bass, member of the house foreign affairs committee. it's good to see you. >> thank you. thanks for having me on. >> two upcoming fiscal deadline. march 27th for the budget and this is what the president said about the state of communications across the aisle. >> washington sure isn't making it easy. at a time when our businesses have finally begun to get some traction, hiring new workers, bringing jobs back to america, we shouldn't be making a series of dumb, arbitrary cuts to things that businesses depend on. >> how optimistic are you that washington will actually be able

to come to a bipartisan agreement on these other major deadlines coming down the pipeline and possibly with some time to spare? >> well, i will tell you, several weeks ago i was much more optimistic than i am now. i didn't believe that my republican colleagues would want the sequester to go forward, but now it seems as though they have embraced it. i do have to hold out and be optimistic and say that we will get a deal done because we absolutely have to. the government can't be shut down and these cuts cannot go into effect, but i have to tell you that people are already feeling the impact. i was with constituents in my district yesterday. a woman who had already received a furlough notice, a health clinic where they were getting ready to reduce services to 3,000 patients. this is already hitting people and hitting people hard. >> the president spent much of the past month or so launching a very public campaign in an attempt to try to shame republicans at least to do something about the sequestration, but it didn't work this time.

why not? >> well, i don't know. i think that it has. what the president was doing, in my opinion, was his job. he was going out and he was talking to the american people and he was saying in your state, in your city this is going to be the impact so you need to reach out to your congressional representative. i think it was very, very important for him to do that, for him to get ut of washington and for him to encourage -- >> the pressure didn't come, and if it did come it wasn't intense enough to get your colleagues to do anything. >> i think it wasn't intense enough to get them to do anything, by friday, but i do believe the pressure will continue to come to bear and it's a sad thing to say, but you know, sometimes some people need it to reach the point of near disaster before they will be willing to move. i think this is so unfortunate. i don't understand why the the republicans would put their own constituents at risk just to hold on to their ideological argument that they don't want to raise revenue when any economist

will tell you that this needs to be settled with a balanced approach. >> why do you think the president waited until yesterday to meet with congressional leadership about this? >> well, i think he's in conversation with leadership, whether it was a formal meeting over at the white house or not, but, you know, they've been very clear if they state right away that they are not going to bend, that they are not going to entertain revenue, what was the point? so i think that we'll see more meetings happen, and i do hope that inside those meetings that there is some give that is taking place. maybe speaker boehner can't come forward and say it on a camera because you know, every time he says something his caucus comes after him. i mean, how outrageous is it for his caucus to say that they forbid him from meeting privately with the president? this has gotten completely out of hand. >> you're right, but the speaker has adhered to it. the speaker is following or at least accepting the advice of

the caucus and if that is going to be the case going forward, what does that mean for governing? >> well, what it means is is that the speaker has essentially abli daabdicated his leadership and his caucus is rung him. they elected him as the leader. they should allow him to lead, but that's not what the situation is. it might come to a point where he has to put his leadership position on the line, and i think frankly, it would be a bold and courageous thing to do and he could go to the american public and say, look, we're going go for a balanced approach. just the other day, we passed the violence against women's act and we violated the hastert rule that says every single republican has to vote toward bill and the bill passed with majority democratic votes. that's exactly what needs to happen here. he needs to break that hard, ideological stand that all of the republicans have to be on the same page. he needs to put the votes together with democrats and we'll be able to solve this

crisis. >> i also know you got back from mali. when we get you back next time i do want to talk to you about what you saw in that country. >> i would be happy to do that. >> thank you, congresswoman. president obama feeling the wrath of the comic con set. plus miss judd goes to washington. you're watching msnbc. [ male announcer ] research suggests cell health plays a key role throughout our lives. one a day men's 50+ is a complete multivitamin designed for men's health concerns as we age. it has 7 antioxidants to support cell health. one a day men's 50+. ♪ right. but the most important feature of all is... the capital one purchase eraser. i can redeem the double miles i earned with my venture card to erase recent travel purchases. and with a few clicks, this mission never happened. uh, what's this button do? [ electricity zaps ] ♪ you requested backup? yes. yes i did.

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the star trek series. >> in response the white house tweeting out this photo along with their statement apologizing kind of saying, we must bring balance to the force, get it? balance to the force. all right, into the playground we go. ashley judd's latest travels to the nation's capital continued fueling speculation that she may run for the u.s. senate in kentucky. against senate minority mitch mcconnell. yesterday at a forum organized by george washington university, the actress skirted political questions, irking press in the room, of course. >> my question was a little more domestically focused because i know you may be running for political office, but i'm not asking you about that. >> is there an elephant in the room? >> nothing unnoticed in that closely watched event. >> telling the audience that she winters in scotland. be sure to tune in tomorrow talk to democratic congressman from

kentucky who has the inside track on judd's potential candacy and call it a different kind of diplomacy maybe. this is dennis rodman with north korean leader kim jong-un this week and they had dinner and partied it up a little bit and he was with the harlem globetrotters before leaving the country. the former nba star had this to say about kim jong-un. >> he's proud. his country likes him. not likes him, loves him. >> yes. i love him. that guy is awesome. >> i've got quite a bit to say about this particular diplomatic trip. i will share my thoughts on that in our next hour. still to come, though, when a threat might not be a threat and what it means for the white house press corps and what it says about us. plus, the college of cardinals will gather monday, who are the favorites to succeed pope benedict xvi. >>. you're watching msnbc the place

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>> all together -- awww! a new face in upstate new york. a polar bear cub making her debut at the buffalo zoo. only one of two zoos in north america to have polar bear births. the cub is too small to exhibit so for now we can only see her on closed-circuit television. i'm craig melvin. good saturday to you. here are the other top stories making news. secretary of state john kerry is in cairo and it is his sixth stop on his 11-day trip overseas. he is set to meet with mohammed morsi tomorrow. >> the trial continues for jodi arias, the arizona woman accused of killing her ex-boyfriend. arias took the stand yesterday. she tearfully told the court how she stabbed, slashed and shot

travis alexander. her lawyers insist she was acting in self-defense. another step forward for women in the military. for the first time ever a woman has been named to lead the air force academy in colorado springs. newly minted defense secretary chuck hagel picked major general michelle johnson for that job. >> i really don't think there's any hope. they say the hole keeps getting bigger. i don't think they'll find him. i think he'll be in the hole where he is at now. i don't think they'll find him. >> that was jeremy bush there. his brother jeffrey has been missing since thursday night. that's when the oath -- that's when the earth, rather, literally opened up under his house. authorities say part of the house fell into a massive sink hole. they're assuming jeffrey was killed. now they've evacuated nearby homes just in case the hole spreads. gabe has been covering the story

for us. what's the latest from the scene? what's happening right now? >> reporter: well, craig, the sink hole appears to be growing. we just heard from authorities within the past few hours and they haven't been able to actually get inside the home to really test exactly how big, how deep this hole has gotten, but it does appear to be growing. just a little while ago we heard that the house on that side has been compromised and that family was allowed to go in the home for a half hour and retrieve their belongings and now they're investigating the home on the other side to see if that home has been compromised. you can see several family members in the distance waiting for word on whether that home might collapse. as best we can can tell, the ho hole appears to be 20-feet wide and authorities aren't sure. as we mentioned, the bush family is presuming that jeff bush died late thursday night. that's when they heard a loud crash and his brother went into his bedroom to try and save him.

he could sxkcouldn't and had tod out. this one is unprecedented given the fact that it happened inside the home. the home from the outside, it looks like nothing happened, but authorities are concerned that if this hole continues to spread there may be problems for some of the other homes. they're investigating that home behind me to see if it might collapse. >> gabe gutierrez in seffner, florida. we'll check in with you over the next few hours. the obama administration formally stepped into the legal battle over same-sex marriage this week, filing what's called a friend of the court brief in the case over california's ban on same-sex marriage known as proposition 8. it's a historic move. nbc's justice correspondent pete williams explains. craig, this is a historic move. it's the first time the president and his justice department has weighed in with the supreme court on the right of same-sex up cannels to get

married and that view came in the friend of court brief the administration filed late this week stepping into the legal dispute over proposition 8 and the measure that stops same-sex marriage in california. atted minh station argues that states violate the constitution if they offer civil unions to gay couples and also deny them the right to marry. while that clearly applies to the legal dispute in california it would apply to at least seven other states, delaware, hawaii, new jersey and rhode island. each offer civil unions, but not same-sex marriage and while the administration takes no position beyond those states, the reasoning would have an even broader implication. if the administration's legal theory were ultimately accepted by the courts, then no state under constitutional guarantees under discrimination can deny same-sex couples the right to marry. for now the focus is on california and prop 8. craig? >> pete williams from d.c. for us this afternoon.

thank you, sir. what are the political issues at stake here? let's go straight to the war room. karen finney, former communications director for the democratic committee. rich galen is former spokesperson for newt gingrich and publisher of "mullings.com." good to see you. >> president obama on friday making clear why the administration needed to take action in the case. take a listen. >> the basic principle that america is founded on. the idea that we're all created equal applies to everybody regardless of sexual orientation. >> what's the message that president is sending to the supreme court here, rich? >> it's the same message that 74 or 75 other republicans including me are trying to send when we signed a similar friend of the court brief that was

filed on thursday, and i am a proud signer of that and that is i absolutely agree with the president. polling shows across the country that it's largely based upon your age. i'm 66 years old. i grew up with people that were probably gay, but i didn't know it and maybe they didn't know it. my son who also signed the friend of the court brief. he's known gay people his whole life, high school, college and it's not a big deal to them. so i think what the president is trying to do is to send a message to the court and what republicans are trying to do is to say this is not a matter of partisanship and this is a matter of frankly, common decency. >> it's widely known that the president's position on same-sex marriage has evolved tremendously over time. take a listen. >> i believe that marriage is between a man and a woman, and i am not in favor of gay marriage, but when you start playing around with constitutions just to prohibit somebody who cares

about another person, it just seems to me that that's not what america is about. >> i continue to believe that this is an issue that is going to be worked at at the local level because historically this has not been a federal issue. >> he did a 180 in four years. >> yeah. how real is the possibility, karen finney, that when history is written president obama will go down as the first gay president? >> i don't think he is -- >> well -- i don't think michelle would quite appreciate that one there, craig. >> you know what i'm getting at. >> i know what you mean. there's no question that we are historically in a pivotal moment in how this issue is thought about and handled in our country. as rich said, it is across the political spectrum, you can't ignore the fact that you do have increasingly political power among openly gay republicans, similarly on the openly gay democrats.

i think the gay community has done a fine job over the last several years fighting the little battles on this and doing the work of those who were hard lined against it. it challenges what you believe as the president said in terms of the quality. i do think that the president has changed on the issue and weighing in on this brief i think will absolutely go down as a major part of his legacy and frankly, from the civil rights perspective, that is a wonderful thing and something that i and rich and a lot of us should be very proud of. >> again, you mentioned part of the legacy and we're talking about repeal, don't ask, don't tell and we're talking about the first mention ever of an inaugural address. doma. >> you know -- >> go ahead. >> i happen to be of mixed race and when i was born it was illegal for my parents to be married in their home states of virginia and north carolina. today that sounds crazy to people that that would have ever been against the law. so i'm happy to see in my lifetime, and i think genuinely,

people's attitudes are changing. why in our military would we not want the best of the best when we are up against the worst of the worst? >> i spent six months in iraq in '03 and '04, and i will tell you that there were women especially in units like psychological operations and places in the military intelligence that were absolutely in the fight and i don't remember anybody saying well, i'm not going go out there because there's a woman when the rockets started firing you would cover anywhere you could. >> rich, you mentioned that you were one of the signees of the letter. you're aware of this and most of our viewers are probably aware of this as well, cpac, the consentive political action conferen conference, excluded go proud from its annual meeting. it's mind-boggling to a lot of folks why a party who has talked ad nauseam over the past few months about, you know, building this bigger tent and inviting all these folks in and you go

around and do something like this? >> because cpac is not the republican party. cpac is cpac. i'm not saying they did this, but moveon.org who is the mirror image of cpac on the liberal side excluded a gay rights or a right to life group that you would say why is the democratic party doing that? it's not the democratic party. this isn't the republican party. this is a very small subset of -- not eventual republicans, but conservatives. >> you buy that? >> i do, and i actually think that this is -- i was very proud to see a number of republicans our own s.c. among them not to participate in cpac because as she said, it's too uncomfortable to condone that when there are people who genuinely believe in their hearts that it's just wrong to discriminate against people who are gay. i'm glad to see this issue crossing political barriers.

i wish more of the issues that we were dealing with today had that kind of power and resonance. >> you mentioned essie, we have a quick bite from her. let's listen. >> it's become increasingly uncomfortable for me to endorse an event that is in some ways excludeing and in many ways marginalizing this core group of gay conservatives. these are people who have worked doubly hard on our behalf, having to reconcile their private lives with their political lives. >> again, that was s.e. cupp talking about what you mentioned from cpac. while i have you quickly, i want to end with something about the sequester. are we starting to see at this point some signs that congressional gridlock may be easing with this. maybe we think that this may be it? no, rich? >> no. >> i take the speaker at his word. he's been saying this right straight through.

this isn't a new position with him that they spent the revenue part in january on the grounds that we would deal with the spending side as we got closer to the continuing resolution, and i don't think it's going to change his mind. >> karen, what do you think? >> i don't disagree, but look, in the same way that outside public pressure has changed where we are as a country when it comes to issues like marriage equality and it will take that kind of public outside pressure to get congress to recognize not just on the sequester, but more broadly. this is not a way to function as a government. >> i agree. >> this is not the way it's meant to be. it's got to stop and i think it's only going to stop if there are political consequences brought by people in this country to their elected leaders. >> that's a great spot for us to stop. >> karen finney, rich galen, thank you very much for your time. >> thank you for having us. >> coming up, i'll be joined by the co-founder and executive director of go proud. the group that we mentioned is being excluded from cpac.

a source told him it was the biggest story in washington this week and what it says about us. plus, a new approach to battling homelessness one step at a time. the founder of an innovative group thatten kierjs the down and out to lace up their running shoes. she'll join me next. [ dad ] find it? ya. alright, another one just like that. right in the old bucket. good toss! see that's much better! that was good. you had your shoulder pointed, you kept your eyes on your target. let's do it again -- watch me. just like that one... [ male announcer ] the durability of the volkswagen passat. pass down something he will be grateful for. good arm. that's the power of german engineering. ♪ back to you. ♪ and every day since, two years ago, the people of bp made a commitment to the gulf. we've worked hard to keep it. bp has paid over twenty-three billion dollars to help people and businesses who were affected,

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the answer to homelessness is running. my dad struggled with addiction for much of his life and ten years later i see guys standing outside a homeless shelter and realize i can help them through running with them and after a couple of weeks of doing that really began to see how important community is and self-value and self-worth and how those things are missing in their lives. >> how does it work? >> our program is an average of six months long and we partner with shelters in ten different cities and we have contracts with them and we work with the individuals living in shows shelters. they run with us three days a week, monday, wednesday and friday, we track attendance, mileage and attitude and they have mileage in the program, but they have to keep a minimum of 90% attendance to move forward in the remember program. we are not trying to build a running community within the homeless community. we are trying to use running to create self-sufficiency in the self community by focusing on self-worth and self-value.

>> what's been the success rate? >> really good. 46% of people who start the program and finish with a job, house or both and we helped 750 people find employment in four years mainly through private partnerships like folks at the marriott, white lodging and at&t. it's been pretty amazing. what do you hope this becomes? what's the endgame here? >> you know, craig, there's a few things. we're trying to change this conversation around homelessness. we can't keep doing the same thing and hoping for different results. we need to realize that these are human beings. they're people and they're not different from you and me, and they have to learn what they're capable of and that's what the big void is when going after this issue. so we see the ability to partner, supplement and compliment the work that's being done and we've shown that by being able to expand into ten different markets and we want to change the conversation, change their perception and change the approach. >> back on my feet. it is a fantastic operation and i've known of it for a number of

years. sometimes it's okay for me to be biassed and i'm biased here. >> i don't mind you being biased. >> i'm familiar with the organization and you've been doing great. good luck to you. keep fighting the good fight. founder of back on my feet. it's the big idea this week. after benedict, who's next? yes, there really are brackets. bets and wages being placed on who will be the next pope. more on that next. this is msnbc. you have the potential to do more in business. by earning a degree from capella university, you'll have the knowledge to make an impact in your company and take your career to an even greater place. let's get started at capella.edu. all the things we love about sunday meals into each of her pot pies. like tender white meat chicken and vegetables in a golden flaky crust that's made from scratch. marie callender's pot pies. it's time to savor.

what is gene sperling going to do? >> oh, my god, sperling? >> come on! >> now, now, now, now -- >> he is worried and feels intimidated by gene sperling? >> please. >> as you can see it here from david axelrod, budget cuts were not the only thing being talked about around the washington water cooler. seasoned journalist bob woodward

this week implied he felt threatened by a white house official gene sperling after noting the white house's responsibility for the sequester. ed o'keefe of "the washington post," a colleague of bob woodward. manu raju of politico, not a colleague of woodward. why did the story even become such a big deal? >> bob woodward is a legend and that always becomes news and then when he actually lays out why he felt potentially threatened or was attacked by the white house in a very blunt and direct way. to some of my political colleagues who reported that issue, it got a lot of attention, but you know, when these emails got revealed that showed that, you know, maybe woodward was overstating the case, and it really sort of blew up in his face and it became a distracting sideshow to the

larger issue which was the sequester and the cuts taking effect friday. >> the effects people in this country. the root of this back and forth was the president was responsible first automatic spending cuts. the white house argues he was not. rer republicans say he was. who is correct? who's right? >> oh, man, you will put that to me, craig? it's the $64,000 question in this town this week, right? >> that's why we put it to you. >> exactly. everyone's responsible for it one way or another. yes, as bob reported in his book, the white house brought his idea to the congressional leaders and some in congress had been talking about it because it was first implemented under similar fiscal circumstances and the white house turns around and points out that congressional republicans joined the democrats in approving it all in the hope of somehow finding a way to fix it all which they didn't, so instead of finding a way to fix it, they spent two weeks talking about who was at fault for coming up with it in the first

place and such is washington in 2013. >> i like what you did that, too, side-stepping the question and that was good. that was good, ed. >> manu and bob woodward sticking to his guns. this is what he said on the "today" show. >> they made a deal in 2011 that they wouldn't have to negotiate with the republicans on the borrowing limit and they moved the goalpost on this. >> so tomorrow, manu, woodward's white house source gene sperling will be on "meet the press." what can we expect to hear from him? >> they will make it clear they did not move the goalpost. the president has been pushing for revenues all along even throughout the budget process and the debt seceiling fight in 2011 and what led to the sideshow that we saw in the last few days. the white house is trying to make the case they've been clear on what they want because at the end of the day they want to deflect as much criticism as

possible from the sequester cuts. >> ed, is this administration more sensitive to criticism than past administrations? >> i don't think they're any more sensitive to it, but they're certainly quite aggressive when they don't get their way. i think what bob may have experienced in some of the pushback than anyone who has dealt with the white house on stories that they're not pleased about gets and that is a little bit of anger and aggressiveness and it just comes with the territory, but certainly administrations are sensitive to making sure that the message is getting out the way they'd like it to get out there. >> this administration is very good at getting information out there in a way that it feels it can, and ed got a little taste of that. thanks to both of you. >> thank you. speaking of the white house. what's so important about this picture? and specifically, who the president is not talking with there. also, dennis rodman's north korean adventure and basketball

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♪ very good saturday afternoon to you. i'm craig melvin. you are watching msnbc, the place for politics. with billions of dollars and forced budget cuts coming down the pike, what does that sound like in washington? >> we stand adjourned until monday. >> senate stands adjourned until 2:00 p.m. on monday. >> i'm in an empty capitol. i want to know everybody where is everybody so we can be working? >> with that, what's a white house to do? refocus, of course, on what they want to focus on. >> we need sensible gun laws. nobody wants to take away your gun. protect the second amendment. i used to have a rifle when i was a kid. >> but is he an effective pointman for those calling for stricter gun laws and speaking

of pointmen, what's the worm doing in north korea? coming up, my take on his visit to the hermity kingdom may have hurt more than it helped. first, though, there's news today from 2012 obama campaign, yes, they're going back in time. they've released the name of fourth quarter bunglers of last year. among the names raising more than a half billion dollars, three hollywood big wigs, harvey weinstein, eva longoria and martin o'malley who may have his eye on the white house himself and the democratic chair helped raise a half million bucks. former presidential candidate mitt romney has given his first post-election interview and he gave fox news his view on the sequester debate. listen. >> i see this as a huge opportunity and it's being squandered by politics, by people who are more interested in a political victory than they are in doing what's right for the country and it's very

frustrating. i have to tell you. the hardest thing about losing is watching this -- this critical moment, this golden moment just slip away. >> the white house photo of the day, friday, according to the white house, that is, was not the president signing the sequester legislation last night and talking to lawmakers on capitol hill. it was this image of president obama on the phone with russian president vladimir putin talking about new ways to stop the violence in syria. hundreds of thousands of americans are now facing furloughs or layoffs in some cases as well since democrats and republicans could not come to an agreement on sequestration. yesterday, the president said none of the cuts were necessary and he characterized them as dumb. joining me now from the white house is nbc's kristen welker. kristen, good saturday to you. what is the fallout like today? >> reporter: craig, good saturday to you. look, this is not good politically for the president, for members of of congress, of course, if you look at the polls

the majority of americans say they will blame republicans for this, but certainly it makes all of washington look ineffective. this stalemate continues and there's really no clear path of how they will stave off these deep, across-the-board spending cuts. president obama met with congressional leaders at the white house on friday. it was really more of a photo op, craig. they didn't accomplish anything. people with knowledge of the meetings say that both sides essentially restated where they stand on this issue. president obama saying he's not going to accept a deal that doesn't include new tax revenues and republicans saying they're not going to accept that type of a deal. today house speaker john boehner is back in his hometown of ohio. he spoke to constituents and he held his ground on this issue essentially signaled that compromise is still a long way away. here's what he had to say. take a listen. >> i've been over there for 22 years. i've watched the presidents of both parties, leaders of both

parties. i kicked this can down the road, kick it down the road, kick it down the road, and i made up my mind two years ago that we weren't going to do it anymore, and i've tried everything -- >> now the fallout and the disruptions from the sequester will take place gradually, craig, over time, but there are some serious consequences, for example, 800,000 defense department civilian employees are facing possible furloughs. teachers are facing possible layoffs. thousands of kids could potentially be kicked off of headstart programs, of course, the other possibility is those who worked for the faa could be impacted which could slow down air travel. we could see some flights get canceled just to name a few of the implications of this. so people are watching this with a lot of concern and if you talk to economists they will tell you that if the sequester does, in fact, stay in place for a long

period of time it could wind up impacting the economy and slowing growth. the big question is what happens now? the thought is that when congress, the white house would deal with the continuing resolution that's that law that funds the government, that is when they'll be forced to deal with this to some extent, but conventional wisdom is they will likely not be able to stave off all of these cuts. what they will try to do is take some of the bite out of these cuts. >> i'm sorry. i didn't mean to cut you off. what's the president doing today? >> reporter: kraicraig, nothing his public schedule today and certainly not negotiating with members of congress. in fact, members of congress are at home today, this is a quiet day, relatively speaking here at the white house, and it doesn't seem as though there's a whole lot of of urgency to deal with they is quester and that's sort of what we've been seeing in the past days and weeks. it's a stark contrast to what we saw during the other budget battles here in washington, the

debt ceiling, for example. the fiscal cliff when there was a large sense of urgency to get something done. so the question is what will lead to that urgency? the white house's calculation is that public frustration will mount and that will force congress' hand and will force congress to do something and again, the impact of these cuts will take place over time and they will take place gradually. it is not clear when that will actually happen. >> kristen welker from the white house for us on this saturday arne. thanks. >> thanks, craig. >> in washington now, time to refocus. what's the next step for the white house and republicans in congress? >> i want to bring in lynn sweet, d.c. bureau chief for "the chicago sun-times" and david nabbikamura from "the washington post." >> the sequester should not get in the waive governing. take a listen. >> what i want to make sure is that we are constantly focused

and that our true north is how are we helping american families suck see the. deficit reduction is part of that agenda and an important part, but it's not the only part and i don't want us to be paralyzed on everything just because we disagree on this one thing. >> lynn, what's first on the president's post-sequester agenda? >> well, i would say it's a simultaneous agenda think of it going on three or four track set once. you have the gun legislation that's making its way towards votes. there is a hearing on the assault weapon ban in the senate this week. you have immigration getting teed up. so you have, those are the top two that we're looking at right now, craig. >> while the president has been highly visible on the sequester you write in part, quote, in the meantime the administration is trying to remain engaged via less high-profile means. what's the president doing to remain engaged in his agenda on gun control and immigration

specifically? >> craig, about a month ago he made very public campaigns on both of those issues and he mentioned it during the state of the union address, but the last couple of weeks he's been very focused on the sequester issue and that's taken up a lot of his time and he hasn't wanted to talk about other issues because he keeps the focus on that. vice president biden has been taking the lead on the guns. you showed a little clip of mayor bloomberg at the white house and he was meeting on the gun issue. the president has made calls to republican senators on immigration, but i think the clip you played of the president and some of the things he said yesterday, he seemed like he was exasperated by the financial negotiations and he was back to the agenda and he has the first trip to the middle east. his first trip to israel in the middle of the month. you saw him on the phone with president putin. he'll start to move to the other issues in march. >> which probably explains why the white house released those

pictures rather than the picture of him on the phone handling the sequester. how can president obama and congress, how can they get together on these other major issues when there appears to be so much acrimoniy between them? >> i'll tell you why. in politics there are no permanent friends and no permanent enemies. you have coalitions forming and reforming over issues. so, for example, senators mccain and graham who are very against senator -- president obama on some issues may be able to find some common ground on immigrati immigration. you just have different coalitions forming and reforming. this is not very unique, actually to how things work even in highly partisan ways. i mean, we just had a coming together for the violence against women act just a few days ago. so it is possible, but what gets all of the headlines are the most partisan battles in and thins where they have things in

common, you will see some communities of interest forming over the next few weeks over these other issues. >> the white house sequester strategy, what can we make of it. >> what the president appeared to say fairly clearly yesterday that he's not going to use the upcoming fight over the continuation of the government spending bill that will keep the government open past march 27th when the current bill expires. the president could come back and try to make the sequester an issue again there and get the republicans to back off and lift the sequester. >> he said he's not going risk a potential government shut down through that. i think it's a longer view for the white house now. while he may move on to some of the other issues, he'll still hammer republicans and he did in today's radio address over the sequester and they're not doing what the american people wanted me to do which was to have a mix and to help pay for these investments you need for the long term. i think if the sequester cuts are severe enough that people start to feel the pain at airports and other places, the

president says maybe that will boomerang and we'll get another deal. >> just one final, the mainstay of obamas has been and will be to travel around the country and blame republicans for the impasse. >> it didn't work this time, lynn. when will it work the next time? >> when people start feeling the pain. >> good to see you. enjoyed it so much. we'll do it again in a few minutes. >> all eyes are on that sink hole in florida that swallowed a man and his bedroom. neighbors are being told to stay back as the sink hole threatens to swallow the house next door now. we'll go live to florida for the latest on that. march madness vatican style. the handicapping is well under way over who will be the next pope. we'll talk to our own expert about the favorites and the underdogs. stay with us. [ mom ] with my little girl, every food is finger food.

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i would be remiss if i didn't ask you that what do you think the chances are that you walk into the sistine chapel as cardinal and coming out as pope. >> as about a-rod for taking third place for the new york yankes. >> sports metaphors are not too far off when it comes to picking a new pope. there is a sweet sistine bracket under way. that sweet sistine bracket trying to predict who will be the next catholic leader. talk about march madness. meanwhile, the world waits to find out when the conclave to choose the next pope will even begin. >> an announcement is expected to come monday, that is when the cardinals will meet in their first general congregation. joining me live now, george weigel, nbc news vatican analyst

and author of "evangelical catholicism. deep reform in the 21st century church." thank you for being with us. >> my pleasure, craig. good to hear you. >> what can we glean from the date the cardinals choose from the conclave, be it in a matter of days or weeks from now? >> i think if they decide on monday or tuesday to wait until the 12th or 13th of may it's an indication that they want to get to know each other better. they want to discuss some of the problems of the church and to explore some of the possibilities of the church around the world and also to measure some of these candidates against the problems and as possibilities. i think the general street talk here in rome is to look for a conclave opening around perhaps march 11th or 12th. >> okay. but all of that is pure

speculation right now. >> you've said that you're starting to hear some names bandied about there in vatican city. cardinal angelo scola, archbishop of milan. cardinal angelo bagnasco, and former archbishop of quebec, what makes these cardinals the subject of papal buzz. walk us through here? >> i think these three men are the subject of buzz because they each bring a relevant body of experien experience. scola and leonard are distinguished scholars and they've led educational institutions and they're men of real intellect intellectall, an

spent his entire life in rome. i asked him once was he really an argentine, and he said yes, during the world cup. so we're back to sports analogies here, but i think, craig, the think to underscore here is that if this were the indianapolis 500 there is no front row and there is no pole position. >> okay. >> this is completely wide open unlike 2005 and it's a very fluid situation in which things are changing up and down for some people on a 24-hour basis. >> let's talk about cardinal peter turkson from ghana. the writing in the article says in part, both because of his personality and the historic milestone some journalists have taken to calling this papal election an obama moment for the church. could turkson be a top pick?

>> i know cardinal turkson. i consider him a friend. he's a lovely man. he's a good biblical scholar. he was a good pastor back in kenya. he has not fit well in rome. i think he would be the first person to tell you that. he doesn't really feel comfortable being manager of the sort he's had to be in the roman curia, and i think the buzz about him is a reflection of his winsome personality, but he would not be candidly, in my top ten. he's a wonderful human being, but this job now is going to require someone to undertake some serious reform of the vatican bureaucracy, and i'm not sure he'll be regarded as the man likeliest to do that. >> if we take a look at the makeup of the conclave itself. more than 50% of the cardinals are from europe. just a majority of those are from italy alone.

how much will geography play in the choosing of the next pope. >> i don't think a lot, except there is an awfully large anti-italian current running in rome right now. i think the feeling is that the curia, the vatican bureaucracy has been re-italianized dramatically over the past seven years, that this has not worked out very well. the church recently semiembraced a candidate, former prime minister monti who got 9% of the vote. so there's a sense that this is not an italian moment and in that sense, nationality might play a role. this is a very interesting, difficult, challenging moment in the life of the church and i don't think what passport a man is carrying will have a whole lot to do with whether he's considered a possible --

>> last question here before i let you go. >> i have to wonder how can the next pope have the most influence? would it be better for the conclave to choose someone from a part of the world where catholicism is strong or might a choice like a cardinal dolan here in north america inspire a place where catholicism is on the decline? >> in fact, catholicism is in a much stronger position in the united states today than it was 20 years ago. the american seminary here in rome right above where we are tonight is fuller than it's ever been since 1964, and i think the vitality of the church in the united states will cause some people to look at the possibility of the north american pope. >> nbc vatican analyst george weigel, thank you very much, sir. i appreciate your time. >> thanks, craig. the sequester and the syrian civil war, we'll make the connection. you might be amused by the worm

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he's proud. his country like him. not like him. love him. guess what? -- yes, yes. i love him. the guy is awesome. >> the guy is awesome. that's former nba star dennis rodman talking about kim jong-un, the leader of the people's republic of korea. they became fast 14s during the ballplayer's trip to the isolated country. this picture alone looks like the last few minutes of the "saturday night live" episode. laughing between since of what looks like either beer from a nipple-topped cup. grinning and clapping as the duo watched a basketball exhibition featuring team north korea against several of the harlem

globetrotters. the whole thing was an embarrassment. does the worm represent america or her interests axe broad? of course, not. should our country talk to its declared enemies? yes. our elected officials and their appoint sees should, but rodman's presence, the joyful phrase for kim jong-un was over the top, this, of course, is the same north korea that two weeks ago conducted yet another nuclear test. sanctions and regional stability be damned. the same third world depressive regime that's starved hundreds of thousands of its own people won't provide reliable electricity outside pyongyang and still cuts its citizens off from the rest of the world. here's a thought. maybe the famous and the infamous even, shouldn't glad hand and back slap dictators no matter how much they claim to love basketball. maybe if given the chance to pal around with the despot, they should try to advance the cause. not america's, but humanity's. just a thought. >> to the sink hole.

it's already swallowed a man alive and now threatening even more of a florida neighborhood. we'll go live to the scene there. also, they're on the front lines of the sequester fight. u.s. troops among the first that will feel the impact of this financial showdown. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. ain. but they haven't experienced extra strength bayer advanced aspirin. in fact, in a recent survey, 95% of people who tried it agreed that it relieved their headache fast. visit fastreliefchallenge.com today for a special trial offer. they're about 10 times softer and may have surface pores where bacteria can multiply. polident kills 99.99% of odor causing bacteria and helps dissolve stains. that's why i recommend polident. [ male announcer ] cleaner, fresher, brighter every day. ...but he'd wait for her forever, for any reason, and would always be there with the biggest welcome home. for a love this strong, dawn only feeds him iams.

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no two people have the same financial goals. pnc works with you to understand yours and help plan for your retirement. visit a branch or call now for your personal retirement review. a i huge storm in eastern russia today is bringing lots of snow and heavy winds and closing airports, railways and highways, as well. meteorologists say the storm could last for many days there. it's reportedly the fiercest snowstorm to hit the region this winter. i'm craig melvin. good saturday to you. here's's look at other top stories. bradley manning pled guilty to ten criminal charges yesterday, but his trial is not over. military prosecutors say they'll still try manning on 12 more serious charges including aiding the enemy. the u.s. army private admitted in court yesterday that he gave

about 700,000 government documents to wikileaks. a possible insanity plea for the suspect in the colorado movie theater shooting. the a.p. is reporting this weekend that james holmes' attorneys are considering having him plead not guilty by reason of insanity. holmes is accused of killing 12 and injuring 70 in aurora, colorado, last summer. they rushed in, all they could see was part of a mat stress sticking out of the hole. essentially the floor of the room had opened up. >> that was a law enforcement official in seffner, florida, where the earth literally broke apart thursday night. police say a 36-year-old man disappeared when part of his house fell into a massive sink hole. they have not found that man. they're assuming that he's dead. now they've evacuate withed nearby homes, as well as the sink hole appears to be spreading. gabe gutierrez has been following this for us from seffner, florida.

what's happening right now? >> reporter: craig, this has been a terrifying ordeal for this entire neighborhood. as you mentioned, this 36-year-old man swallowed by the earth late thursday night. now two other homes have been evacuated and families have been rushing inside those homes throughout this afternoon, packing up their belongings and leaving. authorities aren't sure how big this hole is because they haven't been able to safely get inside the home and they've moved the media back earlier this morning because they were running tests on the ground outside that home. now, some estimates put that sink hole at about 30 feet wide and more than 30 feet deep. neighbors here worry that it could spread. florida, as we've been reporting, sink holes are relatively common here because of the limestone bedrock in florida and underground rivers that can sometimes force these collapses, but authorities here say this one is unprecedented because of how suddenly it happened and that it's contained

inside the home. authorities have said that they may have to demolish this home if they can't get inside, but there has been no timetable set for that. >> those two families that have been evacuated have taken their possessions with them this afternoon and they're trying to figure out when this sink hole might stop growing. craig? >> gabe, what's the scene like right now. i know when we check in with you earlier this afternoon there were people milling about behind you at the house and they appear to be officials. are those officials still there at the home? >> officials have been here all day. i'll try to give you the lay of the land out here. it's a bit of a tight squeeze because authorities have kept the media back, but yes, there are neighbors and some family members that are around the area. that home right back there, that is the second home that was evacuated, and it appears that investigators just wrapped up their investigation and the family members have been taking out their belongings from that

home. if you come back here, this blue house is where this entire incident started and on the left or to my right, your left, this home was also evacuated just after the incident and family members spent the afternoon taking out their belongings here. it's been a difficult afternoon for this entire neighborhood and they're worried that what happens is the sink hole just keeps growing, craig. >> nbc's gabe gutierrez showing us what's happening on the ground in florida. thank you, sir. the military could be hard hit by those spending cuts mandated by the sequester. the pentagon is required to cut spending by more than $42 billion by the end of the fiscal year. how will this affect military readiness? >> i want to bring in retired army colonel jack jacobs, medal of honor recipient and former democratic congressman from pennsylvania, patrick murphy. congressman murphy is an iraq war veteran, as well. good to see both of you on this saturday afternoon. >> thanks for having us on.

>> first pentagon briefing, defense secretary chuck hagel confident that there will not be a solution, that there will be a solution before all of the cuts take. take a listen. >> i have confidence in the president and the congress, but the decision consensus will be reached to -- at some point to avert tremendous damage to this institution. >> the new secretary of defense there in his first talk with reporters. what can the pentagon do to prepare for these cuts? >> it's already done it. it's already prepared and it's already cut. training hours, flight hours, fuel for aircraft and for vehicles and ammunition, travel has already been cut across the board. furloughs for department of defense and all of that stuff has been decided. >> are these things that are

going to make us more vulnerable or are these things that we can cut safely? >> no. they're going to make us more vulnerable. i remember when the current crop of leaders and that is the chairman and joint chiefs of staff of the army, for example, were graduating from west point, we were going to an era of exactly the same problem, and i remember being out in the field with my battalion on a field training exercise with troops yelling bang, bang, because there was no ammunition. it's potentially, these potentially devastating cuts and i think the secretary of defense's comment was more a hope than an expectation. >> what it's expecting is that there will be some kind of agreement before the next really big deal comes up and that is the requirement to extend the debt ceiling and if there is no agreement before then then we really are going to be in trouble. >> patrick, the army chief of staff painted a pretty bleak picture about the impact of the cuts on army readiness.

take a listen. >> right now the army has an $18 billion shortfall and it's what we call operation accounts which helps us conduct training, which helps us pay civilian personnel and so what i'm trying to tell everybody is that we're not going to be able to train for the rest of this year for the most part except for those in afghanistan. >> patrick, you've been on the ground recently, how critical are training cuts to the army? >> they're absolutely critical. general patton once said with every gallon of of sweat you save a pint of blood. you need troops to train like they fight and when you cut $18 billion unless you're going to afghanistan you're not going get trained it's devastating for our nation's sons and daughters. i tell you, craig, this sequester is hurting our military. it's hurting our people and it's going to hurt our economy. we're talking about 750,000 jobs this sequester is going to hurt

and it's man made. those knuckleheads in congress that are doing this. >> now that you're out you can call them knuckleheads. >> they were knucklehoeads wheni was there, too. >> secretary of state john kerry traveling in europe in the middle east. he is in egypt as we speak. he met with syrian opposition leaders in rome on thursday and that's where he promised syrian rebels that they will be receiving direct non-lethal aid from the united states, but opposition there, opposition leaders are look for military supplies and military training as well. why is the united states at this point willing only to provide this non-lethal aid? >> there's an old saying, one bitten, twice shy. having supported a wide variety of rebellious organizations with military assistance and ammunition and weapons and so on and i'll give you a few of them, the taliban, for example, against the rugs in egypt, in libya and not liking very much the results from our support, military support of rebellious

organizations, i think we're not ready to jump into assisting the overthrow of assad just yet, even though he's an odious. >> and there are a lot of devils out there that we don't quite know very well. what direct role could the united states play without direct military assistance? >> the fact that number one, you see secretary kerry, a vietnam veteran act decisively within the first couple of weeks he's been in the job. the opposition syria didn't even want to go to rome and kerry called him and said i'm going. you need to be there. he was there and secretary kerry behind the scenes showing the leadership in saying listen, european union. we all have to do this. we cannot allow these people to be brutalized by this regime that is just flat-out murdering its citizens and as secretary

kerry said, no people should live in fear of their so-called leaders. >> take a listen. this is florida senator marco rubio. take a listen. >> there are plenty of weapons in syria. they're coming from other countries and they're being confiscated. what the opposition really needs is access to ammunition. >> colonel jack, how practical is it to provide limited military assistance. >> we get an ammunition for ak-47s and rpgs and all of the other weapons that the opposition has, and by the way, emotionally weir interested in assisting the opposition because assad is a terrible person and by the way, one of his allies is hezbollah and we knock off assad and we also deal a very big blow to hezbollah, but on the other hand, we don't know the people who are among the opposition. we have no idea what syria will

look like afterwards. it may be a heck of a lot worse. >> one last question, the supreme court is about to hear cases on the constitutionality of banning same-sex marriage. hundreds of lawmakers of both parties have filed amicus briefs, friend of the court briefs, on making it illegal. what are your thoughts in overturning domma and proposition 8. >> it's about time. hit privilege of teaching at west point. when california passed proposition 8 it basically said we are not going treat people equally. we are going to nota, lou you to support marriage equality to those citizens and what that does now when we repealed don't ask don't tell, craig, now military families are hurt because military families are treated differently. if you're a heterosexual couple in the military, that's fine, but if you're a gay couple in a gay marriage in a state that believes in it and supported it, you are treated differently when it comes to housing and when it

comes to survivorship benefits and health care and that's wrong. it's simple, craig. you either believe in equality or you don't. you're either willing to fight for it or you're not. i was proud of the amicus curia brief and i think this is a defining moment in our country's history when it comes to civil rights. >> former congressman patrick murphy and colonel jack jacobs, thanks to both of you. >> thanks, colonel. >> you don't get that a lot. >> coming up, our flashback. the start of america's longest war. we'll take you back to how it started as our troops are getting ready for its end. also how much clout does mayor bloomberg actually have in national politics? he's spending his fortune on local races, but is his win this week an anomaly? we'll talk about that coming up. . and even fewer that make moms happy too. with wholesome noodles and bite sized chicken, nothing brings you together

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elected pope also known as pius xii. he remained the head of the catholic church until his death three years later in 1958. we should, of course, find out monday when the college of cardinals will form their conclave to pick the next pope following the abdication of pope benedict xvi thursday. it was also on this day just months after the attack on the world trade center that u.s. air and ground forces in afghanistan launched an attack on taliban and al qaeda fighters in the mountains of afghanistan. here's how the offensive was reported on nbc "nightly news." >> the operation began late yesterday. u.s. military personnel including special forces on the ground and in the air with attack helicopters and tactical strike aircraft along with hundreds of coalition and afghan personnel launching an assault on an area where several hundred

al qaeda and taliban forces were believed to be hiding. loss of life in the battle not confirmed until this afternoon. >> u.s. coalition and afghan forces have sustained casualties. >> it happened in eastern afghanistan south of gardez. among the target, cave complexes where for the first time u.s. aircraft launched new bombs carrying thermobaric warheads specially designed for afghanistan to penetrate deeply into caves or tunnels to create multiple times the normal pressure in order to propel the explosives to their targets. the opposition follows intelligence reports indicating hundreds, possibly thousands of hostile forces had been regrouping in the area for months. the pentagon stressing as recently as last week that hot spots of resistance could keep u.s. forces busy. >> nbc "nightly news" from march 2, 2002. today there are roughly 68,000 american troops on the ground in afghanistan starting next year. u.s. combat forces are supposed to be out of the country handing

control over to afghan forces. it's often pointed out that in washington most lawmakers have at some point gotten money from pro-gun groups. well, you might be surprised to find out which democrat leading the gun control effort has also taken cash from the gun lob pep that's coming up next. don't go away. ♪ [ male announcer ] we all have something neatly tucked away in the back of our mind. a secret hope.

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there's some new information on who is receiving money from the pro gun lobby, and some of the names might surprise you. according to open secrets, texas republican senator john cornyn was one of the biggest recipients, receiving about $70,000 since 2000. but also receiving contributions, have the democrat patrick leahy. he received about $9,000 from the groups. we have a white house reporter from the "washington post."

lynn, what does all of this money say about the reach of the nra and other gun rights groups as well? >> it says they have deep pockets. they have an agenda, and they want to bankroll candidates and causes that they think will help them. especially as congress is on the verge of considering legislation to curve gun violence. >> the congressional primary in illinois shows how much clout mayor bloomberg may have. as you know, of course, fueled by the super pack. it spent more than $2 million in campaign ads there. how big of a role did michael bloomberg actually play in illinois? >> well, his role was major in the campaign. the first million or so of his money was used to frankly demolish rob ain kelly's main

opposition. that was the first political thing that the money did. you know, they were two tracks the campaign was on. one, they were working to support. robin kelly emerged as the most credible. she had a very good sound campaign that she was putting together. but the big gift that bloomberg did for her is to do what she couldn't do with the limited resources she had is to demolish the competition. later on they came out right for her. >> david. mayor bloomberg said the indoor results show how big of a difference the gun issue can make. take a listen. >> we showed in illinois that by explaining to the public what is at stake here. it's their lives, it's their kids' and grand kids' lives, and their parents lives that we need sensible gun laws. >> how can the issue of gun violence be sustained as a key issue for voters as far away as

2014, david? >> i think from the white house perspective at the president bushes his ideas in a very mixed congress here, you're looking at not only bloomberg, but the president's campaign is reinventing itself and they're promising to spend a lot of money on the issues, too. they're trying to get grass roots supports for the president's proposal. is it going to be an overwhelming issue, no? immigration is going on. but you're seeing bloomberg make a big point of this. he's looking for something to do. he's had a track record of influencing elections, including his own. and this is something to watch out for. especially in the places, in illinois and elsewhere where this could be an issue. certainly chicago has been dealing with a lot of gun violence. as long as it's in the news with the money and influence it could make a difference in a tight election. >> lynn, we have spent a lot of time over the past few months talking about how the gun issue

plays differently in urban areas versus rural parts of the country. vice president biden did an interview this week and in the interview he said in part, quote, if you have to go up to the poconos and go bear hunting or deer hunting with that weapon and you need a clip that has 30 rounds in it, then you shouldn't be hunting. you're a danger to yourself. if you can't get the bear or the beer in four or five shots, you've got a problem. what is the goal here? what is the vice president trying to accomplish? >> he's trying to make the case for one of the main pieces of legislation that the obama white house and others want which is to limit the number of bullets in a magazine. that's what this argument is about. it's to tell sportsmen and hunters no one is coming after you on this one. it's to create a comfort level. biden has said a version of that in several ways. that if you are a sportman, it's

not a sport to take up an assault weapon and do a spray and think you really have some skill, you think you're a skilled marksman. >> you're just a really bad hunter is what it sounds like the vice president is saying. before you guys get out of here, lynn just mentioned the high capacity magazine ban, the assault weapons ban will come up for discussion this week. at this point is it likely to think that either one of f those things has a shot at actually becoming law? >> those face an uphill battle. the first one everybody seems to have the most support for is universal background checks. there are some hold up ls. there seems to be not a lot -- enough support for that one probably. you know, the high capacity magazines is one a lot of people are talking about since the shooting in arizona and since the one in newtown. the president is going to put a lot of energy into it. and his outside groups are going to get them on the grassroots

level. they both still have a long way to go. >> thanks to both of you. >> thank you. >> it's the conservative movement's premier event of the year and one republican group is being told don't show up. i'll talk to the head about the snub. also, michelle obama on a media blitz to promote her campaign. i'm going to talk to a woman who interviewed the first lady up next. [ male announcer ] this is bob, a regular guy with an irregular heartbeat. the usual, bob? not today. [ male announcer ] bob has afib: atrial fibrillation not caused by a heart valve problem, a condition that puts him at greater risk for a stroke.

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>> the he said/she said drags on. now navy ships will sit idle. unemployment checks may not get printed and some airports may be forced to close. does it all mean the end of the world? >> the bedroom floor just collapsed. my brother-in-law is in there. he's underneath the house. >> the earth swallows a man in his house. it's a nightmare come true. it's a haircut. i'm sorry. i don't know what to tell you. it's like, you know, i mean -- >> the first lady there getting mixed about her hair. one on one with the first lady coming up. secretary of state john kerry is in cairo at this hour. he arrived as part of the multination abroad. he is calling on the egyptian government to reach a consensus. he is visiting nine countries on this trip. back home meanwhile we will get

to see and hear mitt romney in his first interview since the 2012 election. here's a sneak peek of that. romney gave fox news his view on the sequester debate. take a listen. >> i see this as a huge opportunity, and it's been squandered by politics, by people who are more interested in a political victory than they are in doing what's right for the country. the hardest thing about losing is watching this critical moment, this golden moment just slip away. . >> and house speaker john boehner saying he's done all he can to solve washington's budget crisis. listen. >> i've been over there for 22 years. i watched presidents of both parties, leaders of both parties. i kicked this can down the road, kicked it down the road. i made up my mind two years ago they weren't going to do it anymore. and i've tried everything.

>> he spoke at a forum in his home state of ohio earlier today. it's day one of the big spending cuts called a sequester. we're going to see $85 billion in federal spending cuts between now and october 1st. that includes a 9% hit to domestic programs, a 13% decrease for defense. so when will refeel the effects of these cuts. dave weigel is a political reporter at slate. he's also an msnbc contributor. it's good to see you. >> good to see you, thank you. state officials are being notified about various funds they're not going to get. what cuts can we feel at this moment? >> we can't feel much at this moment. in terms of what washington is going to try to do. what they will experiment with, they have a continued resolution

to fund the government the rest of the year coming up later in the month. that's the discussion right now i almost said in washington. but they're not in washington. how to avoid the pain. right now less than we expected. we're starting to hear cut backs from government spending. but people are in a bit of a holding pattern in congress because they think there's a way to reverse some of the damage that they did themselves. >> john harwood is also here with us. cnbc's chief washington correspondent. thank you for being with us. >> hey, craig. >> a reality check. the white house says says some 115,000 employees will be the first to find out about reduced work hours, but most furloughs won't start until april. so there may have been a little cushion built sbo the process here. how tied was the lack of urgency to keel up with the deal?

how tied was that to the cushion? >> the reason we didn't get a deal was the fact that you have a fundamental divide between republicans and john boehner saying no more tacks, we raised taxes at the fiscal cliff deal at the end of the year, and the president who didn't get as much revenue as he wanted saying we're not going further with a new round of budget cuts to replace the sequester unless we get more tax revenue. what the president will do is emphasize all the bad things about the sequester, which both parties know is a bad deal, nobody likes it, to try to get republicans to give in. he did that on the fiscal cliff deal to some extent. he did that on the debt limit. they kicked it into may. he hasn't been able to do it again on taxes. >> president obama had this to say at his news briefing yesterday. take a listen. >> what's important to understand is not everyone will

feel the pain of these cuts right away. the pain will be real. >> how will these real effects be felt? >> well. >> go ahead. >> well, what i was going to say is all the things the administration has highlighted are things that are going to happen. will they be dramatic and mediate? will people go to the airport when the furloughs take effect at the department of transportation and the faa and the air controllers aren't there and the towers have to be shut down. will people be able to tell the difference between that and delays already? you can bet the administration is going to point out every single potential effect in a way to rouse republicans in pa way

that we know from poles in a party's reputation and their position on the issue are on the short side of public opinion on this. >> david. public opinion doesn't change. if folks don't get peeved, what does that mean for the sequester cuts? does that mean that they're here to stay? are they here for good? >> that's the next debate that we're going to have. congress is going to introduce a debate to fund government the rest of the year. the only argument about that right now is whether it's going to bake in the cuts of sequestration or whether it isn't. the president gave a confusing statement yesterday at his press conference, seeming to imply that he would sign a bill. but i thought it was interesting. the only republican senate response, actually the only bill passed this year or introduced by republicaned was introduce d

by pat toomey in the senate to let the president reorder to cuts. instd of a grand bargain or something else would prefer these spending levels to stay the same, but give the administration more flexibility, take away the ability of the president to say we can't control where the cuts are going. that's the debate that we're heading into. >> john harwood with a bit of a reality check for us. thanks to both of you. >> thank you. >> in two weeks the conservative government group is hosting an annual conference in washington. gop leaders from marco rubio to mitt romney will be speaking, but one group will not be there. go proud. which is a republican gay rights organization. he said the group was excluded because they, quote, did not act properly as guests in the past. take a listen.

>> from time to time the organizations and individuals that we think go over the top when there are guests at cpac. and for years we decided again not to invite them for the following year. >> but what did they do? >> joining me now, go proud cofounder and executive director jimmy lasilvie. it's good to see you. >> thank you for having me on. >> what is he talking about? >> i would like to know what he thinks a gracious host should be, because we were sponsors of cpac for two and a half -- two years. and for two and a half of those years we were challenged by forces on their board and in outside organizations who wanted us kicked out simply because we're gay, and they fought us because they don't believe that simply because of our sexual orientation we should be a part of the conservative movement.

and so what happened two years ago is one of our members said something about a board member and he apologized for it. and that's the excuse. >> what did he say? >> he used a name that sometimes is used. and he apologized to her. and that's what they were hanging their hat on two years ago when they kicked us out. for the two and a half years before that we were facing boycotts and challenges because we're gay. >> your group has been fairly critical of cpac in the past. why do you want to go at all? >> no. we haven't been critical of cpac. we were a sponsor for two years. education specially this year. we just went through a horrible election cycle. we need a mod rn coalition that can win. the new modern conservative coalition has to include gay americans.

and it has to include recognition that many americans and many, many conservatives, more every day, support sieve marriage for gay couples. >> two reporters here at msnbc have turned down the invitation because go proud will not be there. what else can be done to send a message to c-pack? >>. >> we need a broad a base in the conservative movement as possible and we need to get our message out to everybody in america, including gay people and frankly, the family and friends of gay people who have a misperception that conservatives don't like gays. >> you say that. more than any republican officials including john huntsman, were among those who signed a letter supporting same-sex marriage as well.

does that not at least help? >> well, the thing about it is marriage is a conservative value. and conservatives want their gay friends and family to settle down and get marrieded and be happy. and more and more people are seeing it that way. more and more are supporting the marriage. >> jimmy, thank you. appreciate your time on this saturday. >> thank you. >> several comments about race and voting at the supreme court this week are provoking debate across the country. we'll dive into the hot button issues. also getting inside first lady michelle obama's head on the week she relaunched he let's move campaign. kelly wallace talked to the first lady just a few weeks ago. she'll be live to talk about it next. it's tax refund time and the bashams want to stretch their money further. how much is your current phone bill?

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that's just the nature of life. we live in a time when there are bloggers and tweeters and 24 hour news and everyone has a voice in this town square and it's a big one. and it's good. overall it's good. but at any given point in time somebody is not going to like what you do. that's just the nature of things. >> that's first lady michelle obama talking to kelly wallace thursday about criticism of her oscar performance. the first lady has been everywhere lady, appearing on tef several tv shows and throughout the country. monday she is doing her very first google plus hang out. kelly wallace is i-village chief

correspondent. good to see you. >> good to see you. thanks for having me. >> she looks great. she feels like she has certainly gotten perspective. >> she has thick skin. she said, someone could say they don't like your shoes. they don't like your dress. when you're on in the national spotlight, you get used to it. she says with being in the national spotlight means you're going to have this conversation. it's a little different in this 24/ 7 media culture. >> she found time to write an op-ed for the wall street journal encouraging businesses to invest in healthy foods. jennifer reuben had this to say about the first lady. >> there's a sense of going too far and too much and people don't consider you something special. she's not a hollywood celebrity. >> what, if anything, did

michelle obama say about becoming overexposed? >> i think they would take issue with that. i think she is someone who is pretty disciplined, craig. she carefully thinks about what issues she wants to spend time with. she does let's move. she's focusing on military families. she's probably going to consider focusing on another issue during her next four years. she is dancing with jimmy fal lon. she is doing push-ups with ellen. some people might have an issue with it. the white house would feel like that criticism is coming from cities as opposed to the general public. >> you spent time with her before. how has she changed it all. >> we were lucky in august. we spent an hour with her. she considered it a mom to mom informal conversation. i would say, you know, there's a

sense of her feeling even for liberated now. at least for her husband. i know she said, never, never, never for her. you might want to reconsider that. at the same time, and she said this in her interview, it goes by so fast. she's well awar she only has four more years. she wants to do whatever she can to try to impact children and families. i think, you know, she's really thinking about what can she do in this limited time she has left as first lady. >> we know she's going to continue the let's move campaign. any indication what else she may be put on her plate? >> i understand there are meetings and a strategic planning process under way. she won't tell us exactly. it will impack children and families and maybe taking her initiatives to the international arena and focusing on the plight of women and children around the world. no decisions yet.

>> any indication what she might do after the white house? >> not saying -- i mean, we asked her in one of our interviews about elective office. everyone is asking her and her approval rating is through the roof. she's like, no, no, no. that's not my passion. that's not what i'm good at. she says she loves kids. she has to do something to impact children down the road. >> thank you so much. >> thank you for having us. >> condoleezza rice has a message for all of the people hoping she will make her own run for the white house in 2016. you're watching msnbc. the place for politics. mine was earned in djibouti, africa, 2004. the battle of bataan, 1942. [ all ] fort benning, georgia, in 1999. [ male announcer ] usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaa's commitment

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needs to be done to curve iran's dangerous initiatives. >> that's marco rubio talking ab the notorious water bottle incident after the state of the union. he visits israel, jordan and the west bank meeting with israeli prime minister netanyahu. and to the political playground we go. if you were hoping for former secretary of state condoleezza rice to run for president in 2016 you may be in dprfor a bit a disappointment. she said, quote, i learned running for office wasn't in my dna when i helped president george w. bush run in 1999. we could go to five campaign events at the end of the day. he was rearing to go and i was rearing to go to bed. rice says she will continue to be in public service, speaking out on issues related to education and immigration. and we can't get enough of this one. remember the swiss cheese and presidential candidate john

kerry wanted to put on his philly cheese steak. take a listen to kerry in paris on wednesday. [ speaking foreign language ] >> secretary of state john kerry there. not affecting new jersey governor chris christie' fund raising efforts. just yesterday former senator scott brown hosted a fund-raiser for governor christi e in bosto. he's raising money for his 2013 gubernatorial race. on thursday he raised money at a fund raisest hosted by bob mcdonald. the florida sink hole that swallowed one man alive is on the the move. it's threatening more homes. we'll get the latest in a live report next. with one very pointed question, supreme court chief justice john

roberts has sparked a debate that we're going to delve into ahead. it involves racism and american geography. you're watching msnbc. lobsterfest is the king of all promotions. there's nothing like our grilled lobster and lobster tacos. the bar harbor bake is really worth trying. [ male announcer ] get more during red lobster's lobsterfest. with the year's largest selection of mouth-watering lobster entrees. like our delicious lobster lover's dream, featuring two kinds of succulent lobster tails. or our savory, new grilled maine lobster and lobster tacos. it's back, but not for long. [ woman ] our guests go crazy for lobsterfest. my favorite entree is the lobster lover's dream. what's yours? come celebrate lobsterfest and sea food differently. to prove febreze can keep this car fresh, we loaded it with fast food, sweaty hockey gear, and a smelly dog cage. and parked it at a mall. in texas. for two days. then put a febreze car vent clip on the dash and let in real people. it smells good. like laundry fresh out of like the dryer. yeah. a man fresh out of the shower.

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choose double miles or 2% cash back on every purchase every day. what's in your wallet? [ crows ] now where's the snooze button? a new edition to the buffalo zoo. a smiling 3-month-old polar bear cub made her debut there today. the zoo says that it's one of the only two zoos in north america to have polar bear birth since last year. the cub is still too small to exhibit. so for now we can only see her on closed circuit televisions. we're trying to if anything you your out the name. do we know if she has been named? . there's the beautiful polar bear club there. good saturday to you. here's a quick look at other stories making news right now. this is the sixth stop on his ninth country tour. he'll meet with mohammed morsi tomorrow. more gruesome details in the

jodi arias trial. arias took the stand yesterday and tearfully described how she shot, stabbed and slashed her ex-boyfriend in 2008. arias and her lawyers insist that she was acting in self defense. space ex says it is fixed the problem that prevented a car go run to the space station. the rocket this ruster system stopped it from reaching the space station yesterday. they will relaunch the rocket as early as tomorrow. >> this has been very, very tough for us. because it's not -- i know that it's just four wall ls. but what is inside of the four walls is plenty of people's lives and memories. >> that was wanda carter there. she lived in the home damaged by the sink hole in florida. jeffrey bush has been missing since thursday night. that's when part of his house

fell into the massive sink hole. they're assuming that he was killed. no they're evacuating nearby homes because the sink hole is spreading. i understand that there is a news conference that is scheduled with authorities right now. what can we expect to hear at the news conference? #. >> we're expecting a news conference within a half hour or so. we expect to hear the progress of the investigation. they have not been able to make it inside the house. we don't know how big the hole has become. earlier they told us it appears to be widen and deepening. and ate i peers to have grown. the houses on either side of the original home are being threatened. those two families, we have seen them pulling out their belongings. each of them had about 30 minutes or so to take out all of their belongings. in the last briefing, authorities did tell us that the

home just next to the original home had been compromised. it's possible that the other home may be experiencing a similar situation. but we just don't know at this point. authorities had such a hard time investigating this because of the safety issues. even though florida is known for sink holes, they say this one is unpres debited because suddenly it happened and it's contained inside the home. the exterior is still intact. it really doesn't look like anything happened. they could demolish the home if they can't get inside of it. we're expecting to get more information in about half an hour or so, craig? gabe gutierrez is in south florida for us. gabe, thank you. is it possible that the compromise in washington can happen now that the sequester is taking effect? i talked to former white house

press secretary robert gibbs. he's now an msnbc contributor. we talked about why no deal was reached to avoid the sequester in the first place. take a listen. >> at this point compromise is a word in washington that if you say you have to bleep out. it's a bad word. and many people in washington are far more concerned about a primary challenge from their right in the case of house republicans than they ever are about being in a district where a democrat can beat them. so right now there isn't a lot that compels working across party lines right now. and i think what the president is betting on is that this pressure publicly through ending some services that people find obviously necessary, reducing our military readiness and reducing our economic the growth is really the only tool that he has in his arsenal to move republicans back to the table.

hi cannot compel them to do something that fundamentally they don't want to do. oo historic day at the supreme court this week. wednesday the high court heard arguments on undoing parts of the voting rights act. at issue is a provision that requires some states with a history of voting discrimination to get federal approval before they make changes to voting rules. conservative justices suggested that the modern south had grown grown the troubled past. listen to chief justice roberts and solicitor general who is representing the justice department. >> is it the government's submission that the citizens in the south are many racist than citizens in the north? >> it is not. i do not know the answer to that. but i think it was reasonable. >> which is it? you said it's not and you don't know the answer. >> it's not our submission as an objective matter. i don't know the answer to that question. >> let's go ahead and bring in the brain trust.

political columnist at the "washington post." also an msnbc crib tor and amy holmes is an anchor at the blaze. she was also a speech writer for former senate majority leader bill frist. she is not on twitter. don't try to tweet her. the solicitor general can't answer the question about whether southerners are racist. in an article that you wrote you said that the question that the chief justice that he posed, that the question itself was unfair. why do you think so? >> i don't think it was unfair. i thought it was a surprising question. it was a trap question. how do you say one party is more racist than the other or less racist or so on? the question goes to the point that the conservative jus stiss, robert scalia, et cetera, they feel that the country is moving to a post racial direction. they're trying to get this all cut out of it. they want to get rid of the voting rights sector.

they get rid of integration plans. and we're going to move beyond race and the first step to get there is to get it out of our laws versus a lot of people feel like we're not beyond race yet. we had a bunch of voter id laws. bhit unemployment is 7%. we have to acknowledge the racial differences that still exist in the country. >> this is justice scalia suggesting it was reauthorized back in 2006. that it's perhaps political correctness run wild. take a listen. >> whenever a society drops racial entitlements, it's very difficult to get out of them through the normal political processes. i don't think there's anything to be gained by any senator to vote against continuation of this act. and i am fairly confident it will be reenacted in unless a

court can say it does not comport with the constitution. >> sounds like an activist there, amy. >> indeed he does. the concept of federalism versus the concept of judicial activism. i wasn't hearing a legal argument. i was hearing a political argument. and conservatives like judd gregg told your very own network that this should be left to the legislative process and the supreme court shobt take it upon itself. i don't come clown cleanly on this. aam persuaded that in 2006. 390 house members voted to reauthorize the act. practically unanimous. these are the people we said to make the decisions about how we enact our democracy. as a conservative, there's an argument to be made to say, and defer to that. >> how surprised were you about the the exchange this week that we saw at the supreme court?

>> well, i was in the chamber listening to the argument. i thought it was extraordinary. you close your eyes. it's getting harder to tell the you're listening to justice scalia or rush limbaugh. that is correct. that was not a legal argument at all that he made. and it turns them on their head. it's been all about leaving judgments and deferring to the elected branches of government and not being act vikt judges. basically scalia is saying i would like to leave things to the government. in which case i'm going to be clairvoyant and say i don't think they really mean to do that. they were just afraid and they couldn't avoid voting for it. that sounds like a bunch of ma l larchy. i've always kept my eye on her...

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we have been talking about a challenge by the supreme court to a key provision in the voting rights act. this is chief justice roberts asking solicitor general about race and voter turnout in the states. take a listen to this exchange. >> do you know which state that has the worst ratio of white voter turnout to african-american voter turnout? >> i do not. >> massachusetts. do you know who has the best? mississippi. which state has the greatest disparity between registration between white and african-american? >> i do not know. >> massachusetts. >> amy, we should note here that the massachusetts secretary of state insists that the chief justice got it wrong there. but what do these arguments in general tell us about the north

versus south split when it comes to racial equality in the state? it tells us the supreme court thinks we shouldn't have one and there's racism all around america. should these particular states have to get permission from the d.o.j. because of historical race itch for which the voting package was passed? i was defer to the congressmen and the senators for the very state who is voted to reauthority the voting rights act. i'm not sure the supreme court should be making decisions based on polling data of race. >> what do you think here? you know, when you talk about racism in the north and racism in the south, 40 years ago, there's general consensus that it was different. is it still different? >> it was much different then. i wouldn't be able to say how different today. it's much different today than the 1960s. there's much less racism all over the country.

particularly in the south, than in 1965. that said, there's -- the county that was at issue in this particular case has had a lot of voting rights problem in the past, as have several states throughout the house. we had a lot of controversial laws this election in the south particularly about voting rights in florida, mississippi, south carolina. and so most of those laws were not passed in the north, they may go to a republican democratic difference. i till think there are racial challenges that exist that he seemed to gloss over in his argument. >> you look at alabama. there's a state. there's not a single african-american elected statewide. that's the case for a couple of other states. south carolina included. there's still not a black senator elected in the country. you were in the courtroom. i want to play what civil rights icon john lewis said on politics nation on thursday. this is john lewis responding to justice scalia's remarks about,

quote, the perpetuation of racial entitlement. take a listen. >> it is just appalling to me. it is an affront to all the civil rights movement do it for. people die for. people bled for. >> this has an affirmative action case on the docket as well. what will be the legacy of the roberts court? terms of racial issues? >> well, on this particular one, assuming they go in the direction they're going, which will be a 5-4 decision to invalidate section five of the voting rights act, it will be a court standing up to the will of the elected representatives. what was particular interesting is the way this was rewritten in 2006 allows states and jurisdictions that have had particularly good records to be taken out of the preclearance in section five and states and clearance with particularly bad records to be put into it.

so it's not merely a case of picking on the south and people recognize that there's discrimination all over the place. the court is still very young. and there's time to make good on that. tl certainly a way to scale back what scalia is talking about in terms of racial entitlements without invalidating the very core on what is really a landmark piece of civil rights legislation in this country. >> perry, if the high court does decide to cut this thing or if it alters section five in a dramatic way, what's the immediate impact? >> they the pass laws they otherwise wouldn't have been able to pass. texas and south carolina passed voter i.d. laws. then eric holder basically blocked them. that would not happen in the future. you could still have courts strike those laws down in the state law. but it goes from a process where they have to get a preclear to where you have to fight against

them after they are already enacted. >> and interesting i'm sure people say this is what it's about the impact would be on the hispanic community, not the frern american community so much. we moved forward on race. you mentioned south carolina. tim scott beat thurman and is now a senator from south carolina. >> i don't know if you have seen how that is drawn, though. >> president obama won virginia twice. so we know that we're moving forward. the question is, sh this a constitutional issue versus a political one? >> that's generally the argument that is made by a lot of folks on that particular side of the argument that we have achieved in a lot of ways this post racial, not utopia, but we have received a fair amount of post racial success, if you will. >> i think the tim scott case is a good one. so here you had a lot of

conservative white largely evangelical voters electing an african-american. a very conservative one. they were making decisions based on his politics, obviously, and not base on the the color of his skin. that said, i think you would be foolish to say as people did in those days after the 2008 election that we somehow live in a post racial america. i don't think certainly after we we have seen over the last few years that anybody would say that is indeed the country we are living in. >> let me note. >> that's a conservative estimate. >> and a conservative point often made about the president's economic policies. >> i'm not sure whose fault it is. it's a reality of life in america. >> i love the fact that you bring it back to reality, sir. when we come back. a threat from the advice or something in between. the story that a lot of people in washington especially have been talking about this week.

did the white house seek to silence legendary journalist bob woodward and why have we spent so much time talking about this all week? our brain trust will weigh in on that one next. this is another! ta-daa! try charmin ultra strong. it cleans so well and you can use up to four times less than the leading value brand. and it's four times stronger. charmin ultra strong. but they haven't experienced extra strength bayer advanced aspirin. in fact, in a recent survey, 95% of people who tried it agreed that it relieved their headache fast. visit fastreliefchallenge.com today for a special trial offer.

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the headline in the "washington post," your newspaper was, woodward says that he was threatened. >> i never have. come on. you know that. >> they got the impression from what you said that you felt you were being threatened. when the full e-mails came out, they were as cordial as can be. his e-mail was cordial. your response was cordial. if you felt for it, why didn't you say don't threaten me? >> i did not feel threatened. what i have said david, and come on, you are putting words in my mouth. i said i don't think this is the way to operate. and you and i have had many

discussions. you never said to me oh, you're going to regret doing that. am i correct? >> that was an exchange between bob woodward and david axelrod from "morning joe." the topic, the same thing everyone has been talking about. did the white house threaten bob woodward. ? the brain trust is back. chomping at the bit here. so we'll start with you, sir. in your column, by the way, i don't go plugging other people's columns here. pretty good reading this week. it was pretty comical. you point out on the day of the sequester set, yesterday, people in washington were more interested in talking about the back and forth between bob woodward and the white house economic adviser, who did or did not threaten him, so what did we learn about our seat of power from this episode, dana? >> we learned we should shut this place down and have it run out of some rational place like,

i don't know, manhattan or somethin something. >> that wasn't from just this issue either. >> this is extraordinary. i mean, the american economy is about to be dealt a shock. it's begun already and sort of in slow motion. all we're talking about is did jean threaten bob? not a very threatening or menacing figure. and it's all this inside baseball talk about who said what to whom. in an e-mail. did the white house move the post? my answer to all of that is who cares? why can't people focus on what is making the difference? it seems to be a disease we have around here. >> first of all. he managed to stay in the news cycle for a long time. >> apparently attempts to shut

bob woodward up fair miserably. >> he did go to politico. i want to direct that question to dana. why did bob woodward tell your newspaper about this menacing threat from craig sperling? >> who is anchoring the show anyway? >> that's why i didn't cut her off. that's the question i want to ask you. >> this is what he wrote in last sunday's "washington post" on the the same day where my column appeared. his got more stage views than mine did. so i'm glad the debate was started in the "washington post." morning joe and politico goated him to go further into this grudge match with the white house. i suspect that's one he wouldn't go down. >> really quickly here, really quickly. in fact we're going to have to end with you because we're running out of time. what do we know about the way

the white house treats reporters compared to past administrations? >> i don't think it's that different. i got a lot of mean, sharp e-mails. that said, a lot of white houses try to intimidate reporters, try to aggressive with them, yell at them. i've gten much worse e-mails to be honest. >> probably from folks in this building. always a pleasure, good to see you all. i hope you come back. thank you for being the brain trust. that will do it for me on this fine saturday. stay with msnbc for the latest news updates throughout the evening and be sure to come back tomorrow afternoon, 3:00 eastern after "meet the press." i will be asking him for the inside scoop on ashley judd's potential run against mitch mcconnell and "meet the press", the exclusive tomorrow. david gregory talking to john boehner. have a fantastic saturday night.

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