morning, she rocks even at 6:00 a.m. >> you know what i learned? still, no matter how hard you try, you know who is up? the great -- >> what time is it? >> it's time for "morning joe." >> luke russert! >> just an hour from now, it's day two of the supreme court on the issue of same-sex marriage. the justices gave some clues on their thinking on tuesday, but are they headed in the direction of making sweeping changes for the whole country. also this morning in arizona, john mccain host a bipartisan group of leading senators of chuck sumer for a tour of the mexican border. can they make headway on a top priority for the second term? plus david petraeus talks publicly for the first time since stepping down.

find out what he had to say about the affair that ended his career. >> from abby road in london, england, march 27th, 2013 and this is "the daily rundown." here's chuck todd. >> chuck todd getting love from across the pond. what a guy. i'm luke russert in for the goatee man. that reading was inspired. with passions on both sides running high, they will run the second day of oral arguments on same-sex marriage. the issue before the high court, the constitutionality of the 17-year-old defense of a marriage act and whether congress can withhold benefits from legally wed gay couples. doma was signed into law by president clinton. an 83-year-old former computer

programmer from new york named edie windsor is the person bringing the case forward. doma barbie irs from recognizing her marriage to another woman. it sent her inheritance tax when her spouse died. >> i couldn't believe they were making a stranger of this person i loved for 43 something years. >> nine states permit same-sex marriage along with washington, d.c. 38 others ban it either by law or constitutional amendment. one of the states is california and yesterday proponents of proposition 8 argued it makes sense to limit marriage because only opposite sex couples can produce children. justice alaina kagan said whether that means they can bar older couples from marrying as well. >> even with respect to couples over the age of 55, it is very

rare that both parties to the couple are infertile. in the traditional -- >> really, if a couple -- i can assure you if both the woman and the man are over the age of 55, there not a lot of children coming out of that marriage. >> arguing against proposition 8, former bush administration solicitor general ted ol who joined with a liberal who treated olsson's argument that gay couples have a constitutional right to marry with skepticism. >> i'm curious. when did it become unconstitutional to exclude homosexual couples from marriage. 1791, 1868 when the 14th amendment was inducted?

>> when did it become unconstitutional to prohibit interracial marriages? >> do you want us to step in and render a decision based on,a se assessments that is newer than cell phones or the internet? >> widely seen as the swing vote, they suggested that children and same-sex marriage suffer immediate legal injury from california's ban, but he also wondered whether the court should have taken up the case in the first place. >> you are really asking particularly because of the sociological evidence you site to go into uncharted waters. i wonder if the case was properly granted. >> nbc news justice correspondent pete williams is live at the supreme court. reflect on what we heard yesterday and where it looks like that case will go. the real question i have is the

doma case, what implications could any ruling on that have to yesterday's case? from b to a. >> not a lot of spill over from today into yesterday. i think the dye is cast for yesterday. the majority of the court is trying to find a way to limit whatever it does to affect only california to somehow dispose of prop 8 and permit same-sex marriage to resume there. without issuing any kind of sweeping ruling on same-sex marriage. today i think even though the court will spend more time on whether the lawyers involved had the legal right to be here, it seems more likely to get a straight up or down vote on whether doma is constitutional. some of the arguments do overlap, but what the house republicans now defending the law will say is that the federal government is a separate entity

of government and has the right to set their own definition of marriage. the other side said the federal governments deferred to the states to define marriage. this is no different. there is overlap on whether it's proper constitutional to make a distinction between same-sex and opposite sex marriage. the proponents of making that distinction say they raise again the fact that only opposite sex couples can produce children and the other side said that's not a legally significant reason and nobody will call off an opposite sex marriage because same-sex couples are getting married. the two cases are different and i think the general feeling is the doma case will produce a definite out come. >> on that point with your knowledge of the court from folks i talked to who support the overturn of doma, they say they have a stronger principal from the justices because of the combination of state's rights

and the constitutionality factor, from your reading of the court, do you have guidance on what you received justices to go and are we looking at kennedy again? it all comes down to kennedy. >> that's pivotal and he wrote the two significant cases in the past. it's different here because you have a group of conservative constitutional scholars who are urging the supreme court to strike down doma on state rights grounds. they have no constitutional warrant to be defining marriage. that's always been something for the states to do. the landscape is different. >> pete williams for the supreme court. we appreciate it. >> former president clinton's transformation on same-sex marriage is a microcosm of the shift in the nation as a whole. in may of 1992 during his first presidential campaign, he gave a

landmark speech on gay rights in west hollywood, california. the first large scale campaign event for gays and lesbians. >> those of you who are here tonight, you represent a community of our nation's gifted people who we have been willing to squander. we can't afford to waste the capacities and the contributions and the hearts and the souls and the minds of the gay and lesbian americans. for every day that we discriminate, that we hate, that we refuse to avail ourselves of the potential of any group of americans, we are all less than we ought to be. >> soon after he became president, clint an's relationship eroded after he signed don't ask don't tell. in the middle of the campaign when the defense of marriage act

was passed, president clinton signed it into law. >> president clinton signed the bill from recognizing same-sex marriage marriages. without fanfare after returning from the campaign trip after midnight, mr. clinton signed the bill. the white house said the president long opposed recognition of homosexual marriages, but hopes the bill won't be used as an excuse to discriminate. >> earlier this month, the former president wrote an op ed call thing doma inc. patable with our constitution and saying it should be overturned. it pits the obama administration against house republicans who are the ones left defending the law. >> in our system of government, the administration doesn't get to decide what's constitutional. the supreme court does. our financing the lawsuit was to make sure that the proper forum

was used to make sure that we know what's constitutional and what isn't. >> nbc's senior editor mark murray is here with today's first read. i think we are fascinated with clinton's shift and how it speaks to the change in the democratic party. i want to put up the quote that claims clinton advocated for a marriage ban. ter kerry, clinton ventured should consider defying democratic interest groups by endorsing the bush proposal with gay marriage. either way, it shows you that even two campaigns ago, this was a central issue that some were saying democrats should go to the right on. now it seems that for any campaign coming up, the argument will be who switched first? the earlier supporter. who is more inclined? >> a lot of people on this

issue. politics always change and successful politics are the ones who change successfully. one thing worth noting is just 30% of the country supported gay marriage and moved 21 percentage points. that's just in nine years. you can look in 2004 and it was a good politics to be against gay marriage. now not. politics president obama has changed and hillary clinton changed. this is evolution for a lot of people. >> he's a master and fascinated how this is setting up president obama. against john boehner. >> this changed too and you did see when the house republicans took up the lawsuit and started to fund it, this was in the spotlight and it was very interesting, the stuff coming out of john boehner's office had to do with the keystone pipeline and issues like president

obama's organizing for action. nothing on these gay rights issues. the silence. >> even the lawyer does not want to talk to the press. immigration in arizona. michael bennett and chuck schumer and john mccain who will look at the border and seems the ball is moving on this to some degree. we are far away from the solution. >> the devil is in the details. we are supposed to get that the week of april 8th. we haven't gotten it yet. the press conference will be in no gals, arizona. i keep hearing they are close, but still nothing and we will have to find out. >> what is border security. senate madness. >> we have a great time. from my state of texas is facing a famous politician from new york state. we have a battle of southern titans in the 20th century.

huey long versus richard russell and strom thurman and ed brooks. this is just not the team to upset, but a very famous 18th century figure. >> sam houston is the only statue that is holding a gun. >> that's texas for you. >> for all your senate madness, go to first read on nbc politics.com. round two at the supreme court. today's case has bigger implications for millions of same-sex couples nationwide. we will break it down next and former cia director david petraeus with the career-ending scandal. here's the politics run down for msnbc.

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>> if the issue is letting the states experiment and letting the society have more time to figure out its direction, why is taking a case now the answer. >> that was justice sotomayor on whether the court has the right to brew on california's ban on same-sex marriage. the defense of marriage act and whether same-sex couples can be treated differently.

we have the adviser for lgbt advisers at the center for american progress. we have to start in terms of yesterday's case. it looks like all signs point it a dig that it couldn't be argued because it would pertain directly to california. >> we have to first keep in mind that this is all more speculative. if we followed the line of questioning last june, the we can't always tell what is in the justice's minds. this is a conservative court and a big step for the justices to

be thes declare the fundamental right. it sounded like they are not ready. >> in terms of today's case which i find interesting, you look at this and it was confusioning to us lay people. today is section three of doma. whether or not the government has the right to withhold the thousands of benefits that come from the actual marriage. in terms of that case especially in the lgbt community, this is more a possibility of moving forward and delivering a huge win. >> political win, but a legal win. a constitutional win. we are talking about whether the federal government can treat one group or class of citizens than the rest. that's a simple question. the answer is no. we hope that the ruling is going

to be known and we can't treat a certain class of citizens different than others. the conversation happening in the court yesterday got into the line of questioning and forced the narrative that lgbt people are a specific group of people in the united states that have been discriminated against. there is a precedent set through the line of questioning that we heard that will help the case we made today. >> two interesting legal arguments. the 14th amendment as well as let the states delegate it and let the states have the ability to do what they want. the federal government should be out. things that one would expect more conservative and liberal justices to agree on. >> that issue plays out in the sense and the state right issue suggests they might want to stay out of it.

it's the opposite effect. >> a clarifying point that is important to know about today and about the conversation around doma, if they strike down doma. marriage equality won't be the law of the land. in all the states that legally recognize smarame-sex marriagesy marriage has to be valid in the federal government's eyes. where i live i'm legally married. >> it's not that mississippi would have to accept a marriage from massachusetts. >> the state of mississippi would have to determine their own marriage guidelines. >> one question that i have which is fascinating as a lay person. what is the real connection from yesterday's case to today's case? there seemed to be overlapping factors. when you read it, you have to understand it.

it's distrust with the overlap. what's the real connection? >> yesterday's case i think is a much harder issue for the court. when the supreme court declares the existence of the fundamental right, that's a huge deal. about as big as it gets for the supreme court. that's a difficult thing for a conservative court to do. that's what the justices were feeling uncomfortable with. they can get their hands around and i think that's the -- they talked about the issues yesterday and they may be able to do more about the issues today. >> the last thing they find fascinating here. we have boehner versus obama. the house gop who spent the $3 million.

politics is not lost here. >> politics is not lost. that's why boehner jumped to spend that $3 million or however much he is spending. he is about sticking it to the president here. we continue to play politics for people's lives. that's what's happening. i told people i had mixed feelings about it. on one hand, it's a privilege to be part of this debate. it's debating and playing politics around my and livelihood. let's hope we can move forward. >> it will be an interesting few months. i'm sure june will make a lot of news. appreciate it. up next on the radar, a historic day for the secret service in which they signed the nation's toughest antiabortion law. david petraeus in his own words about the affair that ended his career. today's trivia question, march madness edition. how many states have five teams in this year's nca amen's

basketball tournament and the total number of electoral votes from those states. we counted the 68 team field. the first person to tweet the correct answer will get an on hair shout out from me.

on our radar, president obama made history yesterday naming julia peerson as the first female director of the secret service in the 148 year history. she began her career as an agent in miami and quickly rose through the ranks. after the last five years, she served as chief of staff to outgoing director mark sullivan who resigned last month. >> david petraeus apologized for

the affair that ended his career. the retired general had been invited to speak at the university of southern california's annual rotc dinner a year ago before the scandal broke out. before delving into his speech, he had this to say. >> so please allow me to begin my remark this is evening by reiterating to you deeply i regret and apologize for the circumstances that led to my resignation from the cia and caused such pain for my family, friends, and supporters. >> the nation's toughest new measures on abortion were signed into law despite protests around the state. one banned abortion as early as six weeks into pregnancy or as soon as a heartbeat can be detected. another banned based on genetic defects. the measure is august 1st and

could spur a supreme court fight down the road. still ahead, the immigration debate heads to the border and a neat segment. hiring our heroes. the nationwide effort to find jobs. "the daily rundown" only on msnbc.

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it comes on the same day john mccain will tour the mexican border in arizona. they tried to craft immigration legislation. let's bring in our wednesday hump day gaggle to talk about this. executive director for the conservative principals and chief of the u.s. office of citizenship for president bush. democratic folster and deputy editor of the report and contributing writer for roll call, nathan gonzalez. thank you all. over here first. i'm always fascinated when they try to reinforce the security. bennett and schumer. what did you think would ultimately be acceptable for republicans in terms of the idea of border security. that seems to be the idea that we don't have the definition. where can we get in a bipartisan

bill that said that the border is truly secure? >> that's a good question. you get the border security and border control. i think it's a control that we are getting there. border security has improved and i don't think at the end, they are going to be the stick issue in the debate. the path to citizenship. the discussions of how to manage a future flow of immigrants. that is key. if you want to address this fully and comprehensively, you may legalize the path to citizenship. the economy needs strong workers from time to time. if you don't have an adequate mechanism, that's the problem. we are having a problem with the union. that's really not willing to negotiate. that's what president obama could put pressure on the unions to support a workable program.

>> you responded to that and do you think that's the issue? is it more of a guest worker program that could upset union folks on the left or is it border security that can upset folks on the right? it's compromise that can come. that's your question. >> or what do you do with the folks here currently. there a lot of details to work out. who would have thought we would have a majority of folks supporting gay marriage and bipartisan support that is not controversial. republicans and democrats are coming together on immigration that seems to be bringing the country together. while there a lot of details to work out, they want to see action and comprehensive reform and don't want to deport and see the workers. >> the abortion laws getting stricker and gay marriage has support and no one would believe it. they want to go to you.

in terms of the reality here for studying the hill and how washington operates. even at the senate bipartisan debate with the plan come april, there is a lot of time left to kill it. the longer it hangs out there, the more shots it takes and things seem -- anything big on capitol hill is behind closed doors. >> i think what this comes down to is speaker boehner's willingness. the sandy relief funding and violence against women act. there some of the republican caucus willing to go for a compromise, but is speaker boehner willing to do that? i wonder if the fallout, there is talk about the republican base and threat of primaries, i wonder if there is that for vent threat on the right for some of these members who can vote for something comprehensive. economic issues might be more

pressing than the immigration issue. >> it seems that there is a lot of cover that they want to take in terms of growing the tax base. it helps big business. if republicans want to jump in, they can do it. they have the cover right now. another system changed when they call and said you know what, republicans should deal with immigration constructivelily. i'm for legalization and the path to citizenship. that will provide cover to a lot of conservatives. republicans are opening up to immigration reform and the path to citizenship, but the guesswork is key. a lot of attention has been paid to what's happening in the senate. the house in the middle of discussions, that process is much more open and good democrats and good republicans considering all sorts of ideas. >> that's where it comes down to

boehner. the house chairman will take time on this. the diesel practically done. all eyes will be on the house. in terms of the president's legacy, this is probably the top right of the second term. >> there a lot of top priorities. you have this and gun laws. that deal. you have taxes and energy and a whole variety of things that i think are key to the president's legacy. this is one and one as i said where republicans seem willing to come to the table. for the history books, this is something they want. for democratic politics, we said we have the white house is quite significant. >> there multiple priorities. that will depend on what history said is a big defining part of his legacy. immigration they want to get it

done with tax fairness and all these other issues. >> our panel will be sticking around. our gaggle, panel. that's it. next, the effort to get america's military veterans gainfully employed. first the white house soup of the day. chicken noodle. set your watch to it. get the low sodium version. better for you. check out our website, run down.msnbc.com. we'll be right back. water, we take our showers with it. we make our coffee with it. but we rarely tap its true potential and just let it be itself. flowing freely into clean lakes, clear streams and along more fresh water coast line than any other state in the country. come realize water's true potential. dive in-to the waters of pure michigan. your trip begins at michigan.org. ♪

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25, the unemployment rate is 20%. there is help. this month marks the second anniversary of the hiring our heroes program, a jobs initiative created by the u.s. chamber of commerce and supported by sumps of nbc and comcast. in two years, more than 1,000 companies hired over 18,000 vets with condominiums of hundreds of thousands more. richard louie is live at a hiring our heroes jobs in new york. there interesting new aps that help veterans find jobs. >> that's right, luke. good day to you. aps are part of the solution here and so far we talked about those looking for jobs and expect over 1,000 people to be here today. trying it get about 100 jobs for veterans here. the new york city transit for instance has about 100 to 200

jobs available. right behind we have humans of thens of jobs available around the world. they get into work society and back into industry. how to translate that military culture that industry culture. they have a digital strategy. this is their resume engine. what you do with a resume engine, you just came back, you can plug in and a sign as an army specialist and enter in your military job description and in this case you are a unit supply specialist. the specialist in military is described as supervising a task involving the general upkeep and maintenance of all equipment. lengthy and detailed. it translates that into industry speak that uses language that is

most commonly used in industry. and extendible supplies and equipment. it translates it and you fill out information and it companies out this resume for you that you can use. lindsay smith has a resume that can be used across various industries. the other major hurdle for those coming back and reintegrating, it is the belief that normally you need to find a job where you live or grew up. what they have done is mapped out the jobs across the country that said you do not need to go to where your family is, but these are the jobs across the country like north dakota and portland, oregon. >> thank you. we should add that this is important for comcast and nbc. we hired over 1,000 veterans and plan on hiring over 1,000 more.

richard lui from new york, we appreciate it. how many states have five teams in this year's ncaa tournament and the total number of electoral votes from the states. the answer is three. california, north carolina and pennsylvania which have a collective 90 electoral votes. that's like throwing spaghetti on a wall. it's a complicated question. congratulations to today's winner for getting it right. if you have a trivia questiony for us, e-mail us and we'll be right back with the gaggle. [ female announcer ] are you sensitive to dairy? then you'll love lactose-free lactaid® it's 100% real milk that's easy to digest

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let's bring back our gaggle. ag alfonso agular. another thing getting a lot of

attention is a new abortion law in north dakota. north dakota bans abortion in a heartbeat based on gender. bans abortion based on genetic defects. the governor said although the likelihood of this measure surviving a court challenge remains in question, fascinating and this is saying okay, we are going to do this to get a supreme court reaction. that could set up and we f we thought the health care law and same-sex marriage was huge, this would be the absolute super bowl of supreme court cases and most likely the next year. >> this is a case where you have state's rights and elections matter and we have been talking about the presidential election, but this is where state legislative elections are better. they can produce legislation that they want.

what's matter. what's interesting about this for the republicans, there's no isolation anymore. what happens in north dakota doesn't stay in north dakota. now it's going to force other republican be leaders, other republican candidates to talk about this issue for months to come because of what they're doing in one legislature in one of 50 states. >> part of the gop autopsy was not to talk about these types of contraception issues. >> this is a mentality of the rovian mentality. those who vote exclusively for this issue vote for candidates who are -- who are pro life. this is a winning issue for republicans. it's an issue that helps energize its base. we didn't lose the election because of life or marriage.

we lost the election because we had a terrible candidate who could not connect with the middle class and who had a terrible position on ill gra immigration. >> there's been a critique of republicans, a convention they call the abortion jamboree. >> you know what i didn't get from that statement is i care about women. that's statement is all about politics. let me tell you how extreme this bill is. you could be trying to get pregnant and not know if you're pregnant at six weeks. you could be buying pregnancy tests in bulk and not know at six weeks. that's how extreme this bill is. it's all about politics. the percentages of americans who say abortion should be illegal in all circumstances which is what that bill would do is about 10%. it's not a winning issue. two-thirds of americans think roe v. wade should be predicted. if it was an issue, would have

mitt romney in the white house now. this is the legislative version of todd akiken. >> not at all. you may have the majority of americans saying, yeah, let's not ban abortion, but that doesn't mean that's the issue that they vote for. those who vote exclusively on the issue of abortion, majority vote for candidates who are pro-livment. >> when you use this language, even if you're not part of that group and that's not your number one issue, if you keep hearing one party saying we're against that, we don't care about those people. those people are not important. this is what we're opposed to. they may be coming for me next. >> what's interesting is in light of what we heard over the last few weeks about this rebranding of the gop, these issues being at the forefront does not give them a lot of cover to put a better face on it as was said they wanted to do

lastly same-sex marriage, huge week for it. i'll go to you. it seems to me that on the democratic side that there's going to be a battle in the primary to see who is on the right side of history first, if hillary clinton gets in there, i don't think there's not going to be a primary, but there seems to be a huge shift to this. >> i think as people have said over the last few days, i don't think there's going to be a major democratic contender who has a different position on same-sex marriage than everybody else in the party. the question is the timeline. i don't know that it will matter three years from now is has we're talking about. one of the things, we sometimes think look at the polling, because younger voters are more likely to be open to same-sex marriage, that's a winning issue for democrats. that's assuming that's the issue that will decide the future elections. there's a wide range of -- >> yeah, there's a lot more.

nevertheless, you think that the gop will have -- will evolve on this issue? i asked ryan pevis this last week, he's 41 years old. by the time he's 50, will the gop still be fighting this fight? what do you think? >> hopefully. again, this is an issue that is important important to our base. if you say the fact we are for traditional marriage doesn't mean we're bigots or homophobic. it just means that we believe that marriage is a -- is an institution by nature. >> last word, quickly? >> three-fourths of americans say 20 years from now most or all states will allow day marriage. so, you know, that's something that republicans need to think about, what side they'll be on. >> shameless plugs? >> i want to welcome to washington to see marian

mariann botego. >> my firm mental analysis has been acquired by purple strategy. >> early happy birthday to my wife. she does so much, but -- >> what a did guy. >> if she wasn't taking care of the kids i couldn't do this show. >> i'll give a shout-out to season two of "the wire." get it on your ipad, great stuff. start with the fist one, season two is wonderful. that's it for this edition of "the daily rundown." peter alexander will be here tomorrow. coming up next, chris jansing and company. we'll have a lot to do on the supreme court and gay marriage.

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