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behold...the islands of the bahamas. gay marriage, the fiscal cliff, gun safety reform, and talking to eric cantor. is joe biden the atlas of the democratic party? it's tuesday, march 5th, and this is "now." joining me today msnbc political analyst and former dnc communications director karen finney, editor of the "new york times" book review, sam tenne northeast haus, host of the economist msnbc show martin bashir and chairman of the slate group, the most powerful person on this panel, quite clearly, jacob weisberg.

>> tallest dwarf. >> for the first time in his second term president obama huddled with his cabinet on monday afternoon. their to do list is long. >> one of the things that i have instructed not just my white house, but every agency is to make sure that regardless of some of the challenges that they may face because of sequestration, we're not going to stop bork. >> leading the charge on one of the president's top priorities is the veep, joe biden, who has been tasked with gun safety reform, but there are other signs that the scranton scrapper may have considerably larger role in the coming seasons. a white house aide hinted as much last week. he will be more important in the second term. he has proven to be invaluable to the president. biden has indeed been invaluable and at times encourageable as the principle closer, deal maker, and wing man. during the campaign, biden was the president's ambassador to

blue collar voters and the rust belt, following the president's less than awesome debate performance in early october, bideern took his turn on the stage prompting jonathan alter to declare joe biden may have saved barack obama. months later captain biden swooped in to save the fiscal cliff deal. newspapers crowned the hero, joe biden and mitch mcconnell saved america from fiscal cliff. >> i feel good. >> look at those two thumbs up. >> junior mints joe bailed out secretary of state john kerry as the syrian op sfligs leader threatened to boycott a meeting during kerry's first diplomatic trip abroad. it was joe biden to the rescue. the "new york times" reported mr. biden sealed the deal with a follow-up call. this afternoon the veep is sure to dispense a few pearls of wisdom to former colleague and incoming secretary of defense chuck hagel, and yesterday at apac the vice president worked

to ease tension between the white house and israel ahead of president obama's first official trip to the country. speaking before prime minister benjamin netanyahu, biden mounted a strong defense. >> let me make clear what that commitment is. it is to prevent iran from acquiring a nuclear weapon, period. period. end of discussion. period. president barack obama is not bluffing. >> though he remains second in command without a doubt, biden has played the lead role in cajoling, deal make says, and sweet talking. perhaps richard ben cramer talked about bazooka joe. when joe biden gets going on a deal, he'll talk that deal until it's shimmering before your eyes in god's holy light, like the tauj ma hall. where do i sign? martin, it's just fun to run through all the stuff joe biden has done in the last year.

do you think it's good to put a lot of this work on the vice president? >> i don't think he has a choice because joe biden has played the role of military advance guard. he looks for the opposition, prepares for attacks against the agenda, but he also plays backup, so when the most scourilous attacks on the president, joe biden comes in behind and says he is not bluffing on iran. he is not bluffing. in a sense, joe biden's role has been defined not by joe biden, but by the way the president has been attacked and undermined, particularly scurilously by republicans. that's why joe biden has to play that role. >> do you think there's an issue when joe biden says it, the world knows america means business and that the president -- i mean, that the

same sort of sense of authority is not conferred upon -- >> no, i don't think that applies outside of this country, but i think internally that's the fundamental problem. that's why joe biden has the role that he has. >> caryn, let's talk about the hill because that seems to be -- i mean, really biden's baileywick, not surprising given his history there. you know, i think we talk about the divide between republicans and republicans and republicans and republicans and democrats. the relationship between joe biden and republican leadership is pretty profound. the fact that eric cantor said this about joe biden, so much of washington right now is devoid of any kind of human contact or relationship. joe biden is someone who understands political sensitivities, understands he and i come from different political places, but he is focused on trying to reach a result. that's eric cantor. >> well, here's the thing. here's where i think the president and vice president compliment each other very well. the president doesn't like the sausage making. he is, like, where are we trying to go, just get to the deal? joe biden loves the sass auj

making. he loves the deal making. he loves being in the middle of it, and he has a level of credibility that really nobody else in the white house has because he has worked with so many of these guys for so long. they know him. they know they can trust him, and it's a very different relationship because also with the president it's a much more contentious relationship because i think there is that sense that he doesn't enjoy the sausage making and doesn't enjoy the senate as it's -- sort of as the institution and the way that i think biden kind of relishes it and works within it. >> as we look towards the calendar, i mean, the president has a fairly aggressive agenda in terms of the legislation he wants to see put forward. you have to imagine that joe biden is going to play an outsized role in getting that passed. >> biden has one key asset obama lacks. he likes people.

>> speaking earlier -- >> i wouldn't have said it if -- >> when the president was speaking earlier, he said i'm a nice guy. i like to have parties. they just don't like coming over and being friends with me. it seemed to me -- >> all right. how about all the other world leaders he has made close friendships with? are you done naming them? there are none. he doesn't form relationships. it's not what he does. >> how about the reaction after newtown? it was very clear that that hit the president hard emotionally. if you are somebody who doesn't like people, you sht going to have that kind of emotional reaction. i don't think that's -- i do think the difference is that biden wears his emotions a little bit more on his sleeve than the president does, and accesses them in a different way sort of old style politician way that obama doesn't. >> well, i think there is a difference here. maureen doud wrote a couple of interesting columns before the election in which he pointed out that when obama gave campaign

speeches, you didn't see other democrats on the stage with him. there wasn't this kind of natural palling around that biden is really good at. what i think of it in two ways. there's a lot of talk about how lebron james is the anti-michael jordan. biden is the anti-dick cheney. he puts the sunny face, the sunny side on the policies. remember how obama's support of same-sex marriage came out. because biden went out and said something about it. he is obama's id. obama is very constrained, controlled. this is what he has to be because of who he is historically. >> the president has the head and biden has the hands. >> and they share a heart. >> they do, but i think there was a great point there. dick cheney didn't care what anybody thought about him if he had all the power. biden doesn't really care about the power. he wants to be liked, and he is liked. >> he doesn't mind being made fun of either, which is rare in

a politician. >> he doesn't mind being made fun of, but he has credibility with a lot of different groups. i mean, think about, you know, there's a great piece in "huffington post" about one summer in 19 2 he was a lifeguard and a pool and how that affected his thoughts about race and class and that that is something he took with him to the fight about the assault weapons ban, and so clearly this is a guy who is the sum total of a lot of different experiences that he is not afraid to, again, wear it on his sleeve. >> this is the man that said of eric cantor, this is our vice president, right? the man who works for barack obama whose deal -- whose grand bargain was scuttled in large part by eric captor. vice president biden said about eric cantor, this is a man who has kept his word and a mau man who is viewed as the anti-administration person, who is you've ammistic at best. he kept his word. they were speaking about the violence against women act, but can you imagine, martin, the president of the united states saying he is a friend of mine, he has kept his word, and, i mean, there is -- there is not

so much daylight as this is night and day in terms of where -- between these two men. >> can i give obama -- go ahead. >> here's what could change now. i think part of the affection for biden that a lot of people have is sort of predicated on the idea he didn't really want anything. he was pretty old when he took the job. nobody really thought he was going to try to succeed obama as president, and the first term it wasn't really an issue. i think that might change. i think biden does want something. i think biden has gotten kind of interested in being president. in fact, this scuttle but that he thinks he is running. it's a private joke he has with himself. nobody else thinks he would be a very strong candidate, but that changes the dynamic. if you are tying to get that job, people relate to you very differently than if you are at the end of your career or helping someone else. the president has been making a number of cabinet -- there's a lot of talk about obama ushering out the form of rivals, and he is bringing out his folks. at this point it's a mixed wag,

if you will. i mean, in john kerry, he doesn't have someone who is particularly close in the way that susan rice might have been. chuck hagel and he seem to share some sort of views about things but are not particularly personally close. where does joe biden fit into that cabinet dynamic? >> he doesn't, but he is the guy that can kind of cross over, you know, all those lines, and just going back to eric cantor for a moment. it's easier when you are the vice president to do the good cop, bad cop thing. you can be the guy to say cantor is my friend. there's an element of work in the politics. i think with regard to the cabinet, though, think about -- i think what the president is looking at is, you know, these are various -- he is thinking about them in teams. the foreign policy team kerry and hagel are a team. biden has worked with both of them. then on the economic side, now that you've got, you know, a lot of the former clintonites working toad together. jack lew was sylvia's boss.

that's how the president has been thinking about these things and sort of pods, if you will, of different teams. they all know each other even if there's not the same kind of inner circle around the president, but, again, i think the vice president has clearly become one of the president's most trusted advisors. >> if not emissaries. i want to say one thing, martin. independent of sort of different than obama's his style is almost inacronystic. it's an old style of politics that you don't see practiced much longer. michael schere writes on biden agency negotiating, "he gets up close and makes them understand that he understands. in iraq he knows the names of the faction leaders' kids. he even teen massoud's grandchildren to see the motorcade to see air force two. strom thurmond and robert byrd asked them to give them eulogies. that is a testament how broad his appeal is.

>> i think karen made the point earlier about good cop bad cop roles. the president is restrained by the office that he carries and the burden of that. joe biden isn't. so he is able, i think, to engage on a personal level with leaders internally, dmesly and overse overseas. actually, he has learned an enormous amount through his career, and i think that's a tremendous reflection on him, but i don't think it necessarily should be used to critique someone who is that much younger. obviously one-term senator himself, the president. not as experienced in those terms in d.c. >> i'm not using it as a sort of weapon to criticize the president, but i do think it is -- it's pronounced his power in the white house.

not just because of sort of the outreach and the marketing and the branding for the obama administration, but also because he gets it done. i mean, this is the closer. this is the guy that negotiated us off the fiscal cliff. >> yeah, that's important shift, though. remember, at the beginning of the first term there was all this anxiety about not having biden overshadow the president, in part, because of their age difference and experience difference, and now they kind of have fallen into this nice sort of roles where, you know, biden is joe biden, right? like, you got to love the guy. like you said, he is the id to president obama. >> it's good management. if you are an intro veteran, hire an extrovert. >> after president obama chose biden. there was an interview on "60 minutes." biden was haunteded by this history of mrajerizing speeches, and he was asked a question about it, and he froze, and obama put his hand on biden's knee, and he said the people know, joe.

that shows you the perception that obama had. this is the guy he needed. i think jacob is right. if you are a comfortable and confident leader, yeah, you're happy to have this guy who can do all this stuff. that's not a problem. >> it's not laverne and shirley. >> we keep descending -- >> basketball is probably a safer -- >> be safe. >> when we come back, he has a new book, a slimmer wasteline, and a changed position on immigration, and then, of course, there is the last name. is it possible, is it possible, that jeb bush might have his sights set on 2016? we'll talk eyes on the prize next. ♪

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jeb bush is making waves, but this time it is not as the moderate warning the gop about it is demographic crisis. he is taking a tougher stance on immigration, and in an interview with nbc's chuck todd, sounding a lot like a guy running for president. >> you are being much more open about considering national office than i have ever heard you before. what's different this time? >> well, i'm not saying yes. i'm just not saying no, and -- >> that's what's so different. you used to be pretty definitive. >> i have accomplished some things in my life that allow me now to have that kind of discretion to be able to think about it. the question is how do you win with purpose and meaning that allows you to have a chance to

win in the general election? >> the former florida governor is on a media tour promoting his book, immigration wars. something likely to come up at his address at cpac later this month. while presidential speculation is always good for book sales, there's another sign that bush may actually be running. he is backing down on moderation and trying to prove his conservative bonafides. >> the principle on the line what we've proposed is that if you don't have a difference between a path to citizenship or a path to legalization, you are going to create a magnet going forward for more illegal -- >> it is an bankrupt change of heart considering bush's position just last year. >> have you to deal with this issue. you can't ignore it. either a path to citizenship, which i would support and that does put me probably out of the mainstream of most conservatives, or a path to legalization, a path to residency of some kind. >> bush's new stance puts him at

odds with senators john mccain and fellow florian marco rubio, a potential opponent in 2016. a desire to take down would-be rivalled might also explain bush's criticism of fellow republican chris christie. >> it makes me look svelt too. >> he does. >> i'm looking for that. >> that's why you did sdmroosh you just -- you were thinking christie when you looked at me. >> i think there was some disappointment in how governor christie dealt with the budget issues related to sandy. i think the issue of castigating the house particularly for not going along with a $60 billion spending deal that had very little to do with sandy recovery. that's what i think was the critique. >> the former governor's attempt at rehabilitation of brand bush has been afoot since last summer culminating in this week's media blitz, but with other show horses in the stable, where does jeb fit? martin, you have a copy of "immigration wars" that you read over crumpettes.

>> no, bran flakes. i haven't been able to complete reading it. i got it about 15 minutes ago, but i do note that it appears to contain his former position, which was the one represented in the earlier interview, which is that he does believe in a pathway or did believe in a pathway to citizenship, but now because marco rubio does, he doesn't. >> he is certainly -- he is certainly obfuscated, if we can give him that, so i guess i wonder what is the thinking here? jonathan chait has an analysis titled "jeb bush, never mind my immigration shocker." this morning bush started wriggling out of the trap he set for himself. on morning joe he declared that this business about path to citizenship is technical mumbo jumbo that a humble country lawyer really can't understand. bush has always tried to occupy the most liberal yet acceptable ground on immigration within his party and that's the space he is racing to seize again. >> jeb bush reminds me of charles barclay who claims to be

misquoted in his autobiography. when you are going to write these books, you really should read them too, which is a bit of a comment on the state of the political -- the political tract memoir. i think bush is making himself a little ridiculous. i went to a press breakfast with him this summer, and he was taking his former position, and he was really pushing it. he was saying i'm really out of sync with the party. i'm -- mainly because of immigration, but i think the party is so far off to the right, and he was very critical of the tea party, and that's the right position. i mean, the tea party has cost the republicans the senate. it's made the party -- the republicans unelectable in so many states. now for him to be trying to reposition to the right, and you look at this in the context of his career where jeb bush has gone left to right to left to right again, you know, he starts to look like mitt romney. it's not a good place to be. >> and the problem, remember sshgs that during the primaries

last time around, we had the great memorian cain offering us an answer to immigration that was form in a moat are alliga r alligators and electrified fence. does he go right of that? for two months herman cain was the frontrunner, so is that what is required? that's what he seems to be hinting towards in the way he is reforming his position on immigration. >> i think that there are two things to unpack here, karen. one is jeb bush, the psychology of the bush -- the bush -- of the bush dynasty, but also, you know, his prospects in terms of 2016, but the other is actual immigration reform, and to my mind, look, jeb bush has been a leader on this. especially within his own party. there is a sense here that they need to move on immigration reform, but when you have someone like this who has been an outspoken advocate for a more humane series of reforms around immigration and he is sort of tacking back and forth, i think it undermines the work that the senate is doing to get some sort of sensible immigration reform that includes a path to

citizenship. >> to some degree i think that's exactly the point. as martin said, now he salgts bit to the right of rubio, and i think there's a tension between rubio and jeb bush here because, you know, they share donors, they share supporters. i do think there's a sense that if jeb decides he is going to get in, that's going to mean rubio. it's going to make it harder for rubio to get in. clearly over the last few weeks rubio is part of the gang of eight. it has taken a lot of heat for taking a more liberal position. you have to believe that jeb kind of looked at that, looked at the numbers and figured out, well, let me parse this a little bit, and i listen to the language. i will bet you that there will be very compassionate conservative language about this sort of second class of citizen that is created under his immigration sort of frame, but also look at the reality of the republican primary. if you listen to his rhetoric, there's that classic law and order, right? he was just saying those people will come here. well, if we create a magnet. >> the magnet. the reintroduction of the magnet -- >> that is an old -- >> when does self-deport come

up? >> let me tell you, it's interesting, the romney people are furious because they feel like jeb attacked him for his position throughout the cycle, and now is he in the same position. >> just a quick reality check. jeb bush met his wife in mexico. she is mexican. his children are technically latino. they are referred to by his father as the little brown ones once. i mean, this issue has people talking about this as if they have no personal relationship to it. for him to do anything other than be an advocate of robust and fairly open immigration is absurd and hypocritical. >> this, sam, goes to the fundamental problem here. there is a difference between actually legislating as a republican in office as a governor i'll say and actually running for office, which is to get through that primary season, you have got to tack further and further and further, and what's amazing to me is nobody seems to have learned the lesson of mitt romney, which is you can't be

everything to everybody, and if you were once a moderate, you should probably stick to some sort of code of ethics because otherwise you're nothing to everyone. >> well, one of the stranger more bizarre facts in american history is that since 1968 no republican has been elected president unless there was a nixon or bush on a ticket, and that's the biggest thing he has going for him is he is a bush. when the party is desperate for some kind of leadership. his comments now remind me of a great thing eisenhower said early on. he was going to give a press conference about mccarthy. eisenhower said, don't worry, i'll just confuse them. >> that's exactly -- >> this is what he is trying to do now. what's useful to him about christie is bush can say to some people here's a guy who is further left than i am. so he can say to the base i'm really one of you, but jacob is absolutely right. one of the strengths of george

bush -- george w. bush is he suddenly looks like he belongs in mount rushmore. he had a really compassionate connection to that latino population. in texas that went back to his days as a governor, and this is supposed to be one of jeb bush's strengths. >> the suggestion of george w. bush on mount rushmore. >> i'm just going to ask karen, what do you think, karen, bush does, jeb bush does, if the president introduces and secures reform of immigration. what does he do at that point? >> i think he is going to have to be supportive of parts of it and make the case that he would have done it a little bit differently if we end up to the path to citizenship. >> then he becomes. it's a reputation of the same. >> we have a few years. people will forget. i'm not kidding. i can imagine a political discussion where advisors say to him two years from now people will forget. we'll work it out. >> that's why i think this is premature to some extent. i don't think he needed to do

this. >> that i agree with. >> he is already trying to unwind it this morning. i think the affordable care act example is spot on. the republican party's plank, the one and only thing people agreed on was preel of the affordable care act. who did they nominate? mitt romney. the affordable care act. >> right. >> that's exactly the -- that's why i think jeb bush is probably trying to refine his position at the moment or confuse, as you were saying, in preparation for what may well be legislative change over the next two years. >> i have another question. in this -- because i'm a book guy, "new york times" book review, he couldn't get his book fixed in time. he had months after the election. >> let's look for version two on newsstands soon. coming up, the tacking back and forth on immigration is one of the many examples of scisms within the grand oel party. we will look at why the old dominion is not just for lovers anymore. that's just ahead.

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prescribed by rheumatologists. >> if you somehow doubted that the republican party was in the middle of an identity crisis, look for further than virginia's ken. be we will examine the latest example of the party's grand ole problems. that's next. [ birds chirping ] i'm your hot water heater. you hardly know i exist. that's too bad. 'cuz if my pressure relief valve gets stuck... [ booooooom! ] ...we hot water heaters can transform into rocket propelled wrecking balls. and if you got the wrong home insurance coverage, it's your bank account that might explode. so get allstate. [ dennis ] good hands. good home. make sure you have the right home protection. talk to an allstate agent.

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and his new boss told him two things -- cook what you love, and save your money. joe doesn't know it yet, but he'll work his way up from busser to waiter to chef before opening a restaurant specializing in fish and game from the great northwest. he'll start investing early, he'll find some good people to help guide him, and he'll set money aside from his first day of work to his last, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. >> state of virginia has seen plenty of major battles, and it is about to witness another. the 2013 governor's race. from the party that brought america todd akin, richard murdock, and herman cain, meet ken cuccinelli, attorney general, former state senator, tea party provocature, and

presumed nominee for virginia. most famous for suing the federal government over the affordable care act has a formidable track record. he is pro-life, anti-gay and a climate change denier. he is called the obama administration the biggest set of lawbreakers in america. he has equated medicare to mugging the sick and elderly. he has said that virginia has outgrown the institutionalized racism that will gave rise to the voting rights act. he has seed the epa. he has suggested that gays are not protected by the 14th amendment. he has said your social security number is being used to track you. while he may be the presumed nominee, his breed of ideology poses serious concerns for more moderate members of the gop. virginia's lute napt governor bill bowling, a republican and potential opponent, told the national journal in many ways i think our party is in search of an identity. are we going to be a party that's more interested in rigid idealogical confrontation, or are we iffing to be a party that's focused on getting things done? bobby kilberg, a prominent

republican operative said that everyone is iffing to be focused on virginia as an indication of the future direction of party nationally. it is exceptionally important that the direction be a mainstream direction. with that ken cuccinelli for governor. that's my addition. virginia, let's talk a little bit about the old dominion. president obama won in 2008 and 2012. since then the last democrat to win the state was l.b.j. in 1964. to say that this is a shift and that things are changing is an understatement. minorities may now make up 30% of the population. if you look at the numbers. the hispanic population in the last ten years has grown by 92%. asian population by 70%. the african-american population growing by 11%. these are -- these numbers -- this is a demographic reality. yet, here you have a race that's wide open, and terry mcauliffe, a presumed democratic nominee, is -- if i had to bet on it, and i'm not a betting woman, i bet he runs away with it because the

republicans once again are putting someone out there who has extreme views. >> i think it's that as well as terry has good relationships with the business community and as we know, some of these extreme views that cuccinelli has make the business community a bit nervous, and that means those folks live in virginia and vote in virginia, they give money. the thing that i think cuccinelli is hoping for, remember, it's not going to be a presidential election. yes, all those demographic shifts are true. terry is going to have to turn those voters out in order for it to make up the margin of difference. i think that's part of what cuccinelli is hoping for. he is probably also hoping that a lot of women don't turn out and vote given that he is for the vaginal probe, if you will. that's a part of the shift. it's also -- it will be interesting to see as the sequester plays itself out and we know that federal workers are going to be -- virginia is going to be one of the states that will feel it sooner rather than later. how does he react and respond to that? mcdonnell has had a pretty good tone on this.

it will be curious to see how cuccinelli responds? >> to that point the "new york times" had a front page piece this weekend about the fact that virginia is actually going to feel the sequester cuts harder than any other state. 90,000 civilian employees -- >> that's why the president went there on friday. >> you have to think that that is going to play into the 2014 race in some fashion. >> i think in cuccinelli case, you mentioned his book "the last line of defense." >> he has a new book out. >> he has a new book out. in part of it he believes there's value in fighting over everything, so the process is what matters. the outcome less important it seems to this guy. if he has a war about everything, whether it's the affordable care act and he loses or, you know, as you know, he questions global warming. he has authorize the state police to check on citizenship. >> what about social security? >> right. >> so -- but in his position m book is that principles are

fixed. it's only their application that needs to change. so his position is very much that dogmatic idealogical position you just laid out. i don't think he is thinking about the end product. he enjoys the that's what this is about. >> that's interesting, sam. i always think become that the great cover story you did in the white album, the sort of thesis about the republican party's strategy that's based on calhounism. it's giving a disproportionate amount of power to a minority in the face of majority domination. here he is taking that thesis and applying it to his own campaign, which is fight against power in every sense of the word, regardless of whether you actually end up winning in the end. >> martin put his finger on it. it's the lost cause. barry goldwater was the lost cause in 1964. fight for another day. make sure the principles aren't erased.

you know, now the party is going through this period of self-doubt. maybe they're really all liberal democrats, you know, like chris christie and jeb bush. what do we do? someone has to stand up for the things we really believe in. if we get hammered a little bit, okay, the faithful will still have us. next cycle comes around. he learns a little bit through the process. he positions himself. you know, somebody has to be the tribune for the tea party. that's still one of the bigger constituencies they have, and some people are going to go out and grab it. why not? >> jacob. you wrote the story in "vogue" about the castro brothers, and talking about all these demographic shifts and the states that have been previously solidly red, whether it's texas, that is maybe turning shades of purple or virginia, which is blue. we're looking at north carolina, nevada, colorado. the country is changing. the strategy on the republican side does not seem to be changing accordingly. >> no, that's right.

cuccinelli is clearly out of sync to run in a swing state. he is the kind of candidate who is going to deliver a race that republicans could win probably to democrats, but it's interesting. cuccinelli obviously represents the worst of the republican party right now. he is a tea party troglodite. he doesn't believe in global warming. he doesn't believe women have any reproductive rights. he has sort of been left out there. he bet on the sort of tea party, you know, a while ago. terry mcauliffe, let's not let him off the hook. he represents the worst of the democratic party, which is power achieved through money, selling of access, lobbying, connections. basically relationships based on connections with big business, and who do you blame for this race between the worst of both parties? >> the state of virginia. >> i blame the state of virginia, partly because they have a one-term term limit, which essentially says -- i think it's fundamentally undemocratic. you can't elect who you want if you have already elected them.

they say experience is a bad thing. if you have a governor that has learned how to do a good job, you're not allowed to re-elect him. the field is always being reopened to opportunists on both sides. >> martin, i want to -- before we have to bid you a fond adu, which is definitely the most painful part of this week so far. >> very good liar. >> that's why i'm on television. the republican strategist alex castianos looks at all this human cry and naval gazing to a certain degree and asserts this. he says i think the debates and discussions are a sign of life, vitality, and restless energy, exactly what we need. if i were a democrat right now, seeing this republican restlessness, i would take it seriously. something new is being born. ugly and bloody as all birth is, but new nevertheless. we'll get there. your thoughts on this? >> i think the analogy is wrong. it's more like a bonfire on bonfire night and you see it, of

course, the 5th of november when guy forbes tried to blow up the houses of parliament in the 15th century. you see it in the distance and it looks beautiful, but as you get closer and closer, you realize it's absolutely destroying everything that's there. that's the analogy. that's what they're doing. that's why to compare -- this is the same guy. let's be honest who said he has an all-star cast coming to cpac, which does not include chris christie because he has not had a stellar year. that's the guy who said that. i mean, his judgment on that has to be parsed to some extent. >> i would say it's also like if there is a birth you get closer and you realize the thing being birthed is frankenstein. >> or how about a rattling skeleton. >> everybody loves their own baby. >> that's true. we have to leave it there, but thank you to my colleague and really my inspiration for television. it's true. be sure to catch martin's economist show right here at

4:00 p.m. today and every day monday through friday on msnbc. this little channel we call home. coming up, sometimes there is nothing like a good old-fashioned field trip, especially when it comes to learning about history and this idea is at the heart of best selling author david baldacci's new project. we will ask him about american history 101 version 2.0 just ahead. max and penny kept our bookstore exciting and would always come to my rescue. but as time passed, i started to notice max just wasn't himself. and i knew he'd feel better if he lost a little weight. so i switched to purina cat chow healthy weight formula. i just fed the recommended amount... and they both loved the taste. after a few months max's "special powers" returned... and i got my hero back. purina cat chow healthy weight. otherworldly things.

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ates familiar cry -- kids today just don't appreciate history. best-selling author david baldacci is seeking to change that. he is most known for mysteries and political thrillers, and he is encouraging children to visit the smithsonian by host aing virtual tour, helping americans see the magic behind some of our nation's most storied treasures. joining us now is david baldacci. his new book "the 39 clues day of doom." i'm reading that with particular emphasis. it's out today. great to see you. thanks for coming on the show. >> let's talk about how you first got into the project. i grew up in washington. the smithsonian was an invaluable resource in terms of teaching me things and showing me parts of this country and the natural world. i think, you know, many terms of the marshall conversation around our history and our treasures it's often overlooked. >> it really is. scholastic just called me out of the blue and invited me to be one of the writers that they're going to include series, and

surprised me because i don't really write young adults, but they had read some of my adult stories where i had younger characters. i sort of had the ground rules set that i could kill people. once they said i could do that, i was pretty much set. >> there could be bodies. i'm in. >> i signed on the dotted line. it's been a tremendous experience, and it sort of combined by love of history. i was a political science major in college, and i -- in college basically all i did, i read lots of great books and wrote a lot of papers. this really brought my great love of writing and my great love of history together in one package. >> also i think it's interesting. you talk a lot about education on this show, and the redding eagle, which is a publication in pennsylvania informs that in the 2010 to 2011 school year 51% of districts nationwide reported eliminating field trips. a huge increase over the 11% reported in the prior cycle. that is -- when i think about school and probably the best parts of school involved leaving school and going on field trips,

and this is a great way of sort of bringing the classroom -- well, sorry -- getting kids out of the classroom while keeping them in the classroom. >> it really is. the cuts in education and the arts and everything else, it's easy for a politician to do that because the future can't vote yet, so wipe that out with a single stroke. the web cast, they get to go to the american history museum, see in a focused way several items and artifacts without having to burrow through lines and being confused and overwhelmed by things, and i think it is a great way to sort of take and counter act the affect that they have on all these budget cuts. you can't get out of school, but if you have a computer or television, you can go on and see something truly fascinating that might encourage you later to go to the real place. >> were mentioning that you saw some interesting things when you were at the american history museum. drawers full of treasures. >> that aren't even on display. you open a door, and you see general cornwallace's flagstaff that he surrendered or suffer jet banners.

tlmp a lot of young women in the film crew that day. it was ironic it was 1913, 100 years ago where women were still fighting for the vote, and you can see the epif any go off. young people and the museum, and they make the connection of why history is so important because if you don't know history, you are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past. that connection was brilliant. i wish it was part of the web cast, but i'm telling you right here today that it did happen. >> this is the director's cut. before we go, i want a roundtable survey of everybody's favorite museum or institution. jake, i'm going to start with you. >> in washington? >> anywhere. >> well, actually i think i might name the -- i might name the frick gallery here. >> very cultured of you. >> i think the problem in museums there's too much, and you get overwhelmed, and i look museums that, first of all, reflect someone's collection, someone's idea of something and that give you an intimate experience. so karen, one word, two words. >> museum of natural history here in new york. >> it's a winner. >> all-time favorite. >> one i just discovered, although i should have discovered it earlier. the yale art gallery.

not the british arts center, but the yale art gallery is quite amazing. a collection of modern. >> today it's got to be washington d.c., smithsonian. >> the virtual tour, decoding history kicks off just minutes from now. you can go to decoding history.psycholastic.com. get in on it. thank you. karen, sam, and jake. that is all for now. see you back here tomorrow at noon eastern, 9:00 a.m. pacific. until then you can find us at facebook.com/now with alex. andrea mitchell reports is next. i know you got to go in a minute but this is a real quick meal, that's perfect for two! campbell's chunky beef with country vegetables, poured over rice! [ male announcer ] campbell's chunky soup. it fills you up right. poured over rice! so if ydead battery,t tire, need a tow or lock your keys in the car, geico's emergency roadside assistance is there 24/7. oh dear, i got a flat tire. hmmm. uh... yeah, can you find a take where it's a bit more dramatic on that last line, yeah?

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