the party line, vote with the republicans against the expansion under the affordable care act, but he's also now proposing separate legislation. he says he's now against doing it within the budget. so this is a complete and total conversion from his position in january. >> well, there's a part of it that if you track it all the way through -- through, does kind of sound like a possibly practical legislator who wants some version of the medicaid expansion. realizes that his party will absolutely prevent it. says i decided to vote with my party so that they would then continue to listen to me on this subject when i propose an alternative to it, which is kind of where he is now. but i want to get to -- just stay with his larger point. >> right. >> and leave his personal intent aside, because he's kind of hard to figure out here. but -- the larger point of it's politically expedient in south carolina, anyway, to be voting against the black guy in the white house sounds like something that actually should -- is probably true there. >> well, yes. and in fact, one of -- a democratic legislator said -- he can't criticize representative carver, because what he says is true in south carolina, it is true that republicans are going to vote against something that the democrat in the white house has proposed, particularly this democrat who happens to be, you know, the black guy in the white house. we've watched south carolina

politics up close, particularly in presidential election years during the primaries. south carolina politics can be really ugly. can be very racially tinged. and this is just in keeping with that history. >> jonathan, it sounds like he just put a very blatant label on what may really be happening out there. >> yeah. i mean, i don't think it will come as any surprise to anyone we've watched south carolina politics up close, particularly in presidential election years during the primaries. south carolina politics can be really ugly. can be very racially tinged. and this is just in keeping with that history. >> jonathan, it sounds like he just put a very blatant label on what may really be happening out there. >> yeah. i mean, i don't think it will come as any surprise to anyone watching this program, anyone who lives in south carolina, anyone who has been watching what's been happening between the president >>

gun smoke. let's play "hardball." good evening, i'm chris matthews in new york. let me start tonight with this. i am rarely startled by political opinions but the other day i heard a college student say he believes people have the right to walk into any bar, restaurant, hockey game, nfl stadium, openly carrying a firearm. they have a right to do this and he suggests duty to insist on that right. i think of the world this would create, go into a bar midnight friday, people are all over the place carrying, packing. all have loaded guns. handy for use. all can drink all they want. no one will take away their drink and certainly no one will take away their gun in their holster. how long will it take for the

combination of alcohol and attitude and the presence of bad drugs to detonate into a gunfight? how long will it take before someone had, well, five or ten drinks and getting ticked off at that guy looking at his girlfriend? that guy who staid something about his favorite sports team? that guy who he doesn't like the looks of, that guy who's shooting his mouth off? this is the concoction of my imagination only because i thing think it's what they want. second moment people want the country to come, a place where people walk in or out of banks, barbershops, churches, movie theaters armed and loaded. they want this just not as a theoretical right but their day-to-day reality. they look to a yearning to a world where most people are armed, most people have a semiautomatic available. people barge through bar doors sporting the latest scariest weapons they can get their hands on, which according to the gun people is anything they can imagine. we begin tonight with the "huffington post" sam stein and cynthia tucker of the university of georgia. today's hearing, on assault weapons, an assault ban. it included a dramatic exchange which i'll never forget between

freshman tea partyer, ted cruz of texas and dianne feinstein who's a grown-up. cruz challenged feinstein on the constitution and feinstein hit hard back. let's take a look. >> the question that i would pose to the senior senator from california is would she deem it consistent with the bill of rights for congress to engage in the same endeavor that we are contemplating doing with the second amendment in the context of the first or fourth amendment? namely would she consider it constitutional for congress to specify that the first amendment shall apply only to the following books? and she'll not apply to the books that congress has deemed outside the protection of the bill of rights. >> i'm not a sixth grader. senator, i've been on this committee for 20 years. i was a mayor for nine years. i walked in. i saw people shot. i've looked at bodies that have been shot with these weapons.

i've seen the bullets that implode. in sandy hook, youngsters were dismembered. it's fine you want to lecture me on the constitution. i appreciate it. just know i've been here for a long time. i've passed on a number of bills. i studied the constitution, myself. i am reasonably well educated. and i thank you for the lecture. >> there, again, cynthia tucker, i really want your thoughts and feelings on this. i don't understand how people can elect somebody like ted cruz. here's a guy so far right, so unlimited in this notion of the second amendment, that anyone should be able to have any kind of gun. anybody who says you can't have any kind of gun is somehow limiting their rights under his view of the constitution. in other words, matt dylan, wyatt earp, anybody who ever said leave your gun out of town on the way into town had to be stopped in their tracks because his view of the constitution is the bad guys. guys in the gangs. they had a right to carry guns anywhere they wanted and any kind of gun they could get their hands on. then he challenges a grown-up,

again, dianne feinstein who i have enormous respect for, who watched her mayor die right in front of her, who's dealt with criminal matters her whole career. she's an expert on criminality. and have her lectured to by this far-out character. your view on what this has come to, this gun discussion. i think it's so polarized between the middle, reasonable middle, and the far right. it's hopeless. >> well, chris, not only is ted cruz an extremist, he's also overbearing, arrogant, and condescending. >> thank you. >> and i can only imagine how dianne feinstein felt. how dare he? he just got there. how dare he show up and commence to lecture her on the constitution? she wasn't having it. so she just ground him back into his place with the heel of her high heeled pump. good for her. >> let me go to sam on this. sam, maybe you'll have different metaphors to use.

hopefully you'll have the same view. i'm tell you, this guy is -- i hate to use words like crazy -- but his notion of how america should be, where everybody carrying a gun of any kind they want, anywhere i want. this is being taught to kids now in their late teens. you should have a gun, you should insist on your rights, you should walk around with one everywhere you go and anybody stops you from having a gun at any time, any kind of gun, is bad. that's what they're being taught. these kids. >> i like the metaphors, but i do think that ted cruz is way out of the mainstream even within his own party. a ruling said you can't restrict handgun access but can put limitations on guns. >> have you been following the post this week? every single republican on the committee voted against, even background checks, voted now against assault weapons. they're not really doing anything. >> there are complexities with the background checks bill. there are expectations in democratic leadership that when

they adjust the bill there will be republican support. they had to go with the schumer bill because tom coburn pulled out at the last minute. yes, there's no republican support for an assault weapons ban though i think it's fair to say an assault weapons ban would be constitutional or would be for ten years without legal challenges. i don't know where ted cruz gets the idea that the second amendment and first amendment is absolutist. you can't scream fire in a crowded theater. he has this idea of the constitution he wants to impose on every one of his colleagues and does come off condescending in the process of doing so. >> cynthia, it looks to me like the gun legislation fight even despite it's only three months since the horror of new town has not moved left, if you will, toward gun safety. i'll use that term loosely. it's moved right. these people have circled the wagons like an old western and insisted most important thing in the world is to have guns. they're not afraid of a coup or military government. they're afraid of a popular government. it's that or they want to take on vigilante justice because they can't protect the government.

now they're saying any gun, any time. by the way, sam, i don't see any resistance by this guy on limited gun ownership. not any. >> i don't see any either. the logical question for ted cruz is, can you own a grenade launcher? how about a tank? where is the restriction that he'd be comfortable with? are there no restrictions? i have no idea. >> cynthia, here's senator feinstein raising the question of escalation. how far do you go? he asked him to respond to this. his interpretation of the second amendment seems to be there's no weapon the government should prohibit from owning and carrying openly. let's listen to senator feinstein on the very point sam raised. >> you use the word, prohibit. it exempts 2,271 weapons. isn't that enough for the people in the united states? do they need a bazooka? do they need other high-powered weapons that military people use to kill in close combat? i don't think so. >> cynthia, a bazooka. what is the limit for this

crowd? what you can carry? >> the gun lobby would say, yes, chris. and if sam sees that there are some republicans who are willing to sign on to reasonable gun legislation, i'm happy to hear that, because i haven't seen it. let's remember that on the judiciary committee, there were no republicans who voted for a proposal that would say, if you traffic in guns, if you're convicted for gun trafficking, you get a very long prison sentence. i believe one republican voted for that. >> it was a republican. >> grassley. one republican. so the gun lobby is so extremist, let's remember this, chris. the national rifle association thinks it's okay that if you're on the terror watch list, you can buy a gun. bloomberg calls that the terror gap.

the nra says, yes, but that's just fine. let people who are on the terror watch list buy guns. why the republican party has signed up to that kind of extremism is quite beyond me, but most republicans have. >> who's the boss here, sam? is it the nra bossing the republican party around because they deliver a lot of the votes and maybe some of the money? certainly the members? or is it the republican party simply embracing the nra because they think it's like the evangelicals or any other group or neocons can they use and exploit for electoral victory? who's winning here? who's bossing? >> i think it's a combo of both. the nra's power as been about its membership. a lot of it goes back to the lore of the '94 election when the assault weapons ban was passed. a ton of democrats who voted for that measure lost their seats. since then it's been assumed you take tough gun votes at your own political peril. at the same time, there's a new pattern that's emerged where republicans are afraid of being primaried in their own party.

why, i guess in their mind, would you allow anyone the opportunity to run against you on the issue of guns? on the issue of background checks, to clarify one thing, tom coburn was 95% saddled with chuck schumer on a bill. they're disagreeing over record-keeping aspects of it. senators like mark kirk are going to very, very, very likely be there regardless. >> how many republicans do you think will vote on the floor for any kind of background check strengthening? even that? not the 30-round limit or 10-round limit on the magazines. not the assault weapon, but just a minimal step of a background check enhancement. how many republican senators do you expect right now, sam, will vote for it? >> well, of course, it depends on how they adjust the record-keeping language. i would guess they could get

four to five, maybe a little bit more. >> of the whole senate? >> republicans in the senate. it's going to be close. >> 1-10 is a high mark. that's a good statement about the republican party. 1-10 senators might go as far as a background check. senator feinstein and other democrats pointed out in the hearing today the first amendment isn't absolute, either. it doesn't cover child pornography. cruz stayed focused on his one single point he brought in. let's watch him again. >> is it the view of the senior senator from california that congress should be in the business of specifying particular books or for that matter with respect to the fourth amendment, particular individuals who are not covered by the bill of rights? >> sir, congress is in the business of making law. the supreme court interprets the law. they strike down the law, they strike down the law. the tests in heller with respect to unusual weapons, to other things, i think do not cover --

in other words, they cover an exemption for assault weapons. >> is that true, cynthia? the supreme court ruled in favor of assault weapons ban, as pointed out a few moments ago. >> exactly. >> i guess you can have the right to carry in d.c. which i don't agree with, but you can do it. >> there are absolutely no rights in the bill of rights that are absolute, as sam said earlier, and the assault weapons ban was in effect for a decade. no one said, at least the supreme court didn't say it was unconstitutional. heller has come along since then, but heller does not say all assault weapons must be legal. it says that authorities may, in fact, pass laws restricting gun ownership. >> in fact, that bastion of liberal thinking, justice scalia said that you can't have regulations on guns. i mean, i don't understand what the argument is about. conservative members of the court saying it's okay for regulations, what are we talking about? >> the crap will sell down there from texas. people in texas watching tonight believe you can walk into any saloon, the law branch, local pub you go to, chinese restaurant.

anybody who wants to walk in carrying, as much firepower as they want to and sit down next to you at the restaurant and drink all night with their guns there. anybody who's comfortable in a situation like that is an idiot. thank you, sam stein. thank you -- maybe there are some idiots down there, but why they voted for this guy, cruz, beyond me. he gets worth every night. coming up, cpac, conservative political action conference, rolled into washington, d.c., today. birthers like donald trump and louie gohmert will be there. so will sarah palin. not governor chris christie. he might just actually win the white house next time. can't have him at cpac. what does it say about a party that has room for the characters on the extreme right fringe, the birthers, but shuns practical conservatives like chris christie? in rome, pope francis started the first full day of his papacy by visiting a shrine to the virgin mary. devotion we know for latin-american catholics. the first hispanic pope is a testament to latinos around the world. the same group who helped put president obama into office this

past november. kept him there. there could be a historic first in new york. we're going to meet mayoral candidate, herself, christine quinn, hoping to begin something big-time. the first woman to be mayor of new york. here's another republican in need of a civics lesson. new york congressman jim bridenstine says the supreme court doesn't get to decide what's constitutional. really? his flamed, or rather flawed reasoning is in the "sideshow" today. also flamed. this is "hardball," the place for politics. once you try an oral-b deep sweep power brush, you'll never want to go back. its dynamic power bristles reach between teeth to remove up to 76% more plaque than sonic in hard to reach areas. oral-b deep sweep 5000 power brush. in hard to reach areas. to find you a great deal, even if it's not with us. [ ding ] oh, that's helpful! well, our company does that, too. actually, we invented that.

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welcome back to "hardball." the conservatives have come to town to washington. the annual cpac conference is under way just outside washington. it's making news not only for who's coming, that's mitt romney, donald trump, sarah palin, but also for who's not coming. popular gop governor, chris christie and bob mcdonnell, he's from virginia. in other words, invite the noise makers, snub the people who might actually lead the party out of the wilderness. my view, of course. al is chairman of the american conservative union, the group that puts on cpac, and former national chairman of the republican party, michael steele, an msnbc analyst. it's great to have you on. i want to ask you something very positive and nice to warm you up before we get started here. how happy are you we have a hispanic pope? >> oh, boy, i'm glad you asked.

as a practicing catholic, i got on my knees yesterday and i was so happy. i think the world will love this pope. america will love this pope. other than cardinal o'malley. i think he'll make a big difference. 500 million catholics in latin america, chris. i think he can be a great voice. >> we can agree on something. now to the issue of donald trump. boosted your ticket sales. could it be overshadowed by his birther talk? let's take a listen to trumpy. >> i would like to have him show his birth certificate, and can i be honest with you? i hope he can. because if he can't, if he can't, and if he wasn't born in this country, which is a real possibility -- i'm not saying -- i'm saying it's a real possibility. much greater than i thought two or three weeks ago. then he has pulled one of the great cons in the history of politics. >> a lot of people want to see his college transcripts. they're not looking at his marks, his grades, was he a good student?

they want to see, what does he say about place of birth? >> there's another participate of yours at the cpac convention you're hosting and inviting people to. texas congressman louie gohmert, a co-sponsor of the house birther view. here's how "the new york times" described him saying "mr. gohmert has compared homosexuality to bestiality, endorsed a column likening barack obama's presidency to adolf hitler's dictatorship. and terror babies like human time bombs will be trained abroad only to return some day to wreak ask in america." and steve king suggested the president's parents could have telegrammed in a birth announcement from kenya. let's listen to this guy. >> it would have been awfully hard to fraudulently file the birth notice of barack obama being born in hawaii and get that into our public libraries in that microfish that they keep of all the newspapers published. that doesn't mean there aren't other explanations on how they

might have announced that by telegram from kenya. the list goes on. >> these characters that are okay for your convention, al, but not an elected governor who's very popular in jersey? tell me your rules. >> well, here's what we have. we've got 30 main ballroom speakers. the folks you mentioned, frankly, most of them are part of a 200-plus-person panel program we have. 30 main ballroom speakers we've got. 40 republican senators, 30 governors, 200-plus house members. what we've got to do is select 20. what do we do? we selected three governors. rick perry because his state is the number one state in job creation, and i think it's a model for america. bobby jindal because he's a bright, intellectual young leader of the party. selected scott walker because

he's doing great things in our view in wisconsin. >> all the guys you mentioned are given less time than donald trump. you giving him 14 minutes. 13 minutes to the governor. why more time for the birther of the country? you're laughing. why does michael steele get more time as a conservative? i think he's nutty on this issue. he's a smart guy. he's nutty on the issue of birtherism. that's what he's known for now, not building buildings into the sky. >> the characterization can be put behind donald trump. >> he won't put it behind him. >> chris, he hasn't been talking about that. >> he talks about it every time he gets a chance to talk. >> wait a minute. let's make the point. let's see what the man says tomorrow, number one. let's go -- i think a couple things. one, donald trump is going to reframe the arguments -- >> how do you reframe the birther issue? >> you don't talk about it. chris, nobody's talking about it but you. you're the only person bringing it up. you did a 30-second lead-in on

it. >> people who think the president is an illegal immigrant shouldn't be talking out loud almost anywhere. they think he's an illegal immigrant, he snuck into our country, broke the laws and he's a fraud. >> all of that is behind us. see where we go from here, chris. let's move the chart a little further. number one. number two, i would disagree with my friend, al cardenas on this. i think the chris christies of the world need to be at cpac. i think they represent the power of republicanism on the east coast. to be the governor of a blue state like new jersey, you're not speaking at this gathering of young conservative activists from around the country to me is mind-boggling. so i understand the rules and you wanted three governors. he's the guy you need to have in this room. >> fair enough. i'm with you, obviously. let me ask you, al, as a home guy who decides who's invited. would you be happier if donald trump didn't talk about the president's country of birth?

>> yes. of course. but that's not why i invited him. we don't censor our speakers. we don't get involved through that issue. we never have at acu. he's a successful businessman who's not afraid as an entrepreneur to talk about america and the economy. as michael said, we'll see what he says tomorrow. i think he'll be a positive influence on the youngsters here. a lot of kids want to have their picture taken with somebody who's made $3 billion. >> i understand the mentality. >> it will be interesting to see what happens. i'll tell you what i'm mostly proud of. michael will relate because he shares that passion with me. 18 african-american speakers, hispanics, 17 women, a lot of republican leaders under 40. we want to show the new face of the party. frankly, we think we've turned a page. >> the most famous, he's going to be speaking there. he's the guy who said there are 78 to 81 communists in the democratic house of representatives. let's hear what he has to say. here he is. allen west. your guy. >> there's no shortage of people telling us what conservatism cannot accomplish. what we can't do. how we cannot connect.

how we must change our values to fit the times. well, ladies and gentlemen, i want to tell you that that truly is a bunch of malarky. i'm speaking from experience when i tell you there's nothing on this green earth that a liberal progressive fears more than a black american who wants a better life and a smaller government. >> michael, your case. is this the scariest thing on the planet? >> no. it's not. i think -- i think that there's a lot of truth to that. i mean, as a former black candidate as a republican for office, i know exactly -- i've seen exactly what the congressman was talking about there. so he makes a very legitimate point. that, you know, when you've got a party like the democrats who have a lock hold on a particular voting bloc, to see any pieces of that to begin to shrink or break away is not something they want to do. so they play the card of fear. they play the card of race from time to time. i've been a victim of it. allen west has been a victim of it.

i thought it was a fair point to make. >> but african-americans allowed to vote for anybody they want to, right? >> we. >> they choose to vote for obama and the democrats. that's fair, isn't it? >> that goes to the broader point that i think the chairman there was making about how the party now in a forum like this has an opportunity to broaden its message to reconnect with these voters who are sitting on the periphery looking at us and wondering what is our next act going to be? >> in the spirit of commonality, i have to say michael and agree on one thing. i voted for him for the senate for a lot of good reasons. one of them, i like him personally. i think diversity in the united states senate is way overdue. your last thought, allen. by the way, we agree on the pope. your last thought tonight? >> my last thought, one of the greatest things we're doing here is an immigration panel. you'd be amazed at the great not only turnout but the great reception we've had on comprehensive reform on immigration in america. right here at cpac, the epicenter of the conservative

movement. i'm very proud of that. i'm proud to be for comprehensive immigration reform. i'm proud that my movement is embracing the concept and if there's something i can do to contribute to all of this, chris, it will be to bring peace to america on a matter that's so important to all. >> i think the best thing you can do is get your party to support it. that would be a help. thank you -- >> we are. >> anyway, al cardenas. >> trump will surprise you tomorrow, chris. >> you're a hopeful man, michael steele. he has surprised me negatively so many times. maybe he'll surprise me positively. it's something we learned in grade school, the supreme court has the power to decide what is constitutional. not according to one republican member of the congress. he doesn't think it's that way. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

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auto ha! >> the new segment we have for you tonight, it's called, a house budget chairman paul ryan, well said. let me repeat this. house budget chairman, paul ryan, well said.

>> this, to us, is something we're not going to give up on because we're not going to give up on destroying the health care system for the american people. back to "hardball." if you had to rattle off a quick summary of the job of the supreme court, you'd go with it determines whether laws are constitutional, right? we turn to oklahoma republican congressman, jim bridenstein. he's not convinced thanks to a certain health care rule. >> the supreme court rules on something doesn't necessarily mean that that's constitutional. what that means is that that's what they decided on that particular day given the makeup of the court on that particular day. and the left in this country has done an extraordinary job of stacking the courts in their favor. i hear this all the time from republicans. you know, they say that the court is the arbitrator, and after the arbitration is done, that's the rules that we have to

live under then we can go forth and make legislation given those rules. that's not the case. a perfect example is obama care. obama care is not constitutional. the individual mandate. >> where to begin? of course there's the obvious note that if the supreme court rules something constitutional, it is under the american system. it is constitutional. the congressman points out the democrats have stacked the courts in their favor. of the nine supreme court justices, five of the nine were appointed by republican presidents. simple math. by the way, let's go out to utah. the legislature passed, cases of domestic violence, not necessarily married or even living together. a couple state senators had bizarre -- wait until you hear this -- objections to the bill. >> you make a lot of mistakes in your first original encounter and dates with this new partner. a lot of times you roughhouse, a lot of times you're trying to determine limits on where your limit is and where her limit is and where you've gone too far. now if you feel uncomfortable about something that happens,

you go and get a court order. it's like, how did this get introduced? i did something i thought was in fun and jest and the next thing i know, i have a court order against any. >> the way i read it, it could be two girls and one thinks they're just good girl friends and one thinks it's a romantic relationship and they're dating. when the other finds out they're not dating, she thought they were girlfriends, all of a sudden one can get angry and all kinds of concerns can be generated because this is such an ill-defined dating relationship. >> what was that guy talking about? beat the crap out of your wife and didn't know that was what she liked? what is he talking about? it's beyond imagination out in utah they're talking like this. you have to ask -- i'll just say this, my advice to republicans, stop talking about this stuff. rape and all this stuff, stop talking about it.

you sound like animals. up next, pope francis and growing power of latinos around this country and around the world, of course. you're watching "hardball." the place for politics.

translator: it appears that my brothers, the cardinals, went to get it all over to the end of the world. >> welcome back to "hardball." his first words to the world pope francis made reference to the selection of a pope from latin america, joking his brothers the cardinals went to the end of the world. if you look at a map, that's where it is to find him. a "new york times" full-page headline, the significance is summed up in one line, the selection of a pope from latin america, "choice of francis shifts church center of gravity." just as latinos shape the american political election last time, helping obama by voting 71% for him, now latinos are poised to exert their influence in the church and the power of being a first of a particular group to rise to power has

enormous galvanizing influence, of course. just like president obama was the first african-american president, francis is the first pope from latin america. pride in the elevation of this guy, and i'm not latino, must be a big, big source of tremendous pride. look at the front pages of the newspapers. san antonio, "l.a. times." look at the power of this. joining us, charles senate, co-founder of "global post" which has a special series about the new pope called "a global church." raul reyes is a columnist. i want you to talk about this as a latino. >> in our community, this is huge. you know, in the united states, when we look at the religious affiliations, it's something like two-thirds of hispanics are catholic, but yesterday if you're hispanic, if you're latino, everybody was catholic.

this is something because he was the first, because it's historic, we all share in it. and there was a little gesture that our new pope, pope francis made when he was up on the balcony. he mentioned he was going to pray to the blessed virgin mother. for latinos, that carries such resonance. the virgin of guadeloupe, the virgin mother is most powerful, most venerated symbols throughout latin america. go to any latino home anywhere, there's a statue of the virgin mary. in my volunteer work, i've seen hardcore gangsters and they have the tattoo of the virgin mary. even in the culture we live in, her symbol, her power continues. so for him to make that gesture, it's not just that he's one of us, say, in terms of the heritage. that's his gesture that says he gets us. >> the way i look at it, if he just in terms of politics, might be specialty, he shows up in l.a., how many people show up there that day? >> 2 million. >> 2 million people show up. he could have that power if he comes to this country? >> yes. in new york, miami, chicago, san antonio. all over the southwest. absolutely. because also this is as we're

learning more of the details in his biography, he is the son of immigrants. at the local level, the catholic church in this country has been supportive of comprehensive reform. he has a global forum. he can bring attention to an issue that is so personal to us. this is our family, these are our relatives. >> just looking at your face now, i know what's going on now, which is pride. i do think the more latinos in this country say they belong here, they're here, they're going to make their voices heard. they're going to make their politics heard. they're going to get registered. they're going to run for office. we see it with the mayor and congressman from san antonio. what's the great word? i get thrilled thinking about this. confidence in public life. we're not the minority. we're one of the peoples of america. let me ask you, charles, about the economics. you speak up on the economics

part here. you now have a pope. i was talking about this last night. i hope i can make my point clear. most sophisticates who read "the new york times," for example, live in the suburbs. they'll always say to you, well, actually, i'm a fiscal conservative, but i'm very good on social issues. well, this pope is the flip side of that. >> that's right. >> he is conservative on social issues like abortion, things like that. he's darn good on looking out for poor people. and economic injustice that you find in capitalist countries. >> there's a reason he chose the name francis. st. francis, for the poor, as did jesus. if you look at the gospels as a historian, where do they all agree, all of the different writers of the gospels, they all agree on one thing, that jesus' message for the poor is clear.

this cardinal, now pope, has lived that message. he has been the guy who rides the bus. as it's been said. he's the guy who is with the poor. he washed the feet -- >> did he skip the popemobile today? >> yes. >> chris, he washed the feet of aids patients at a hospital in buenos aires. in the last go-around in the last papal transition in 2005, we were the runner up. >> how did we find that out in off the record voting? i want to know how we didn't know that until yesterday. we're all thinking scola and scherer. oh, but we always knew he was number two last time. how come we didn't know -- nobody's confirmed that, by the way. let's take a look at tim dolan, what the cardinal from this city did. the archbishop from new york. he spoke about the new focus on the poor that's ushered in by the selection of this new pope, francis. let's listen to him, local cardinal here. >> you can't sit in the sistine chapel underneath michelangelo's judgment. all who are good to the poor, come to heaven, all of you who turn your back on the poor, literally go to hell, okay? to elect a man who just radiated that sense of loving embrace of the poor, that was very important. >> sell it. >> he has something -- >> tim dolan --

>> there's a word in spanish. it translates as love. what it means, it means affection, it means warmth. it's something you would feel toward your grandfather or very trusted friend or something like that. he has that. and, you know, it's a connection, the little that we know about him, the way he strikes so many, particularly among hispanics, he has that. as pope, with that connection, that's going to make him a superstar. pope john xxiii, he had it. >> john paul connected with people. he connected -- >> i'm talking about john xxiii is our liberal -- >> he had it. even john paul connected with people deeply. this pope i think will do that. this pope, let's flip it now. we've done a lot of praising of this pope for social justice. he's the first jesuit. he really has that mission of social justice but has an extraordinary task ahead of him. this is a church with scandal. it has stress cracks in the foundation that are moral. a global organization that is global is going to be hard and it needs a lot of work. >> bernard law living in the house. >> and the other thing is, if you think about it, this pope,

he wants to do a penchant for the poor. that's a way to coalesce a lot of catholics who are straying around his papacy. >> i think this means a lot to us. i wanted to something again tonight about it because i think it's a big thing to talk about. we don't do it very often here. it's spiritual but also about social justice. both of you got it right tonight. okay. thank you, charles, and thank you, raul reyes. coming up, perhaps another historic first. we're going to be joined by christine quinn, sitting there, who's hoping to become the first female mayor of new york. new york, new york, the town so nice they named it twice. this is "hardball," the place for politics.

mayor michael bloomberg of new york where i'm at right now wouldn't be welcomed down in mississippi i bet because state lawmakers down there overwhelmingly approved what they call the anti-bloomberg bill. bans towns from requiring restaurants to post calorie counts on menus or to limit portion sizes. the mississippi measure also prohibits any rule banning toys from being handed out with kids' meals. mississippi is the most obese state in america. we'll be right back.

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♪ we, we chocolate cross over. ♪ yeah, we chocolate cross over. ♪ [ male announcer ] introducing fiber one 80 calorie chocolate cereal. ♪ chocolate. that's because state lawmakers down there have overwhelmingly approved what they called the antibloomberg bill bans towns from requiring restaurants to post calorie counts on venues or to limit portion sizes. mayor bloomberg tried to do with his ban on large sodas. the mississippi measure also we're back after three terms, mayor of new york michael bloomberg will leave office at the end of the year. and that may open the door to history. because new york city council speaker christine quinn is hoping to become the first female mayor of the country's largest city. over 8 million people live here. here's quinn announcing her candidacy last saturday. >> new york for my family was a beacon, a place where they believed if they came, great almost magical things would happen and they did. and that's what i want to make sure remains the ultimate truth

about new york city. i'm kicking off today our walk and talk tour. we're going to walk and talk our way through every neighborhood in the city. and i think it's a great way to hear directly from new yorkers. what's going on in their homes? what's going on in their lives? so i can make sure when i'm mayor my focus is their focus. >> nice pictures there. christine quinn, madame speaker. i'm driving in today, says you've got to ask her the question. was it good for new york? for you to support letting michael bloomberg have three terms when the people of new york voted twice to limit the mayor's terms to two? >> we were in a moment, chris, the worst economic crisis since the depression and i feel like it was the right decision to give voters the chance to keep some elected officials. let others go, have the opportunity of consistency in face of that economic crisis. and in the time, the mayor and i have had in these extra terms, we've passed more pro tenant laws than any other time. >> so it was good?

>> i think so. >> let me ask you about the whole idea of change. when they changed the roles on the presidential terms when they set up the two-term limit under truman, the congressman was a republican congressman said it shouldn't affect truman. do you think they could change laws to affect term limits on the person in office? doesn't that change the rules after the public twice in new york city voted against it? voted for term limits. >> it was an extreme time. hopefully a time we never have to face again economically. and what we gave voters with uz the chance to exercise their right as voters. and some elected officials that year in 2009 came back and some didn't. but, you know what i think this mayor's race is going to be about really is the future. not what happened in 2009 but what's going to happen -- >> they didn't like it. >> i think that's clearly true. >> why do you think rudy giuliani, people loved him, he wasn't a billionaire, didn't get a third term right after 9/11. that was a different story. >> it was a different proposal rudy giuliani gave. he wanted more time in office as opposed what the mayor and i did where we said we would stand in

front of the voters and they would get to decide yes or no. rudy wanted it given to him without ever having to go back before the voters. >> where is bloomberg on you? >> you'd have to ask bloomberg. >> let's talk about the thing that has caused him trouble. i wouldn't compare it to franklin roosevelt packing the supreme court, but in a certain trivial way, this 16-ounce thing, really bugs a lot of people. this is not the mommy state, the daddy state whatever you want to call it. why should anybody in public have a right to tell me how large a coke i can drink? >> the mayor and i -- >> do you agree with that? >> i don't support the soda ban. now, that said, i want to congratulate the mayor. he's done more to fight obesity probably than anybody in any city anywhere. but i worry if you tell people you can't have that, they're going to go get two of them. when we passed the smoking ban which i was the lead sponsor of the health committee chair. that was about your smoke not

getting to hurt me as opposed to this which is a personal decision. >> i agree. your principle would be stop people from waving guns around or having guns because they can kill people. but my question is, i really like bloomberg, i think he's really smart. but i think this 16-ounce thing took away from some of his credibility with something far more important, which is guns. do you agree? >> no, i mean -- >> people think of him as the 16-ounce guy. he's going to boss us around about cokes, of course he wants to take away our guns. >> he's been known as a guy with big ideas he puts out there. that's a credit to him. both the work not just in new york but across the country on guns r i don't think you can touch him on that. and it's incredibly important. guns are a plague in our cities and other parts of our country, as well. innocent victims walking down the street not getting to go home at night. i was with my friend last night -- >> can i say something nice about your city? i love it. i think rudy did a hell of a job

cleaning up the city. my kids love the city. young people do stuff in this town at night they would never have done 20 years ago. the murder rate is way down. >> right. >> and it's such a good thing to be in the most popular city, the greatest city, broadway's never been better. all the stars are here. good luck. >> thank you. we're going to make it better. >> i might even endorse you whatever it's worth. christine quinn, maybe the first lesbian mayor of new york, maybe the first gay mayor of new york, you decide. we'll talk about pope francis and what it says about the growing power of latinos and latinas. you're watching "hardball."