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sfwlnchts the top of the show, asked you, why are you awake? producer john tower with the answers. >> nick in new hampshire writes, up snowblowing the driveway at 4:30 a.m. can you ask dylan when we're going to get our next snowstorm? i don't trust you. the house across the street is on fire. fire trucks everywhere. >> quick, go out the window, let me know if you see cory booker saving any dogs or cats because you never know. great show, everyone. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ i am the eye in the sky ♪ looking at you i want to thank rand paul for making this brave stance because it is good to know that they cannot kill us. and i am sure there is no classified second legal opinion overriding that one which we don't know about. it doesn't change my opinion. no matter what anybody says, i love drones. you hear that, drones?

stephen love you. >> good morning. that's a wintry mix if i've ever seen one here in new york city on this friday, march the 8th. with us on set, msnbc "time" magazine senior political analyst, mark halperin. national affairs editor for "new york" magazine and msnbc political analyst, john heilemann. "fortune's" assistant managing editor leigh gallagher, analyst and the former democratic congressman from tennessee, harold ford jr. and in washington, another msnbc political analyst, former chair of the rnc, mr. michael steele. good morning, everybody. >> good morning. >> good morning, sir. >> i like sitting next to you, mark halperin. >> you look good. >> the two of us. joe and mika have the day off. this is america's most beloved morning team for years now. halperin and geist. america's sweethearts. you're going to love it. did you see this photograph on the front page of "the new york times"? i think we have it full screen.

that is an awkward moment in the senate elevator between john mccain in the back there, rand paul in the foreground. if you go online of "the new york times," there's a forebox that shows the progression of how that run-in took place. why is that awkward? because senator rand paul's filibuster a couple nights ago may have done more to expose rifts. the kentucky republican's nearly 13-hour stand on the senate floor was praised in a wide range of political circles from peace activist to the tea party. but some fellow republicans including senator john mccain and lindsey graham are slamming his public protest. and members of their own party who joined him. >> the country needs more senators who care about liberty. but if mr. paul wants to be taken seriously, he needs to do more than pull political stunts that fire up impressionable libertarian kids in their college remember dos. dorms. he needs to know what he's

talking about. >> to my republican colleagues, i don't remember any of you coming down here suggesting that president bush was going to kill anybody with a drone. you know. i don't even remember the harshest critics of president bush on the democratic side. they had a drone program back then. so what is it, all of a sudden, that this drone program has gotten every republican so spun up? to my party, i'm a bit disappointed that you no longer apparently think we're at war. >> kids in their college dorms. in an interview, paul hit back at some of those republican critics. >> i think they're on the wrong side of history on this one. they are of the belief that the war is everywhere. so they kind of agree with some of the things the president's been saying, that there are no geographic limitations. they also, then, say that the laws of war apply. the laws of war basically mean that you don't get due process. and i can understand that in a

battlefield. i'm not for reading miranda rights to people that are shooting at us. if you're an opposing soldier, you shoot at me, we kill you. there is no miranda rights. nears no jury, no trials, no due process. but they say america is the battlefield. that's a huge mistake. and i think most americans would disagree with them if they knew the implications. >> john brennan whose nomination to lead the cia was temporarily blocked by rand's filibuster was confirmed yesterday by a senate vote of 63-34. in fact, both mccain and graham voted to support brennan with graham calling it, quote, a referendum on the drone program, adding that before the filibuster, he had planned on voting no. that infuriated supporters of rand paul who launched an online movement with the hash tag primarygraham. they hammered him for dining in a d.c. restaurant while at the same time paul was questioning the administration. that's why some believe that senator minority leader mitch mcconnell up for re-election

next year decided to publicly support paul's filibuster. and senator rubio who's faced criticism from some conservatives over his push for immigration reform was also a public backer of that filibuster. senator paul, meanwhile, is claiming victory after he received a letter from the administration stating that the president cannot order a deadly strike against an american on u.s. soil who is not engaged in combat. so now the freshman senator telling "politico" he is, quote, seriously considering running for president in 2016. okay. let's take a step back. let's start with you, michael steele. what did you see yesterday as you watched john mccain go after rand paul and then to hand it off to lindsey graham? what did it tell you about the republican party? >> well, it doesn't say much about the republican party as it did about the inability of some within the party to understand where this thing is going. i think rand paul made a very important stance yesterday. he got the administration to admit something that heretofore

refused to admit to, and i thought it was rather insulting, the way these gentlemen responded to this. look, i got the joke. you saw a lot of folks waiting all day long to see how these winds were going to blow. the finger in the air to see if this is going to take off. and then by 9:00 last night or the night before they were jumping on the bandwagon. but rand paul made a very principled argument before the nation that asked the very simple question. will this administration execute a policy that will kill a united states citizen on u.s. soil with a drone? break it down and give us an answer. so you know, this concept that, you know, the war is everywhere does not mean that the laws of war apply to everything. and i think that that was something that rand paul very, very aptly brought out. you know, so, you know, graham and mccain have a difference of opinion here. i thought the way they aired that difference of opinion was insulting. >> mark, you almost had to stop

and process what you were seeing yesterday for a minute. here were senator john mccain and senator lindsey graham fighting vehemently to defend president obama's policy. it was a little disorienting. >> well, they've been very hawkish, and they have pressured not just this president but the previous one to some extent. you know, rand paul, like his father, scrambles republican politics. at least foreign policy questions from the libertarian side, it scrambles everything. and you've also got, i think, a larger issue in the senate. you have younger republican senators who are not afraid to go after the establishment, the old bulls. there's pictures in "the new york times" you pointed out on the elevator, those elevators are pretty big. in this case, i don't think it was quite big enough because senator mccain, when he's angry, and i think it's fair to say he was angry yesterday, he doesn't hide it very well. and rand paul is fearless. like mike lee of utah, like some of these other younger republican senators, ted cruz now, they're not afraid of older

senators. they're willing to kind of break some china and mccain and lindsey graham are coming right back at them. as you said, in support of a democratic president. >> john, what did you see yesterday? >> well, i think it's interesting. "time" says in its headline, the drone debate scrambles both left and right. there are a set of issues, and particularly issues that resolve around civil iberties that standard partisan categories don't work very well. it's not only that there's fractures, fissures, you have pat leahy, totally respectable democratic senator who voted no on the brennan confirmation. you have ron wyden, the senator from oregon, who's very much on rand paul's side on this issue of drones. so you have these civil libertarian questions. you have the libertarian impulse that lives on the left and the right. you see suddenly the even weirder bedfellows and the

notion that ron wyden, far to the left of rand paul on almost everything ends up being an alley ally. they go to core issues around due process, around interpretation of the constitution, around war powers. that kind of stuff sometimes, when it gets introduced in these debates, is not a democrat/republican thing. it's places where different weird coalitions get exposed and get built. and i think, you know, it's not that surprising that this is happening because this is one of these issues that really is -- it cuts to something very deep and core. and we're seeing like really the first stages of a debate that's going to go on for the next 20 to 30 years. it redraws the battle lines in interesting ways. >> it does seem it raised his profile. everyone was talking about him for 13 straight hours and again today. also, he managed to form, as john said, this strange coalition. had he progressives coming up with him, his republican colleagues, and a group of civil libertarians for whom this has been a huge issue for a long

time, the drone program. >> yeah, i think that's more interesting than the rift it exposed in the republican party which is divided in many ways right now. so i think that's really interesting. and it is a debate that's going to be with us for a while. you know, we've talked about this. there are serious questions here. what are the standards? you know, there's 50 countries that either have or developing drones. we set the standard. we are the -- people are looking to us, you know, how to handle this. this is a very big, important conversation. and it did, as michael steele said, put it in the light yesterday. >> harold, what do you make of this back-and-forth -- not only that, but also the policy, the drone policy? >> i'm not as bothered by the policy as rand paul or even my dear friend ron wyden is. i think that the president clarified the remarks by his white house spokesman, jay carney, as well as by eric holder, making clear that extraordinary circumstances is all that would cause the president to make a decision about whether to use lethal force against someone on american soil, albeit an

american. the president swore to uphold the constitution. and i believe that he will. this president, i believe presidents going forward, if not, the senate has an obligation and a responsibility to act. this program has worked and worked successfully. it has kept american soldiers out of harm's way around the globe. i understand the focus of yesterday's conversation and debate over the last 36 hours is whether or not forced this kind of method could be used on an american on american soil. but i think it's been clarified by the administration. i think it was appropriate for rand paul to raise these questions. i have no issue with him filibustering as he did. the dispute between he and lindsey graham and john mccain is something they need to litigate and work out themselves. but the fact that he raised these issues, i think to john's point and to leigh's point, it demonstrates how issues of war thankfully don't invite and inspire the kind of partisan rancor that we generally see around everything from taxes to entitlement policies. so in a lot of ways it was refreshing to see the senate have this big discussion.

but i think the president and the justice department, in particular, were challenged on this. they laid out the facts clearly. i thought the person that was most out of line in all of this was probably ted cruz, but that's another conversation. i thought general holder did a phenomenal job in answering the questions. he probably could have answered a little more succinctly, but i think his justice department responded quickly and frankly sufficiently. >> do you have any questions -- forget on u.s. soil -- questions about targeting u.s. citizen as broad, though? >> as i've said on this show many times before, and joe and i have disagreed, i think if you socialize, dine with, spend time with known terrorists who are on a list of those who want to do harm to america, you put yourself at peril. i don't dine, socialize or spend time with people who are on a terrorist list around the globe. so i think -- don't get me wrong, these are messy and complicated issues. but i happen to have some level of trust and confidence in our military personnel and intelligence personnel to make

these kinds of decisions. now, what i do think has to happen for the administration is they've got to lay out this criteria, these rules, these guidelines in a clear and more transparent way. that's what i hope will come out of this discussion in the back-and-forth between -- or among paul and senator graham and senator mccain. >> well, speaking of dining with the enemy, let's talk about the meals that have been taking place over the last couple of days. after ongoing criticism for failing to reach out across the aisle, president obama had his second date in two days with top republicans. the president in lunch yesterday with paul ryan. that was at the white house. also there, ranking democrat chris van hollen. according to both camps, they discussed issues from addressing the deficit to replacing the sequester cuts. just the night before the president dined with 12 top republican senate members while nearly all of those senators described the talks as productive and optimistic. speaker john boehner added an "if" to the dialogue. >> i did have a conversation

with the president about last friday. and it was really kind of interesting that this week we've gone 180. now he's going to, after being in office now for your others, he's actually going to sit down and talk to members. i think it's a sign -- a hopeful sign -- and i'm hopeful that something will come out of it. but if the president continues to insist on tax hikes, i don't think we're going to get very far. >> mark halperin, is this a meaningful change in strategy or a cosmetic thing for the president to serve, inoculate himself against the criticism the fact that he hasn't sat down face to face with republicans? >> as was said on this program, accept the fact the president's going to do things like this. i'm hopeful you didn't go back to the archives. the white house has been smart. they've chosen people like paul ryan, the president reached out in dinner and phone calls to people like rob portman to people totally willing to work with the president, totally

willing to find common ground. and i think if they keep it up, it's the right thing to do. i think he's got to do it because he needs to change the dynamic. michael steele, do you think republicans like a paul ryan, like rob portman and others at the dinner, senator mccain, are going to be -- feel free to try to build coalitions with the president or from either the grass roots or the republican leadership do you think they'll be yanked back? >> i think they will do both, actually. i think it's very smart, the president's selection of individuals to help him in this regard. he's got a team of folks at the table he can begin to rework the grand bargain which is now back in play. and on the table for consideration. at the same time, those individuals who were at that dinner can network within the caucus itself, understand and appreciate where those who will not budge at all are and isolate them and begin to pull to that table those who are going to be willing to work with them to get something done. this all, i think, is going to

be a play, this round at least, out of the senate. the house is going to be sort of a secondary player to a certain degree. yes, paul ryan is at the table now to an extent. but i really think the president and the white house are going to look to those 12 senators who were at that dinner to really help fashion the next round of the grand bargain. >> john, michael says the grand bargain is back in play. "politico" has a piece this morning sayi in ing the same th. you listen to boehner talk about revenues and taxes, it's hard to imagine where he moves on that. where is the middle ground on the grand bargain if there is one? >> i don't know where it is. i'll say that i don't think the white house is operating in bad faith in doing any of this. i don't think they're doing it just to provide an excuse for -- in response to their critics. i think they're genuinely trying to find a way to a deal. an ancillary benefit is to smoke out what the real differences are. when you see mccain react like

that, it was almost a mocking tone in a way that he said i'm glad to see the president doing this after four years. then he comes back to the substance. most of them won't accept new revenue. until someone gives on that question, there's not going to be a grand bargain. that's the nature of it. i think the white house can do a grand bargain with the senate. the biggest problem, as it has been for the last two years, has been the vast majority of the house republican caucus will not accept new revenue in this deal. and until that changes, that's -- there's no grand bargain. and i don't know that these dinners or lunches or any of the other socializing is going to change that basic fact in john boehner's caucus. >> if you give them tax reform, lowered rates and entitlement reform, you can get new revenue out of the house. i don't think there's any doubt. it's a question of the sequencing. the sequencing in so-called regular order. which is the path they were on until three days ago. you could never get the timing to work out.

how do you sync up major tax reform with major entitlement reform. a grand bargain means -- particularly if john boehner was -- he's been turning the floor over to the democrats, you can get new revenue as long as you lower rates, get rid of corporate loopholes, bring in new revenue and entitlement reform. and the president at the darin talked openly about both social security and medicare. that is plenty to bring to the table on that side to get new revenue. >> the fact that we're using the words grand bargain all week is significant, given where we were a couple weeks ago in december, january. so you know, the president is trying. you know, was it lindsey graham who said yesterday, anybody who doesn't say yes to this offer, it's your job. it's your job to do this. you know, all you had to do was ask. is there kumbaya? has peace broken out? there's very good issues you guys bring up. >> they all have agreed to step out together. i think mark's point is most salient because after this dinner, what happened, lindsey

graham was attacked by those who may run against him, some group that may run against him in his primary. so it will take a courage from both sides to get this done. they're going to have to do it -- the sequence will have to be done together when they step out and hopefully they'll be able to bring enough of their colleagues on. i was a little concerned by boehner's tone. i think up to this point, i think he's been a courageous figure. it sounds like there was a lot of frustration yesterday. hopefully that will abate if some sort of grand bargain is made. >> how about feeling left out? >> he's got to save face a little bit after the fiscal cliff. >> a lot more to talk about. we're talking about the bank stress tests. we've got a jobs number coming up. incredible week on the stark market, what that whole stew means. >> you look good this morning. the "today" show has come to "morning joe." i love it. >> more of harold's series, dining with enemy combatants later. still ahead on "morning joe," david gregory. also steve schmidt, stephanie cutter, eugene robinson.

later, a special guest joining us live from florida where he is at spring training. that's coming up in this hour. but first, bill karins with a look at the forecast. hey, bill. >> willie, as advertised, a difficult travel morning for everyone in new england. i'm sure a lot of schools are canceled and a lot of parents are scrambling to figure out what they're going to do. we are watching that heavy snow continuing at this hour, especially boston, massachusetts, all the way out on the pike in southern portions of new england. this is that same ocean storm that hit virginia and moved all the way across the country including dumping that snow in chicago. it will finally leave us during the day today. so here's a look at the radar. the white shows you the snow. the blue is the heavier snow inside. we have snow all the way from philadelphia to south jersey. not expecting a lot of accumulations there. but the travel trouble's really outside the big cities especially outside of new york city. once you get up to hartford and providence, there's a lot of snow out there. the treated roads are doing okay. especially secondary roads and bridges are troublesome. we've heard as much as a foot of snow in the higher terrain of connecticut and in massachusetts. so the snowstorm continues in

new england. the roads will dramatically improve for your way home from work. as we look to the southeast, a beautiful day today. there's a new storm that's going to move across the country this weekend. that today is going to bring thunderstorms and heavy rain to l.a. and phoenix. that will move into texas on saturday. a classic spring storm with snow in the mountains of the rockies including denver. and thunderstorms heading into the central plains. and then by the time we get to sunday, you will notice at least the northeast begins to warm up. we should have a nice weekend after the snowstorm. it's the middle of the country's turn to have to deal with some nasty weather. we're looking at new york city. no accumulations whatsoever there on the pavement. but the grassy surfaces probably in central park, maybe a slushy inch. careful driving into work today anywhere in new england. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ female announcer ] when a woman wears a pad

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welcome back to "morning joe." let's take a look at the "morning papers." in our parade of papers, "the l.a. times." 17 of 18 u.s. banks have passed the latest round of stress tests by the federal reserve. the tests gauge how well a bank would survive another economic downturn. just one of the banks, allied financial in detroit, which happens to be the only bank still majority owned by the government, failed the test. let's pause there for one second, leigh. good news on its face. some people say it's not really reflective of what would happen if there were an economic crisis. what do you say? >> it's not. and it's funny. you don't really hear stress test phrase. it sounds almost an achronistic. they've been expanded. many people say they haven't been expanded enough and bad banks are still taking a lot of risks, as they are. we saw a couple high-profile examples of that last year. overall the financial system is a lot more sound. but these banks are still mega

institutions that if one of them got into trouble, you know, they would still be too big to fail. >> let's not get too optimistic? >> it's good thing that 17 out of 18 passed. overall things look good. i think everyone's a little more wary. >> i'm pleased to report that harold ford passed his stress test. his capital supplies are well in excess of requirements. >> i'm not dining with any -- >> willie, how are your capital levels right now? >> not good. >> are you wilting under the stress test? >> i collapsed almost instantly. >> don't forget, a lot of the rules in dodd/frank have yet to be implemented. >> right. >> this is all very much still a work in progress. if anything, it's been, you know, put aside as we're dealing with everything in washington. >> and we'll get a jobs number in about two hours. >> we will. >> it's supposed to be so-so. >> yeah, it's supposed to be unchanged as last month, 7.9%, about 160,000 jobs. >> you think the market will respond positively to that number?

>> the market is, you know, going bananas about anything right now, on some very good indicators. but i think so. and there's been other really strong news about the jobs -- the labor market this week. if you look at weekly jobless claims, the average has hit a five-year low. adp report was great. small business hiring is up. the fundamentals are looking really good. so we might be in for a surprise today. >> should we be a little worried, harold, when we see the dow go as high as it's gone, given what happened last time it set a record five years ago? >> it depends on whom you listen to. i mean, naturally everyone wants these asset classes to continue to rise. it says good things about the confidence that corporate america, at all levels, has about where the economy is headed. but there are those who worry that what's driving us are not fundamentals. what's driving this is the actions of the fed. when the fed has to dial back, how does that impact the average consumer? how does that impact large corporate balance sheets? we'll have to wait and see. but at the moment, i think there's a lot of excitement around what's happening, and

certainly those in the brokerage business around the country and for that matter the world, but those investors in the u.s. are excited about what's happening. >> check out that jobs number, 8:30 eastern time. what other papers, mark? >> another great american newspaper, "the omaha world herald," an anti-gun trafficking bill that would make it a federal crime to buy a gun for someone who cannot pass a background check on their own. it made it out of committee by 11-7. there was one republican joining the panel. 10 democrats. the first firearms measure to make it to the senate floor since the mass shooting in newtown, connecticut. "new york times," a team of scientists have reported global temperatures at their highest point in at least 4,000 years. the findings support the belief that global warming is a result of human activity. the data also suggests the planet will continue to get warmer for the foreseeable future, passing levels not seen since before the last ice age. >> be careful to criticize al gore. he was more right than wrong. >> and there's worcester, mass. >> no one would dare criticize al gore.

venezuela's acting head of sta state's hugo chavez will be embalmed in a glass tomb joining those resting in permanent display. >> creepy. >> a state funeral is planned for chavez. more than 30 heads of government are expected to attend including raul castro and mahmoud ahmadinejad. >> who was that? >> ahmadinejad. no one from the u.s. going, i suppose. >> you're not a real dictator until you've been embalmed in glass. >> and displayed permanently. >> with some wax flowers. "the seattle times," eating too much processed meat could be detrimental to your health. according to a new study-- >> news flash. >> overindulging in bacon, sausage and other meats could lead to cardiovascular disease. >> let me write this down. >> harold, you getting this? researchers found the link leads to about 3% of all premature deaths each year. are those corn dogs? you can't take away my corn dogs. out of my cold, dead hand you're

getting a corn dog. >> look at that lumber. >> shocking. truly shocking. >> what else, mark? "usa today," the slumber bummer. early this sunday morning we'll be springing ahead for daylight savings time. 40% of americans say it takes them at least one week to return to a normal schedule. that is ridiculous. while a study of sleepies has found nearly 70% would favor moving the shift to saturday. >> stop it. what are we doing? >> what is this discussion? >> i don't understand. >> a week to recover? >> it's one hour. since no one on this set has slept since, like, 1979. this is not very relevant. >> now we're whining about the one hour of sleep. joining us now, "politico's" patrick gavin has a look at the "playbook." good morning. >> good morning, everybody. >> you're in your library, not at headquarters. >> you like the home books? >> you're in the home library.

you guys at "politico" are writing a new book out about hillary clinton. she followed clinton for the miles clinton traveled during her four years. what do we learn about her and particularly as a candidate? >> unfortunately you don't get frequent flyer miles when you travel as secretary of state. pity her. this is sort of the first big book since secretary clinton has left foggy bottom. it's not technically about her 2016 ambitions, but clinton knows she's going to get this question everywhere she goes. we sat down and asked her about it. obviously, there's the standard talking points we talk about. but what she said to really look for is the one sort of overlooked element of a potential 2016 run based on her experience with hillary clinton being a very thoughtful and sort of considerate person on factoring in these things is hillary clinton really realizes

that were she to enter the white house, this would be the third democratic presidential term in a row. and she knows that that's not necessarily a guaranteed thing for the american public. and what she needs to figure out is where is she going to separate herself from the president? the reality is that she's been a loyal soldier to president obama. that has paid off very well for her. she sort of restored her reputation and even bolstered it. she knows she's got to find a couple things to separate herself from the president as a new face, not a sort of barack obama 2.0. >> as secretary clinton rests now, she's not thinking about 2016, ostensibly. what would deter her or prevent her from running? >> i really think the only thing would be if she didn't feel like doing it. if she decided she wasn't interested. not so much in the run, although that's a little bit daunting, but i think governing. you know, if she runs, she's got to think about maybe eight years of doing it, ten years total. and she may not want to spend

the next ten years of her life engaged in this enterprise. i think that's really the only thing. the fundamentals are so strong for her, both within the party and more towards the center of the electorate that the normal calculations of getting it done, i think, don't really apply to her. >> i sort of can't imagine what she's going through right now. because she's not been not running or not engaged in an intense enterprise for so long that what is now happening to her is such a radical change of environment and circumstance and pace that, you know, she could just look up one day and say, you know, i'm done. i'm finished. >> you know what's funny, john, the phrase amongst team obama according to kim is that for the next two years, all they want her to focus on is, quote, beaches and speeches. that is pretty much their phrase for what they want clinton. >> kim reveals as you do in the piece that the secret for secretary clinton's stamina, hot chili peppers. >> who would have thought? apparently helps you sweat and flush out your toxins. apparently that's one of her

recipes for success for having logged 1 million miles during her time at the state department. >> who knew? kim will be our guest next week. patrick gavin with a look at the "playbook." coming up next, a mystery guest joins us from fort myers, florida, with a live report on the grapefruit league. >> david ortiz? >> we're not going to tell you who it is. >> big papi's on the show? >> we're not going to reveal who it is. >> or big grampy. >> you'd be incredibly disappointed and change the channel if we told you. more "morning joe" when we come back. [ male announcer ] when it comes to the financial obstacles military families face, we understand. our financial advice is geared specifically to current and former military members and their families. life brings obstacles. usaa brings retirement advice.

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♪ i love that dirty water welcome back to "morning joe." that's a live picture at laguardia airport in new york city. man, it is ugly. you'd almost rather have a big snowstorm. it's just cold, wet rain, kind of half snow. but about a million miles away from all that, one man is sitting down in the florida sun, basking, taking in spring training. we still don't know who he is. this is a huge mystery. >> he's got a mai tai in one hand and a box score in the other. >> he couldn't be bothered to go to our affiliate studio. sir pr sir, please reveal yourself. >> reporter: good morning, ladies and gentlemen, this is mike barnicle reporting from florida, the only state where

63% of the population is up walking in shopping malls. >> it's like getting mayor kimby on the phone. >> that includes you, mike barnicle. >> reporter: get away. that's my scooter. >> so you're down in fort myers checking out the red sox. mike, how do they look? >> reporter: well, the red sox look like an 84 or 87-win team, a lot better than the yankees, obviously, willie, who i'm told, and i'm breaking news here on "morning joe," they are going to sign, later today, to replace alex rodriguez at third base and the offense they lost with mark teixeira being out for ten weeks, they're going to sign at noon today, mike schmitt in order to lower the demographic age of the team. mike schmitt is a retired 53-year-old hall of fame third baseman. >> well take him at this point, mike. jeter said in an interview yesterday, you know you have problems when your gm goes on the disabled list, fracturing his ankle while sky-diving. >> reporter: broke his ankle, a

noble cause, jumping for the wounded warrior program earlier this week in florida. >> he did. mike, talk about the tradition you have with your family and your boys going down every year to watch a little grapefruit league baseball. >> reporter: yeah, well, thanks for bringing that up, willie, because it really is something. this is 21 straight years that our two oldest boys and now our youngest boy, timmy, who's 20, nick is 28. collin is 27. 21 straight years that we've come to florida for spring training. it's just great. it's great for everyone. it gives you exposure to baseball, obviously. but more importantly, it gives you a chance to spend some time with your kids that you ordinarily don't get to spend this kind of time with them. 21 straight years. of course, we have our big fantasy baseball league draft here on saturday. i'm in a fantasy league along with my boys and several other people. and i intend to win it all this year. >> hey, mike, i'm curious, you were talking about your sons. i'm familiar with them. they're a bunch of cry babies.

i'm thinking about another -- >> reporter: john, excuse me for interrupting you. this barnicle referenced you last night when he said finally he found somebody who talked more than heilmann watching rand paul's filibuster. >> that's pretty funny. tell him i'll discuss that with him at length when he gets back to new york city. i'm thinking of another kroy baby. what's the story on this carl crawford deal? bashing the team, bashing all things boston. what do you think about that? >> reporter: well, carl had a difficult time in his less than two full years with the red sox. you have to have a certain personality to play in new york or philly or boston, i would submit, and you have to have really thick skin. he's a young guy. he came from a very small market in tampa where maybe there were two reporters covering the team on a busy weekend. and you come into the intensity of the market in boston, and

he's not all wrong in the sense that the sense of vulnerability, it's not just boston, it's the other big markets that i referenced. and you have to really be able to not pay attention to the sports talk radio, not read all the stuff that's written about you. and he was really, in a sense, brutalized for not playing because he's a very expensive player. so he's not -- you know, 80% wrong but not entirely wrong. >> hey, mike, harold ford. real quick, how are they taking to the new manager down there, and how do you like him? >> reporter: the new manager is like night and day compared to last year. i don't want to knock bobby valentine because you can't blame the entire episode, tragic episode, of last year that was 2012 on one guy, bobby valentine, the manager. but the new manager, john farrell, he has a past here. he was pitching coach for the red sox for three or four years. so most of the players know him. he's got a much different disposition than bobby did.

so they're taking to him very, very well. >> mike, we know you've got a busy day ahead of you shopping for corrective footwear. we're going to let you go. >> reporter: oh, willie, i went to an outlet store yesterday and got myself a pair of comfortable shoes. i'm all set. i'm on my third lap at the mall here in fort myers. morning, gladys. >> say hi to the boys and ann. see you when you get back. >> reporter: thanks. coming up next, nbc foreign correspondent ayman mohyeldin joins us on the situation in syria. he's here in new york with us. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. the american dream is of a better future,

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news foreign correspondent, ayman mohyeldin. we're used to having you on remotely in cairo. it's good to have you. i know you cover a lot of these. we'll rapid fire at you. one we haven't gotten to this morning, osama bin laden's son-in-law captured and brought sometime last week, although just revealed yesterday here to new york city to stand trial. this has been controversial. some republican senators and congressmen say we weren't alerted ahead of time. we didn't know this was happening. we ought to have known, and he shouldn't have been here in the first place said people like lindsey graham. can you walk us through it? >> the domestic one, this terrorist is not going to be tried here on u.s. soil for the first time. i think a lot of people will be watching that to see the kind of precedent it's going to set. there have been other terrorists that have been tried in new york. this one is of significance because he was a senior member of al qaeda. there's' growing concern that by bringing him here to the u.s.

and trying him in no, that's going to put a lot of pressure on new york. it may make it more of a target. a high-profile trial would make it much more cumbersome for residents of new york city. there is that concern. others will say this is an important milestone for the u.s. justice system, that they can by high-profile people and start to shift away from guantanamo which has been such a sour point for the international community when it comes to u.s. relations. when you look at guantanamo and they say this has been a stain on the united states, you've got to shift away from guantanamo. >> we had this discussion and debate with khalid shaikh mohammed and it ended differently. it was interesting to see peter king, senator chuck schumer, democrat of new york, both saying we're okay this time having bin laden's son-in-law tried in a courtroom. why is this different? >> because of the individual. and this particular individual is not believed to have any operational significance within al qaeda. he's been in iran according to all the reports that he was arrested on his way, you know, from turkey into jordan. he had lived the last ten years in iran. he didn't have a lot of

operational significance with al qaeda. he had been detained and in jail in iran. i think somebody like khalid shaikh mohamed is somebody that a lot of al qaeda followers and sympathizers would be galvanized and rally behind him and maybe be fueled by that and see him on display in whatever process that may lead. they may feel he's being humiliated and try and do something about it. i think he's far removed from the scene. he may not be as galvanizing a figure. and i think that's why they feel a little more comfortable having him here. >> he could still deliver potentially -- this isn't a name that most people know, but he was seen as a concigliory of sorts. >> he was like the chief pr propagandist. i think it's going to be very interesting to watch what he says, what kind of message he delivers. i think the fact that they have

him is a blow to al qaeda's ideology. i think the ideology has permeated so much across the world that it's not one individual whose job it is to get him. his sermons and speeches are all online. you can still watch his statements. i think it's going to be interesting to watch this trial unfold and see what kind of freedom he has to speak publicly. >> what do we know about the nature of the charges against him? >> i think right now because he doesn't have any operational significance, so the charges will be more about what he knew. his close affiliation with al qaeda. on september 11th, he came out and praised the attacks. he had a close working relationship with osama bin laden and other senior leaders including ayman al zawahiri. i think that, you know, the specific charges, because it was sealed, we still don't know much about it, but i think we'll learn more when he appears in court later today. >> michael steele is in washington with us. and he's got a question for you, ayman. >> ayman, good to see you again. >> how are you, buddy? >> good. i want to shift a little back to the rand paul discussion on drones and get your take on how this plays out in the middle east, in particular, given our

extensive use in the region. we were talking earlier about some 50 nations or countries have or are developing their own drone program. how do you see or read the reaction to the debate that we saw played out on the floor of the senate with what's really going on on the ground and the concern that, you know, americans have about this happening to us here. and yet we're doing it to other nations and how those nations look at that program in total. >> well, i think the critics, those that have been speaking out against the drone policy, will say, you know, the united states is now waking up to the problems of the drone policy. there are so many ethical and moral and legal questions about it being used on u.s. soil against american citizens. critics say why didn't you have this debate over the past ten years when you were carrying out drone stliks against suspects

and the toll that took. that debate that is now beginning to happen here in the u.s. on the floor in the media, in public forums, i think, you know, the critics will say this is too late. you should have had this discussion. there are a lot of legal implications. and a lot of people in the international community, as you mentioned, michael, a lot of countries getting more and more drone capabilities. i think it's going to pose a lot of serious problems for countries when countries have odds with one another, will they be allowed to carry out drones? the united states has set a precedence for this type of behavior. and in the eyes of many critics in that part of the world, other countries now feel, you know, if the u.s. did it without any legal responsibility, without any impunity, we could possibly do it as well. >> a story you've been covering very closely is syria, of course. there's been a lot of discussion over the last months and year about how much the united states ought to be involved. what kind of aid they ought to have been providing to the rebels there. russia just out overnight reiterating that it will not seek to force al assad from power. where does this stand right now from where you sit? >> syria is -- it is a mess.

in every sense of the word. i think it's proved the impotence of the international community to agree on something even when it is as black and white of the killing of so many people. it's kind of portrayed as a domestic story -- rather i should say a local story is misleading. it has become an international story. you have weapons coming from iran, support from hezbollah, arming the rebels, and the united states and russia at odds about what to do in the international arena. it has become an international story. it's a major problem for key u.s. allies, israel, jordan, turkey. there has to be a breakthrough. and that breakthrough has to happen from the international community because on the ground, the two sides are unable to reach a tipping point to end it any time soon. and i fear that it's just going to get work. >> ayman mohyeldin, we love having you here. you can pick an international story and throw it at him. boom. >> except the weather. know nothing about that one. >> thanks for being here. still ahead on "morning

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it's beautiful. >> it can't be today. >> just after 7:00 in washington, up in new york city. welcome back to "morning joe." a little bit different picture here. and that doesn't even stick. you can't enjoy it. you can't go make a snowman. it's just miserable. mark halperin, john heilemann still with us here no new york along with michael steele in washington. joining us now on set, former mccain senior campaign strategist and msnbc political analyst, steve schmidt and stephanie cutter. >> good morning. >> it would be interesting to get your takes on the front page of "the new york times." senator mccain with a chance encounter with senator rand paul in the senate elevator yesterday. after senator mccain had, well, accused rand paul of appealing to kids in their dorm rooms with his filibuster. thought bubble, steve? what do you got there? >> i said it doesn't look like his happy face to me. >> you've seen that face before, haven't you? >> i have. >> what do you think senator mccain thinks of a younger senator like rand paul coming in

and doing that on national security? is this famed indignation, or is he seriously indignant? >> mccain profoundly disagrees with paul's views on this. you have this divide in the republican party that you will see widen, deepen, and become more pronounced and more vocal arguments taking place around it as we get ready for the 2016 campaign. and john mccain represents one viewpoint. it's been a dominant viewpoint. but this other viewpoint, one that rand paul represents in some of these other younger senators represent is beginning to express itself. we're going to have a big debate in the party. >> should we take him seriously as a presidential candidate? >> absolutely rand paul should be taken seriously as a presidential candidate. you saw him, i think, have the requisite qualities of intelligence, oratory, showmanship. and he's a conviction politician. he's not one of these candidates where you're sitting around having eight-hour-long meetings talking about what should the vision of the campaign be? he has a vision. and his libertarianism has been

a dormant part of the republican pear for a long time. but that's a potent strain of the republican party. and he's someone who can give it expression. he's able to take his father's act, bring it mainstream. i think he'll absolutely be one of the real formidable candidates. if you look right now, i think it's chris chrischristie, marco rubio, jeb bush and rand paul, of course. >> just to stay with that question, one of the things we all covered when we covered the 2008 race and then the 2012 race, ron paul always having a very stable 8, 10, 12% depending where you are. they were diehard devoted to him. but he was kind of a nut on certain things. not just an isolationist. he believed in kind of conspiracy theories. you talk about mainstreaming. if you mainstream that view, if you take away the kookiness of it, if you just focus on the stuff that's appealing?

>> i think it's untested. i don't think we know because it hasn't had expression for quite a long time. we haven't seen somebody be able to get up on a stage and articulate a viewpoint aimed at the mainstream of the republican party. for example, on afghanistan, that's able to express some of the circumspection, a reverting back to the traditional viewpoint of american foreign policy which is a great reluctance to use force, great reluctance to become engaged in foreign entanglements all across the world. so he's going to, i think, on issue after issue express a viewpoint that just hasn't had a voice in the republican party for a really long time that i think a lot of grass-roots republicans are very sympathetic with out across the country. >> let's hear what we're talking about exactly here. this is senator john mccain, also lindsey graham yesterday responding to the filibuster two nights ago from rand paul. >> the country needs more senators who care about liberty.

but if mr. paul wants to be taken seriously, he needs to do more than pull political stunts that fire up impressionable libertarian kids in their college dorms. he needs to know what he's talking about. >> to my republican colleagues, i don't remember any of you coming down here suggesting that president bush was going to kill anybody with a drone. you know. i don't even remember the harshest critics of president bush on the democratic side. they had a drone program back then. so what is it all of a sudden that this drone program has gotten every republican so spun up? to my party, i'm a bit disappointed that you no longer apparently think we're at war. >> i think they're on the wrong side of history on this one. they are of the belief that the war is everywhere. so they kind of agree with some of the things the president's been saying, that there are no

geographic limitlimitations. they also say the laws of war don't apply. the laws of war basically mean that you don't get due process. and i can understand that on a battlefield. i'm not for reading miranda rights to people that are shooting at us. if you're an opposing soldier and you shoot at me, we kill you. there is no miranda rights, no jury, no trials, there's no due process. but they say america is a battlefield. that's a huge mistake, and i think most americans would disagree with him if they knew the implications. >> stephanie, that was quite a scene yesterday on the floor of the senate. you had senators john mccain and lindsey graham defending president obama against fellow republicans. >> that was quite a scene. and that elevator picture is quite a scene, too. usually that look is reserved for some democrat who happens to stumble on the same elevator as john mccain. i think it's interesting when senator mccain, who i have a lot of respect for, says that members of his own party shouldn't be firing up, you know, kids sitting in college dormitories.

but he had no problem firing people up over benghazi, over what happened in libya. you know, that fired up people, too. and much of it wasn't based on fact. so there's a little bit of a double standard here. obviously, he's trying to quell any potential division in his own party. you know, what steve talked about earlier in terms of a piece of the republican base, this has been brewing for a long time. and you can see some similarities between certain parts of the republican base and certain parts of the democratic base in terms of how they feel about war. how they felt early about the afghanistan war, about the iraq war. how they feel about some of the civil liberties involved with potential drone strikes or the debate around it. so i think that senator mccain and lindsey graham see a potential big division going into 2014, 2016 that they're trying to take care of now. >> but on the policy of it, though, stephanie, senator mccain said yesterday that rand paul's argument was an insult to our intelligence. the idea that the president of

the united states would authorize a u.s. citizen to be killed on u.s. soil. shouldn't americans be concerned a little bit about that? or do you share john mccain's view? >> well, i share john mccain's view that it's not possible. the debate we're having is about the technology, the drone technology. but the laws and the constitution that the president has to abide by haven't changed. so whether it's a drone or a machine gun, it's the same laws that apply. the president can't use lethal force against an american citizen. you know, unless that citizen is an enemy combatant or engaged in terrorism. so nothing has changed here except for the use of technology. >> but let's be clear. one of the reasons that rand paul did this was the fact that that question was put to the administration repeatedly, and it did not answer it. and there was a reason for him to ask, to press this point. it had been raised in brennan's confirmation hearings. and no one would answer that question as forthrightly as stephanie just did. that was the principle he was upholding there.

michael steele, in the end, we've talked about ways in which there are fissures being exposed on the republican side. stephanie pointed out there's also fissures on the democratic side. as we proceed to warfare and issues about national security come up, is this more destabilizing for your party, or is this potentially equally destabilizing for the democratic coal incision >> i think it's equally destabilizing, but i think paul is going to be more proven right than wrong on this issue which is the central focus. i think steve hit it exactly on point. you've got this original strain, the traditional view on warfare and national security within the gop that has been largely dormant since the neocons have grabbed ahold of the party and sort of ratcheted us into this, you know, this sort of warfare mindset. that's now beginning to reemerge. you know, i take issue with senator mccain's response. you know, libertarian kids in

their college dorms is who rand paul is talking to. guess what, senator? those kids vote. and they pay a lot of attention to these matters. you know, they're sitting in their college dorms watching the world unfold around them. and at some point you're going to come back and say, we need you to go fight a war. and so there's a connection here that rand paul has made that is legitimate. his father made it. and the way the party has treated this wing, if you will, of libertarianism, which is the traditional part of the gop, as we saw unfold in the last election cycle, particularly at the national convention, that was insulting to a lot of those folks who now are finding their voice and are reemerging. the democrats also recognize this, which is why the president felt a little bit pricked on this issue on the drones because it did cross over. it appealed to code pink as much as it appealed to libertarians and tea partiers. so i think rand paul is finding

sort of a wedge here. what he does with it will be interesting going forward. >> steve, since the kids are in charge today, we're making the show all about social media, facebook, twitter. i want to read you a tweet. rick wilson, republican strategi strategist, i finally just saw the mccain and graham clips. just wow. twilight of the old order much? so obviously there's a lot going on here in terms of policy. but in terms of senator mccain and senator graham, do you think they are clinging to some old conception of politics in terms of denouncing young people and their support, or are we not in a transitionary period? >> and by the way, the viewpoint that senators mccain and graham are expressing is not a minority viewpoint in the republican party. there's a lot of people who would agree completely with the point that they made. but there's going to be a big, robust debate that plays out now over the next couple of years. and what has been a strain of libertarianism in the republican party that's had no expression

for a long time is going to begin to express itself. and i think it's going to find itself to be popular with a lot of people in the country because in the republican party, the knee-jerk interventionism in places ranging from libya to syria, that wherever there is a crisis in the world that there is, we must intervene there. we need to put an air cap over the airspace. we need to arm the rebels. i think there's a lot of circumspection about how the united states should carry itself forward in the post-iraq, post-afghanistan world, and we're going to have a big foreign policy debate in the republican party headed into 2016. and the other thing that rand paul talked about, we've had this debate in this country for our entire existence, the balance of power between the executive and legislative branches. the balance of power has moved decidedly towards the executive, uninterrupted over the last

couple of decades. and he's saying, wait a second. congress ought to begin to assert some of its traditional prerogatives back in. it's a sophisticated argument. it's a deep argument. it's an important argument. it doesn't fit in our sound bite culture, but it's an important one for us to have as a country. and he's giving voice to it. i think people will come to it. and he's going to be a serious figure. he arrived on the national stage the other day. and he's going to stay there for a long time. >> let me ask this question of stephanie, just to flip the coin on the other side. your party, and you've been involved in a lot of democratic presidential contests. your party's going to have an open field in 2016. maybe joe biden will run, maybe hillary clinton, big players, maybe not. is this same debate going to play out in the democratic party? with very different conceptions about the use of force around the world? the president has run a relatively conservative,

relative assertive foreign policy in a lot of ways. is this going to be as big a wedge among the members of your party as it is among the members of steve's party, as he suggests? >> i think it's too soon to tell because we're not sure where this debate is going to go yet. but i think it's less likely on the democratic side than it is on the republican side because of the principles the president stands for, the principles of the people that you will likely see running for president in 2016, about, you know, protecting civil liberties at home, using smart warfare to fight wars abroad. but having that balance between our national security and our civil liberties. you know, it's too soon to tell. we don't know who's going to be running for president. you know, as soon as this debate started, what struck me is, you know, how quickly president obama and john brennan said that they wanted to work with congress to figure out the best

structure of open communication and moving forward on drones. because this is all new territory. yes, we've been using drones for quite a long time, but, you know, it is a primary means by which we fight terrorism today. and structures need to be put around that. the first person to give a speech on the need for structure was actually john brennan. so there is some leadership, you know, being shown on the part of the administration to figure out what structure do we need going forward to ensure that congress can play an oversight role here, and this can be a much more transparent process. >> much more to get to this morning. we're going to bring in david gregory, moderator of "meet the press." also "the washington post's" eugene robinson. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. morning, brian! love your passat!

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welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now from washington, d.c., pulitzer prize-winning columnist, associate editor of "the washington post" and also msnbc political analyst, eugene robinson. and also the moderator of "meet the press," david gregory. gentlemen, welcome. >> hey, guys. >> david, we'll start with you. we're all kind of accepting all of a sudden this presidential outreach that is happening fast and furious. how much do you have the white house believes this can change not just the culture and relationships but the actual process of thinking about a budget deal? >> well, i'm not sure how confident they are at this point, but i think they've come around to the idea that they've got to get caught trying. and what they're finding is that they're hitting certain roadblocks when it comes to leadership. that's been the experience of the last couple of years on budget matters. so if the president's view is going to prevail, he's got to start working members individually and start putting together some coalitions of the willing here. when it comes to budget matters.

so i hope it's a hopeful sign and it's something that we want to talk about on the program on sunday, whether there's a thaw in this hyperpartisanship and some actual pathways for things to get done. i think it's striking that it's not just about the budget. but the president's also talking about guns. he's talking about immigration. he's looking for these sweet spots where he can actually get some things done. >> hey, eugene, it's john heilemann here. i want to turn to the thing you've written today and turn away from the topic we were just talking about and turn back to the topic we were talking about before that which is rand paul. now, i've known you for a while. there's not many times there would be -- four words i would less expect to come out of your mouth than what you've written in your column today. rand paul was right. talk about that. >> yeah. i can't believe i wrote that either. you know, i checked myself into the local hospital immediately just to make sure i'm okay. but i'm okay. i think he did an important thing the other night. and by raising the question and

by talking about drones and this sort of new era we're in of drone warfare and how we use them. are we doing what we want to do? do we use them in a way that's consistent with our values and our freedoms? i think this is important stuff to talk about. and i'm happy that he raised it. and i can't believe i'm saying nice things about rand paul. >> can i just say, i mean, i think gene is right in that this was at least an attempt at more of a debate about this. i think that in your last segment you had a comment from senator paul about america becoming a battlefield, which i don't think is accurate. and i think the debate can be about what happens when the enemy, as broadly defined or an american overseas goes to join the enemy, and that's some debate. but i think that gene's point and to some extent senator paul's point is how do we define

where and what war we're in? and is it becoming too diffuse? so i think it's up to congress to actually start a real debate, if it wants it, on the authority that it gave president bush, after 9/11, to use drone attacks in the first place. so if they really want to be consistent on this, let's debate the authority to use this kind of lethal force. >> steve, we've seen senator graham get some criticism for criticizing senator paul. back to this question of the talks with the president. will the republican base be fine with people sitting in the room, as paul ryan did yesterday, as republican senators did the night before, talking to the president about a grand bargain, or is there pressure on them from their constituents, from potential nomination challenges to not talk to him at all? >> no no, there's going to be tremendous pressure from the base of the republican party or some elements of the republican party that it's a bad thing to talk to the president. you saw it echoed on "the rush limbaugh show." he said while the old guard was having dinner with the president, you know, the kids took over the campus, and the

rand paul filibuster. and there are going to be loud, shrill voices in the republican party that say that one of the things that you must do to be pure is to never speak to the president. so the president's in a position that if he's able to work with republicans, put together a coalition of the willing, he could possibly get some stuff done, be good for the country, it would be good for him politically. but at the same time, if he can't, he'll have maintained and gotten up on the high ground of reasonableness in the eyes of the american people. so it's smart politics for the president to do. and of course, republicans who don't want to engage with the president, they may make the base happy, but they're not going to look good in the eyes of the broad middle of the country. >> stephanie, do you think the president right now feels optimistic or still as kind of downcast and pessimistic as he has -- sounded, having gone through these successive failures, are we in a new place in terms of how he looks forward to the next few months? >> i think that the president is always an optimist. i think a couple of things.

i believe lindsey graham put together the dinner list. i think it was very smartly done because you had both conservative and moderate republicans in that room. which would breed some trust on the outside, that everybody was represented. i think that what the president is trying to do, the common-sense caucus that, you know, talking points coming out of the white house on this, there's no other option. the leadership doesn't have control of their caucuses. it's been proven time and time and time again. the president knows that. those folks in the white house know that. john boehner can't get a deal done because he doesn't have the support of his caucus. so let's go to the members of that caucus who could potentially put a deal together. there's no other option. this is the way it has to be done. and i think it's very smart what he's doing. >> michael steele, do you have an incisive analytical comment to make disguised as a question? >> no. look, i picked myself up off the floor after reading gene's piece this morning. you know, gene, brother, you just make my heart just so warm

to realize that you opened your eyes and saw things here. >> it won't happen again, michael, don't worry. >> i know. i know. i know. >> no, but i actually think politically, though, it is kind of interesting. it will be interesting to see if -- you know, mine is not the only voice on the left that has said, gee, that was a good thing rand paul did. frank rich said the same thing on a blog yesterday. and it will be interesting just to see if this has any political resonance out in the country. >> can i -- >> there's a question here of steve schmidt, it's david. even to gene's point there, yes, you're going to have liberals and libertarian conservatives who are going to see eye to eye on areas of civil liberties, which is what this is a debate about. so if that's the case, does it extend beyond here? does rand paul represent libertarianism within the

republican party that then will extend to gay marriage and other issues even in the realm of big social cultural debates where this new strain of conservatism will change its views and ultimately look to build a different kind of governing coalition or a coalition to win national elections? >> we don't know because we haven't seen it expressed in an articulate way in presidential debates yet. we haven't seen the opportunity for people to hear the message and then to look at the polling to see how that message is resonating. one of the things, you know, for sure is is that big-government conservatism, the conservatism that's peering through the bedroom window, the conservatism that seeks to regulate every aspect of the private life while decrying things like the individual mandate as being at the doorstep of tyranny. the libertarianism that rand paul expresses, let's keep the government out of the private life, let's have a republican

party that is attenuated once again to freedom, when that is fleshed out, we'll see how people respond to it. but i think it could be a powerful message in a republican primary. >> i wonder, too, stephanie cutter, just back to the president's outreach this week, i'm sure when, you know, you hear rush limbaugh or erick erickson who was on twitter yesterday saying that if you're up in 2014, the last thing you want to do is be at dinner with the president. that only reinforces the president's view that all of this urging from pundits and otherwise to get together with republicans is sort of unfounded. or does he believe, as i asserted, that this is an opportunity to go beyond leadership and try to put together some coalitions that are real? >> i think it's absolutely an opportunity to go beyond leadership because we've tried to go through leadership many times through the debt ceiling crisis in the summer of 2011 through the course of trying to avoid the sequester.

you know, it was interesting to me. i think it was just about a week ago, there was a story about how few republican caucus members actually knew that the president had a deficit reduction plan. and they didn't know the details of that deficit reduction plan. so i think through these meetings that the president is having, these dinners and lunches, we can make sure that the facts are actually known. and maybe if the facts are on the table, there will be a little bit more common sense. >> it is hard, though, to get the muscles exercised. i remember he first comes into office, he meets with all those conservative pundits, and then this is a big foray in his second term. this has not really been the norm for this president. >> well, the president -- i think he gets short shrift on this. he actually has done a significant amount of outreach. i remember those very long meetings that we had all summer, the summer of 2011, with people sitting around the table that the president would participate in to see if we could craft some sort of a grand bargain, deficit reduction deal. and there wasn't a willingness on the other side to come forward with that deal. and i think at the end of the day, it's because john boehner didn't have the support of his

caucus or the trust of his caucus. but i think this can change that. we're going underneath it. the president's going underneath it to build those relationships and have real discussions based on fact, not what leadership is telling them. >> david gregory, the next episode of "meet the press" is on sooner than most people think because we lose an hour saturday night. >> that's right. >> so if it's sunday, the longest-running show in the known universe, who do you have on? >> we're going to talk about whether the thaw in the hyp hyperpart sanship is real and a special discussion of lawmakers including senators kaine and coburn and also joe scarborough and sheryl sandberg's new book with our roundtable. >> david, thank you very much. eugene robinson, thank you as well. your jaw-dropping column available on washingtonpost.com. don't miss your column tomorrow in which you'll see which republican you're agreeing with next. i'm thinking a tom delay appreciation. coming up in a little bit

after the break, a conversation with former governor of florida, jeb bush, what he told the "morning joe" folks about immigration reform and what it might mean for a possible presidential run. keep it right here on "morning joe." [ male announcer ] marie callender's puts

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not that it makes you feel any better, but by sunday, it will be 50 degrees and sunny in new york city. this morning we're looking at slush. about an inch out there right now on the grassy surfaces. the trees are getting pasted now, even in new york city. i'm hearing reports of just a miserable commute this morning in and around northern jersey, southern new york, all the way through portions of new england. look at some of the snow totals. tolland, connecticut, once again, over a foot of snow already. worcester, mass, right behind it, ten inches. i believe we've got pictures of what it looks like in worcester, mass, right now. notice it's a little windy, too. notice it's not really sticking to the trees. notice it's a little colder. it's not that thick stuff. it's going to be blowing around a little more. the mass pike, very treacherous drive now. boston reporting five inches in downtown. more of a heavy, wet snow.

providence and hartford, a little less but still adding up quickly. even philadelphia, we do have a little bit of snow. so this storm right now is at its peak intensity as far as the snow coming down during the morning commute. and after this, it will begin to lighten up, especially throughout the afternoon hours. by far the worst of it, the darker shades here in the white, the blue, right from the worcester area to boston is the heaviest snows. up on 495 towards lowell, about an inch an hour currently. as i said, by the evening, temperatures will warm up in a lot of spots. the road crews will get to work, it will be a lot easier than this morning. the middle of the country is who we're watching throughout the weekend. there's a big storm bringing heavy rain into areas of los angeles, phoenix and tucson today. that moves into saturday into the midwest and the deep south. could deal with severe thunderstorms and a snowstorm in denver. you're expecting probably your biggest snowstorm of the winter in denver, up to about ten inches. and then by sunday, that will be exiting and all gone. once again, new england, you're the last ones to deal with our storm that has moved across the country. we're dealing with a treacherous

morning commute. well, coming up next here on "morning joe," maggie murphy is here with "parade's" always poll lar issue on what people earn. i wonder if there's anything in there about how much you should earn if you deal with joe and mika every day. we'll be right back.

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keep moving. stayfree. while thermocontrol wicks moisture away. (music throughout) why turbo? trust us. it's just better to be in front. the sonata turbo. from hyundai. here with us now, the editor in chief of "parade" magazine, maggie murphy here with the latest issue. this is a fun one. what people earn. maggie, good to see you. >> good to see you. >> i don't know where to begin here. let's start with some of the big names, and then we'll kind of go

down. bieber's pulling down 55? >> $55 million, and the fun fact is $6,261 an hour last year. though he lost a little money, i guess, last night, fainting on stage. but i think in general, bieber is, you know, the highest paid entertainer right now. you know, when you're a teen idol, you've got to take the money when you're getting it. big, big salary for him. >> another one that jumped out at us, i think all of us here, from television, mark harmon. we know he's on a successful show, "ncis," but i didn't know he was $38 million a year successf successful. >> highest paid actor on television. the guy from 240 robert all those years ago. and is apparently about to get a pay raise. you know, his salary's going up. and i think that shows you the stability of that show of those programs. >> he's ahead of brad pitt. >> yeah. like who would have thought? >> how long has mark harmon been on that show? >> that show's been on at least,

what, six, seven years? >> do you know his character? >> no, i don't. >> just making sure because i don't think there's a person on this set that could tell you. >> but we know it's on. >> we know it's on. >> and that is it. >> it's the consistency. i know the spin-off. >> crazy successful. >> you have guy fieri. it thoushows you the restaurant critics don't know anything. >> guy makes $100,000 an appearance for a speech and paula deen is on there for $16 million. john that is words to share. >> guy fieri is a whole other america. >> it's america, baby. >> it's a crime against nature. >> i think one of the interesting things from this package is what you learn about the jobs in america and who makes what. i think you see some trends here. for example, everybody says that the new kind of jobs is going to be skilled labor. you have to have -- you need a degree in engineering or whatever it is. and a lot of the people that make, you know, wastewater

engineer makes $78,000, pathologist's assistant, some of those numbers might be surprising to some people. >> you know, it's really interesting. we also wanted to find out if you're in high school and graduating, should you go to a college? and you know, should you go to a community college? and a lot of the folks that we met with who are engineers, you know, basically started out in a community college and then moved. you definitely need some school beyond high school. but there are a lot of jobs that were -- just need mathematics, the ability to embrace concepts, understanding how things come together in the sort of numeral structure of our world. that's where the next few years people should really put their energy and time. >> the one thing about brad pitt just because we've mocked it on the show, brad pitt, $7 million of that dollars that he earned last year was for that chanel ad. >> who's laughing? >> who's laughing now? >> meg, we also have a guy who

since he left the rnc has been pulling down mark harmon money, michael steele in d.c. >> hi, michael. >> hi, maggie. i didn't know i was doing that well. >> you can be on the list next year. >> right, exactly. maggie, you know, how important is it for a lot of these celebrities, in particular, but i guess for everybody out there who's trying to move up the ladder in some way, to move outside their sweet spot, that comfort zone, to sort of diversify their portfolio, if you will so that they can maximize their potential as, you know, they age in their industry or they look at other opportunities down the road? does that factor into how these numbers shape out? >> absolutely. i think the key word for everyone on this list is mobility. i mean, the reality is you have to be able to, if you're a music star, you have to be able to sell perfume the way justin bieber does. if you're a veteran coming back, you have to be willing to go where the jobs are. you know, i think that being

able, even if you're looking to start a business, you've got to think in a mobile society, what could i do? you know, what structure, what services could i bring? mobility is the key, key thing. and i think the ability to also, within your field, move around. i mean, i think young people can't count on companies being around for 20 years the way i worked, and the reality is that you're going to need to keep moving. >> there's some fun ones to look at, lebron james, $57 million, anne hathaway, $10 million. you touched on a meese i wanted to get to which is the veterans piece in the magazine. >> right. >> a lot of veterans struggle to find work in the field when they come back. there's a new group that has a new device on their website that helps people find careers. what are you and what are others telling veterans to do to sort of microtarget and find where the jobs are that are best for them? >> kevin shmigel who runs the u.s. chamber of commerce has

basically said go where the jobs are. veterans coming home, they want to go back to their support systems. they want to probably go to their hometowns, but that may not be the best place as they move forward. there are great jobs in the middle of the country, especially around north dakota where you have drilling. you have opportunity for welders, $55 an hour. the other thing is a lot of companies, walmart, toyota, have really decided we're going to cut duown on this 29% unemployment that veterans are facing when they're coming home. i think much better than we have in previous returning veteran eras, we're doing a really good job getting veterans to understand those four years that they spent in the military were as good a prep as four years in college. and they have skills that i think american businesses will really benefit from. >> and on the other side, businesses are getting smarter, too, recognizing the skills that veterans have that can contribute to the company so it's not an act of charity. it's an act of helping your business by hiring a veteran. >> oh, absolutely. talk about you need -- you know,

what you need in the office these days. you need people who know how to communicate, problem solve, deal with logistics. you know, these are the things that veterans in that skill set have learned. i think they'll be welcomed back in much more warmly than they faced in other things. and i think we're really focused on the problem and getting folks hired again. and i think we're all the better for it. >> i'm glad you focused on that in the issue. >> thank you. >> it's a fun one to read. did you have a favorite salary in there, mark halperin? >> did i have a favorite salary? >> adele, 32. she deserves that. >> and basically only going to go up because last year she did not tour. she had throat surgery and became a mom. she's going to be pushing bieber for that per-hour soon. >> maggie murphy, thanks so much. the new "parade" magazine, "what people earn." coming up next, there's a war going on in south africa's national parks. a new animal planet mini-series takes us inside the battle between poachers and park

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it's really incredible to see these rhinos in the wild and it's a bit unnerving to see how

close we're able to get to them. >> i don't understand how anybody would kill these animals. >> no. look at the size of that moon. that's a giant light for these poachers. the team is ready at this point. the poachers' moon is up. we're ready to get some. now you see what you've been called to do, what you've been called to protect. >> that was a scene from animal planet's new mini-series battle ground rhino wars. here with us now, a green beret whose full name we will not use. gentlemen, thanks for being here. >> it's a pleasure. >> so i'll set the backdrop. where are we and what is this fight about? >> it's in south africa. this fight is really about saving the last of a species that's been around for 50 million years and has been

pushed to the brink of extinction by sheer greed. >> how did you guys enter this story? if this is a south african story, why do we have two americans entering? >> it is a south african story but it's a global problem because we're all losing our rhinos. we don't have them here net states unless they're in a zoo. so i got a call from the head of the production company, who's heavily involved in why would life conservation. he said how do you feel about raising public awareness? >> i said, i think that's a beautiful idea. let's make it happen. >> who are the approachers? who are you up against? >> it's really a wide range of people, mostly crime syndicates who run drugs and anything they can turn a profit in the black market. neighboring countries,

mozambique, zimbabwe, local villagers being exploited, but the big money's being made in china and other asian countries. >> do you come face-to-face are or you in protective mowed? >> we come face-to-face with the poachers. >> what about your military training prepared you for this and what were some new things you had to learn about wildlife? >> i think our military training was perfect for this. if you look at the history of what special operations has been asked to do for this country, it's going into bad places sometimes with an unknown force and problem solving, how do you fight that force. so i think that was very, very pivotal for us to fall back on. we didn't know what we were walking into. we had no idea the magnitude of the organization these syndicates had. >> they killed park rangers as well.

>> right. you're talking about a lot of money. you're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars per animal. so you're talking about 700 animals killed last year. let's be conservative and say $250,000 per animal, that's a lot of money. they don't care who you are. >> 700 rhinos but also more than 100 park rangers have been killed. you guys have any intense moments out there? >> we do. these poachers will shoot first and ask questions later. they have no regard for human life or animal life. so they're armed to the teeth to get in there and take their prize and get out and we've got to put ourselves in harm's way to stop them so it gets a little bit like this, but we're accustomed to that. we've spent our lives defending the defenseless, whether american citizens or rhinos. same principle. >> ozzie, ready to step in and put your life out for rhinos? >> i have. i'd like to address the tendency

of this is a south african is the wrong approach. we all agree we don't want our kids to look at rhinos in picture books or in a zoo, so i think the only way to initiate some change or the animal is to accept that and take responsibility, get ownership in that concept and say, yeah, these are animals and this is not okay. >> give us a sense of the scale of this thing. so you're on the ground over there. how big of an area are you talking about? what's a day like in terms of what's out in the field? >> it's the size of switzerland so it's a vast amount of wilderness to cover. so we can't patrol in defensive mowed. we've got to run operations just like against a terrorist group. we've got to figure out when and where they're going to strike and put ourselves in a position through raids, ambushes, vehicle

interdictions. we don't talk about that. you'll see that in season two. >> we're grateful to your service to this country. battle ground: animal wars airs on animal plant, thursdays, 9 pm, 8 central. >> coming up next, john brennan confirmed at cia director only after an old-school filibuster exposes fault lines. i know what you're thinking...

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good morning. it's 8:00 on the east coast, 5 a.m. as you wake up out west. a live look at a snowy, rainy wintry new york city. back with us on set, mark halperin, john heilemann, lee gag ger, and down in washington with us, michael steele. >> did you see this photograph on the front page of the "new york times." that is an awkward moment in the senate elevator between john mccain in the back there, rand paul in the foreground. if you go online in the "new york times," there's a forebox that shows the progression of how that run-in took place. why is that awkward? because senator rand paul's filibuster may have done more to create rifts than it did on drone strikes. his nearly 13-hour stand was

appraised in a wide range of circles from peace activists to the tea party, but fellow republicans including senator mccain and lindsey graham are slamming his protest. >> the country needs more senators who care about liberty. but if mr. paul wants to be taken seriously, he needs to do more than pull political stunts that fire up impressionable kids. >> to my republican colleagues, i don't remember any of you coming down here suggesting that president bush was going to kill anybody with a drone. i don't even remember the harshest critics of president bush on the democratic side. they had a drone program back then. so what is it all of a sudden that this drone program has gotten every republican so spun up? to my party, i'm a bit disappointed that you no longer

apparently think we're at war. >> kids in their college dorms. in an interview with senator paul hit back with those republican critics. >> i think they're on the wrong side of history on this one. they are of the belief that the war is everywhere, so they kind of agree with some of the things the president's been saying, that there are no geographic limitations. they also then say that the laws of war apply. well, the laws of war basically mean that you don't get due process, and i can understand that in the battle field. i'm not more reading miranda rights to people shooting at us. if you're an opposing soldier and you shoot at me, we kill you. there's no jury trials, no due process. but they say america's the battle field. that's a huge mistake and i think most americans would disagree with them. >> john brennan's nomination who was temporarily blocked was confirmed yesterday by a vote of 63-34. both mccain and graham voted to

support brennan with graham calling it, quote a referendum. they hammered the south carolina republican for dining with president obama at a d.c. restaurant at the same time, senator paul was questioning the administration. threat of a challenge from the right is exactly why some people believe senator minority leader mitch mcconnell who is up for re-election next year decided to support senator paul's filibuster. senator rubio was also a public backer of that filibuster. senator paul meanwhile is claiming victory after he received a letter from the administration stating that the president cannot order a deadly strike against an american on u.s. soil who is not engaged in combat. so now the freshman senator telling politico he is seriously considering running for president in 2016.

let's start with you, michael steele, what did you see yesterday as you watched john mccain go after rand paul and then hand it off to lindsey graham. what did it tell you about the republican party? >> it doesn't say much about the republican party as it did about the inability of some within the party to understand where this is going. i think rand paul made a very important stance yesterday. he got the administration to admit something that it heretofore refused to admit to, and i thought it was rather insulting for the way that these gentlemen responded to this. look, i got the joke. you saw a lot of folks waiting all day long to see how these winds were going to blow. had their finger in the air, and then by 9:00 last night or the night before, they were jumping on the bandwagon. but rand paul made a very principled argument before the nation that asked a very simple question, will this administration execute a policy that will kill a united states

kaes on american soil with a drone? break it down and give us an answer. so this concept that the war is everywhere does not mean that the laws of war apply to everything. and i think that that was something that rand paul very, very aptly brought out, and so you know, graham and mccain have a difference of opinion here. i thought that the way they aired that difference of opinion was insulting. >> mark, you almost had to stop and process what you were seeing yesterday for a minute. here were senator john mccain and senator lindsey graham fighting vehemently to defend president obama's policy. it was a little disorienting. >> well, they've been very hawkish and they've pressured not just this president but the previous one to some extent. rand paul, like his father, scrambles republican politics. when it comes to foreign policy from the libertarian side.

you've got a bunch of young senators who are not afraid to go off the old establishment. there are pictures in the "new york times," as you pointed out, two of them in the elevator, those elevators are very big. in this case i don't think it was quite big enough because senator mccain, when he's angry, and i think it was fair to say he was angry yesterday, he doesn't hide it very well. and rand paul is fearless. like mike lee of utah, like some of these younger republican senators, ted cruz, they're not afraid of older senators. they're willing to kind of break some china, and mccain and lindsey graham are coming right back at him, as you said, in support of a democratic president. >> john, what'd you see yesterday? >> well, i think, it's interesting, the times says in its headline, that the drone debate scrambles both left and right. there are a set of issues, and particularly issues that revolve around civil liberties, where the standard issues don't work

very well. you have pat leahy, a totally respectable democratic senator who voted no on the brennan nomination. you have ron wyden, the senator from oregon, who's very much on rand paul's side. so you have these libertarian questions, you have the libertarian impulse that lives on the left and the right. so you see even weird ebb bedfellows in the notion that ron wyden ends up being an ally of rand paul on this and ends up opposing the administration on these policies. they go to core issues around due process, around interpretation of the constitution, around war powers. that kind of stuff sometimes is not a democrat-republican thing. it's places where different, weird coalitions get exposed and get built. it's not that surprising that that's happening because this is

one of those issues that deep a and we're seeing really the first stages of a debate that's going to go on for the next 20, 30 years. >> it does seem like rand paul did a couple of things that raised his profile. everybody was talking about him for 13 hours. also he managed to form this strange coalition. >> i think that's more interesting than the rifts that it exposed in the republican party, which is divided in many ways right now. so i think that's really interesting. and it is a debate that is going to be with us for a while. we've talked about this. there's serious questions here. what are the standards? there's 50 countries that either have or are developing drones, and we set the standard. we are the -- people are looking to us as how to handle this. so this is a very big, important conversation and it did as michael steele said, put it in the light yesterday.

>> what do you make of this in the drone policy? >> i'm not as bothered by the policy as rand paul or even my dear friend ron wyden is. i think the president clarified through remarks by jay carney, making clear that extraordinary circumstances is all that would cause the president to make a decision to use lethal force against someone on american soil, albeit an american. the president swore to uphold the constitution and i believe he will. the senate has an obligation to act. this program has worked and worked successfully. it has kept american soldiers out of harm's way around the globe. i understand the focus of yesterday's debate was whether or not this force could be used on an american on american soil. but i think it's been clarified by the administration. i think it was appropriate for

rand paul to raise these questions. i had no issue with him filibustering as he did. the dispute between he and lindsey graham and john mccain and something they need to work out themselves, but the fact that he raised these issues, i think to john's point and to leigh's point, it democrats how issues of war thankfully don't inspire the kind of rancor see see from taxes to entitlement policies, so it was refreshing to see this discussion. but i don't think the white house and the justice department were challenged on this. i think the person most out of line was probably ted cruz, but that's another conversation. i thought general holder did a phenomenal job in answering the questions, but i think his justice department responded quickly and sufficiently. >> do you have any questions about targeting u.s. citizens

abroad? >> as i've said on this show many times before, and joe and i had disagreed. i think if you socialize, dine with, spend time with known terrorists on a list of those who want to do harm to america, you put yourself at peril. i don't dine with people on a terrorist list around the globe. these are messy and complicated issues, but i happen to have some level of trust and confidence in our military personnel and intelligence personnel to make these kind of decisions. what i do think has to happen for the administration is they've got to lay out these criteria, these rules in a more transparent way. that's what i hope will come out of this discussion in a back and forth among paul and senator graham and senator mccain. >> speaking of dining with the naomi, let's talk the meals taping place. president obama had his second date in two days with top republicans.

the president had lunch yesterday with his former vice-presidential opponent paul ryan. also chris van holland. the group discussed a range of issues from the deficit to sequester cuts. just the night before, the president dined with top senate members. all nearly all described it as optimistic, speaker john boehner added an if to the dialogue. >> i did have a conversation with the president last friday. it's interesting that this week we've gone 180. now after being in office four years, he's actually going to sit down and talk to members. i think it's a sign, a hopeful sign, and i'm hopeful that something will come out of it. but if the president continues to insist on tax hikes, i don't think we're going to get very far. >> mark halperin, is this a meaningful change in strategy or a cosmetic thing for the

president to inoculate himself against the criticism? >> a number of people on this program not that long ago said let's except the president's going to do stuff like this. i'm glad you didn't play the archives of that. the white house has been really smart. they've chosen people like paul ryan, the people the president reached out to, like rob portman, people willing to work with the president. and i think if they keep if up, it's the right thing to do. i think he's got to do it because he needed to change the dynamic. michael steele, do you think republicans like paul ryan, like rob portman and others at the dinner, senator mccain, are going to be free to build coalitions with the president, or do you think they'll be yanked back? >> i think they'll do both, and i think it's smart, the

president's selection of individuals to help him. he's got a team at the table, he can begin to rework the grand bargain which is now back in play. at the same time those individuals who were at that dinner can network within the caucus itself, understand and appreciate where those who will not budge at all are, and isolate them and begin to pull to that table those who are going to be willing to work with them to get something done. this all i think is going to be a big play, this round at least, out of the senate. the house is going to be a sort of a secondary player to a certain degree. yes, paul ryan is at the table now to an extent, but i really think the president and the white house are going to look to those twelve senators who were at that dinner to really help fashion the next round of the grand bargain. >> john, michael says the grand bargain is back in play. although you listen to john boehner talk about new resins and taxes, it's hard to imagine where he moves on that.

so where is the middle ground in the grand bargain if there is one? >> i don't know where it is, and i'll say that i think it's -- i don't think that the white house is operating in bad faith in doing any of this and i don't think they're doing it just to provide an excuse or response to their critics who have said they haven't reached out. i think they're genuinely trying to find a way to a deal. but a benefit of this is to smoke out what the real substantive differences are and when you see boehner react like that, it was almost a mocking tone in the way he said i'm glad to see the president's doing this now after four years but then he comes back to the substance that most of the house won't accept new resin. until someone gives on that question, there's not going to be a grand bargain. that's the nature of the grand bargain. i think the white house could do a grand bargain with the senate, but the biggest problem as it has been for the last two years has been the vast majority of the house republican caucus will

not accept new revenue in this deal, and until that changes, there's no grand bargain. and i don't know that these dinners or lunches or any of the other socializing is going to change that basic fact in john boehner's caucus. >> coming up, governor chris christie enjoying a record approval among women, but one group is putting him on notice against what he calls anti-family policies. and up next, all signs point to 2016 for jeb bush, but will the muddled imagine on immigration hurt him. first, bill karins has a look at the forecast. >> it's been ugly all week. this is the huge storm that started in north dakota on monday and today will be the last day in new england. it's just a monster ocean storm. it's five to six hundred miles away from cape cod. let me show the setup here.

it's a hose of moisture coming at new england. all the air is converging. that's why we're seeing all the snow. we've seen snow total reports as high as a foot, also near worcester near a foot. and it is snowing very hard in the boston area. quarter mile visibility. that's about as low as it gets on the scale. that means about 1 to 2 inches an hour in the peak of the rush hour. the snow's lighter around the new york city where 1 or 2 slushy inches as accumulated, but up in jersey, as much as 8 inches. so this storm has overproduced. boston, about 5, adding about an inch an hour. you'll probably end up close to 7 or 8. the good news is this weekend looks beautiful. for our friends on the west coast, you're dealing with rain in l.a. you're watching "morning joe,"

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this week was a big one for jeb bush. he made headlines with his take in the immigration debate and the fate of the republican in this instant mojo rewind, here's the former governor of florida a couple days ago where he discussed his anticipated new book, "immigration wars, forging an american solution."

. >> your dad's doing a lot better, huh? >> he is. he's getting stronger every day. >> and your brother's library's opening pretty soon? >> yes, in april. everybody's excited about that in dallas. >> and you've lost weight. you look good. >> i don't know. i'm on the scarborough diet. >> that's not going to help you at all. >> we need five more munchkins over here. >> i want to start with what was in the miami herald and launch into the conversation because there's a former romney adviser who takes a shot at you for changing your position. apparently you were e-mailing at one point, the adviser reported, where the hell was this jeb bush during the campaign, the manager said. he spent all this time criticizing mitt romney. so he wants people to go back to

their country and apply for citizenship? that's self deportation. we got creamed for talking about that. >> do we have to talk about unnamed advisers as part of rule here? >> but is there a change? >> no. >> so talk about the book, first of all. >> so the book has six points to it. it's comprehensive immigration reform, different than what was advocated in the campaign by either candid, frankly, a year ago. now there's a consensus brewing amongst democrats and republicans that there needs to be a consensus. we wrote this book last year, not this year, and we proposed a path to legalization. >> what's the difference between a path to legalization and a path to citizenship and why is that so important? >> the principle underlying what we've proposed is that if you don't have a difference between

a path to citizenship or a path to legalization, you're going to create a magnet going forward for more. >> you're going to repeat what happened in the reagan amnesty. >> so going forward, if there is a difference, if you can craft that in law, where you can have a path to citizenship where there isn't an incentive for people to come illegally, i'm for it. i don't have a problem with that. i don't see how you do it, but i'm not smart enough to figure out every aspect of a really complex law. but i think the premise should be, this should be a forward-leaning immigration reform. it should be, what's it going to look like five years after you pass the law? and five years after you pass the law, you want aspiring immigrants to come, people who can make a difference to jump start our economy, and you don't have to have a repeat of the last 30 years where you have

more people coming in illegally and waiting in line or no line at all to come legally. >> you started wanting republicans back in 1994 of the growing number of hispanics that were going to get out there. a good thing, by the way, a very good thing, but 16, 17, 18 years later after you were issuing those warnings, we got beaten because we did so poorly with hispanic voters and this was a big part of the issue. >> i would say the best indicator of the canary in the coal mine, if you will, is asian american voters, where you have higher incomes, more intact families, more entrepreneurship. president obama won by bigger

numbers than the hispanic margin, which is an indication of kind of a stiff arm. >> not just tone, willie, perspective, and it's a losing formula for republicans moving forward if they don't change it. >> it is. and if you look at this moment and you sort of do the diagnostics, what are some of the other things the republican party needs to stand for? >> first of all, i wish mitt romney was president right now because i think we would have someone who would be in the midst of trying to forge consensus. it breaks my heart he's not there. his campaign wasn't the best but he would have been a really fine president. i think going forward, we have to deal with our longer structural problems. the biggest one, as far as i'm concerned, is that we're no longer socially mobile as a country.

you have people that are born poor and there's a higher and higher probability they're going to stay poor. it is so un-american, and yet none of the conversation in the debates are about this, but upward mobility is the chance to solve a lot of problems because then people don't default to out of fear or exasperation. get in line, basically. if they feel like life isn't fair to them, they can't succeed. it's only the big interests that can succeed, big government, big business and all that. then they default to something that looks a little bit more like europe than historically what our country looks like. >> -- get the upper hand on that issue. >> so immigration is part of that, and i'm pleased there are people that have embraced this idea and working diligently to create a consensus. marco rubio i think has done great work and deserves to be

appraised. but education reform, if people don't have the skills to succeed, no matter how much they dream, if they don't have the skills to make those dreams come true, it's not going to work. i think tax reform is something that would make this possible as well. there are a whole lot of people in our country today that don't see the benefits of deferral of gratification to be successful. so there's a lot of things we could do. regulatory reform. rules are created for the 1970s. we're living in a completely different world. embrace invasion. embrace the dynamic interaction of people rather than always having a government response to every problem we face, and then persuading people that that's the better path. >> we only have a minute left but we have three questions. >> rapid fire, you got one? >> yes. >> go. >> so governor, when you look at

education and the educational reform that has to take place and the upward mobility, can you flesh that out a little bit more? >> high standards for everybody, not lower standards for one group. more school choice, more compensation for teachers tied to student improvement. a demand that we have equality of education because we don't today. that we spend the money on reforms to assure that every child has a chance to learn. we don't have that today in america. too many places, there's just pockets of illiteracy because we don't have the same standards for them. >> we're going to the game change 2016 question where mark halperin is standing by. >> governor, if there was a piece of legislation that had a pathway to citizenship, people came here illegally, would you support that? >> i would support it if it didn't create an incentive for

people to come illegally at the expense of coming legally. today, mark, there is no path to citizenship for a majority of the people that are trying to come to the country. if you say get in line, there is no line, or the line is so large that it's a mythical line. 160 years for lines in philippines. so if you change the system so there is a legal path and you have a different term for people that are here already illegally so that the incentive isn't to continue to have that process, then i would support that for sure. the book doesn't propose that because this is a clearer way to create that delineation. >> before you go, i'm curious of what you think of chris christie as a leader. >> i love the guy. >> and also conservative organizations are making proper use -- >> i saw it. >> are they taking advantage of his popularity and his ability

to -- >> well, they took advantage of it last year and i'm sure they'll take advantage of this year. they've got low lives like me this year. >> i don't think so. [ male announcer ] the lexus command performance sales event has begun. ♪ featuring the powerful gs. ♪ just when you thought you had experienced performance a new ride comes along and changes everything. ♪

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welcome back to "morning joe." we have what we call in the trade some breaking news. "business before the bell" now

with cnbc's brian shactman. the word of the day is robust. >> yes, we've got some pretty good numbers for you. the monthly jobs report plus 230,000 jobs. now for perspective, folks, the expectation was for plus 160,000. the unemployment rate goes down to 7.7%. this is definitely an up side. and dow at an all-time high already. we look at an open of plus 90,000. i want to go in the numbers just a little bit. 28,000 jobs created in juxta, 32,000 in healthcare. 10,000 in retail. the negative number was 10,000 jobs lost in government. so the private sector job creation -- the overall number was 236. one thing last month, was revised downward but not enough to take the shine off of this.

>> brian, what do you think the market will do today? there's no telling, right? >> yeah, there's to telling. i think right now, it's one of the things that you don't get in the way of a freight train, and you get in data, forget about the fed and all this easy money, you get a data point. right now we would open another 90 points plus. it would have to probably be some significant news to reverse it. so it looks like we're still chugging forward. i know you guys have been talking about the average person who's been watching the show, they don't want to get burned at the top again, and you have no idea if it's going to go much further from here. >> a lot of investors are still on the sidelines so that's one of the many reasons why the fundamentals of this rally, despite the suspicion out there, if you look at the even the pricing of stocks, they're not totally overpriced right in and

out. >> right. i made two quick points on that. it's funny because it isn't been a rotation of money out of bonds and into stocks, it's been money coming from outside. she basically has said that these activists are demanding money back from these companies. so that's another thing tacked be a leg up, as companies start to give money back to shareholders. >> brian, thank you. one month is great. let's see if we get a second month. thanks brian shactman. coming up next here on "morning joe," the president of emily's list, spec list, her company's push to get more women elected to office.

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joining us now is the president of emily's list, stephanie schriock. mike barnicle and nicole wallis also with us. stephanie, great to have you onboard. >> thank you. great to be here. >> since the inception of emily's list, it's had a great impact. tell us first of all, what it is for those who don't know. >> absolutely. emily's list, a 28-year-old organization is a network of now 2 million women and men across the country that support pro-choice democratic women for office, and our sole goal is to change who's representing us in congress at the state level and governorships and ultimately someday in the white house. >> well, this past election cycle there were i think some huge opportunities for emily's list given some of the republican candidates.

were you all able to take advantage of it? >> it was incredible, in fact for us, it was a historic cycle. we ended up looking at a united states senate where we had 20 women now in the united states senate, the first time in our nation's history. 16 women to the house of representatives, and we know we've got a lot more work to do but we're getting there. >> mike barnicle. >> does emily's list select candidates? obviously there's a litmus test? >> we only support democratic pro-choice women. and then we look at what's going on in the state and the dynamics of the situation before we put a full-throated endorsement behind somebody. >> have you had any races where another woman is opposing another woman for the same office? >> we have, we have. sadly, it doesn't happen as nearly as often as it should, because it seems to be always the case with the men. but we are seeing that more and

more and in some situations we stay out. if it's a democratic primary and there's two women, sometimes we stay out. we continue to run against republican women because we are democrats and we believe we have to keep growing those democratic numbers in congress as well. >> have you ever felt tempted to get involved and help a pro-choice republican woman when there's no better alternative in the race? >> organizationally when we seth it up 28 years ago, the mission was clear that it was pro-choice democratic women, and actually the reason that was set up is particularly at the time, it was hard to get support from the party structure for women. you think about when emily's list started, no democratic woman had won a seat in the united states senate ever, and then barbara mckulski was the first one. there's this great story where she talks about there wasn't a

women's bathroom in the united states senate when she got to the senate in 1986. >> so recent. >> we had mtv before there was a bathroom for women in the united states senate i would love to see a pro-choice counterpart organization to do the same thing for women in the republican party. >> what would you had done though, this is a hypothetical, obviously, had you a republican primary against a neanderthal like todd akin. >> personally, i would cringe, but again, i would hope in that case that the republicans would choose the right way. but the truth is they're not, they're choosing the todd achens. in 2010, which was a huge republican year, huge swing,

they had a record number of women running in the party that year, but less than a third of those women made it through their primaries. the republican party is moving very far to the right. maybe they'll change as time goes on, but right now we haven't seen it, and i think it's hard for pro-choice republican moderate women to make it through those primaries. and those that are there are slipping away. >> what do you make of the support among women for kansas city -- chris christie in new jersey? >> the first majority leader in the senate there in new jersey has done some great work both in supporting women's issues but also in cutting out government waste, $4.5 billion that she has pulled out of waste in new jersey. we recognize we're not getting in this lightly. we know this is a tough race. he's very popular right now.

but if you look underneath the numbers, his polling is upside down on economy, jobs and taxes. this campaign is going to be about economic issues. we have to make the case and we've got the time to do it. >> all right. thanks very much for coming in. stephanie schriock, president of emily's list. it's very good to have you on the show. more "morning joe" in just a moment. [ male announcer ] this is joe woods' first day of work. and his new boss told him two things -- cook what you love, and save your money. joe doesn't know it yet, but he'll work his way up from busser to waiter to chef before opening a restaurant specializing in fish and game from the great northwest. he'll start investing early, he'll find some good people to help guide him, and he'll set money aside from his first day of work to his last, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade.

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>> i want to thank rand paul for making this brave stance because it is good to know that they cannot kill us. and i'm sure there was no classified second legal opinion overriding that one which we don't know about. doesn't change my opinion. no matter what anybody says, i love drones. do you hear that, drones? [ applause ] >> steven love you. [ applause ] it's not what you think. it's a phoenix with 4 wheels. it's a hawk with night vision goggles. it's marching to the beat of a different drum. and where beauty

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presidential campaign. nobody told him he won. >> getting something done, it's the whole ethos of problem solving. >> washington's filled with known sequestrians. >> that's the great song, sequestered. ♪ >> paul krugman, versus the world. i meant it as a compliment. >> the playbook headline from the smackdown on charlie rose. scarborough, and krugman. >> it's a generational theft,

we're stealing money from our children. >> i would go for another 12 hours, but i've discovered there are some limits to filibustering and i'm going to have to take acqui care of one of those there. >> whether you're a liberal or conservative watching rand paul, i think you have to admire the guy. ♪ >> it looked good. >> i'm on the scarborough diet. >> need about five more munchkins here. >> what was his only desire the week of his birthday? to come and meet mika. not you, joe. he doesn't care about you. >> of course. ♪ >> are you angry about when it comes to having george