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hi, everybody, i'm tamron hall. at any minute we could see the results from another round of voting. we are waiting for smoke to billow from the roof of the sistine chapel on the conclave's second day. early this morning black smoke poured from the chimney indicating today's first rounds of voting were inconclusive. meanwhile talks are increasing for a possible american pope. there's never been an american in charge of the church. top contenders include new york's dolan and boston's o'malley. the president weighed in on the possibility of an american leading the vatican. >> it seems to me that an american pope would preside just as effectively as a polish pope or italian pope or a guatemalan pope. >> and not take orders from you. >> i don't know if you checked

lately, but the bishops lately don't seem to take orders from me. >> it is interesting, chris, the president's ending remarks about the leadership of the church taking any advice from him. we know that his relationship with cardinal dolan has been interesting in that dolan was the individual who led the battle against the obama administration's mandate that employers provide insurance coverage to all employees. the health coverage, contraception coverage, i should say. >> it remind me of way back in the '60s when it looks like john f. kennedy might be the new president and there were questions if he would be elected to pope because john f. kennedy was a catholic. so would the pope be running the united states. but as you pointed out, tamron, the president made it clear that he has at sometimes gone head to head with some of the bishops and cardinals in the american catholic church. they have not always seen eye to

eye. i think he add good laugh about that one, tamron. >> tell me about the mood. we know around this time yesterday we saw first black smoke as expected with the first round of voting. at this point, who can predict so clearly what we will see and in maybe about 15 minute from now, chris. >> we don't know but it would seem based on the timing so far that they are in their fifth ballot. ed with one yesterday, two th thissithis morning. it is an inconclusive ballot. so timing would tell us they are on the fifth ballot now. it is a little after 7:00 at night here. and look at the picture of the crowd. i mean, if we can go away from the smoke cam for just a second. it's been growing steadily throughout the afternoon and rain has been getting harder tp is is absolutely astonishing to

me how people have stayed there hour after hour after hour. even more than that we have been seeing a lot of loyalty to certain countries. you don't see it here because it's is a sea of umbrellas but people waving their flags. even flags for countries that don't have a cardinal, so they are definitely not going to be elected pope. but we are within the window here. we should see smoke soon, tamron. >> thank you, chris. joining me, claudia and james salt director 6 catholics united. claudia, let me start off with you. want to read a little bit from boston globe or ap article, i should say, on o'malley. it says in part 68-year-old o'malley spent his career as a bishop cleaning up from sex abuse. one story seems to have captured the most attention. after he arrived in boston in 2003 the epicenter of the church scandal o'malley decided to sell the italian renaissance mansion

that had been home to four previous arch bishops. millions of dollars from the sale would help pay settlements to victims. there is an excitement around this cardinal o'malley because of the work he's done helping victims who've been sexually abused in scandal. what is the atmosphere? what are you hearing about him there? >> shawn o'malley has become one of the surprise front-runner in the last few days. if you asked me a few weeks ago if he was a contender, no one would have given him a chance. but he is one of the assuring cardinals in there. bringing a breath of fresh air to the catholic church. one of the issues, that's the next pope will have to address, of course sexual abuse. sexual abuses around the world have rocked the catholic church along with other scandals, including the vatican.

but sexual abuse is what is on the mind of everybody and certainly shawn o'malley is one of those who can really come here with a reputation of somebody who's really done something about it. he has of course tackled sex abuse in case, not only with boston of course. is that enough for shawn o'malley to become pope? some say that he's quiet personality. his reassurance will work against him because of course that means someone with a strong hand to be both holy father but also a businessman who can take the reins of the catholic church and vatican and bring it forward. >> just to remind people of cardinals voting were 60 representing europe, latin-america 19. north america, 14. africa, 11. asia, 10. australia, one cardinal there. chris talked about literally the open lobbying, if you will, from

the people and even in some parts from cardinals themselves. this is really political and for people who believe it is all about religion, they would be mistaken here. >> indeed sometimes of course the conclave is compared to a political election. the big difference is here is that officially of can course, i can see smoke -- tamron i hear -- >> we see smoke. we hear cheers. it looks white. >> it is a huge cheer here. a roar of enthusiasm. white smoke. >> let's listen in, listen to the crowd. >> it is indeed white smoke. >> this is historic of course. >> historic, absolutely. go ahead.

>> tamron, huge roar of enthusiasm. i'm sure you can hear that while houses of people here in st. peter's square, with umbrellas, this is what they are waiting for. white smoke. we have a pope. 45 minutes from now we expect the deacon of the cardinals to appear on that balcony to finally announce the name of the pope following the words urbi et, obbi, we have a pope. >> i believe we have chris jansing. it is so interesting. i have read analysis worried that if this had gone on too long, given reports of factions within the church, lobbying and can concerns that the church needed to show a united front, that we would not see a day's

long, week's long wait to see the next pope, chris? >> i think we lost chris jansing here. let me bring in jay standing by. is he with be with you guys. >> tamron, can you hear me? >> i'm not able -- yeah, we can hear you now, chris. go ahead. >> i think this is absolutely a stunning conclusion to what many people thought would be a long conclave. there was so much talk going into it. that it could take a while. a lot of cardinals didn't know each other. but on the fifth ballot, on the second day, we have a new pope. pope emer tis benedict has been watching people in the square. there was such a cheer put up that i could hardly hear you. people will stream in all across rome. they'll stream in all across the region. folks out there under the umbrellas in the cold rain have

been rewarded. because about 45 minutes from now, we will get the announcement in latin that there is a new pope. >> let me bring in james -- executive can i executive director of catholics united. james, you heard some people say they thought it would go on. but with the reports coming out of italy with factions within the church. we are talking about 115 people with 77 of them needed to agree. if it had taken a week, maybe two, would that have sent an unsettling message it a church already unsettled? >> certainly the catholic bishops like stability more than anything. i think delivering a quick conclusion on the papal conclave is part of that strategy. you know, the church has been rocked by scandal. the sex abuse scandal and the overprioritization, and

contraception and guy marriage, and the ---it is very interesting in coming out with a definitive statement. >> james, we know you were behind a statement to keep cardinal mahony out of los angeles from participating. he is there with the cardinals. he voted. just on monday, the los angeles archdiocese agreed it pay nearly $10 million to settle four cases alleging sex abuse by former priest michael baker. cardinal mahony sent baker to a psychological treatment but allowed him to return. there are great expectations from the next pope, whoever this man is, whatever country he is from, to put on a better face for this church in that it is about the people and not about the individual who is leading the church, james.

>> catholics like myself love the church. but when speaking prophetically on issues of the day, hopefully whoever is announced in the next 45 minutes, is someone who can unite catholics around the truly repressing challenges of our day. the climate change that affects all of us is what we are talking about. not devices like sexuality. >> chris jansing, let me bring you back in. we hear the bells, see the thick white smoke. the first couple of seconds appeared gray. ed with been there before with uncertainty but can could not be more clear where we are here from the exports you have spoken with, i'm seeing many priest and analysis from your show earlier today, what message does this send that five ballots, two days later, we have a new head of catholic church? >> i think a lot of people are surprised they have come together this quickly.

on the other hand, remember, they did not have a period of mourning or a funeral for a pope who had died. once they came to rome, all of these cardinals could concentrate on the subject at happened. and that was, they knew they were here to elect a new pope. and you can just imagine what it is like inside that room right now. let's just go over what has happened. they would have gone over those ballots and they are burning them. but at the same time, you have the man and we don't know who the cardinal is, who has gone into the room of tears. who has a chance to pray and reflect on the fact that he has been given this enormous responsibility to lead the world's 1.2 billion catholics and then he goes into this room where they have robes, small, medium and large and they are, even as we speak, potentially choosing which robe will fit him. getting the papal robes on to him and pretty soon what we will see out on the central balcony overlooking st. peter's square, you will have the master of

ceremonies who will can come out, the senior cardinal, deacon, announcing from the central balcony of st. peter's that the election has taken place and he will proclaim the identity of the new pope. now i can tell you from having been here, the last time, that it's not always easy to discern what that name is because they will give that name in latin. and father bartunic, you have been studying the latin names. >> yeah. trying to get the first names of all of different contenders. can you feel the energy here in rome right now. we are above the plaza. you can see the crowds really celebrating already. i want to go back to something that chris said, the pope goes back into the room of tears. the room of tears in the sistine chapel since the 16th century in electing popes.

the man seeing his name chosen and number of votes for his name. increasing little by little the last 24 hours and the emotion he must be feeling. then after he -- they put on the pope's kassic, white kassic, he will go back into the sistine chapel. they will have a reading from the first pope, the apostle jesus, read from the gospel and each of the cardinals will congratulate the new pope and pledge their fidelity to serve the church and help him in efforts it lead the church. and after that happens -- by the way, that's why this process will take about 45 minutes before we see the pope come out on the balcony. after cardinals greet him, con kohn grat late him and pledge loyalty and team work and faithfulness to him as the church, they will make their way toward the balcony of blessings

on the front of st. peter's basilica. but on his way, and this is something new, he will pause in the chapel, the chapel where the cardinals all began this process yesterday, and he will make a little visit there in the chapel. well kneel and pray in front of the blessed sacrament and he will offer -- who knows what he will say to the lord, but he will pray there and reflect and then continue his movement, motion towards the balcony where he will give a blessing to the city and world. very exciting. >> and we should say, there are two questions -- if i could just -- there are two questions he would have been asked had already. the first one is, do you accept this. and he has to accept the fact that he has been elected pope. but the second question then becomes, what name do you take. and there is so much history and so much read into the fact that he has chosen a particular name and we have seen a lot written

about the fact, do all of these 115 cardinals go in, in the back of their mind, with the idea of what name they would choose, liz. >> capital help but feel you would be caught pretty much by surprise if you didn't have some name in mind. plus i think each men have a good sense of the history 6 church, that they feel an affinity towards. or there are some cases where we might see a new name mp for example, john paul i took everyone by surprise in the 1970s. there is possibility we might see a new name this evening. >> okay, we're back in new york. i believe we have chris matthews standing by with us. chris, are you there? >> yes, i am. >> i know that two of your aunt i believe were nuns. you are a devoted catholic, watching this from the beginning. two days, five ballots later, we have a new pope, what is your reaction, chris? >> well, my bet from the

beginning, i think i tweeted on february 11th, it would be angelo and i think after having a polish and german pope the italians want it back. it'll be a conservative vote. people on the inside or insiders -- they will pick an insider. i think that's what is going to happen. i think he got a very good vote the first ballot and it became inevitable he would be the leaders. so they may as well give him two thirds. pure speculation, but i love politics as well as my religion. >> and angelo, 71 years old, reformers pick. archbishop of milan. leading italian candidate. we do not know the name of the person who emerges here. and scola, chris, and dolan and

o'malley, seen as reformers that many people believe are much-needed at this point for the church. >> yeah. i watch these things carefully as suggested, for example, when they were trying to reach a compromise with the obama administration or making available birth control to women in the workplace, from the workplace relationships. and i thought dolan was a couple of hours where he said, i like the compromise and it's a start. only later when the entire group of catholic bishops of the united states got together where there was a stronger rejection. i think he always tries to find a moderate. tim dolan of new york. cardinal dolan. i think if you are a monitor or progressive that there will be changes. there has to be a clean-up of the scandal. i think there has to be some modification in terms of the position on birth control so they can regain, as we say in politics, traction. where people begin to listen again on these matters of sexual

conduct. i think it is important they do both these things. clean up the mess with regard to exploitation of altar boys, let's be honest. and come back it marriage and what marriage is really about. marriage is not just about having children. it is about a loving relationship, hopefully for life, and understanding the role that birth controls plays in that is important. >> i saw your show yesterday with great analysis and with whether or not priests should be allowed to marry. as part of the conversation. >> use the right word, you used the right word, again. >> yes, again. many people don't realize that this is a new phenomenon of priests not mare rig. but the archdiocese agreed it pay $10 million of four cases of alleged sex abuse. the new pope, mahoney wab part of that scandal, so you

understand people having skepticism when you talk about the necessary things that need to take place. but when this cardinal participated, despite heavy objections, from those within the church. >> faith, hope and charity. you can't forget hope. and tamron, you are very careful as a journalist to use the term alleged. if they paid $10 million, it is more than alleged. >> it is still allegations in the legal system. >> i know. >> but there are prove yep cover-ups. for example in california, a priest was allowed it escape to mexico after 36 young men say he abused them. there's enough to be proven here. i want to uk to you about the americans, since we do not know the new pope, owe nalo'malley c out as a favorite in 2003 because of the way he handled it

and corrections can can be made and it is more about talk. it is about action. >> i think a lot of it was not just that he was so much bet are than cardinal law who remains over there in the vatican, from boston, involved in all that cover-up. but he is a humble man who doesn't go for the trappings of power. the habit he pears. and he is kind of a franciscan kind of guy. and he is one as well. he didn't go for the big mansion. he got rid of that. and giving way some of the perks of office was a very important statement. humility is important. he is an honor priest and -- i have to say, we are watching something that is a real phenomena. for showbiz, there is nothing like the smoke. none of the pr guys in new york have come up with anything like this. never thought of anything this clever. have smoke come up, white if it

is good, black if it's nothing app and at night, it's thrilling. look at faces of these people. they are so excited to be there. i wish i was there. >> let's go back to claudio. talk to chris's point about the feeling in the air. the rain but still the drama as even for the most cynical of people, it is infectious to see the reactions. this woman's face right now smiling with a flag. and we do not know who the next pope is. >> there is such a sense of build-up around me. tens and thousands more, running across -- you you capital see is it, but behind the camera, it is a very long road that leads from rome to st. peter square.

and i can see people still running, trying to be here for the historic moment, as you said, where they will appear on the balcony to announce the name of the next pope. next leader of the 1.2 billion catholics around the world. i can see a lot of flags, a lot of people, singing and shouting, the mantra going on since pope benedict xvi announced his resignation. buildup of excitement around here. we will try to get the camera going in the middle of the crowd. hopefully i will see you from there next. >> absolutely. also, do we still have father, are you still with us? >> yes, i am. >> to chris matthews point and the point made bit entire panel, this excitement here yet we hear report that young are not as faithful as older members of the

church or more skeptical. does this image that we see fight those story lines? is there proof there's hope for young people to be more involved in the church? >> oh, more than hope. it is actually happening. and it's been happening. remember the world youth days? who else brings together millions of young people from all over the world, trafeling thousands of miles, to be with the pope, an old man, to pray with him, worship with him. the youth of the church, seminaries are filling up more. we didn't have as many vocations for the priesthood and now seminary in boston is filling up. they are actually looking for more space. young people of the church are rediscovering a dynamic orthodoxy. rediscovering the love of jesus christ and beauty of the tradition of the church. and let's be honest, no matter who the next pope is, there are

certain things he's not going to be able to change. not going to be able to change the bible or change the moral law. we have to have realistic expectations. we see this vitality to address challenges and difficulties. there always are challenges and difficulties. but what we are seeing here, vitality, vigor, excitement about the faith, this is the real church. this is the living church. and i would like more from you regarding the fact this is the first papal resignation in 600 years. and smooth transition, chris jansing pointing out, there is not a period of mourning so cardinals were able to focus, if you will, on the next selection and moving forward. but this hasn't happened in 600 years that we have seen the transition in this way. >> you're right. 600 years is a long time to go

without a pope stepping down. the interesting thing, we didn't have a period of mourning for a pope who had passed away. but i believe there was definitely a period of shock. precisely because it's been so long since something like this happened and people were really convinced that pope benedict was doing a good job in many ways. and there was a shock and i believe the cardinal shared that shock. there was a week or ten days when you were digesting that and reasons he might have had for stepping down. he said he felt like he no long every had the spiritual or physical strength to respond to the demand of the papacy in the modern world. i'm sure that phrase, that reason, something that cardinals began to think about from the day they heard the news. that might have helped this whole process of them thinking and discerning really who they believe would be a good person to lead the church for the next decade or decades. when they actually came to rome,

they had general congregations where they had the chance to exchange their opinions and talk about different candidates as well. >> let me go back to claudio. i understand he has a few americans from chicago. claudio? >> yes, tamron, of course, there are a lot of americans around here. tens of thousands of people in the square with american flags. we picked a few from the crowd and these are tourists from chicago, just happen to be here for this historic moment. how do you feel? >> overwhelmed. it is amazing. >> unbelievable. >> great energy. >> what the chance of an american pope? are you hoping for one. >> hoping for one. >> probably not happening. >> always have hope. >> you never know. >> any favorites? dolan, o'malley, any favorite among them? >> no. >> i don't know. i'm not catholic. >> american or it doesn't

matter. >> i heard the one from boston was a front-runner for america. >> thank you. >> any preference? >> no, i'm not catholic either. >> i guess you will stick around because in 20 minutes we will know who the pope will be. tamron, of course, we will be standing by and try to speak to more people for you. tamron? >> thank you. again, we are clearly at the half hour mark and it was at 2:06 eastern time that our eyes went to the chimney on the roof of sistine chapel and that white smoke started to billow from there. this is the scene as the 1.2 billion catholics in the world have a new pope overcoming deep divisions reported widely to select the 266th pope. it's ban remarkable few minutes here to watch this play out after five ballots and n two days. and much anticipation after the first papal resignation in 600 years.

the world will soon know the name of the new pope. and chris matthews is also part of the coverage here. we have a number of people stationed of course there at the vatican. chris, let me bring you back in. again you heard the americans there. like any other country, they like to see the cardinal from their home selected. there's been a lot of talk about representation from latin-america. even africa, as the church expands. and it needs the expansion to grow, chris. >> that's all true. but so many italian cardinals and so many european cardinals that the deck, if not stacked, is heavily favoring european. i think i will go back to the fact that having two popes in a row from other countries in europe, germany and before that, poland, is probably the italians will grab it back. my guess is they will. but you're right, there is an enormous growth in the church, even with the evangelical challenge down there and around the world. we have a very good -- we have

great candidate for the pope and africa as well. i think it's going to be an italian. i think we will see that soon. i think it will be scola. >> we heard from the president this morning. he was asked about a possible american pope. he went on to say that the pope doesn't listen or the catholic leadership does not listen to him. we know the back and forth that existed with cardinal dolan, one of the names that is heavily talked about, chris, after he led the fight against the president's mandate that employers can cover contraception and sterilelization as well as other drugs that the church finds morally objectionable. we note politics of all of this as well. >> i think that there is room for reform. and i think that you know, the church makes decisions in every century. certainly infallibility as a doctrine is no older than the 19th century and the doctrine and assumption of the virgin mary and things like that get

developed over time. and i think we will see what is called morality. i think it has to be done fairly soon or the church is going to lose its voice with people. they're not going to hear them. if you go to a catholic church in america and look at the pews and see young families, they have about three kids. back when my wife and i were kid, there were about five kids. birth control is a norm. nobody considers it immoral. no one does in the catholic church. they never bring it up in service, for example. you will never hear a priest bring up birth control, but it is in the books. in terms of morality and what good people do and good people for paying attention to how many children they have. i think another oand another jo.

this is just disciplinary. a tricky one is women as priests because there is a definition thing. the old crowd would say, a priest is a male. that the definition of the old days. in the old days you could separate men from women. catholics wouldn't stand for that today. these disciplinary things would change. if you can't have any priest, would you like to have a woman priest? with only men giving up sex and intimacy for life, you are going into a pretty narrow pool of people. and you won't get your best people that way, not necessarily. >> i want to bring back further burtunic to explain what we are seeing here. father, are you there?

>> yes. i think we are seeing now from in the band which is associated with the i think the papal guard. vatican band. i guess they will get set up to play the papal anthem when the new pope comes out. you see this happen when the pope gives his famous urbi blessings, which means a blessing to the city and world. that is the first thing the pope does when he makes his announcement on the balcony. i think it is christmas and easter. maybe new year's also? i'm not sure. no, not new year's. this is a way to mark the pageantry and celebration that we have a new pope. >> chris, let me bring you back in. timing with holy week as well makes this all exceptional and all the more important and impactful on the minds and lives quite honestly of catholics, of

the faithful. >> that's right. a lot of people think about the christian church and christmas. but in the catholic church there is no greater feast day than easter which celebrate the resurrection of christ. there is a lot of talk about, first of all, frankly, a practical matter that these cardinals wanted to get into the conclave, wanted a new pope and wanted to give back to their countries, to their diocese, to have holy week, which is the most important week of the year for them. in addition 20 that, it is just hard to imagine an easter season without the pope. and there was a lot of speculation. we have never heard this confirmed but a lot of talk about one of the cities that perhaps pope benedict decided to step down when he did is because of the gruelling schedule a pope faces during holy week. he talked about he didn't have the energy to do it. so timing couldn't be more

perfect. now the question really only is, first of all, how many minutes do we have to wait to find out who he is, then when will the installation mass be? there was a lot of talk, tamron, that they wouldn't want to do it on sunday. traditional sunday because a lint in sunday is soberness, so you don't want a celebration. the feast of joseph is a huge feast day here. hard to believe they would wait a week for installation mass, but maybe. we will see who the new pope is. >> liz is still standing by with us. liz, one. things that's been pointed out that has not happened 0r did not happen in 2005 is the pope will stop for a moment of silence and solitary prayer. this is significant when you think about times and responsibility and pope benedict

xvi expressed exhaustion, emotional toll taking on as leader of the church. >> i think liz lost you. >> i was going to say, the cardinals is unparallel, this goes back thousands of years. what you are looking at is a ceremony that this is the longest standing election in mankind. the turning over of power and what we see in the catholic church. and liz, since they can't hear you, this is extraordinary in terms of the history, liz. >> there is so much past and present in the same place.

all these young faces. all the flags who countries who didn't exist with the papacy first started. everybody is brought together. we see the 500-year-old church and the man taking place of the first bishop of rome who died in this spot almost 2,000 years ago. >> with us also is james. james, let me bring you in. to chris's point there is nothing like this in the world. we saw people talking with claudio. one individual saying he is not even catholic but to be at this moment at this time, when the smoke emerged to the pageantry we watched play out right now. but this is of great importance. what comes from this church is how people live their lives. and chris matthews spoke about the issue of contraception. the modern life we live with what see as the antiquated way of the church. james? >> yeah. certainly the pomp and circumstance is awe inspiring.

but frankly, we have to be clear that this isn't about celebrating the church institution. this should be about celebrating god. god is about love and inclusion. that what we hope the new pontiff brings in with the spirit of the church. with guy folks and women's right to contraception, let's talk about what really matters to lay folks and that's bread and butter issues and family concerns. not whether or not your neighbor can get married to the person they love. >> chris matthews, let me bring you back in to talk about that point. we can discuss the things that some within the church would like to see but we are talking about what is realistic. whether it be priests married, being able to marry again or to your point about women being deacons in the church. there is one thing to articulate the desire to see things things and another to change the

church, which some see as a daunting if not impossible task. >> i think there are great possibilities. i think raising women up to a very much stronger more prolific role in the church. i know we have these debate in the country. there is an archbishop in virginia or bishop who say no girl altarer is servers. well, that's out of date. we should have morality are a girls. and more deacons as women. this gives equal equality of appearance within the churches liner ji. put them up front. let them deliver some of the sermons. these are easily done, if you want to do it. respect for women. mary is the great role model for people in the church. john xxiii were able to make

great changes in the church. switch from latin to english, wasn't a big deal. maybe a little bit of old time religion is a good thing. maybe latin is wondrous. sometimes you need it in religion to bring nut right mood. to think about the spiritual. so helpful to human beings. i think there is a tremendous opportunity to do the right thing. there are issues, like abortion, that won't change. because it is from when life begins. it is a crucial part of our faith to respect life. not what the law says in your country but what you should do personally i think will always be a big part of religion. but i do think carrying for the poor. my aunts have spent their lives teaching kids. and work of the catholic charity around the world is fantastic. we have been involved a bit with that, my wife and i, kathy and

i. looking out for poor people, looking out for immigrant were for drunks, people with real addiction problems. the church is really good at that. every time we have a political discussion, it is about abortion rights and we ignore the fact that bob casey of pennsylvania, the whole governor who passed away, was fantastic. the liberal looking out for people with problems. and i think that's a big thing -- a pope can lean on that. be like jesus. have friends like mary magdelin. it is not about hanging out with the powerful. not even like this. that is not what jesus about. whenever you clean up the truth, martin luther over the years, it

goes back it jesus. that's what the best of the reforms have done. >> to your point, especially in the united states, we once see catholic schools. i, myself, went to catholic school. you see them shutener cases of lawsuit and declining lawsuits. but the messages you talked about helping and extending a hand were taught in schools that now no longer exist as they did in the '70 for example. >> when there is success coming my way, spiritually or materially, there is a nun somewhere saying, you can make it. this is what you have to to make it. the sense of individual respect is something they are good at. and they can be brutal also.

i had that experience as a kid. they may take the slowest kid in the class and work on that kid until they got them. they don't treat kids as no numbers. i'm not saying the public school does. but the catholic schools don't. they treat them as souls, individual important people. tough situations in homes where they have the advantage of catholic school and they do bloom as people. >> let me bring back father bartunic. as you you gave us the rundown. the pope goes to the room of tears. small room off the sistine chapel. there is a following of a reading from the gospel. so much is happening behind the scenes. we have passed the 30-minute park and perhaps in the next five minutes or so we will hear

from the name and the new pope will arrive behind the scarlett curtain. >> the new pope was announced about 45 minutes an then he came out on the balcony. the band from the vatican and the band from the city of rome representing civic authorities. with the red capes and feathered hats. saluting each other. greeting each other. that is part of the tradition when the pope gives his blessing to the city and borld. i want to go back to earlier comments. the reason the church has such clear teachings own morals and human sexuality, that flowes from the belief in jesus christ and fidelity to his teachings. i think we need to be careful about picking and choosing which current issues we think the next pope might change.

there is a beautiful unity. so many, even catholics, don't understand the true beauty of these teachings. we definitely need to do a better job of communicating those things. >> how do you believe the proper way is to move forward? there is a thirst, as chris talked about, james salt, and you know better than any of us, seeing a modern message from the church and addressing of modern issues, whether they are a message of inclusion or to chris's point, basic message of helping your brother and sift and sister. and not rejecting the poor or person whose hand is out to you. >> going back to the gospel, jesus included everyone, including sinners. he never told sinners they didn't have to change. so it is hard message.

we all need to convert. we need to love our neighbors. that all goes together. the modernization of the church is about changing fundamental changes and coming up with creative ways to communicate that message. in parts of the world, especially western worlt, the united states and europe, the message has lost some of its flair. i think that's because of the way it's been communicated. in the 207b8g century, count in africa more than 7,000%. in asia the church is growing. the church is tight al but in a global world, finding new ways to to communicate the beauty of our faith and what things we can

change and what things we can't, that part of the job of our new pope. >> president obama was notified at the white house that the vatican, the white smoke, during his house gop meeting. and he relayed the information to the house republicans. so there you have the president there with house republicans in this country and a budget for example that we've been discussing that some view, i don't want to drag politics too much in this, but we do know it does throw into our problems and what we decide is a priority. >> and just to get into the usual things that you and i talk about, it is 50/50 between the two parties. catholic democrats catholic republicans, equally representing reality. they don't take side, catholics.

it is an interesting block. they don't have like a preferred default party. they were reagan, for eisenhower, for republicans, for bill clinton. somewhat split on obama. i would like to see the president do something dramatically in terms of the new elevation, coronation. i would like to see him go over for it, but i don't know that he will. i think secretary of state will come, joj john kerry, he's roman catholic. i think it would be wonderful if the president went, but i don't think he is. i think he has a sense of distance from the catholic church. they don't gel, i would say, those two point of view. but i would like him to go. i think it would be great if he went. there's a statement of crossing the aisle, if you will. of let's get together.

>> let me get back to claudio. he is there for the history unfolding. claudio? >> tamron, hi. i told you earlier on that thousands of people, as soon as they heard the news, they would stream down. ran down here to st. peter's square. not to miss the historic oi occasion. four girls from buffalo, new york, where were you girls when you heard the news? oz money t >> on the bus coming back from pompeii. >> we made them stop the bus and we sprinted. >> you have about 20 minute before you see who the next pope will be. any preference? >> no. we're just excited to be here. >> american would be nice. >> well timed. >> as you can see, americans, people from all over the world, all looking up at the balcony waiting for the next pope to

appear. tamron? >> let's listen in to a little bit of the ambiance so you truly can soak in what we are experiencing. we could be minutes away from learning the name of the new pope. let's listen in. faerm father, let me bring you in on this. nothing beats the smoke the world was waiting to see but we can also incorporate modern technology. the papal twitter account has turned to pontiff. so you have the modern world of twitter with, i got a thumb's up on my pronunciation, father. modern world of twitter with the tradition of this age old church.

>> yes, it is a bridge-builder. pontiffex means one who builds a priest. the head of the catholic church has a main job of building bridges. between god and families. different parts of the human family. those between who are i'llated from god and one another. so i think and just one of the things, tamron, about the sear moany and beauty and pageantry, it isn't just an empty show. we believe as christians that god redeemed the world. so these things matter and all those people you see in st. peter's square they feel so included in this precisely because the ritual and beauty of

the place and ceremony. so this does matter. and bringing us together. all of that is expressed by the beautiful ceremonies and beautiful places. >> i was going to say, the pope's twitter account is enacted and there have been no leaks. no one knows who the new pope is. you have this incredible tradition and nobody knows what will happen next. i can remember from eight years ago so we want to watch from this, tamron, we saw a little movement in the curtains. >> yes. >> then you couldn't hear anything because the crowd went absolutely crazy. so we are awaiting this announcement, tamron. >> absolutely. 1.2 billion catholics but we know many more chris matthews around the world, watching. because they do recognize the importance of church chris,

let's talk about the church and expansion. we heard the father talk about asia, africa and south america. but we know that a lot of the money comes from the u.s. and so many people have pulled back, if you will, from the church. whether they give donations or their hearts. so for the americans watching, whatever name is announced here shortly. >> it is all true, all different perspectives. i wouldn't get into an argument with anyone about theology or doctrine values because they are all valid.

i think the personality of the next pope will be really important. if it's scola, he can speak english. that's very important to us. we like to hear it in our language. he can communicate if they have a language ability. if they can speak to us in our language, it is very powerful for us. we do want a connection. one of the interesting things about scola is he went to catholic u in town here. he's been a resident of washington here, so that's another connection we like to get. we are all nationalists. i want an american pope too. but i don't think it'll happen because the cold war still has the power in the world. cold war said you can't choose between east and west. you had to come down somewhere in the middle. you couldn't pick an american, that's just too much lopsided politics. it is tough to get people to vote from other countries for the super power candidates.

but anything is possible. i still think it is scola. but the magic, for the first time in my lifetime, we have candidates in the field. just like the first african-american president, first woman president, first step is getting candidates in the field. based on all the buzz that o'malley and certainly tim dolan of new york were taken seriously by the world press on this thing. >> certainly sound that way. liz, let me bring you into chris's point. he said all along he believes it is scola, archbishop of milan. but this is the first time we hea heard, this is the first dialogue of an american perhaps being the new pope. >> a really thrilling idea that all of a sudden the doors open and we have been looking everywhere from the philippines to the united states to canada.

just this inedible vast sense of universal which is what the church is supposed to be. i look at the crowd and flags from all over the world and colors are different. there is one thing in common. every one of those faces, praying, intent, smiling, joyful, they are willing to give whoever can comes to that balcony, they are willing to give them a chance. the question is, who is it going to be and how are they picking up this opportunity. >> james, i want you in the conversation as well. we cannot ignore scandals that still exist and will exist after the name of the next pope is announced here perhaps in the next few minutes. you had a petition where thousands signed wanting certain cardinals not to participate for concern of how they handled the church's child sex abuse scandal and ongoing issues. >> i just want to make the point that whom ever walks out on to

the balcony today, won't have the same level of deference toward authority. and i will say that, probably the first thing that new pope should do is fire robert fin. we are talking about the bishop of kansas city convicted of sex abuse after the dallas charter. is not even eligible for its own diocese and needs the reforms that i'm looking for and if scola is the -- has been elected, i think it will be very fascinating to see how they go about cleaning house in the vatican. scola is very much about the vatican democracy. not so much about changing the priorities of the church moving forward into the 21st century. very much about holding progression of this second vatican council reforms down. so these are the things i'm most re