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the lead story from yesterday's program. in an unexpected turn of events in steubenville, ohio, where two teen boys stand accused of assaulting a 16-year-old girl, both cases wrapped their arguments. we expect a ruling from judge thomas lipps momeshortly. this case has been marked by small town uproar and demonstrations and national attention fueled by evidence that was made public by a social media. as soon as we have the verdict from judge lipps, we will bring you in that news. until then, we bring you the president's trip to israel. this could be the largest photo op in the year when he visited the west bank. the photograph op is a time honored civic tradition.

it is calculated to show a leader in his or her best light. a cynic would not call it much of an opportunity, because the photo op is a staged event cleverly, or not cleverly described as news. photo op was coined by the nixon administration. president george herbert walker bush was said to describe a photo session as a modified limited photo op sans statement. the opportunity to be photographed under favorable conditions is key. sometimes the opportunity the press corps is being given to capture as people is more about the event. bigger than the individual photos. sometimes a group of leaders willing to seen together and have a picture snapped is what makes an indelible mark on history. in 1979, the carter

administration managed it put together this photo opportunity with sadat and beghan. israel ended 30 years of war through a peace treaty brought together by carter. years later, bill clinton sought to reenact. israeli prime minister took the hand of yasser arafat. as president clinton said at the time, it was the peace at the time. president obama will have a handshake between the leaders, we know this trip will not have that kind of photo finish. from the looks of the itinerary, it will be tourism more than diplomacy. the tour is filled with stops at

some of the popular destinations. the church of the nativity in bethlehem. of course, he will meet with president peretz and benjamin netanyahu. he will spend time with the authority president abbas. arguably, it has been a long time since the president has directly approached the issue of israeli-palestinian peace. this expedition is more exploratory. as president obama told channel tv 2 this week, he plans to do a lot of listening this week. >> i intend to meet with fayad and to hear from them what is their strategy and their vision. where do they think this should go. >> in fact, the president's

itinerary will skip some issues. the white house has confirmed the first visit to israel will not be to present a middle east plan. some may call it a lost opportunity, but that is perhaps a good thing. perhaps this is the right strategy for the united states in the moment. perhaps the way forward for a new peace is without the united states leading the charge. at the table with me is analyst and contributor raula. and former u.s. congress member patrick murphy and david harris. thank you for being here, first of all. i want to find out if you agree. maybe the president is trying to be more tourist than diplomat. he is just trying to take in the

experience of the middle east, but lowering expectations by his being there. >> first of all, those of us who worked in the middle east peace terrain for so many years are delighted the president is going to israel as well as to the west bank. it is incredibly important for him to establish a direct connection with the israeli people. he had been criticized for not traveling to israel in his first term. i completely agree the president should not be taken new peace plan at this point in time. he has never been under so many threats. i think what the israeli people are looking for is the personal assurance that i know the president can provide the israeli people that he has their back. >> there has been polling that shows the israelis don't believe the president has a particularly favorable attitude toward the

country. there is a poll that shows 33% believe that the president's attitude toward israel is favorable. 14% say indifferent. 38% say hostile. 15% say other. there really hasn't been any difference in the president's policies toward israel than any previous president. i'm not sure if that is a function of the political opposition to him and what is presented to him. the reality, congress member, the policies are lineal than the former president. >> he has been there as a senator and marc mentioned he is coming as a president. this is important for him to show up and say it is important for us to be here and we have your back. it is important to understand it takes two to tango. we need the leadership to come together. i think the president's

itinerary to come together and have a settlement. we need to make sure they have the security to keep their families safe. one part of the tour is the iron dome. looking how we partner with them on a military side. when i was there talking to families who are under that threat like hafa and stuff. they will be reassured when they see the president of the united states being there as our commander in chief. >> there is another side to the equation as well. the president will meet with president abbas. they feel they have not had their back. >> i'm sorry, it is ridiculous we are talking about protecting one side of the equation when that side is occupying land and millions of people under occupation.

israel has a choice today. the president tried so many times to talk to them about two state solutions. they rejected it. netanyahu was pointing his finger in the face. when biden was there the last time, they announced on the day of his arrival, more settlements and they do not care for any plan the u.s. administration would put in front of them. they were trying to put both sides in negotiation. we are facing one threat. not the missiles. israel has to decide if it is a jewish state or give up the jewish state. they are ruling over a majority of arabs in the land they are controlling. or it has to be non-territory

solution. obama cannot force the israelis and palestinians, but can advise the leadership about the next generation. this is a real threat. >> that's why i said it takes two to tango. we got done fighting another war in the gaza strip. both sides have to come together. i agree with you on the settlements. you are right there. it does take two to tango. >> let's get david in. >> if i can come in. first of all, as it happens, we took a trip to israel and west bank and jordan. it was a prelude to what the president is going to do. your preface is not how they see it in the region. we need the president in the region. we have a new government.

as marc said we have real regional concerns. what is going in syria and iran and egypt are not to be dismissed. the israeli people need to hear from the president directly. until now, as mark twain once said about the music of richard vaugner, the policies are good. i think it is better if you allow me to not to focus on the past. >> that's in the future. not the past. >> the past includes failed attempts by israelis to engage in the two-state agreement with two prime ministers. i would rather look forward. i think the president is coming at an important time. it is about more than a photo op. it is about inspiring hope and confidence. >> we need to talk about the president and some of the conditions on the ground and the

two sides seem to be having different discussions about what are the priorities. we will talk more about that when we come back. he was the point man of the middle east peace process under two presidential administrations. ambassador dennis ross joins us next. cold feels nice on sore muscles, huh? you know you could just use bengay zero degrees. medicated pain relief you store in the freezer. brrr...see ya boys. [ male announcer ] bengay zero degrees. freeze and move on.

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okay, i want to start with the verdict from judge thomas lipps in the steubenville, ohio, trial. trent mayes on the big red football team and standout receiver, malik richmond. the verdict is guilty. i will bring in a specialist in family law. she has been following the case.

thank you very much, angelique, thank you for being here. >> it is not surprising here. if the victim does not show any physical resistance, it is irrelevant. >> mayes was shown to have sex with the victim. what had to be proved under ohio law is she was incapable of giving consent because she was incapacitated. >> yes. the defense made the argument that silence was consent. she does not have to say no. >> ron allen was covering the says. he will join us from the courthou courthouse. do we have ron? >> reporter: yes, i'm here, joy.

>> ron, there were two counts actually against one defendant. can you read through the counts for us? were both defendants found guilty or was it a mixed verdict? >> reporter: there were three counts. both defendants were found guilty of the sexual assault or rape charges. trent mays faced a charge for distributing a nude picture of a girl. he was found guilty of that charge as well. this is a juvenile case. the judge said that he was struck by the profanity and ugliness of what happened. you recall there were several eyewitnesss or friends of the defendants saw they saw the boys attack the girl in the backseat of the car and both of them at a home during the night of alcohol-fueled partying. there was eyewitness testimony. there are a series of text messages that the prosecutors retrieved hundreds of thousands

of text messages from 17 different phones and mobile devices from the teenagers at the party were using that night to talk about what happened. the judge seemed to be clearly upset by what he had read. he said this was also a sad commentary of alcohol and drinking. the defendants were found guilty and they were essentially sent away to a juvenile detention center immediately. they have to register as sex offenders. it is unclear if it carries on past their 21st birthday. >> to clarify, ron, there is no separate sentencing. it proceeds from the guilty verdict to an automatic sentence until they are 21? >> reporter: it's done. it's done. this is a juvenile proceeding. it is a much more stream lined, if you will, simple process.

there was no injujury. a retired judge was brought in from another part of ohio to preside over the case. there was concern over conflicts of interest because the boys played for the local high school football team. the beloved football team. the big red. everybody here has a connection to the football team. as a matter of fact, the original prosecutor in the case was removed because her son plays on the same football team. the state attorney general prosecuted the case. an outside judge was brought in to eliminate the appearance of a conflict of interest. it was a stream lined proceeding. they conducted it over the weekend to accommodate the judge's schedule. there is speculation there was a real strong interest of trying to do this as efficiently and quickly as possible to get this

community past this incident. it has consumed this community. there were dozens of teenagers involved that night. the testimony reveals there was a lot of drinking going on and little if any adult supervision. there is the question of whether there will be more participants at the parties charged in connection with the case. three witnesses were given immunity for their testimony. there were other witnesses there who saw things and people who took pictures and did not report this crime. >> we will listen to the judge now. hang on a second. >> throughout the trial, the court is able to view the demeanor of the witnesses, judge their credibility and weigh the evidence presented to the court. the court has done so in this case and it is the court's

decision that both of the defendants are here by adjudicated delinquent beyond a reasonable doubt on all three counts as charged. for those of you who are not familiar with the adjudication of delinquency, it is similar to a finding of guilty in an adult court. do you understand, boys? >> i want to bring evangeline gomez back in. were you surprised how quickly this case wrapped up? we got a verdict in less than 24 hours. >> yes. it stands out. there are reports the reason why the judge had to move so quickly. this was a judge brought in. not the original judge in the court. so the reports out there are saying he came in with the understanding that he was going to have this case wrapped up so he could return to his regular docket and conduct his other cases. >> okay. i want to thank you, evangeline

gomez, for being here in new york. and also thank you to ron allen. we will come back and talk about the president's trip to the middle east and bring in dennis ross. stay with us. rgain detgen t but i found myself using three times more than they say to and the clothes still weren't as clean as with tide. so we're back to tide. they're cuter in clean clothes. that's my tide. what's yours? watch this -- alakazam!

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>> given your experience, calculate the level of complete frustration and cynicism within the region and within the united states about whether or not it is possible to proceed toward a peace deal with israel and the palestinians. >> we have to put this in some perspective. we are in the 20th year of the oslo process. you were showing in the opening, the different photo ops and september 13th, 1993 handshake at the white house that bill clinton orchestrated. that's 20 years ago. on both sides, there's a high degree of cynicism and disbelief. if you are going to try to preserve and approach a two-state outcome, you have to reestablish the belief on both sides. one of the problems that exists today, each side questions whether the other is prepared to contemplate and follow through on producing a two-state outcome. if we can't deal with that and this is taking place in a

context where the region is in complete upheaval. it is easy to focus on the threat that iran represents and it is easy to look at everything that is happening in syria which is a blight on the international conscious. egypt looks unstable. into the broad mix, we have the disbelief that relates to israelis and palestinians. if you are going to make an evide effort on this issue, it has to be very well considered and you cannot launch a big initiative that will fail which will cement the disbelief. >> you mentioned syria and iran. is there a sense and maybe it is my sense that the external events protruded on the issues of israel. the palestinians want them to focus on the territory

inhibitions. we can't get to the focus of that because israel wants to hone in on the process now? >> that is a factor. the palestinians have a problem, too, because they don't control all of their territory. gaza is controlled by hamas. if you are looking out at negotiation, you are very worried to go into the negotiation and how will hamas exploit this and will there be a backlash from hamas and makes it difficult to proceed? the environment makes it both more difficult for both sides. i would also say paradoxically because everyone else is focused elsewhere, it creates some space for the two leaders if they were prepared to try to do something. if they are going to try to do something, there has to be a

higher level of confidence if they are going to succeed. >> last question to you, ambassador ross. how cynical are you? do you really believe this trip will really do anything for a lasting peace in the region? >> i'm a congenital optimism. you could not work on this issue for the last 30 years unless you are always convinced something can be done. i'm motivated to believe that way. i think the short answer to your question is i don't think this trip will produce a break through, but this trip is very important. there is a public dimension to the trip that relates to how the president connects with the israeli public, but as he addresses the palestinians and jordanians, there is a private issue to the trip. also the peace issue. when the president says he wi wiwil will listen, the point is what are the ideas of each side. not just what the united states can offer, but the ideas of each side and how can we take those

ideas and build a common basis to proceed. >> thank you, ambassador ross for being here with me. we will take a quick break and bring my panel back and talk about how iran makes this all even more complicated. ♪ constipated? yeah. mm. some laxatives like dulcolax can cause cramps. but phillips' caplets don't. they have magnesium. for effective relief of occasional constipation. thanks. [ phillips' lady ] live the regular life. phillips'. >> announcer: did you know there are secret black market websites around the world that sell stolen identities? >> 30-year-old american man, excellent credit rating. >> announcer: lifelock monitors thousands of these sites 24 hours a day. and if we discover any of our members' data for sale,

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pledge with iran over the nuclear program. his statement clashes with benjamin netanyahu's beliefs. yet, the question of how close iran is to nuclear capability has been a source of tension with obama and netanyahu and will be an important and difficult conversation when the president is in jerusalem later this week. on that subject of iran, we were talking a bit before the break about whether the iran question becomes a distraction from the palestinian question. i want to play some sound from vice president joe biden. talking about the sanctions and reiterating the seriousness of the united states when it comes to iran. >> the big nations and presidents of the united states cannot and do not bluff.

and president barack obama is not bluffing. >> so rula, i'll start with you. this is the posture the united states has taken with iran. the most repeated talking point when we talk about the israeli peace process. are we moving past the discussion of israeli and palestinian and the look over here distraction point. >> it is both. the government and netanyahu made it clear from day one they don't negotiate with the palestinians. they don't want to handle that issue. they built a wall around that issue. it is a tragedy for the israelis. they have to give up one of the two things. their jewish identity or they have to give up the democracy of the state. it has to become an apartheid

state. the problem with iran -- the challenge to netanyahu is with the process. many others said iran is far from getting the nuclear bomb. we can stop them without actually real intervention. attacks are taking place over and over in iran. who is killing all the scientists and many other things. sanctions are hammering the iranian economy. to focus on iran, for benjamin netanyahu, he is waving the threat to the audience. he is using one of his guys as the minister of the housing and infrastructure. the man that tells you from day one, i will build in the areas. the area that connects western

bank with jerusalem. breaking the last hope for a two-state solution. >> is iran a genuine threat or distraction from the point of the peace process? >> it is a genuine threat to israel. no doubt from the ayotallah down. a direct war of words in support of terrorism against israel. israelis feel that. part of the purpose of the trip for the president is not merely to say we care about the iran nuclear program. it is to convince israelis that they can take the steps necessary for peace knowing the united states is behind their support. the fact we will not move on the palestinian question unless the israelis feel they have the security of the united states completely to take those risks for peace. i have known that ever since

camp david one. this is why this is so essential. the work of groups on the ground to continue to nurture a peace to incubate this while the president gets his ducks in a row. >> he is going to the area to bond and making a peace or talk tough to netanyahu's government and iran. to send a message to iran that u.s. has bonded with israel. none of this is about middle east peace, but a conversation that takes us off the point. >> i think it is about more than one thing. it is about iran. it is not just about iran because of israel. let's be here. all of us who visited the arab countries in the gulf know what is at the top of their agenda. it is not israel. it is iran. it is the shi'ite and sunni

islam. not to allow iran to get the bomb. do we want to trigger a new nuclear arms race in this region? we don't. i think the president is right in the way he is approaching iran. there is much less difference between netanyahu and obama than first suggested a few moments ago. they see things the same way. number one, the president said no to containment and yes to prevention of iran. number two, yes to diplomacy. not diplomacy that is open-ended. diplomacy with sanctions that tell iranians you cannot run out the clock. number three, we, the united states, have to have a credible military option that says to iranians that we're not bluffing. don't mislead us. that military option, ironica y ironically, is the likely way to get to a peaceful settlement. people who served in the region

know we don't want to get involved in another conflict. it is not a distraction. when iranian leaders against the back drop of jewish history talk about the elimination of the jewish state, we're obligated to take that threat very seriously. >> it is like a chess game, joy. here you have iran which we don't want in our interests to get a nuclear weapon. americans say why do we care so much. if we can't take them out, we have to struggle. we don't want that to happen. that is why diplomacy is so important. to his point earlier, this not just a photo op. this is three days of the president of the united states going there and as a follow through, the new secretary of state put this on top of his agenda to see what he can do and try to find some type of solution here because we can't

let it go to nuclear weapon. we don't want to start another war in the region. >> we don't want another iraq. we have to be sure. the tenth anniversary of iraq is now. we have to be sure now more than ever that the reason for the war ten years earlier that was weapons of mass destruction did not exist. we need to be sure there is actually -- >> rula, this is not about the united states. >> let's let david talk. >> this is the iaea that has said repeatedly they have profound suspicions about the iranian program and they believe it is defense oriented. iran is supporting the carnage in syria. hamas -- >> wait. we'll have more on this. i know you have lots more to say. we are actually -- i want to make a quick point the iaea was

firm that iraq did not have weapons of mass destruction and the u.s. went forward. >> one assessment was flawed? the international community, the british, the french, the germans and israelis and persamericans iaea agreed on the military aspects of the iranian program that have to be confronted. >> that will have to be the last word for this segment. thank you, david harris. the rest are staying with more. when we come back, ten years after the war in iraq began, the new report showing how it all adds up. it 's been said that be auty is in the eye of the beholder. well...behold. behold water so blue it merges with the sky above. behold natural beauty above the sea, and far below. behold smiles so wide

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after ten years after it was launched on march 19th, 2003, we can say about the overthrown of saddam hussein. first, ten years. that is how long we have gone with the wars between iraq. $50 million to $60 million. that is how much the bush administration predicted it would cost. the price tag was put at $600 billion. $600 billion. that's only a little more than halfway through the war. that's the lion's share of an estimated $750 billion appropriated by congress for the wars in iraq, afghanistan and other fronts from the quote/unquote, war on terror. 70% of that came not from the war on budget, but supplemental appropriations from the non-partisan stemson center. the war did not officially end

until december 15th 2011. the day the american flag was lowered in baghdad making the iraq conflict a war lasting eight years and eight months and three weeks and four days. and after all that, you got the check, america, in the amount of $823 billion and change. that's what the bill came to up through 2011. even that might be under estimating things. what we might end up paying for the iraq war and military activity in afghanistan and pakistan, might end up closer to, get this, just under $4 trillion. according to costs of war, a research project by brown university's watson institute for international studies. adding $1.4 trillion to the national debt and costing the average american taxpayer about $4,000 per person. interest payments could increase the overall cost even more. what about the economy in iraq?

23%. that is as high the unemployment rate was last year by the cost of war project. 2.8 million iraqis were displaced from their homes or have since fled. that is 1 out of every 12 iraqis. 134 iraqi civilians have been killed since the war beginning. that swells to 330,000 deaths when you include american and ally soldiers and journalists and civilians. for what? saddam hussein? weapons of mass destruction that did not exist? there were no guarantees that i or my guests have the answer. we will look back at the iraq war and look forward next.

ten years ago yesterday,

vice president dick cheney appeared on nbc's "meet the press." he and others were set to launch the iraq war in a few days. he was confident how it would turn out. he was confident how our president and others would be perceived in how the country would invade. >> i think things have gotten so bad inside iraq, we will be greeted as liberators. our president is clear that our purpose there is if we're forced to do this, we'll in fact be a stand-up government and have respect for human rights. it involves a major commitment by the united states. it is a commitment worth making. >> if your analysis is not correct and we are treated as conquerors, do you think the american people are prepared for a long, costly and bloody battle with a significant american

casualties? >> i don't think it will be unfolding that way, tim. >> vice president cheney, was, of course, wrong. as he was wrong about the weapons of mass destruction that saddam hussein had and the potential to build a nuclear arms arsenal which could turn into a mushroom cloud. while the war may be an overused mond moniker, it is a way to describe the deadly battle based purely on lies. what do we make of the aftermath? joining me is rula jebreal and marc ginsberg and then the first iraq war to serve in the congress and the american andy. i'll have to go and visit next when i'm in d.c.

thank you for joining us. i want to start with you, patrick. you served in the iraq war. i remember talking to people when i was in local news and talking to family members of local troops there who believed they were in iraq because of 9/11. when you were there, why did you think you were in iraq? >> the people like myself and others thought they were there because the administration from dick cheney and others said we were there for two reasons. the connection to 9/11 and they had weapons of mass destruction. both of those were false. there was a reckless arrogance from the bush administration that put our men and women in harm's way. when i was there in the 82nd division, i lost 19 men in my unit because of those mistakes from the bush administration. it goes to the point of no one has been held accountable. it breaks my heart when i think of the 4,400 american lives that

were lost and over 100,000 iraqi lives that were lost because of the that strategic blunder. >> that is what drives a lot of us crazy. the fact we did this and it was because of 9/11 and they could deliver nuclear capability. they did not have a delivery system. things that should have been assessed more clearly. for iraqis, they seem to have been an afterthought in the consequences of who paid a price. we talk about our price, but what about the price for iraqis? >> the price they are still paying for it today. that say devastating statement. that is an emotional statement. iraq had gone through a horrible dictatorship. it had gone through a war with iran for eight years. the first gulf war devastated

the infrastructure and the sanctions that lasted for ten years and ended up killing about 500,000 children according to the u.n. let's be clear here about sanctions. i heard you talking about iran and sanctions. sanctions are like carpet bombing. they affect the individuals, the people. not the government. the people are the ones that are still affected and affected today in iraq. >> absolutely. we went in the country and heard dick cheney in the sound bite and go in and talk about representing the iraqi people. no one ever asked the iraqi people would you like us to come in and change your government? it was done at our own behest. how do we process, marc, the idea that the united states government can make a decision to change someone else's government. >> the fact of the matter is this was a war of choice. for those of us bred the propaganda by dick cheney and

colin powell. powell was the person who went before the united nations and said to the court of world public opinion that saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction. he added the moniker of credibility to the argument. those of us who watched this can say one thing. what you did was unleash a pandora's box that inflicted more harm on the iraqi people and opened the aggressive designs in region that for saddam hussein had blocked. >> i want to ask -- we will have more about that when we come back. i want to ask you about what the iraq war and the united states decision to promulgate it and what it did to us and our credibility. when we come back, the one thing that former president bush will not say. with centurylink as your trusted partner, it can.

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harris-perry. you may have seen the documentary "hubris" here on msnbc which rachel maddow hosted. it reairs this weekend and you will see matt lauer ask former president george w. bush this question. >> was there any consideration of apologizing to the american people? >> i mean apologizing mean that the decision was a wrong decision. i don't believe it was a wrong decision. >> there are no signs on the horizon that an apology from the iraq war from those who got us into this week. whether it would help our understanding abroad is the subject of our round table. with us at the table is ru

rula jebreal and marc ginsberg and patrick murphy as well as david harris and andy shallal. i was asking you before we went to break, rula, how the iraq war and the bush administration going into it and the obvious lies that were exposed not long afterwards, how did that view the country? >> it was considered an illegal war because suddenly they wanted to bypass the yunited nations. >> punishing people. >> even journalists around the world were criticizing. they say don't go into the world because you will break the equallibrum in that area. not only an apology, but hand

over to the haig. today, the americans were inv e invading iraq, another invasion was starting. iran. iranians were winning in that same moment. if you look at the region, who is controlling today? iraq. the iranians. they are bypassing the sanctions through iraq and they are helping the syrian regime slaughter their own people. >> you had a majority shi'ite government in iran. in iraq, you had a sunni government controlling and containing them. by going in there, we broke the relationship between iraq and iran. >> when you look at the perspective for the future, we installed a government and we said this is the democratic-elected government. the government that supports and

gives weapons to abbas and hezbollah, we altered the whole equation. after abu ghraib, you could not travel. when that journalist took his shoe and threw it at george w. bush, it was the way the arab world saw america and its president. >> as a soldier, patrick, did you feel at the time when you were in iraq, there was absolutely no greeting us? how quickly did you realize we are not here to liberate these people. we're occupying these people. >> it was the first memorial service. we had the combat boots and rifle with the helmet on top. it happened too many times. what infuriates me, so much, joy, the same folks responsible for this are the same ones cheerleading for us to go into

syria. for us to say let's bomb iran. it is many because the history of our country is we have a strong military, which we always should have. we are the reluctant warriors. we should think about this because the counterbalance to iran is iraq. now iraq is in bed with iran. iran is come policomplicit in t support with syria. we are not learning the lessons. >> i think the iraqi people need more than an apology. they need a lot of reparations. the country has been devastated. there has been so much money poured into the country, you think the place should be flourishing. >> we were told iraq should pay for its own liberation. it's own rebuilding. >> there are tons of projects that are half finished.

it is money that is being embezzeled. unemployment is ridiculous. it is over 25% anecdotally speaking. the government doesn't want to talk about it. food is there, but no one can afford it. the middle class has been decimated. you mentioned at the top of the hour there were 2.8 million refugees. those are internally displaced. that doesn't consider outside country. a lot of the people in syria are having to move back and staying in refugee camps. they don't have shelter and security or food or homes over their heads. >> one thing to understand in the context is what this has done for the foreign policy and

american's people perception of our role abroad. the fact of the matter is the dangers the american people now face are more considerably harmful to american's attitudes toward military involvement because of iraq. what iraq did was it expended our treasury and put men and women in harm's way where they, themselves and parents and families and communities are reluctant to believe our government faces the types of threats we may face in the future. when i stop and think about when i went to visit twice and saw the young men and women who volunteered as patrick said after 9/11, thinking they were doing the right thing and now our standing in the middle east is far. it has enhanced iran's statue. americans weren't respect in the region. both shi'ite and sunni in the middle east are not ruling as

they were. israelis are concerned that because of what happened to us in iraq, we would not be prepared to get involved in a war of choice, but war of necessity. >> and let's remember also the programs of torturing. the united states was stood out for the right values and whole world would fall in love with the values. suddenly the united states is torturing and taking pictures of dead bodies and urinating on them and taking pictures. they are saying this is who we are today. >> the people that exposed that torture are the ones that are facing the consequences. private bradley is in jail today while dick cheney and george bush are outside. >> i have to ask the former congress member, what is broken and wrong in congress given all

we talked about and all of the bla blackening of the name in congress, you look at the hysteria over benghazi. you look at the zeal to do it again in iran. why no consequences? >> most of americans, including congress, don't have skin in the game. it is less than 1% of our men and women serving over there. the ones serving over there and congress, you look at congress right now, it is 20% which military experience. 40 years ago, over 75% had military experience. it is usually the military. usually david petraeus was speaking out. if we're going to do this, we need several hundred thousand troops. the general is off the mark.

that guy was the highest ranking army officer and the bush administration disregarded his professional opinion. >> the person who was most zealous about going into iraq was dick cheney. i want to thank rula and marc ginsberg. a quick programming note. you must tune in to watch "hubris" hosted by rache rachel maddow. coming up, we will switch and talk about other bad guys. the coke brothers. it's the billionaire takeover and the preview of the documentary "american winter." first kid

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we are moving on now to talk politics and poker. because you see playing poker, especially political poker can be quite a gamble. take charles and david coke. they played a major role in the 2011 election and lost a big hand. just because the chips are down doesn't mean the billionaires are about to fold. charles coke discovered the next development. as a company, we are committed to doing what is right in every aspect of our business. we will persuade what is good for the politicians to do what is good first. it appears the koch brothers are not bluffing. they are going all in, and they

may be raising the stakes in another way. on tuesday, "l.a. weekly" said the koch brothers may put in for the paper. that includes "the los angeles times" and "the chicago tribune" and "ballot sun" along with others. they could face tough competition along from rupert murdoch. if they wanted the papers, they have the bank roll to make it happen. in typical koch fashion, they have neither confirmed or denied the rumor. in this case, the koch brothers are the house. if they choose to continue persuading politicians, they may improve their already formidable hand. at the table is the lead writer

to "the nation" magazine. we have the associate professor at law as well as aaron lewis and staying with us is former democratic congress member is patrick murphy. i have to go to you first. we are talking about the political gamble in which the kochs already played. they did not do well in the last weather. they hoped to unseat president barack obama. what keeps them moving forward? >> if you look at what they are doing to try to buy the policy debate as opposed to the candidates, there is no policy that they did not frame the question. there is a danger in thinking about them as ideologues.

they are trying to consolidate power. this is a ideology trying to serve their power. they are trying to increase how much money and control they have over society. >> lee, if we look at it that way, the ultimate would be the white house. are the koch brothers after shaping the society more to their liking and having the conservative policy? >> the koch brothers are unique among many billionaires. their philanthropy headquarters has the guy who is in charge of handing out the grants. it is difficult to divorce the two when the heritage foundation

is pushing global warming or trying to attack the epa. it comes back to the same similar agenda. >> i do get the sense they are trying to infultrate the mind system. if they have the university systems, doesn't that give you the sense they want more than the pieces in washington? they want the whole country to shift in their direction? >> they do, joy. they are doubling down. it is a grasp of power. you look on the democratic side. a great think tank, the heritage, which is our competitor, is three times the size of cap and all of these other branches. they are putting their money where their policies are. that is outsourcing american jobs and starting unnecessary

wars. we can't afford that as a country. it is bad policy and bad politics. it will hurt the average american family. >> the question i have is whether or not they actually win elections with their money, haven't the kochs won election? we are not talking poverty or jobs. we are talking about tax cuts and tax policy and debt. that's where they want to be. >> i don't know if i would give them that much credit for the change in the debate. i would date that back to 1980 when ronald reagan came to the floor. the money is like jet fuel. on the other hand, they are having fist fights outside the cockpit over who should be flying the plane and they don't know where they want to go necessarily. i don't know if we should be prepared to acknowledge that

there will be a total takeover. you worked at newspapers and i worked at newspapers. you can work at a newspaper and change the editorial page. it is hard to herd the rest of the cats. the reporters out to serve an audience expecting traffic and weather and news and really what happened at city hall. i would say it is probably too early to panic. rupert murdoch once owned "the village voice." >> right. a lot of people are giving a sideout to "the wall street journal." >> the guy's a wealthy developer in san diego and bought "the tribune." he took the editorials that were partisan and they looked like news. >> the kochs are not the only ones in the game. you have the bradley foundation. the kochs are the public face of

this. there is a lot of money on this issue on the right. >> you have a supreme court who has a fetishistic relationship with the first amendment. what you see in the past few years is the koch brothers repeatedly buying up properties that get the special protection. they are going into universities and lobbying. they are going into political speech. now, this is sort of the foray into the press which is most protected. >> two points with zephyr's comments. it goes back to errol's point. they are playing a different game. they are playing in state legislatures and beyond. when you have a redistricting fight like in pennsylvania, where there are more americans that vote for the democrats for the house of representatives, the republicans still have control of 22 more seats. they still have the power in the

house. that is why we have john boehner who is not place very nicely with president obama. although president obama is doing his best. >> i want to make one quick point about the university topic. a lot of wealthy corporations and funds fund private endow chairs. koch is unique that it came out recently they are giving to florida state university. they say you accept our money and we approve the type of research and who is hired at the school. again, this goes back to the foundation, which is trans connected with the lobbying office. >> what happens then, you have that leading to global warming. the science department is leading to the kochs direction. they can actually have an affect on academia where you are not doing a deal on the newspaper. they are shaping the debate and shaping what students are

learning. up next, new york's mayor is soon out of a job, but he is being clear he is not going anywhere. he is going national. a hearty congratulations to our own melissa harris-perry and nerdland crew at the last night glaad media awards here. mhp won in the category of outstanding journalism news segment and this segment. melissa has made a point of using her voice to push for the equality of all and we are proud of the acknowledgment she has received. go melissa! more after the break. my mother made the best toffee in the world. it's delicious. so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea

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with an intuitive motion activated lid and seat,ad bold makes sure you'll never have to ask him again. how much are you prepared to spend to counter the nra? >> i don't know how to answer that. when i care about something, i care about something. i have an obligation as an american and a citizen and human being to help others.

smoking is going to kill 1 billion people this century. i put $600 million to stop the tobacco companies to stop kids from smoking. >> you are prepared to spend more money for stricter gun regulations? >> wouldn't it be happy if we didn't have to do that? >> that was michael bloomberg talking to our own david gregory on "meet the press." with only eight months left in his term, we are seeing how deep his pockets go. just last month, he contributed $2.2 million in ads for debbie halverson for the illinois house seat. mayor bloomberg may not want to talk dollar amounts, but the

money he already spent speaks volumes. i want to go into what michael bloomberg has done. he has a mixed record. more wins than losses. first let's start with the bloomberg wins. these were candidates that were endorsed by his pac. robin kelly and senator king. then gloria mcleod. then representative dan maffei in new york and attorney general kathleen kane. let's look at his losses. val demings in florida. then representative bob dold in illinois. and then andrew roraback. he is five up and three down. errol, that is a better average.

carl rove's pac did way worse than that. he is now incentivize to keep doing that? >> the key thing you have to remember is he spent $10 million on this effort. is this sustainable? the other thing is the way it is done. the race in illinois. he swept in with $2 million in the closing weeks of the campaign. you cannot do that more than once or twice before people realize this is the strategy. here is how we will prepare for it. is this sustainable? we don't know. what difference does it make is the other question. that smatterring of winners you put out there, there is no difference. king with some of it over same-sex marriage and smoking and some of it is over gun control. we don't really know how you put all of this together. when you start to do that, you

lose the ability to come in quickly with a couple million dollars. >> patrick, when you see this money being spent against you, how much does this shake up a campaign? >> the average campaign is $1.3 million. when you put in $2 million, that is significant. mayor bloomberg is a game changer. he is putting democrats on notice. when you have situations like newtown, connecticut when 20 first graders are murdered sitting at their desks and over 2,400 gun deaths in america in the past few months. you have representatives that vote with the nra, he is saying i'm coming after you. debbie halverson lost the race. now democrats have to say, will

i have bloomberg? the only game in town used to be the nra when it came to guns. now bloomberg is a major player. >> isn't that the game changer now? it used to be the nra and nothing else mattered. there is a new ball game where you can pay for the "a" rating because bloomberg can come at you. >> did is interesting because we have special interest groups going after you. at the end of the day, gun victims don't have a lobby really and manufacturers do. they have the nra. bloomberg is adding balance to the system. it is not a good system and i'm not endorsing it. we had a system where the nra and gun manufacturers have dominated the debate. >> zephyr, the last question to you, bloomberg is an independent. he has been in every political party. it is interesting he is not on one ideological side. he is not on one partisan side.

he could spend money for or against you in any political party. >> i think what's interesting about bloomberg and i want to bring it back together with the conversation about koch. what you say is right, but you want to compare how billionaires are engaging in politics. as you were saying earlier, bloomberg is not consolidating to preserve his own power. with that said, it is not ways undermining his own financial empire. he will play in areas that are entirely separate. he is, in some ways, i think, more ideological than the koch brothers. he is engaging sporadically. >> the koch brothers have an overweaning ideologically. they will make money. it will directly impact them. this guy will not personally benefit from gun control. it is ideological, but issues

based. >> it is. i want to talk not necessarily about panic, but how to respond. when you talk about how to respond to bloomberg, it is responding to an aspiring monarch. when you talk about responding to the koch brothers, it is how do you respond to the mafia. >> that is a sound bite i want to end on. this film could, or i will say, will, change the way you think about america's poor. stay with us. ♪ [ male announcer ] no matter what city you're playing tomorrow.

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especially when it comes to what you say and do. so lead by example and respect others. you won't let prejudice into your home. the more you know. for all the talk of economic recovery in the u.s., the 48.5

million americans living below the poverty line shows we are not progressing. the one of three of us living below or just above the poverty line. a new hbo documentary puts faces to the trend. they are not the faces or stories that fit the stereotypes that sadly we come to expect. the film follows eight ordinary oregon families grappling with a fate they never thought possible. poverty. >> i hear them in bed sometimes saying we skipped dinner because we need to feed our kids. sometimes when i hear that, i cry sometimes. >> for the middle class in this country, we have a one strike and you're out economy. the system that once was in place to cushion those crises has been frayed. the most endangered species in

america is the middle class. >> we have joe and henry ganz with us. i told you in the break that i cried watching the documentary with my husband and kids. we know the most empoverished states are in the south. mississippi and louisiana. we tend to think of poverty being more entrenched in african-american and hispanic communities. oregon is 88.6% white. most of the families you talked to in the documentary were white and appeared to have been formerly middle class. why did you make that choice? i'll start with you, harry. >> oregon is not only white, but has good social services.

this whole middle class that fallen into the economy has taxed the system. it doesn't matter whether it is non-profit or secular. they cannot handle it. it is too much. >> our statistic is 46% of the country is in poverty or near poverty. we chose portland because we wanted a city that could be identified with by most of america that doesn't identify with l.a. or new york. this is a situation that is national. we chose a city to work in. you could find the same families any city in the country. >> you are sensitive to the model poor. these are the children that are so articulate to say i want my mom to eat dinner and i won't. the model aspect. are you sensitive to the criticism that you did not show the face of the entrenched

poverty. you showed the face everyone could relate to. >> we found the families through listening in on the 211 hotline that people call social services. we heard thousands and thousands of families. most of them want to work and dignity of providing for the families. these are not the exception. these are the rule. of course there is fraud in the system. that is minute compared to the families who are working poor or out of work who want to provide for their families. >> if you look at the working poor and realize nearly half the country is poor or nearly poor, there is every type of family. i'm sure we could have done this in any city across the country and gotten families that are relatab relatable. the people want nothing more than to get back on their feet and become contributing members of society. >> the most frightening thing about the documentary are familiar. they were married.

they got married and had children. some were homeowners. they have done everything you were told to construct the american dream and they still found themselves because of unemployment because they could not pay their lights or keep the water on. it is terrifying in that way. it is almost a horror movie in a sense for the american family. >> a number of them had gone to college. >> right. >> this is garden variety poverty. it is across the board. they go for social services and they get something to eat so they don't starve. they don't get enough to get back on their feet to become contributing members of society. they don't have enough to get themselves and their family to not worry about their bills every day of their lives. >> many cases, they are in the food pantries weeping because these are people who are giving to food pantries and now they are using them.

i wish we had more time. we have more time. we will talk with you. when we come back, one of the subjects of the gantz brothers joins us. hers is the most impactful story in the movie. stay with us. we will hear from her. ♪ [ slap! ] [ male announcer ] your favorite foods fighting you? fight back fast with tums. calcium-rich tums starts working so fast you'll forget you had heartburn. ♪ tum tum tum tum tums it's healthier, ammonia-free. and with aloe, vitamin e, and coconut oil, my hair looks healthier than before i colored. i switched. you should too, to natural instincts. a talking car. but i'll tell you what impresses me. a talking train.

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as he goes back to taking tylenol. i was okay, but after lunch my knee started to hurt again. and now i've got to take more pills. ♪ yup. another pill stop. can i get my aleve back yet? ♪ for my pain, i want my aleve. ♪ [ male announcer ] look for the easy-open red arthritis cap. bikes and balloons, and noodles on spoons. a kite, a breeze, a dunk of grilled cheese. catches and throws, and spaghettio's. a wand, some wings, soup with good things. sidewalks and doodles and wholesome noodles. puddles and pails and yes, puppy dog tails. for a lunch like this, there's a hug and a kiss. because that's what happy kids are made of. campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do. because that's what happy kids are made of. try running four.ning a restaurant is hard, fortunately we've got ink.

it gives us 5x the rewards on our internet, phone charges and cable, plus at office supply stores. rewards we put right back into our business. this is the only thing we've ever wanted to do and ink helps us do it. make your mark with ink from chase. i walked into the house and she was sitting in the kitchen in the dark. i was like, mom, what's wrong? she was crying. she didn't know what she was going to do for food for the next couple of weeks. i just couldn't do anything but hug her and tell her it would be okay. >> people want to work. you know, people just say to me over and over on the phone, i want to work. i want a job. i will do anything. and i can't get one. they don't want to live in poverty. >> that was another scene from

the new hbo documentary "american winter." the woman in that piece believed her vocation would keep her out of poverty. she thought at one point she did not know where her family's next meal was coming from. joining us now from portland, oregon, is deidra neilson. also with us are the gantz brothers. thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> you had a college education and specialized education. you still wound up in poverty. how did that happen for you? >> it's -- i don't know. like you said, i thought i was doing everything i was supposed to do. the lack of jobs, especially

now. the not knowing that even after you do these things after even after you obtain a degree and a specialized skill, you will be making minimum wage and minimum wage is not a living wage. >> what do you tell your son? your son is getting to the age where he is looking at going to college. how do you advise him knowing for you it did not help you stay out of poverty? >> that's difficult because you try to tell them that they can obtain the american dream, but as you can see, they know that it's going to be difficult. so, that's a tough question. i try to encourage all the kids. that's really a tough question. i'm sorry. i give them the same advice i got.

to go to school and try to get an education and try to make sure that he gets good grades and does all these things. i am so sorry. >> that's okay. >> the truth is the american dream is slipping away for half this country. you know, it's one thing to tell people that if you work hard and you do things by the book that you'll get ahead. these kids see their families. he could not have a harder working mother and she scraps on the weekends. she gets metal and turns it in. she gets plasma to make ends meet in addition to working a minimum wage job and she doesn't get ahead. what does that teach other children? >> i'm watching the film and watching the other stories, harry, i keep thinking about the 47%. when mitt romney said 40%

of the country themselves and t entitled to food and medical care. you see this and they are working as hard as they can and they want to get ahead to get the american dream. >> we work to breakdown that stereotype. when these politicians are talking about dollars, it affects these people. it is not a give and take situation. it is an investment in our country's future. >> you have a billionaire saying we are investing in the wrong things. day in and day out

about how they're going to make ends meet. >> the hbo documentary film airs on hbo onmont march 18. i'm here with a tease for this and hello there to all of you, what does this year's cpac pick have to do with the president presidential election reality. also in today's office policy i talk about the run up to the iran war. and by polar demand, seriously so, an internet sensation that

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the conservative political action conference or cpac was supposed to showcase the best and the brightest of the republican party. instead we were treated to a spectacle that was every bit as colorful as yesterday's st. patrick's day parade in new york city. only without as many silly hats. there was a usual cast of 16 presidential wanna bes. you have jeb bush who showed up apparently just because she was

friend with the organizer because he didn't even participate in straw pal. there was sarah palin, and she was saying, i never know what saich is saying. but what you didn't see at cpac is that republicans are cultivating extreme ideologies are undermining their own case for political matter. and no movement on gay rights, when a same week when a conservative senator rob portman who now says that he's supporting his -- organizers use the random black people because they couldn't find any a real one to put in a hero's race on stage. a trump car was known only for -- attendees and the

african-americanering blamed the blark lady for being true. so i don't believe in gop 2.0, because cpac sshlt synonymous with gop. good luck republicans, if cpac is any guide, you're going to be the same old republican parties th in 2016 as you were in 2012. coming up now, weekends with alex witt. erstand. our financial advice is geared specifically to current and former military members and their families. life brings obstacles. usaa brings retirement advice.

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