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welcome back at the top of the show. we asked you why are you awake? producer john tower has a bit of an answer for us. >> it's the chimney at the vatican is the second most famous chimney. people want to know what's the number one? >> america had such faith in your cultural literacy. the chimney many mary poppins. the papal thing, very big, but not as big as poppins. at least from my point of view. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ . look, if you want to lose weight, don't eat. that's the answer. >> you're right. >> this is not medicine, it's thermal dynamics. you take in more than you use, you store it. >> it's engineered, the taste, the sweetness, the saltiness,

the amount of pressure one needs to crack a potato chip with their teeth has all been engineered so people can continue to eat that kind of food. >> as long as you don't ban cheese-its. cheez-its are okay. that's my addiction. >> all right. good morning, it is -- can i have that microphone? >> what's going on. >> it's tuesday, march 12th. welcome to "morning joe." with us onset, we have msnbc and "time" magazine senior political analyst mark haleprin, former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve rattner, and in washington, we have nbc chief foreign affairs correspondent and host of "andrea mitchell reports," andrea mitchell. wait, one more. >> not yet. what's going on? >> what do you mean? >> it's a huge story. >> i can't wait to get to it. >> yeah, is jon meacham here? >> yeah. we have -- >> i want to know the historical context. >> well, there are historical implications on our society that

you all don't have the foresight to see. hopefully meacham won't make fun of this. pulitzer prize winning historian jon meacham. >> no chance. >> not since william howard taft has there been more important -- >> there it is. 6:01. a taft reference. >> you're going to be talking about it soon. >> a lot to talk about this morning. our top story, though, is about big, sugary sodas. they came out on top yesterday. the decision came as a blow to mayor michael bloomberg who pushed for the law as an outspoken advocate for the prevention of obesity. >> yeah. >> in his decision, the judge called the law arbitrary and capricious saying the city had interpreted the board of health's power so broadly it would create a quote administrative laviathin.

theater owners who serve popcorn so full of salt it'll kill you and these big drinks and become sick -- >> the beverage association also -- >> look at this, the american beverage association is relieved because they can continue to make money poisoning people. >> can i just ask -- >> look, let me help everybody out. even sarah palin tweeted. >> oh, i was going to ask willie. >> victory in new york city for liberty-loving soda drinkers to politicians with too much time on their hands, we say government stay out of my refrigerator. please. >> exactly. >> nothing to do with -- >> please. wow. >> that's all right. my refrigerator. if you don't want them in your refrigerator, why do you want them in your bedroom. what's the "new york post" saying, that's really -- >> this man speaks for new yorkers everywhere. >> pour it on. >> look at that face. look at that face.

all right. so let's not make too much light of this. >> no, because it's actually a really serious issue. >> let's get the constitutional ramifications. let's go over to our flash cam. >> yeah. >> and see -- >> lewis. >> oh, my gosh. >> lewis, what are the implications for this? >> oh, joe, the constitutional implications are just remarkable. >> remarkable. >> oh, my god. >> i didn't know this was "the daily show." >> thank you, lewis. >> do you know the mayor very well. >> leave the studio. >> how upset was the mayor? >> the mayor, oh, go ahead. no, i'd like to hear. did he break some of his golf clubs? what did he do? >> no -- >> full disclosure, i manage his money. i saw him yesterday and he was very philosophical about it. this is exactly the same thing that happened with the calorie counts as you remember in the fast food restaurants, overturned by the lower court, it was a federal court, but

ultimately he won on appeal. and now you have those calorie counts in the affordable care act and they're going to exist all over the country. >> yay. all right. hey, willie, what did you think about lewis? how did he pull that off? >> he looked good. >> yeah. >> i'm not sure his line -- >> was believable? >> i thought he maintained his normal level of dignity. >> lewis -- >> you don't think -- it's leaking on him now. are you saying lewis does not understand. he is wrestling the cap and the cap is winning. all right. get the camera off him. most new yorkers, come on -- the kids on the street love you. most new yorkers agree with this judge. don't tell us what to drink. >> actually -- >> well, i think most new yorkers agree with the judge on the arbitrary part, which is if you sit in a restaurant, you can't have more than 16 ounces, but if you go to the 7-eleven, you can have 72 ounces or whatever it is. the arbitrary part made it so

silly you could get a refill and refill. >> that was a function of the authority of the board of health. convenience stores can only regulate -- >> i think the mayor's intent, by the way, is great. trying to get people healthier. it's a difficult law to apply. >> well, sat some point, there will be, unfortunately, a clamp down on the restaurant industry and the beverage industry just much like the cigarette industry, and they will wear a black hat at some point just like the cigarette industry does because legal action will continue. until they are brought down. until they stop putting sugar, salt, and terrible fats into our food and making them addictive. and the science is coming along here. the science is coming along. it's going to catch up with people like the mayor who are already there and on the cutting edge of the story. >> and don't forget -- >> you should write a book about this. >> i am. >> he could win on appeal. this isn't over. >> i hope it does. >> that's the point. that's how he was. he's very philosophical.

he's been here before. >> right. >> he will appeal it and he will fight it. h he doesn't win every single thing he does. >> and you know what, they were taking it seriously, coke was putting posters up, describing the sizes, the portion size. some restaurants started serving fresh squeezed juices instead of the sugary drinks. and other companies -- >> that's disgusting. >> smaller cups. it's not like they were laughing at what mayor bloomberg was doing. they were scared. he lost this round, but they know there are more court cases to come and they are trying so hard to get ready. but i don't know if it's going to happen. i think they're going to actually be brought down in court. and you know what, don't be mad at me about that. >> i'm not. >> be mad at the fact that you buy this stuff and these companies feel they have to produce poison for your and your children. >> come on. stop it. i think i've given you enough lead here. now reel it back in on this.

>> i'm saying it's killing us, it's killing our children. it's liquid sugar and sugar is poison. >> first of all, it's not killing us, it's not killing our children -- >> you don't think the obesity crisis is not killing us? >> i think it's horrific. i think a lot of things are doing it. i drink coca-cola, soft drinks, i eat captain crunch, trix and i ran it all off by 10:00 in the morning. don't say this stuff is killing us. it's the lack of activity combined with people sitting on the couch instead of going out and playing all day, they're playing video games on the couch. >> with the big gulp. >> that's fine. let me tell you, i drank so much coke growing up -- >> you also did two adays as a football player. >> that's all right, though. you're making my point. it's not the poison. coca-cola is not the poison and these other soft drinks aren't the poison, it's the lack of activity. we've all changed, our kids have changed.

much better to get your kids up off the couch than painting coca-cola and other soft drinks what they're not. they're not the poison. but if you sit on your couch all day and you eat and you don't do anything, then, yes, it's going to have a negative impact. >> actually, i just have to counter. >> don't overspeak on these things we've all been eating for 50 years and we don't need -- you know what, i would much rather mike bloomberg -- he's got power over the schools, why doesn't he force schools to have hour long p.e. and run them hard. run the kids hard. >> because these foods actually are toxic, the way they are made, if i may finish, i contend that you're making an incorrect statement by saying these things aren't poison. >> they're not poison. >> they are. when you have such high concentrations of sugar and high fructose corn syrup and salt and fats in foods. >> hold on, keep the camera right here. she's talking this is important. go ahead, i'm sorry.

>> they create an addictive -- >> oh, man. >> this was not set up. >> and i bet you can't stop. >> i eat this every morning. >> i bet you couldn't put those aside if i asked you to, if i asked you to. those are so full of sugar and fat and trigger a reward mechanism in the brain that makes you not able to stop at one. >> that's why i have them every morning. >> these are the healthy ones, no jelly in the middle. >> i know you want to talk about the budget. >> no, i want to talk about this. >> this affects our economy. >> i agree with you. >> we're all so fat that our health care system is being ruined and brought down by this. can you imagine? >> so, actually, we can bring this back to the budget because -- >> can we talk about afghanistan -- >> something like a quarter of what we spend on medicare is to deal with conditions like diabetes that come the fact that americans drink twice as much soda as any other country. >> i'm not saying the obesity

crisis isn't a huge problem, it's a big budget problem, but please, don't blame what people eat. you've got to look at the whole thing wholistically and that's what willie and i always say, wholistically. >> people have too many calories in this country. >> by the way, i've got blueberries. don't even think about it. i've got blueberries too. >> balanced diet. >> we have a couple of other stories that are -- >> yogurt -- >> that's good. >> this one -- >> pure sugar. >> i'll end on saying this. before you criticize me for my opinions, give me a better solution. take a look around in this country and give me a better solution. and if you think this isn't bringing us down and it will not end up in the courts just like cigarettes -- >> come on. >> you're wrong. after more than 11 years of war, we're once again reminded that american lives are at stake in afghanistan every day. yesterday marked the deadliest day of the year for u.s. forces in the still dangerous country where when two separate events took the lives of seven american

troops. a helicopter crash in southern afghanistan killed five u.s. service members. there were no reports of enemy activity in the region at the time of the crash. but an official investigation is underway. earlier in the day, two u.s. special operations personnel were among those killed during an insider attack at an american outpost in eastern afghanistan. the attacker opened fire before being killed in what became a fire fight. according to the associated press, there have been 12 u.s. troop deaths in the country so far this year. in 2012, 297 u.s. service members were killed while serving in afghanistan. andrea mitchell, i'll let you take it from here. as we move forward because also hamid karzai is jumping into the conversation too, which is a little bit troubling. >> exactly. well, this has been ten years with hamid karzai, but this has really gone off the rails. it was the first visit as pentagon chief of chuck hagel. and the whole visit was

overshadowed by karzai's misbehavior. yes, he's playing to a local audience, his own political problems, but for him to suggest to the defense secretary that the u.s. is colluding with the taliban to extend the war and keep the american presence longer than 2014, when actually he for his own survival needs those troops there and does need to negotiate this long lasting agreement despite his denials for additional residual american troops, it's simply outrageous and it's not going to -- of budget cuts and sequesters. there is no way that congress is going to put up with this very much longer and i think it's only going to hasten the withdraw timetable. so it's in the american interests according to the administration and democrats and republicans to have some sort of hold on afghanistan because of what's happening mostly in pakistan. but this is not going to fly. >> you know, mark haleprin, this is why what rand paul did this

past week, even though it was on another issue, drones, i think that's why -- i think afghanistan, which we've been talking about now for four years, tripling of troops there, changing of the mission there. going from an anti-terror campaign to an antiinsurgency campaign, this is one more example of how we need a republican party filled with realists that aren't going to give both parties a blank check to fight both wars. >> well, it's caught up in budget discussions, as well. you see there's cost savings here. this president and chuck hagel and john kerry as a group, skeptical of any other type of american troops on the ground. i think the president hopes to, obviously, and plans to go the four years without extending the american military presence on the ground, overseas and scale down this war and hopefully never again puts united states in a position where we have an ally, i say with air quotes in

my voice, like karzai. who is not dependable and at this stage with all the loss of american life, all the money the united states has spent still saying outrageous things. >> and willie, it bears reminding people here that this is the same karzai who said a few years ago he could side with the taliban. >> he's thinking about joining up with the taliban. jon meacham, over the last few days, we've had a couple of suicide bombings, there was an insider attack yesterday that killed two american servicemen. one of them a green beret. seems like every day we get a reminder of the horror of afghanistan. i guess the question is now, once we do leave whether it's an accelerated timetable as andrea suggests or, in fact, the end of 2014, what do we take away from afghanistan that maybe we should've taken away from vietnam before we went into afghanistan? >> this is one of those tragic cases where the lessons were clear from the beginning. i think we knew from the historic experience of other

imperial powers in afghanistan it was an incredibly difficult terrain. it's barely a country in many ways. one of the things about karzai is i remember back in 2001 people saying, you know, we know we can't buy a war lord, but the problem is in afghanistan, you can't even rent them. and that's true of karzai in many ways. and so i think this will be studied forever. i hope it's studied forever in terms of a mission defining a mission more clearly. and the idea that we have to sit here in 2013 and make such an obvious, painfully obvious point after the experience of vietnam, after the experience of the british and the russians in afghanistan is really painful and i think that it's something i know the war colleges and you talk to folks at west point, intellectually all the military science gets this. and yet somehow or another, there's a gulf between what people understand intellectually

as the problems with this kind of war and what ends up happening in realtime. and that's the tragic gap. >> and the tragic gap has made even more tragic by the fact we could've seen this coming. starting in 2009, we talked about what a disaster it would be to double down. i bring this up right now because jon meacham is here. and in 2009, jon meacham said, do not turn this war from an antiterror campaign to an anti-insurgency campaign without understanding the lessons of the past. and the president decided to triple the number of troops. and again, tried to rebuild a country that wasn't even built in the first place. and it's been costing us $2 billion a week. >> i can't find anybody who thinks we should be still doing that. >> unless they're in washington. >> right. let's go to washington. both chambers of congress are doing something they rarely do at the same time and that is work on a budget. >> wow.

>> this morning house budget chair paul ryan is previewing his blue p print via the "wall street journal". it calls for no new taxes and scales back spending increases to 3.4% a year instead of the current rate of 5%. that would bring savings of 4.6 trillion over the next decade. the plan, similar to the one that the house passed last year would open up u.s. land for petroleum exploration. repeal the president's health care plan, reduce welfare spending and fundamentally change the tax code to just two brackets. ryan's plan would also overhaul medicare and medicaid mirroring the romney platform from 2012. the plan would allow seniors to buy private insurance or stick with medicare. the federal government was subsidized premiums and medicaid would become a block grant program. on the other side of the capital, president obama meets with senate democrats today. tomorrow democratic senators are expected to release their budget

plans, something the party hasn't done in nearly four years. the washington post reports the democrats' proposal would raise almost $1 trillion in new taxes while cutting $1 trillion in spending, marrying the two plans won't be easy and then, of course, the president is expected to announce his budget request in april, two months behind schedule. >> the president has always believed the deficit reduction is not a goal unto itself. the whole purpose should be part of an overall policy objective of strengthening the economy, having it grow faster, having it create more and better jobs for the middle class. and that's the president's objective and that's why he has always going back to when he first took office making sure the proposals he's put forward keep the number one objective in mind, which is economic growth and job creation. not deficit reduction solely for the purpose of reducing the deficit. >> andrea mitchell, regular order breaking out in washington, d.c. this is how it used to happen where you'd have the house pass

a budget, which they've done every year, and the senate pass a budget which they haven't done in four years, looks like they're going to do it. and maybe for once we'll have two competing visions in congress and they can debate it out and let the american people decide. >> can you believe it? regular order and back to business is the way it was supposed to be done. the one thing i would say about paul ryan's budget, and we know, you know, how hard he works on this and how much credibility he has among house republicans. but as chris wallace said to him on fox on sunday, repealing obama care is not going to happen. and so his baseline is based on certain savings assumptions on a completely different medical system. and that was all decided in the election. so a fundamental part of that house budget is not realistic. but despite the fact these are competing proposals, we haven't seen patty murray's senate proposal yet. despite the fact there's no sort

of common ground here on basic principles. there is a senate and house version, and they can talk about it and eventually maybe the white house in april late will come out with its proposal. >> no doubt about it and i'm glad the republicans put a budget on the floor that are going to put a budget on the floor that repeals obama care because that's our vision. that's the republican party's vision of, you know, i think most republicans believe obama care was flawed, that it's going to cost us a lot more money down the road than -- than was originally advertised. and, again, that's as dead on the arrival no doubt at the end of the day -- >> poison pill. >> no, it's not a poison pill, republicans' vision, they're laying that out. something the democrats have been too cowardly to do in the senate under harry reid's leadership. they've been too cowardly to do it for four years. let them put their plan out. they're going to ask for way too

many taxes. democrats love raising taxes and i can say that's a poison pill, but it's not. democrats love raising taxes. that's what they do, the first instinct is to raise taxes on americans. so let them put that plan out and we'll debate it. i'm quite comfortable if the democrats in the senate start showing a little bit of courage. really, it's the leadership. like tom coburn said, it's really harry reid. if they show a little bit of courage and put out their own blueprint and they'll be asking for a lot more taxes. democrats love raising taxes. then let's have the debate and let americans decide. i'm quite comfortable that'll probably work out very well for the republican party. >> i don't think so. coming up on "morning joe" -- i'm going to leave it there. >> you can afford to pay a lot more -- >> now, stop it. >> because you're in the 11% tax bracket.

>> oh, gosh. >> no, we all can afford to pay more taxes, there are a lot of works class americans that can't. a lot of middle class americans that can't. small business owners that can't. >> i was restrained -- >> not going to choose the spending part of the budget -- >> i think you're right. and we'll debate. >> yes, we will. senator claire mccaskill will be with us also debbie wasserman-schultz. up next, the top stories and this morning's "politico" playbook, but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. >> a guy who does not pay 11% on his taxes. >> i don't pay any. good morning, everyone, here's what we're looking at. up and down i-95 from boston down to florida, you are in the rain this morning. we do expect travel delays as you drive to work today. and the airlines as we go throughout the day. we're not yet seeing the rain totally moving up through connecticut and new england, but

it will shortly. right now the rain has begun around new york city, it's raining pretty steadily in the philadelphia region, back through allentown and harrisburg, d.c. to baltimore, you're going to be driving in the rain all morning long. in d.c., you're going to end some time around noon or 1:00 today. at least you won't have to drive home in the rain. but philadelphia and new york city, it'll be ending during the evening rush hour. first down i-95, it goes right down to north carolina, through south carolina, the rain is beginning to taper off in georgia, savannah, probably another hour or two of that. we're also watching chilly temperatures back in the midwest today. but not in the northeast. we're melting a ton of that snow. and that's good. temperatures in the 50s near 60 even in new york city. this is the warmest it's going to get, though, for the east coast. all the cold air in the northern plains and that'll sweep across the country. the forecast if you're on the southern half of the country, enjoy it. if you're right along the east coast, a soggy morning commute. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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all right. time now to take a look at the morning papers. from our parade of papers, the dallas morning news, the white house is demanding china halt hacking operations that have plagued networks in the u.s. china has denied that its military has been involved in the attacks calling the claims a politically motivated smear campaign. the detroit free press, disgraced former mayor kwame kilpatrick was convicted on 24 counts of extortion, bribery, and racketeering. >> is that good? >> not good. the investigation began ten years ago when a homeless shelter donated money in exchange for a political favor. kilpatrick faces up to 20 years in prison. >> well, at least neighboring illinois knows how to take care of business a little better there. the "chicago tribune," the securities and exchange

commission has charged the state of illinois with fraud. the sec alleges the state misled bond investors over the health of the pension plan from 2005 to 2009. >> it find that hard to believe. >> the state neither admitted nor denied the accusations. there are no immediate consequences for the state. >> leave him alone. >> what? who? >> he's already locked up. >> he's a great american. >> freedom fighter. >> he is a freedom fighter and you know what, willie, he's in jail right now why? because he tried to give health care to little children. >> little kids. >> cared too much. is that a crime? >> jon meacham, is loving children a crime? >> i want to ask willie because he's kind of the boswell of that story. >> thank you. >> how is -- how is the ghandi-like writing going? have you seen any pages? >> it's more dr. king letter from a birmingham jail, that's what we're getting out of the federal lock-up. >> we're ready out here. >> how about the newark star

ledger. add another group to the list of people opposed to the tsa's relaxed rule on knives, golf clubs and more. a spokesman for the tsa employees union says the new rules will only slow down lines while agents check the length of blades. >> why are you letting people take knives on the planes? i don't understand. the "new york times" -- >> any stories about -- >> yes. >> why? i don't understand. why are we doing this, steve rattner? why are we letting knives, people bring knives on planes? >> mini knives. >> knives are knives. >> yeah. >> got no answer. >> i mean, come on, would you rather somebody come at you with a knife or a box cutter? >> okay. one more story. the "new york times," a new study shows most women with ovarian cancer don't get sufficient care and don't receive treatments that could add as much as a year on to their lives. the study says most women are diagnosed at hospitals that have little experience treating the disease with the complex treatments it requires.

22,000 new cases are diagnosed every year in the u.s., but mostly at an advanced stage requiring aggressive treatment. "usa today," you may be revealing key information about yourself by the items you like on facebook. they predict personal details. they were able to distinguish everything from race to gender to sexual orientation with a high degree of accuracy. indicators of intelligence were people who like thunderstorms -- >> oh. >> the "colbert report," science, and curly fries. >> what the --? >> indicators of lower iqs, people who like sephora and lady antebellum. >> i love lady antebellum. >> there we go. >> what's their song again that's really great? >> and i need you now. they're great, man. come on. what do you mean? who comes up with that?

>> it's a feel good hit of the year. >> i love that song. >> it's no "call me maybe." >> the research proves your theory that you've held for years, curly fries make you smart. >> they do. you know who needs to eat a lot more curly fries? >> who, joe? >> jim vandehei. >> jim vandehei. >> he's more of a waffle fry guy. >> he is. and, again, you like waffle fries. not that smart. go ahead. >> jim, of course, the executive editor at politico. how are you? >> never better. >> what kind of fry? >> i like the nice, thin crispy fry. >> the mcdonald's. >> mcdonald's fry is a good fry. >> who is better? >> mika doesn't like them. >> who is better than mcdonald's? does anybody make a better -- >> in and out burger is pretty good. >> than mcdonald's? >> they're doing the potatoes fresh right before your eyes. >> it's overrated.

>> i love mcdonald's fries. >> yeah, mcdonald's fries. >> i don't understand why burger king didn't just make mcdonald's fries. >> why don't they rip it off? come on. >> all right, jim, let's get back to business. house republicans pushing back against john boehner's decision to bring bills to the house floor without a majority of support from his party that breaks the so-called rule. >> why it matters is if you can't get a majority of house republicans behind an idea, republicans are saying don't ever have a vote on it because they control the house. where it could come into play would be if we really do try to revive talk of a grand bargain, it would require some tax increase and there are not a majority of house republicans that will vote for a tax increase. they had to when they violated the rule at the end of last year and conservatives are saying never again. they don't like doing it on spending bills, tax bills. if conservatives continue to force the issue and i think a majority of the conference wants

to force this issue, it'll make it a lot harder to do anything that would get democratic votes because the bulk of house republicans are very conservative on taxes and spending and don't want to cut a deal with democrats. >> will this change ultimately? >> well, there's nothing you write into law to change it. it's an unspoken rule about how you're going to govern. he says i'm not bringing anything to the floor because i'm the speaker and republicans are in control. why would i seed my power to democrats? boehner has violated that rule several times and gotten into trouble with conservatives who think that why win the majority if you can't use majority to squash ideas you don't want going to the house floor? and i think that's where it would come into play. and i think increasingly, there's measure on john boehner to not cut deals. it's the reason he's going through regular order, which basically means it's going to be really hard to get any kind of bipartisan compromise on budget in taxes. he has a tight hold, i think now on his speakership, but there

are a lot of conservatives who continue to think he's too squishy on the core issues. >> huh. >> real quick, a lot of boehner supporters pointed that hastert violated the hastert rule. >> providing aid during a disaster, not being part of providing that aid, but they can't get a majority of their members to do it so they end up holding their nose and doing something because they think it's better for maybe the country but certainly for the party not to be blocking that. and that's why hastert had to violate it and why boehner will continue to have to violate it. >> jim vandehei, thanks so much. >> take care, we'll see you later. >> eat more curly fries. coming up next, how about this -- >> my iq is falling by the second. let's listen to this. >> no, curly fries are good for your iq. >> that's what i hear. >> it's a great song, man. >> lady antebellum. >> i don't know who did that study. it's a great song.

♪ >> you like this song? >> you heard this song? >> never. >> come on. >> what song is this? >> lady antebellum. >> where have you been the past five years or year and a half. >> it's filled with -- >> willie, what's next? >> well, this is interesting, the jets' new offensive coordinator is standing by his man saying mark sanchez will be under center. we'll have that and more -- [ kitt ] you know what's impressive? a talking car. but i'll tell you what impresses me. a talking train. this ge locomotive can tell you exactly where it is, what it's carrying, while using less fuel. delivering whatever the world needs, when it needs it. ♪ after all, what's the point of talking if you don't have something important to say? ♪

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all right. time for some sports. we're getting ready for march madness. a bunch of teams have punched their tickets to the ncaa tournament. including one that's probably going to be a number one seed. number one gonzaga on the western conference title game to earn an automatic bid. likely to be now a one seed in the tournament out west. wasn't that long ago, they were the upstart making it through the tournament, now they're the number one seed. top seed of manhattan last night, 60-57, won the metro athletic title. they haven't won a tournament game since 1980 and won't win one this year. davidson back in the tournament after beating the college of charleston, 74-55 in the

southern conference championship, davidson got bounced in the first round of the big dance last year. western kentucky also back in the big dance after claiming the sun belt title. squeaking by florida international, 65-63, the hill toppers are in. and finally, the dukes of james madison university. yes -- >> all right, lewis. >> lewis bergdorf making an appearance after winning the title. they beat northeastern last night 70-57. they've got a team in the big dance and an alum wearing one of those big gulp hats on national television. >> stop it. >> all within 12 hours. >> gross. to the nfl, a couple of playoff teams from the same division making big moves on offense. percy harvin headed to seattle for exchange in a package that includes the seattle seahawks this year.

not to be outdone, the 49ers sent a pick to the ravens for bolden. bolden torched the 9ers for 104 yards. >> this is bad economics. the ravens spend so much on flacco they can't afford a wide receiver that makes flacco flacco. >> anquan boldin has the strongest hands in the nfl. now the other guys have him. mark sanchez, looks like will begin this season at the top of the jets depth chart at quarterback. newly hired offensive coordinator told reporters sanchez will have a quote, leg up going into training camp. is the presumptive favorite. this comes despite sanchez committing 26 turnovers against 13 touchdowns last year. >> is that bad a 1-2 ratio? >> it's not good. >> what's he doing with a football there, willie? >> 2010, tim tebow's still on

the roster. it sounds like big news but it's not when you consider who else is there. of course he's the front runner. notre dame head football coach brian kelly going to join us right here. >> really? >> how exciting. we need to bring reg in. >> one of the big stars in college football tomorrow. coming up, mika's must-read opinion pages. ♪ if loving you is wrong

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[ watch ticking ] [ engine revs ] come in. ♪ got the coffee. that was fast. we're outta here. ♪ [ engine revs ] ♪ all right. welcome back to "morning joe." 46 past the hour. time now for the must-read opinion pages. we'll go to the "wall street journal." paul ryan revealed the framework of his budget plan in the journal this morning. writing in part, our opponents will shout austerity. let's -- but let's put this in perspective. on the current path, we'll spend $46 trillion over the next ten years.

under our proposal, we'll spend $41 trillion. on the current path, spending will increase by 5% each year. under our proposal, it will increase by 3.4%. because the u.s. economy will grow faster than spending, the budget will balance by 2023. and debt held by the public will drop to just over half the size of the economy. the president meanwhile is standing on the sidelines. he's expected to submit his budget in april, two months past his deadline. we house republicans have done our part. we're offering a credible plan for all the country to see. we're outlining how to solve the greatest problems facing america today. now we invite the president and senate democrats to join in the effort. >> andrea mitchell, the battle has begun. >> the battle's begun, but it's really the same battle because what ryan is proposing is changing, replacing medicare, the traditional medicare plan, and that is not going to fly

past the house caucus. so i'm not sure where this moves us. yes, it's a plan, but it seems, again, to be as the democratic proposal most likely will be, as well, more of a political document than a negotiating -- something that can lead into a negotiation and real compromise. >> and jon meacham, this really is, this is a more of a political document than an economic document. which these budgets usually are. they let americans know where the party stands and that's why i look forward to the democrats putting their budget on the house floor, on the senate floor for the first time in four years and then, again, we can have the debate in the open. >> yeah. >> and andrea's put her finger on it. this is, i think, if you look at the numbers, it's about health care spending, it's about medicare, medicaid. governors medicaid takes up a third or more of their budgets. this is about health care spending.

and health care spending isn't a rational market because all of us when you're sick, you want everything you possibly can get. >> right. >> and so there's -- i don't think we talk enough about this. there's really a fundamental scariness at the heart of this which is what's driving the long-term deficit problem is an irrational market about our most -- the things that are most important to us. this is not about big bird, not about npr, this is not about discretionary spending which is, what, 12% of the budget, defense, entitlement, this is about health care. and i think that until we have a big, big conversation about this, a bigger one than we've had, we're going to be spending -- >> and that's the problem. we had a two-year conversation. the conversation was about as big as it could get on the national stage on health care and we really didn't talk about how you fundamentally transform the system where results are rewarded instead of procedures and therein lies the problem.

>> and you can't -- just real quick, we don't get big reforms in this country by small margins. >> right. >> and remember that was a party line vote obama care and since he's now calling it that i guess we all can. >> yeah. he's proud of it. >> and that was an interesting case where the president got a victory but in the old fdr mode of public education and actually, you know, having the people understanding what's going on, that was not a success. >> no, it wasn't. and you had to strike deals early on behind the scenes with big pharma and the big hospitals and there wasn't the type of reform we needed to have. so, steve, you were talking earlier about how americans might not agree with the democrats' tax increases but they're not going to agree with the spending cuts. you say to americans, okay, we're going to spend $41 trillion instead of 44, $45 trillion.

i think generally that's a pretty persuasive argument for republicans out on the campaign trail, isn't it? >> everybody says, well, of course you can cut $45 billion from the federal budget, how hard can that be? $4 trillion doesn't sound much when you're talking about $44 trillion versus $45 trillion. but, yes, health care is the big problem, no, we have not obviously solved the health care problem. what is happening instead, we've talked about many times is health care is squeezing out that 12% of the budget. it's squeezing it out. and what you're going to see. if this budget is like paul ryan's last budget, yes, he's going to do some stuff on health care, but he's going to massively cut into this discretionary spending pile. so, yes, maybe big bird is jeopardized, but more than big bird is infrastructure, r & d, all the things we care about. when people dig into this budget, they're not going to like the spending stuff any more than they like the tax stuff. i don't. >> thank you. andrea mitchell, we'll see you

at 1:00 eastern time right here on msnbc. >> thank you so much. the "washington post's" eugene robinson will be joining the conversation. we'll be right back. mallon brothers magic? watch this -- alakazam! ♪ [ male announcer ] staples has always made getting office supplies easy. ♪ another laptop? don't ask. disappear! abracadabra! alakazam! [ male announcer ] and now we're making it easier to get everything for your business. and for my greatest trick! enough! [ male announcer ] because whatever you need, we'll have it or find it, and get it to you fast. staples. that was easy.

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coming up next, he's back in congress after 12 years away. now he's drawing a line in the sand against his own party, republican congressman joins us next. >> it's big. >> this is interesting. also, mike barnicle, leigh gallagher. and eugene robinson, more "morning joe" in a moment. i have lost 101 lbs on weight watchers online. i just got started and i'm like "hey, that first 20 came off, well it wasn't too hard at all." i love breads. you can still eat bread. i love my sweets. i can still have a cookie on weight watchers. i love the barcode scanner. occasionally, i'll use it at the bar. of course! that's what it's for, right? bar code. oh i think i'm never going there again. i feel healthy. and just...young again. [ female announcer ] weight watchers online. the power of weight watchers completely online. join for free. hurry. offer ends march 16th.

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we love elisabeth. and she's a wonderful person. but beyond that, we value and appreciate her point of view. it's important to us because elisabeth helps give this show perspective and balance. and believe me, she's tougher than she looks. sitting here for a decade taking the guff we give her. so we have no plans for elisabeth to leave. >> oh, wow. that's great. >> welcome back to "morning joe." >> drama at "the view." i show you and willie -- >> elisabeth hasselbeck left, right? >> why didn't she speak? >> because barbara spoke. >> oh. she just spoke extensively about elisabeth but elisabeth didn't get a chance to speak about why it took place but it wasn't discord? >> yeah. >> i don't know. >> i'm confused. >> drama at "the view."

>> drama at "the view." >> lewis weighed in this morning on "way too early" and gave bill his unconditional support. i know bill was like -- thank god. >> oh, wow. well, it's good to know that it goes on. >> that's great to know. that's right. they were saying going to miss joy, but they were saying elisabeth was going to be fired because focus groups showed she was conservative. >> you can't do that. that would be a problem if you were being fired for your point of view. >> barbara said they weren't going to fire her. >> not for her point of view. >> you can't do that. >> i've been telling phil griffin that for a decade now. >> all right. there's definitely something awkward hanging over. >> lighten up. it's daylight savings. >> come on, man. >> is it daylight savings? >> yes. >> you came back from ft. myers. >> i think this is the year. >> what? >> this is the year.

there's no no about it. this is the year of the 85 wins. >> so i went back and read last night because i'm a loser, i've got nothing else to do, but i went and read the take on ted williams' last day. >> yeah. >> at fenway. and that's a great way to start a season. >> two spectacular pieces everyone ought to read before baseball season begins, one is the essay in the "new yorker" magazine about ted williams' final game in eventw wfenway pa 1961, and the piece on ted williams himself written several years ago before ted died, obviously. it is an incredible character portrait of him. >> yeah. >> of a human being. never mind a baseball player. >> you know what i didn't realize was that until i read the piece again that they were fans that would buy tickets in the outfield specifically just to boo ted williams. >> yes.

>> shows you the greatest hitter of all time -- i think that puts a lot of things in perspective for athletes and other people in politics that get hassled. if the greatest hitter of all time was attacked constantly by people in his hometown. >> and in order to prove that he was the greatest hitter of all time, he would follow balls into the left field seats almost directly at the section of the fans that were screaming at him. >> wow. unbelievable. you've had enough of this, haven't you? >> no, i'm good. it's fun to listen to. >> i don't think you think that. thank god "fortune" magazine's editor is here. >> going to talk about baseball. >> big sports fan. >> she is. >> you can educate me. >> and in washington, associate editor for the "washington post," eugene robinson. >> sports fan, as well. >> yes, indeed. >> so let's try this again. seriously this time.

okay? >> okay. here we go. just don't preach. just don't -- >> what? does that grate on you? preaching? >> you just go on and on and on about -- >> she goes on and on and on -- >> look at us. >>sarcastic. >> rattner buys tickets to this table just to attack me. >> that was funny. all right. jumbo sodas come up victorious yesterday as a state court invalidated new york city -- its ban on oversized beverages. the judge's decision which called the law, quote, arbitrary and capricious came as a blow to mayor michael bloomberg who pushed for the law as an outspoken advocate for the prevention of obesity. industry groups like the national association of theater owners said they were elated. >> oh, look at that, mike. that bubbly brew. >> heaven. >> in your children's bodies.

>> it's good for you too. >> the american beverage association is also very, very, very happy, calling the ruling a sigh of relief because they can continue to make money selling poison. even sarah palin tweeted victory in new york city for liberty loving soda drinkers to politicians with too much time on their hands. we say government, stay out of my refrigerator. thank you. that pretty much crystallizes one side of this story. >> yes, stay out of our refrigerator, a lot of americans would say stay out of our bedrooms, as well. >> the mayor responds to the criticism last night on "the late show" with david letterman. >> we heard the soda ban has been overruled by a state court? >> state court judge said the department of health didn't have the authority to do it. we think that they do. we'll appeal. in the meantime, this year, 70,000 americans will die from obesity, 5,000 here in new york. >> so --

>> and by the way, as we look at that picture. let's go to alex one second, mika, and this is an intervention. what i was talking about before about you not going on too long. alex, we have a tweet. >> we got a tweet. joe, please nudge mika and remind her to let other people speak and stop talking over others. >> i think you made that tweet up. >> i did not. >> who was that from? >> @beckstick. >> really. @beckstick. >> very good. >> i'll try and temper my comments. >> can i say something about this drink? >> please. >> we talk a lot about this show about leadership and the lack of leadership. and the mayor himself has come on here and said you know, sometimes you have to do not what your people want you to do but what you have to take people by the hand and lead them. in business, we talk about the way steve jobs manages things. he takes you and yanks you and

gives you something you didn't know you needed. and i think this is a case of that. i think if you look at the obesity rates, if you look at -- i also think it might be overturned because the reasons the judge gave, the loopholes, doesn't apply to refills. those seem to be minor to me. look at what the mayor did with smoking, that seemed just as outrageous back when he instituted it. i thank him every day when i go to a -- well, when i used to go to bars and the next day you wake up and your hair doesn't smell like smoke. there were a lot of people that didn't want that to happen. >> where does it end? there are a lot of people. telling, you know, saying whether we smoke here or there -- where does this end? because a lot of us said when they were talking about banning cigarettes years ago said next they're going to come for your food. and what's after that? >> smoking is different than, i think, the big gulp thing. i understand where the mayor is

coming from. i understand that obesity is a huge issue in this country. but it's -- i don't know about the 16-ounce ban. >> i think when you see science, though, you're going to change your mind. >> nobody is saying you can't drink soda. nobody is banning soda. people are saying -- 600 12-ounce sodas per year per person for every man, woman and child in this country. even though you help with that average, it's a huge number. >> does -- >> does it also ban free refills, though? >> no. >> so you take your 8-ounce drink or your 16-ounce and you fill it up three or four times. i mean it's -- >> you missed half the movie. >> gene, it actually changes behavior, it changes the way you think about it. and you have to look at the amount of sugar and highly processed sugar that is toxic that is in these drinks, in he's

big gulps, it's four or five candy bars. it's unbelievable how dangerous it is to drink these things let alone on a regular basis which is beyond debilitating to the human body. >> okay. >> then you look at how much -- >> i'm sorry. >> no, that's okay. >> how much sugar is in all food we eat and buy at the grocery store in things you would least expect it. and then you really take a look at our food environment and wonder what is going on here. >> look at the cereals placed on the lower shelves in super markets for young kids to grab when they're shopping with their parents, you might as well take a bag of sugar and -- >> and go like that. that would be better for you. >> it's not a good thing. >> i do think the food companies are on to this if nothing else for a business reason. they're slowly starting to change, wouldn't you agree, mika, pepsi and coke have both started to -- >> but in part because of things like what the mayor's doing which is saying to everybody we've got to change our habits. >> they were preparing for this

not to go well. coke and major junk food distributors and fast food restaurants were getting ready for this, making changes even in the size of the cups because they did not think they would win. in terms of coke and pepsi, mcdonald's and major food makers, they are, i say, making changes, making healthy choices. but i also see it as preparing for litigation that is sure to happen. >> and this is where we disagree. because mcdonald's -- and you started saying five, six, seven years ago, i forget. but you started noticing, at least, when pensacola and it happened across the country where we had a perfectly good mcdonald's, they leveled it. and they leveled it to put up a new mcdonald's that had a new lock and they started selling coffee and they started selling salads and you would say that's preparing for lawsuits. no, they want to make money. companies are in the business of

making money. my son now and his friends now will tell you the best coffee is at mcdonald's. and they can afford it. so they drive through, they get their coffee at mcdonald's, go to work and these are business decisions. coke, i love their new commercials. and by the way, i want to say and i'm sure you agree with me, mike, and i don't know if you guys do or not, but, you know, coke is not poison. coca-cola and other soft drinks have been around for a century. and there are a lot of us, mike, that picked up the bottle of coke, drank it, played baseball, played football whatever, we burned it off. and i will say -- and i know it's -- there are a lot of different -- different people that have different experiences. you know, my grand mom lived to

93. and it was sweets all over the place. but she was very active. burned it off. when people start talking about this food that we've been eating and drinking for 100 years and calling it poison. when you call it poison -- >> toxic. >> i don't think it is toxic. >> no, it is. >> i think you run it off. >> i would make a strong case -- >> joe, there is a difference, though. you remember coca-cola used to come in bottles about this big. >> 6-ounce bottles. >> when we were kids. an 8-ounce bottle and that was that. and there's a difference between that and a 32-ounce -- >> absolutely. abo absolutely. you can make a strong case that the glass bottle 6-ounce coke is the greatest drink in the world. but it's 6 ounces. >> once, maybe a year, maybe two. first of all, in the research for the book i have coming out in may, i talked to legal experts and health experts who worked on the tobacco lawsuits

and they're getting ready and expecting to do quite well. that's one angle. second, on the issue of poison. if you ate something if you only had a bit of it you're fine, if you had a lot, you get sick. is that poison? >> when does your book come out? >> may. >> you know what i'm looking forward to, mike? cheryl sandberg's book on diet that's going to come out next may. >> stop it. chambers of congress are working on a budget. this morning, of course, paul ryan is previewing his blueprint. >> yes, he is, ryan says his budget would balance by 2023. calls for no new taxes and scales back spending increases to 3.4% a year. that would bring savings of $4.6 trillion over the next decade. the plan, similar to the one that the house passed last year would open up land for domestic energy, repeal the president's health care plan, reduce welfare spending and fundamentally

change the tax code. on the other side of the capitol, president obama meets with senate democrats today. tomorrow, democratic senators are expected to release their budget plan. something the party hasn't done in nearly four years. the washington post reports the democrats' proposals would raise almost $1 trillion in new taxes while cutting $1 trillion in spending. >> all right. hey, is matt salmon. matt is in washington. >> hey, matt. >> republican from arizona. >> yeah, and we regularly got called into the speaker's office when we were there. >> arm twisting. >> i want to hear joe stories. >> i remember one time we were walking out and this is after the speaker had said that he was going to de-fund all the military bases in my district and i said to matt, and i'm really down thinking, man, you know, i feel horrible for the people in my district. and without missing a beat, it

was a low point of my congressional career and matt said don't worry they deserved it for electing you. >> there you go. first one. >> not exactly what you want to hear. anyway, so, matt, one of the things that drove us crazy was when you'd have congress passing these rules and they'd be so self-righteous about it and then just ignore them. and you actually have thrown down the gauntlet on republican leadership. >> yeah, kind of feels like old times, joe. remember when we took our first rule down you and i and about ten other guys took that rule down that increased spending for the house. >> yeah. and we got hauled before the conference and they yelled at us, said we were stupid, childish, but the fact is, i'm sick and tired of folks that are doing everything they can to try to get a bad bill going and then

they vote against it when the bad bill's got the momentum to go through. we should be doing everything. using every tool in our tool box to try to stop bad legislation from happening. >> so what are are you doing, matt? what have you told the speaker? >> what i've said is as we go forward any time that they violate the pay/go rules which says we pay for -- pay as we go that if we don't have spending increases, bill doesn't go forward. i'm going to vote against the rule that violates that principle. the other one is the hastert rule that every time the leadership puts forth a bill where they've got a majority of democrats and minority of republicans, i'm going to vote against that rule. and i -- i believe that we've got to get back to the way we did things before, joe. >> so matt let me ask you about that. >> yeah. >> we pass these pay/go rules and republicans do an awful lot and then we ignore it. >> right.

>> democrats, of course, did the same thing when nancy pelosi was speaker and i think they even passed a pay/go rule. and so -- >> right. >> the question is are you going to have enough republicans with you to make sure -- again, it's a basic concept, by the way, because people are going to try to paint this as radical, no, you're just saying what jeff sachs said last week. you pay for that government and don't put us any deeper in debt. >> just like every american has to do, every hospital, every church, every organization out there. they don't spend more than they take in. if they do end up having something they have to spend on, they have to cut somewhere else to pay for it. that's all we're proposing. and if they violate the pay/go rules, i'm not going to support the rule. do we have enough support? i think it's going to reach a critical mass. i think people are sick and tired of playing the good old boy game, kicking the can down

the road, use whatever metaphor you want to use. but the problem is, our budget since you and i left back in 2001 has doubled from $1.8 trillion up to $3.6 trillion. and we're just saying that it's time to change things. let's get back to fixing the budget and getting america back on track again. >> congressman, i want to switch gears for a second. your district is arizona, which in many ways was kind of ground zero for housing and a lot of damage in the economy. now we're hearing how housing's coming back, you know, your constituency is right kind of in the middle of a lot of the trends we're reading about. how are things, can you really feel something, things coming back there. >> yeah, in fact, the housing market is picking up in arizona, we were probably one of the hardest in the country right up there with nevada and a couple of other places. nevada and arizona were the two hardest hit in the entire country when the housing bubble popped.

but the housing sales, especially at the level of about $300,000 to $400,000 homes has really skyrocketed and the value of our homes has gone up and we all know that because we just got our valuation statements from the county assessor leveling our property taxes and everyone's grumbling about the fact that our property taxes are up so high. i think that's a really, really good thing. i think that the economy in arizona -- i think also due to the fact that our legislature and governor passed pro-growth policies reducing the regulation in arizona, keeping the taxes low and welcoming business to arizona. in fact, one of the best things that's happening of all is that as they're exiting california because of their oppressive regulatory and taxation policies, they're moving to arizona and that's a great thing. >> all right. >> gene and perhaps we can get the congressman in on this at the tail end, but it sort of

interests me, skimming paul ryan's op-ed piece in today's "wall street journal" and listening to the congress talk about the budget and balancing the budget ten years out. there's very little talk among some elements in congress of raising the rates, tax increases, however you want to call it, whatever you want to call it, widening the revenue stream, i just don't seem to get how we get to a balanced budget ten years out without doing something with the revenue stream. >> well, we don't. this seems to me to be a political document in that obama care's going to be repealed, i don't think that's going to happen. i don't think the preconditions he lays down for balancing this budget by 2023. it's not going to happen. it's a statement of philosophy. don't raise taxes, cut the size of government, that's what he

wants to do. and so he puts it out there. but i don't think you can read that as a serious proposal. >> congressman, how do we get there? >> i think by eliminating the growth to 3.4% instead of 5% is a great way of getting there. i'd rather see us limit the growth to 2% or less and get there in five or six years. but i think this 10% -- excuse me this growth over ten years of 3.4% is very, very modest and if we can't tighten our belt to 3.4% growth a year when the growth in the economy has been substantially less than that, then shame on us. as far as revenues were concerned, the president got a massive tax increase over the last couple of months. frankly, i don't think that taxes are the answer. we don't need more taxes, we need more taxpayers. and the fact is that during the '80s when ronald reagan actually cut the marginal tax rates, i

think the largest -- highest tax rate on highest income earners was 78% when he started, when he left it was 28%. and the revenues among those people actually grew by ten times. so i'm an unabashed supply side guy. i believe when you cut taxes, revenues actually grow. and i think we have to look ourselves in the mirror and ask us, what's our goal to raise taxes or increase revenues? >> thank you. great to have you -- >> thank you. >> thank you, matt. >> and eugene robinson. >> stay with us if you can, gene. >> if you can. still ahead on "morning joe," what the u.s. economy can learn from some third world countries. that's the subject of a new book by peter blair henry, the dean of nyu's business school joining us straight ahead. coming up next, debbie wasserman-schultz joins us, also chuck todd. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer] surprise -- you're having triplets.

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taken aback to your answer about the question about organizing for action. >> you're taken aback? >> it's no different than if the president sees this group, it's no different than the dscc -- >> i didn't say -- >> this is a group that's planning on coordinating with the white house, is it not? >> well, ofa -- again, it was set up to promote the president's public policy agenda. and therefore as anyone would expect, the president would likely meet with the representatives to discuss his agenda. any notion as we talked about that there's a price set for a meeting with the president is absurd and wrong. >> 26 past the hour, look at that shot of -- >> beautiful shot. >> washington, d.c. it's rainy, but you've got to get out of bed, you've got to get to work. there's a lot of traffic. there's a lot of traffic. >> take the covers, put them over your head. >> here with us now --

>> don't move. >> democratic representative from florida and chair of the dnc, congresswoman debbie wasserman-schultz. and nbc chief white house correspondent chuck todd. >> it's really not quite so preposterous, is it, to suggest that you pay money, you have access to the president. >> there's no set price tag. i don't understand, they're trying to say that, look -- is there going to be a -- >> i like his smile, no there are always prices attached to these things. and they're making themselves look silly by suggesting otherwise. >> not only that, candidate obama said even when you're not asking for anything, these folks are getting -- i mean, it's an

amazing amount of time that candidate obama spent railing against a system that does this. and this was a case of where the obama folks have made the -- if you can't beat them, join them. >> right. >> what's interesting here, and you've got the chairwoman of the dnc, organizing for action to me is the next sign that the two national parties are basically obsolete as structures. >> well, chuck -- chuck, go ahead. >> and you are now competing for dollars with the president of the united states rather than having the president of the united states raise money for the dnc. how is the dnc relevant in the -- in the 21st century under these rules of the way campaign financing works anymore? >> well, chuck, first of all, your premise is off base. the president is going to robustly be involved in raising money for the democratic national committee for his political arm. and the dnc couldn't be more

relevant. you know, i actually am really glad that ofa has decided to stay active because, you know, typically between elections you have a harder time when you don't have a candidate for volunteers to stay engaged and motivated around. now we have this organization that is going to be able to keep our volunteers engaged and involved from one election to the next, organizing around the issues and the agenda that the president and democrats are advancing. and then we're going to be able to shift their focus to the candidates who we need to elect to advance that agenda. >> are they going to share this technology? are you going to have to buy this stuff? are they going to share this data? >> the democratic national committee owns the voter file. we're the ones that are going to be primarily be driving, making sure that the targeted data and information that actually has allowed us to run in the last two election cycles the largest

most dynamic presidential campaigns in history, that is going to be driven by the dnc and organizing for action is going to be involved in making sure we keep our grass roots activists engaged. and they will be turned loose on the campaigns in 2014 and help us win the majority and the house back. >> gene, certainly nobody is criticizing the white house for doing what white houses in the past have done. but wouldn't you agree it would be much easier if jay carney would come clean and stop reading lawyer statements that make him look silly. >> i think it was not his finest moment when he tried to explain that. you know, look, does money buy you access in washington? yeah. it has for a long time. and it will for a long time more and that's the way it is. i do think that ofa -- ofa -- this is very interesting because we've seen that president obama is kind of a unique asset in

being able to activate young people, minorities, voters who expand the democratic party's coalition and perhaps convert them into permanent every time voters. which i would think would be the aim of the dnc, basically, to keep the enthusiasm of the years when the president is running into the off year elections, as well. >> i want you to put on your hat as a congresswoman from florida. the game shows popular in your district. i want to ask you about three things. your personal view of budget talks coming up. could you support a deal that had a higher retirement age for benefits for social security and medicare? >> no, and neither could the president because it's not necessary. i could support changes to medicare and medicaid and eventually social security that are part of a grand bargain. president obama's proposed one, we have an opportunity to close our deficit.

target responsible spending cuts and making changes to entitlement programs that don't go after the middle class, particularly our middle class seniors first. >> what's your next question. >> how about means testing for medicare benefits for hiring medicare beneficiariebeneficiar? >> president obama's proposal, which is on white house.gov, the grand bargain has $360 billion in medicare savings right there for the taking. we actually have more savings that we can ring out of those programs. we don't need, though -- >> is that enough? >> what it is, it's not first. let's do everything we can and then if we still need more savings, then you look at things that might have to address benefits. but we don't need to do that now. we haven't -- >> a deal, a final deal that had other things you liked that included means testing for beneficiarie beneficiaries. >> no, i don't think those things are necessary. we have other ways we can ring savings like we demonstrated in the affordable care act with $16

billion in savings. we have not done enough to address the savings opportunities in our entitlement programs to go to benefit cuts first. unnecessary. >> you know, chuck todd, what's so interesting is, i saw this on meet the press and this is what we have to do, ask these questions, the beginning of negotiations. a ask was asked, can you ever support tax increases again and he has to say no. i would say no on the air because if you're a republican, we just saw taxes go up. that said -- and we heard the congresswoman talk about this too. you get the sense whether it's republicans or democrats, if the grand bargain is grand enough, both sides for the first time are willing to give on a lot of things. >> absolutely. >> they have never been willing to give on before. i think we're moving closer to a deal. the republicans will give on tax loopholes, democrats will give

on entitlements. >> we all have to give a little. >> i have a sense things are really starting to change, chuck, what about you? >> i am actually an optimistic on this too. i think there's a political exhaustion. you know, remember in -- when you're seeking love in life, you only have to be right once, right? nine times out of ten, or 99 out of 100, a relationship ends badly, you can't come to your grand bargain and have a proposal for years to come. well, it's the same here, you know. look, they're going to have -- they haven't gotten it right all these times and it's easy to sit there and say they won't do it this time, but i think there's a combination of political exhaustion they'll finally settle and they'll finally say, if we don't cut a deal now it isn't going to happen two years from now. it isn't going to happen three years from now. then you don't have another window for another five years. >> yeah. >> and that's going to, i think -- i think that's going to

sit on them and make them do this. >> i understand perfectly your responses to raising the requirement age and means testing in the current political climate. but isn't part of our obligation to our children and our grandchildren down the road to think down the road, raise the retirement age, means testing, trigger it in, 30, 40, 50 years out. life expectancy is going to be much longer 20, 30 years -- >> we're not done finishing with the retirement age being raised to social security. we're not even finished with getting to 67 yet. we've got to make sure that we do everything we can to wring savings out of these programs that don't hit benefits first. democrats like me voted for $1.2 trillion in cuts only approach to raising the debt ceiling in the summer of 2011. those are cuts that most of us have spent our careers opposing. so we've demonstrated time and again that we're willing to make

the hard choices, spend political capital, go home and defend it. my district is a liberal democratic district. >> you're kidding. >> i know that's shocking in south florida, but i went home and defended that, even though i had many, many calls and letters not to support those cuts. but we couldn't let the full faith and credit of the united states be jeopardized. we have to come to the table. and you know what's frustrating to me, honestly, paul ryan's releasing a budget today that assumes the repeal of obama care, that changes medicare into a voucher system. did he get anything out of that lunch he had with president obama the other day? if we're going to start moving towards one another, then we need to actually take those baby steps. we can't keep digging in to hardened positions. >> do you have any sense about optimism being constructed? >> i do because we've got to keep talking. president obama's going to keep pushing, sit down with all four caucuses this week. he's going to continue to have those smaller meetings. democrats and republicans like me and dan webster who have been holding dinners that are

bipartisan have been working together. i had a chance to talk to chuck about that the other day. we do that without any attention or grand standing just so that we can start to close the trust deficit. you have to get to know one another in order to do that. and joe knows that. >> yep. >> you do a lot more to reach across the aisle when you have trust, know one another, when you like each other. how do we know whether we like one another if we don't spend any time together. we've got to do more of it. >> i agree with chuck. and mike and i agree that most relationships end badly, 99 out of 100. >> congressman -- >> that ratio sounds about right. >> thank you so much. >> thank you, debbie. >> you're welcome. >> chuck todd, thank you, as well. we'll see you at 9:02. gene, thank you again, we'll look for your column in the "washington post." coming up, senator claire mccaskill will be with us. more "morning joe" in a minute.

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♪ welcome back to "morning joe" at 46 past the hour. here with us now, the dean of new york university's stern school of business, peter blair henry, the author of the new book "turnaround," third world lessons for first world growth. this sounds like a great concept. but first i must point out he's escaped the responsibilities this morning.

we're glad we could help you out. >> delighted to be here. i'll make it up to my wife later on today. >> four boys to get out the door at once. good luck to that. tell us about the book. what are the lessons we can learn from third world countries? >> well, it's an important time in the global economy. first world countries like the united states, western europe are looking a lot like third world countries. we used to call third world countries 30 years ago. slow growth and lack of direction. and -- >> and crumbling infrastructure. if there isn't. >> and a need to invest in infrastructure. >> yeah. >> and the question is, how do we get back on track? and third world countries have a lot to teach us. third world countries, there's a lot of talk right now about the fiscal issues. and one of my favorite examples from the third world is the story of chile. compare chile and the united states. in 2001, we had a record $236 billion surplus, which we decided to give back in the form of tax cuts.

in chile in 2008 had a huge surplus, came under incredible pressure to spend that surplus during flush times, but the finance minister held his ground and said, no, we're going to save this. and when the global recession hit in 2009, chile was able to enact a $4 billion tax cut and subsidy program. the key lesson there was discipline. we need more discipline to get back on track. >> that's one thing we could start with. >> we're also talking about here, political paralysis that prevents us, i would think from doing many of the things that occur in other countries. it's embarrassing, somewhat embarrassing now as an american, greatest country in the world. greatest country in the world. land of opportunity to come back to the united states having been to say any number of places, singapore, hong kong where everything is new, where you're wired, you know, more instantly than you are in many areas of this country and wondering why is it that we can't get up to

speed in so many areas that we need desperately to get up to speed to? >> you know, i think the key thing is, and this is what's really ironic. three decades ago, we went around the world and taught third world countries about the three things that are needed to get the economies back on track. discipline, clarity and trust. and now there's an opportunity for us to learn from what they've been doing the last three decades and turning things around. so for instance, you talk about the paralysis in this country. there are lots of democratic societies that have found a way to get through difficult times. what my favorite example comes from the very tiny country of barbados. people say what can you learn from barbados. it's a place you go for vacation. no. in 1992, barbados faced a real economic crisis, went into recession, the imf said you need to de-value the currency. they said, no, we've got an alternative plan. they got the private sector together with labor unions and the government and found a way to agree to wage cuts instead of

devaluing the currency to restore competitiveness to the economy. this was not an easy thing to do. >> you think it's easy thing too >> you think it will ever happen here? >> this is where i think the key lesson is, right? in a small country, when you decide to cut wages, you are cutting your brother's wages, your cousin's wages if a small country can find the courage and reach a compromise in difficult things, we can certainly find our way forward. >> peter, a lot of what you talk about is growing moderately, exercising prudence and self-control. we have never been a country that likes moderation. what we need now is growth, we need to be -- a lot of companies, their strategy is to chase this growth in precisely the markets you talk about china, brazil. is that the wrong strategy, we need to be just a little bit more thoughtful? what's your key on that? >> the word discipline, you have heard to moderation, really is about finding the right balance. >> discipline and moderation.

yes. >> so a lot of people think this one means austerity. us a ter sit like crash dieting, right? >> correct. >> just spending willy-nilly is like binge eating. we need to find that middle road which is, again, use the example of chile. the key thing is you don't need a balanced budget all moments in time. you need to save during good times so that when you hit a rainy day, you have got money to spend. and that is, of course, the lesson of the ant and the grasshopper. >> a hard times sometimes defining good times and then they don't save. the book "turn around, third world lessonnesses for first world growth." read an expert on our blog, mojo.msnbc.com. peter blair henry, thank you, come back. good tough on our show. >> good to be here. on "morning joe" tomorrow, mayor michael bloomberg will be here on set. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. come on, nowadays lots of people go by themselves.

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coming up next, new york city breaks out the bubbly after a judge overturns a ban on

large, sugary drinks. mika is angry. she is roided out. she is going to be throwing things around next segment. we are going to be talking about the large debate over health and the power of the nanny state, coming up straight ahead on "morning mika." [ male announcer ] when it comes to the financial obstacles military families face, we understand. our financial advice is geared specifically to current and former military members and their families. life brings obstacles. usaa brings retirement advice.

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weight, don't eat. that's the answer. this is not medicine, it's thermodynamics. you take in more than you use, you store it. >> but it is so engineered, the taste, the sweetness, the saltiness, the amount of pressure one needs to crack a potato chip with their teeth has all been -- >> that is -- >> engineered so people continue to eat that kind of food. >> as long as you don't ban chees cheese its. that's my addiction. 8:00 on the east coast, 5 a.m. on the west coast it is time to wake up. >> it is not really. not really. >> you should get out of bed right now. >> stay there. >> take a live look at new york city. >> eat a munchkin. >> welcome back to "morning joe." back with us on set, mark halperin, steve rattner and in washington, andrea mitchell and jon meachum. a lot to talk about this morning. our top story though is about big, sugary sodas. they came out victorious

yesterday as a state court invalidated new york's ban on oversized beverages. the decision came as a blow to mayor michael bloomberg who pushed for the law as an outspoken advocate for the prevention of obesity n his decision the judge called the law arbitrary and capricious, saying the city had interpret the board of health's power so broadly it would create an "administrative leviathan." >> good word. good word. theater owners who serve popcorn so full of salt it will kill you and these big drink sit for two hours and drink and become sick. >> beverage association also -- a sigh of relief. >> beverage association is relived because they can continue to make money poisoning people. oh, look, let me help everybody out. even sarah palin tweeted. yeah. >> just gonna ask. >> victory in new york city for

lint-loving soda drinkers. to politicians with too much time on their hands, we say, government, stay out of our refrigerators. >> my bedroom is all right. out of my refrigerator. don't want them in your refrigerator, why do you want them in your bedroom? >> this man speaks for new yorkers everywhere. >> pour it on. >> look at that face. look at this face. >> so let's not make too much light of this. >> no. because it's actually a really serious issue. >> get the constitutional ramifications of this go to our flash cam. >> yeah. >> and see -- >> louis -- >> oh, my gosh. >> louis what are the implications for this? >> oh, joke, the constitutional implications are just remarkable. >> remarkable? >> i didn't know this was the "daily show." >> you know the mayor very

well -- >> get out of here. >> how upset was the mayor? >> no, go ahead, i would like to hear -- >> did he break some of his golf clubs? what did he do? go kick his plane? >> full disclosure, i'm his friend, i manage his moneyism want everybody to know write stand on this i saw him yesterday and he was very philosophical about it. he has been through this before. exactly the same thing that happened with the calorie counts, fast food restaurants, overturned by the federal court, ultimately went on appeal and now you have those calorie counts and they are going to exist all over the country. >> yeah. so willie what did you think about louis, how did he pull that off? >> he looked good. >> yeah. >> i'm not sure his line was believable. >> i thought he maintained his normal level of dignity. >> louis, just go. don't cough. >> it's leaking on him now. are you saying lou wits -- >> wait. >> louis is wrestling the cap

and the cap is winning. >> all right. all right. get the camera off him. most new yorkers, come on, the kids on the street, they love you. most new yorkers agree with this judge. don't tell us what to drink. >> actually -- >> i think most new yorkers agree with the judge on the arbitrary part which is if you sit in a restaurant, you can't have more than 16 ounces but you go to the 7-11 connected, adjacent, you can have 72 ounces or whatever it is. the arbitrary part, get a refill and refill f you're going to do it do it every where. >> that was a function of the authority of the board of health, need to do this through the board of health and the board of health cannot regulate the convenience stores. >> i think the mayor's instent great, trying to get people healthy, just a very difficult law to apply across the board. >> there will be, unfortunately, a clamp down on the restaurant industry and the beverage industry, just much like the cigarette industry and they will wear a black hat at some point, just like the cigarette industry

does, because legal action will continue until they are brought down, until they stop putting sugar, salt and terrible fats into our food and making them addictive. and the science is coming along here. the science is coming along. it's gonna catch up with people like the mayor, who are already there, and on the cutting edge of this story. >> you should write a book about this. >> i am. >> he could win on appeal. this isn't over. >> i hope he does. >> and we asked how he was. he is very philosophical. he has been here before. he will appeal t and he will fight it. he doesn't win every single thing he wants to do you may remember congestion pricing didn't happen. >> he is a visionary on this. you know what, they were taking it seriously, coke was putting posters up describing the sides, the portion size. some restaurants started serving fresh-squeezed juices instead of the sugary. >> disgusting. >> other companies were making smaller cups, it's not like they were laughing at what mayor bloomberg was doing. they were scared. he lost this round but they know

that there are more court cases to come and they are trying so hard to get ready, but i don't know if it's gonna happen. i think they are going to actually be brought down in court. you know what don't be mad at me about that. be mad at the fact that you buy this stuff, again and again and again and the companies feel like they have to produce poison for you and your children. >> come on, stop it. stop it. i think i've given you enough, like, lead here. >> air time? >> now, reel it back in on this. >> i'm just saying it's killing us, it's killing our children. it's liquid sugar and sugar is poison. >> first of all it is not killing us. it is not killing our children. >> you don't think the obesity cries is is killing us? >> i think the obesity crisis is horrific. a lot of things are doing it. i drink coca-cola, soft drink, i eat cap'n crunch, trix, all these things i ran out and ran it all off by 10:00 in the morning. don't say this stuff is killing us it is not killing us it is the lack of activity combined with people sitting on the couch

instead of going out and playing all day, they are playing video games on the couch. they are not moving around. >> the big gulp. >> that's fine. let me tell you, i drank so much coke growing up. >> i also did two-a-days as a football player. >> you're making my point. it's not the poison. coca-cola is not the poison. and these other soft drinks are not the poison, it's the lack of activity. we have all changed. our kids have changed. much better to get your kids up and off the couch than painting coca-cola and painting other soft drinks what they are not. because they are not the poison. but if you just sit on your couch all day and you eat and you don't do anything, then, yes, it's going to have a negative impact. >> actually, i just have to count he -- >> so, don't overspeak on -- >> i'm not. >> these things we have all been eating for 50 years and we don't need my -- i would much rather mike bloomberg is, he's got power over the schools, why doesn't he force schools to have

hour-long pe and run them hard? run the kids hard? >> because these foods actually are toxic the way they are made, if i may finish. i contend that you're making an incorrect statement by saying these things respect poison. >> they are not poison. >> they are. when you have such high concentrations of sugar and high fructose corn syrup and salt and fat in foods, they are actually toxic and they create an addictive -- >> keep the camera here, she is talking. go ahead. go ahead. >> they create an addictive -- oh, joe. >> oh, man. >> this was not set up. i eat they were morning. >> i bet you couldn't put those aside if i asked you to, if i challenged you to, and that's the issue. those are so full of sugar and so full of fat and they trigger a reward mechanism in the brain that makes you not able to stop at one. >> that's why i have them every morning. >> these are the healthy ones no jelly in the middle. >> i know you want to talk about the budget.

>> i want too talk about this. >> i agree with you. >> we are all so fat that our health care system is being ruined and brought down by this. >> so, actually we can bring this back to the budget -- a quarter of what we spend on medicare is to deal with conditions like diabetes that come from obesity, that come from the fact that americans drink twice as much soda as any other country. >> listen, i'm not -- i'm not saying the obesity crisis isn't a huge problem it is a big budget problem, but please, don't blame why people eat. you have got to look at the whole thing holistically and that's what willie and i always say holistically. >> people that just have too many calories in this country. >> i have blueberries. don't even think about it. i have got three more. i have got blueberries, too. >> balanced diet. >> all right. they -- we have a couple of other stories that are extremely important. but this one -- >> pure sugar. >> this one, i will end on saying this before you criticize

me for my opinions, give me a better solution. take a look around in this country and give me a better solution and if you think this isn't bringing us down and it will not end up in the courts, just like cigarettes, you're wrong. >> come on. come on. after more than 11 years of war, we are once again reminded that american lives at stake in afghanistan every day. yesterday marked the deadliest day of the year for u.s. forces in the still-dangerous country when two separate events took the lives of seven american troops. a helicopter crash in southern afghanistan killed five u.s. service members. there were no reports of enemy activity in the region at the time of the crash but an official investigation is under way. earlier in the day, two u.s. special operations personnel were among those killed during an insider attack at an american outpost in eastern afghanistan. the attacker, dressed in an afghan national security forces uniform opened fire before being killed in what became a firefight. according to the associated press, there have been 12 u.s.

troop deaths in the country so far this year. in 2012, 297 u.s. service member he is were killed while serving in afghanistan. andrea mitchell, i will let you take it from here as we move forward because hamid karzai is jumping into the conversation, too sway is little bit troubling. >> this has been ten years hamid karzai but this has really gone off the rails. it was the first visit as pentagon chief of chuck hagel and the whole visit was overshadowed by karzai's misbehavior. yes, he is playing to a local audience. he has got his own political problem bus for him to suggest to the defense secretary that the u.s. is co-wlugd the taliban extend the war and keep the american presence longer than 2014 when actually exfor his own survival, needs those troops there and does need to negotiate this long-lasting agreement, despite his denials, for

additional residual american troops, it is outrageout and not going to fly in a time of budget cuts and southwesters. no way congress is going to put up with this very much longer and i think it will only hasten the timetable. it is in the american interest, according the administration and democrats and republicans, to have some sort of hold on afghanistan a because of what's happening next door, most any pakistan, but this is not going to fly. >> you know, mark halperin this is why what rand paul did this past week, even though it was on another issue, drones, i think afghanistan, which we have been talking about now for four years changing of the mission there trickling troops, going from an anti-terror campaign to an anti-insurgency campaign this is one more example of how we need a republican party filled with realists that aren't going to give presidents of both parties a blank check to fight endless wars. it is caught up in the

budget discussions as well because there's obviously some cost savings here. you see this president and both chuck hagel and john kerry as a group, pretty skeptical of any other type of american troops on the ground. i think the president hopes to and plans to go these four years without extending the american military presence on the ground overseas and scale down this war. hopefully never again put the united states in a position where we have an ally, i say with air quotes in my voice, like karzai, who is not -- not dependable and who, at this stage, with all the loss of american life, all the money the united states has spent, still saying outrageous things. >> and willie, it bears reminding people here the same karzai who said a few years ago he could side with the taliban. >> thinking of joining up with the taliban. >> jon meachum, this, the last few days, we have had a couple of suicide bombings, an insider attack yesterday that killed two american servicemen, one of them a green beret. it seems like every day we get a

reminder of the horror of afghanistan. i guess the question is now once we do leave, whether it is an accelerated timetable, as andrea suggests or the end of 2014 what do we take away from afghanistan that maybe we should have taken away from vietnam before we went into afghanistan? >> this is one of the tragic cases where the lessons were clear from the beginning. i think we knew from the historic experience of other imtear y'all powers in afghanistan, it was an incredibly difficult terrain t is a barely a country in many ways. one of the things about karzai, i remember back in 2001, people saying, you know, we know we can't buy a warlord but the problem is in afghanistan, you can't even rent them. that's true of karzai in many ways, i think this will be studies forever, i hope it's studied forever in terms of a mission, defining a mission more clearly, the idea we have to sit

here in 2013 and make such an obvious, painfully obvious point after the experience of vietnam, after the experience of the british and russians in afghanistan is really painful. i think it is something -- i know the war colleges and you talk to folks at west point and intellectually, all the military science had gets in and somehow a gulf between what understand intellectually as the problems with this kind of war and what ends up happening in realtime and that's the tragic gap. coming up on "morning joe," he was listed among "time" magazine's 100 most influential people in the world, best-selling author and founding pastor of the mars hill bible megachurch, rob bell joins us with a new book on misconceptions about god, his new book. and up next, democratic senator claire mccaskill joins us. but first, bill karins. >> misconceptions around the

weather? >> that's from me, by the way. well, let's talk about this forecast. we are watching delays right now because of the rain, low visibility you just a rainy tuesday. kind of like a nap day, if you can get away with it all the way up and down i-95, new england all the ways down to d.c. so far, laguardia, hour and a half delays, the rain, we are locked in. the green on the map shows you the rain. thankfully not dealing with snow or ice or anything, just a solid shield of rain, going to melt, an incredible amount of snow in new england, no complaints up there maybe unofficially starting the mud season in that range. so, as far as the timing goes, when does the rain end? washington, d.c., about 1 p.m. philly, about 3 p.m., new york city, calling around 5 p.m., hartford, 7 p.m., not until boston till about 10 p.m. tomorrow looks to be almost a completely dry day throughout this region. also raining in north carolina, virginia beach region, you will clear out by noon today, just showers out there toward savannah. the other rainy spot, waking up with us early in the pacific northwest, a very significant

rain event for you the next three to four days, almost like one of those pineapple express-type things, getting moisture off the pacific, four to seven inches of rain and the threat of avalanches the next couple of days, especially anywhere in the cascades. the forecast ftoday, i haven't mentioned the southern half of the country because you don't deserve t 70 in dallas, 80 in florida today and l.a. to phoenix, upper 70s to low 80s. enjoy it and rub it in while you can. st. louis, not a bad start, too, just a little bit chilly. speak about the people that can complain, new york city. gotham is gloomy. you are watching morning joe, brewed by starbucks. students everywhere are looking for someone who can help them reach their full potential.

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a colonel, james wilkerson, was convicted by a jury, a military jury, of sexual assault. he was sentenced to dismissal, forfeiture of pay and one year in jail. and with a stroke of a pen last week, a general dismissed those charges against him. my heart is beating fast right now. i am so upset about this. i question now whether that unit that that man returns to, whether there's any chance a woman who is sexually assaulted in that unit would ever say a word, because what that general just said is that jury's

decision didn't matter. >> all right. welcome back to "morning joe." that was senator claire mccaskill last week, calling on the pentagon to explain why an air force general was able to overturn a sexual assault conviction, and senator claire mccaskill joins from washington, mark halperin, mike barnicle and lee a gallagher are all back with us. senator, good to see you. >> thanks. >> going to talk budgets in a minute. what's happened since your testimony back then, pretty gripping and stunning stuff you have been talking about. >> i have been working on this as have some of my colleagues for a number of years and i want to make sure that we look at the rules of military justice and address what appears to be an outlier, nonetheless, completely unacceptable. that is the notion that after a jury trial, a commander can, without even having a reason, i mean, the rules actually say for any reason or no reason at all can overturn a jury's

conviction, i think we need to take a look at that i spent a couple hours pentagon yesterday working on this. i have got a meeting today with the general of the air force, general welsh, in my office. and then we have a hearing all day tomorrow on this topic and i'm going to stay at this until we hopefully get a piece of justice for a whole lot of women thought that frankly, many of whom are just afraid to even come forward because of the way this crime has traditionally been treated within the military. >> do you think secretary hagel will make any difference here? >> well, in fact, i questioned secretary panetta about this when he was confirmed and i will say i was with some great prosecutors at the pentagon yesterday. i think the army is really on this. they are trying to turn around this culture, be much more aggressive of this crime i want to make sure this is true across all the branches and we look at the rule notice ucmj, which is the code for military justice, and make sure they make sense

around this crime. >> so i mean, it's shocking, i am sure to a lot of americans watching this morning that you can have somebody convicted with a crime -- charge wad crimes, go you a threw all the evidentiary hearings, go through the trial itself, you can go through close, you can turn it over to the jury, the jury can go back, they can deliberate, they can come back out after a long drip racial, determining the fate of somebody's life, they can come down with a ruling and then a general can just overturn it with a signature for no reason at all what do you hear the justification of that to be in the pentagon? >> well, tradition clirk the convening authority is what it's called, it's the commander of the unit you has it complete control at every step of the process and obviously, this is for the good and discipline of the unit. but this clearly is jarring and it offends all of our sense of

what's right in this country about our rule of law. that's why we have to take a look at it. i think the hearing tomorrow will be very important. a number of us plan on camping out for the day at this hearing and trying to see if we can't get after this in many ways, not just are we going after these cases you but what kind of environment are we creating for women that allowed them to come forward with this crime. >> while we are talking outrageous, more americans died in afghanistan yesterday, over the past week and yet we continue to send young americans to fight and die for a government that now is accusing us of being in cahoots with the taliban after karzai himself said he might side with the taliban. senator, this -- all of this nonsense, this outrage, actually, won't be an excuse for the united states to continue

its endless war in afghanistan, will it? >> no. it will not. i think the president's been very clear that we are going to get out of there and -- by next year, we will be in a much different posture in afghanistan, which is good. >> will you oppose any troop extensions past next year if we -- if somebody comes -- says the troops need to stay another 18 months? >> i would oppose troop extensions unless there is some dramatic change on the ground that would dictate something differently. s if the's is like it is right now, of course i would oppose that what i'm going to be watching for, joe, how many contractors are we leaving on the ground? we have built an army for afghanistan they can't afford. so, how is this going to work going forward? how much are tax payers in this country going to still be on the line for building highways and power grid for karzai who is clearly off the reservation now? we have been their gdp in afghanistan for the last several years and if we are no longer

there, you know, i want to make sure that american taxpayers have the full picture of what we may be asked to continue to do to support this guy that clearly doesn't appreciate what we've done. >> senator, mark halperin, you think forward rest of the year, a number of democratic colleagues have tough vote in all likelihood, on budget issues, immigration and gun control you have just come through re-election in a red/purple state that end up not being as tough as you might have expected what advice do you have for democrats who are going to have these tough votes in states were voting with the president may hurt them at home? >> i don't think it is a matter of voting with the president. i always would tell my colleagues to vote what they believe in in terms of the principles that are at stake and then defend those votes. you know, and we have got good news. i mean, on the other side, it's a mess. i mean, they are -- they really have a civil war in their party right now. joe, your guys are fighting with each other. you've got people who are willing to compromise and who

understand the beauty of comp plom nice our democracy and then you have people like ted cruz and some of the others that just think that they want to drive as hard as they can off the right edge of the world. the reason i could win, they nominated a flawed candidate that could win. it wasn't todd akin said, but what he believed. >> con grad lines bankrolling the efforts to let everybody in missouri know exactly what todd akin believed. i think we have extremes on both sides. think we are moving towards a deal. >> you know this bunnell that's ryan put out will help us move towards a deal. we are talking past each other on the budget. the house -- he put out a budget that is not credible outside of his own caucus. the democrats will probably put out a budget in the senate that

can't pass the house. maybe the president can come in and make a deal with long-term debt, not short-term deficit. >> i think the democratic budget that goes on the floor is probably not a budget that most of the people in missouri would support either. >> you know about that. >> these political documents -- we will see. somebody in 2014 talking about $1 trillion in new taxes in missouri, missouri, either one of the states. >> here is the thing really ironic about this ryan budget, and i really think it is important to make this points, you realize the number one attack on democrats across the country last november, number one, in every campaign in florida, in the presidential, was the medicare cuts to providers in obama care what did ryan do, he didn't say repeal all of obama care, repeal the benefits, keep those same cuts that you they campaigned against.

it is one of the most blatant acts of being disingenuous around politics in this country that i have ever seen. >> i look forward to the democratic budget. >> senator, speaking of trillions of dollars and flashing back now to afghanistan, where we know what we have lost in terms of lives, the tragic loss of lives, pallets of cash have been deliver neared bagram air force base in the 12 year we have been there. when or if are we going to get an accounting, the american taxpayers, going to get an accounting the amount of money that has been looted, stolen, by the afghan political hierarchy? >> well, we aren't doing cash like we did in iraq and even the early years of afghanistan. they have changed, we have made some progress on contracting and some of the excesses that cost our country probably north of $60 billion in waste and fraud in iraq, wither doing better

there are still problems, part of that is we are trying to build stuff in a country where we don't have a secure environment there are instances were we have had to pay off the bad guys just to protect contractors to build a highway. yo know why we are infrastructure building in the middle of us trying to do a war. i don't know understand where we thought that was a good idea it is nation building. you can try to dress it up and take it out, but it is nation building and we have enough roads and bridges to build over here. we need to stop building stuff that they can't afford or sustain in these host nations. >> all right. senator claire mccaskill, as always, it is great to have you on the show. thank you very much. >> thank you, senator. >> thanks, joe. up next, yahoo!'s ceo marissa meyer is back in the news, now taking flack from her own employees over tough hiring standard. that's next in business. we will be right back. this day calls you.

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a time for business before the bell. look at times square on this rainy tuesday afternoon. yahoo! ceo marissa meyer is

taking heat from her own employees. her employees said in a staff meeting that they wonder whether her hiring practices keep them from getting top candidates. she said she only accepts applicants from prestigious universities. >> how horrible. accepting applicants from prestigious universities. >> i used to work at a police like that. >> nothing wrong with that. >> those people, not sure, maybe she needs to hire new people because they are all just poking at her. that place, let me till something, needs someone to come in and lead, maybe down the want it. i don't know if she is the one, they certainly don't want her there >> she has come in and led, if you look at the stock, marissa meyer's job is not to serve as a role model for women, her job to turn that company around it desperately needed it, they were very happy to have her there she has turned the stock around 30%. this hiring practicing, a famous

way, bringing with hear lot of her google ways and google is famous for not only hiring from prestigious university bus use numbers to crunch everything, your gpa, everything and they are ruthless about it. and she is bringing that same culture there. >> and lot of backbiting going on. again, you have got a company, yahoo! been in trouble for years, their stock has been going down for years, their market share going down for years, their prospects going down for years. she seems to be turning this place around. >> she is. this is surprising, the most part what i'm hearing is that people are very happy to have her there, even with all the kerfuffle about the need to work in the office policy. much of the criticism was from the outside. people at yahoo! this is a fraught topic, but a lot of people are very happy she is there to stay mildly. >> how long has she been there? >> she has been there six months last fall, under a year. under a year. yeah. yeah. >> last october. >> nobody works harder than marissa meyer, i will say.

>> you know if she's fantastic what the she does but they are not going to give her a chance to find out. >> she took over the edsel of internet companies, yahoo! mail, anybody using yahoo! mail, a joke, you wouldn't read the e-mail. she wants to turn the company around. >> by the way, mika has yahoo! e-mail. >> whenever this happens with a woman in business, the woman is usually described as, oh, she's tough. it's a positive when it's applied to a guy. when it's applied a woman, oh, oh. >> yeah. double standard >> >> something wrong there. something doesn't seem right. coming up next, does america have a problem with god? rob bell, found over the mars hill bible megachurch thinks so. he will join us next with his new book. [ male announcer ] at his current pace, bob will retire when he's 153,

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all right. a live shot of the vatican, may get news tomorrow, or maybe not. here with us, best-selling author and founding pastor of the mars hill bible megachurch, pastor rob bell. he is out with his latest book, what we talk about when we talk about god. >> you know, mining, i know you were our resident, you and meachum, resident theologian. >> that's correct. >> and i know that i can ask you this question, the answer will be zero. how many -- how many books about god begin with a quote from tom wa waits? >> like all great things in the world, women and religion and the sky, you wonder about it and you don't stop wondering about it. son there you go.

rob, thank you so much for being with us. you say that you talk about how god doesn't come up much in culture, but when it do does, a lot of times, the precon accept, the religion, not only gets in the way but does harm. >> think what you have now, this unique time and culture, off lot of people who have a sense there's more going on here. so your kid is born or you're out in nature around you see something overwhelmingly beautiful or you have a meal with your friends and you have a sense this can't be all there is and very popular voices that say this is it. you are a random collection of neurons, atoms and synapses that doesn't work for a loft people. leave them, talking about in the book, cold, bored and uninspired. you go looking for ex-explanations, jayne fonda, always quote jane fonda when talking about religion. >> i'm drawn in now. >> asked why did you become a person of faith? because i could sense reverence humming in me.

so they give a lot of people who have the sense of reverence humming in them, the denial this is just a random collection of biology, then you go looking for an explanation and you get the god who is like oldsmobile, that was nice back then but come on, we have science, we have technology, we have iphones n this book, i'm trying to address are there ray weighs to talk about this referen reverence. >> a branding makeover. >> you know if god need my help in that sort of thing, positioning. >> crass to be rebranding or what -- why did you flinch? >> actually language we use now. people -- >> it's a good thing. >> people have been doing this for house to sands of years. this is one of our jobs as human also, we ask big questions. that's what we do. any faith that's worth anything should have lots of room for doubt and struggle and questions and even saying we used to think that way, now we don't.

>> you've used the word, at least four or five times now in the space of a minute and a half. define reverence, what is this rev vers ar s are reverence that jane fonda referred to? >> it is what it is but it is beyond itself a great meal with friends and you say to the host, that was transcendent. >> i have never said that. >> ha ha. >> better dinner party. >> may have talked about your soul story. you may have talked about how that thing took you higher. we have -- it's very sort of metaphor cal, mythical language, essentially, we have the sense that there is this thing in front of us, this experience, yet it seems to take us higher. >> i want to talk about this branding thing, i'm actually talking about it in the republican party a bit. i gave a talk to republicans and i got the nastiest, you and -- going after me because i tried to discourage republicans from

openly antagonizing voters. whether we are talking about a party or god or selling french fries, right? you -- it doesn't matter if mcdonald's makes the best french fries, if somebody screams at me every time i order french fries from mcdonald's, i'm going to go to burger king. you actually, with your last book, "love wins", a separation from some people, traditionalists, but you said, hey, we got to put a smile on our face. we have to give a more congenial view of god and religion, not telling people to fudge on the big issues but just to say we need to figure out a way to approach this for most percentage i say the break really came in the late '80s, early '90s, all the televangelists blowing up and there was a hardening ande inin

believed in faith, the teachings of jesus christ, so much of it just got crowded out. >> think about your own life and how you grow and change and become a better person. is it because somebody scared the hell out of you, shame you had or condemned you or because somebody gave you a better vision for a better way to live. a friend talked about it a desire for a better way to live you don't didn't know how to hunger for. who here wouldn't want to learn to have less worry, be more generous. and that, to me, a better kind of life. >> you actually -- there were some people who didn't appreciate your message in "love wins." >> people who haven't appreciated my message from way back. i come from the christian tradition, jesus was put on the cross by very religious people because he is threaten an entire

system coming into question. >> do you believe in heaven and hell and an afterlife? >> i do. i do and i begin with a belief that right now the choices we make have serious implications. we are creating hells on earth right now, 800 million people don't have access to clean drinking water. we have across the spectrum as humans, i begin with jesus called how you live now creates acertain sort of heaven and earth right here. i don't even have to look past death for that sort of thing. >> yeah, i was -- my pastor a couple weeks ago said something that -- along those lines said don't wait for judgment day because, guess what -- it's already here. >> millions and millions of people, judgment day happens every day, what are you doing to help people in their struggles? >> well said. >> yeah. >> the book is "what we talk about when we talk about god." i think we tried to figure that out right here. rob bell, thank you. >> thank you, rob. >> great to be with you. >> we appreciate it.

my son, andrew is a huge fan. >> a huge fan. >> tell him i said hi >> >> andrew will be very happy to hear that. coming up, best of late night, including mayor michael bloomberg paying a visit to david letterman on the late show. [ male announcer ] when it comes to the financial obstacles military families face, we understand. our financial advice is geared specifically to current and former military members and their families. life brings obstacles. usaa brings retirement advice. if your a man with low testosterone, you should know that axiron is here. the only underarm treatment for low t. that's right, the one you apply to the underarm. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18. axiron can transfer to others through direct contact. women, especially those who are or who may become pregnant, and children should avoid contact where axiron is applied as unexpected signs of puberty in children or changes

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