right now on "andrea mitchell reports" death in afghanistan. two americans are killed in an apparent insider attack. as defense secretary chuck hagel fires back as president karzai's charge that the u.s. is somehow conspiring with the taliban to keep the war going. >> the united states was unilaterally working with the taliban in trying to negotiate anything, the fact is any prospect for peace or political settlements, that has to be led by the afghans. >> will the war of words change the white house timetable to wind down the war? tough new gun legislation heads toward a senate vote. what are its chances? we'll talk to the bill's co-sponsors, senator patrick

leahy. countdown to the conclave, last-minute preparations under way in rome. how long will it take to see the white smoke? plus, this isn't your typical political fight. new york congressman peter king gets in the ring literally with a champion kick boxer. and justin timberlake joins an exclusive club on "snl." >> candace bergen? the first female member of the five-timers club. >> and i would like to say something, i, too, wish we had a second bathroom. but while we're all sharing, could you please try to remember to leave the toilet seat down. >> don't look at me. >> i didn't do it. >> i go in the sink. >> this place is the best, i love being a five-timer. >> best "snl" ever? perhaps good day, i'm andrea mitchell in washington and two american families today are mourning terrible losses in

afghanistan after another apparent insider attack. led to the death of two u.s. troops. this after president hamid karzai this weekend disrupted defense secretary chuck hagel's first trip there as defense secretary, with wild accusations about u.s./taliban collusions. what is going on here? joining me is new york congressman peter king, former chair of the homeland security committee. let's talk about two more insider attacks, killing two americans. three afghans, also after a man in afghan police uniform opened fire on the visiting americans. right after chuck hagel had been there this weekend and hamid karzai canceled the joint news conference amid wild accusations. what dot implication force the u.s. timetable withdrawal. >> it's absolutely disgraceful. it's somewhat personal to me, i lost a constituent corporal buckley. last summer. it's inexcusable.

i believe our military should be more forthcoming in exactly what's happening over there. what's being done to those who perpetrate these acts what type of vetting there is. and as far as the timetable, i think our timetable has to be based on what's in our best interests. as to whether or not we're going it leave a total vacuum behind. what we can do, but certainly more of these attacks continue, the harder it is for us to sustain any type of presence there. and karzai has to realize that. he can't continue to play this double game of somehow relying on the u.s. when he needs us and taking cheap shots and vamlessly attacking us and not providing the type of security that our troops need if there's any responsibility he has, his government has, is to at least try to insure that the people who going to be close to our troops can be trusted. and we have such a rash and pattern of these insider attacks, it reflects on them and he should be worrying about that. rather than making up these ridiculous charges about the united states. and to be doing that when secretary hagel was there? maybe he thought was somehow going to divide the american

people. whatever problems senator hagel had going through the confirmation process. whe he's in afghanistan, he represents the united states of america. and america is going to rally behind him and the president and the administration. >> absolutely. he's on his way home safely. having stopped in germany. but certainly not an auspicious first trip as pentagon chief. i also want to ask you about a controversial decision the administration has brought up abu gaith, the son-in-law of osama bin laden after he was taken in an interesting way by the fbi and the c.i.a. in jordan after kurky extradited him to jordan and on his way to kuwait and he ended up in our hands in new york city. the argument from the administration is that he was talking them and giving them useful information, even after he was given his miranda rights and there's no reason why he cannot safely be prosecuted in lower manhattan where we, you know, prosecuted and convicted the blind sheikh. what are your objections?

>> let me put it to the administration and our intelligence, the counterterrorism forces for making this apprehension, it's very important, very significant, i commend them for it. i do disagree with the decision not to treat him as an enemy combatant and not to try him in a military commission. not that i'm not worried about the conviction, i think he will be convicted. i think the security threats in lower manhattan are nowhere near what they would have been if khalid sheikh mohammed was on trial there or the other 9/11 plotters. my concern here is that i believe even though he gave a 22-page statement, when you have someone who was in the bin laden inner circle, someone who was in iran for so many years, and there's a lot more we can gain from him. and i don't care how good the interrogators are, in the brief period of time, i don't think they would have got all out of him that they could have. and that's where the advantage of going to guantanamo. so my main objection in this case would be that to me, there's a lot more information that could have been gotten or potentially could have been

gotten and we probably won't know. as far as, also as far as setting a precedent, if someone captured overseas who was in the bin laden inner circle is going to get a civilian trial. i don't know who is going to be tried in a military commission. that's the basis of my objection. it's different if all the of the objections that had the ksm going on trial in new york. mine is primarily rooted in the fact that the interrogations i think would have been more extensive and could have been done for a greater period of time if he were at guantanamo. >> now on a slightly related subject, the tsa and terror alerts. they have first of all now permitted knives to be carried on board. as you know, the flight attendants initially and others now are all objecting to this. chuck shum your, your democratic colleague in new york has objected strongly. we had an incident where a inspector routine inspection, to see how the tsa employees are doing. got through with a primitive ied

hidden in his clothing at newark airport. so what is your rating of the tsa now, you're on homeland security? >> actually homeland security committee under my chairmanship and congressman mike mccall's chairmanship has a lot of concern over the tsa. we is not been attacked in 11 1/2 years. having said that, there's no excuse after all of these years for any type of explosive device to be brought on to a plane. there's no room for error here, this isn't where you have to be right most of the time, you have to be right 110% of the time. one explosive device on one air carrier in this country and we're back to september 12th, 2001. so john pistol has to do a complete top-to-bottom review of what's happening at newark in particular and with the tsa overall on you know these type of inspections. as far as the pocket knives, that was first rolled out, i assumed that john pistol had spoken with the air marshals and the flight attendants because

there is some rationale into what he's trying to do, by taking things like pocket knives off the table, if you will, they could focus more on other devices or instruments that we may feel are more lethal. without getting into any types of specifics. but the fact that he didn't and there is such resistance now from the law enforcement community, i think that he should go back and look at that. relook at it before it's implemented. because again, you know maybe a ball-point pen or a pencil can be as lethal as two, you know, two-inch knife. but on the other hand, again, in view of the fact that the professionals who are going to be on the flights are so concerned, i think that, john pistol should go back and look at that again. >> i just wanted to stop taking my shampoo. finally, i want to ask you about you being in the political ring and now literally in the ring. you apparently were helping a friend out with a fundraiser. and got into the ring. i mean, what was it, two rounds? how did it go? >> i'm looking at pictures of it

now. >> it went well. >> i was helping -- what it is is my boxing trainer is also a boxing promoter and there's a local pub, a landmark in my community. and they were promoting fights there and they asked me if i wantsed to box an exhibition, they would have sold a lot of tickets with or without me. i agreed to do it it's like fantasy baseball. some guys play golf with tiger woods, some people play tennis with tennis stars. i had a chance to box a champion in the ring. to me it was a big plus for me, i enjoyed doing it and i was dealing with real people. this wasn't the country club or a ballroom of a hotel. this was real people. we had a large crowd and i was able to hang out there for three or four hours and hang out with a lot of good people and find out what's on people's minds and most importantly i didn't have a heart attack, i didn't die in the ring and my wife, even though it was her birthday and she wasn't overly happy -- >> did you this on your wife's birthday. >> congressman -- >> i got home in time to go to dinner with her. she wouldn't go to the fight.

she boycotted the fight. my wife and my sister boycotted the fight. my brother went to it. it was a split in the family over this whole thing. >> no kidding, congressman, you did great in the ring. i think you were boxing irish john foley. but i had no idea -- i had no idea it was your wife's birthday. bad, bad, bad. >> what can i tell you, andrea, i can't be perfect. >> nobody's perfect. thank you very much, thanks, congressman. meanwhile, paul ryan is ready to roll out the house republican's new budget. which some would say is more of a political document in parts because it includes some republican wishful thinking. >> are you saying that as part of your budget, you would repeal, you assume, the repeal of obama care? >> yes. >> well that's not going to happen. >> well we believe it should. that's the point. that's what, this is what budgetsing is all about, chris. it's about making tough choices to fix our country's problems.

>> and joining me now for our daily fix. msnbc contributor and manager of postpolitics.com. >> that's a hard act for me to follow, andrea. a member of congress boxing in ring. >>ed on his wife's birthday. really. >> unbelievable. my wife would never let me box on her birthday or otherwise. >> i was going to say, let's hope not. let's talk about the paul ryan budget, though. because that's going to be a fight. and just -- i mean it may have always been a nonstarter, but for them to propose getting rid of obama care, i mean what were they talking about at lunch if they're talking about getting rid of obama care and scoring it as savings? >> so, here's the issue. these budget blueprints are that. they're kind of wishlists, they're the vision, the party would put in place if it was in a position to put it in place. the reality is, they're not and

obama care is not going to be defunded. paul ryan knows that. but what he's trying to do so sort of give the alternate universe in some way vision of if republicans were in charge, this is what our priorities would look like. now, there's an easy counter to that. which is president obama won the 2012 election. relatively convincingly, it wasn't just about his health care plan. but that certainly was something that republicans thought would hurt him, that wound up hurting him less than we all expected. it sort of an interesting document, but i think you have to take it as this is, this is the alternative vision of the republican party this is not something that anyone, including paul ryan, thinks is going to actually happen. >> but the fact that the president actually had lunch with paul ryan, paul ryan said this was the first real conversation they've had. and is now going to go to the republican caucuses. this is a big change. it is an acknowledgement that their game plan did not work. on how to handle the sequester.

they thought it was really going to be damaging to the hill. much more so than it was and not damaging to them and they've lost some altitude. >> i think it's fascinating, andrea. i wrote about this i thought the sequester would ultimately be very tough for republicans to win politically. simply because people don't know that much about it they're not sure what it really does and given that absence of knowledge, it tends to devolve into a popularity contest, president obama went into the sequester significantly more popular than congressional republicans. it hasn't worked out exactly like that. i think in part because president obama in the last week before the sequester warned of dire consequences, his people will say, we warned of them in the months down the road. but i think the general sense was, this is going to be bad on march 2nd. and it wound up not being so. one thing to look at, andrea. what happens after this week? the sequester is still in place. does the president continue with these meetings in washington? or does he do what he pledged to do after the election? go outside washington and sell

it, campaign for averting the sequester? and how does that sit with republicans? my guess is not well. >> and they've got to get their facts straight. they won more pinocchios than they wanted from your colleague. >> on easy things like janitors. >> yeah. and at the cabinet level as well. >> right. >> to be continued, chris cillizza, thank you very much. in less than 24 hours, the doors close on the sistine cham chapel and 115 cardinals will begin their deliberations to select a new pope. msnbc's chris jansing joins me from the vatican. chris, set the stage for what is going to unfold tomorrow. how is this going to work? >> i can tell you a lot of people here are very excited. i was inside the walls of the vatican today. they're putting the finishing touches on all the preparations, i talked to the person who is in charge of making sure that all of the dust is out of the sistine chapel. look at that, spectacular shot. they put up the stoves, they've

put up the chimneys, they're ready to see what smoke comes out, the signs around town are -- white is pope, black is nope. but we've got a few things that have to happen first of all. today they met for the last time. and tomorrow there will be a mass in the morning. then they go into the conclave. and i think that these comparisons that we've been hearing, to sort of like the new hampshire primary or the iowa caucuses are kind of apt. all the cardinals will spread out around rome at their so the of titular parishes as they call them. you can see the parishioners cheering for their cardinal. but there is a sense here that the equation has changed just over the last couple of weeks. since pope benedict. now pope emeritus decided to step down. more than half of these cardinals have never been in a conclave before. they were actually appointed by benedict. and so were sort of getting a sense that they're getting to

know each other and maybe coalescing, andrea, around a few candidates, a few being maybe a dozen or so. >> you know, and chris, i have this vague memory, correct me if you recall, there was one moment when the smoke coming out, i cath remember whether it was john paul 1 or joi or john paul the smoke coming out was sort of grayish white and our colleague, keith miller was there and people were not initially certain whether it was white smoke and whether there was new pope. >> it happened john paul i, john paul ii, pope benedict, i was here and as a matter of fact i was talking to lester holt this morning and we both couldn't sleep because of our memories of eight years ago, because of the terror of not knowing whether it was black or white. sometimes you see the sky, it's so white or gray, it's sort of hard to distinguish. so we'll just have to wait and see. i think you know, it's very unlikely that we'll see anything

that's not black tomorrow. but everything that's happened over the last three weeks has been surprising. so i suppose we should stand by for potentially a surprise on who the knew pope is and when, we don't know when. >> we will be watching and talking to you, thank you so much, chris jansing, our colleague there. and next, senate judiciary chairman, pat leahy is here on the first gun legislation since newtown to get to the senate floor, it's his. and new details on the big embarrassment for the state department. this is andrea mitchell reports. [ male announcer ] why is kellogg's crunchy nut so delicious?

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and it was shepherded through by the chairman of the judiciary committee, vermont senator pat leahy who now joins me. senator, let's talk about your gun legislation this is the anti-trafficking law. tell us why you think this has a good shot, if you think it does, on the floor. and why, why this law, why first? >> well this is something that law enforcement really wants, we've had this problem where people bought guns legally, a whole lot of them. but then they get trafficked to drug cartels or gangs. certainly a lot of the guns that have shown up in, in gangs or murders or in drug cartels,

including some across the board in mexico. many of them were bought legally by people who then sold them illegally to drug cartels and others. law enforcement strongly backed this bill. they said close the loopholes, it's not going to stop gun owner who obeys the law, follows the law. it's not going to stop them from owning a gun. but it is going to stop the trafficking. >> there was only one vote, republican vote in committee for it so it was pretty much a partisan vote, do you expect that on the floor as well? >> no, i've had, i've heard from a lot of republican senators who want to keep working with me on it. because they've been hearing from the police and others in law enforcement from their state. and also you know, legitimate gun dealers say they want to know where the guns go that they sell. they want to make sure that people are buying them, are

using them for what they want them for. >> so now that it's out of committee, what's the next step? is it scheduled for floor action? >> we have three more that have to come out of committee. senator feinstein has a major bill, listing a number of weapons she wants banned. >> the assault weapon ban. >> yes. and senator schumer has one on, on background checks. senator boxer has one on schools. all of these will be voted out. they'll have differing chances on the floor. but i think that we ought to get them out of committee and put them on the floor. i think that it is, i think it's important that the judiciary committee vote on them. we've had several major hearings on these bills. but all of, have to have a chance to vote, for them or against them. but i think they ought to stand up and vote. >> what are you hearing from the

nra? is this going to be filibustered? >> i would hope it wouldn't be filibustered, that just allows you to vote maybe. think people on this issue expect you to vote yes or no. the background checks, universal background checks, the nra was for a few years ago. they were for it before they were against it i think that most people, certainly legitimate gun dealers say why should we have dove a background check, but somebody selling guns out of a tent at a gun show might not have. we have to pay taxes to the local community and state. we have to fill out all the paperwork, why shouldn't they? >> i'm a gun owner and when i purchase a gun as i have on different occasions, i have to go through a background check. i think if, and i have no problem doing that. but i think everybody should have to. the same way i do. or you would. >> want to ask you about the

fight over judicial appointments because caitlyn halligan was blocked again for the second time for the d.c. circuit court and there are vacancies there and many are arguing that this is republicans trying to block democrats from gaining a majority on that very important court. second only to the supreme court. she's a former solicitor general in new york state and she had taken on the nra in her role, you know voting or litigating something for the new york state government as a solicitor general does. do you think that that is what has caused her to be blocked? do you think it's just that the republicans do not want to give you a vote? >> i think a little bit of both. this is a woman who is one of the most qualified people we've seen come before our committee from either republican president or democratic president. her qualifications are enormous. she's backed by both law enforcement and others. normally this would have been an

easy voice vote. the fact that she was defeated, i think is outrageous, i think it's a blot on the, on the united states senate. she got more than 50 votes. but because they were filibustering her, she didn't go through. the same people who said it would be wrong to filibuster courts of appeals, judges, of course voted to filibuster once the various lobbies came in. and this is a woman, any court would be proud to have her. i don't know why, why a woman with the qualifications actually far exceeding many of the people who, men and women, who have been confirmed to that court, why she should be stopped. i think that they, they when doing that, they politicize the d.c. circuit. it's become politicized enough. it shouldn't be politicized even more. >> senator pat leahy, thank you very much.

thanks for being with us today. thank you. >> and president obama tabbing his campaign team, to help a new fight. former white house press secretary, robert gibbs joining us next to talk about that and a lot of other things. this is for real this time. step seven point two one two. verify and lock. command is locked. five seconds. three, two, one. standing by for capture. the most innovative software on the planet... dragon is captured. is connecting today's leading companies to places beyond it. siemens. answers. with an intuitive motion activated lid and seat,ad bold makes sure you'll never have to ask him again.

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and with responsive, dedicated support, we help you shine every day of the week. the formidable obama campaign machine has found new life as a nonprofit lobbying group. it's own organization called organizing for action, the president is going to speak to the group wednesday night at its organizing dinner, despite criticism that it is a built-in conflict of interest, because donors can give unlimited donations. joining me now, robert gibbs, former obama white house press secretary. well, the president promised all sorts of transparency, came out against lobbying initially. when he first ran for office. now here he's doing what democrats have a accused republicans for doing for a long, long time. having these lobbyists and

business people being able to contribute unlimited amounts of money. >> first and foremost, the group won't take money from lobbyists. unlike political c-4s, involved in trying to tear down the president's agenda, every contribution and every amount will be disclosed. and -- >> after the fact. >> well you can't disclose it before they give the money. and no corporate contributions will be taken. i think, andrea, it is the best opportunity and the best set of decisions to come to how do you keep millions of people that were excited about the president's agenda and politics involved, obviously that cost money. great care must be taken, though, to insure that as you're doing that, you are not also harming the larger brand. >> you're successor and our buddy, chuck todd were going at it over this at the white house briefing just now. i want to play a bit. >> just taken aback by your answer to question about organizing for action.

>> you're taken aback? >> it's no different than the president sees this group, as no different than the dscc or any other group? >> i didn't say -- >> this is a group that's planning on coordinating with the white house, is it not? >> well ofa -- was set up to promote the president's public policy agenda and therefore, as anyone would expect, the president would likely meet with their representatives to discuss his agenda. and any notion as we've talked about that there's a price set for that, for a meeting with the president is absurd. and wrong. >> doesn't it make you sort of nostalgic. don't you miss that platform? >> i would much rather spend my afternoons with you than what i used to do. >> it's certainly mutual. but robert, there is sort of a perception issue here, that this is an attempt to preserve the campaign structure, and have the president be meeting with these people. seems to be sort of a price paid for that. >> well again, i think we'll know everybody who gives money, you'll know their identity, you'll know the amount.

the one thing, i look at republican groups, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars spent against health care. even after its passage. against all the other aspects of the president's agenda. none of those people disclosed their contributors. they take corporate money, they take money from lobbyists. i do think this is a good-faith effort on the part of the president to keep those millions of people engaged and on his side. while also doing it in a way that is above and beyond what the law calls for. >> now, the president certainly seems to be changing direction. not only lunch with paul ryan and dinner with a dozen republican senators. but now he's going to the hill. he's going to be meeting with the caucuses. so this is an outreach. is this just to show that he's trying? and he expects to be beaten down? or is this a real effort to engage? >> i think this is genuine page-turner. i think this is, i think the president and the team realized that the way to get things done was only through this path.

the way they were doing things and quite frankly, the gridlock that it ensued over the past several months and even the past two years, was probably going to clog up all of the significant time periods left in his administration to get something done. that's not a four-year window. it's probably a year or a year and a half-long window. so he had to change something up. and look, i give the president and those republicans, i give them kudos, because each side has its problems with the way the other side dealt with it for the past four years. they've put aside those differences to come and talk. and look, i do not think magic will happen necessarily overnight. but i think as long as they continue to have constructive conversations, develop a social relationship and talk about these issues, away from deadlines, i think that can only help break gridlock and finally get something done.

>> so guns, immigration, everything else was going to be put in jeopardy by these continuing crises over fiscal deadlines, debt ceilings, whatever. and this is an attempt to break through? >> i think it's an attempt to break through. and quite frankly, other than immigration, which republicans have a real desire to get something done on for their electoral politics. i think the president and the team looked at the fact that if the calculus if this didn't change in some way, it was hard to see anything getting through. not just budget issues, but anything really beyond immigration reform, for the significant time period again that the president has to actually get something done before we really get into the 2014 elections. and once the 2014 elections are here, it starts becoming time, weirdly we've already started talking about it, who becomes the next president. >> we're not going to go there today, robert. >> i'm glad. >> thank you very much. coming up next, the karzai factor. former defense secretary, bill cohen on chuck hagel's first trip to afghanistan as pentagon

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i'm really glad that girl stayed at home. vo: expedia helps 30 million travelers a month find what they're looking for. one traveler at a time. expedia. find yours. defense secretary chuck hagel's first trip to afghanistan as pentagon chief has been headline-grabbing for all the wrong reasons, including accusations by hamid karzai that the u.s. is in collusion with the taliban to extend the war. former defense secretary bill cohen from the clinton administration joins us from new york. thanks very much, bill, good to see you. let's talk about this, the initiation rites for any pentagon chief, or foreign cabinet secretary, to deal with hamid karzai, i know he's doing it for local consumption. but at some point, isn't enough enough? >> at some point he's going to

hurl an accusation and an insult which is going to break the back of the camel here. or that of the united states. and i think we've seen over a period of time, his capacity to turn to these kind of rhetorical flourishes, to cover a large part of his anatomy. but i think that we have to take that in the context of his survivability as such. that goes a bit too far under the circumstances, to say we're engaged in collaboration with the taliban in order to occupy his country for its resources, we're there to help stabilize his country and the men and women who have sacrificed their lives for that objective are to be praised and not used cynically in this fashion. in any event, chuck hagel my good friend and former certainly exercised a great deal of discretion, did he not engage in trading insult for insult. but i can say it from this particular platform.

the last comment of karzai's is an insult that goes yont the pale. in the meantime the most important part of the travel in a secretary hagel has undertaken is to go and visit our droops and to see what took place. a major attack upon the ministry of defense and we have the green on blue attacks, once again, taking place. this is something that's going to require a great deal of more careful vetting of those we are training. those afghan police and soldiers that we are training to make sure that we're training the right people. not simply taliban who are wearing the uniform to them launch a machine gun attack or suicide bombings against our troops and those of the afghan people. so it's, those two stories about the bombing and the suicide attack have been overshadowed by the president carsi's statements and it's unfortunate. i think it's an important trip for secretary hagen and i'm sure he will come back and report to the president and members of

congress and give them better insight in terms of how long we're going to be there and how many numbers we will have along with our coalition forces. >> meanwhile, north korea canceling the 60-year arm cities with the south, the peace agreement that ended, a truce that ended the korean war. back in 1953. and we have new military threats from the north today. tom donnelly at the asian society the national security adviser has said that no country, including china, should conduct business as usual with a north korea that threatens its neighbors. so he and the white house are putting a lot more pressure on china to not only enforce the sanction it is went along with at the u.n. last week. but to put more pressure on north korea as only china can. >> i hope the chinese are listening. i will be in china shortly and spending some time with chib he's leadership. i hope they're listening to what

mr. donlan is saying. >> you see the sentiment starting to surface that perhaps south koreans want to have access to nuclear weaponry on their own what we want to see is north sit down and find a way to negotiate its way out of having these weapons and destabilizing the entire region. but the first thing we have to do is lower the rhetoric and make sure we're not elevating the amplitude of the rhetoric going back across the north and south dividing lines here. and secondly to intensify our training and modernization efforts to make sure we're ready to go into conflict if we have to, we hope we never have to do that. but keeping those troops trained well and exercising with our south korean allies and others in the region will be important. and finally, we have to make sure that we still reach out to the north koreans and say, as the president has said, we have an open hand that we're willing to extend to you. but we can't grab a closed fist

and what we're getting from the north is a closed fist and a lot of rhetoric which is very dangerous. it could end up in some kind of a provocation. we expect some kind of a provocation in the next several weeks or more. that they will try to test the new president. that has been the history of the north and we'll have to anticipate something will be done. we have to make sure that the response is very carefully calibrated so it doesn't get out of hand. >> bill cohen who has been there and seen this all before. thank you so much former defense secretary, thanks. and meanwhile, back in politics, is ashley judd ready it make the plunge? we'll talk all things political right ahead. [ male announcer ] here's a word you should keep in mind. unbiased. some brokerage firms are. but way too many aren't. why? because selling their funds makes them more money.

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tumulty for the "washington post" and gridiron performer and the chief congressional correspondent, chris drake. thank you very much all. karen, first to you, can you recall the president going to the republican senate and house caucuses on the hill? i remember him going in 2009 to the house republican retreat. but i don't recall him doing these caucuses before. >> no, i cannot recall it, either. i think there are a couple of things going on here. one is an apparent change in opinion on the part of the white house, that they have been a little neglectful in the kind of outreach they need to be doing in washington, if they actually want to get something done. i also think they have begun to realize that what is turning the public off entirely is just this idea that washington is this totally dysfunctional place where people can in the talk to each other at all.

and i think they want to make sure that the public kind of throws up its hands on all of this, that they're not going to be blamed for being part of that particular problem. >> i seem both amy and chris nodding at the table here. amy, first to you. >> i think that karen is exactly right. that you know some of it is about perception. and look, the president has an advantage in that he has the bully pulpit. but he has overestimated the way in which the public wants to see the bully pulpit used. you know you talk to folks on the obama campaign, post election, and you say, is this really the right way the president should be going and doing sort of these things when he was using it to campaign drastically against the sequester and how damaging it was going to be and how horrible it was going to be. and they said look the election is over, we won, they lost. it's our prerogative. and now what they forgot in all of this that was, you won and it was a pretty significant victory in terms of the electoral college and the popular vote

majority. but you didn't win the argument as much as the romney campaign lost so much of that argument. so there still was on the table a lot of frustration from voters and they weren't interested in seeing the president going out there and just pumping away. >> and chris, clearly they misjudged the impact of their sequester argument. they were going to go public around the country, do this campaign deal. but people did not respond to it. >> and you see this a little bit of the boy who cried wolf. and maybe we need to kind of back up a little bit. the white house was in a tough space, they had to decide, do we make they cuts as drastic as possible and be accused of politicizing it? or try to buffet it? they've chosen to try to buffet it a little bit. what upsets republicans on the hill is this idea that he's always out there campaigning. you have this idea that there's two different story lines. there's obama doesn't play golf. he doesn't lunch with these guys, democratic or republican on the hill. and he doesn't get to the hill. he does a couple of dinners and

it's oh like look at the olive branch, it's so amazing. what i'll be watching for is obama is obama sending his staff to talk seriously with republican staffers on the leadership level about getting a deal done? is there serious substantive talks or is it jack lew or tim geithner coming up giving a plan that they laugh at to tim geithner's face. is it more of that? or do we have serious conversations going forward that will really change the dynamic between the white house and the hill? >> i want to ask all of you, karen, first to you about ashley judd. there are lots of reports that she is seriously considering this kentucky race against mitch mcconnell even though there is video of her saying she lives in tennessee. this is an interview i did with ashley judd on the last day of democratic national convention, september 26th. >> tell me about your political activism. you're even thinking of running

for office. >> everybody is thinking about it for me. this is not an original idea. i'm at the point where so many people have asked that i feel it is honorable to at least talk about it. when the party calls, it is responsible to say i'm not sure what you see in me about this but i'll listen. >> so karen, is the party calling or is she putting herself out there? >> you know, i'm always struck. i think that celebrities tend to underestimate how difficult politics really is. i think that for any democrat to have a real shot in a state like kentucky is going to be difficult. it is going to be hard for any democrat to argue that they can do more for the state than the most senior and most powerful republican in the senate. so again, i do not know who is calling her but i do think that this is a much heavier lift

perhaps than hollywood stars are given to understand. >> and we're going to have to leave it there. so amy, and chris frates from the national journal, thank you very much. gs ] [ male announcer ] wow. a brave choice. okay, focus. think courage. think shaun white. think how perfect they'll be for outdoor crafts. mr. white. [ male announcer ] they're good for circulation. plus, they're totally practical. yeah, freedom. scan me. stride on, pale-legged, short-shorts guy. ♪ love your passat! um. listen, gary. i bought the last one. nice try. says right here you can get one for $199 a month. you can't believe the lame-stream media, gary. they're all gone. maybe i'll get one. [ male announcer ] now everyone's going to want one. you can't have the same car as me, gary! i'm gettin' one. nope!

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that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." tomorrow, we'll talk about politics and my colleague tamron hall has a look at what's next. >> great to see you coming up in the next hour. two u.s. servicemen in afghanistan kill in another so-called insider attack. it comes as afghan president hamid karzai accuses the u.s. of working with the taliban. we've got brand new reaction from the white house. plus, "time" magazine's report her join us with interesting information on how afghans believe karzai is the u.s. problem, not theirs. and can a polygraph test prove whether you're a racist? this police chief is over a small town, tennessee police

department. he thinks a lie detector test would help him select people with good moral character. is that fair to subject people to a polygraph? it is our news nation gust check. plus, candidates costing them statewide races. last election, it was todd aiken and richard murdoch. all that coming up. ...with gei! director's voice: here we go. from the top. and action for over 75 years people have saved money with gecko so.... director's voice: cut it! ...what...what did i say? gecko? i said gecko? aw... for over 75 year...(laughs. but still trying to keep it contained) director's voice: keep it together. i'm good. i'm good. for over 75...(uncontrollable lahtuger). what are you doing there? stop making me laugh. vo: geico. saving people money for over seventy-five years. gecko: don't look at me. don't look at me. will restore even skin tone? think again. introducing olay professional even skin tone. developed by experts in skin genomics

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