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thanks to all of you, a terrific discuss io thanks to all of you. a terrific discussion. sorry our audience can't still be with us. we'll continue for a few minutes. that is all for today. we'll be back next week. if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."

good sunday afternoon to you. i'm craig melvin. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. and if it's sunday, it must be -- >> former florida governor jeb bush. >> governor, we want to -- [ speaking spanish ] >> thanks for joining us, governor. >> governor bush, thank you. >> the former governor, six ways from sunday. if he's not running for something, what's he doing? >> i think it was very good for the president to have that dinner. >> i think the president has to stay directly involved. >> i don't think anybody came away from there expecting we're going to come up with some grand bargain. >> and three of the gop senators

who broke bread with the president dished out. if there's no grand bargain, can we expect the fights to continue? and there's something you don't see every day. a sitting congressman nearly 70 years old, suited up and in the ring. in today's political headlines, security threats can sell the news conference with hagel and karzai. he's been in afghanistan meeting with troops and afghan leaders. thomas perez could be the next labor secretary of state. the report says president obama is poised to nominate perez who is currently the head of the justice department's civil rights decision. he would replace hilda solis who resigned in january. and former florida governor jeb bush appeared on all the sunday talks this week and he

was asked if he'll run for president in 2016. here's what he's told cnn. >> now i've decided to defer any consideration until the proper time to make those considerations which is out, you know, more than a year from now for sure. >> jeb bush may not be ready to talk 2016, wu that has not talked the rest of the political world, including us. i want to bring in goldie taylor, managing editor of the golding taylor project. a.b. stod erd for the hill. goldy, we'll start with you. we think it may be jeb bush. he hit all five of the major shows and telemundo ostensibly to promote his new book "immigration wars." how much of this was about pushing the book? how much was this about making

sure that everyone in america know that he's still in the 2016 game? >> you know, when you're an active politician, to write a book means something. it means you're lag out policemanform on any given issue. this one happens to be immigration. unfortunately he did not take this book and embed it with his closest advisers. in the last 24 hours we saw him flip-flop on the dead center of immigration, whether or not immigrants already living in the country should have a pathway to citizenship. one of the things that i found stark with the book is that he said, although they should not have a pathway to citizenship in the book, he wants them to be fined, he wants them to plead guilty. if you plead guilty, then you can't get a job. you know, that's a felony record. so he cuts off the economic opportunity, you know, for people who want to immigrate into this country, so i'm not really sure how well thought out this entire debacle happened to be. >> a.b., it's strange he decided

to carry this position now at the same time the gop is trying to court hispanic voters, no? >> absolutely. jeb bush was seen as a, you know, ready a leader, a pioneer in this area, trying to get the party to reform and actually change its mind about a key policy issue. for him to suddenly turn when there's finally an effort afoot, a bipartisan effort, a real earnest one, it looks like it's going to bear fruit and turn around and say something that's different from his own position in the past, from the position that these -- you know, politically brave senators in his own party as well as the democrats who were joining them are taking is really strange. and no one -- you know, i love when the press is blamed for jumping on 2016. but when you've got someone like jeb bush pushing himself on five

sunday shows in one day, we have choice but to think he's running in 2016. >> goldy jusgoldie just alluded. "a grant of citizenship is an undeserving reward for conduct that we cannot afford to encourage." he took a different path on "meet the press" this morning. listen to this. >> if they can find a way to get to a path of citizenship over the long haul, then i would support that. >> all right. so that's a bit of a change from the governor's previous path to the support of citizenship. why take such a hard line in the book but when you talk on a sunday show, you soften your stance. what's the disconnect? >> the governor said he wrote the book before the election.

that point they were hardening their position on immigration. so he's really muddied his message because of this book and because of his previously stated position. in the senate they've already essentially gotten behind these group of negotiators, behind the pathway to citizenship. really the fight in those talks of those eight senators is about the issue of lower skilled workers, about business and labor agreeing to a program, a visa program, that would attract foreign workers, lower skilled workers into the country, the path to citizenship, and that being tied to enforcement measures generally resolved. jeb bush is sort of behind senate republicans on this issue. >> hang on one second. i wanted to bring in howard

fineman on breaking new on another upcoming major race, this one for the snort of kentucky. howard, of course, also an msnbc political analyst as well. he joins me on the phone. good afternoon, sir, you're reporting on sources that say 44-year-old ashley judd has decided she's definitely going to be running against senate minority leader mitch mcconnell. i understand you just got back from louisville. >> what i can tell you is that she has told several key people that she's in and that she will announce sometime in and around derby, which is the kentucky derby, which is the first saturday in may, i'm guessing late april leading up to the derby, maybe up to the beginning of may. the attention of the country on louisville at that time. she'll make a big play.

that's what she's told people, that she's in. >> how has she gone about laying the groundwork? >> she's being very methodical. she sat down with kirsten jigil brandt gillibrand from new york. she's talking to a lot of different media people who might help her. the name i hear is j.b. porschp. she's been working close with emily's list. my sense of it and the reporting i did is she decided she wanted to get into politics around the time she went up to har vrd to get a graduate degree in public administration in 2009. this is something she thinks is in her blood and something she

thinks is her destiny. she's living in tennessee. i heard she was looking at running in tennessee. that didn't play the way she wanted it to or the cards didn't fall the way she wanted it to, so she returned to look at her home, which is kentucky. she was born in california, but she was reared in kentucky, a big u.k. basketball fan. and, you know, she's a roll of the dice fordom car democrats. she'll be an unpredictable foe if she ends up running. >> howard fineman on this afternoon breaking news for us. thank you. we appreciate it. >> of course. thank you very much. >> goldie, let's start with you. does she win in kentucky? >> in and win are two different things. if she gets in, she'll clear the field. i don't know of anywhere in all

of kentucky who would step up to ashley judd and have the kind of fund-raising prowess. it makes you a stronger candidate. it's like showing up to the super bowl without having played the regular southbound, so i think that's going to be problematic. what's also going to be problematic right away is mitch mcconnell -- miss judd, do you share kentucky's values, and he's going to show point after point after point that she just might be out of touch even with democrats in kentucky. >> and goldie alluded to it as well. we're talking about the bluegrass state here. president obama won four. ashley judd has railed against coal. coal is responsibility for at least 24,000 jobs in the state of kentucky. she says she winters in scotland and spends a great deal of time traveling and these are not generally things people from kentucky can afford spending a great deal of time doing. it's going to be an uphill

battle for her to say the least in kentucky. if she is going to win there, how is she going to go about doing it? >> that's an interesting question. this is a seat the democrats would clearly have written off. i would be hard to run against mitch mcconnell. someone would do well but would not beat him. now he has no choice but to run against her. she's going big foot everybody else, but mitch mcconnell -- she will be a national target. he will, you know, run against hollywood, she's going to be a carpetbagger, he's going to find a lot of her environmental feelings extremist and job killing. as she pointed outer ler, she's going to talk about kentucky values and whether or not she shares them. mitch mccobble has a tough battle ahead. is he in? is he out? is he an obstructist or a

bipartisan dealmaker? that's a fine straddle for him to be making, even though he's so important here in leadership, his numbers at home are not that great, so it's going to be a high-profile national race, but i think it's going to be difficult for both of them, and at this point i'm not willing to pick a winner. >> manu, what do we think about mitch mcconnell's vulnerability right now in kentucky? >> he first is worried about a primary challenge. no opponent has yet emerged to take him on, but they're certainly away of that. against judd they had an internal poll at the end of last year that had him ahead at the start of the race, but only by four. but they tested a number of key attack lines and if those attack lines landed and judd were not able to respond to those effectively, his jump would jump sub

substantially. they believe they can beat her. he's certainly beatable, but republicans think not with ashley judd. >> one thing's for sure. if and when it happen, and we're sure it is, it's going to be a fun one. >> absolutely. >> we'll talk to you a little bit later in the program. thanks, guys. >> sounds good. folks, we're also following the story in south africa. nelson mandela is back at home after spending the night in the hospital. if former south african president was admitted to the hospital yesterday for what was described as routine tests. he spent some time in the hospital back in december for a lung infection and recovering from undergoing gallstone surgery. he's back home. working toward a grand compromise. there she is, the top democrat on the house appropriations committee. we'll talk about what the president needs do later. later, susan rice, 2.0.

the state department didn't work out. how about the n.i.c.? >> a congressional fight that's got nothing to do with budgets, nothing to do with partisanship or really anything to do with what's going on in d.c. at all. this is msnbc. [ male announcer ] playing in the nfl is tough. ♪ doing it with a cold, just not going to happen. ♪ vicks dayquil powerful non-drowsy 6-symptom cold & flu relief. ♪ no matter what city you're playing tomorrow. [ coughs ] [ male announcer ] you can't let a cold keep you up tonight. ♪ vicks nyquil powerful nighttime 6-symptom cold & flu relief. ♪

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washington doesn't fall backward in the weeks ahead. republicans and democrats seem to be getting along these days, but as congress kicks off its budget debate this week, all bets seem to be off. joining me now, congresswoman nina lowey. fresh off of a st. paddy's day parade. thanks so much for coming in. >> my pleasure.

>> what are the areas of compromise you think the dmitri carats will be willing to work with the republicans on regarding the budget? >> well, what's really key is senator mikulski who's the tom dem and i have been working very closely together. remember, the reason the democrats couldn't vote for the continuing resolution, it reaffirmed the sequester, which means a major cut. it only updated defense and the military construction bill to reality. and the other ten bills were left from two years ago. so if barbara mikulski works with me and the senator and we work across the aisle, i think we have a great chance of bipartisan support in the house, and then it will go to the president. >> speaking of the president, there was, of course, this big dinner last week in washington, d.c. president obama sat down with

about a dozen or so republican senators, and there are reports that out of that dinner came the president's willingness to talk specifically about reforms to medicare. how far do you think that he's going to be able to move democrats in the house spechkly on the issue of medicare? >> first of all, if we recall, it was a month or two ago that the president had speaker boehner and i think eric cantor was there, maybe kevin mccarthy, and they were this close to a big deal. >> yeah. >> so let's see what they produce. and our focus on the democratic side is jobs, getting this economy moving again. and we have to look at the whole picture. that's what's so important. remember, independent experts are saying that the continuing resolution with the sequester attached would cost us 750,000 jobs and slow down the economy. that's what we're looking at. >> according to the "washington post" today, despite there not even being a bill right now to

overhaul the tax code, the washington, d.c. are at full throttle. they're ready for an epic battle. you've been in congress for more than 20 years. have you seen anything like the lobbiying that's going on right now over potential changes to the tax code? >> let me tell you. these loopholes are keeping the lobbyists busy, whether it's oil and gas loopholes, whether it's the buffett rule which means they shouldn't pay any taxes. >> it's okay to ask that question. they don't own us anymore. >> there are loopholes we can close and protect our seniors, protect medicare, medicaid. >> but some of those loopholes are wildly popular. the mortgage interest deduction being probably the most important. how do you get around that? how do you close loopholes that

are wildly popular with constituents but also do what the president says we need. >> you can do it and we have shown you can do it. for example, there are some proposals on the table that someone who's making millions or we have more billionaires -- did you see that report -- can only deduct 28% or we can go a little higher, a little lower. you don't have to be able to deduct the whole thing. and there are other loopholes, sending money overseas, giving tax breaks. money going overseas. there are still a lot of things we can do and still protect the middle class and the seniors, many of whom most of whom depend on medicare and social security. >> so good to see you, congresswoman nita lowey. you have an open invitation here. >> craig, it's a pleasure, and i'm delighted to know you live in westchester near rockland.

i'm pleased to represent you all. >> nearly three months after newtown, what's behind all the ak activity on capitol hill over the gun debate? and this time next week, there could be a new pope. we'll go live to rome for a preview and take a look at the front-runners. you're watching msnbc. see, i figured low testosterone would decrease my sex drive... but when i started losing energy and became moody... that's when i had an honest conversation with my doctor. we discussed all the symptoms... then he gave me some blood tests. showed it was low t. that's it. it was a number -- not just me. [ male announcer ] today, men with low t have androgel 1.62% (testosterone gel). the #1 prescribed topical testosterone replacement therapy, increases testosterone when used daily. women and children should avoid contact with application sites. discontinue androgel and call your doctor if you see unexpected signs of early puberty in a child, or signs in a woman, which may include changes in body hair or a large increase in acne, possibly due to accidental exposure.

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that might have gotten him into hot water with the watchdog group that's calling him out for an ethics violation. one of the people who was not ringside, rosemary. to the political playground we go, drawing laughter from a crowd consisting of journalists and politicians, here's one of our favorite lines from the president. this one was about former secretary of state hillary clinton's replacement. president obama said, quote, john kerry is doing great so far. he's doing everything he can to ensure continuity. frankly, though, i think it's time for him to stop showing up at work in pantsuits. it's a disturbing image." but bobbie jindal got the best.

the president and i had the exact same campaign slogan years ago but unfortunately ups sued us and made us stop using it. you remember our slogan. what can brown do for you. my staff tells me you've got a lot in common. well from one indian politician to another, i want to wish you all the best in your new job the president has real talent. he took art classes for a month painting six hour as day. the teacher said he painted 50 dog paintings. this one is of his late dog barney. the president painted that. he signed his painting simply, 43. that ain't that bad. look at that, patrick murphy. you'd vote for that. off to the vatican, cardinals assemble days before they cast their vote for the next pope. a little bit later, a look

back what was being said about the man being jailed for killing martin luther king jr. this day in history. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. but don't worry, he'll find someone else. ♪ who's that lady? ♪ who's that lady? ♪ sexy lady, who's that lady? [ female announcer ] swiffer 360 dusters extender cleans high and low, with thick all around fibers that attract and lock up to two times more dust than a feather duster. swiffer gives cleaning a whole new meaning. and now swiffer dusters refills are available with the fresh scent of gain. bob will retire when he's 153, which would be fine if bob were a vampire. but he's not. ♪ he's an architect with two kids and a mortgage. luckily, he found someone who gave him a fresh perspective on his portfolio. and with some planning and effort, hopefully bob can retire at a more appropriate age.

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so help keep him strong and healthy with purina dog chow. because you're not just a family. you're a dog family. . the post office is about five months away from ending saturday delivery. now the avoid more cutback, a councilman from berkeley, california, is proposing a tax on e-mail. he thinks that a penny per gigabyte could raise billions. a federal law bans any kind of taxes on the internet right now. that law, though, expires next year. i'm craig melvin. quick sunday to you. a quick look at some of the other top stories making news. britain's queen elizabeth will reportedly sign a new commonwealth charter that guarantees gay rights and gender equality. her majesty is expected to sign that historic document tomorrow. back here, prosecutors are plans to question jodi arias tomorrow. she answered more than 150 written questions from jurors.

the 32-year-old admits to killing her boyfriend travis alexander in 2008. she says it was in self-defense. light now a team of 26 bicyclists are making their way from noewtown, connecticut, to washington, d.c. they left saturday. the team which includes parents, teachers, and a newtown police officer, will end their ride at the u.s. capitol. the sandy hook ride as it's being called is aimed at raising awareness about gun violence in this country. and the world waits for tuesday's conclaves when cardinals from all over the world pick the next pope, many of those cardinals were leading sunday masses in rome today, some praying for guidance ahead. claudio is in rome right now lr

hello, craig. it's one of the most secretive if not the most. they swear to their secrecsecre. nay are sweeping the sistine chapel where the election is taking place and the residence where they'll be sleeping overnight for bugs and recording devices. they're also jamming the signals around those two places to make sure no signals can come in and out. and, of course, in the 21st century, craig, a lot of the cardinals are tweeting. they're prevented any access from the outside world. even when they go to sleep, they can't read newspaper or watch television. they can't speak to nobody, nobody apart from each other. when they walk, if people within

the vatican city sees them, they cannot speak to them. so does the vatican not trust the cardinals? >> not really. but just remember the last year vatican was rocked by vatileaks. so maybe they trust nobody. >> there were tweets sent out. she said cardinal dolan even spoke in italian. we're speaking of preconclave buzz about the possibility of shaun o'malley of boston getting the tot spot. how much can the masses be seen as campaigning before tuesday? >> reporter: well, craig, the conclave is seen as a political campaign for the new pope. the difference is that the holy spirit is really responsible for the selection of the pope through the cardinals.

of course, the cardinals will get chance to speak out what they feel a new pope will have to tackle, the issues, and today really was their last chances during mass. so in a way, yes, this was political campaigning, and if someone came out and talked today, that was cardinal timothy dolan from new york. >> claudio lavanga. we'll talk with you later. is the republican party modernizing or are more people falling behind their war principles? let's go to the war room. patrick murphy in the house and republican provider and msnbc contributor. good to see you, sir. >> hello. patrick, let me start with you. this is the front page. i want to put it up for the audience. it talks about gun ownership being way down.

quote, the rate has dropped in cities, large and small, suburbs, rural areas, and all regions of the country. it's fallen in households with children and among those without. it has declined with households that say they are happy and for those that they are not. it is down among church-goers and those who never sit in pews as well. what's behind this? >> a couple of things. one, hunting is not as popular as it used to be. two, people don't see the need for security. right now about one-third of the households, according to that article have guns. it used to be 50% 40 years ago in the 1970s. it also make use think then why can't we get things passed? sensible gun control legislation so we can stop the violence on our streets. >> do we sense there may be a shift afoot in this country with

regard to the gun culture? >> you know, i don't know. i would like to see some more data. i would like to see the cross tabs in the polling to see who, in fact, they ask, the demographics of who they ask, where they ask. i think if you were to ask that question in the south and rural areas, it would be much, much different than in places -- like rural pennsylvania would be different than rural south. i suspect it's still a dominant staple if you will in rural life but also because of alarm systems and so forth and so on, you don't need a gun, per se, more than you did maybe five or ten or 15 years ago patrick murphy, mayor michael bloomberg has head it one of his major issues. this is the mayor on "cbs this

morning." how has he been at unseating the nra on being the main messenger? >> it was the one shot before. mayor michael bloomberg has been a game-changer when it comes to gun safety. again, he's a guy who believes in the second amendment but he's saying there's no reason why e e should have an assault weapons ban or have a gun in your home or car and assault policemen on the street. why can't we get background checks? why can't we see who's getting these guns so we can do what's necessary to keep our family safe. >> robert, has he been a platform changer? >> it's too early to tell. we need to have the conversation four, five, six years from now

to see if significant minds have changed or policy has changed. i will say with the caveat he has a soapbox. he is using it. when you take a look at what mayor bloomberg has done when it comes to smoking ban, tax regulation. >> soda ban, the headphone ban. >> you're going down the list. but i think it's a little too early to tell, but i do think he's an influential figure. >> robert is right, but he's put his money where his mouth is. you look at that race in california. he lost the primary because of the gun issue. in the suburbs of chicago he put some serious money behind it. >> you think there's a tectonics shift under way. >> he has the ability to spend and is spending. he makes is his issue. >> let's talk wayne lapierre, head of the nra. he's addressing them this week. what kind of reception will

wayne lapierre get at cpac? >> clearly he's preaching to the choir, so i suspect he'll get a standing ovation, a sustained round of applause. he'll probably say what he's said, it's an assault on second amendment rights. i believe in the right very strongly to bear arms. hour, there should be a back ground check. hour, i don't see the need for semiautomatic weapons in the household. that makes no sense to me. so what i think is wayne lapierre will spread more gasoline on the fire, if you will, in preaching to the choir. >> is that what you think happens? >> i think so. wayne lapierre said a decade ago he was for background checks. now there's a poll out that shows even in states like montana, the majority, about 78% of gun owners are for background checks but wayne lapierre -- >> why is that?

why does there seem to be such a disconnection between nra and its membership? >> because it's the lobbyist group in washington and the spokespeople. they're stopping commonsense gun safety laws going in effect. they're my parents and your parents who are saying we're for this, we don't want these kids -- we don't want 20 first graders to be mored in their seats in connecticut. >> robert, switch gears with me really quickly here. perhaps you've heard about it. the rnc's launched a listening tour. reince priebus has announced this. >> this is an effort to learn what happened. >> they know what happened. how long does the autopsy take? >> a couple of months, and here's why. the republicans were flying blindly. you know this, craig. if you take a look at the tape

around halloween, republicans were neck and neck in the polls. if you take a look at the polling data, everything suggest thad mitt romney was going to win and quite frankly was going to win fairly big, and so what the republican party needs do is reinvent itself and see how relevant it can be. >> robert trainham, thank you so much. former congress patrick murphy. thanks to both of you. good to see you in the flush. we'll return to the gun debate as well as we take a close look, a close look at gun violence in the president's hometown. we're going to talk about what's been happening in chicago. first, though, a look back to the day the man who killed mlk jr. went to jail and the discussion that people were really having about his case.

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and, in fact, there was a merrill lynch report indicating this past week the vast majority of internet stocks will not be around in five years. >> that was tom costello, then a correspondent for cnbc talking the day after the nasdaq peaked in the year 2000. within six weeks the tech index had dropped almost 2,000 points. 13 years later, the nasdaq still has not regained those losses. and it was on this day in 1969 that the man who was convicted of killing dr. martin luther king jr. found a way to escape the electric chair. james earl ray cut a deal to plead guilty. many believe he did not act alone. in june 1977 ray escaped from the tennessee prison he was being held only to be recaptured

days later. in 1978 a house committee con clulded that james earl ray did act alone when he killed dr. martin luther james. he died in 1998. susan rice, could she be up for another appointment, but this time without taking the hot seat? more ahead on that. this is msnbc. ♪ the middle of this special moment and i need to run off to the bathroom. ♪ i'm fed up with always having to put my bladder's needs ahead of my daughter. ♪ so today, i'm finally talking to my doctor about overactive bladder symptoms. [ female announcer ] know that gotta go feeling? ask your doctor about prescription toviaz. one toviaz pill a day significantly reduces sudden urges and accidents, for 24 hours. if you have certain stomach problems or glaucoma, or can not empty your bladder, you should not take toviaz. get emergency medical help right away

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the bigger tragedy though, john, is we've spent all of these months trying to figure out the origin of some talking points which were cleared at the highest level of the intelligence community, and in my opinion not enough time doing the service that we owe to our fallen colleagues who had been lost. >> that was the u.s. ambassador to the united nations susan rice with jon stewart last month. despite never being officially nominated for secretary of state she became the center of controversy following the deadly attack in benghazi. now there's a new report saying

that the u.n. ambassador could be up for a new job in washington. i want to bring back a.b. stoddard, associate editor for "the hill" and manu raju. thanks for coming up. here is the "washington post." susan rice as national security adviser. they are reporting she is, quote, far and away the person to replace thomas c. donlon when he leaves that appointment later this year. what do you think? is this going to be rice's next stop, a.b.? >> i would not be surprised if this is true, because president obama is very fond of her, believes very strongly in the job that she has done as u.n. ambassador, and i think the whole chapter with secretary of state, although there are reports john kerry was always his top choice, was really an unfortunate one for the president and people he's close to like susan rice, and it was a tough go for her. it would not surprise me if she

was being readied for this position. it's not going to require senate confirmation. she won't have to be put through the wringer on capitol hill from her republican critics, but that's not going to stop the end of the debate over whether or not the administration has been forthcoming enough on benghazi, whether or not republicans with questions and democrats as well are being given them, and that's why they are asking for a direct access to the survivors of the attack. it was a failure, craig. whether or not it was an intentional one. it was still a big failure and questions about benghazi are not going away. >>. a b., the questions, and you're alluding to the fact that senator mccain, senator graham, kelly ayotte now, they want these survivors to testify. how much of this is actually about trying to acquire new information or more information, or how much is trying to make the white house look bad? >> well, i really can't answer that question. i don't know what their motives are. i just know that for the future

safety of any ambassador like christopher stevens who died in that attack, who was fearing for his life and was making that clear through cables to the state department, the most urgent of which secretary clinton at the time never herself saw, there needs to be improvements, and that's why there was a report that was, you know, assessing all of the vulnerabilities in the system and putting forth new recommendations which secretary kerry is going to carry out. there's just got to be improvements in the system so that kind of thing doesn't happen again. whether or not senators mccain and ayotte and graham are enjoying, you know, beating the drum of this criticism is another question entirely, but these issues have to be addressed. >> manu susan rice does become the next national security adviser would she have more or less influence than john kerry? >> i'm not sure you could assess it that way. i mean, john kerry will have -- will play a key role in leading the state department. he was confirmed almost

unanimously by the senate. he carries a lot of clout within the administration, but, of course, susan rice is someone who the president has relied on, back from his first campaign up until now. this will be -- for the president they can skirt a senate confirmation fight, as a.b. noted, so putting her in that position would make sense for the president, but, you know, in terms of his -- she would certainly be part of that inner circle, the very tight inner circle that the president relies on, not, you know, not this big broader circle in which, you know, not as many people get a chance to influence a president directly. >> you know what? let's turn here from the substantive to the silly really quickly. we've got a few moments, and i know how much a.b. loves this. have you seen this peter king video? you guys both cover the hi. i want to queue up the peter king, this again, nearly 70 years old, in the ring slugging away, slugging away out on long island last night trying to help

raise some money for business we're told. a.b., what do you make of this? >> how can you not respect the fact that peter king would be willing to do this and put himself out there. he's just -- he's a very gregarious guy. he is very, very attached to his constituents and his role in helping them as a member of congress and in other ways. he's a real interesting guy. he's written many, many books. he's just a really -- he's just an outgoing guy. i thought it was pretty wild that he took on this challenge, but i think it would be hard not to be impressed that he did it and put himself through. >> also, if you take a look at the congressman, he's pretty serious, too. he didn't just get in there and dance around for a few minutes. i mean, he's throwing some punches. looks like he took a few punches, so that's the video that caught our attention this weekend. manu, i want to show you the picture that also caught our attention as well. this is george w. bush's painting of barney.

his art teacher says that the president has become very serious about painting. we were blown away because when we saw the headline we thought it was coined of a joke and when you see this painting you're like maybe george w. bush missed his calling. >> perhaps, you know. the post-presidency, you have a lot more time on your hands, i suppose. you know, it's interesting. i think that, you know, he's certainly enjoyed having this low-key life in the last few years, but, hey, if his brother runs again, brother runs in 2016, maybe he'll be back in the spotlight. >> a.b. stoddard from "the hill and manu raju, appreciate your time. coming up, the very latest on nelson mandela's condition after being admitted to the hospital on saturday and the head of the gop hating to new york city. who he is meeting and why he's meeting them and what all of that tells us about what could be next for the republican party. this is msnbc, the place for politics. [ female announcer ] let our chefs take your lettuce from drab to fab

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♪ . good sunday afternoon. i'm craig melvin. you're watching msnbc, the place for politics, and we'll start with mending fences. >> you deserve better than the same political gridlock and refusal to compromise that is too often passed for serious debate over the last few years. >> president obama goes on the charm offensive with the gop. meanwhile, republicans plan to do the same with voters in what they are calling a listening tour. still, even as a majority of americans call for stronger background checks, new gun legislation seems stalled on capitol hill. we'll talk to one political rising star hoping to change that. meanwhile at the vatican, the race to 77 is on. that's how many votes a cardinal will need to become the next leader of the world's 1 billion plus catholics. ashley judd has decided to run for the senate from the

state of kentucky. that's according to a report from "uffington post-"editorial director howard fineman, also an msnbc political analyst. basing that on several sources from kentucky. meanwhile, tennessee republican marcia blackburn saying that judd will be a serious candidate if she decides to run. >> can she win? >> now, it shows that people who have differences of opinions, if she runs, she will run hard and knowing that family they are very tenacious and spirited. >> there are reports that president obama is set to name thomas perez as his new labor secretary. perez is currently head of the civil rights division at the justice department. he would replace hilda solis and new york city's kristine quinn has finally made it official. in a video on her website she launched her bid to become new york's first female mayor.

she's currently speaker of the city council, also a close ally of mayor michael bloomberg as well. president obama is set to meet with democrats and republicans on capitol hill later this week. last week the president and congressional republicans had dinner together, but the charm offensive may not be enough to win gop support on the budget. republicans could still go after obama's main legacy, obama care. here's what congressman paul ryan had to say on "fox news sunday." >> are you saying as part of your budget you would assume the repeal of obama care? >> yes. >> well, that's not going to happen. >> well, we believe it should, that's the point. this is what budgeting is all about, chris the it's about making tough choices to fix our country's problems. >> let's get more details now from nbc's peter alexander at the white house. peter, are congressional republicans open to the president's charm offensive? i would imagine there has to be some skepticism.

>> reporter: there certainly is skepticism. this morning we heard from the house majority whip kevin mccarthy who says the question remains whether this is genuine or if it's about politics but also this morning on "meet the press" we heard from the republican from oklahoma tom coburn who believes the president is tremendously sincere, that he really wants to solve problems right now, and he's looking together to effect that change, but he also conceded, coone did, that there are scabs and sores that go way back and they will take some time to heal. this is going to be a delicate process going forward, but i think much like the forecast here in washington these days, it looks a little bit sunnier and brighter now than it did just a few days ago. the president will be heading to the hill this week as you guys have been reporting as well, not once but a total of four times over three days, separate trips to visit with both house and senate democrats and republicans, and this white house is convinced now with a little more breathing room as one top administration official described it to me without the

critical fiscal deadlines in front of them. they might be able to affect some of that change. >> peter alexander from the white house for us on this sunday afternoon, thanks, peter. president obama is not the only one on a charm offensive. rnc chairman reince priebus is on a listening tour that's bringing him to the big apple. he'll be meeting in new york with african-american voters tomorrow to talk about issues important to the black community. how symbolic is this gesture? how full will this gesture be? joining me now ed cox, chairman of the new york republican party who will be with priebus tomorrow. good to have you. >> good to be here, craig. >> thanks for coming in. >> a pleasure. >> mr. priebus was in iowa a few days ago, a crucial swing state that's already gearing up for 2014 mid-terms, we should note. why come to new york? a solidly blue state, to talk to black voters, 93% of whom back president obama during the last election. >> well, this is connecting with at the communities of all sorts all across the country. he's been in atlanta and

california which isn't exactly a red state, as you know, craig. seattle and washington, another blue state, denver, in iowa, and now he's coming here to new york, and basically he is talking with people of all, whether, asian or african-american or subcontinent indian and here in new york, of course, we have a lot of ethnic groups, and we've been working with them for some time, not just african-american but also asian groups. we had 500 chinese down in chinatown, largest republican rally ever in the history of chinatown just a week ago, but mr. bernard, pastor bernard of the christian cultural center is a republican. that's a -- a church of 30,000-plus members. he's a real force in new york. he's on the mayor's economic development corporation. he's part of the chancellor of schools advisory committee, and

he has put together a group that the chairman of the republican party nationally is going to come here and talk with them about the issues that concern them. >> priebus, he's come out against the new effort by karl rove to essentially try to curb who runs for office. karl rove's attempting to get electable candidates on the ballot. where do you stand on that issue? >> well, with respect to the ballot, i mean, what karl rove is talking about. there were efforts by democrats to get the republican that they wanted to run again on the ballot, and harry reid did that. >> both parties have done that. >> well, actually the democrats -- we haven't -- they have done that in the last two elections and that's todd akin got on the ballot so what karl rove is saying, i don't think there's any disagreement, if they are going to do that, we've got to counter some way and make sure we get the candidate that should be on the ballot that really represents the republican party. >> you don't see it as an

attempt to get moderate centrist candidates on the ballot. >> no, look, this is just to get a good republican on the ballot who can win, and that's part of what the listening tour is about. we're talking about economic development. we're talking about equal opportunity. you're getting into school issues and on school issues we're on the cutting edge particularly here in new york. the republicans are the leaders in independent schools and charter schools and pastor bernard is starting his own charter school. >> it sounds as if thg this is going to become a hallmark of the new gop, no? >> education, equal opportunity. education is a great equalizer. it's important that our schools be effective, especially in the inner cities. our schools are not, and the democrats want the status quo. we're the progressive party with respect to school reform in new york city and new york state. >> let me talk to you really quickly about your future. of course, you ran against hillary clinton back in the senate. >> i was in the primary. didn't run against her, primary process. >> but you were -- there's been

some talk that you might be interested in the governor's mansion. >> craig, i'm chairman of the party here, and the chairman -- my job is to get good candidates to run, not for myself to run. >> you're not runing? >> i'm not running. >> all right. well, we'll leave it there. ed cox thanks so much. >> pleasure to be with you, craig. almost no city in the country is knorr more synonymous with gun violence than chicago right now. president obama chose to make a national example out of the death of a 15-year-old girl named hadiya pendleton when he went back home to chicago to speak to a group of schoolchildren last month. hours later the sister of a student in that giroud crowd that heard the president speak that day was also gunned down. how did this deadly wave be stopped in the windy city? robin kelly will most likely represent the chicago area in congress and is running in a special race for the seat recently held by jesse jackson jr. it's good to see you. >> thank you so much.

>> what can realistically be done to curb violence right now in chicago? >> well, i think we do need to pass the reasonable gun control laws but also it's going to take mentoring. it's going to take jobs. it's going to take access to mental health facilities. >> in an unprecedented move new york city mayor michael bloomberg, $2 million he poured into that race supporting you because of your position on guns. what kind of relationship do you expect to have with mayor bloomberg going forward? >> well, actually we have no relationship at this point, and i don't know what our relationship will be going forward. he poured that money in on behalf of the families that already lost children and on behalf of people that i believe in reasonable gun safety laws. >> you don't believe he supported you? >> he believes in the issue. whoever goes to washington, when they take that vote, no matter

what district you represent, will represent the whole united states. >> mayor bloomberg this morning said he's actually never met you. >> correct. >> he just wrote a check. >> he didn't write a check for me. he paid for some tv ads. >> which benefited you -- which benefited you greatly. you have to concede that point. >> it highlighted the race definitely and who was nraa-rated and f-rated. >> what sort of gun agenda will you be taking to you on capitol hill if and when you win that race? >> i would have my message of reasonable gun control laws. that's the message i will take and definitely be an ally of the president as he tries to get these laws passed. >> your seat is the one vacated by former congressman jesse jackson jr. who was indicted for misusing hundreds of thousands of campaign dollars. meanwhile, your opponent on april 9th is an ex-con named peter mckinley. take a look at this campaign

video. >> my name is paul mckinley. i'm running for the second congressional district. i'm an ex-offender, trying to prevent the next offender. i was tried, convicted and sent to prison for robbery. >> that's paul mckinley there. how do you overcome the stigma of dirty chicago style politics associated with the seat you're running for? >> you know, there's a lot of good people in office, and there's been issues all over the united states with different politicians. i can only talk about robin kelly and how i've led my political life or my government life, and that's what i'm running on, that i'm a woman of character and a bomb integrity. >> before i let you go, i want to ask you about the violence on the streets of chicago. for folks who haven't been to chicago, for folks who don't fully understand what's going on there, in the simplest of terms explain to people watching right now what has happened in chicago with regards to gun violence and why it's happened. >> well, particularly in the last five years we, you know,

are losing a generation of young people in violence and too many of the neighborhoods, and it's a lot of younger people dying and being killed by other younger folks, so i think it's just a consequence of not enough mentoring, no jobs and, again, like i said before, access to mental health facilities. i think it's a multi-facetted problem, and there's going to be multi-facetted solutions need. >> robin kelly running for kelly in illinois, thanks so much. appreciate it. >> thank you. we continue to watch developing news from south africa. nelson mandela is out of hospital. he is back home today. the former president spent the night under observation after being admitted yesterday for what was described as, quote, routine tests. back in december the 94-year-old mandela spent nearly three weeks in the hospital. then he was being treated for a lung infection, and he also underwent gal stone surgery. coming up, the fight facing

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as the vatican prepares for the conclave of cardinals to pick a new pope, new allegations priest abuse victims has come up with their own choices of pope. the group is called survivors network of those abused by snap has picked their own choices.

peter eisley with s.n.a.p. is here with me in the studio. you call these the least worst. why these three? >> if you had to deal with management team in the cover-up of the crimes, this is not really the management team to pick, these cardinals, but when you look at them, at least some of them have shown something over time that they might be able to be open to changes that have to be taking play. i should say in particular in ireland and in austria that it's really the victim survivors, and i'm a victim myself of these crimes, as are the 12,000 members of our organization. they are the ones that have really been pushing and prodding these bishops like martin and sharonbe sharnberg. >> what should the church be doing that it hasn't done with

regard to folks like yourself and the thousands of victims of sexual abuse in the catholic church? >> forget about us for a moment, forget about those of us who have already been raped and assaulted as children, next rape and assault, that's what they have got to do something about, and here's what they need to do. it's extremely simple. they need to declare -- this new pope, whoever he is, before the sun sets on that famous roman sky, his first day in office, needs to declare zero tolerance for the sexual abuse of children in the catholic church. he needs to say any priest is that has assaulted a child is going to be removed from the priesthood. that's not a rule in the catholic church. that's why the priesthood around the world, unfortunately, is the most dangerous occupation for children in the world. not that most priests assault children. >> yeah. >> but if they do assault children around the word, they remain in that occupation, and would i challenge you. tell me this. what other occupation working with children and families and civil society that you can rape and sacksially assault a child and remain employed with

families and children in. >> you've picked a list of dirty dozen candidates judged by your group as worst choices for pope. what, if your opinion, makes this group the worst? >> this whole group is being led by cardinal sedano, the current head of the college of cardinals. he himself has been involved in the cover-up of the crimes and one has been involved in the notorious father murphy case in milwaukee where 200 deaf children were assaulted by father murphy, and he was involved in covering up that crime. that's who is leading them as a college cardinals. that's the problem. each one of these bish on, especially these 12, have either been directly involved in covering up child sex assaults, or they have demonstrated attitudes which today are unacceptable about the sexual assault of children. >> new york's archbishop cardinal timothy dolan's name has been floated around as a contender for pope and your group said in a statement, dolan

has been particular adept at evading responsibility for his wrongdoing in clergy sex cases having moved twice sin the scandal started, gaining international attention more than a decade ago. again, that's a statement coming from s.n.a.p., on the so-called dirty dozen list that i've thrown on the screen there and so is the archbishop of boston, sean o'malley. how would you react if either one of them became the next pope. >> let's talk about dolan first. imagine electing a pope that right now has in u.s. federal court, as he does in milwaukee, a sealed deposition about the sexual abuse cases of hundreds of children in the milwaukee archdiocese. that's in federal court right now. not only that archbishop dolan in documents that have come out in this court case himself paid off pedophile priests to quietly leave the priesthood. he gave them a sink bonus to sign the papers to get him out of the priesthood. >> again, this is according to -- >> court documents. >> in milwaukee.

>> to leave the priesthood and quietly and secretly settle into communities which they have done. some of them are now in new occupations working with children and families, and when dolan was caught doing this in 2007, he flatly denied it, so imagine a pope that you're going to elect who has done these things. >> we're going to have to liter it there. the group survivors network of those abused by priests. thank you, sir. appreciate your time today. >> thanks. jeb bush and marco rubio, in the room in the 2016 presidential race for the two sons from florida and if not, which one will run. we'll look at that with our brain trust and new indications ashley judd is ready to declare his candidacy this spring and take on one of the more powerful republicans in congress. you are watching msnbc. lower cholesterol? and it tastes good? sure does! ♪ wow. [ buzz ] delicious, right? yeah. it's the honey, it makes it taste so... ♪ well, would you look at the time...

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>> that's justin timberlake on "saturday night live" mocking venezuelan president hugo chavez's funeral. sir elton, famously performed "candle in the wind" in honor of the late princess di. if you did not catch, it head on over to hulu. it's pretty funny that's peter king getting greased up and prepped for his fight. the 68-year-old republican lawmaker fought a two-round exhibition match against his opponent irish josh foley who is less than half his age. we're learning that congressman king has bn training for nine years. we also -- we're also told that the match was a draw. speaking of extracurricular "sports illustrated" has named president obama as one of the most powerful people in sports,

that's right. he comes in on the list at 44. the list was 50. that's ahead of michael jordan and ahead of dallas mavericks owner mark cuban citing the president's love of basketball, meticulously filling out ncaa and his role initiating a national conversation about football-related injuries, and in case you haven't noticed, there's a coincidence there, president obama 44th on the list, also, of course, the 44th president. the eternal city on pins and needles. we go live to get a preview of the conclave to choose the next pope, and can he bat his lashes all the way to capitol hill? we'll ask our brain trust if the president's new strategy that some are calling a charm offensive will work across the & you're watching msnbc, the place for politics. both tylenol and bayer advanced aspirin are proven to be effective pain relievers.

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right now a team of 26 bicyclists from newtown, connecticut are making their way to washington, d.c. the cyclists are riding 400 miles in four days from newtown to the u.s. capital. that team includes parents, teachers and a newtown police officer as well. the sandy hook ride as it's been called is meant to raise awareness about gun violence. i'm craig melvin. good sunday to you. here's a quick look at some of the other top stories making news. britain's queen elizabeth is expected to sign a new charter guaranteeing gay rights and gender equality. her majesty is expected to sign that historic document tomorrow. jodi arias will be on the stand next week. the arizona woman's trial is set to resume wednesday, and prosecutors say they want to ask her more questions. last week arias answered more than 150 questions from jurors. the 32-year-old admits she killed her boyfriend travis alexander in 2008 but says it

was sieve defense. tiger woods set a personal best this weekend. he made 24 birdies in just three rounds. right now woods has a five-stroke lead over phil mickelson at the world golf championships in florida. ahead of tuesday's conclave meeting of 115 cardinals to pick a new pope, the vatican is taking all precautions to keep the voting process secret, but it's certainly not stopping speculation on the outside about who the next pope could be. nbc's claudio lovongo is in rome for us this afternoon or this evening. claudio, how likely is it that the next pope will be a person from the developing world where most catholics are from? >> reporter: well, craig, there's been a lot of speculation that the next pope will come from outside of europe. well, at least a few days ago two of the main contenders seem to have been cardinal turkson of

ghana, picked to become the first black card and a young charismatic cardinal from the philippines. now the attention seems to be switching to south america where in argentina we've got two contenders now. one is leonardo sand ri and the biggest of the contenders here is the cardinal from sao paulo, the archdiocese of sao paulo. that's odilo scherer. if any of these people the cardinals are mentioning, will get the job, well, that will be, craig, a historic choice. >> speaking of history, what can history tell us about how long the conclave is going to take? >> well, let's just take a look back at 2005, of course, the last conclave. cardinal joseph ratzinger became pope benedict xvi after four ballots and that took only two days. now, this is unlikely to happen this time because there are divisions among the cardinals and it may take a few days longer.

now, the longest conclave in the last 100 years was five days. will this one go over that and become a record-breaker? well, craig, we'll have to wait for the white smoke and see. >> well, we know that they have been here for a number of days now. we saw some pictures from mass this morning. what else have they been doing over the past few days. have there been alliances built, campaigning, so to speak? >> well, what we know is that there are two factions coming out of college of cardinals. one is the reformers who want to change the things as they are run here now from within the vatican city as the roman courier, especially the italian cardinals, are blamed to have concentrated too much power with themselves, and the other ones, sorry, of course, the ones that want to change it. the other ones, the faction is the old guards. just want to keep things as they are so we'll see who comes out victorious, greg. >> claudio lavanga for us tonight from rome. claudio, thank you so much. >> thank you. turning back here to

politics. the white house's charm offensive is set to continue this week. will head to capitol hill in an attempt to solve the budget standoff. i want to bring the brain trust in, dana millbank, "washington post" columnist and perry bacon jr. we should note here, political editor at the grio and amy homes is back an anchor at "the blaze" and also a speech writer for senate majority leader bill frist. good to see you. >> dana milbank the only not smiling at the beginning. dana, we begin with you. last week the president had dinner with a dozen or so senators and is heading to congress this week. how will this attempt to -- how will it work for the president? >> well, it's already worked for the president in the sense that we're all talking about how charming he's being and how he's reaching out to the hill, even though i don't think anything substantive has really changed

here as perry has noted. >> nothing? you don't think anything has changed substantively? >> well, not yet. we don't have anything on the table that's -- that's suggesting there's some grand deal possible. it's going to have to happen eventually. it's the only way out of this whole mess. maybe we have a little more leeway now. there seems to have been some good faith gestures but we still don't have anything on the table and taking some senators to dinner, taking paul ryan over to the white house for lunch isn't really going to get us there. >> perry, you write in the grio, quote, there is room for negotiation here, and obama appears ready to explore it. what was the impetus here? i mean, what do you think happened? did someone finally get in the president's ear and say, you know what, if you really want them to work with you and want them to like you, in d.c. you've got to take them out for a nice dinner? >> i don't think the white house thought the sequester would go

into effect, that the republicans would buckle down and accept a compromise and not let all the furloughs happen. dana, i agree in general, president obama has had people come over to the white house for all kinds of things and the republicans don't like him very much and he won't charm them in general. the 12 senators he had dinner with, lindsey graham, john mccain, bob corker and a few others want to reach the deal on a bipartisan big-budget deal and what he's trying to do is work around mcconnell, that we'll discuss later, can't work with president obama right now because he has a primary to work about. john boehner can't work with him because the house republicans don't like him. if the president can find 15 republicans to work with and craft a deal it can probably be passed in the house and senate and become law, and that's the main goal. gun control, immigration, these meetings will not help, but that one issue i think it will help a lot. >> amy, one of the things -- one of the things that seems to have come out of this meeting if you were to believe peggy noonan's

account with the two senators not named in the "wall street journal" piece that she wrote, at one point three of the senators became emotional. like the picture, again, the picture that's painted, at least is that folks are sitting around a table who just kind of rediscovered each other and some were moved to tears. >> the jefferson hotel seems to have quite an impact on politicians that hasn't seen this much action since the world learned that dick morris likes to play podiatrist, but in terms of, you know, the impact and power, the president of the united states still has a lot of glamour, and senators are certainly -- they can be susceptible rather to that glamour in terms of how this is going to affect policy-making, moving forward, we learned that the topics discuss were so broad ranging it's hard to imagine that these talks did get the ball moving in one particular direction, and as we know john boehner said trying to negotiate

with president obama is like trying to nail jell-o to a wall so i think they will wait until they see the details. >> you mentioned nothing of substance coming out of that dinner. one. things that struck me was apparently the president talked about medicare, and the president said that this group of republican senators, listen, i know the deal with medicare. you pay $1. people think it's their money and you get $3-3-out. to hear the president say that to a group of republicans, that's a little jarring, no? >> there are some noises being made here. all i was saying is there's nothing of substance on table yet. this may be a prerequisite to getting it there, and if they were emotional, maybe snuck in a group hug or something, that would certainly get things going in a better direction and apparently the president picked up the tab for this, so all kinds of good signs there. yes, the president's made some -- he's made some noises before on medicare. we haven't heard quite as many

noises from the republicans on taxes. this will all have to come eventually. i wouldn't say we're going to be celebrating some big deal in the coming days, but my office is just a block from the jefferson so i'm ready to go celebrate. >> craig, if i can add one more thing. you asked perry what was the president's motivation. i have a number for you, it's 46, and that's where his approvals are right now by gallup, 46% after the sequester campaign. i think he was trying to change the subject, and, you know, frankly americans like to see our politicians getting along. >> what say you to that, perry? do you think it was all poll numbers? >> i guess i disagree. i don't think he's as obsessed with the numbers because he already won re-election. he does want to get this deficit reduction agreement done, and i think the people in the room, particularly the dinner, the people you have to work through. john boehner on some level doesn't matter when we talk about these kinds of agreements because if they have an agreement in the senate, john boehner will agree to have a vote on it in the house and then can you pass a bill without john boehner sort of walking it

through. john boehner has already said out loud i'm not negotiating with the president. obama has to negotiate with other people. not john boehner, probably paul ryan in the house and the senators, and i think that's where you get a deal done. >> i think mitch mcconnell would learn that john boehner takes marching orders from the senate. >> we've seen three bills pass in the last few months where the majority of the house -- majority of house republicans have not voted for the violence against women act. >> sure, but that was legislation that john boehner knew would hurt the republican party if there was a long drawn out debate, even though you could have a principled debate about why you might want to vote against that, john boehner knew that was a political loser so he wanted to get off the table. had nothing to do with the united states senate telling john boehner what to bring to his members for a vote. >> i think it did, and i think the case i'm making is if you had 70 senators agree to a broader deficit reduction dole that included tax increases and reduced medicare spending and social security spending, i think there's a case where john

wehner might bring to the floor and say vote your will on this on the fiscal cliff which included tax increases as well. that's the case the president and the white house made. >> no, no, no, can you not jump in. >> i was going to say we could resolve this over a dinner at the jefferson. >> i'm keeping my shoes on. >> let's take a quick break here so we can pay a few bills. brain trust, don't go anywhere. 41 and 43, could the bush family get a 45 as well? this is msnbc. but in very different ways. and pampers gives all of them our driest, best fitting diaper, ♪ pampers cruisers with 3-way fit. not only with up to 12 hours of protection, they adapt at the waist, legs and bottom, for all the freedom to move their way in pampers best diaper. it's time to play.

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big time taste should fit in a little time cup. new single serve cafe collections from maxwell house now available for use in the keurig k-cup brewer. always good to the last drop. with simple, real ingredients, like roasted peanuts, creamy peanut butter, and a rich dark-chocolate flavor, plus 10 grams of protein, so it's energy straight from nature to you. nature valley protein bars. brain trust is back. dana milbank and perry bacon and amy holmes. amy, we'll start with you. jeb bush, every network today, pretty sure it's a record, his all seven, the five major, telemundo and univision as well. was this about the new book or is this all about 2016? >> incredible.

exceeded the full ginsberg which was the previous record during the monica lewinsky scandal and going bilingual along the way. sure. he's not made any real secret that he is thinking about running for president. i'm not sure the headlines he's been generating are exactly what he wants because it sounds like he's made this back flip on immigration, although now he's trying to walk away from a back flip, and that becomes a rather awkward gymnastics routine for him, but he's definitely getting his marker out there and letting other would-be candidates know that he wants to be in there and that may crowd some of them out of the field. >> what do you think, amy holmes? do you think -- no, what do you think it was about? >> of course he wants to be on the national stage and wants to sell some books. we know back in 2012 he said no, he wouldn't run, now he's saying he's not going to decide until 2016 is closer in view, but in terms of the success of this rollout, it seems that jeb bush has staked out a position on citizenship that pleases no one.

it doesn't please folks on the right and it doesn't please folks on the left so i think he'll need to fine tune. >> he flip-flopped at the right time. >> and in the wrong direction. >> perry, this is -- this is jeb bush from "meet the press" this morning talking about republicans, offering some alternatives to some demographic groups that turned out for president obama. take a listen. >> if you look at asian americans, for example, in general they have higher income than the median of our country, more intact families, more entrepreneurship, higher levels of education, and they supported president obama 75-24. we need to be offering a compelling alternative. >> so we did some looking around and did some reading as well. jeb bush has spent a fair amount of time talking about asian americans specifically. that particular group. this morning he talked about that group on several different shows and over the past week he's done the same thing. what's with the new courtship? >> it makes a lot of sense if

you think about it. the republican view, you can't win african-american votes because they are democratic and latino vote lost for now with the self-deportation and imgrass policies so for them the mystery is in part, obama gained among the asian vote in a big way in 2012, and it's really not clear, why and jeb bush is right. that should be a population the republicans can make some gains in with the right policies, with the right message, with the right candidate. is that jeb bush? i'm not sure if it's really jeb bush is the right candidate. in politics in general you have to like, you know, act when it's your time to act, and in 2008 president obama ran for president. it seemed too early but it seemed like the right time. i wonder if jeb bush's time was 2012 and now marco rubio is jeb bush and a little more charismatic and that kind of thing. i wonder if jeb bush missed his moment. >> wonder if time passed him by. >> howard fineman was on the broadcast here about an hour ago talking about some reporting that he's done over the weekend

with regards to ashley judd. he's saying that his sources have indicated to him that she's in and is going to do it and run against senate minority leader mitch mcconnell in the bluegrass state, will do it down in kentucky. amy holmes, if that happens, how steep of a climb is it going to be for ashley judd? >> i think it will be fairly tough, although mitch mcconnell's approvals in his state are not that great so she might be seeing her opening as perry was talking about, take your moment and take it now, but as republicans have been fleshing out, has a fairly left wing record so for a red state like kentucky it's hard to know what her appeal will be, and oftentimes we often see sort of a mixed reaction to celebrities being involved in politics. get a lot of attention, a lot of headlines, a lot of ink, but at end of the day voters -- >> look at al franken. al franken was able to real turn the corner on that thing. >> but he was, but it's not often that you see that happen. >> dana, mitch mcconnell has roughly $7 million in the war chest down there, four counties

in kentucky turned out to support president obama during the last election. if she is going to win in kentucky, how would she go about doing it? >> well, first of all, the judd candidacy is a great gift to journalism so she should be happy. >> believe you me, we've been on it all day. >> we should be encouraging her, no matter what. >> and all year, we really get a gift like this. >> it's a terrific thing to have. it's going to be very difficult for her, i think. the last time around it was said that mcconnell was vulnerable, and it turned out he wasn't terribly much, so a lot will depend on how things are looking next year, but i think this is one of those things that has a lot more appeal to those of us who talk about it than your average voter there in kentucky. now, mcconnell is no brilliant campaigner, and if indeed -- it's kind of awful to sit through his speeches on the senate floor, but he does know kentucky politics pretty well. >> stick around, brain trust.

when we come back we'll talk about who is going to be coming out as the shining gop savior after cpac and we'll talk about dana milbank's of a tar on twitter. to target 5 major causes of uneven skin tone and help restore even color. olay professional even skin tone. got you ! you cannot escape the rebel forces ! ahhh. got you ! got ya ! gotcha ! got ya. that's all you got, brother ? take that.

all right. the conservative political action committee cpac meets this coming week in washington. ted cruz, marco rubio, rand paul, sarah palin, mitt romney and others will be there. a number of others won't be there. what will be the headline in the sunday paper a week from now from cpac? what will be the comore sell of news coming out of cpac? dana i'll start with you. >> i think it will be that tud cruz has accused obama of being an agent of north korea. >> what? >> or something very much like that. the idea that -- to be the standout at cpac you have to get ever crazier than they were previously so he'll have to go all out this time and i think ted cruz is up to the task. >> he'll have to out-put the nuts. >> i think he can do it.

>> what's your headline, amy holmes? >> i would say that this is going to be all about rand paul, that the college kids in their dorm rooms, the libertarians that john mccain disliked, savior 2.0, that the crown of thorns will be transferred from marco rubio to rand paul. >> you mentioned the rand paul savior. >> do a mockup. >> marco rubio, and windsurf of the things that the media doesn't report as it should is that most of the attendees at cpac are college-aged, you know, in their mid-20s. the folks on stage are twice as old as the folks in the audience and the audience we've known from past cpacs, they love the pauls and love that family. >> are you implying that they are all drunk and/or high. >> i wasn't talking about substance use. >> perry bacon jr., what's your headline, good sir? >> i said the republicans divided on the vision for the future. less funny than those guys ahead

lines but i think true. if i were a marco rubio or someone speaking at this convention and the candidates often do this is find a way to subtly contrast yourself with rand paul. rand paul gave a very eloquent thing but most republicans supports the drone program. lots of republicans aren't as anti-war as rand paul, is and i think you'll hear some indications of people who are more conservative on issues than him trying to draw a contrast knowing that the media is going to be looking for who is for rand paul and who is against him because rand paul is the s going to be the figure that defines next weekend. how do i get a message to contrast with that. >> craig, i just think that perry and i agree that next weekend will be all about rand. >> that's the only thing you guys have agreed on. i want to put your headline back up there, perry, perry always takes the assignment so seriously. that's one thing i enjoy about him. republicans divided on vision for party's future. that's the head line. we'll get a better picture of

you, perry, because you don't need to look at serious as you do in the headline. one more thing, dana milbank's of a tar on twitter, you still have that up, don't you, good stir. >> the high water mark in my career when olbermann was doing "countdown" and the vice president shot someone but i'm pleased to see that amy homes is wearing blaze orange. >> and the producer said you looked like an orange smurf in that one. >> that's a good spot to end it, brain trust. dana milbank, perry bacon jr. and amy holmes from "the blaze." that's our show next weekend. catch me at 2:00 eastern on saturday and 3:00 eastern on sunday. until then, keep it right here throughout the night for the latest news updates. meanwhile, have yourselves a fantastic sunday evening.

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