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make-shift smoke from the sistine chapel. the world is watching to see when the smoke will be white. even president obama is talking about the conclave, the possibility of an american pope, and the concern that if an american is chosen, he might answer to the commander in chief. >> it seems to me that an american pope would preside just as effectively as a polish pope or an italian pope or a gaut mall len pope. >> and not take orders from you? >> the bishops here in the united states don't seem to be taking orders from me. >> but the president has plenty of other things to occupy him in washington where it's senate democrat's turn to unveil a vote today. they are miles apart. paul ryan's plan, no new

revenue. senator patty murray is proposing $1 trillion in new revenue. house republicans want to reduce the deficit. gop makes huge cuts to medicare and medicaid. the democratic plan relies on $275 billion in health care savings. president obama goes back to the hill. as "the washington post" puts it, the honeymoon is over. the president's approval rating is down to the 50% mark, although he's still doubling the approval rating of house democrats. i want to bring in politico senior reporter. good morning to both of you. manny, the headline on politico is budget plans or works of fiction. which is it? >> they are vision documents. i don't think anyone expects

what both paul ryan and patty murray have proposed those proposals to become law. what it will do is create a process here in washington that may eventually lead to something down the road. whether that's a compromise or grand bargain, it's very far-fetched. both sides would have to go a lot closer to each other, something they have not been able to do. there are provisions in both plans, both the ryan plan and murray plan, that would create a fast-track process that would allow big tax and entitlement package to happen but that will obama happen, chris, if both parties agree and, of course, that has just not happened so far. >> yeah. speaking of not agreeing, let me play for you what paul ryan had to say this morning on "morning joe". >> i don't think patty's budget gives a lot of room for that common ground but i think this is where the president can get engaged, which is we can find common ground on spending cuts towards getting our debt

stabilized. >> shira, will the budget process lend itself to negotiating? >> i don't think the regular budget process lends itself on this scale. two sides are so far apart right now. that said, i'm not even sure the president is the right person to negotiate any kind of package right now. we'll see how his visit goes with house republicans today. i'd love to be a fly on that wall in that room to see how that goes. i don't know if he's in the right position to do it. i think it needs to come, if anywhere, from the senate side. they've proven themselves the most difficult body to pass it to get to the floor. i think it needs to start there, that patty murray would need to come to the center and paul ryan more to the scenter on the hous side to get anything started. >> manu, we've seen what we've

called the charm offensive. you suggested that right now he's sitting back waiting for congress to lead. could that backfire? >> it could. remember, the president took a similar approach during health care legislation during the stimulus plan. of course, both measures became law. it was -- it led to a messy process on the hill, especially on health care. the president and the white house lost control of the message, spiralled out of control while congress dithered over the proposal for months. on this particular issue i think the president senses that, you know, there's really no room for him to negotiate with john boehner or mitch mcconnell. both men said we want this to happen to the regular order. they say, okay, we're going to let this happen through the regular congressional process and the president can intervene at key times in order to try to bridge that gap. you know, we'll see what happens because if you took a heavier hand, that could also backfire, too. because a lot of republicans don't really want to work with

the president that closely. it's a difficult job managing congress, especially on an issue as tricky as this. >> well, speaking of messaging, here's what the president said when he was asked about why his budget, which is coming out two months late, won't be balanced. >> we're not going tole ba to balance the budget in ten years because if you look at what paul ryan says we have to do to balance the budget is you have to voucherize medicare, is slash deeply into programs like medicaid. my position is not to chase a budget forsake of a balance. >> is this the dance or the president's bottom line? >> i think this is the president's bottom line. if you look at patty murray's budget, her budget doesn't -- didn't balanced. paul ryan says his budget is balanced but democrats on the whole don't believe they have to balance the budget at least in

the short or mid-length term. in the short term, they don't see it as a priority. it's more important to make sure medicare and social security are solvent for the next several decades. >> i want to bring in congressman bruce daily, a democrat from iowa. it's good to see you, congressman. it's obvious you and the democrats are on a different page than paul ryan. are you willing to make some concessions in areas like medicare because republicans say, look, we moved on taxes the last time. >> well, we've talked about meaningful and effective ways to strengthen and preserve medicare as an alternative to the hypocritical and cynical budget that the republicans introduced yesterday. their budget is based on abolishing obama care, yet continuing to realize $716 billion in savings to medicare that were created by obama care. it also includes an assumption

that we're going to take these revenues from taxes on the wealthiest americans that came about as a result of the year-end deal, even though paul ryan and the republicans in the house fought against that revenue increase every step of the way, which is why the supercommittee didn't reach agreement and why we ended up with the sequestration process after one year of getting know where so when you look at their plan for fixing medicare by voucherizing it and cutting dramatically the benefits to people who rely on medicaid, it's an unworkable solution and that's why we have to talk about real, practical fixes, including focusing on run away health care spending and how we get that under control by being looking at the behavioral economics that is at the root of health care costs. >> well, let's look at the other side. we know you're running for senate to replace a retiring tom harkin. >> right.

>> do you agree with senator murray's plan? >> i think senator murray has put forth a document that uses a balanced approach which is very similar to the people who came to my deficit reduction town hall meetings and i wanted. they sat down and voted on new revenues and targeted spending cuts using the same scores that we use here in washington and every one of those four deficit town halls found trillions of dollars of deficit reduction using a balanced approach. i think senator murray is using a balanced approach and i think it's a starting point for both sides to get to a budget that we can finally pass. >> i want to switch gears and talk to you about something that we've been working on. it's military sexual assault. a top combat pilot was sentenced to a year in prison and you've introduced legislation to stop this from happening.

realistically, what chance bdoe it have? >> we had an enormous amount of support, bipartisan, house and senate. we were just at the pentagon two weeks ago getting a briefing on the incredible progress they claim to have made and trying to reduce the alarming level of sexual assault in the military. and this decision by this supervising general just turns justice on its head. when he appointed the all-male jury which convicted the lieutenant colonel of sexual assault, and punished him according to the military code of justice and then turned around and reversed that decision and basically granted him a pardon and recommended him for a promotion in a decision that is not reviewable by the secretary of defense or commander in chief, it's easy to understand why so many people are cynical about the progress made in addressing this serious

problem. >> congressman, we will follow this as it goes through the process. thanks so much for coming on the program. >> thank you, chris. >> right now, shira, the senate armed services committee is holding a meet ing on this issu. there are three women senators on that panel and it's shifted the conversation. i wonder if we'd be talking about this without the female senators, shira. >> i wonder about that, too. talk about the growing impact of women in this once stoic chamber. they are really having an impact, especially on this committee, which has traditionally been a place where a lot of men hold the gavel. they are changing the tone in the committee and they are doing it by taking a more wholistic approach to what armed services means. for example, this issue which is really important and in addition to those three women who are now on the subcommittees on the

armed services committee, you have claire mccaskill who was very outspoken this week about the incident that representative braley described. >> kristen gillibrand right now. leon panetta used this to put new rules into place and chuck hagel is looking into this case that we mentioned earlier. what do you think? does the legislation have a thought? >> i think it will be an early test for chuck hagel. this was a big issue for some of the key senators who are here, like barbara boxer, claire mccaskill, those senators really made this an issue for hagel and he said, look, i am going to make this a priority in terms of looking at whether or not the military justice system needs to be reformed. and now he's got -- now he's got a decision to make because pressure is certainly going to

build from this hearing today and legislatively the question will be whether or not hagel and others in the obama administration will put the political -- their political capital on the line to change this system when there's a the a lot of resistance to do just that. >> manu and shira, thank you for being with us. >> thanks. >> thank you. mitt romney is expected to reemerge this week with a speech speech at the cpac conference. but he is still being taunted for a comment he made. >> there are 47% of the americans who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, you name it. and so my job is not to worry about those people.

i will never convince them to take responsibility and care for their lives. >> the man who recorded that was a man who was a bartender that night. he never told the staff that the speech was off the record. the bartender felt like it was his civic duty to release the video. check ed schultz interview tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern. there will be a preview in our next hour. of course, i had no idea what it was. i felt like my feet were going to sleep. it progressed from there to burning like i was walking on hot coals to like a thousand bees that were just stinging my feet. i have a great relationship with my doctor. he found lyrica for me. [ female announcer ] it's known that diabetes damages nerves. lyrica is fda approved to treat diabetic nerve pain. lyrica is not for everyone. it may cause serious allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these,

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welcome back to "jansing & co." live from the vatican and right now is when the cardinals have a chance to talk about who should be the next pope and just maybe some were deciding to change their vote. we've had three ballots so far.

only black smoke so far from the sistine chapel. so about 45 minutes from now the 115 cardinals will go back into the next session of the conclave. what's it like behind those closed doors? i'm joined by john bartunick, elizabeth from duquesne university italian campus and greg burke. it's so great to have all of you here. thank you so much. so secret meetings, locked doors. what are they really talking about and with whom during this conclave process? >> at this point i think they are praying yesterday was a big change, a huge demarkation, a line in the sand until up until now they had the general congregations, all of the time they wanted to talk. 100 cardinals getting up and giving their speeches in front of everybody else. yesterday you had the mass in

the morning and in the afternoon for the first vote. at this point i tell people it's like a retreat. catholics make retreats, some last three, five, some go on month-long retreats. it's as if the catholic church were on retreat and especially these cardinals, shut away, praying. >> but they are talking? >> there will be talking. there's talk at lunch, talk at dinner. but obviously we can't be in there. the key is second, third vote because you see who has big chunks and whether or not they are going or stopping at 30 or 32 and at that point you see who has momentum and who doesn't. >> so that's what they are doing. we don't know. >> they will talk a little about it. >> i know a little bit about how it works. i don't know what is going on there now and i don't pretend to. somebody asked me what they were having for lunch and i told her i'm going to tweet the photo very quickly. i was joking so i'm not going to tweet that photo. no, it's clear that they obviously start talking because votes start switching.

if your candidate has three or four or five votes and isn't going up, you realize, okay, i have to find a new candidate and people will try to influence you and bring you over to them. >> i'll tell you the question that i got asked, which sounds pretty funny, if they are praying to the holy spirit and the holy spirit tells them to vote for a and you go to candidate b, did the holy spirit change his mind? >> that's a good question. one of the amazing things about catholics in spirituality is this combination. we believe in a god who is all powerful but never forces us to do anything. he respects human freedom. he wants the cardinals to do their homework, to pray, to get to know one another. there's a mysterious combination. it's not like the holy spirit will force them to use the one he wants. god leave as certain amount of freedom and when the cardinals do their homework and vote in accordance to what each one

feels in their own heart, god will work with that outcome. >> so you have a certain inside human factor and there's an outside human factor. i had to laugh, my favorite quote came from colorful language and she also said she is afraid that christoph will be voted pope and she will never see him again. how many don't want it, which is kind of counterintuitive to what we think, right? >> i think there is this campaigning notion that people think this is the cushiest job in the world. with the burden of the world on your shoulders, i have a feeling that this is anything but the cushiest job in the world. i've heard that men who were thinking about refusing, they

had to have other cardinals come in and shore them up. insofar as the outside factor is concerned, that's the reason for the sistine chapel, the closing off the outside concerns, your mother, your brother, your friends, your favorite pizza place. you leave them all behind. >> and we heard cardinal dolan going in that the food isn't that great. do you have any insight into that? >> i have had lunch, not during the conclave, obviously. it wasn't bad. it's not your fine roman restaurants that you journalists are used to. >>ers w >>e >> here's the question i get a lot. is pope benedict influencing this? is he watching or following? >> to a certain degree the pope watches the news. he's not a cable news -- he's not a zapper. he's not a cable news guy and never has been. he watches the news at night and

that's it. he may watch the opening and -- no. he is not there -- with all due respect. i'm sure we'd love it if he were watching us right now but he's not that kind of guy. >> finally, how long? >> how long? midterm. midterm. i have to stay right in the middle of things. >> in other words, father burke is not -- he thought it was going to be yesterday and i'll leave this alone. thanks to all of you. great conversation. as we watch the remarkable tradition going on behind closed doors here at the vatican, we were reminded of some of the ongoing issues that the new pope will face. the los angeles archdiocese has paid nearly $10 million to four cases alleging sex abuse. newly released files show baker confessed to robert mahony back in 1986, that he had been molesting two brothers for years.

mahony sent baker and there has been criticism that mahony is one of the cardinals. >> two experienced physicians in the e.r. used i.v. ministered formula. he called it hangover heaven treating sufferers up and down the strip. [ male announcer ] when it comes to the financial obstacles military families face, we understand. our financial advice is geared specifically

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it's just another way you'll be traveling at the speed of hertz. to politics now where florida's lieutenant governor has just resigned after a gambling scandal. it's apparently because of her ties to an internet cafe company now under investigation. she represented allied veterans of the world. in . mississippi's governor is apparently going to dub the anti-bloomberg bill. new york city mayor's michael bloomberg will appeal the judge's decision to strike down his soda ban. and it's worth pointing out that mississippi has the highest obesity rate in the country. another bush run is now official. george p. bush reported that

he's running for texas land commissioner. his dad, florida governor jeb bush, may run for president. meanwhile, santorum's son is running for president. well, sort of. he's running for class president. his slogan is, help me finish what my dad couldn't. and michelle obama is on the "vogue" cover again. and my must-read exposes the secrets of the vatican. how many exorcisms did pope john paul ii perform? it's at facebook.com/jansingco.

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or lasts longer. we asked total strangers to watch it for us. thank you so much. i appreciate it. i'll be right back. they didn't take a dime. how much in fees does your bank take to watch your money? if your bank takes more money than a stranger, you need an ally. ally bank. your money needs an ally. as lawmakers on capital hill dived into the new budget proposals, they are finaling time to wine and dine raising money for 2014. check out these numbers. today alone there are 16

fundraising breakfasts, lunches, and dinners according to the sunlight foundation. just yesterday there was a re-election breakfast for mitch mcconnell. he's about to go up for an ad buy to fend off ashley judd. lawmakers are fundraising early and often because in one analysis winning senators had to raise an average of $10.5 million and winning house members raised 1.7 million. let's bring in senator blanche lincoln and myra miller. senator, you've been through this. what goes through your mind when you see some of these fundraising numbers? >> well, it's unfortunate because it takes away, when you're raising that kind of money, from your opportunities to work in the senate and solve problems, it takes away from your opportunity to be home, visiting with constituents,

touring facilities. in arkansas, where i served the senate for two terms, those are big issues and nobody can expect or know what they are going to be up against not only from their opponent but from super pacs and different kinds of special interests. it's huge. there's something you have to prepare for but there's a lot of unknown in it. >> it seems like it's getting earlier and earlier. it's another 20 months before mitch mcconnell comes up for re-election and we know that we aren't expecting an announcement from his proponent until next summer. a lot of analysts think president obama was smart to define mitt romney early and often. is that what is going on here with mitch mcconnell and ashley judd? >> i think the ashley judd situation is a total anomaly.

and 90% was being spent on negative ads. and la meanting that you can las were expected to spend 30 hours a week dialing for dollars. and you were talking about this ilts at a minimum 30 hours. you're not being able to go through the regular order. the reason things aren't getting done on capitol hill and and members are going home, go across the country, states like arkansas, it's hard to raise

that kind of money in arkansas and smaller states. you have to travel nationally to raise those dollars. and, again, still not knowing what you can anticipate in terms of both the party moneys and the super pacs that come into your state. i had no idea i'd have that kind of money against me in 2010 coming from outside of our state. it's a tough thing. and, again, getting things done on capitol hill means members have to be focused, they have to be there. you know, they have to be in committee and talking about these things. coming to the table with their different ideas. and when you're out raising money again, as myra says, to combat negative ads, you're not able to do the job that could help you defend yourself against those negative ads. so it's a vicious cycle. >> i know, myra, you advised some of these lawmakers running for re-election and it sort of gives you a perspective on how

difficult it is if you're not independently wealthy in some cases to run for office. >> we have got to be back to focusing on outcomes and solutions that matter to people and another reason for all of these negative ads is the way that campaigns are being run in recent years. candidate ideas have become a liability rather than an asset because the focus is on defining the opponent, attacking them, and not really running on your own ideas and plans and we've got to get back to that. that's a challenge for my party as well as democrats. >> myra miller, blampl lincoln, great conversation. thanks so much. >> thank you. checking the newsfeed this morning, in just a few hours, jodi arias will be back on the stand for an 18th day of testimony. arias is accused of brutally killing her boyfriend in 2008.

prosecutors say she murdered him in a jealous rage. arias says it was in self-defense. prosecutors will ask her questions about responses to juror's questions. lawmakers will pro approval a civil union bill. the governor is he is expected to sign it. a new warning from the fda on the popular anti-buy yot particular azithromycin may cause irregular heart rhythm. one drugmaker has updated its warning label. the u.s. is stockpiling small pox vaccine in the event of a bioterror attack. the first shipment was delivered last week. critics say the government is buying too much of the drug at too high a price. history at alaska's

iditarod. at 53, he became the oldest winner ever. last year dallas was the youngest winner at 25. this is the first time mushers from the same family have won successive successive iditarods. mandy drury is here. what happened? >> a software glitch has caused more than 600,000 returns to be delayed up to six weeks. as you probably know, h & r block is the nation's largest tax preparer so they have confirmed the software did fail to fill out a mandatory field on 8863, used to claim educational credits. we don't know, however, chris, what percentage of those 600,000 phony returns came from h & r block but nonetheless for those affected, i can imagine it is quite an annoyance. >> no kidding.

and meantime, let's talk about what's being called the sugar bailout, the government might have to step in to prop up stumbling sugar prices and that could cost us more if we want our sugar fix and we all do. >> we all do. absolutely. let me give you a background here. the department of agriculture is enough for 142 billion hershey kisses. it's in the name of trying to prevent a way of default for processors who have borrowed $862 million under a government support program and now you've got u.s. sugar prices that have fallen 18% since the loans began in october. and this could leave the program with about an $80 million loss which is the biggest in 30 years and i guess what it also means as prices go up, higher prices for us to get that sugar fix, as you say. >> cnbc's mandy drury, thank

you. >> thank you. as we wait for the next round of voting here at the vatican, reporters have revealed the supposedly super secret conclave and then joseph ratzinger of germany received 84 votes and he needed 77. jorge mario bergoglio with four votes. when her sister dumped me. oh dad, you remember my friend alex? yeah. the one that had the work done... [ male announcer ] sometimes being too transparent can be a bad thing. this looks good! [ male announcer ] but not with the oscar mayer deli fresh clear pack. it's what you see is what you get food.

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obesity rates are up. researchers state that while more time may be needed to see a weight decrease, it's possible people aren't getting enough exercise to burn the calories they do consume. there is a fierce fight in detroit over a planned state takeover to help the city dig out from a staggering $14 billion budget hole. he pleaded with the state to reconsidering governor snyder's plan to appoint an emergency manager who he would essentially take over the city. >> emergency manager will not walk. we will not allow it. there will be a human chain. there will be thousands. there will be demonstration after demonstration. >> let's bring in a writer with the national memo. dave, this financial situation in detroit is obviously dire.

a detroit news analysis found half of detroit's property owners failed to and the banks were the real culprit. why do you say that? >> there is a situation called bank walkaways. a bank puts a homeowner into foreclosure, usually to collect fees, and then what happens is they don't want to complete the foreclosure because that would involve taking possession of the home and having to pay property taxes. so they walk away from the home and what happens in that case is that the property owner, who's been evicted, is still on the hook for property taxes. banks don't have to inform the municipality or the borrower who walked away and the borrower who has been picked up and 500 cases with just four zip codes in detroit. that was in 2010.

this has only gotten worse since then. >> wow. so is there anything the city can do to say go after the banks? >> well, if the city had more money, they could conduct a house to house search and find out how many vacant homes are on their roles as unpaid property taxes and they could work back and figure out what banks are responsible. detroit doesn't have any money or the ability to do that. so it's hard to really figure out what's going on here. >> yeah. i mean, and obviously detroit's problems go well beyond the housing crisis. this is a problem that's been years in the making. how did detroit get into this terrible situation? >> well, there's been a lot of flight from the urban manufacturing job and so and the

foreclosure crisis was a really big deal here and predatory lending was rampant in detroit and it really hasn't ended over the last few years. so when you hollow out the base of it property tax owners and still put the property tax owners on the hook, once they have been evicted, you have a bad situation. >> dave, thanks so much for being with us. >> thank you. today's tweet of the day comes from former labor secretary robert reich. federal budget not analogous to a family budget. in fact, when families budget we need to be last resort. ♪

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welcome back to "jansing & co." live from the vatican. the cardinals will begin their next conclave session just about ten minutes from now. excited crowds have started to gather in st. peter's square. as the world awaits the election of a next pope, we spoke to seminarians about the prospect of an american pope. could cardinal dolan be our next pope? >> could, yes. i mean, he is a cardinal who will be included. >> he's a new cardinal, which works against him. >> in the sense he obviously is a great face for the evangelism, to speak about it, whether easy elected pope or not, he's a big player in the future of this that john paul t, ii, it would

great to have a st. louis pope. >> not to mention, somebody could say, cardinal dolan, i knew him back in rome. >> he's an enormous gift to the church and to the united states. >> we'll have a lot more of that interview up on our website. i'm joined by a priest and host of a show, the catholic channel. it's great to see you. >> it's great to be here. >> obviously they are thrilled. there are church groups who happen to be here. they are excited. but for most people, the way that they are watching the conclave all around the world has changed so much, hasn't it? >> sure. sure. even 20 years ago there wouldn't have been the access inside the sistine chapel. yesterday's coverage with cameras following the cardinals in this sacred space and watching those doors close, i mean, people would have read about that a week later and this

is just instantaneous. this is wonderful. >> apparently we could learn here on msnbc, where everyone will be watching, there's a new website called pope alarm. >> sure. >> you can get a little vibration as soon as we have white smoke, which i will probably need. is it gray, dark gray -- >> it's a lot better than it was the last time. boston's cardinal o'malley is a leading candidate in the media realm. he received the largest activity and the controversial cardinal mahony from los angeles. even the papal chimney has a twitter handle. >> of course it would. why wouldn't it? @chimney? what is it? >> do you guys track your ratings day to day? are people just really tuning

in? >> and for those who are interested in getting more involved, it's kind of like adopt a cardinal? >> it's random. if you have your preferences, that's great. it gives you a cardinal to pray for and pray for just in case he becomes pope, it's pretty cool. >> they've gotten 530,000 people that have adopted a cardinal at this point. there's always an upside and downside to social media. all of the crazy stuff gets out there and there are haters out there, frankly. do you think it's been good or bad or indifferent or we don't know yet? >> absolutely for me it's a good. because these last two popes, pope john paul ii and benedict xvi have talked about a new e n

evangelism. we need to rekindle that fire. we do that today primarily through getting to people when they are not in church. how do we do that? internet, twitter. >> radio. >> i'm surprised you're here because you're like on ten hours a day. >> in a couple minutes, yep. >> what do you think is the biggest misperception out there about the conclave? >> i would say the word secrecy gets a really bad rap in today's society. we prefer nontrarnsparency. and so do i. people of other faiths who have ever gone on a retreat, when you put your phone away and calendar in your luggage for two or three days, that doesn't mean that you don't love your family or care

about what is going on in the world. >> doesn't necessarily mean you're doing something bad. >> exactly. in order to focus on god, we want to drown the rest of it out and the cardinals are obviously not checking at the door their relationship with their constituency, the people that they serve. so that's already in them. but just to make sure that they can really listen to the holy spirit, that's why they go behind the doors. >> and judging by the book, it will come out eventually. >> that's right. >> father, thank you for coming over. have a great show. we appreciate it. >> sure. >> if you want to watch more of the interview, logon at jansing.msnbc.com. thomas roberts is up next after the break. lily...she pretty much lives in her favorite princess dress.

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