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the beauty of our swaying palms. and the magic of a people... ...and a place like nowhere else on earth. behold...the islands of the bahamas. time toure. don't you just love a bargain. that is a new england reference. there week the president is pushing for a grand bargain but some in his party think they're about to get a raw deal. >> it is not just the budget. the president is pushing the big agenda on guns, immigration, taxes, yada, yada, yada. that's a seinfeld reference. >> of course. we've got our special treat in the guest spot this hour. the former defense secretary william cohen on the unique challenges to the pentagon.

>> i'm krystal ball. chug hagel witnessed those changes firsthand. >> i'm defending bill clinton over the defense of marriage act. a whole new week of "the cycle" is in your life starting now. grand bargain. budget battle. spending showdown. get ready to hear those terms thrown around a lot this week in washington. senate demes are working on their first budget in four years. yeah. you heard that right. it has been four years since the senate passed a budget. in the house, republican paul ry ryan. where have i heard that name? with are appealing obama care, it is dead on arrival. what is his name? willard mitt romney? and the last time i cheg, romney

and ryan are not in the white house. i'm kidding. i didn't have to check. this time president obama is skipping the one-on-one budget negotiations that have failed before. instead, going straight to the members themselves. he is meeting this week with the entire republican and democratic caucuses from both the house and the senate. opening to find a grand bargain on taxes. spending cuts and entitlement reform with the pressure of the full sequester pressing down on them. will we finally see a grand bargain or any bargain from washington? the senior congressional reporter for politico. if the president gives in once again, on entitlement, will the dems push him? will they be upset? will they riot? revolt? or will they say, hey, our constituents aren't going to press us like republican constituents would press their lawmaker so they'll be able to survive that. >> i think the democrats will be split on this issue. you will see a fair am of re state democrats. some of the more moderate democrats. some up for election, be open

and want to push the idea of a grand bargain that would include cuts to entitlement, potentially higher revenues but there will be a significant back lash from folks on the left. a lot of liberals in both the house and the democratic caucuses who are not comfortable with what the president is proposing so far. thing like raising the medicare eligibility age, the rate of inflation so that would affect social security benefits. medicare means testing. those are measures that don't go far enough for republicans in order to even entertain the idea of revenues. if the president goes even further to cut entitlements, in order to win some republican support on taxes, you're going to see a lot of forecast on the left unhappy about this. the president has a very tough sell. not just with republicans but his own party. >> well, i'm a little confused on that point in material of what it the republicans are looking for. if we accept this whole idea

that we need a grand bargain, that's a whole other discussion whether we really do need a grand bargain. if we accept that idea, obama has actually put on paper proposals for entitlement reform. he put on paper in the run up to sequester this whole thing called cpi. it is a benefits reduction to social security. when you look back to 2011 with the whole debt sealing drama, they were talking about raising the medicare eligibility age. what is it that republicans are for him to say that he hasn't said yet or put on paper that he hasn't put on paper yet? >> those changes are not nearly as far as things that are included in the ryan budget. which will be unveiled tomorrow. that would include things that would change the way this medicare has dwelt folks 55 and un. >> are they looking for, i mean, if the bottom line for republicans is the privatization, basically the privatization, the voucherization of medicare,

that's a nonstarter from the beginning. is that what they're expecting? >> i think they want to see the president move further in that direction than he has so far. you know, a lot of these, this will be very tricky for republicans to deal with because on the one hand, they're saying very firmly that they are not going to accept any more taxes. that is something that both mitch mcconnell and john boehner has said. if the president moves even further in that direction, even further toward paul ryan, will they give anything on taxes from some of the more powerful members of the republican conference? right now there is no indication they will. i think it will be very, very hard in order to get a grand bargain, despite all this renewed optimism in washington. >> i agree with you. if the president has to go further on entitlements than he has already signaled he is willing to go, i don't think it can happen. talk about mitch mcconnell's role in all of this. the president obviously had

dinner with 12 republican senators last week. the bottom line is there will have to be some deal with leadership, meanwhile, mitch mcconnell is up for re-election. he is facing pressure from the left and the right. he is concerned about shoring up his right flank. does that make things more complicated in terms of striking a deal? >> i think that you've seen mitch mcconnell take an increasingly tough line against taxes. he was the architect of the fiscal cliff deal with vice president joe biden and that included tax increases for upper income taxpayers as well as ending the social security pay roll tax cut. since then, he said no new taxes. of course as you mentioned, that he is worried about a possible primary challenge ahead of 2014. his tough line is going to be something that will be difficult to navigate around from the white house's perspective. i talked to a bunch of the republican senators last week who met with the president. they said we'll talk with the president. we're lane to talk with the president.

this does come down to mitch mcconnell to the white house. this is something the leadership needs to negotiate with the president. so mcconnell's role at the end of the day will be very central to these negotiations. even if the white house right now seem to be trying to circumvent the leadership in washington. >> also your colleague, isaac has a piece up about obama's swing to the far left post re-election and how that's making it difficult for certain democrats in the house in districts that romney won to run again, or manning running again as moderate democrats. whether for the purpose of increasing political accord or political practicing mattism in terms of these crises out, just to make a 2014 house run easier, do you think obama might have misjudged the landscape? and maybe should have swung back toward the center instead of

toward the left to get more done? >> i think when you see the issues of gun control, really start to move. you're going to see a lot of those folks in moderates in both the house and the senate going to be a little squeamish about moving forward on some of these issues. folk even in the senate. you have moderate democratic senators from alaska, from arkansas, from louisiana, from north carolina, who are a little nervous about embracing the full extent of the president's gun control package or even a narrow portion of it. on those issues, it will be difficult. on the immigration issue it will be difficult. when we start talking about the pathway to citizenship for the nation's 11 million illegal immigran immigrants, when that starts moving forward, that's something the president will have to monitor closely. if he does get some republican buy-in like on immigration, that will help give some of those moderate democrats coverage. >> i think the flip side is that the idea of obama moving farther to the left in the second

material. when you had this sort of moment of truth on the fiscal cliff around new years, he settled for a deal without really testing his leverage on that. and one of the things that he settled for was pushing the sequester back a few months, decoupling that from the fiscal cliff deal. setting up this deadline that now has come and gone and now we're dealing with the sequester in the only way the white house sees out of that is the six-month process to finally get to a grand bargain. are you picking up on any crumbling among democrats that maybe obama should have pushed harder on the fiscal cliff to get this all resolved back then closer to the election when he had more leverage? >> i think there were some democrats who are not happy with the way the white house eventually cut the deal, including on the sequester. i think they felt they could have extended the sequester for at least a year. put up that fight for a year. instead, there was a two-month delay as you mentioned that coincided with some of these other spending fights that they feel they don't have as much lenk on. as well as some saying, hey,

look, this outreach could have happened in december. we could have dealt with this back then. get rid of this deficit issue. at least temporarily while we work on these other big ticket items. that second-guessing will certainly intensify if things start to break down. and if these budget debates eventually imperil the rest of the second term general including gun control and immigration. >> when you say obama moved to the far left, steve, when you talk about immigration, guns, marriage equality, tax fairness, these are issues that most people agree with the president on his position. so is it really moving to the far left when he is actually dealing with positions that most people agree with? isn't that more moderate actually? >> take it up with s.c. >> take it up with democrats who are talking about how worried they are. >> always happy to see you in the "a" block. another green on blue attack. afghanistan leaves americans dead. and karzai is publicly criticizing us?

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grim news as u.s. forces hand over to the afghanistan. a gunman dressed in a police uniform opened fire on u.s. groups. the latest green on blue attack. it happened in the same eastern province that afghanistan

president hamid karzai ordered them out of. the u.s. military has ignored the order. karzai is claiming the u.s. is actually working on the taliban to destabilize the country, to justify our continued presence there. newly named defense chief chuck hagel left afghanistan after canceling a joint news conference last night. he met with karzai privately. must have been quite an interesting meeting. let's spin, guys. this was sort of an embarrassing week for everyone involved. chuck hagel goes to afghanistan, his first big overseas mission. it is in the wake of an attack that happened earlier. there is another attack today. we canceled a meeting with karzai because of security fears. karzai is out telling people we canceled for a completely different reason. and karzai has been publicly throwing stones over the past few weeks. at us. and this latest implication that

we have somehow provoked these attacks in order to continue our presence there seems really irrational. but also, but also kind of i guess, calculated. to that, our general told reporters in kabul, we fought too hard over the past 12 years. we've shed too much blood over the past 12 years. we've done too much to help the afghan security forces grow over the last 12 years to think that violence and instability would be to our advantage. right. exactly. nonetheless, karzai seems to have always been the devil we know. so we've worked with him, coddled him, given him cover. it seem like despite over the past few week, and ratcheting up the rhetoric, he has accused u.s. special ops in wardak of murder and abuse. he cancel the handover of the

afghan detention center. now chuck hagel says it's cool. i get it. i was a politician once too. i understand the pressure he is under. he may be right but this is not what we need to be doing with karzai. it is time especially as we're leaving and we'll have fewer interests there, it is time for us to say, look, you have not been helpful in securing your border. you have not been working with us in good faith. you are not a good actor. >> i think this is part of the problem we've had in afghanistan from the beginning. karzai is not a good partner corrupt, et cetera. on the other side you have pakistan, also not a good partner. one of the thing that struck me having this, that karzai said, we were partnering with the taliban to create instability in the country. i mean, that is patently insane. and yet you have to think that since he is saying it, some portion of the afghan public believes that. and it underscores how different

their view of us and their view of reality is from what actually is true. which is a scary thing. and the truth is, this is political for karzai. he is trying to have it both ways. on the one has not, the big thing being negotiated is what our true presence will be after 2014. karzai wants there to be a large troop presence but he can't seem domestically like he wants their to be a large american press after 2014. he is saying one thing to his public, things that are clearly crazy. saying another thing to us and this is where we end up. >> part of why he wants there to be a large troop presence and why he is in such a tough spot, he is worried for his own life. even with the fewer american and nato troops there, the more likely that he personally will be killed and probably end up like musharraf, living in london after he is no longer president. he will fear for his life every single day. part of why the reality in afghanistan is so different than we want it to be, than we understand reality to be. most of them, shocking

statistic, don't know that 9/11 happened. this is a statistic that our producer betsy dragged up for us today. 92% of men between 15 and 30 who live in the provinces where obama sent the surge troops, did not know about 9/11. had never heard of it. so obviously, if they're living in this world that 9/11 does not exist and all these american soldiers are coming in, maybe some bombs are dropping from the sky. they're like, why is this happening? what is going on? they don't know what's going on. they don't understand. >> we say this like we're shocked. give me an example of any time in history when a foreign power has gone into afghanistan and built a government? it hasn't happen. it doesn't happen. >> a problem that they've never heard of 9/11? not wanting it maybe. >> it doesn't shock me. if you consider what the average afghan's life is like. especially in these real remote rural areas. it doesn't shock me that they would be be aware of something

in the united states, obviously everybody has heard of it. in the western world everybody has heard of it. but it underscores why no foreign power has been able to go in there and build a government. one person in the house voted against the invasion and she was vilified 11 years ago. >> it was the necessary war. >> 12 years ago when that happened. if we had that vote today it would be a little different. what hagel that, i found it to be a completely irrational explanation for what karzai is doing. it may be distasteful for to us hear what he is saying or look at the actions he is taking or not taking, but he is acting as what he is. as he politician in afghanistan who as you say is worried about his personal survival and his political survival and his political relevance. the lesson we ought to draw, if he is not shaping public opinion in afghanistan as much as reflecting it which is what politicians generally do, what does that tell you about public opinion in afghanistan? what does that tell but the taliban gets its power from

railing against the american okay paying of afghanistan. and so the longer the u.s. today's there, it almost seems, obviously we are not partnered with the taliban in any way. but we have to ask ourselves, as we look at this 2014 withdrawal, how much is our presence actually, not intentionally but helping the taliban. >> i get karzai's political posturing. i get why it has been useful for his own self-preservation. i just don't see the evidence of it being good for his people. let's not forget that should be part of the calculation, too. all right. as skrait hillary clinton faced the challenges of afghanistan firsthand, up next, life on the road with hillary. carfirmation. only hertz gives you a carfirmation. hey, this is challenger. i'll be waiting for you in stall 5. it confirms your reservation and the location your car is in,

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we're just 1338 days away from the 2016 election, which means it is time for a countdown clock. >> i agree. >> let the presidential rumor mill turn. a new poll has hillary clinton defeating paul ryan, marco rubio and chris christie. that's individually, not all together. we political pundits -- >> sure. >> it will be bigger. we love talking hypotheticals but our next guest was with secretary clinton for the previous chapter in her cheer. she traveled regularly with hillary giving the type of access that people like krystal only dream of. kim is author of "the secretary." i think that sub title speaks to you. you grew up in beirut. and then hanging out with hillary, you're out in the seat of american power.

maybe i'm realize the obvious on the air. you wrote it to come to terms with your misgivings about american power. can you talk about what you feel about american power now? i think we're at a low point in terms of the am of power we have on the global stage since between now and the end of world war ii, so now that you've been with hillary, you've seen the seat of global power, how do you feel about american power now? >> well, i think a lot of people disagree that american power is on the wane. although stories about american decline are cyclical and they return, occasionally and repeatedly, i've certainly heard those headlines and seen those headlines growing up in beirut in the '80. having grown up in beirut wondering about how much american power there is, and what are the options and the possibilities of american power and why america did things in a certain way and not in others, i've come to washington as a

report he five years ago and one thing that i have learned. i've gotten a new healthy appreciation for how difficult it is in this day and age to do your job when you're america's secretary of state and ambassador to the world. watching hillary clinton certainly brought home the challenges that american officials face as they try to maintain their country's edge as the super power. so that was one of the answers that i found. as i reported on hillary clinton as a child of war in lebanon with all those questions. >> another thing that you cover in this book is the evolution of secretary clinton's relationship with president obama. talk a little about that. >> well, of course, they were rivals on the campaign trail in 2008. they were colleagues in the senate before that. so there was some kind of working relationship that preceded the bitterness of 2008. but when they decided to work together, once he decided to

bring her on board and she said yes, they decide that had they had to be on the same team. and they put aside whatever rivalry was there even though their respective team never put aside their waryness and their mistrust of each other. but hillary clinton very much wanted to be a team player because she felt that was the best thing for the united states. and president barack obama realized in hillary clinton, he had someone who came in with ability-in global stature who could get on the plane and represent the united states and hit the ground running wherever she landed. that's what he wanted by his side. he knew that he was going to be very busy at home fixing the economy. so there was at love close collaboration. they never became chummy friends but i would describe the relationship from hillary clinton's perspective as one of loyalty. she never indicated, certainly not in public, that there was any, that there were any differences between her and the president. >> and there has been some

criticism that she might have relied on the white house too heavily. there is a post-up on the run in 2016 in which he discusses mf those criticisms from her time at state. and he says that some sources have put, putting benghazi aside, she didn't have an appetite for the heavy lifting big ticket items like iran's nuclear program. the s.t.a.r.t. treaty and really preferred to leave that to the white house. and so she could sort of be more of a diplomat there. did you find that to be the case at all? >> you know, there are a lot of different perceptions. how she performed on the job. and her critics will point out that indeed she doesn't have very tangible achievements that she can hold up and say these are the peace agreements we reached. in an interview with her toward the end of her tenure for the bbc, i asked her whether she

agreed with her critics that she had been an inconsequential secretary of state. she said that's a very narrow way of looking at the secretary of state in this day and age. power is a very diffuse and it is a full-time job. it is a daily effort and i detail that in my book. she said it is important to remember where the united states was in 2008. there was a question of credibility on the international stage and the financial crisis which led a lot of people to wonder whether the u.s. was in decline. what she and president obama have done over the last four years was try to reassert leadership. you will hear criticism in places like the middle east for example, that there isn't enough american leadership at the moment. that's an amazing contrast to the days of the bush administration when people were up in arms about too much forceful american leadership. so it is all about perception.

it is those perception that's i try on explain in the book. i bring my own perspective to the narrative in this story. >> well, kim, they've been hands off the administration and clinton as secretary of state when it comes to the middle east. i remember as you're saying, when she was appointed, in 2008, '09, it was informally sole as american prestige in the world has taken a dip in the last eight years. with allies, with countries around the world. she has a very unique standing to patch up these relations and deliver the mention, whatever has been keeping us apart for the last eight years, that is not operative anymore. beyond the middle east, how do you think she fared on that front? >> very briefly, i think that her critics are right to point out that she did not go all in into the middle east peace negotiations. president obama raised hopes and expectations very high in the

first term effort on movie east peace negotiations really didn't go anywhere. but i think she made a politician's choice not to stake her reputation on what is really seen as a thankless task. it is very difficult to quantify exactly how the u.s. is perceived today around the world. but there does seem to be enough evidence there that because the tone of the diplomats, the tone of the foreign policy has changed, there is more willingness to collaborate with the united states. whether it is allies or rivals. there will always be tensions. you're just now about hamid karzai. that is an issue for the united states when you have someone who is supposed to be your ally speak the way he did. though will always be there. there will never be a time when the u.s. is going to be universally loved. i think that is the fate of the super power. you are loved and to some extent resented. often in equal measures. it is a continuous job that you have to do. i think that hillary clinton with her relentless public

diplomacy, did manage to connect with people around the world on some level that we hadn't seen before. history will tell whether it is successful or not. but both she and president obama certainly believed that that was the way to go forward for the united states. and it is all coming under the heading of smart power. >> all right. kim ghattas, thank you for being here. the faithful worldwide will be watching this chimney tomorrow as the conclave to elect a new pope begins. remember, black smoke means no pope. white smoke means get ready to meet the new pontiff. that's bad for black smoke. several are starting to emerge as the cardinals enter into conclave. the new question is, will the new pope come from europe? tim is hopeful but picking probably not.

probab probably scola. they are seeking to reform the church. scola is phone for his social advocacy. make sure you like us on facebook. up next, perhaps the only force powerful enough to take on the gun lobby and win america's mobs. -hi i'm terry. -i'm phyllis.

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when it come to guns, we know that nothing is ever easy. but just as mothers against drunk driving fundamentally altered that national debate, can mom personal touch get congress to act. mom can be pretty convincing. joining us now, shannon watts. foundert of the appropriately name grassroots group. thank you for being with us. i was hoping you could talk about your inspiration to start this group. is this your first convenient you are into advocacy and activism or have you done this before? and how is the evolution of the group been going? >> i am what i would refer to as an accidental activist. i never did this in 90 entire life. i was a stay at home mom for five years until sandy hook. that really changed everything for so many moms to have 20 elementary school students shot

down. some 11 times each in the sanctity of their elementary school. it was a changing bell for everyone. we are spending 15 hours a day as volunteers to try to make a difference and to tell our legislators at the federal and state level that we are not going to rest until there are stronger gun laws in place in this country. >> let's talk about the push for new gun laws. obviously there is a whole package that will ultimately reach congress in a few weeks and we'll see what happens. my sense is when you talk to people in washington, people pushing for this, what they're saying is the assault weapons ban being proposed, that probably won't happen. limits on high capacity clips, that probably won't happen. what they seem to be focusing on is this universal back ground idea. the whole private sale loophole where 40% of the guns are purchased, doing away with that. if that is something that happens this year, how significant do you think that

would be to get that one piece of legislation through? i think it is extremely significant. we are not going to rest until we not only have background checks, we have some kind of regulation to track ammunition. right now you can buy thousands of rounds of ammunition with absolutely no proof of moich, unlike sudafed. we'll be happy if that happens. we'll be back in the mid-term and back again after that. this is something that we'll fight day to day until we get some common sense changes to our laws. >> i was looking at your website. the actions that your group is calling for, banning so-called assault weapons that hold more than ten rounds. you want background checks. you want report sale of ammo and ban online sales. and weakening at the state

level. i'm wondering, if your group is also concerned with mental health issues. i'm thinking about newtown and this was a very sick young man who notton killed children but also his own mother. are moms concerned about mental health or just gun in. >> absolutely. there are a lot of reasons this country is so violent. whether you're looking at hollywood or not video game or the mental health system. there are a lot of thing that need to be addressed. what we can do now and what moms demand action for gun sense in america is focused on are changing the gun laws. that is our sole focus at the federal and state level. there are some very easy fixes that can be done quickly. we will no longer sit by and allow our members of congress to turn their backs on common sense legislation. it is absolutely unbelievable that the nra has been allowed to drive these laws so long. not just congress but our state legislatures. that is our focus. >> we welcome you to this

legislation. changing that conversation, so you have a chance to do. that i noticed within the gun conversation, the gun rights people want to make it, what i am a supposed to do when a criminal bursts in with a gun. if it was more honest and based around the fact women are far more likely to be killed by a gun in the hand of an intimate partner. a husband, a lover, a friend, than by a stranger with any implement at all. if we knew that fact, then we would have a much more honest gun conversation. >> that's absolutely right. you know, we are not about banning all guns or changing the second amendment. but what we are about is making sure that this idea of where we have shields over our schools and our kids to go school with bullet proof backpacks and every one is armed and the bad guys shoot it out with the good guys over our kids' heads. that is not going to happen in this country. we're awake now and we are going to fight for common sense gun

laws as long it is a takes. >> i know it is not easy to put yourself in a public spotlight and take on a big issue like this. if more people did it, the country would be better. thank you so much for your activism. >> thank you. up next, if you thought former defense secretary william cohen was out to change the world, you haven't met his wife. love your passat! um. listen, gary. i bought the last one. nice try. says right here you can get one for $199 a month. you can't believe the lame-stream media, gary. they're all gone. maybe i'll get one. [ male announcer ] now everyone's going to want one. you can't have the same car as me, gary! i'm gettin' one. nope! [ male announcer ] volkswagen springtoberfest is here and there's no better time to get a passat. that's the power of german engineering. right now lease one of four volkswagen models for under $200 a month. visit vwdealer.com today.

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otherworldly things. but there are some things i've never seen before. this ge jet engine can understand 5,000 data samples per second. which is good for business. because planes use less fuel, spend less time on the ground and more time in the air. suddenly, faraway places don't seem so...far away. ♪ we're back now in a special guest spot with former defense

secretary and his wife. she has written a play about two martyrs. frank was captured. she died a year later in a concentration camp. and emmett was brutally beaten and shot to death by two white men in 1955, mississippi. he was accused of flirting with a white woman. the stories unfolded a year apart from each other but contain a common thread. first, janet, congratulations on the play and i have to say growing up in massachusetts, i have some memories of you on tv in boston so it is nice to meet you through tv like this. >> well, thank you, thank you. i'm enjoying your show. >> what inspired you to write this play? >> it was actually ann frank and emmett till. i've known these two entities my whole life. like most americans in school, i learned and read the diary of anne frank and learned about

man's inhumanity to man. and i learn about he willett till who went to police miss to visit his relatives. because he whistled at a white woman, he was murdered. and i thought of these two characters when i wrote my memoir from rage to reason. my life in two americas. a friend of mine said, janet, why do you want to talk about growing up in segregated america? inthat was part of my life. he said that would be so unbecoming of you to bring that up. and i wondered, what would anne frank say to emmett till? here are these two teen martyrs. what would they say to each other? even though they're disparity carings, they had so much in common. i hope the play goes to broadway but i would be delighted if it lives in the classroom. i wrote it for students. i think there's a lot these two teenagers could still say to us. >> secretary, we have a lot of questions for you.

janet, i want to put one more to you about this play. i find it really fascinating. this historical fiction. imagining anne frank talking to emmett till. go deep entire the commonalities and what are the things they don't understand about each other? >> the commonality that's. >> reporter: the tactics. their respective oppressors used against them. in nazi europe, when they walk on the street they had to wear patches. in apartheid america, black people don't have to wear patches because the pigmentation shows up. but they could not look them in the eye. the same in this country. when the jewish people could go to the movie houses, to the theater, they would have to sit in the balcony. the same for black people in this country in the south and the early days when we went to the theaters, we would have to sit up in the balcony. there were curfews for jewish people in nazi europe them couldn't be on the street after 8:00 at night.

in this country, there were sun down rules for black people. we couldn't be in certain areas without a passport. so those are things i think a lot of people knew but hadn't connected that. and the thing that i want them to learn from each other, no matter what back ground you come from, each history has some struggle in it. we can learn from that. the message of the play is the call to action. to call young people and older people to do something when you see bullies, when you see racism, ant semiat this. when you see people who have prejudices against people because of their preferences. speak up and say something because equal people can only prevail when good people do nothing. >> do you think, i was thinking about matthew sheppard as i was reading about this play, a young man brutally murdered at 21 years old for being gay and inspired the prevention act.

would he fit into this story as a modern day version? >> absolutely. when i was workshoping the shep. i testified on capitol hill to expand hate crimes legislation to include orientation. at the beginning of the play, anne & emmett meet in a place called memory and emmett comes on the scene. she says, who are you? he says, who are you? then they have their conversation and then it ends and it starts all over again the same way. they're inquiring who the other is because they have to have this conversation until we get it right. and when they do this, at the end when they recur with this, who are you, a young white boy walk onto the stage. they look at him and say together, who are you? and he says, matthew. matthew shepherd. so he is included. >> secretary, i want to make a hard turn, if we can, and i want to take this opportunity -- >> light turn.

>> -- to ask you foreign policy questions, of course. if you look around the world right now, hostilities are ratcheting up in a number of different theaters. iran, syria is a mess. there's practically a popup al qaeda shop in mali now. i'm wondering how different, maybe it's not very different at all, how different the world is now than the one you left in 2001 as secretary of defense? >> well, it's become more complicated to be sure. the world is more turbulent than it has been. i think also with the spread of information, technology now being in the hands of virtually anyone, technology has miniatureized, shrunken the world so that it's a very small ball now spinning faster and faster. you have a lot of turbulence. a lot of discontent. and you have information that now travels at the speed of light. so you have people who are educated, let's say egypt by way of example. young population. some of them, many of them,

quite highly educated with no jobs so they're in the street. they're very unhappy with their election results, with president morsi at this point in terms of what he's trying to do. so it's a more complicated world, and also we have a diminished capacity to influence it and shape the world as, in ways that are advantageous to us as we have had in the past. we don't have a mubarak, well, we have somebody else who now, quote, is elected, but how is that election going to turn out? we have one vote, one time, in egypt. one man, one vote, one time. so i think it's more complicated. it requires a lot more sensitivity on our part before we commit ourselves to a military engagement, we need to understand if you take step one, what's three, four and five before you take that first step? and i think to president obama's credit, he's been very reluctant to commit us to more engagements until such time as we know who's with us, is that a mission that can be accomplished, at what

cost and how to we get out? we're trying to find out, how to we get out now in afghanistan and do it in a way that still continues to help stabilize the region and has our allies with us to the extent that we have a presence after 2014? >> all right. secretary cohen, you're a lucky man. i was about to grill you on the state of republican party. we're out of time. >> thank you. >> thanks so much for joining us. up next, a little straight talk on politics, courage and marriage, departed style. >> how is your wedding coming along? >> great. great. she's a doctor. >> that's outstanding. >> yeah. >> marriage is an important part of getting ahead. lets people now you're not [ bleep ]. married guy seems more stable. people see the ring and think, somebody must be able to stand the [ bleep ]. ladies see the ring, they think, you must have cash and you must work. >> that's working, overtime. ands to a new e-trade retirement account.

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man or woman, straight or gay, whatever. the test ought to be, i believe in the constitution, the bill of rights, and the declaration of independence. >> activists have the room, to be pure and absolute. but governing requires compromise. compromise often disappoints the activists and sometimes disappoints the governors, themselves. that's part of why on friday we saw the rare scene of a president urging the striking down of a law he signed. when i sign the bill, president clinton wrote, in the "washington post" about the defense of marriage act, quote, i included a statement with the admonition that enactment of this legislation should not despite the fierce and at times