obama's claim that janitors and security guards at the capitol got a pay cut. another four for arne duncan's claim that teachers had already gotten pink slips. i know, i know, he's apologized you, but this is a rant for tv's sake. poll lit fax rated another claim by the president that federal prosecutors will have to let criminals go as mostly false writing that obama is exaggerating. as for the times, bill keller says obama is ultimately to blame for the sequester. despite spending a full week in campaign hysteria. even our own tom brokaw on this show yesterday gave the president in hindsight this advice. >> i think the president by my lights at least spent too much time in the last two weeks campaigning. he ought to have been maybe at camp david and said to boehner and his team and members of the republican side on the senate side bring the leadership up here. let's spend five days showing the public that we are interested in trying to make a

heroic effort to get a deal here. >> okay. i'm almost done but you have to love this just a little bit if you're me. we have stewart, "snl," "the washington post," "the new york times" all with me. i'll close this rant with kenny rogers the gambler. for his first term the president was a great gambler cleaning up as republicans folded on sequester. it hasn't quite worked out yet. so is the streak gone? is the dealing done? or will the president say deal the cards again as his friends in the media continue to pile on? okay. that does it for "the cycle." it's all yours. >> thanks. it's tuesday march the 5th and happy days are here again. wall street soars to a new record high eclipsing the previous record of 14,146 set back in october 2007. a bonanza for the men and women of wall street set amid the backdrop of a still uncertain economy. and, of course, john boehner

says those record profits are off limits. ♪ >> how do republicans feel again about cuts in spending? >> spending is the problem here in washington. it's a balanced approach to managing down the debt and deficit. >> the road show president should stop. >> we are going to manage it as best we can to minimize the impacts on american families. >> i am hopeful we will start getting serious discussions to cut spending. >> what an onerous result. their jobs are safe, their salaries are safe. >> now we're beginning to see the consequences of these republican priorities to cut, cut, cut. >> after all, republicans and nerds have so much in common. they both live in fantasy words and have no idea how to relate to women. >> our sons live close to an

open space area. we throw the ball to the dogs. >> he would have been a really fine president. ♪ it is a terrific tuesday on wall street. with the swashbuckling dow smashing records to smithereens hitting an all-time record high as the bell closes, a banner day for the stock market with a gold star for corporate earnings, but don't you dare try to touch a red cent because we begin with republicans revealing the next steps in their austerity agenda also known as the sequel to the sequester. cut harder, uncensored edition. house leaders have moved ahead with a stopgap measure to fund the government. shifting $10 billion to pentagon operations.

it requires the government to keep current staffing levels at detention centers for undocumented immigrants. boosts embassy security by $2 billion. and funds the government through september the 30th. but if the gop is working to mitigate disaster for defense, they're far from rolling back the sequester reductions. democrats wanting to restore head start or health care funding, of course, came away empty handed. indeed, new estimates from the congressional budget office show that under the stopgap bill, current appropriations levels will drop by about $59 billion leaving the president less real money to run government than george w. bush had five years ago. but as the democratic chairman pointed out, this is just the beginning. >> tens of thousands of kids will be kicked off head start programs and we also know that republicans are intent on following this up with perhaps the thing that most americans

don't see and should care about most and that is the next step, change medicare from a guaranteed program into a voucher. >> that's right. you remember paul ryan. >> we're also going to repeal obama care and replace it with real reform. >> yeah, that didn't quite pan out as he'd hoped but those ryan reforms are still on the agenda, including a potential hike in the medicare retirement age. back to his post as budget chairman, ryan will unveil the republican's budget next week and the headlines really do tell the story. paul ryan floats change to medicare plan. gop centrists balk at ryan medicare shift. republican goal to balance budget could mean deep cuts to health programs. new york republican peter king tells "the washington post," quote, i know a number of people who have real concerns about where this is going. one of the last presidents to

balance the budget was herbert hoover. oh, yes, happy days are here again. nbc's kristin welker joins us live from the white house. kristin, one imagines that each day the president wakes up believing that the white house -- sorry, that house republicans will see sense and perhaps pursue a more balanced approach and then they come up with another brilliant way to slash discretionary spending, cut programs for the poor. what's the white house saying about republicans' latest budget proposals? >> reporter: well, martin, good afternoon. it's interesting, the white house hasn't officially weighed in really. they say they are reviewing the latest cr proposal by republicans, only saying that the president has specific guidelines that include that it not be political, that it be a practical approach. so they haven't given a specific response to what they think about this. but you're right, the appropriations level has been set at a lower level in part because of the sequester. remember, democrats and the

senate are going to put their own plan forward in the coming days, so we'll have to wait and see how those negotiations pan out. but the one thing to keep in mind, there is a lot of pressure on both sides to avoid a government shutdown. you heard president obama reference that. you heard house speaker john boehner saying he wants to avoid a government shutdown. then when you look at the polling, we're getting a new poll out from cbs news/"wall street journal" which shows that 38% of americans blame republicans for this sequester debacle. 33% blame the president. so the blame is actually fairly equally spread. there's a lot of pressure on both sides to make sure this does not devolve into a government shutdown. in terms of what the white house specifically thinks about the republicans' latest proposal, they say they're still reviewing it. >> even as republicans plan to slash more, i hope your parents, harvey and julie, are not planning on touring the white house because all tours are being canceled. is that right? >> reporter: that is right. starting this weekend. i think you just made their

afternoon, martin. but that's right. the white house is planning to cancel tours starting this weekend. it's all because of staffing and restrictions with staffing, martin. trying to get specifics about how many people this will actually impact. at this point in time the white house hasn't released that information, but i can tell you in order to conduct these tours, it requires secret service as well as white house staffers. so as we know, the sequester is going to have a broad impact and we're starting to see the first ripple effects of it. >> kristin welker, thank you so much. for more on this i'd like to bring in our guest now, congressman peter welch, democrat from vermont with us from capitol hill. and here with me in new york is msnbc contributor joy reid who is also managing editor of thegrio.com. congressman, we've seen today an earth-shattering figure of the dow, and yet what do republicans tell us but they're planning for more brutal austerity to ordinary americans.

can you please reconcile these two things that are happening today in this nation because i just can't work these out. >> well, their focus is on corporate profits which have never been better. but disregarding wages that have never been lower. the amount of income in the profits that go to workers is the lowest it's been since 1966. so we've got a two-tiered economy now. and essentially what the republicans are designing is a budget where their goal is balance even at the expense of economic growth and middle class opportunities. there's two problems, martin, with that. number one, you won't get long-term balance without economic growth and middle class opportunity. the ryan budget increased the debt by $6 trillion over ten years. largely because instead of addressing health care, it essentially just offloads the cost onto individuals rather than taxpayers. so this is a dead end approach that they're taking. >> so are you, sir, going to

support the continuing resolution being put forward by republicans? >> i am not going to support that. this is a dead end. essentially they're targeting 44% of the cuts on 14% of the budget. and that's our kids, it's our education, it's our medical research. you cannot have an austerity that attacks what is the seed corn of the future. you can't do that particularly when right there we could get rid of the tax credit and save $6 billion, we could have prescription drug price negotiation and put in $160 billion in savings. and the republicans are taking the position that the current tax code that we all know is an absolute disgrace is sacred. it can't be touched. that's bizarre in my view, irresponsible. >> joy, i have to say it fems to me as though the sequester has put a certain spring in the step of one paul ryan who has now got the brutal cuts that he was longing for but his fingerprints

are not on it and now he can come up with a continuing resolution that just slashes away even more. >> i think you just read my mind. i was literally just about to say paul ryan is living his best life now. he seems giddy. i mean, he's finally getting to do all the things he wanted. literally taking out all of the pain of his austerity on the poor. this is all about cutting head start and cutting meals on wheels and programs to feed the eld elderly. >> and transportation services for the disabled. >> that's where he's always wanted to go after and he's bringing back his idea of voucherizing medicare. what's interesting is austerity has a terrible track record around the world. it's brutalized italy with six consecutive quarters of negative growth. >> 27% unemployment. >> in britain it caused a double dip recession. >> now it's a triple dip. >> even when economists tell republicans doing austerity destroys the economy, they don't care. this is balancing the budget for the sake of balancing the budget. it's now all ideology and also it's part of this social ideology, that the idea that

programs for the poor are actually wrong. they're immoral. >> they're a waste of money. >> because those people aren't productive. that you should spend federal money but spend it on business. give corporations more tax breaks because they're productive. it's part of this ayn randian philosophy. >> congressman, the white house has said they're still open to a big deal. we're seeing support from some quarters. republican senator lindsey graham says he just spoke with the president by phone. take a listen to what he said. >> i'm very encouraged by what i've seen from the president in terms of substance and tone. he's calling people. this is how you solve hard problems. what i see from the president is probably the most encouraging engagement on a big issue i have seen since the early years of his presidency. >> i'm really sorry to repeat history, but haven't we seen this before? the president compromises. the president goes to extreme lengths and guess what happens?

the sequester happens. or there's a fight other the debt ceiling, or the continuing resolution will be brutal. what's the point? >> well, you have got a good point. essentially graham is one of the folks who is saying we have to have more revenues. he said he's open to $600 billion to revenues and the president is trying to reach out and see if that can be done. the situation we're in now is paul ryan has essentially a dog ate the homework kind of budget. nobody has to take responsible for these brutal cuts that make no sense and are punitive to middle class and lower middle class folks who are trying to hang on. that's the biggest abdication of republican responsibility. our job, and they're in the majority in the house, is to make concrete and specific decisions and be accountable for them. by latching onto the sequester and hiding behind the veil of this sequester, they're abdicating in my view responsibility and they ought to have the courage to state specifically when and where and why they're going to cut, but they're hiding behind the sequester and it's going to do a lot of harm to the country.

>> joy, he lost the election with mitt romney by saying they wouldn't touch medicare for those over 55. now we're hearing today that that promise itself may change and the age could come down possibly to 50. >> and the age could go up because they're looking to boost the medicare eligibility and go after medicare in all the ways you wanted to before. in a lot of ways, losing the election was almost better for paul ryan than winning it. had they won the election, mitt romney and paul ryan would have had to spell out the pain they wanted to mete out on elderly people and children. this way they get to do it blindly because the cuts are so much across the board. it's what he wants but without having to put his name on it. >> i wonder if you can sum up for me the impact of the sequester on your constituents because every day i listen to john boehner, speaker boehner, one minute he says it's going to be terribly devastating for people, then he goes on "meet the press" and says i'm not sure it's going to have any effect. >> it's going to cost hundreds if not thousands of jobs in

vermont just as it will across the country. it creates a huge problem for our legislature because they're going to have to make a decision about trying to fill in some of the holes like home heating assistance or just have people suffer the loss of that. third, it's going to make it tougher for paints tparents trying to plan for their kids to go to college. it's about middle class empower am. there's a lot of blame on the republican office. wall street has never been happier. but that's not the real economy for most everyday americans. >> it is for republicans. it certainly feels that way. congressman peter welch, joy reid, thank you both for joining us. next, you know how you can tell jeb bush is running for president? he's flip-flopped on immigration. in just 24 hours. stay with us. >> he mixed up the jedi mind trick with the vulcan mind meld. i mean, who makes that mistake?

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jeb bush has left a lot of people guessing, not about 2016, but his opinion on a path to citizenship. because he's done more back flips than a dolphin, and that? just the last 24 hours. this is what he said until very recently. >> either a path to citizenship, which i would support and that does put me probably out of the mainstream of most conservatives, or a path to legalization, a path to residency of some kind, which

now hopefully will become -- i would accept that in a heartbeat as well. >> a path to citizenship, a path to legalization. whatever it is, he's for it. however, today he releases a book on immigration that he's co-authored where he writes, a grant of citizenship is an undeserving reward for conduct that we cannot afford to encourage. he even told nbc's matt lauer yesterday morning much the same thing. so now he's against it. right? well, no. fast forward a few hours to his interview with my colleague chuck todd, and here is his response. >> i think a path to legal status where people can come out from the shadows is satisfactory in that regard. >> i'll say this for mitt romney, once he flipped, he tended not to flip back. joining us now is david corn, washington bureau sheaf for "mother jones" magazine and lili gil valletta, co-founder of xl alliance and a hispanic market expert. good afternoon to both of you. david, how bad was this rollout

because lindsey graham, john mccain, and marco rubio have all chastised mr. bush. senate majority leader harry reid says jeb bush's position on immigration is not evolving, it's devolving. are republicans ready to be led by a man as unprincipled as mitt romney again? >> well, i guess the democrats can hope so. i think jeb bush looked at the last guy who got the nomination for the republican party and sees a path. that path is flip-flop, flip flip, flop flop, flip-flop. it's really quite stunning because if you go back and look at what he said on charlie rose, he was acknowledging that at the time he had a position that was outside the conservative mainstream, but he was a guy that a lot of people were saying, hey, the republicans want to get out of this mess they're in with latino voters. look to jeb bush. and then he goes and writes this book which obviously he wrote this book before the gang of eight, you know, or six, seven, 14, whatever it is came up -- >> gang of eight, yes. >> -- came up with the immigration plan. then he decides he's going to

take a harder line which puts him to the right of his mentee, marco rubio, who was the newest person to lead the republicans out of latino. it's all very confusing but there are four reasons why i think he's going to have trouble no matter what he does. those are b-u-s-h. >> yes. in putting himself to the right of marco rubio, should he stick with that position? could it give some republicans in the house enough cover to not vote for anything that is the path for citizenship. >> that's the most confusing. they're like wait a second, now we're trying to play compromise because we know we have to earn the latino vote in 2016, yet he is getting in the way of a bipartisan approach that seemed

reasonable. if he's trying to get branding for himself or get on the spotlight, guess what? he's getting it, we're talking about him. but is this the right strategic way to go at it? i don't think so. he's outflanking by going further to the right which makes no sense. >> well -- >> david. >> it makes sense for jeb bush political perspective maybe in that i think there is a coming civil war or brewing civil war within the gop about immigration. simply half the party, 70%, i don't know what the numbers are, that are not going to accept a path to citizenship. marco rubio, bless him as joe biden would say, is taking a stand that may alienate him from that. there's is going to be someone that has to lead the way for the other side and it may be ted cruz. it may be somebody else. and jeb bush now is in contention for being that person. it's kind of bizarre. >> lili, some conservatives are

not that happy with the former governor. byron york writes as book is published, jeb bush waivers on immigration proposal and matt lewis tweets, jeb bush's purpose seems to be to occasionally pop up, make sweeping or trite criticisms, and create problems for conservatives trying to lead. i have to assume, therefore, that today marco rubio must be a very happy man. >> absolutely. and, you know, you know the politics are wrong and the pr just went the wrong way altogether when even hispanic republican groups on twitter are going crazy over this. they were confused by the flip-flop, too, and disappointed that we have the good republican that was pro-immigration for so long, all of a sudden far, far to the right. we're just confused. >> okay. david, last question, in addition to jeb bush, we've just learned this afternoon that

another remarkable standard bearer will be speaking at cpac. ladies and gentlemen, none other than donald trump. david corn, your considered reaction to this momentous announcement. >> well, i understand he will be appearing on the birther recovery panel. so i hope it goes well. >> david corn, lili gil valletta, thank you. coming up, the boobs who think ashley judd's films will sink a potential senate run. stay with us. [ shapiro ] at legalzoom, you can take care of virtually all your important legal matters in just minutes. protect your family... and launch your dreams. at legalzoom.com we put the law on your side. when i first felt the diabetic nerve pain, of course, i had no idea what it was. i felt like my feet were going to sleep.

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judd senate run. here are today's "top lines." >> if you stack all the things that disappoint me by washington, it would be pretty tall. >> i love christie. >> i don't have first damn idea of what they're doing down there. >> you were thinking christi e when you looked at me. >> our goal is to cut spending. >> cannot sustain a message. >> people are tired of the political games. >> how do you talk about positive things rather than just feeling people's legitimate anger. >> honesty is obviously not the best policy for this white house. >> i wish mitt romney was president right now. >> if mitt romney had defeated president obama, we wouldn't be in this mess. >> people didn't really get to know mitt for who he was. >> matt and craig live close to an open space area. >> we humans, we call them parks. >> he would have been a really fine president. >> if we don't cut expensive things like head start, teachers, and stun loans, what

sort of future are we leaving for our children? >> i love being at the university of kentucky. i was in a sorority. i became aware of what was happening in south africa and then i joined the peace corps and i dropped out. i went to the other jungle, hollywood. got into this big pity party. how dare i be so pitiful when 1.3 billion people do not have access to drinking water. >> i can't wait to hear from the republicans. >> they both live in fantasy worlds and have no idea how to relate to women. >> college republicans and college democrats actually work in the same space? >> senate majority leader mitch mcconnell bears a striking

resemblance toed a mare really akbar. >> angela rye and ken vogel, welcome to you both. angela, she hasn't even declared herself a account but the very idea that ashley judd may challenge mitch mcconnell has led to what feels like another round of gender politics. do you think mcconnell supporters would treat, say, george clooney or daniel craig this way if they ran? >> well, martin, what we know for sure is that there's always been some separation when it comes to gender and politics. gender and the workplace. we're seeing this play out across the board. you know, with the president's first year we saw the lilly ledbetter act. there are all of these inequalities that exist, and i think it's up to us more progressive people and like-minded folks to really kind of push the buck here. ashley judd is a brilliant woman who happens to have some interest in the political process and has expressed that with or without this senate seat. so i think we need to see this

play out, but they're definitely applying a lot of pressure, some of which is not fair, particularly when you look at what just happened to mitch mcconnell's wife. you would think that as a son, as a husband, and the father of three daughters, he would just really start drawing a line in the sand about what's off limits. >> good luck with that, angela. ken, is it possible that an ashley judd run might actually be bad for democrats in that it would take the focus off mitch mcconnell and his blatant record of obstruction over the last 4 1/2 years? >> yeah. she seems kind of tailor made for mitch mcconnell's campaign style, which is sort of slash and burn. make it all about the opponent and make it extremely negative. there's a lot of turf there. there's a lot of fodder and some in kentucky privately expressed a view that maybe they would be better off, some democrats, with a more unknown candidate who is more of a blank slate and where the republicans and mcconnell's allies have to work a little bit harder to make the race all

about the democrat. that said, she would also be able to raise a ton of money which could be used both by her campaign and by a super pac supporting her campaign to turn that around and try to make it all about mitch mcconnell and as you put it and as they would probably put it, his record of obstruction. >> angela, the conservative website the daily caller appears somewhat interested in ashley judd. here is a small sampling of the steady stream of headlines about everything from her once dating michael bolton, the singer, to the fact she's appeared nude in the movies to cherry picking comments she's made over the course, as i say, of a 20-year career. can you explain how ashley judd is any different to other thespians like president ronald reagan or fred grandy or even sonny bono but for the fact they were all republicans? >> sure. again, we addressed it at the top. ashley judd is a progressive woman. she is a woman. and that is for starters the difference. it would be really great if the

daily caller and others like it could focus less on her naked form and more about the issues of concern politically to kentucky and otherwise. to ken's point, she will raise a ton of money. they could certainly utilize a candidate of her profile. we have to figure out how a to get the numbers out and get out the vote in 2014 and that's certainly a way to do it. but, yes, she is an actress. we have members of congress who serve in a variety of roles before they get here. some entrepreneurs, some farmers, some scientists and the like. they utilize their experiences as a foundation for how they develop policy, and i don't think we should shun her or hold her accountable to being naked in an art form. it's art. >> ken, to angela's point, i don't recall republicans being so angry when scott brown appeared with nothing but a very proud smile on his face in cosmopolitan magazine.

>> this is a little bit of a ham-handed attack i think focusing on anything related to her acting. however, there are -- there is a long paper trail there of comments that she's made. i should say maybe a long video reel of comments she's made as herself, tweets she's made that i think do potentially provide some rich fodder for republicans to cast her as, if nothing else, sort of different than the average kentuckian talking about herself as progressively and delightfully radical, saying that tennessee was home, which they have her on tape saying. even recently in her appearance before "gw saying she wintered n scotland. there's a lot there independent from roles she appeared in. >> shock horror, she holidayed in scotland. thank you both. next, some movement on gun safety while the nra targets a whole new type of gun owner. stay with us.

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switching to geico? happier than dikembe mutumbo blocking a shot. get happy. get geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. gabby giffords and her new organization, americans for responsible solutions, have launched an ad campaign calling for two specific republican senators, messrs. flake of arizona and grassley of iowa, to support universal background checks. >> we have a problem where we shop, where we pray, where our children go to school, but there are solutions we can agree on. even gun owners like us. let's get this done. >> on monday in colorado, giffords' husband mark kelly gave testimony along with

relatives of those shot to death in the aurora movie theater as the state considers a ban on high capacity magazines. but outside it was pro-gun activists who staged a protest against a series of gun control measures expected to reach the governor's desk by next month. goldie taylor is an msnbc contributor and managing editor of the goldie taylor project. all this activity comes as democratic senator pat lee hey and republican senator susan collins introduced a bill that would make gun trafficking a federal crime and crack down on straw purchasing. this is a rare bipartisan effort in the senate on guns and gabby giffords campaign comes as the judiciary committee takes up this bill and the assault weapons ban later this week. do you think this legislative activity is a positive sign that action on gun safety is coming? >> i think we will see some

action on the reform of our existing gun laws. for instance, we may see a universal background check be pushed through in a bipartisan way. we may also see a -- the federalization of, you know, straw purchasing. that's what's really driving crime in inner city communities where you have a legal gun owner buying 5, 10, 15, or 20 guns and selling them illegally on the street without a background check. so those guns go on to hurt people in those communities and then, you know, thus driving up murder rates. i think there are some real action to come out of this, but whether or not we'll see a ban on assault weapons, whether we will see a ban on high capacity magazines, that remains to be seen. that's something i am less and less very confident about. >> right. the nra, of course, has a very different view on all this. they are the new title sponsor of a nascar sprint cup race in texas next month. which appeals to a certain demographic. and then in an effort to appeal to a more diverse audience, they've introduced their newest

spokesman. he is an internet sensation doing ads for the gun lobby. >> it's not a gun problem, not even a violence problem. it's a culture problem, a poverty problem a history problem. the only person responsible for your safety is you. obama definitely can't be there. this isn't a black or white, democrat or republican issue. this is common sense. this is about preservation, about natural rights. >> goldie, what's your reaction to that because congressman charlie rangel calls it an insult to the intelligence of the american people. >> you have to fish where the fish are and that's why the nra is sponsoring a nascar race. but they have a problem with a racial divide. what do you have? you have an african-american spokesman who isn't saying anything new if you listen closely. he's simply repackaged and pushing out the same talking points we have heard from the nra. he happens to be more savvy.

he happens to have a compelling presentation and he happens to be a man of color which i don't know that it will attract any more african-americans to his cause but it will certainly help with independents who may be on the fence because they may feel maybe the right has some racial animus. >> thank you so much. next, a new epa chief for a second term agenda? but first, a banner day for wall street and seema mody has the cnbc market wrap. >> that's right. a historic day on wall street with the dow smashing 2007's record close. here is a look at how stocks stand going into tomorrow. the dow at 14,253, adding 125 points. the s&p 500 adding 14, and the tech-heavy nasdaq gaining 42 points trading at a 12-year high. that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. [ male announcer] surprise -- you're having triplets. [ babies crying ] surprise --

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the president may have delivered on his inaugural promise to devote his second term in part to climate change. his nominee to head the epa, gina mccarthy, has championed clean air initiatives. in fact, she worked for then massachusetts governor mitt romney back when he believed in climate change. of course, not everyone is a fan. republican senator jim inhofe of oklahoma says in a statement about her record, as head of the air office, mccarthy oversaw some of the epa's most costly and controversial rules. which is funny because this is how he described her during the 2009 confirmation to head the epa's clean air division. >> let me do this. i want to make sure that it's real clear because i hold you in a very high regard. i think we're very fortunate to have someone like you willing to take on a very difficult task. >> joining us now is bill nye, the science guy, and sabrina

schaefer, the executive director of the independent women's forum. welcome to both of you. bill, if i can start with you, from everything you've so far heard about gina mccarthy, does her record make you think that the president is, indeed, serious in his second term to focus on the issue of climate change? >> oh, yeah, absolutely. she was in charge of air and radiation. i remind everybody that no matter what your point of view, everybody on earth breathes the same atmosphere. so you can have a libertarian point of view or a modern conservative point of view, but you can't get around the idea that everybody breathes the same air, and so the question will be, there are regulations in place going back to 2007 about restricting the pollution and the particulates and also the carbon dioxide from coal-fired

power plants being built now. the question will be can miss mccarthy so even the old plants will be required to go by these modern rules and we'll see what happens. of course, as a progressive, as a guy who spent a lot of time studying the environment, i did a science education show -- >> as a scientist. >> yeah. climate change is very serious business, and the sooner we get started on it, the better. when you -- i was born here. i can't help but want the united states to be the world leader in this rather than not. >> absolutely. sabrina, your organization has spoken out against miss mccarthy, but isn't it the case that basically whoever is appointed will be carrying out the president's policies on this issue? >> and that's the bigger problem for us. look, i think that bill and i actually share some common ground, some common air. i'm the mom of three young children. i care about my environment, but i also care about the cost of milk. i care about our energy supply. i care about our economy and job production and i want to make sure that if we're tackling

climate change, which i think a lot of people think is a serious issue, although i think we may have some differences of opinion on that, if we're tackling it, that we do it properly through the legislative branch and not through the battles of the bureaucracy. that's what i'm concerned about. mccarthy has already earned the title obama's green quarterback, and it's for a reason. because he plans to use the epa and mccarthy as a way of affecting change rather than going through the proper congressional channels. >> bill, so there you have it. sabrina is concerned that this particular appointee and the president will issue changes that may undermine the economy and cost -- cause the price of her children's milk to go up. >> well, i have said this for many years. i just disagree with the idea that a clean environment leads to fewer jobs. i am never going to see eye to eye with that especially, if i may use the term the medium term. as soon as you start making farms harder to grow crops, then

you will have fewer livestock and you will end up with milk being more expensive. furthermore, just this morning or i guess maybe it was the interview yesterday, jeb bush referred to the problem that the other side or the conservatives have right now with their anti-science policies, and i submit that the legislators hire people like the environmental protection agency to provide the -- >> if i can interrupt for a second. i hope i'm not being lumped in with the anti-science. you're on with someone who is a deep believer in science and the skib tisk method and the use of experiments and randomization. i have studied science and the history of skuns. i don't want to be lumped in with those people. my concern is somebody like mccarthy has been working in conjunction with president obama to so-called bankrupt the coal industry. this makes up 42% of our energy spry -- >> sabrina, the sole -- >> getting cleaner and easier to use and better, and we have to be careful that we're not, you

know, throwing the baby out with the bath water here. we have to be practical in the kind of energy policies that we're putting out there. >> bill, your response to that? >> well, coal is not in anybody's long-term interest. this is not controversial. our problem, martin sa b, sabri our problem is there are no limits to fossil fuels. we will never run out of fossil fuels. the sooner we stop using them, the better the world will be. everybody kind of know this is but the sooner we get started the better. coal plants, especially the old ones, are just not -- they're not good for the air. they're not good for your children's future. >> well, one more concern that we have with mccarthy is it seems as though many of her reg layings have been based on faulty science and insufficient findings and small sample sizes and even the inspector general at the epa has called her out on this on numerous occasions. i am a believer in science but i

want to make sure it's good science and if we are going to be establishing thousands of regulations, and let's remember the regulatory agencies in 2011 issued over 3,800 regulations. this is not insignificant. we want to make sure it's being based on sound science. >> okay. >> let me ask this -- >> very quickly, bill. >> do you believe this climate change? do you believe coal plants are not a problem for the future of your children? those two questions. >> i believe that clay mat change is a new science we have a lot of research to still do and tackling it needs to be done correctly in a way that won't destroy our economy. >> thank you, sabrina. you didn't answer the question. bill nye the science guy and sabrina schaefer. thank you both. we'll be right back in a moment. [ male announcer ] let's say you pay your guy around 2% to manage your money.

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