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good morning. i'm chris jansing. it's almost time. in just a few hours, cardinals will begin the ancient ritual of choosing the next pope. you can actually feel the tension, the anxiety, and the excitement. the bells are tolling, it so must be the top of the hour. today, it begins. now, this morning, already, all the cardinals, even those over 80 who won't vote, gathered together inside st. peter's basilica for a mass. they prayed for divine help, for inspiration, and for guidance to choose a successor to pope benedict xvi. next hour the cardinals will swear an oath before filing into the sistine chapel, and then late today, those cardinals will vote for the first time. but donate expect to see white smoke coming from the chimney today. it's almost like a test vote. hard to say if there's a front-runner. betting money is no. but there are at least two cardinals getting a lot of buzz.

angelo scola, an italian, who was close to pope benedict, and an american, cardinal sean o'malley of boston, he's getting a lot of support from latin america cardinals, who think their part of the world has been largely ignored by rome. who else to watch and what else to look for coming up later. as the public politics ends and the very private voting begins. but the big political news coming out of washington right now, paul ryan's budget. he'll do the official unveiling at 10:30, but we have some details now. it balances the budget, he says, in ten years, by cutting $4.6 trillion during that decade. and there is no new revenue. the plan also assumes the repeal of the president's health care law, the approval of the keystone pipeline, and it opens federal lands for drilling. major changes for medicare and medicaid. by 2024, medicaid patients would be able to choose between medicaid and a private plan. it also includes means testing

for wealthy seniors. as for medicaid, that becomes part of a block grant program that would be administered by states. let me bring in "usa today's" washington bureau chief, susan page, and perry bacon. i want to start with paul ryan who laid out a lot of details in this op-ed in the "wall street journal" today. here's part of what he writes. "the truth is, the nation's death is a sign of overreach. government is trying to do too much, and when government does too much, it doesn't do anything well. so a balanced budget is a reasonable goal, because it returns government to its proper limits and focus." this seems, susan, pretty consistent with the position that republicans have had. so is there more a statement of what the republicans want, sort of a show piece here? >> it's interesting, chris, we've seen in the last week or two some better, more bipartisan, conciliatory rhetoric from both sides when it comes to the budget issue. but when it comes to the

specific of what both side is proposing, i don't think we've really seen them come closer together. this budget that congressman ryan is putting out today is the same budget that republicans would have put out a year -- in fact, it's a tougher one, because it reaches a balanced budget in ten years, which is the budget he's put out the last couple of years, has not. so while, you know, the music is a little sweeter in washington, the lyrics are just the same as we've been hearing for the last couple of years. and in that time, there's been really no conciliation, no compromise, no agreement on a budget plan for the country. >> and perry, kind of keeping with that analogy, the democrats would argue it shows a tone deafness, because as susan says, when you talk about repealing health care, talk about the keystone pipeline, drilling on federal land, these are the same things they were talking about a year ago, as if the election, the democrats say, didn't exist. it also makes a lot of assumptions. so is this really even a serious starting point? >> this is not really a starting on the. this is a document that

basically lays out, here are the republican principles the party already agreed to. paul ryan laid out a very similar budget not just last year, but in 2010 and 2011 as well. the shows really -- this is the same budget he's put out over and over again, in part because the republicans don't necessarily agree on anything broader than these ideas. the reason he keeps saying, we need to repeal obama care, for instance, is that's one of the few things that all republicans really agree upon. that's an easy thing to say, as opposed to a grand bargain that the president's talking about, a lot of republicans don't agree on what it should look like. >> we know the president is heading to capitol hill today to meet with senate democrats who will put their budget out later this week, susan. he's also going to meet with house republicans. if both the house and the senate at least have budget plans, though, is that a good sign? >> you know, it's amazing, the senate has not passed a budget since 2009. you know, it's something, it's like the fundamentals of government that you pass a budget, as house republicans have been pointing out.

but now, patty murray is coming out with a budget in the next 24 hours, the chairman of the senate budget committee. we think the senate, i talked to senator tammy baldwin yesterday. she said, they'll pass a senate budget in the senate by the end of next week. i think that does show some movement, some seriousness on the part of democrats on capitol hill. there is, you know, after going from fiscal cliff to fiscal cliff, for the past couple of years, i think there is an appetite to try to get on some kind of longer term plan for government spending, so that we don't have a crisis a month the way we've been having it. >> i want to bring in steve forbes, who is editor in chief of forbes, and former presidential candidate, always good to see you. good morning. >> good to see you, chris. >> in today's "washington post," eugene robinson wrote this. "ryan and mitt romney offered their vision. president obama offered his. and americans made their choice, rather emphatically." when you see the budget that paul ryan is putting out, does it show that he's or the

republicans are in denial? is this budget proof of that? >> no. the fact that we still have a fiscal crisis shows that real steps have to be taken in the next few years. and i think there's a feeling, although they won't state it too publicly on the part of republicans, that the standard-bearer, governor romney in the last election, did not put these proposals out there in a consistent way that you need to do if you're going to persuade public opinion. so i think they're setting the groundwork for 2014. and one of the things you're going to see really hammered on in terms of medicare is that there's going to be absolutely no change in medicare for the next ten or so years. and after that, if you still want medicare, you can have it. if you want a private plan, you can have it. they're sort of taking off on medicare part "d," what they call a medicare alternative, where millions of people have gone on that with private plans and found they're very happy with it, and the drug plan, where you have competition too, there's a lot of happiness with that. so the republicans think this can be not portrayed just as cutting, but as actually giving

people more choices, like federal workers do. >> there's a headline in politico today, i don't know if you saw it, but it says, "is he serious?" and basically asks if the president really wants to make a deal with republicans. and we certainly have heard from republicans who have met with him in the last couple of weeks, in what's been called his charm offensive. saying that the conversations have been good. do you think that hae's going t go the extra mile? do you see room for compromise here? >> we'll sea what the senate does, they'll take their cues from the white house. there's the sense that president obama hasn't really wanted a deal, that he likes this level of spend, so the president has to put out somethinging that he wants to make substantial changes. you almost think that wheelchairs were invented to throw granny off a cliff. there are a lot of positive things to change these terms long-term that does not affect those who are on these programs today. and on medicaid, block granting

it, we saw welfare reform starting with wisconsin in the early '80s, going into the mid-'90s, set the state for a national change. states can come up with very innovative ways to do these programs in more efficient and better ways than what the feds have done. >> let me switch gears, if i can, and talk about guns. today the senate judiciary committee could pass an assault weapons ban and limit high-capacity magazines. i know that you in the past have been a second amendment supporter and i'm wondering if the tragedy in newtown changed your views is at all, as it did for so many americans, and where do you stand now? >> in terms of the assault ban, we tried that for ten years, and all the research shows that it absolutely really no effect at all. what i think the emphasis should be, instead of new gun laws, yes, you can tighten up in terms of background checks and the like, there's real work that has to be done there, but the real focus has to be on s schizophrenia. the ideas that we have people who are seriously mentally ill that are wondering our streets, we would not do that with people with alzheimer's, but a lot of

these mass murders are done by people who are severely sick. they should be treated instead of wandering around on the streets. and i think research there would go a long ways in dealing with these mass murderers. and that's where the focus should be. >> steve forbes, it's good to have you on the program. >> thank you. >> thank you so much. >> susan, we know all these bills will probably pass out of committee, because there's a democratic majority here, but when you listen to steve forbes, he certainly doesn't sound like newtown changed his mind. and it seemed like background checks lost a little steam last week, when senator tom coburn walked away. handicap the chances, will you, for these various bills right now? >> well, you're there at the vatican. i think divine intervention would probably help get some kind of gun legislation passed. look, we knew from the start that it's going to be a heavy lift to get anything through, passed both the house and the senate. the house, especially, a problem. we've seen a little bit of bipartisan negotiation going on in the house, but not much.

this is an issue on which republicans, especially in the house, have been pretty firm. republicans in the house represent districts that tend to be very solidly -- congressmen from both parties represent districts that tend to be very solidly, one way or the other. so that kind of national mood and support of gun control is not something that's really a factor for a lot of republican house members. i think anything getting any gun legislation through the house continues to be difficult, maybe not impossible, but tough. >> so, perry, the fact that background checks, for example, still has a huge majority. i think the new poll out today shows that 91% support it. and even a majority support the assault weapons ban. has too much time passed? are there too many members of congress in safe districts? what do you think? >> you still have not seen a lot of republicans. you can count the number of republicans on one hand in the house that have supported any kind of gun control. what you've seen is two things happen. one, the sort of momentum or

energy around gun control after newtown has kind of dissipated. it's not in the media as much, not in newspapers locally as much. republicans don't feel as much to do anything about it, even despite those poll numbers. you saw in the house and in the senate last week, tom coburn dropped out of the background discussions, discussions about background checks. so right now if you handicap, assault weapons ban seems very difficult to pass. high-capacity magazine ban, very hard to pass. almost no republicans support that. you have a still republicans still open additional background checks, but even there, and you even have some conservative democrats that are not really behind background checks. so i think you'll have to see the president and joe biden will sort of reengage this issue to sort of move it along. because right now it's a bit stalled in congress. >> perry bacon and susan page, always good to see both of you. thanks so much. >> thanks, chris. a big blow to new york city mayor michael bloomberg's ban on those giant sugary drinks. it was supposed to go into effect today, but a judge struck it down, saying the 16-ounce

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welcome back to "jansing and co.," live from the vatican. and the countdown to the conclave is now measured in minutes, not days. the overt politics ending, the covert job of picking a new pope

begins. we will see the voting cardinals twice before they go into seclusion, in about half an hour or so, they'll be heading to the pauline chapel for prayers and then there will be a formal procession to the sistine chapel, where they'll swear that oath of secrecy. this morning, all 115 voting cardinals celebrated a final mass that drew thousands to st. peter's basilica. and they heard their final plea for unity. and here's the stunning development this morning. there are two americans now considered to have a real shot at leading the catholic church, even as a new poll out today finds that 60% of american catholics describe the church as out of touch with their views. 78% disapprove of the handling of the sex abuse crisis. that is the highest and strongest disapproval since this all came to light a decade ago. i'm joined now by nbc news vatican analyst, george weigel. lindsay joyce and david felton are on a pilgrimage to rome. they've canceled all their plans

and they're waiting for the election of a new pope. it's good to have all of you here. thanks so much. so, george, it feels no me from like 2 1/2 weeks ago, or so, when i was hear, when benedict stepped down, it's like the ground has shifted, for the people who are really sort of coming into play. >> i think coalitions have formed around particular candidates. there's been a winnowing down of the field, as these cardinals have considered what really are the issues facing the church today. how do they get a grip on. the rmp of the roman curia, and how do they put a positive, compelling face on the catholic church after several weeks of bludgeoning, frankly. >> do we know how they'll prioritize those things? if you look at the catholic church in america, we are very concerned about things like the sex abuse crisis. we talk a lot about married priests and women priests, which is not necessarily in line with what those cardinals who will go into the conclave are prioritizing. >> those cardinals stepping into

the sistine chapel this evening, looking at the christ of the last judgment, are asking a primarily question about every candidate they're assessing. is this a man of god? is this someone who can, by his person, as well as his words, share the church's faith in jesus christ? that's the threshold test. then the question becomes, is this someone who can manage a global constitution of 1.2 billion people, or perhaps more to the point, shrewdly find someone who can do that for him, while he becomes the st. paul of the 21st century. >> so lyndsy and david, you're here representing all american catholics. but you're from st. louis, to that's got to mean you're for cardinal dolan? >> we are. >> yes, we, the collective we. tell me why, i know you had a lot of things planned this week, when you come to italy. you had planned to go to museums, but you all decideded up to be in rome for the

conclave. why? >> i mean, it's history in the making. it's just -- there's just not words sometimes to describe what we've seen and experienced, i think in the past couple of days here in rome. >> well, you were at that mass this morning and i know you took some photos. tell me what it was like in there? >> for me, it was a very humbling and moving experiences the to see all these cardinals walk down the aisle. we were right on the aisle there, as you can see. you could just feel the excitement. like, the cardinals are excited, the people are excited. we're just ready. >> david, how did you score those seats? >> it was a wonderful experience. and you realize the seriousness of the election of a pope, not only as the head of the catholic church, but in my view, as the head of christianity. he's a representative of christianity, throughout the world. and he has to stand strong, and yet be humble. like pope john paul ii was.

>> is that what you're looking for? because a lot of people have talked about somebody who has that pastoral ability. when you would see him in front of a crowd, and i saw him everywhere from st. louis to jerusalem, there was something about his persona, even if you seemed to be hundreds of yards back in the crowd, that he just radiated something. >> he needs to be a man of christ, first of all. and he needs to exemplify it in his life and in everything he does. but he also needs to have that combination of humility and compassion, and yet a strong ability to stand up, when he sees something wrong, make the correction, whether within the church or outside of the church, and have the moral authority to have everybody follow him, because he's the leader. >> is the sex abuse crisis in the states something that's weighed on you? >> oh, it's of deep concern. sex abuse is something that happens in all professions and in all walks of life, and it happens to be a very strong

issue in the catholic church, because of the representation of religion in association with abuse. it's one of the most deeply concerning aspects that one could have with sex abuse. but there's way more to the pope's importance than straightening out a problem of this nature. >> we know there are broad problems that the new pope is going to face, from what happened at the vatican bank to, as you say, the bureaucracy at the vatican. what happens in that room, george? how does it work? >> well, tonight's vote will be an exchange of compliments. >> but do they talk to each other? >> no, no. in the sistine chapel, there's just voting, period. tonight's vote will be an exchange of compliments. the serious business begins tomorrow morning. and i would think by late tomorrow or early thursday, you're going to get a winnowing out of candidates, so that we

might have, might have an election by the end of the week. let me say one other thing, though, here, chris. and that is that this pope that's being chosen, who's being chosen, needs to lift up and affirm all of the good things the that are happening in the catholic church, as well as addressing certain obvious problems. there's an immense vitality to catholicism around the world, and the pope needs to encourage that. and the pope needs to be the public face of that. so that we're not simply seeing crisis, scandal, mismanagement, et cetera. we're seeing people alive with the face of jesus christ. >> george weigel is going to be with us throughout this process, however long it takes. and, thanks to both of you. lindsay and david, enjoy your time here. and we appreciate you coming up and talking to us for a little time. thank you. in our next half hour, we do expect the cardinals to move from their residence to the pauline chapel and then eventually to the sistine chapel to start the conclave. we'll also talk about the pressure they're under.

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no raising taxes. and it promises to repeal obama care. at the same time, senate democrats are putting the finishing touches on a budget they'll unveil tomorrow. we will bring you congressman ryan's remarks when he gets started. but for now, let's bring in jill zuckman. tony fratto is former bush white house deputy press secretary. it's good to see both of you. tony, let me start with you, because you've been involved in these budget negotiations. where do you even begin, and how, when it seems like you're going to have two budgets this far apart, can you start to look for compromise? >> well, you're right, it's tough. and it's tough when you have, in our system, when you're trying to do a budget with one house controlled by one party and the other house controlled by the other party. and what you're going to end up, with budget proposals, are really aspirational documents that are probably dead on arrival in the other house. and that's where we are right now. but hopefully where they are, if

there's enough goodwill on both sides to hopefully get a budget resolution that they can work on together, and compromise on. because, otherwise, chris, we're at risk of having, you know, more hopes than budgets over the past, you know, four or five years. so, it would be nice if they can get together and actually negotiate a budget. >> well, paul ryan has come to the podium. he's just started talking. let's listen for a few minutes. >> we believe that we owe the american people a balanced budget. and for the third straight year, we've delivered. in fact, we balanced this budget in just ten years. this is a document, a plan that balances the budget in ten years. now, the house budget committee has spent the last several weeks working together with each other, just like families and businesses do around the country. we've been assembling a budget so that we can make sure that our country can live within its means. it's a reasonable gold, balancing the budget. and we keep spending money -- we can't just keep spending money we don't have. that's the basic acknowledgement, when you're

budgeting, just like families and businesses do, that you cannot continue to kick the can down the road, that you cannot continue to spend money that we just don't have. how do we do this? we cut wasteful spending. we repair the safety net, so that we can help those in need. we protect and strengthen key priorities, like medicare, a program that's going bankrupt, that's jeopardizing the health and security for millions of american securities. and we foster a healthier economy, so that we can create jobs and grow more wages. you see, balancing the budget is not simply an act of arithmetic. not just getting expenditures and revenues to add up. balancing the budget is a means to an end, a means to a healthier economy, a pro-growth society, a pro-growth economy that delivers opportunity. that is first and foremost why we are doing this. let me walk through a couple of the charts, if i could, and if this thing works. there we go. now, here's essentially what we do to begin with. this budget cuts spending by $4.6 trillion over the next -- >> and so paul ryan, who is

talking about the balanced budget, but the devil, of course, is in the details, including the repeal of obama care. let me lay for you something from missouri senator claire mccaskill, who was critical of paul ryan's proposal. >> he put out a budget that's not credible, outside of his own caucus. the democrats will probably put out a budget in the senate that can't pass the house. so maybe, after that has occurred, that creates the environment where the president can come in and make the big deal, which is about long-term debt, not short-term deficit. >> jill, could claire mccaskill be right? could this be where, once these two budgets are out there, president obama jumps in, and then he's the one who helps to find the middle ground? >> well, chris, it would be nice to think that that could happen. but i think what these two budgets show, once again, is how dysfunctional congress is. and how much trouble the two parties are having getting it together. i mean, it's their responsibility to work together and to come up a budget that

works for both chambers and can get to the president's desk. but that's just not something that i think we're going to see. and i think one of the problems with the ryan budget is that it doesn't deal in reality. obama care is here to stay. you've got republican governors around the country, who have accepted it, and it just doesn't make sense, to be trying to cut that at this point. >> and we're already seeing that his budget is fodder for 2014. i mean, the democratic committee is targeting 14 house republicans who are running or who are considering a run for senate. the dsc executive director, guy cecil, told reporters that these lawmakers are, quote, preparing to walk the plank on the new republican budget. we plan on holding them accountable. you're laughing, tony, but could there be a price to pay for republicans? >> i don't think so. look, these are the same republicans who most of whom have won through two election cycles on a very similar budget already. so, look, i think -- i laugh,

because that's exactly what's wrong with washington right now, by the way. is that any time anybody goes out and takes a forceful position, tyou have the other political side taking ad hominem attacks on that and we'll make them pay in campaign. if that's the way we're going to do things here, we're never going to get done and be stuck with the same kind of budgeting we've had for the last three or four years, which is at the point of crisis. and that's not good for the country. that's no way to run a big, modern government. >> we know the priorities of both sides, republicans don't want any new taxes. democrats want to limit any entitlement changes. that just even begins to touch the surface. so what's the best way to make their case. i'm wondering, for example, the president has had success taking his arguments on the road. is that the way to success? >> well, he's trying it this way, because in the past, when the president has traveled to capitol hill and tried to meet with members, he's gotten mired

down in the details. and the members of congress don't complain about him and the public feels like there's no progress being made, so he's trying to stay above the fray a little bit. i think what you wind up, though, is more of a continuing resolution. let's just extend the budget the way it's always been and not make any big changes. and as tony said, that's no way to run a modern government. it's a real problem for the agencies. >> jill zuckman, tony fratto, good to see both of you. thanks. >> thanks, chris. checking the news feed this morning, five americans were killed when their helicopter crashed in afghanistan overnight. officials are investigating the cause of the crash, but initial reports indicate there was no enemy activity in the area. more tension this morning on the korean peninsula, where kim jong-un visited north korean front line troops, urging them to be on high alert for possible war. a state-run newspaper report

says that pyongyang canceled a 60-year-old armistice that ended the korean war, but a u.n. spokesperson says they can't unilaterally dissolve it. the u.s. is vowing to protect its allies in the region. the man accused of killing 12 people and injuring dozens of others in a colorado movie theater will be in court next hour. 25-year-old james holmes is expected to enter a formal plea, eight months after the mass shooting. experts expect him to plead not guilty by reason of insanity. a website has posted what appears to be the social security numbers and other personal information of vice president joe biden, michelle obama, hillary clinton among others. nbc's pete williams reports, some of the information is out of date, but other data does appear to be accurate. personal information from celebrities like jay-z, beyonce, and kim kardashian also was compromised. the fbi, the secret service, and the lapd are investigating. "u.s. news & world report" is out with its list of the

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we're back live with "jansing and co." immigration reform will be on president obama's agenda as he continues his outreach with rank and file senate democrats today. he'll be house republicans tomorrow. last hour, homeland security secretary janet napolitano addressed the nation's mayors at their annual conference, where she pushed for comprehensive changes. >> i think we're all frustrated by a system that treats a drug smuggler the same as a high-achieving young person. i think we're all frustrated by a system that seems to make no sense. >> meantime, some members of the bipartisan gang of eight senators are pushing back against a report that they've reached a deal on one of the thorniest issues, a path to citizenship for some 11 million illegal immigrants. let me bring in nbc latino contributor and "usa today" columnist, raul reyes.

good morning, raul. >> good morning, chris. >> let me get a lay of the land first. are we at a place now there's more open to some sort of reform than we were say, a year or six months ago? >> oh, absolutely. the electoral mathematics has changed, a direct result of the election, you know, and the republican reversal on the whole immigration issue. and also, one big thing that's quite different, you know, as we're going forward, with this issue, the momentum is clearly on the side of reform. you know, there are bumps in the road, as we see the path to citizenship, other things, but moment is absolutely on the side of reform. and the voices against reform, there's always been debates, but i would say they're much more marginalized now than they were a year ago, and certainly more than they were in 2007. >> the initial reporting on this gang of eight proposal, although some of them are pushing back against it, looks like this. you'd have to register with the homeland security department,

fire federal income taxes for time in the u.s., pay a fine, have a clean criminal record. is this -- does this sound like a good starting point for both sides? >> yes, absolutely. i believe most of the latino community, most people who are involved, you know, on behalf of immigrants, immigrant advocates, do accept this. we have to be careful that we don't make this proposal too punitive. but the framework that they have, it does look good. because it's realistic. it has to be accessible. i think, later on, we are going to see a sticking point, maybe, again, some bumps in the road about the actual levels, you know, of the fines themselves. but one problem with the immigration reform, the amnesty that we did under the reagan administration in 1976 is that many people did not take advantage it, because the fees were too high. when we talk about the undocumented, we are talking about people, the great majority of people who are living below subsistence level.

so to say that they might have to pay, say, a $1,000 fine or even $2,000, that's going to be out of reach for many. however, what we're seeing so far, the framework is looking good. >> and real quickly, what do you see the president's role as in all of this? i know they called the arizona republican, jeff flake yesterday, he's one of the gang of eight. how does president obama fit into these negotiations? >> i think president obama, with so far, is wisely staying out of it. he's over seeing it, maybe, as the god father, if you will, but i think he understands that he cannot get too involved at this point, because that would poison the atmosphere among many of the house republicans, who, they're the sticking point in this debate. we all these their support for immigration reform. and i think the president, so far, is taking a hands off approach. maybe doing some behind the scenes work and let things progress. as i said, the momentum is there. it's happening. >> nbc latino raul reyes, thank you so much for being with us. >> and today's tweet of the day

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well, welcome back to "jansing and co." we are live once again at the vatican. and the anticipation is building, because in just a few minutes, we expect to see the cardinals, the 115 voting cardinals, leave the $20 million guest house and make their way to the pauline chapel. there'll be some prayer there. and then there will be a formal procession to the sistine chapel, where we will take that oath that we have been talking about, an oath of secrecy, breaking it, punishable by excommunication. the doors will close and be sealed and we will get underway with the super-secret vote for a new pope. joining me now, father john bartunic, and elizabeth lev here

in rome. father, i don't know if this is a skill you've been asked to have before, which is mind reader, but what do you imagine is going through the minds of these cardinals as they're heading into the sistine chapel in just about an hour or so. >> it's a great question. i think we get kind of a glimpse into the cardinal's minds. if we look at the words that cardinal sodanal used during the homily of the has this morning, all the cardinals were there together, praying together, and cardinal sodanal focused on the most important things. he said, the new pope has to be is a man of great faith, has to be a man that can be a foundation of unity for the church, and has to be able to communicate and live the message of love. and i think that's what the cardinals are thinking. they're thinking about the big things, the important things. >> we were talking a little earlier in the program, liz, to a couple of american who is just happened to be here, and so decided to cancel all their sightseeing and they're just going to it what for the smoke. but they were saying they were at the mass this morning and they felt sort of the seriousness of it. you know, we've been talking a

lot about the inside baseball, but you have to think, that especially for the 67, the majority of them have never done this before and really don't know exactly what to expect. >> i was thinking, there must be a few butterflies in there. this is such a momentous occasion. a sense of nervousness and knowing that what they will do in these next few hours and these next few day is so terribly important. and not just for now, but they are also making part to have that history of the church. we see each stone piled on top of the other in these buildings. they're making another one of these stones that will be part of the history of the church. >> and joe dryingel was saying, basically all that goes on there is voting. you're not looking at the parliament, where they're yelling at each other. but it hasn't always been that way. some of these conclaves have been wevery, very long. cardinals have died because the votes took so long, right? >> yes. and a lot of it has to do the conditions. and one of the reasons why

there's now this hotel where the cardinals stay, because the old arrangement, sometimes bunk beds, little cubicles, bathrooms very far away. it's a shame for our historians, because we got a lot of art patrons who went from these nice, cushy houses into these horrible conditions and died during the conclave. >> let's talk a little bit about how the idea that we are in a new world with the decision by benedict to step down could change their thinking. aye heard two arguments. one is, it makes the them more likely to have a young pope, because he doesn't necessarily have to serve for decades pinpoint makes them more likely to vote for an older cardinal, because then he can retire when he's not feeling so good anymore. do you think the decision by pope benedict plays into this at all? >> i can't imagine that they're not thinking about it. even in the homily again this morning, in the mass, he referenced pope benedict and the service that he's given. i can't imagine that they're not thinking about it. but i think that maybe what they're thinking is maybe not,

isn't going to set a trend, isn't going to set a precedent. that may not be what's in their mind. personally, i think it might make them remember that the papacy about more than just the individual man, who's occupying the papacy. it's about an office that we catholics believe that was established by jesus himself. and so it's something bigger. again, it's thinking about the bigger picture. and i think it might be a reminder. we can't say for sure whether or not it will set a precedent, but i think that concept that the papacy is something of a bigger story. it's not just an election for political office. no, it's part of something much bigger than that. >> and feel free to disagree with me. we have disagreed in the past, but i don't think anyone, one person can do all the jobs that really we think of as a pope needing to do. so they have to prioritize, and will they prioritize somebody who does have great linguistic skills and personal skills, who can go out and spread the gospel. somebody who has sort of the mind of an mba, who can fix

what's wrong in the vatican bureaucracy. what do you think looking at? >> i keep getting this idea that the more we try to create a casting call for the pope, that we want tall short or some kind of ethnicity, the more we're going to create a box for the next pope that's impossible to fulfill. i keep think what we're going to be looking for is first and foremost, a man that comes out of that conclave with all of the cardinals standing behind him. that's what i want to see. i want to see him come out of that balcony and see the cardinals standing, smiling because they trust him. because once they trust him, it will be a whole lot easier for the rest of us to small in line. >> we expect to see the first puffs of smoke later today. thank you. they'll be with us as well throughout the process. that's going to do it for jansi"jansing and co." thomas roberts is up next. >> great hour from rome. we'll be talking to you shortly. we pick up exactly where chris left off. as the world watches, the conclave beginning its secret ritual of declaring a new pope.

the elector cardinals declaring their oath of secrecy hours the from now. so why are insiders saying an american cardinal has the best shot ever at being the new pope? back here at home, the budget backlash. congressman paul ryan unveiling his republican-backed budget that focuses on repealing obama care and expanding oil drilling in this country. why critics are saying it not serious and make believe. and the rnc is about to release its autopsy on the election loss of 2012. rnc communications director sean spicer joins me to talk about the new approach for the gop. mer my friend alex? yeah. the one that had the work done... [ male announcer ] sometimes being too transparent can be a bad thing. this looks good! [ male announcer ] but not with the oscar mayer deli fresh clear pack. it's what you see is what you get food.

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