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all right. so at the top of the show we asked you why you are awake and producer john tower hasgot? >> jerry writes i love the show but have to say your character 6:00 of martin is wrong. i own a martin and they are lovely creatures. >> i agree with you. but benito lost the tip of his finger. thanks for watching, everybody. ""morning joe" coming your way right now. ♪ saturday saturday saturday >> drew barrymoore ininducted in 2011. john goodman hosted 11 consecutive years and, of course, chevy. >> i would like to order one roll and just send the bill to me, mr. steve martin.

>> jimmy, what a surprise! >> steve, i never see you any more. >> i know. it's a shame! >> no, it's on purpose. >> oh, my god. i just realized i'm standing next to the three amigos! would there be any chance i could get you guys to do the salute? >> no. >> i don't do that any more. >> the three amigos! >> "snl" upstairs here in our building. good morning. it's monday, march 11th. bus on the set here this morning, msnbc contributor mike barnicle and fresh off spring training and mark halpern and michael steele and chairman of deutsche inc., donny deutch is with us. the director and president and ceo of the woodrow wilson international center for

scholars, jane harman. donny, a big show saturday night. some shows just feel big. >> i was watching and it was unfolding. i was like, whoa, where is this coming from? where was the holiday? i think justin timberlake is becoming this generation "snl" guy. the guy such a monster talent. you saw i think probably the greatest mail entertale entertar generation. >> justin timberlake? and great to see the old guys back. >> what do you mean the old guys? >> the original guys i'm saying. >> halpern, did you see the show on saturday night? >> i time shifted it. i agree, justin timberlake such incredible energy to it and you wonder why we can't have that level of performance every week upstairs, right? >> oh, my!

>> not everybody is timberlake, i guess. we got some pretty serious news off the top. in afghanistan, things not getting easier for the u.s. relationship there after the country's president hamid karzai accused the american government of colluding the taliban. speaking early yesterday president karzai said a pair of taliban bombings were, quote, in service of america suggesting the violence was aimed at convincing the afghan people that international forces were needed beyond that 2014 deadline for draw. the comments coincided with defense secretary chuck hagel's first trip to aelfghanistan sin he was confirmed for the job. he confirmed it yesterday in kabul. >> the united states was unilaterally working with the taliban in trying to negotiate

anything. the fact is any prospect for peace or political settlements, that has to be led by the afghans. i've always believed that it is wise for nations to engage, to reach out. that doesn't mean you are prepared to negotiate. it may never get to that point. but i think it's far preferable than war. >> msnbc mike tiabi is joining us. he's in afghanistan. a joint news conference yesterday between hagel and karzai was canceled yesterday. where do we stand this morning? >> surprising a war of words this late stage. this isn't spring training.

this is late fourth quarter and we have this escalating war of words. has led to the cancellation of the joint press conference at the end of such a visit. look at a couple of things that happened and some that didn't happen during the week while secretary hagel was here visiting afghanistan as secretary. on saturday supposed to be an official handover ceremony. it would be in karzai's cap. it didn't happen. because of a last-minute dispute over who would have the final say, the u.s. or the afghanis on which prisoners were considered high value prisoners or high risk pri risk prisoners. a demand by karzai last month that u.s. and special forces withdrawal from a kabul suburb. he gave a two-week deadline. while the deadline is now passed. the special forces are still here. that didn't happen. think of what did happen. reported over the weekend those

two terrible suicide bombing attacks. one in kabul within hearing distance of hagel was having meetings and between the two of those explosions 18 dead including eight children. then sunday morning karzai goes on national television here loaded for bear apparently and makes his accusation the u.s. is acting in concert with the taliban against afghanistan's interests. all of that said, we went to a press briefing this morning by the isaf command and saying knowing of giving 100% control for afghanistan security to the afghanis is on schedule and will happen this spring. anybody who watched this weekend knows that is weeks away. this is afghanistan in the near spring of 2013. >> all this almost 12 years into this war now. this is where we still are. >> 12 years and -- >> mike, thanks so much. jane harmon, you were on the house intelligence committee for

several years. let me read you a quote in the papers today from the general who took over the international commander just a few weeks ago. the general said yesterday we have fought too hard over the past 12 years and we have shed too much blood the past 212 years and we have done too much to help the afghan security forces grow over the past 12 years to ever think that violence or instability would be to our advantage. what is going on with hamid karzai? >> well, he is a different fellow. i think more of the 66,000 troops we still have there and the almost 5,000 who have died there. the enormous amount of resources we have spent there. i do think the two precipitating event were the bagram hazardond. be that as it may, i think what we are doing is trying to make sure that our withdrawal protects our troops and the equipment we are trying to get

out of that country. i do think it will happen this spring. karzai has to want civility in his country more than we want it and i applaud our military for all of the efforts they have made over 12 very, very long years in the longest war of our history. i want to add one other thing. saturday night i was at the gridiron dinner with the president and some republicans and democrats. my host was msnbc's one and only young and fabulous andrea mitchell. >> she is young and fabulous. i second both of those. michael steele, what does this tell you about where we are with afghanistan? what does it tell you about what happens at the end of next year in 2014? >> we are nowhere. what is the advance here? i mean, you know? congresswoman rightly notes we are dealing with somebody who is ma curial. we have been holding this guy's hand and walking through this

process with him. there is back channel and front channel observations how this would unfold. everybody knows the united states wants to get out. the president has set the deadline to do that. we want to turn over assess much control as possible but want stability in the end. why is all of this? i think the question that a lot of folks are asking what is the objective that karzai would have to have this kind of display this weekend that would cause these kind of frictions as this process unfolds? jane, would you have any idea there? >> my speculation -- by the way, michael and i practiced a lot together centuries ago and shows how old friendships are wonderful and mike barnicle and i go back a long ways. yeah, my speculation is that karzai knows we really are leaving and wants to have someone to blame if the country tanks as we go. it's going to be our fault. and i think he is making it harder for himself. he has had a lot of years to get

the training wheels off. we did this in iraq. it was the right thing to do to leave, to end the war there. and it is a shaky beginning but these countries have to build their own futures. that is the whole point and we have tried our hardest to help train and support that country in a very difficult transition and if i were mr. karzai, i would say in public in the -- in the public area, i would say, thank you so much to isaf and a coalition that has made the big sacrifices for the people of afghanistan. >> can you imagine you're a family that has made the ultimate sacrifice and you lost one of the 5,000, a son, daughter, a brother, a daughter, a father, you're watching karzai this weekend what you must be thinking? >> you're going through the television set at that point. all that loss of life and treasure for what? to have this guy sort of throw it back in your face as our troops are doing with their need to do to keep it clean getting out and he should be doing everything possible to make that

happen. >> beyond karzai, congresswoman harman, what kind of country will we leave? only a year and a half left if you believe that 2014 deadline. will that country be any different than when we got there in 2001? >> that is a great question. it's a tribal society. there are sophisticated pockets in the country. i think a lot depends on what happens in paeckkistan and not t in afghanistan. hopefully we can build relationships there. it's difficult but pakistan is hopefully to have a new democratic transition to new leadership and the military has already transitioned. i'm not saying this is going to be easy but if we are able to create stability there and stop the border incursions, i think afghanistan will have a better chance but corruption in the karzai administration opinion an election in afghanistan in 2014. the last one was stolen.

i think he would have won in the end, but there were stories that would make even chicago cringe about ghost ballots, et cetera. this time maybe other candidates will be able to run and there could be a more competent regime. i say this thinking about what is happening in egypt and how elections don't make democracies yet but i think the afghans have to bet on their country. they can't have someone else save it for them. >> mark, that is the frustrating and really the sad part of a lot of this is when you think about the men and women who died in the united states in afghanistan is that our ability to shape that country perhaps is not what we thought it was going to be. >> well, there are those of who have been skeptical about this for a very long time. history would have been different when michael steele as chairman of his party spoke out in skepticism of the war people in his party had followed him. some of the people who thought about running for president in 2012 including jon huntsman who

did run expressed conceskeptici. amazing after vietnam and the history of that country we tried to do so many of these things and leave the country, at best, in a very unstable situation with the taliban very strong and with ally in karzai who has been anything but in these latest comments are just the latest of things he has done that make him not a worthy partner. >> will say it again. one of the latest casualties in afghanistan, the united states marine, killed a few weeks ago raising the level of casualtied killed in action to 2,169. he was 22 years of age when he was killed. he was 10 when this war began. he was waiting for a school bus. the country, afghanistan, has proven over and over and over again, as hamid karzai has proven over again this past weekend, it is not worthy of our treasure, whether our blood tesh

refresh, our sons and daughters, or our money. it's time to come home. it's not our country. >> congresswoman? >> yes. i can't say i won't say that what we did was in vain. surely everyone knows why we went there and everyone in congress i was there at the time voted for the authorization to use military force, except for one person. and i don't think we prosecuted the war well. i think the counterinsurgent document did not fit afghanistan. i think afghanistan is more like vietnam. i think we had to be there. i certainly would love to say to every military family who has someone serving there now and who lost a loved one, thank you for your service. our country is stronger because you know that you serve at the command of our president and hopefully next time we will

assess better what a tribal society looks like and the way to fight a war there, i think, joe biden was right in hindsight that a counter terrorism approach would have been more successful and there would have been a smaller loss of life. going forward, i think that needs to be our approach as we try to prevent harm on our soil from al qaeda and al qaeda-like organizations. we can't do everything for everyone and nation building i know it's a stained word, just is not going to work in areas like afghanistan. >> michael steele, there were people saying this when we went to that war. they said let's be careful now. this is like vietnam and not get bogged down. this is another quagmire and here we are more than a decade later. >> the question was raised at the time and by myself and many others. what is the strategy here? what do you want this to look like when you leave? what does the last day in afghanistan look like and no one could ever express that or could

tell you and here we are. the people on the ground there still apparently do not appreciate the loss of life and treasure that the united states has committed, committed to the folks who wanted us there to help them get beyond terrorism and taliban and all of that and the taliban is stronger and we are less in terms of our influence and our ability to actually fix what we went in to fix. >> we are going to talk about this a lot more this morning. we want to get to other news. tomorrow 115 cardinals will enter the papal conclave to begin the process of selecting a new pope. the man who faces the challenge of leading the church in awe n directi direction. many in rome before heading into seclusion. unlike eight years ago when joseph rat sizinger was to repl

john paul, ii. cardinals are hope to energize the catholics by selecting a pope from outside italy. however popular italian cardinal scola said to be the favorite cardinal. american cardinals dolan and o'malley of boston are believed to be in the mix. let's go to our papal conclave desk and mike barnicle. what is important about the choice this time and what direction should they be thinking about? >> it's a krichlt moment for the catholic church. especially here in the united states given the sexual abuse scandal. i think it's critical the next pope realize the principal

function of the next pa papacy open the windows. it's filled of secrecy and corruption and scandal. the next pope has to address all of that. that is to give catholics both here in the united states and around the world a sense that he gets it. that, you know, the secrecy that has surrounded the papacy the last 20 years has to be eliminated. the church belongs to the people, not to the cardinals gathered in the vatican. it belongs to the people. if it's going to survive, it will survive. if it's going to prosper and grow, it has got to grow in sunlight. >> i'm trying to say this the right way. if they hired me as a marketer. no, being serious. serve them well to maybe put someone who is a little younger, to make a statement. visually you look at -- no, seriously. this is a church, obviously, in turmoil right now. to have somebody that physically appears they are of this time for, for lack of a better word, would immediately send a signal.

>> it's important. >> i think i'm the only one here who can say i've been inside as a former augustinaugustinian. i think the church has to make that step forward. the church is looking for a manager. it's looking for someone to come in and do the very things you're talking about. will that person be younger? i think they will be. not because they have to be but because everyone understands that is where the church needs to be. and so i believe that there is an earnest effort afoot by the cardinals right now to really drill down to the next level. you had the past two popes have been pastors and men who have spoken to the spirit and the intent of vatican ii, for example. now, in the course of that, what has happened? you've had the banking scandals, sexual abuse scandals and all of these things that have happened have gone to the management, the

running of the church and physical control of those institutions to make them more responsive to the people and open up their doors and windows for people to see. i think that is the pope that the cardinals is going to be looking for and hopefully the holy spirit will guide them into the right mindset. >> can i say something? >> yes, congresswoman. >> yes, i was remembering how in the 'seventh during the turmoil in latin america and overthrow of horrific throw of governments that had massive human rights abuses that the church was there. the church is a kril relief organization, even now pakistan. there is a past and maybe a future for this church if the -- if the stain can be eliminated that is magnificent. and i think many, you know, millions and millions in this world are catholic and revere

the spirituality of the church and the next pope maybe this fellow from latin america. i think quite quickly if he can just clean up some of the remaining mess can lead the church in -- can restore the church to a magnificent role in the world. >> to jane harman's point. that is the universal catholic church. i've never been anywhere in the world never encountered where go. that is the church. >> before we go. congresswoman, i went down memory lane with michael steele and mike barnicle. how do you not remember the studio 54 days with me? >> yeah, and my "saturday night live" days, i forgot those two. >> that is when michael was an augustinian fryar. >> the president might be open for a revenue what is calls

serious entitlement reform but can he get others on board? senator johnson will join us on the set. down do you know what you're eating? frank bruni tackles horse meat in his latest "the new york times" column and he joins us and along with rana foroohar and chuck todd. first, bill karins with a look at your forecast. after the snowstorm on friday that clobbered new england we had a pretty nice weekend and good deal of know melting. clouds and not as much sunshine today as over the weekend. forecast for today, no rain for the big cities on i-95. not today. we will see rain buffalo to pittsburgh but notice how warm it is. temperatures in the 50s and, in some cases, up near 60. tuesday is the rainy day in the northeast. we are going to have a line of showers and possibly even some heavier rain moving through,

8:00 a.m. tomorrow in d.c. your morning rush ohour tomorro will be wet and noon to 1:00 rain exits and over philly and new york. on tuesday afternoon new england gets the heavy rain and possibility of maybe flooding problems with that snow melt. keep that in mind. want to update you on the potential for the rain in the northeast and the travel delays tomorrow. today we got rain out there from louisville south wards to nashville and around new orleans and as far as the cold goes it's in the northern plains. i feel sorry for my friends in margin o fargo. minus 4 windchill to start your monday morning in march. cold in the northern plains and one more warm day for everyone on the eastern seaboard. you're watching "morning joe." we are brewed by starbucks. ♪ it may raise me among these ♪

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at that time a look at the morning papers. according to the "the wall street journal" 60 major u.s. companies part to combine 166 billion dollars in profit in offshore accounts shielding more than 40% of their annual earnings from being taxed by the united states. u.s. law allows companies to not record or pay taxes on profits earned by subsidiaries load internationally so long as the money is not brought back to the u.s. >> makes sense, right? okay. we don't need to ask for reform. "usa today" the amount of homes for sales have dropped dramatically and driving up home prices in the rented weeks. homes in los angeles have dropped 46% and minneapolis 37% and atlanta and las vegas two extremely troubled markets, down 32%. as prices go higher, analysts say the incentive increases for home builders to start building

again. from our parade of papers the kansas city star. heart disease not a phenomenon. clogged arteries have been found in 34% of the 4,000-year-old male and female mummies they examined. >> that is some autopsy. reuters reports this morning that intrade, online prediction site that lets you bet on everything from presidential elections to entertainment has halted trading. statement reside in part, quote, due to circumstances recently discovered we must immediately cease trading activity. the company based in ireland stopped accepting -- after it was sued by u.s. regulators in november. i understand now. >> mike barnicle said it. with us is the chief white house accordance for mike allen a look at the playbook. >> good morning. >> president obama now expected to speak this week at the organizing for action summit.

politico reporting that some distancing themselves from the president. explain that one. >> this will cement president obama's connection to organizing for action the nonprofit group that succeeded his campaign. the white house briefing room the last week, a few questions about how close the president or not going to be. when they get ready for the donors and grassroots supporters on wednesday at a washington hotel wednesday/thursday, the president is going to speak wednesday. so he is going to send a signal this group is doing my work, they are going to have sessions where they talk about how to get volunteers to help with the legislative agenda which is a lot harder than getting people to work with the campaign. they will hear from all of the other stars of the campaign. david plouffe. jim messina. they will all be speaking to this group. willie, as you mentioned democrats in the house you are conservative districts, a little worried about this agenda with

immigration reform, gun control, president's statements about gay marriage. if democrats are going to take back the house, they are going to need to flip a number of districts where mitt romney won and that is hard with this agenda. so democrats taking the bright side are saying, well, this has to distance ourselves from the president and some of these districts, that could actually be helpful. >> these are swing districts. you quote jim graves who almost beat michelle backman. another guys in the news the last week or so, jeb bush on set with us on "morning joe" last week and making the rounds on the sunday talk shows to promote his book. he claimed one thing many see as the biggest obstacle running for president his brother's legacy is not an obstacle at all. listen. >> i don't think there is any bush baggage at all. i love my brother. i'm proud of his accomplishments.

i love my dad. i am proud to be a bush. if i run for president, it's not because of something in my dna that compels me to do it, would be it's the right thing to do for my family that the conditions are right and that i have something to offer. >> mike, we heard in this in the 2012 race and hearing about it in the 2016 race. if jeb bush does not run it's because america is not ready for another bush. doubt he believes that? >> you certainly expect him to say this is a loving family and president bush 41 a big asset. advisers to jeb bush recognize the bush name is an obstacle. charlie cook, the politico handicapper said every couple of years jeb bush takes his name out of the drawer and holds a geiger up to it and if it's still radiating puts it back in the drawer another two years. . it is certainly something that is on his mind but we see with this book tour that jeb bush is

doing he does want to get back in the game. whether he is going to run or not. the way people close to him describe it as he is thinking about thinking about it. one more step to go. definitely signaling to donors and operative supporters he might jump in. >> mark halpern, what did the last week mean to jeb bush in terms of his political future? did we see a man who is preparing himself to run for president? some say he did damage to 4his prospects by running for his stance on immigration. >> i'm surprised he didn't think how the immigration thing would play better than it did because i don't think it was a necessary plus for him on in terms of the switch to path for citizenship. i think what he showed he is like hillary clinton which is a lot of things you need to run for president. he's got on the shelf. fame. ability to raise money. experience in national politics and ability to get on tv. he got on all five sunday shows with a policy book because there

is a demand for him in elite circles. if he runs i think he is the de facto front-runner a good long time but i don't think he is going to run. >> you don't think he is going to run? >> i don't think so. >> why? >> every candidate has liability. i think he can overcome that. i don't think he will end up with the fire in the belly to do it because running involves a lot of personal costs. i'm not sure he even wants to be president all that badly at this point. >> my biggest concern for him would be not the bush brand but the previous republican brand. you know? what the republicans need more than anything right now, is to say we are about tomorrow. we are not about yesterday. it's just the demographics lineup we know that. to take a candidate both in name and stature from the past is completely not what they need to do. >> not a turn of the page. >> democrats are going to be looking to do that with hillary clinton. so, i mean -- >> democrats don't have the problem. >> we don't know what the democrats problems are. >> they are a brand right now

that resonates -- >> we don't know in 2014, 2016. the president is smart to target the house 17 seats is within their grasp. we had to overcome to 39. so 17 is even with the redistricting we lost eight seats. there is a possibility. i think the brand issue is an important one. but i think mark has it right about in terms of what, you know, we will see from jeb bush the next few years. jane, how do you see the house shaping up in this battle? clearly nancy pelosi and crew want the reins back. you've been on that side and you've seen that leadership push. is there not just the push to take control, but what about that tension within the democratic caucus itself, what direction the party goes post-obama which will begin in '14? >> a couple of points. first on jeb bush. no one has mentioned marco

rubio, his protege who is crowding him and i think that is why bush recalculated the recalibration of his position on immigration. that was yesterday on the talk shows. that is going to make it tougher for him. i do think he is a very attractive candidate and an attractive man. on the house, yes, i've been in the mamjority and the minority. i was there for nine terms, as you know. the effort to get the house back is why it is what obama thinks is necessary to seal his legacy. however, let's remember, after 2014, we are in presidential election season. the time to get things done is these two years, and that is why i hope he will continue this charm offensive i think is not an adequate way to talk about it, but this bipartisan offensively, not just taking folks out to dinner but going up to both caucuses this week and getting to know some republicans. i think i was much more productive in congress because i worked on a bipartisan basis. that is where legislation comes

from. the committee system in congress is almost defunct. top/down structure now and a lot of talented people in both parties in congress who could do a very good job on tax reform and other things. and the president needs to connect into them for the next two years. >> all right. mike allen with a look at the playbook. thanks so much. >> have a great week. >> coming up next, tiger woods takes a four shot lead into the final round yesterday in pga's world costly championship but could he stay out of a field that includes phil mickelson and rory mcilroy? tiger is getting hot before the masters. highlights next. ♪ ♪ one for the road [ male announcer ] julia child became a famous chef at age 51.

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♪ welcome back to "morning joe." time for a little sports. look out now. tiger woods is coming. heading into the final round of the pgbc cadillac championship. four-stroke lead and getting his round starting off well. phil mickelson hot start and sputtered on the back nine. >> a little? >> missed a putt here. you can't miss that. >> that's me. >> par on 11 there for his third bogey for the day. mickelson finished the tournament at 14 under and four-way tied for third. bogey for tiger and didn't matter. clenching his 76th pga tour

victory. his first since late january and ends the tournament at 19 under par and two shots head of steve stricker. woods could play well now with the masters around the corner. >> do you think it appears that tiger is trying to reconcile with his former wife? do you think this has had any impact on his game? >> why are you asking me that? i have no idea. >> i'm more qualified. >> shameless bid for one of the open seats on "the view." >> he is happy about that cbs with the masters coming up. >> oh, yeah. oh, yeah. >> about 50% difference in rating when tiger is in the final round. >> i believe that. >> he looks like he has it back. the world baseball classic was set up to put the game on the display. oh, wait a minute. a night after roughed up and bench clearing brawl with mexico seven players objected. like the olympics for baseball. this is canada and mexico just kind of roman wrestling down

there. >> north american passion. >> is that a submission hole i just saw? united states and canada taking the next day playing in phoenix in an elimination game. things a little more civil in this one than between canada and mexico. they are exchanging gifts there. second inning. canada michael saunders deep off derek holland. top of the eighth now. u.s. down a run. adam jones doubles into the gap with two men on. both runners score and united states wins 9-4. they play puerto rico in miami tomorrow. >> college hoops now. seventh ranked michigan hosting number two indiana. final minute of the game. indiana down five. cody zeller grabs his own miss and tips it in and deficit to three. michigan kept missing one and one free throws. zeller banks it in. hoosiers up one. less than ten. trey burke, great player.

drives for the game winning bucket and can't get it. the tip! >> oh! >> rolls off. indiana comes back to win, down five with a minute! 72-71. they win the big ten title outright and probably going to be number one seed for sure. definitely. >> gene hackman still coach them? >> you're a little off. you've been in florida too long! you lost a step. >> you and congresswoman. >> the heat hosting the pacers. last time the two met in february. miami's last loss. take it from the end of the second. heat up six. lebron james with the ball. drives. throws down. >> that kid has got a future. >> he is going to be okay. dwyane wade with the steal and sink the bucket with the buzzer. heat win 18th consecutive game. 105-101. >> this is incredible the next one you have. >> watch this dunk by deandre jordan of the clippers. not going to say anything.

look at this. >> oh, my gosh. >> wow. >> poor brandon knight of the detroit pistons. he's a point guard. not fair. he is under there somewhere. we will watch it over and over. twitter really liked this one. lebron james called it the dunk of the year. whoa. >> you know what is fascinating? how the highlights in basketball, obviously, go crazy but the dunks where it is actually, i think, the least athletic part of the game. it's basically pure size. >> and who would know better than you. >> that's not true. >> that was an alley-oop. the guy has huge hands and seven foot tall. a dunk. he is the least athletic part of basketball. >> a seven-footer can jump like that and body control like that, that is athletic. he is not gawky seven-footer and can't tie his own shoes. >> we are fascinated by the dunks and to me the least skill of the game. >> what about when allen iverson would dunk?

>> you never saw me playing basketball, would you? >> i'd pay to see that. coming up on "morning joe," new reports that actually judd could now, in fact, take on senator mitch mcconnell in kentucky. will her star power help or hurt her? we talk about that when "morning joe" comes back. ♪ [ nyquil bottle ] you know i relieve coughs, sneezing, fevers...

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today is gonna be an important day for us. you ready? we wanna be our brother's keeper. what's number two we wanna do? bring it up to 90 decatherms. how bout ya, joe? let's go ahead and bring it online. attention on site, attention on site. now starting unit nine. some of the world's cleanest gas turbines are now powering some of america's biggest cities. siemens. answers. ♪ welcome back to "morning joe." 6:48. the united states capitol. sun night quite up. everybody spring forward? >> it's a happy time of the year. look forward to spring. birds will be chirping. all good. >> totally oppose spring

forward. >> really? >> oh, my god. i need the hour. >> for what? >> more sleep. >> make it up at noon. >> make it up at noon? >> oh, my gosh. >> what is wrong with this country? >> i know. come on. lots of speculation as you know about whether or not ashley judd will challenge senate minority leader mitch mcconnell for his seat. the answer is yes. actually judd will announce her candidacy around derby time in early may. a statement in the post she describes stories about her run as fabrications but reports gentlemen has interviewed top new york polsters and lining up field organizers. she currently lives in tennessee. still, republicans congresswoman blackburn says judd could be a formidable opponent against the

five term opponent mcconnell. >> she is one of my constituents. she is friend of mine. on november day in election we snapped a picture and it shows that people who have differences of opinion, if she runs, she will run hard and knowing that family, they are very tenacious and spirited. >> mark halpern, do you agree with howard findman's reporting she will likely run? >> i don't have that nailed as howard does but i think a lot of democrats have taken it seriously. it's not a great state for big democratic candidates and i think they would like someone well funded to go up against mcconnoll and not necessarily to beat him but keep him occupied and try to raise some issues. she has access to resources and fame and celebrity and i think she will make the race interesting if she does it and i think she can get away without a primary and get the pleasure of the big national platform for her causes. >> jane harman, what do you make

of ashley judd senate candidate? >> i think it's interesting. i don't know her but i come from californ california, the lands of celebrity. i don't think none of them would have won without celebrity. you got to also run a good campaign. and offer something once elected. i think reagan takes the trop trophi trophith. as for her, kansas is different from california. i don't know what her views are on all of the issues but she needs to channel her inner kathleen sebelius who got kansas and was a magnificent governor. wouldn't it be nice to have more women in the senate? >> absolutely. she will be running in kentucky. is there a risk of rnc of republicans overplaying their hand here? >> oh, arabic. >> they have been very dismissive of ashleyly judd. >> and because she is hollywood and all that. people want to say she is not relevant and not important. i think that is an

underestimation they can't risk. they need to look at this seriously. she will put a smart team around her. to mark's point, the dnc and the senate and democratic committee will be there in a major way to support her. this is the test for someone like mcconnoll who has to go up against a woman and stature in her own right and who, i suspect, given what i've seen from her, can go toe-to-toe with the senator and is prepared to take him on. i think the rnc and need to be very careful and smart how they approach this campaign and not cocky and self-assured as they tend to be sometimes. >> howard fineman is reporting she will make the announcement sometime around the derby. jane harman, thank you for being with us this morning. >> thank you. >> chuck todd will join us conversation, along with rana forooher. we will be right back. [ telephone ringing ]

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coming up next after years of cutting corporate jobs and downsizing, wall street hoping main street will lead the next rounds of economic recovery. that's next. "morning joe" will be right back. ♪ can acne cleansers be tough on breakouts

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♪ >> well, justin timberlake. welcome to the club, old boy. i always thaw of 'n sync member would be joey fatont. >> dan aykroyd? wait. you're a five timer? >> no, no. danny here is a bartender. the best he could could, having

only hosted once. >> but he is original cast. surely that means something, right? >> you're adorable! >> hey, you guys, stop your jaromiring and let's enjoy tonight! >> alec baldwin and tom hanks! >> i remember when i first put on the jacket so long ago, i was a different man then. no sudden fits of rage. >> ha, ha, ha. that's a good one, alec. >> it wasn't a joke. i'll let you know when i'm joking. >> relax, alec. >> candace bergin! the first female member of the five-timers club! >> and i would like to say something. i, too, wish we had a second bathroom but while we're all sharing, could you please try to remember to leave the toilet seat down? >> don't look at me. >> i didn't do it. >> i go in the sink!

>> this place is the best! i love being a five-timer. ♪ baby please >> hall of famers every side on "snl" the other night. michael steele and mike barnicle and joining the table is rana foroohar. thank you for joining us. did you see that? >> i did not. >> that is what the internet is for. you'll be watching clips all day long in your office. >> aykroyd and steve martin did the two wild and crazy guys which, in theory, you go, wow. but after seeing it, some things are left best in your imagination from the past. i really mean that. >> like you! >> oh, wow! >> i don't know. some things should be left from wince they came. just sayin'. >> it was a pretty cool update. you can see the wild and crazy guys. >> personal ride in our stretch limousine. >> i have a problem with him.

>> we are serious matters to discuss with you, rana. mark hall better than slammed daylight savings time. we had to throw him off the set. >> i'm here instead. i'm a member of that fan club. >> you hate sunlight and farmers is what you're saying? >> well, look. >> i'm from indiana. you can't hate farmers. >> i've already worked out my tan issues. >> you're good there. >> i've worked out the tan thing. >> what do you have against fresh vegetables? >> nothing. >> the american dream. >> we are not an agriculture nation any more. i get the whole farmer thing but you know what? fix the time and leave it alone! all this back and forth. why? >> really qufs iconfusing. >> tough move in the digital age especially when it's done for you, right? >> we don't want you to change the time, michael! >> why do we do it in the first place? why do we still need it? don't tell me -- >> some part of tradition you

soak in. >> what is traditional about moving the clock from one hour to one hour? >> this is real. >> this is traditional. >> you have been victimized by the cynicism of your own party. >> the republicans have been trying to fix the clock for years! >> you hate summer! >> you want summer to end at 4:30 in the afternoon? >> i'm not a summer guy. >> you're not a summer guy? >> look. >> michael, children also? >> what is up with the heat? >> he doesn't like children also. he doesn't want them to play later at night. any part of this great country you enjoy? >> what is up with that? >> what is your point? michael, what is your position on ice cream? >> and barbecue. >> barbecue. don't get me started on barbecue, please. barbecue? come on, guys. >> you're against barbecue? >> barbecue? come on, really. >> what? >> sticky fingers. >> this is an outrage. >> no, no, no.

daylight savings time is the cause of a lot of ills in our country and starts with barbecue and sticky fingers. >> wow. i can't go along for that. i can't. >> let's move on. you got your time. enjoy it. you got your time. we will be moving the clock back in a few months. >> y'all hang in there with me. >> is this a real movement that started with mr. steele or an angry -- >> i know michael. this is real. >> this is mark halpern. i'm with him. mark, keep the twitter feet going. >> we need a #for this. >> no time. #no time. wall street hoping businesses can succeed. for years companies slashed job, salaries and benefits to get profits. now financial analysts are seeing increasing sign that the health of the work force itself could be swinging back upward and will, in turn, help drive

consumption. friday's job reports was a sign of improvement but "the new york times" point to the s&p 500 which is on the verge of its own record high. analysts believe it's in large part because of the strength of american house holds. rana, translate that for us. >> the jobs number friday were amazing. they were the strongest in about four years. what is really interesting is that unemployment ticked down by enough that income actually started going back up. that is a big deal because wages in this country have been stagnant for four years. so, you know, one of the things i've always wondered covering the economy is how can you have a real recovery until people are getting a raise? you know, they don't have money to consume but finally we are starting to see that uptick and that is a big deal. now on the stock market what is interesting is that is down not so much to the american consumer but to the fed, which, for several years, has had a program of asset buying. they are buying bonds, buying a lot of stuff in the market. they are pushing stock prices up. now, whether or not that is

going to continue, we don't know. but the other important variable here is housing. the housing market is back. when housing is back, people feel really confident. actually, housing wealth has people to spend faster than stock increases. >> we have to understand stock market has nothing to do with what happens day-to-day at this point. >> that's right. >> you have companies increased 40% of profits last few years and not hired a person, actually downsized. but to your point, housing and when the actual income goes up. so this is really, really bright lights and full speed ahead. this is the first -- it's all been a head fake up until now. >> can't we say we are now substituting one bubble for another? i mean, you've got the fed pumping untold billions of dollars into this economy which is sort of a false leader in many respects. the money stuck on wall street is not making its way to main street and no one is talking about the cost of a gallon of

milk, you know, and a loaf of bread that is really impacting the consumer. with re looking at some time down the road this coming home to roost in the sense this inflationary effect, this bubble will sometime have to relieve itself in terms of the pressure? >> it's a great question. people have been talking about this, i'd say, for a year now. the fact that the fed buying up all of these bonds and pushing the stock market up is, as you say, disconnected from what is happening in main street in america. but i do think that these jobs numbers and the fact that income is starting to tick up just a little bit is a really good sign. the other thing to remember is that when you think about stock prices, particularly of america's biggest blue chips like ibm or proctor and gamble they are not just dependent upon you as workers. a lot of people get their money from overseas and a lot of places overseas. the merging market are still doing pretty well. there is a disconnect between the stock markets scoand the

economy to your point. >> your point of the job numbers was terrific. what happens down the road? we have got a substantial numbers of companies who are doing very well finally, getting back on their feet, the stock market is doing very well. and they are doing it with fewer employees because of the cutbacks the last three or four years. >> it's the most important question to me. the thing i'm really fascinated is blue collar jobs i think that will continue on into the white collar jobs. i think that the middle class is going to continue to be crunched. companies are spending a lot on technology. they aren't hiring as many people as they have in the past. it's going to be, you know, interesting to see what happens with that in the next five years. >> why the smarkt disconnect. the dow 30 and 40 years ago was when we were truly not a global economy and didn't have technology.

right now, i'm billing advertising agency. i'm not opening a new office in chicago. this is a fact. once and for all we have to separate the s&p what is happening here. the reason i see the glimmer is the housesing starts. that is the rubber hit the road kind of number. >> where are you investigating in? if you're not investing in bangladesh. >> that is where you are investing. all of the money made over there is not taxed here so it starts to become a spiral on top of that. >> when you think about hiring, do you find the technology and the internet is making it possible for you to run your business with a lot fewer workers? >> my point about technology. the two things not on the table. so, you know, as i always say, there is a dark underbelly to every technological advancement. >> doesn't the future of the american economy or a huge percentage of it, isn't it

rooted in our public school system? i mean, you've got hundreds of thousands of young people coming out of high schools and maybe junior colleges who are so remote from the technology education that people are going to need to succeed. >> i completely agree. i've been doing a lot of reporting around manufacturing this year. you go into factories and even on factory lines, jobs that maybe would have required a high school degree 10, 20 years ago, you need a community college degree and in some cases advanced degree to work the robotics and technology the companies are using. so i totally agree. it's all down to education. but it's a huge issue. >> one of the things that we did in maryland when the governor and i were running the state at the time, was to link the two. the twin pillars of education and economy and try to get the business class to understand that that individual, that young girl who started kindergarten this fall who starts kindergarten this fall in 13

short years when she is 18 years old will be knocking on your door possibly looking for a job. why not make the investment now in that education to get technology in the classrooms to help the public schools in particular that are struggling in your neighborhoods and community. that is an investment worth making longer term is a opposed to waiting and looking at a job market in 15 years and saying i can't hiring anybody because they are not skilled or capable of handling what we need done. >> in addition to that what do you think the level of concern is in corporate america or people who hire people? for those between the ages of, let's say, 40 and 55 who have lost their jobs in the last four years and might not get that same job or a similar job back ever again. >> it's huge. i mean, i think that aside from very young people that are unemployed, i think that age group is where the real concern is and that is why job retraining programs are so important, i think. companies are starting to take some of this onto themselves

too, because they are not satisfied with the sort of talent pool that they are getting in. they are not satisfied with what the state is doing around education and so i see a lot of big companies starting to liaison with community colleges and try to tell them, look. these are the skills we need. you have to churn out the workers and change the way you're running your programs. >> the answer to the we because i've had a lot of heart to heart talks with men and women in their 40s and 50s are in a middle management, senior middle management and they are forced out of a job. i say to them honestly, it's over in the corporate world. start to become an entrepreneur. >> that is brutal. >> no, it's the most humane thing you can say to them. it's time for a hard right turn. because as a 50-year-old, you know, vp at an advertising agency when now they are getting rid of that level and young people, the most decent thing i can say to them you had a great run in corporate run. now find that entrepreneur because nobody will take care of

you now and that might rebirth a lot of our economy. >> but starting out at 50 years old. >> i know, i know! >> but hanging on for another five years and out of work. but once again, start. you got the internet. there is not the barrier of entry of starting a business today as there was. you already have an in-house research department called google. a lot of -- >> right. >> that is the best thing people can do and what i advise people to do. >> this bums up against healthy. it would be a lot easier to be an interpractice mueentrepreneu >> we have spending cuts. >> i think the whole point about daylight savings time is true. >> it is the root cause. with daylight savings time gone, you still have daylight. >> he is still on it. he is still on it. >> i'm just saying. >> the middle class in this country so strongly favors

daylight saving too many. >> you have inner angst? >> it's not inner. >> he wears it on his sleeve. the question about manufacturing. apple made news a couple of months ago we are going to cut manufacturing jobs back here. some people said that would sort of a cosmetic thing. is there opportunity for manufacturing to come back to the united states in a way that is good for the middle class? in other words, not low paying jobs? can a manufacturing worker in the united states compete globally at this point? >> two answers. i think, yes, manufacturing is coming back for a variety of reasons. but it's not your grandfather or father's manufacturing. the jobs in the middle the 25 dollar an hour union jobs, those are gone. but i think that you have two classes of jobs now. you have some lower paid jobs but you also have more higher skilled jobs. i actually spent some time recently with ge at a factory in upstate new york, real state-of-the-art factory.

they use a lot of technology. there are very few people on the floor, but there are a lot of people that do programming for the machinery, develop sort of big data applications, sensors and products. i mean, a lot of high tech jobs are coming out of manufacturing so there are high end jobs being created here but you need an education. goes back to the education question. >> look. for all-of- all of my friends w manufacture apparel and getting 4 dollars a week in third world countries, it's not coming back. the economics aren't there. >> this conversation the 25 dollar an hour jobs are not coming back, never coming back, it's gone, never coming back. it begs the question over the last 20 years, who hasn't been paying attention, you know, to the fortunes and lives and futures of vast number of people in the middle class? who in our leadership class has not been paying attention to this? how did this happen? >> republicans, seller.

i'm not being glip here are complete top down prem hise, yo take care of the rich. >> it's bogus. >> no, it's not bogus at all. >> what do you base that on? >> based on every platform for the past three decades. >> take everybody at the top and everybody else at the bottom will somehow get better? that is crazy. we always argue from a bottom-up solution in this economy. >> i -- >> you missed a lot. >> mike, did you miss a lot? >> the reality as national chairman is not what i articulated when i got the power back for the party to govern again and get the seats in the congress. we talked about grassroots activism and men and women who turn this economy. not the wall streeters and not focusing there and not demonizing them the last four years. >> why is it okay to tax from 35 to 39%? >> why are you focusing on this? this economy is more than just

tax. >> one demonstration what i'm talking about. >> this freeze up the ability for you to keep more money in your pocket. >> exactly. your point. >> more money in your pocket? >> personally no. my point is what is ting argument if your premise is true. ? republican would go forward and say it's okay to change capital gains and okay to change 4% of the tax of the highest 1%? >> because we had this crazy idea that, gee, we are spending more money we are taking in. can we solve that problem first? >> oh, but -- >> can we solve that problem first? >> the republican argument. >> just like to spend because you got money in your pocket? >> i didn't say i wanted to spend. >> what are you arguing for? >> the basic tenant of the republicans is more money than fewer than many. >> that is such -- that is bogus. >> what did i do? >> sorry. >> you're just wrong. >> you're just wrong. >> i happen to agree -- i'm going to step in here and say i happen to agree i think supply side and economics is broken and we need a replacement. but i think there is another issue here which is that we have a kind of a methodology in

american. i think we need each other's help. i think we need government help and i think we need to sort of embrace that idea. we are all in this together. you are talking about technology a and globalization. we have to do it together and can't get in there and do it alone. >> i agree with that. >> she just said it nicer. >> i was trying to -- >> a better way of saying it. >> the point is marshall had it right. we need to pull yours up from our boot straps but sometimes we need help to do that. >> we do. >> that is what community and the strength of our economy is rooted in neighbor-to-neighbor, support and small neighborhood businesses and supporting them. my side of the aisle that we are looking at this from a top/down perspective is wrong.

not what a lot of us have argued and pushed and support. that is my only point. >> fair enough. we will take a break and continue this conversation. >> daylight savings time! >> it started everything. wheels came off after daylight savings time. >> the root cause, barnicle. >> the root cause. >> we will get to much more serious topic. horse meat. "the new york times" frank bruni tackles the horse meat scandal. the idea they sell meatballs. is that your idea? >> my idea was not the meatballs but we advertise the meatballs. >> you have to build the meatballs like the end table? >> donny says you have to sell meatballs at a furniture store. chuck todd joins us. you're watching "morning joe." brewed by starbucks on daylight savings time. [ male announcer ] this is joe woods' first day of work.

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♪

this is the first time i've ever had a conversation with the president lasting more than, say, two minutes or televised exchanges. i've never really had a conversation with him on these issues before. i'm excited that we had this conversation. we had a very frank exchange. we come from different perspectives. i ran against him in the last election! so we exchanged very different frank candid views with one another that were very different but at least we had this conversation. >> 7:24 as the sun comes up over the white house in washington. joining us from down there is nbc chief white house correspondent and political director and host of "the daily rundown" chuck to do. >> good morning, william. >> before we get to the news here we need to get your position. pro or condaylight savings time? >> no, i'm in the middle here. i don't like the -- >> don't give us this! >> no, no, no. as a kid, there was nothing like

daylight savings time. it was the most exciting thing. you got to play an hour later in daylight! so i can't -- there is still part of me that loves that part and now with my own kids, they are excited about the extra daylight. i hate this daylight savings creep. okay? this idea. remember? it used to be six months of the year was daylight savings time and six month of the year was daylight standard time and we would be on eastern standard time. congress kept inching it up and putting it -- and then when we moved back, backwards. now we are up to like, what is it? the first full weekend of march is now daylight. that is why people are -- we're all sort of taken aback. it's even darker than before when you get up. i don't like the daylight savings time creep. if we could go back to what it was until we waited until the end of march rather than the beginning of march and flipped over at the end of october rather than the beginning of

october. >> thank you. he understood this moment from the very beginning and the country understands it as well. the reality of it is we want our time back. >> wow. >> want that one hour back. >> that happened while you were asleep. >> i notice it! >> your entire mindset is blocked in the deepest darkest shadows of winter. spring forward. >> i'm spring forward. i need my time back! >> we have hall better than against and steele against and sounds like chuck todd is against. he is sort of going back and forth with the kids. >> the creep. >> you're indiana. you got to be -- >> i have kids. i'm thinking ice cream and barbecue and sparklers. >> good. >> do you think about going to bed an hour earlier? that would solve your problem. >> i think we have covered this. >> is that like lou dobbs? grassroots on tv? >> we don't get to do the early bird special, mike.

we don't qualify for it. if we did, we would go to bet earlier. >> thanks, chuck. >> i was just in florida. the greatest state in the union. the only place i can go in this country where i get carded in a 7-eleven! go figure! i have to show my idea. thank you, florida! >> my gosh. i think we have spent enough time on daylight savings for this segment. get back to it certainly later. chuck, talk about the sound bite we just heard. paul ryan saying it was a productive meeting, lunch with the pes of the united states but first time he has spoken to him more than two minutes. the president hets back up to capitol hill after the dinner and that lunch. what do you see into all of this? what is the president after here? >> i think he is after a large deal. i think he is after -- i mean, he is after what he says he is after. i mean, nothing hidden about it in that respect because if he wants to get more parts of his agenda done, he needs to make these budget conversations. even if they eventually get stuck in september and october,

he needs to put them on a track that seems rational for a while so they don't have a clash at the end of the month on funding and they don't have a clash in may, for instance, when the debt ceiling expires again. if they could have what looks like productive talks and negotiations for a while on one track and you separate it out from immigration, guns and some other things, then over on the right, on the other side of things, he can get some bills passed in april and may that don't have impacts on the budget while the budget talks are going on. i think he is essentially trying to restart things to get the budget out of the way of the politics of the other issues he wants to push. >> chuck, what do we know about the why of this and the now dennis mcdonough, the new white house chief of staff and joe biden the vice president himself. who are the architect or architects of this new outreach and how it could move an agenda? >> i think the motivator is

mcdonough more than anybody. it's this is the chief complaint. dennis reached out to senators as he was coming in to take take chief of staff. the chief complaint was the president's outreach to congress. dennis, because of the position he held before as deputy national security adviser, he actually had a lot of -- he had built a lot of relationships with a lot of republicans senators, in particular like lindsay graham and john mccain and i think how this dinner got started. he came in, in many ways, with a leg up on even a jack lu. he had interactions with the -- some of these current republican senators and i think so he is pushing this a little bit. and i think the president realizes they messed up. they totally blew the sequester politics on this. what they thought was going to happen and how they thought republicans were going to respond to sequester was not what happened. and i think had, you know, knowing now what they -- knowing then what they knew now, by the

way, i think at the end of 2012, you would have had a different set of negotiations. you would have had a president more motivated to get the bigger deal and get it all done then. i think he thought, for some reason, that his momentum of winning was going to carryover and he was going to win all of these budget battles and grind it out. i think they realize they totally miscalculated sequester so they are starting over. >> michael, if there is going to be a grand bargain here there has to be revenue in some form or another. maybe it's close loopholes. where do the republicans move on that question? as chuck said, the president thought he was going to call a bluff at sequester time. john boehner showed he wasn't going to move on revenues. what happens now with republicans? what can they do and offer the president to get this -- >> i think from the republican standpoint, they feel very secure in knowing that we got the cuts. and, you know, democrats are also, you know, quietly saying, oh, we got cuts too in defense.

sequester, on its face, may look like a bad thing for a lot of folks but i think a lot of people in washington are going this levels the playing field. i think now for republicans they want to see what additional cuts and entitlement or reform entitle programs the president is prepared to put on the table. republicans argue. i think chuck has made note of this several times already. the fact of the matter republicans put revenue on the table in january with 600 billion dollars in tax increases. so the question now becomes what is the next play by the administration which to chuck's point, is very interesting, given how they played this so far. they kind of got outmaneuvered on this and didn't think this would turn out the way it did and it has now. the administration is doing the cumbayah to get people in the room and say let's work this out. republicans are saying what is your deal? what are you prepared to send through the senate for us to vote in the house? >> they put a ton on the table now in entitlement reform on medicare and medicaid and social

security. i think they to come back with what is being put out on real notions in tax reform in particular that are not revenue neutral. >> what are those? that is what i was getting at. what would a republican be willing to do? what would john boehner be willing to do in terms of revenue? >> i don't think he is going to do anything. lindsay graham and others have talked about it and i think they have to deal with getting rid of a lot of dedeductions, the corporate loopholes that bring in new revenue. it can't be revenue neutral. the numbers don't add up to be revenue neutral. even though we raised some rates but lower rates in exchange for that. back to a grand bargain because the only thing that gets by him enough to pass. i think the strategy of working something through the senate and forcing the house to deal with it is the way it's going to go. >> to your point, though, mark.

republicans in the past have not been diverse to closing those loopholes. there is room there. i think you're absolutely right. for the republicans, they are not in as difficult a spot as they would have been, let's say, a few months ago on the subject. chuck, i want to shift gears with you real quick, though. and ask you given what karzai did this past weekend, what are you hearing the white house? are they privately stewing on this thing in terms of the slap in the face the calling out of karzai by our role in afghanistan? how do you see that playing out for the white house right now? >> well, they are always stewing at karzai. this is not new on that front. that said, they are trying to say, well, he is just trying to play local politics. this isn't as big of a deal as it may look. they are trying a little bit of trying to push it back a little bit on that front. but,, i mean, i think that this only -- this is only going to accelerate the motivation by a lot of -- a lot of the obama

administration and frankly a lot of members of congress are like, okay, no slowing down and what is this mean? one of the big negotiating points over the next 18 months that has taken place in afghanistan is what is the size force that is going to be there after 2014? and, you know, karzai is trying to -- he won't say it, but he wants more u.s. forces there because that is what keeps him alive. ultimately that is what this is about is his survival. a lot of times a lot of of what he says in public is about -- is sort of -- it's about negotiating almost on that specific issue more than anything else. >> yeah. in the midst of this now the two suicide bombings over the weekend on chuck hagel visit and getting word two american forces killed in the last several hours in another insider attack. it just keeps getting worse. chuck todd, thanks. see you at 9:00 on "the daily rundown." we will be right back with more "morning joe." it's monday.

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few more details on the story we mnds in the last break. u.s. ofgs say an insider attack in afghanistan has left at least two american troops dead. it happened outside the capitol. they say an afghan police officer opened fire and leading to a gun battle that led to three killed. this comes a day after hamid karzai accused the american

government of colluding with the taliban. speaking early yesterday karzai said a pair of bombings were in service of america suggesting the violence aimed at convincing the afghan people that international forces are needed beyond their 2014 deadline for withdrawal. if you can follow that logic. karzai also alleged the u.s. is holding talks with the taliban on a, quote, daily basis. obviously, the united states rejects that idea but one more step in the strange relationship with hamid karzai. >> his police are killing our troops, right? >> i actually agree that karzai is very worried. i mean, if you look at the history of afghanistan, what tends to happen after large international powers leave is that whoever is the standing leader gets killed and all kinds of sectarian violence. i agree he is trying to play local politics but he is very, very worried. this is man who is not well liked in his own country and i think he knows he's in for

trouble next year. >> what do you think this country looks like. talking about this in the top of the show. in 2014 and 2015 how much is it different september 10th, 2001? >> not very different at all. i mean, i hate to be a pessimist but i'm not the only one. i think this is a place where it's very hard for a foreign power to go in and change anything. >> it goes from the seventh century to about the 15th century. >> yeah. >> karzai leaves the country with all of the money he stole from us. we have seen this movie before. >> yep. >> sure have. coming up next, ikea's secret ingredient. fran bruni joins us with his take how a food scandal overseas should make us rethink about what we are eating here at home. frank joins us next. [ male announcer ] it's a rule of nature.

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the chicken is a heritage breed. woodland raised chicken that is fed a diet of sheep's milk and soy and hazel nuts. >> this is local? >> yes, absolutely. >> one more time. it's local? >> the. >> is that usda organic or portland organic? >> all across the board, organic. here is the chicken you'll be enjoying tonight. >> you have this information? this is fantastic. >> absolutely. his name was colin. here are his papers, okay? >> that's great. >> he looks like a happy little guy that runs around. a lot of friends? other chickens as friend's putting his wing around another one and palling around? >> i don't know if i can speak to that intimate knowledge about him. they do to make sure that their chickens are very happy. >> that's a clip from

portlandia. frank bruni is with us. he took on the recent ikea meatball horse meat scandal. every time we eat something that we haven't grown or reaped and cooked ourselves we have taking a leap of faith it was protected from contamination and it was inspected properly and the cook didn't mix in something objectionable and the waiter didn't drop it on the floor. we are in stream trust and vulnerability and that goes only so far. we can be local and seasonal and sustainable and organic and buy our pork somewhere other than where we buy our throw pillows but never entirely sure. good morning. >> good morning. >> a lot of jokes about the ikae is false? >> i thought are they oddimens? >> they are meatballs and made of horse meat and a scandal in europe as well. serious points to be made about what we are eating.

>> i don't think this is just about horse meat. i think what the story tells us and turned out horsemeat and pork in a lot of products that are supposed to be beef. we are not sure what we put in our mouth. ask you request enough questions and go to the right places like that clip you will be okay. we were told about copenhagen which is considered the world's best. in mid february they had a food poison thing where scores came down with food poisoning. that is a kitchen as fastidious as any. when you open your mouth and putting something in it, you are taking a big risk. >> i would say it's a completely -- anyone goes and researches and is skeptical about not just at a restaurant but evening going into a grocery store? we trust there is one along the line taking care of it. is that not the case? >> you have to trust because only so much with you check on. you talk about the grocery store and the label and you look for the inspection label, did that inspector do his or or job

correctly? is that label honest? we see stories every couple of months "the times" did this recently they take foods that have labeled calorie counts and submit them to independent assessmen assessments. always the calorie counts are way off. the food mislabeled most was a vegan tofu sandwich had 85 calories and doubled that number. you think i'm getting have gone vegan and what can go wrong? you are trusting it is what it is labeled as. >> what is the breakdown there in something has twice as many calories as it says why isn't that picked up along the line? >> we don't have enough inspectors doing that work. i'd rather have chains post calories and the way the bloomberg administration has asked them to than not because it's some information sometimes that information is going to be correct but what we need to realize is that information isn't always going to be correct and we don't have enough

government funds or enough will in the world to really, really police that the way ideally we could. >> if you're watching at home the answer is? >> go to five guys! >> first of all, i worked for ikea for years and did ads for them. >> you did? how many meatballs did you eat? >> the meatballs were delicious and i'm going to throw up now. >> horse meat is not bad for us. >> but ikea was the first retailer in this country to understand it where they would have a play area for kids and restaurant is a real selling point. the question for somebody at home is what do you do? great. we know that, you know, we can't trust everything, but what do you do? >> i mean i think you try to make your odds as good as possible. i think it makes sense to shop in stores with a good track record and makes more sense to shop at the farmers market than other places.

i think the other takeaway as offensive as a lot of this is in terms of aesthetics or culture because a lot of us don't want to eat horse, the bottom line there haven't been a lot of deaths from this sort of stuff or serious illness. . salmonella but i think as you think about big food and how much we all eat every day, in fact, it must be mostly safe or we would be seeing a lot more illness and deny than we are i don't know how much of a consolation that is but i think it is? do you think will change the complex of supply chains and less of our food or companies source less of their food from all over the world and we will see more localism? or as you point with you it doesn't matter if it's next door, you can solve the problem? >> i don't think you will see a lot more localism for pure economic reasons. a lot of people can't afford to buy their food in that way in a nonmass produced way. mass produced isn't always bad. there was a recent survey of

fish an one-third of seafood taken from restaurants, grocery stores and et cetera around the country one-third was mislabele it was mislabeled as something other than it was. >> sea horse. >> the great culprit was sushi counters, not grocery stores. think you were going to the sushi counters, your fraud better, but they were worse offenders. >> good idea to stay away from sushi at gas stops, gasoline, quick marts. >> i tend to >> let me ask you about yesterday's piece in the times, i'm reading it and you reference being at noma. i have not been to noma. >> they don't let people like you into noma. >> but at one point during a sumptuous meal you are having and you are served and you eat a live shrimp. >> yes. >> still wriggling a little bit. in the context of horse meat, everyone was horrified that horse meat informs this meat. a lot of cultures eat horse on

purpose. at noma, the greatest restaurant in the world by a lot of people's estimations, they thought it was appropriate, or ideal, in terms of freshness to serve a live shrimp. could i have done without the live shrimp. it took a pause and a lot of courage to eat it. >> what happened when you dipped the live shrimp into the cocktail sauce? >> you really want to be grossed out there is a dish served in a lot of chinatown restaurants called drunken shrimp, put live shrimp in a bowl in front of you, pour alcohol over them and light them on fire around get to see them emmow l emmow late bef eyes. >> we do that with lobsters. >> heart scream he is. >> how are you coming out on daylight savings time? >> i haven't adjusted yet. i hate losing the hour. >> see?

>> ground swell. >> if we could chain it to gain hours, wouldn't that be great? longer lives, illusion. >> i think we have a majority i anti-daylight savings majority on this show. incredible. >> 7:00 at night. >> fourth of july is great. frank bruni, a really good piece, something we ought to be thinking about. read a portion of frank's column at mojo.msnbc.com and the full thing at the "new york times." good to see you. forget iraq and afghanistan what is the u.s. military -- why do they still have bases in japan and germany? author and historian takes aims at potential targets for military cuts. senator ron johnson will join us to talk about a deal for big a deal in washington. you are watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks.

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coming up next on morning joe, we are just a day away from the first steps to electing a new pope. will a different face in the vatican help point the church in a new direction after decades of scandal abuse? we are going to break down what you need to know about some of the front-runners when "morning joe" comes right back. revolutionizing an industry can be a tough act to follow,

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good morning. it's 8:00 here on the east coast in new york city. 5:00 as you wake up out west. back with us on set, mike barnicle, mark halperin, donny deutsch, michael steel and donna washington with us, former congressman jane washington. things not easier for the u.s. relationship in afghanistan after the country's president, hamid karzai, accused the american government of colluding with you the taliban to undermine stability in that

country. speaking early yesterday, president karzai said a pair of taliban bombings over the weekend were "in service of america" suggesting the violence was aimed at convincing the afghan people that international forces were needed beyond that 2014 deadline for withdrawal. president karzai also alleged the u.s. is holding talks with the taliban on a "daily basis." the comments coincided with secretary of defense chuck hagel's first trip to afghanistan since he was confirmed for the job. he addressed karzai's allegations yesterday in kabul. >> the united states was unilaterally working with the taliban in trying to negotiate anything. the fact is any prospect for peace or political settlements, that has to be led by the afghans. i have always believed that it is wise for nations to engage,

to reach out. that doesn't mean you are prepared to negotiate. it may never get to that point. but i think it's far preferable than war. >> nbc's mike taibbi is joining us live. he is in afghanistan this morning. mike, a joint news conference yesterday between hagel and karzai was canceled yesterday. the united states saying it was for security reasons. afghanistan publicly said that was not the case. where do we stand this morning? >> reporter: surprising, willie, that there is a war of words that the late stage, like mixed sports metaphors this isn't spring training this is late fourth quarter and still have the escalating war of words. understand what led to the cancellation of the joint press conference at the end of such a visit. you have to look at things that happened and some that didn't happen during the weekend while secretary hagel was here visiting afghanistan for the first time as secretary. for example, on saturday, there was supposed to be an official

handover ceremony of the u.s. prison at bagram air base to the afghanis, would have been a feather in karzai's cap, more autonomy, complete control, et cetera, but it didn't happen because of the dispute who would have the final say the u.s. or afghan nist oh on which prisoners would were considered high-value and who should be released and that didn't get doochblted and a demand by last month that there were unconfirmed allegation of attacks against civilians gave a two-week dead light. that passed. special forces are still here that didn't happen. think of what did happen. reported over the weekend those two terrible suicide bombing attacks, one in kabul within hearing distance of where hagel was having meetings. between the two of those explosions, 18 dead, including eight children. sunday morning happens, karzai goes on national television loaded for bear and makes his accusation that the u.s. is acting in concert with the taliban against afghanistan's

interests. all that said, we went to a press briefing this morning by the isaf command who said the notion of giving complete control, 100% control for afghan's security to the afghanis is on schedule and will happen this spring. anybody who set their watches forward this weekend knows that's just weeks away. this is afghanistan. the near spring of 2013. >> all this almost 12 years into this war now. this is where we still are. nbc's mike taibbi live for us in afghanistan. mike, thanks so much. >> jane harmon, you were on the house intelligence committee for several years. let me read you a quote in the papers today from general dunford, who took over as international commander just a couple of weeksal. general dunford said yesterday, "we have fought too hard over the past 12 years. we have shed too much blood over the past 12 years. we have done too much to help afghan security forces grow over the past 12 years to ever think that violence or instability

would be to our advantage." what is going on with hamid karzai? >> well, he's mercurial fellow. i think what did he this weekend was extremely disrespectful of the new secretary of defense, but more of the 66,000 troops we still have there and the almost 5,000 who have died there and the enormous amount of resources we've spent there. i do think that two precipitating event press the bagram handover around the wardak province departure. be that as it may, i think what we are doing is trying to make sure that our withdrawal protects our troops and the equipment we are trying to get out of that country. i do think it will happen this spring. karzai has to want stability in his country more than we want it and i applaud our military for all the efforts they've made 12 very, very long years and the longest war of our history. i want to add one other thing. saturday night, i was at the

grid iron dinner with the president and some republicans and democrats. my host was msnbc's one and only young and fabulous andrea mitchell. >> she is young and fabulous. i second both of those. michael steel, what does it tell you about where we are with afghanistan? what is what does it tell you what happens at the end of next year with 2014? hamid karzai frustrated the united states for a decade. >> what's the advance here? you know, the congresswoman, i think rightly notes, that we are dealing with someone who is mercurial. why would he do this to begin with? we have been holding this guy's hand, walking through this process with him there have been back channel there have been front channel conversations about how this was going to unfold there are no secrets here. the united states know it is wants to get out. the president set the deadline to do that our troops are pulling back. we got to get the equipment out. we want too turn over as much control as possible but we want stability in the end so why is all of this? so i think the question that a lot of folks are asking what is

the objective that karzai would have to have this kind of display this weekend that would cause these kinds of frictions as this process unfolds? >> jane, would you have any idea there? >> well, my speculation, by the way, michael and i practiced law together centuries ago. shows how old friendships are wonderful and mike barnicle -- >> "saturday night live." >> yeah, my speculation is that karzai knows we really are leaving and wants to have someone to blame if the country tanks as we go. it's gonna be our fault. and i think he is making harder for himself. he has had a lot of year doors get the training wheels off. we did this in iraq. it was the right thing to do to leave, to end the war there and it is a shaky beginning but these countries have to build their own futures. that's the whole point. and we have tried our hardest to help train and support that country in a very difficult transition and if i were mr.

karzai, i would say in public -- in the public area, i would say thank you very much to isaf and to a coalition that has made the big sacrifices for the people of afghanistan. >> can you imagine you're a family that's made the ultimate sacrifice and you lost one of the 5,000, a son, a daughter, a brother, a father and you're watching karzai this weekend, what you must be thinking? >> going through the television set at that point. all that -- all that loss of life and treasure for what? to have this guy sort of throw back in your face as our troops are doing what they need to do to keep it clean getting out. and he should be doing everything possible to make that happen. >> beyond karzai, congresswoman harman, what are we going to leave, only have a year and a half leave if you believe the 2014 deadline. what all right country look like? will it be any different than when we got there in 2001?

>> a great question. it is a tribal society. sophisticated pock nets the country a lot depends on what happens in pakistan, not just afghanistan. and hopefully, we can build, rebuild some relationships there. it's been difficult but pakistan's about to have a homely democratic transition to new leadership. the military has already transitioned. i'm not saying this this going to be easy but if we are able to create stability there and stop the border incursions, i think afghanistan will have a better chance. but there is endemic corruption in the karzai administration. there's an election in afghanistan in 2014, the last one was stolen, i think he would have won in the end. but there were stories that would make even chicago cringe about ghost ballots, et cetera. this time maybe other candidates will be able to run and there could be a more competent regime. i say this thinking about what's happening in egypt and how

elections don't make democracies yet, but i do think that the afghans have to bet on their country you can't have someone save it for them. >> tomorrow 115 cashed nals will enter the papal conclave to begin the process of selecting a new pope. the man who faces the challenge of leading the church in a new direction after decades of scandal and abuse. many of the cardinals there in rome, making their final public appearances before heading into seclusion where they will remain until they reach a two-thirds majority decision about a new pope. unlike eight years ago when cardinal joseph ratzinger was the front runner to replace pope john paul ii, this time no clear consensus around the successor, you hear names but no one that this a front-runner. cardinals within the vatican are hoping to energize the 1.2 billion catholics. the first pope from latin america, she werer exis the hope.

but angelo scola said to be the favorite of cardinals from nation. timothy dolan of new york and sean patrick o'malley of boston are believed to be in the mix. >> it is a place filled with see kress circumstance mystery, corruption and scandal and the next pope has to address all that and give catholics both here in the united states and around the world the sense that he gets it, the see kress say that surrounded the papacy for the last 20 years has got to be

eliminated. >> if they hired me as a marketer, no, i say this seriously, work to hire someone younger. and is that church obviously in turmoil now and to have somebody that physically appears they are of this time, for lack of a better word, would immediately send a signal. it sounds like a trivial thing, but it's important. it's important. >> i think the i'm only one here who can say i have been inside as a former auguste tinnian friar, i can tell you i think you're right, michael that the church has to and likely will make that step forward. the church right now is going to be looking for a manager, looking for someone to come in and do the very things that

you're talking about. will that person be younger? i think they will be. i believe is there an ernest effort afoot by the cardinals right now to really drill down to the next level. you had the past two popes -- the past two popes very been pastors. they have been theologians, men who have spoken to the spirit and the intent of vatican too. for example. now you in the course of what thank, what happened, you have the banking scandals, the sexual abuse scandals, you have had leaks, all these things that have happened, gone to the management, the running of the church, the physical control of those institutions, that make them more responsive to the people to open up their doors and windows so people can see. that's the pope that the cardinals are going to be looking for and hopefully the holy spirit will guide them into the right mindset. >> can i say something? >> yes, congress woman?

>> yes. i was remembering how in the '70s, during the turmoil in latin america and the overthrow of some who are riff inc., governments that had perpetrated massive human rights abuses that the church was there and the church is a critical relief organization, even now in pakistan, notwithstanding how dysfunctional the government there is. so, there is a past and maybe a future for this church if the stain can be eliminateded that is magnificent. and i think many millions and millions in this world are catholic and revere the spirituality of the church and the next pope maybe even this fellow from latin america, i think quite quickly, if he can just clean up some of the remaining mess, can lead the church in -- can restore the church to a magnificent role in the world. coming up on morning joe, senator ron johnson says talk russ under way between president

obama and republicans over entitlement reform but who will make the first move? he joins us later to discuss. and up next, forget the war in afghanistan. is the united states still fighting world war ii? hmm. author elizabeth cobs hoffman says it's time to come home to america. she joins us next to explain. but first, bill karins has a look at the forecast. >> morning to you, willly. it time change has a lot of us confused. sunrise definitely later than we are used to. watching one storm on the map. no other big storms this week. that's good. take you into it. a lot of wintery weather over the weekend, denver through the central plains. the east coast enjoying a great warmup after the huge snowstorm in the new england area friday. we do have rain thought this morning. we are not getting so-called drenched in every location, the snow is just about everier with. just about wrapping up in areas of des moines. as far as the rain goes, the west of that is down in areas like louisville, columbus and south of that i tell you what, it is very cold. now we are getting into the middle of march, don't want too

see windchills like this anymore. negative numbers fargo, single digits in minneapolis and duluth. and cold air will travel across the country and head for chicago during the day today. be prepared. winter cloth rodrigues needed in chicago and much of the great lakes. so hire's the forecast for your monday. one more warm, nice day on the east coast, heavy rain possible from new orleans to atlanta. then as we go into tuesday, little travel heads up, in the air especially from the new york, d.c. to boston airports, tuesday, we will see a period of heavy rain and possibility of significant airport delays. washington, d.c., you enjoyed a beautiful weekend, not as much sunshine today, but at least you're dry and near 60. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. we're here! we're going to the park! [ gina ] oh hey, dan! i really like your new jetta! and you want to buy one like mine because it's so safe, right? yeah... yeah...

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welcome back to morning joe. mark halperin, michael steele -- >> you got t keep going. >> i came close. all back with us. joining us it author and historian elizabeth cobs hoffman, out with a new book, "american umpire." her op ed in last weeks "new york times" entitled "come home america" reads in part, "the sequester ex$85 billion this year in across-the-board budget cuts about half of which will come from the pentagon gives americans an opportunity to discuss a question we've put off too long. why we are still fighting world war ii. if today, our largest permanent bases are still in germany and japan, which are we are fectly capable of defending themselves and should bes trusted to help their neighbors.

it's time they foot more of the bill or operate their own bases. china's authoritarian capitalism hasn't translated into territorial aggression while russia no longer commands central and eastern europe. share, the burned of security with our al slice more than a fiscal necessity. it is the sine qua non to a return to global normalcy." elizabeth, for many, many years, i've been asking myself, i think a lot of people ask themselves, why in this day and age of increased budget crunches here in the united states, we have got huge numbers, maybe 85,000 people, military members in europe, in germany. we have okinawa, a sustainable base there in okinawa for years. i don't think norway is going to attack us. why are we doing this? >> i think we boxed ourselves in, basically. this is why history is so important because if you know how you went down a certain path, then you can figure out how to get back home.

and the united states, our allies pay -- rather we pay double, triple, quadruple what our allies pay for defense, i mean, as a percentage of gdpn japan they call this the yoshida doctrine, let america pay. . and the result of this is that our students have $100,000 worth of dote get qualified for basic jobs when they come out of college. ireland and iceland and finland, germany, france, student goes to school for free. and i think it's great we did a really important job. we did this at a time when everyone else was busted and broke and bombed out. and that was really important and that is really the truman doctrine. but now 60 years later, you know, it's time and we can empower our allies by telling them, this is your responsibility. and we do not need to be pay four time what is other people r >> how many people do we have, let's start with germany, how many people do we have in germany, including big hospital base and everything like that

and what's the cost? >> i don't know the specific cost in germany but, for example in japan, we have about 7,000 people permanently. we have 3,000 in germany, we have 3,000 in the uk. we have people spread all around the world. and those numbers may not sound that big but it's over decades and decades that end go up and they go down. and it's just too expensive. but also, i think that there is a fundamental mooral cost, psych inc., cost, financial cost. what made america great was not our military industrial complex and we do not need those defense industries to be rich. the united states was the world's largest, most prosperous economy in 1890. decades before we became the empire. although i think empire, i came upon that idea partly because i went back to the writings of george washington, john jay, alexander hamilton, james madison and the people who wrote our constitution and that's what they saw as the role of the federal government because they said states won't agree r you

know, countries won't agree all the time with each other. so somebody occasionally, occasionally, must weigh n and when abraham lincoln invadeded american south, he was weighing in as an umpire but we eventually withdrew. we did not continue to okay pit american south because states need to be equal. and is true on an international scale as well. >> i agree with the overall premise although i'm more with the chinese military threat than i think you are. we have president now probably somewhat sympathetic to what you are saying, certainly got economic conditions at home that would drive toward its the kind of changes would you like. what's stopping those changes taking place, what are the elements in that society that keep there from being debate and the kind of changes you would like to see? >> i think fear is what keeps us there. you just mentioned the fear of china v always a bogyman under the table, sure there is one here now the united states was the staunchest defender of china all the way up through the middle of the 20th century and i

think it's possible to acknowledge their growth, acknowledge their strengths and help them build to their strengths. you make people into your enemies. you can make them into your enemies. you can also, to some extent, at least make them if not quite your partners, you can establish a situation where it's understood that they have their power and their integrity and t japan f china and japan aren't good neighbor he is it is partly japan's fault. >> i share some of your concerns about china. i can see your point about decreasing military in europe, but you know, when you look at where conflict is going, it is actually moving east. i was actually -- i was in pacific command maybe three years ago and saw a map of where conflict is heading it is heading away from the middle east and toward the south china seas or the least that's the view of the military cured and see these increasing tensions between china and japan. you see a lot of regional jockeying. is it the right moment right now to be drawing down in asia, do

you think? >> you may remember billy bront, the great german leader. and one of the things he did is he mended fences from world war ii and -- with poland that helped to lead to the end of the cold war. one thing japan has not done is really mend the fences from world war ii and that's their responsibility. our arming japan, building up our military in japan is never going to take away this basic fact will is that they need to show china that they are -- i know this sounds crazy, why are we fighting world war ii but here we are and i think our bases are partly about that so giving japan more responsibility, japan has defense as 1% of gross national product. we have almost 5%. so they need to be taking more of that and do more to build fences with china. they need to apologize for world war ii. >> in your book, you make note of the fact that umpires don't win. and so why do you come to that conclusion and what do you see and say about that? >> well, as i mentioned, our founders talked about the american government as an umpire

to compel acquiesce sense when states would not yield to a basic framework of law. and after world war ii the great thing after world war ii is that we all together, as a globe, put in a framework of law and because no one was around to enforce it the u.n. initially could not do that the u.s. ponied up. but it's like if you stake a tree. if you keep the stake there forever, the tree does not flourish, so we planted this basis for the organization, we gave it a running start. we will always be there. not talking about withdrawing you and putting our heads in the sand or any such thing. but the american commitment is certainly out of proportion and proportion robs others of their responsibility. >> you say you will always be there and yet tehran's point, you put conflict in on a google map, you know a little dot you follow it is going south china sea, yemen, africa so we are not always going to be able to

afford to always be there in places like japan, germany, just a simple fact of life. >>ed good thing is -- if you aren't, other people do stand up more. wasn't it fab bruise louse over the weekend -- >> like can chinese? >> china putting their thumb down a little bit on north korea. as long as we are keep to -- to play the bad cop, they always get to be the good cop and that's really not quite fair us to and i don't even think it's really -- promotes better world security either. >> the book is "american umpire," elizabeth cobbs hoffman, thank you very much. coming up, apple has enough cash on hand to buy ford and happen da and maybe germany, too and still have money left over so why is the company courting $137 billion in the bank? that's next in business before the bell. [ male announcer ] when it comes to the financial obstacles military families face, we understand. our financial advice is geared specifically

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markham mill and carrie fisher confirmed they will reprise their roves luke sky walker and princess leia in the sky wars sequels. said another former "star wars" actor, nissa waiting by the phone. hopefully hamill and fish ver aged better than chewbacca.

david einhorn sued apple and tried to force a bigger payout by having the company sell shares of preferred stock. ceo tim cook says he is in active talks to decide what to do with all the money they have on hand. $137 billion in the top draw underneath their t-shirts i why are they doing this? >> incredible. it's 7% of the entire -- of all of corporate america's assets is owned by this one company. >> 7%? >> 7% it sin credible y do they have so much cash? in part, because they can. the most profitable company in history, they do -- they keep a lot of it abroad, they do a lot of business in asia, lot of their manufacturing is done there talk about american manufacturing.

i can tell that you electronics is one area that's not coming back to the u.s. because it is really based on cheap labor and it's gonna stay there. now, apple does business there, they keep money there but also very easy for technology companies in particular to move money abroad and keep it abroad because a lot of their value in the fuzzy realm of in the tell ledge wall property and international laws make it easy to move that, a patent or money created in one country to another because of that i think this brings up an interesting point which is that banks used to be the bad guys in corporate america. i think big tech is gonna come under a lot of scrutiny because technology companies, of which apple is the largest and most profitable, are really holding the money backs these days. they are huge. they are under a lot of pressure to bring back cash, to create jobs. apple, we were talking earlier, has announced it's going to put some jobs in the u.s. and texas, but i agree that that's cosmetic. i think that's about taking people's eye off of these bigger

issues, about tax and about job creation and about outsourcing. >> what would david einhorn want apple, as an investor, to spend some of that cash on? >> he want it is to go back to shareholders. he would like bigger dividend payments, he would like a certain kind of class of stock that would allow investors like him to get some of that money back. he is not really arguing for them to bring that back and create a bunch of fact police in the u.s. and create jobs. 6 it's sort of ironic the company is under pressure to go back to dividend payments. not sure that will help u.s. growth and a number of people, warn buffet, said apple can run this company better than david einhorn and do whatever they want with that money. >> sticking with warren. according to the "wall street journal," 60 major u.s. companies park the combined $166 billion in profit in offshore counties, in effect, shielding more than 40% of their annual earnings from being taxed by the

united states. u.s. law allows companies to not record or pay taxes on profits earned by subsidiaries located internationally as soon as so long as the money suspect brought back to the united states. the extra revenue could go a long way for the u.s. government. the joint committee on taxation estimates fully taxing overseas earnings would generate an additional $42 billion for the government in 2013 alone. we don't need tax reform. to help us answer that do republicans want title reform enough to give ground on taxes? senator ron johnson of wisconsin joins the table right here, next, on "morning joe."

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welcoming with open arms, i think the president is tremendously sincere, i don't think this is just a political change in tactic, i think he actually would like to solve the problems of the country and it would be to his benefit and certainly every american's benefit if he did that. it ask time to start leading and the way you do that is stop poking your finger in people's eyes and he has a chance to accomplish a big deal. >> tom coburn, republican senator from oklahoma on tape, but right here, live, we have republican senator from wisconsin, senator ron johnson. upset during the commercial break because mark halperin asked you a very good question. >> ask it again. dressing room fighter. >> what is your position on daylight savings time? >> i'm for it across the board. i like having more daylight. >> talking a lot about bipartisanship and the chance of a compromise. you said there needs to be leadership. one of the big issues now can there be coalitions in the senate. i asked you which democratic

senators do you feel you can work with to try to forge deals, not just on budget issues but on everything? >> let's face it. i think people like mark warner, joe manchin, claire mccaskill, her ranking member on oversight committee, tom carper is very serious about making sure the government effective and efficient. there are people, but we have to begin the process. that's really what the president did last week. he began that process but just a first step. the next step, we have to agree on the facts and figures. i get on these shows, you argue back and forth yoorks want to arguen at facts and figures. you have to first spend a fair amount of time. what i learned in business negotiations, rather than argue about what you disagree on, first, figure out what you agree on, first that process, you develop the relationship, you develop the trust, once you get those disagreements, a lot easier to come to resolutions. >> your fellow home state member

of congress, paul ryan, still seems to say we got to get rid of obama care. do you accept that obama care is law of the land, going gorn nah be phased in and whatever deals are struck are with the assumption that it is here to say? >> i'm concerned about it. i think the cost estimate of obama care is grossly understated. i think far morer americans are going to lose their employer-sponsored care, employers drop the coverage and make their employers eligible for huge substances and exchanges. this is lead to rationing, lower quality of care. here is the basic economic problem. >> why will it a lead to rationing? >> increases the demand for health care, 30 million americans getting health care through a medicare process reduces the supply that san economic disaster, taking $716 out of payments to providers, reducing supply, increasing demand that doesn't lower the cost curve that increase the cost curve.

>> just to stay on health kay, lots of big issues, do you aspire to have a -- live in a country with universal health care is that a goal of yours? >> i aspire to health care being governed more by free market competitive system. i use the example of one area of health care that generally isn't covered by a third party payer or governments is eyeglasses. feet market produced businesses that you can walk off the street, get eyeglasses for -- in an hour, two for the price of one and take a look at the quality of laser surgery, gone up, the price has gone down a lot, ten years. feet market system is a marvel in terms of guaranteeing the lowest possible price and cost, the highest possible level quality of customer service u >> yes or no, do you aspire for the united states to have universal health care coverage? >> i want everybody to be able to access health care acre fordable health care, you do that through the free market, not government control. we moved in the wrong direction that way. >> what do you look for people look fork eyeglasses who just can't afford eyeglasses? >> we are a compassioned society

we want a strong social safety net. the problem is, mike, how do you design that strong social safety net without incentivizing people to take advantage of it that really shouldn't be taking advantage of it? when you have gone from 17 million people on food stamps in the year 2000 to 47 million in -- 12 years later, i think you have a problem, particularly when you're running deficits i the last four years, 5.1 trillion. do you know what we are dog our children? here is the point i was trying to make i do not know a parent that would willingly drive up their debt, max out their credit calleds, never intending to pay it off, just dump that off on their kids and grandkids, yet collectively that is exactly what we are doing to our children. it is utterly immoral. we have to come to terms with that, start reforming these prom promises, these program we have made to people, try and honor them but recognize we don't have the capability of paying for them wet mortgaging our children's future. >> one of the things i always

wonder about, we talking about def circuits why don't we hear more about how to grow, solutions for -- >> i totally agree. >> we think about history, it is not so much the size of the debt but how fast we are growing. in the clinton era, we grew out of debt. what can we do to get out of the 2% economy? >> don't increase taxes on small to medium-sized business people. everying we do in washington i agree totally should be targeted toward economic growth. here are just a couple of numbers. even with the meager economic growth we have had from 2009 to 2012, revenue to the federal government has increased by $344 billion per year. if we just return to arm noal economy like 2007, the government collected 18.5% of gdp in revenue, a little bit more than the 50-year average that would add another $435 billion billion per year. mike, you were talking about repatriating those corporate earnings, $42 billion. the fiscal cliff deal will raise about $41 billion. that's tenth of what we can get

through economic growth. i totally agree, republicans talk about economic growth but you get mired down into the detailed policy, the punishing success doesn't work. >> senator, on that point, donny deutsch and i got into this it this morning about the messaging of the gop he was making the argument we are largely top down, care more about the rich guy than the little guy. my argument was that we have fundamentally been in a position i think over a long time talking about the power of small business owners and keeping that community oriented growth from the bottom up. how do you respond to the noise and the clamor about republicans being out of touch and focus more on tax cuts for the rich billionaires and million snanchts we are not in a position where we can cut taxes just trying to not to penalize

their success e i'm one of the small to medium-sized business people. i note incentives what makes me do things, what prevents me from things. i'm concerned before he american. we want a prosperous america, every american to be able to build a good life for themselves and their families but you do that by making sure we have a robust economy so the people have the dignity of being able to get a job and you don't have that when you continue to grow government. you can get government jobs but those aren't self-sustaining. >> off of former chairman steele's comments now about message, you mentioned food stamps a few moments ago. if you've lost your job in the last ten years, if you haven't received a raise in the last eight years and you've got three or four kids and you're a middle income family, food stamps, you're gonna go to food stamps that accounts for a huge percent of the growth in food stamps, i would think. why is it that a lot of republicans refuse to drop, like

scratching a sore, food stamps rather than dropping the hammer on overseas. >> rather than tinker around the edges, let's scrap the entire tax code, let's start from a clean piece of paper and let's build a tax code that raises the revenue we need and does no economic harm. in terms of food stamps, generally, those -- the number of americans, percentage of americans on food stamps range somewhere between 6 and 10%. we are up to about 15%. something has gone off kilter here. and again, you know, i'm not saying let's not help those that need help. we want to help those folks. but what can we afford? we have to taken a honest assessment of, you know, social security. here's a little chart. it drives me crazy when people say social security is solvent through 2035 or 2038. it's not. the next 20 years, social security will pay out $5.1 trillion more in benefits than

it takes in payroll tax. this isn't a sustainable system. medicare is worse. the liabilities in the federal government, you know, just medicare, social security, our debt and what we owe federal retirees is larger than the private net asset base in the united states. all assets held by small businesses, large business and household this is a problem. and so, the other point i made to the president was if we are going to solve these problems, we have to build relationship, we have to build trust but we have to agree on the numbers. and we have to spend a lot of time going mere are the facts. the facts don't lime the president has a perfect flat form, let the american people note ex-tent of the problem. one of the points he made, americans pay $1 into care, get more than $3 out. a message only the president can really breakthrough and let the american people know b. >> a good meal and you didn't have to pay for t. >> senator ron johnson, a

hopeful message for the president. thank you. >> thank you. former "snl" stars reunite to welcome a new member into their elite club. that's next when "morning joe" comes right back. i know what you're thinking...

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drew barrymore. inducted in 2007. john goodman hosted 11 consecutive years. and, of course, chevy. >> i would like to order one rolls-royce. and just send the bill to me, mr. steve martin. [ laughter ] >> chevy, what a surprise. >> steve, i never see you anymore. >> i know. it's a shame. >> no. it's on purpose. [ laughter ] >> oh, my god. i just realized, i'm standing next to the three amigos. [ cheers and applause ] would there be any chance i could get you guys to do the salute? >> no. i don't do that anymore. >> the three amigos! [ laughter ]

♪ ♪ good-bye, hugo c. ♪ you had such great style and panache ♪ ♪ you were a man of the people ♪ and you liked to wear a sash [ laughter ] ♪ and it seems to me you lived your life ♪ ♪ like a candle in the wind ♪ if a candle could pull out two pistols ♪ ♪ at a press conference [ laughter ] ♪ and you said the u.s. caused earthquakes ♪ ♪ and you outlawed coke zero ♪ and on your shoulder stood your parrot ♪ ♪ with a matching red beret [ laughter ] up next, what, if anything, did we learn today? i know what i learned.

here is your business travel forecast. i'm meteorologist bill karins. no big storms this week, thankfully, rainy weather throughout date today down here in the south. for tuesday that is going to sweep up to the east that is the travel trouble day. not so much today but as which go through tuesday morning to the afternoon, a lot of big cities in northeast are going to deal with a period of very heavy rain. have a great day. omnipotent of opportunity. you know how to mix business... with business. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go. you can even take a full-size or above. and still pay the mid-size price. i could get used to this. [ male announcer ] yes, you could business pro. yes, you could. go national. go like a pro. to get her oven baked taste straight from the microwave. like her oven roasted chicken baked in a rich, creamy alfredo sauce.

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