writes, i'm up because i'm working on a business plan for cats of the internet calendar mail franchise. >> sign me up. who here would not want a cat calendar? no one's ever thought of that, right? >> everyone. have a great holiday weekend. see you back here monday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪ >> about 4:00 in the morning i get up. i used to get up at 3:00 because i worked on a 5:30 a.m. show so now i'm sleeping in. the goal for me is to go to bed later than my 5-year-old. it's a real point of pride for me. if i've fallen asleep from a 5-year-old, something has gone terribly wrong in my life. my daughter will say, daddy, can we read another story? no! daddy has to go to bed! >> look at willie geist. it seems like only yesterday that i was making him peanut

butter and jelly sandwiches and sending him out the door. look at him! >> that was yesterday. >> i forgot. >> he is all grown up. look at him. he looks great! >> fantastic. he has a little seacrest thing going on. >> with hair on his chest. >> it's friday, march 29th. with us on the set, national affairs editor for "new york" magazine john heilemann. pulitzer prize winning and historian, "the art of power." john vicker. he is a vicker. >> meacham. >> and julian tet. and josh green. because it's good friday and so much going on in the world i

think we should get into it. whos brackets have been busted the most? in the last few days? >> i'm done. >> how about you, heilemann? what you got going? i got crushed last night. >> it's kind of a wreck, my bracket. i'm still there with ohio state who, i think, is could go all the way. >> i had indiana going all the way, indiana. you know this better than anyone. they lost last night, julian. gene hackman, it didn't work, the hoosiers. i had that movie on one set and the game on the other. they still lost. >> indiana is the country they lost when they lost the empire. there is a state called indiana. >> every since they lost bobby knight, i can't pay attention to indiana any more. without bobby knight, what do they have? >> one has florida gulf coast in the bracket and indiana out of the bracket. >> i think one guy in the country going like that. >> no one could have florida gulf coast unless it's the coast of florida.

>> one guy you care about in the tournament? >> careful. >> louisville? >> i want louisville in the finals because i want louisville to lose in the finals. >> an embarrassing fashion on the big stage. >> yes for coach rick pitino. i will never forgive him for the slight that he issued to red auerbach when pitino took over the celtics years ago. >> you never want to get on the wrong side of mike. he will nurse that grudge for years. >> absolutely. speaking of the brackets we have jay bilas coming up at 6:30. >> cannot wait. that man does everything. >> i was watching him yesterday. he was on with tony and mike. looking at the games that were on last night, i think jay got 3 out of 4 wrong. so we will deal with mr. bilas on that one. we have have news. pope francis seems to have

angered some in the catholic church not moo he by including women in a holy week ritual previously reserved for men. pope francis became the first pope in history to wash the feet of women on holy thursday. the pope visited the juvenile detention center and allowed two female inmates to join ten male inmates in a ceremony where he washed, dried, and kissed their feet in a gesture of humility. vatican spokesman responded to the criticism writing in an e-mail, quote, here, the rite for a small unique community made up also of women and excluding the girls would have been inopportune. the first jesuit as pope. secondly, it's not a tradition, who they are, humility, dealing

with the poor which is the franchise of the catholic church around the world when you look at it. it's hard to believe and i don't know whether this criticism emanates from the old crew in the exactly still there, but it's hard to believe that anyone could be critical of the pope of choosing to include two women inmates. >> jesus washed the feet of both men and women and appalling that anybody could complain about this. >> don't let the facts get in the way us that talking about a theological argument. also of women were the apostles. women discovered the tomb. mary magazidalenazindaleazine d enterprise. on this very day the few who remained with him was his mother mary. so the story, an unfortunate

story in the broad church of really starting in the middle of the first millennium has been trying to write women out of the story and minimize the role and the institution of celibacy. theology had very little to do with them in the year 1000. >> what is the root of celibacy? >> that having hereditary offices was a potential source of corruption and having clerical families added to the world of that world particularly in the medicine tterranean woul create the barrens. if you had a celibate you could not pass down the office down the line. celibacy was not a feature until about the year 1000. >> right. but it is -- i know, josh, you keep up with the holy roman

catholic church on a day-to-day basis. but just on a general scope worldwide scope, looking at the universal church, having less to do with those who are across the street of st. patrick's this morning. dealing with people and feeding people. the sharpness already turned toward this new hope by, i think, a small element within the vatican is really an interesting story. >> it is. but i think the other thing to look at here too is the gesture by francis to kind of reach out, broaden the church, include women, people who haven't traditionally been included. and distinguish himself a little bit from his predecessor and

broaden the appeal around the church. >> we said at the beginning when he was first appointed, he is a transitional pope. if he is going to be a transitional figure there is going to be some dragging and kicking and screaming of the church into the modern age. there are elements of the church that are not going to go easily into the 21st century. >> clearly. >> when you think about it he is one of the oldest and continuous continuously operating institutions. >> i thought you were going to say the oldest, continuous crap game in new york. >> that too. >> it needs to adapt and appeal to new generation, not just in west but in the emerging markets and developing world too and that is critical and frankly little gestures of washing the feet of women about time it happened. we should all be celebrating it. >> absolutely. i agree with you. turning now to north korea from the papacy. that is a hard right turn.

make sure the car doesn't go off the road. near is stepping up its posture against the united states and country put rocket units on stand-by say they are ready to fire in the south pacific. kim ju deployed from a base in missouri, they practiced dropping bombs on a south korean range. chuck hagel says the pentagon is not taking the regime's threats lightly. >> is north korea more dangerous today? i think there are very provocative actions and belligerent tone has ratcheted up the danger. and we have to understand that

relate. >> on tuesday, kim pyongyang relieved a propaganda video earlier this month showing the u.s. capital' white house under attack. this is like a cartoon. they can't get their rocket 15 feet off the ground. >> one of the important things is the assumption is in military and intelligence cycles is one of the reasons this is happening is that actually north korean leader is under a threat and he has to prove to his own people he is a strong man. if that is the case in some ways that is encouraging for people waiting for years tos regime change in north korea but at the same time a recipe for a lot more instability. frankly as long as china is giving its support to north korea you have the makings of a

nasty mess if flonorth korea wi have a mess coming up. >> people will become hungrier than they are. the void of food in that country. isn't that the great fear? >> that is the great sense. the sense that it becomes ever more of an irrational actor. most states, you can figure we will act at least in existential interests, given the internal situation, given potential insecurities with the new chief and the regime, suddenly they may not be even by their standards rational and that becomes a recipe for instability. >> one of the other things is if you look at the map across that part of the world right now, there are a host of simmering conflicts. it's not just north and south korea. you have increasing tension between china and japan, between japan and korea. a lot of nasty things could come

to the bubble at some point which, frankly people should be worried about right now. >> all i know i hear the phrase regime change, you know, i just want to put the pillow over my head and stop thinking about things. >> when i was at the atlantic a couple years ago did a journalistic exercise and had generals and war game what that would look like and it wasn't pretty for anybody, including the u.s. >> what happened in the war games? what was the result? we won, right? i think it was ugly. it wasn't something you want to test in the real world was the takeaway i remember. >> oh, man. i don't know. let's go to south africa now. you want to go there? >> if you want to be cheerful! >> just call me rand mcnally. >> that's right! >> a regime change and reconciliation that works! >> this is very lowell thomas. the march of time!

>> you want me to do it with a straight face? >> go ahead. >> former south african nelson mandela, the former south african president nelson mandela. this is the news hour. >> it's friday! >> he has had health problems in the past but his latest hospitalization was unplanned and that sparked real concern about his condition. officials are monitoring the 94-year-old who is suffering are a lung infection and linked to the tuberculosis he conducted more than two decades in prison. the report from south africa. >> reporter: nelson mandela set to be responding to treatment. >> nelson mandela's health. >> pray for mandela. >> reporter: the news quickly spread around the world. nelson mandela rushed to the hospital, the third hospitalization in four months but this time officials were not calling it scheduled or routine. >> former president nelson

mandela is responding positively to the treatment he is receiving for recurring lung infection. >> reporter: photographed with his great grandson last month, man tell la looked healthy but he is 94 now and increasingly frail and relatively seen in public. south african president spoke of mandela's health saying we appeal to the people of south africa and the world to pray for our beloved nelson and keep them in their thoughts and many did pray. seen the bloodiest moments. the system of apartheid that mandela spent 27 years in prison resisting before he finally prevailed. >> you're asking god to let him live longer. >> i wish him speedy recovery and we love him so much. >> reporter: president obama meeting with african leaders at

the white house. >> he is a hero to all of us. i'm sure i speak for other leaders here. and, you know, we will be keeping him in our thoughts and prayers and his entire family. >> reporter: south africa is a young country and most people here have no memory of mandela's years in captivity. the so-called born-free generation but he remains an icon iconic towering figure. >> 27 years in jail for an idea of quality of freedom. >> absolutely. >> incredible. >> ts an amazing thing. it's almost 20 years now since he came out of prison. you remember when it happened in 1994 and south africa was so -- the change was so dramatic. and he is now this guy there is no more beloved figure, i think, in the entire world than mandela from a political prisoner to president of the country to almost like a secular saint at this point. astonishing life. >> here is the amazing thing

about mandela and why he is such a path of symbol that everyone should be studying now. not only did he survive in prison, not only did he come out and embark on extraordinary mission of reconciliation without a lot of hostility and grievance but he also served one term and then left. >> yeah. >> that is practically unheard of in africa where usually people get into power and cling onto it at all costs. to basically have that life essentially in prison and then seek reconciliation and then bow out with such grace is fantastic. if only more leaders could look at his track record today when frankly the world desperately needs the leadership and reconciliation would be in a much better place. >> john, i'm troubled now. perhaps you can help me between listening to julian and that report. we were doing the news hour but i'm thinking maybe we should be like bbc? >> it's getting there. let's here about cypriots.

>> what is wrong with the bbc? >> we love the bbc. >> speak for yourself. >> john lewis is i think the american equivalent, a man who bears this physical scars of martyrdom. he could have died in the streets of selma, in birmingham, montgomery. that generation, to link the news hour briefly, that actually took principles that are so often articulated and talked about in religious and political circles, vir ttues of sacrifice and we give a lot of lip service to and a handful. people put their lives on the line. nelson mandela and john lewis and those are the people we should study and think about. >> particularly on good friday. what a symbol of sacrifice and humility.

>> the king and queen of segways! i mean they looped everything right in there. john lewis, mandela, south africa, good friday. >> i sort of feel like we are done for the day. >> college basketball now! >> we will see you next week. >> everything except for the brackets. sacrifice loss. jay bilas is coming up to talk about our busted brackets. the great jay bilsa will join us to break down the march madness action and andrew ross sorkin will be here and state department correspondent for the bbc, kim ghattas. >> who we love. >> speak for yourself. >> should republicans be happy with their strategy to counter president obama so far in his second term? john boehner thinks so. his memo to house republicans is next in the political playbook. first, again, contractual obligation even on good friday, we have to put this guy on. he has given a miserable, miserable last month of weather, but try again. bill? bill karins, go ahead. >> you guys have inspired me to shave my head and put glasses on

this morning. >> will there be darkness at 3:00? >> getting better. >> no. it is getting better. slowly, slowly better. as far as the temperatures go, we are watching them going up ever so slowly on the eastern seaboard. today is a lot better than yesterday morning and down in areas of florida and atlanta. miami at 62. it feels like miami once again. the travel trouble as you go throughout this good friday southern missouri into the ozarks and western kentucky. as we look towards your friday afternoon, rain likely. possibility around tulsa. little rock. ft. smith, arkansas, into the memphis area, a few scattered showers in new england and most of the day dry and better than we saw yesterday afternoon. in the west coast looks fine. holiday weekend, the storm in the middle of the country gains a little bit of strength and a little bit of moisture so a rainy saturday likely. st. louis up to chicago, minneapolis, madison, milwaukee, and then further to the south. this all has to head east so if you're on the eastern seaboard, saturday looks like the better of your two weekend days.

sunday is going to see the rain moving in. especially as we go through the mid-atlantic in the morning. i think it's going to be a rainy morning from d.c. through west virginia and virginia. showery weather in the southeast. in new england looks like the rain will be primarily from the afternoon into the evening hours and more for the easter dinner plans. i think you may get away with the easter egg hunts early in the morning as we go throughout new england. a close call but i think we will give you a break there from a rainy day. washington, d.c., your bottom line is nice day today and tomorrow. rainy on sunday. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. ♪

♪ your finances can't manage themselves, but that doesn't mean they won't try.

bring all your finances together with the help of the one person who can, a certified financial planner professional. cfp -- let's make a plan. no papers. you know, as a special treat for our little boys and girls around here, we had an easter egg hunt earlier this morning before you people came out. i found a couple. >> mine looks like a basketball. >> hold on.

i'll open up mine. i got a little milky way thing. a fortune cookie inside too. it basically says something i cannot read on the air. >> i'll read it. >> no, you can't read it! you can't read it or we would be off air! i mean, it's an obscene note to me from johnny and joe. they, obviously, hate me! >> you can take the profanity out. >> what did you get for candy? >> a little twix bar. you can have it. sm knit ties are so not back in! maybe it's from josh. >> that was meant for me. >> this is a beauty! >> i've been known to wear knit ties myself but today you're the brunt of that note. >> my note said don't pick indiana in your final four bracket. >> thank you, josh. i think that was meant for me because i had a knit tie on the other day but it was one i got

from broderick crawford in 1942. >> for like your 40th birthday? >> you can go now. because you know who we have now to replace you and talking sensely about politics? our old friend mike allen down there in washington for politico. >> blessed good friday to you and the vicker! >> ah! listen, john boehner, in between smoking a pack of cigarettes and a glass of merlot wine is hailing the gop efforts to stop president obama's agenda and he writes in part i retreat in williamsburg house wps came together as a team. we listened to each other and adopted a new strategy for the coming year has put the republicans on offense and democrats on defense. mike, what does this mean? that some of them are going to act like they are not mentally ill or what? >> i would not leap to conclusions! yeah, this is a self-high five

that the speaker sent out yesterday at a time when the members are at home on break. they will be out another week about this. he is, a, trying to bring the team together and say they had a strategy and was successful. and he makes the point in here that they decided at the williamsburg retreat their tactical decision as he calls it to emphasize sequester and to not have a threat of a government shutdown, do not have a threat over the next debt ceiling. so we don't have a countdown clock to -- when the government money would have run out, which is just a couple of days ago. but the president looked like he had to win at the end -- at the end of their last negotiation. so this memo does nothing to say about what they are going to do in the days ahead even though he says what happens in the days ahead are very important. >> josh and jon. josh first. what happens if you're a semi

moderate, reasonably sensible party in that caucus? what happens? >> you switch parties. >> a good answer. yeah? >> look. it's tough. i think boehner is right to crow a little bit. they have prevented obama from getting more tax revenue but they have any' done much to broaden the appeal to the party and haven't gotten the entitlement reform and shrunk government the way they wanted to and i think still a challenge but they have converted the debt ceiling default that was a real possibility a couple of months ago. >> do you think we are playing stump the band? >> i just think to josh's point, there is a big project going on right now that is about how does the republican party regain the capacity to be competitive at the national level. if the republican party continues along the path, it is this house majority they could hold that house majority a long time and it's a plausible

strategy given the way they are worked and the way districts are across the country. in terms of retaking control of the senate and in terms of winning the white house none of this addresses any of those problems and the notion that this is anything but. it's not pure victories but small tactical incremental victories that don't go to the larger project at hand for the republican party. >> can i ask the reverend mike allen i think is the only person at the table who has performed weddings while sober. >> really? really? >> yeah. you i know have done it in other ways. >> yeah. >> mike, in all of the rethinking and the reports and the conversation about republican leadership conference and all of that, where is boehner in that conversation? does he share this idea that there has to be a fundamental rethinking? >> no. we can see from this memo that that is the case. this is part of the mars and venus issue between him and the president. because we are told by people who are in the room that when he sits down with the president and the president either body language or, in some cases,

words, convey the message, i won, boehner says i won too. that's why we're here. now, as the government looks more and more disfunctional the speaker likes to remind people he is half of one-third of the government in this memo. he refers to himself, to republicans as a minority part of the government. but the table is right. this is going to be -- there is going to be a durable house majority here and it's likely to be speaker boehner for some years. >> mike allen from all of us here at 30 rock to all of you there at politico, have a nice easter. >> to you dotoo. i wish you a message inside your easter egg that you can read on the air. >> yeah, good luck. that's not going happen. >> not with this crew around here. up next, espn college basketball analyst, the great jay bilas joins us for a complete recap of yesterday's action in the sweet 16 when "morning joe" comes right back. we are going to have to talk to

jay -- i saw you with tony and mike yesterday, jay. i think you are batting .500 but we will talk when we come back. we will be right back. can acne cleansers be tough on breakouts

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♪ our staff, our players totally understand, you know?

how good they are. we have had a chance to follow them. >> my thoughts are we have an extremely challenging game on friday night against one of the best teams in the country. we know what is in store for us so try to play as hard as we can and see what happens. >> well, florida coach bill donovan and andy enfield for g. gulf coast. according to our next coast will probably be coach k against tom izzo, michigan state against duke. joining us now from worldwide headquarters, from the leader, espn college basketball analyst jay bilas. the author of book "toughness developing two strengths on and off the court." jay, always a pleasure to hear you and see you. i'm sitting there intently yesterday afternoon. tony and mike have you on, the worldwide leader. let's review. syracuse last night was playing indiana. jay is my guy! you picked indiana, right? >> i did.

i had indiana going to the final four. >> di too. what happened? what happened? >> they did not handle syracuse zone defense very well. i'll tell you, mike, one of the things that comes out of that game that is reaffirmed every time syracuse plays for me is how smart jim boeheim is. >> yeah. >> the entire week of preparation, indiana had to spend preparing for syracuse's zone. you play man-to-man, syracuse would have been spending their entire week preparing for indiana's man-to-man offense and all of the set plays and actions that they run. and what boeheim does so well his defense is really good. forced 18 turnovers and blocked 11 shots and they are long and athletic. playing that defense and the other guy that plays it is rick take piano. i don't know a coincidence that two of the guys that employ that primary defense they do so well and flips the script on preparation. i do think that indiana had a hard time handling it. they don't see it very often.

in one and out scenario, that defense won. >> i was amazed talking about preparation and coaching last night and i'm certainly not well-schooled in college or pro basketball. although i like watching the games but nowhere near you, obviously. i was impressed last night with the preparation marquette's preparation. the defense last night and the importance of like keeping guys five feet or three feet away from where they normally shoot in that game. they couldn't get in to shoot and, as a result, we saw the result. >> marquette is a really together team and i think that is an astute point. one of the things that buzz williams does. he was an assistant to tom crean, the indiana coach, when he was at marquette. one of the things they do really well is operate under stress. they stay very connected and together. that comes from their practice habits. the marquette practices are high inte intensity and high stressed. i think that is when your habits show up is under stress.

and when they are under stress in a game, they operate as a cohesive unit. one of the things that they do really effectively they get what they call paint touches whether by the pass or by the dribble they get the ball into the paint. buzz williams kind of like rainman in that regard. they count these things. they want to get -- they have a goal of 49 paint touches her game. on possessions where they touch the paint, where the ball gets into the paint, they chart it and they shoot 59%. when they don't, it's 31%. they got it into the paint quite a bit. they were really phenomenal against miami and they scored in the paint. they had the most points in the paint that miami has given up all year long. >> jay, i want to to do a preview tonight. a couple of games have potential cinderella stories about big underdogs in the game tonight g./fgcu game and louisville and oregon game.

any chance the underdog slighting down the mighty goliath? >> i think there is. if i knew who would win these games, i wouldn't be in basketball but sitting in vegas by the pool with an umbrella drink. we don't know who is going to win but you got an idea of sort of the things that are going to happen and decide the game. florida gulf coast is on a real high right now. they play a wide open style. they are having fun! this has been a year where we have kind of complained a little bit that the game has been overcoached that there is so much using the clock and possession by possession games. they don't play that way. they play a disciplined style but it is wide open. they are smiling and having a good time. the one thing you have concern about, though, they have gone home and had parades and media coverage that they haven't had in their careers and how does that affect them? do they have the same edge going into this game? florida is the only team in the country that is in the top five in both offensive and defensive efficiency. they are the better team. i think florida is going to be able to take them out of transition so you favor film in that ball game.

so i do think florida is going to win the game. >> jay, would florida gulf coast win tonight be the biggest upset in the history of the tournament? >> i don't know it would be the biggest in the history of the tournament but it would be up there. this is the first 15 seed as you guys know that has ever made it through to the sweet 16. only been seven until this year that have won a game. and nobody until fgcu have won a second game. it's historic as we speak. if they were to win another game, it would put it in the all-time cinderella category and i think push it beyond like a vcu and into like the george mason area. >> hey, jay, given your knowledge of the game and your respect for the game, what will go through your mind tonight? what are your feelings when you see these two iconic coaches, your guy, coach k, against tom izzo tonight? >> you know, mike, i would have loved to have played for izzo. he probably wouldn't have

recruited me but i would have loved to played for him. they are very similar. krzyzewski and izzo are very similar. they are similar in the trust they build with their teams and similar in the fact they are incredible self-evaluators and never let anything slide and they correct everything and their teams, they trust enough in their coaches that they can hear the tough things and they can say tough things to each other. but i think in this game -- these teams match up really well individually at each spot. michigan state a kid gameday gary harris was a football in high school and scored 33 touchdowns. he'll probably wind up guarding seth curry i think duke's player the last month and match up that 4 spot and ryan kelly is stretch 4 and shoots a lot of threes at 6'10" and matched up with adrian payne really well. this could come down to rebounding and where michigan state has an edge. i think if duke competes on the backboards, we are going to see a great game. if they don't, i think michigan state is going to win. >> that sense of toughness and

honesty with the players is what i try to do here around the table when i'm running "morning joe." you know that. >> that's a coaching challenge that not many have. >> i know. the book is "toughness" by jay bilsa. developing true strength on and off the court. jay, thanks as always. appreciate it. >> thank you. up next, the must read opinion pages, including one from josh. fresh off the presses on why republicans won't flip on gay marriage. keep it right here on "morning joe." morning, brian!

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world. josh, how are you? you talked with president obama's former campaign manager for your piece in bloomberg "business week." you write in the old days republicans always wanted especially in red states, to fight about gays and guns, right? now they are on the wrong side on both of those issues and are having problems. but messina didn't believe these problems tend to flip for support for gay marriage, at least not for 2016 gop hopefuls and diverge from those of other americans. the change will force an accommodation, he predicts but one that stops short of endorsing marriage equality. i think you will see people talk less about it but i don't think they are showing any signs of moderating. >> there is probably nobody -- maybe in america, with a more throw going granular knowledge of the american electorate than

messina. he stopped by bloomberg this week to talk about politics generally and got him on the subject of gay marriage which is, obviously, this week's big story. what was interesting was the effect he said it had on the two parties. he thought that in '08 was really a campaign about social issues. it had basically been a net neutral for democrats and obama but this election it had been a clear advantage. we turn to the question this week every democrat who hasn't already flipped is flipping toward support of gay marriage and seem to be sprouting like tulips. the big question for me was how does the republican party deal with this issue of public opinion shifting as rapidly as it is. messina is a democrat not a republican and did not think they would be able to accommodate this change before 2016 that you will not see a gay pro republican be next time in the primary.

>> do you think the republican candidates for president in 2016 their favorite movie is "no country for old men"? the generational shift here, i mean, the republicans have children as well as democrats. if you talk to anyone under the age of 30 or 25, what are you talking about? why are you making a big deal of this? >> i think take the federalism out and say leave it to the states. >> they will try. they will try. >> that is the most plausible. they are not going to make a fundamental shift that the country is making. >> there is this thing. you know? the republican party and josh poise out jim messina has a lot. what the republicans don't understand what goes on in the republicans party as democrats don't understand what is going on in the democratic party, you've seen this in the past in the republican party where you've gotten to the point the party is having a fundamental fissure. you have shirts and skins and a

big chunk of the republican electorate for whom candidates continue to oppose gay marriage will continue to be popular but i think some other chunk of the party that will get on this train and what we don't know is in the -- over the course of these next three years, which of those parts of the party emerges as being dominant because i think there will be a handful of republican nominee and republican candidates in 2016 who decide the only way to go is we have to modernize this party and one of the ways to do it. >> what i find fascinating is the speed of shift in social attitudes and the core of the republican party's political problem now is how quickly they are essentially spinning out from the rest of the population. and if you can pare the shift in social attitude to the shift towards rachel equality a few decades ago, this change really has occurred very fast. >> messina brought numbers to back up your point saying 60% of

americans support gay marriage today and the problem for the party in a nutshell. >> you'll notice one of the most interesting things that happened in the last campaign was when barack obama decided to come out in favor of gay marriage something the white house struggled a long time when he did it the republican response to it was almost nothing. mitt romney did not hammer the issue. it was not an issue that the republican party seized on. they backed away so some signs they recognized the issue is not -- >> the comparison he drew which is important to remember is the issue of immigration. clear to republican strategists this cycle would hurt them and did not stop the candidates from kind of self-emulating on that topic. same thing could be true with gay marriage in 2016. >> it's worth noting this is a sign, to some extent, of the evangelical movement realizing politics is not the means by which they achieve their desired ends. this is a movement that put

enormous amount of faith in ronald reagan in 1980 and for the last 25 years, and realized now the two central claims of the movement which was a school prayer amendment to the constitution and anti-abortion amendment to the constitution have never come to pass and never will. i think to some extent they realize their work in this is going to have to be actually religious and cultural and not political. >> it's important to point out what you said, the speed, the acceleration of the acceptance of the movement and everything like that for public people, for elected officials who have been way behind a whole generation of people who accepted it months and years ago. they finally caught up to the flow. speaking of catch up to the flow. what is this all about? the world's largest hand-held cellular phone? >> this is basically looking at samsung which has become the world's biggest phone maker. >> is that a samsung phone?

>> this is my samsung galaxy phone that outsells the iphone. sam went to south korea and wrote a story how it was. >> how big is that phone? have you to have two hands to hold it. >> they are big but the new one coming out next month is bigger than this one. it's weird. >> what does it do that my i iphone doesn't do? >> it has 4g. by the way, i don't have an endorsement deal. >> what do you do with it? are they not on the cover but a big advertiser? >> no! >> i'm not sure they are. >> look at this. >> it is remarkable how big the company has become. they produced 400 million phones last year. that is 1 every 12 seconds. i memorized that. >> do both make calls? >> you should have actually put a picture of apple with someone taking a big bite out of apple. what fascinating is samsung the challenge it's posing to apple. apple has launched sony in many areas which is an extraordinary story but what happens next to

apple really is a big question that many americans would care about a lot. >> what is fascinating also about samsung as a business strategy you've heard of too big to fail. they are essentially too big to compete with a lot of other companies so they can go into the phone markets and challenge iphone the way no other company can. >> can you play fantasy baseball on this phone? >> i can even watch it. give awe tutorial after the show. >> we had bob bowman on the day from mlb.com. >> we will have a phoneoff after the show. >> you're on! okay. that is going to happen! >> i'd like to know what kind of chemical you have to take to watch fantasy baseball on your phone. >> i don't want to hear you talk about chemicals. josh, thanks very much. on monday's show, opening day. we will be joined by the best in the business. major league baseball analyst peter gammons will be here. "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪ there's nothing like

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♪ we thought it would be fun to play a little game called easter bunny's lap or vaccination. you have to guess when the child is visiting the easter bunny or getting vaccination. what is it? easter bunny? no. vaccination. easter bunny or vaccination?

it is an easter bunny. easter bunny or vaccinate? easter bunny, it is! one more. easter bunny or vaccinate. evacuati vaccinate? let's find out. it is both. >> that's not bad. >> there is a shot. >> eddie:. >> that's a nice shot. >> welcome back to "morning joe." john heilemann and jon meacham and juvenilian tete is still wi us. >> he wants to know where is that shot? >> that is meachem's house down in -- no, that is the white

house! >> meacham set. >> also joining us is richard hause and eugene robinson. give me two or three. i'm losing my breath just describing who you are! we had an easter egg hunt going on here today. i just got another easter egg and another snickers bar. soda equals death! >> the mayor left that? >> give me one of those. >> i think this was mika's. open up a blue one. >> i have one here. >> julian has one. what does yours say? >> that's great. >> can you say it? >> i can say it definitely. white smoke equals one week of barnicle! >> here is the ultimate booby prize. >> what is that one? >> you won one week of hosting "way too early." >> congratulations! >> we could all be on "the

tonight show. >>." i don't get an egg? >> here. open one. >> will we show any more of willie on "the tonight show" last night? >> yes, we are. >> totally television. >> watch out. bill karins is a, quote/unquote, meteorologist! >> ow! >> that's a news story right there! whoa! >> the crew is vicious today! before we get to terrible things constantly in the world happen. syria things getting even tense and worse by the day over there. you pointed out accurately 15 years ago today, good friday, i was in belfast. the northern ireland agreements, the good friday accords were signed. the significance and impact of that when you looked troubled places around the world now. the middle east or wherever. it was a historical achievement. >> what it was was a power

sharing green ligagreement insi north and between the north and britain and all of northern ireland and britain and northern ireland and ireland. it basically set out the thee axes. it's one of the few places you can point to you in the world where there is a culture of compromise, where people have actually come together to make something work and your point you go to people in the midwest, you go to people in other places of the world. you say, hey, it's possible. a lot of credit to be spread around. it's really an impressive accomplishment. >> i grew up in london as a child with constant bomb attacks from the i.r.s. th -- i.r.a. it is remarkable with this deal done and on good friday as richard said it has actually endured. >> the other aspect you stated.

the years of work by pat moynahan and ted kennedy and tip o'neill and former president clinton years and years of hard work and negotiation into that accord. >> an amazing thing, you know? i mean, it doesn't seem that long ago that we had controversy over whether body sands could come to united states and galaxy. it's now a settled piece of history that has worked out really well. >> richard, what were the conditions that helped lead to this? >> really good question because there is something to learn from it really two things. one the british military presence. what it basically told the people in the provisual i.r.a. you can't shoot your way to power and never get what you want through the force of violence, one thing. secondly because of the britts and the government of ireland there is a political path and you can get some of what you want. basically closed one door and

partially opened up another door. more than 3,000 people lost their lives and an exhaustion. that was the context. you closed off the military route and opened up a diplomatic route. it took the moderates on both sides to negotiated the agreement but the radicals coming inside the tent to implement the agreement. it was phased on both sides and also the nationals so it was phased in a way that turned out to have been truly quite intricate work. i was george mitchell's successor and able to build on it and work on it for three years and to me it actually shows things can work but it took an awful lot of time and extraordinary cooperation as you said. it also took americans across the aisle. what the i.r.a. had to learn, the provisual i.r.a. they couldn't do an end run and couldn't go to the ted kennedys and others.

america had zero tolerance and forced people to come to the negotiating table and a lot of credit goes around. >> but the changes have been enormous as you pointed out. when i first began going to northern ireland in the early '70s, mid-70s, the train from dublin to belfast would stop and the british army would get on. belfast was an enclosed city and just entirely different. >> after the deal was signed, the economy and the economic got better partly because the british government spent heavily but the irish economy itself boomed on the back of the european union. unfortunately the one lesson we have learned the last few decade much easier to get a good outcome when the economy is improving. >> you have to show that peace making pays. the guys making risk for peace have to point to not an end of violence. you have to show every day people get up your lives are getting better. if you can do some of other that

other part of the world i think you'll have a chance of moving the ball like in the middle east. >> syria, mortar shells fell in a calf tier eier -- conversatio tier -- cafeteria yesterday from damascus university. it's so bleak and it's been going on. not for a long time historically speaking. is there any hope? do you see a glimmer of hope for anything happening in syria the next few months? >> the answer is no. if you're fortunate to get rid of assad bashar, you will have more than a thousand militias and gangs of one sort or the other on the anti-government side and this is going to continue. if we're lucky only for months

and iff we're unlucky, for year. you've sewn the seeds of long sectarian violence. 70,000 people died up to now. the day will come in assad is gone and move to the next chapter. no positive stories about this. >> gene, one of the -- >> thank you. >> happy easter to all! >> that's an honest question. i gave an honest answer. i apologize. >> it is depressing. gene, one of the elements of depression built into this story and it happens on occasions and incidents like this around the world s that the war spreads and it inevidently spreads across borders and now in iraq and israel and the entire region is a fuse we can hear and see burke. >> the problem with syria why it's so much more dangerous than, say, the situation in libya where you didn't have

neighbors, you know, turkey, israel. at the heart of the middle east that the heart of the arab world. this is a hugely complicated and depressing situation. largely because the alowhites on the assad pro side on that set believe they are fighting for survival. they have no reason to hope frankly that if they lose they will be treated well in a new syria as they look across at the other side. it's a battle of desperation. i guess if there is any one fairly good sign, this new reconciliation between turkey and israel following the turkish policy -- consuexcuse me the po to the turks they are back again now and ruffoughly on the same

page. it can't hurt but not help the situation very much. >> one of the messy signs in syria is the lead to the syrian opposition has indicated he doesn't want the job because he knows how impossible it is it to unite the thousands of groups of which evans talking about. it's not just the americans who are at a loss to know what to do right now, it's the european leaders who are completely stumped how they can actually respond. just having all kinds of destabilizing impacts. one small example is that the russians, as a result of the syrian problems, are essentially losing one of their key bases in the mediciterranean group and w they care on so deeply what is happening in syria right now. >> what are you doing sneezing during an important segment? >> i apologize. i'm allergic to such good news. >> mika just wants to say god

bless you. >> i have something that, to me at least, is equally disturbing on a domestic stage as opposed to the international stage and that is the fact that many members of congress, the house and the senate, remain so far behind public opinion in terms of dealing with the issue of violence and handguns in this country. yesterday, president obama speaking more emotionally than he has, i think, since last december after the newtown event occurred. he gave an impassion plea for the nation's lawmakers to remember the tragedy in newtown. take a listen. >> the notion that two months or three months after something as horrific as what happened in newtown happens and we have moved on to other things? that's not who we are. less than a hundred days ago, that happened. and the entire country was shocked.

the entire country pledged we would do something about it and this time would be different. shame on us if we have forgotten! there are some powerful voices on the other side that are interested in running out the clock or changing the subject or drowning out the majority of the american people to prevent any of these reforms from happening at all. they are doing everything they can to make all of our progress collapse under the weight of fear and frustration, or their assumption is that people will just forget about it. >> gene, yesterday, at some point yesterday, someone on behalf of the nra tweeted something to the effect that the president's speech yesterday, his remarks yesterday -- do we have it here? >> the economy is weak. national debt is mounting. too many americans are out of work. but obama campaigns against guns to please the fringe. >> the fringe. the fringe. the fringe.

>> right. the 80% to 90% of americans who support comprehensive background checks. this is just ridiculous. this is -- and tragic, frankly. i wrote about this in today's column and just -- >> who do you write for again? >> huh? >> you write for "the washington post"? you're in the paper today. >> i do write for "the washington post." i manage to squeeze that in a couple times a week. in the column i quoted the president. and the only way to end it was just to shay amen. shame on us if we have forgotten what happened. it's just astounding to me the nra can still maintain this attitude with perhaps success. >> what it tells you it's one of the laws of american politics. you pointed to the fact that american public opinion has shifted on this issue and a majority or whatever may want to see some controls but majorities in american politics don't have focus. even though groups like the nra

may represent a significant minority is all it takes they are willing to work 24/7 and put all of rare sources and money on issue after issue after issue and generally inclined majorities don't care the day in politics. always the focussed minorities make this the single issue on which their political behavior will rise and fall and why the politics are where they are. >> let me expand on that and take it back to gene. a reason for that. the focus minorities have are strategies in addition to having money and political clout. gene, my question to you is we have said this three straight months. 85%, 90% of americans favor background checks and looks like backed checks are imperiled. where is the strategy behind the white house expressions of strategy. >> it's all over the map.

it seems to me the white house has one item. harry reid and the senate have another idea. mayor mike bloomberg has his own idea how to go about it. if they would get together and form some sort of a comprehensive unified strategy and, you know, there are people who care intensely about this and feel this is the moment to do something that should have been done a long time ago. i think can you make a pressure group out of that. you can counter the nra to at least to some extent, and you got mike bloomberg's money to do it with. >> the vicker? >> yes, sir. >> serious question. what would jefferson think about all of this, that we vote to send people to washington to represent us and many of them go to washington and end up representing only small slices of powerful people, powerful lobbies, whether it's the tax code, whether it's gun legislation, no matter what it

is. the voice of the people, the feelings of the people are relegated to the back of the bus. what would jefferson think? >> right. this is the some of the unintended consequences or the necessary evil madison would argue of the system he created. madison created in checks and balance. >> factions. >> factions. he worried about -- founders worried about majorities running away with everything so they built a system that would prevent a majority from running away with things. one could argue that we overcorrected and that it became too diffuse for a majority to have the will of work. that is madison in the 1787, guys. jefferson actually believed in the will of an enlightened majority and said, particularly -- not that this is applicable to guns, that asking a country to live with the constitution it had when it was created was like asking a man to wear a boy's coat, that you have

to use reason, you have to use data and actually reengage with fundamental questions. jefferson wanted to throw everything out every 21 years and start anew because he thought the world was moving so fast. >> i will say if this -- if an issue with 85% populace support cannot get a bill passed people will blame the nra and they should but people should also blame the people in favor of this legislation. if democrats on the hill and in the white house can't get together a legislative strategy to get the support it is their failure as much as the nra's obstructionism. >> gene robinson and richard haass, please stay with us. up next, school is out for spring break and that means andrew ross sorkin is able to join us because he doesn't have a backpack. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. ♪ 25 miles from home girl my feet are hurting ♪

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any parenting tips? >> parenting tips?

yeah, i would say a couple of things. kanye has to decide early on whether or not he is a baby bjorn guy. the minute you put that on there is no turning back. like a minivan you lose a little piece of yourself and he has to find a place for the jesus piece to go on the other side. we use local law enforcement to help in the discipline of our children. >> how does that work? >> the cops know us by now. when we come in, one of the nice officers comes out from behind. we say, officer, i hate to bring this up. i know you are busy and bigger fish to fry but george didn't eat his vegetables tonight. the new york police, god bless them, they play along. george who idolizes the police and looks up at this guy, the cop says, george, you have to eat your vegetables. what are you doing, buddy? you have to eat your vegetables. george, you can't hit your sister. you understand, george? they have the uniform and the he

back pedals out of there. >> he is not bad. >> what do you mean he is not bad? >> he wrote the jokes himself. >> here is the deer. andrew sorkin is here because school is out today. i told him, willie, cops and kids. go right to cops and kids with jay and he did and it worked. >> he was perfect and he is funny guy. he is the guy that found that crazy picture that you guys love to show with that hat. >> how long did you wait for the school bus that day? >> that was a long day! that was in davos two years ago. i wasn't technically supposed to be on tv. he saw it fed through a commercial break and just decided to embarrass me. >> davos is next to glen cove in long island? >> not far. >> we should caption that picture and call it the yasnook of new york. >> i like that. we are glad you're here. i want you and julian to talk about something on my mind for

many, many months. came off the top of my meager mind yesterday. the standard and poor's record highs. but still thousands of people without work and millions of people filled with angst with their detail economy. there are two economies. >> there are. two economies in america and the headline we just had on the screen from the "wall street journal" says it all best. it's not the sgarvel thgamble g the market has very little to do i would argue with the underlying fundamentals of the economy that the people actually feel. the folks watching this show when you talk about 7.7% unemployment. what is happening they are gambling on something, there it is a show of faith in the fed is what the gamble is about. it's not saying look. the economy is getting better but it is on the margin. i don't want to suggest it's not. >> what are the margins? >> i think profits are up.

i think you're seeing it -- if you're investing ins you' corpos it's getting better. if you see the s&p 500 at its highest level you say what gives? neighbors on both sides don't have jobs and maybe i don't either. that is the issue. my greatest worry about what is happening right now is all of the pressure in washington that we have always talked about or lack of pressure in washington to get anything done the only time we have had anything really get done when it comes to the economy and budgets and things like this a problem in the markets for better or worse and not saying it's the right thing. as long as this continues to happen, it's going to make it a lot harder, it's sored t of a proverse incentive to get anything done and that is my angst right now. >> absolutely. the economy did expand in the last quarter of 2012. and what is quite interesting is

in spite of the political bickering the economy has not gone off the rails and that is lessening the pressure on politicians to do anything. but the one key figure you need to know apart from the s&p hitting a record high yesterday is $7 trillion. that seemed that central banks around the world have pumped into the system the last few years and the fed is a part of that and a that money is swirling around looking for somewhere to go and right now? the stock market and frankly nowhere else for it to go. >> i don't disagree with anything you said about easy money and the rest. energy prices particularly in this country with natural gas and american manufacturing has real opportunities. the possibility i think of immigration reform is another positive thing out there. washington did not walk off a fiscal cliff and you did not have people challenge debt ceilings so what didn't happen in washington is least as

important as what happened in washington. people talk about irrational exuberance. i think some feelings is out there i'm not sure all of this -- >> do you think it's fairy dust? >> no, i don't think it is. >> 2% growth, what is the thing that is going to kick-start? i take this to gene because it's a political question. gene, we have had jobs crisis for four years and three months now. since the -- dating back to before the obama administration. is washington going to do, if anything, to answer andrew's question? the stock market going up, things improving and incremental ways richard said on a daily basis. anything washington feels need to be done to deal with the slow growth that has been around a long time? >> i wish i could be really

optimistic. i'm not. i've been pessimistic this last while, despite the optimism of some colleagues about any sort of grand bargain. i'm certainly pessimistic about anything specifically trying to jump-start the economy, anything specifically that is a big enough debt deal to have big impact. i think we are going to bump along. i think we will bump through the next two near crises and then slide into spring and summer hoping that things slowly continue to get better for the foreseeable future. >> i'll be more skeptical which i actually worry that we are going to start seeing little trembles from the sequester and see it in the economic numbers and you'll see headlines, by the way, that is then going to scare the markets and you sort of have a little bit of a spiral over the next couple of months. i don't know how long that lasts. >> he is like the antichauncey

bargain. >> he says there will not be growth in spring. >> i'll give you something to be scared of. if you think about the economy as a rubber band and you're pulling the rubber band. >> we are all the way out here, my friend. >> it's going to snap and the vast middle class out here and the very few wealthy elements here. >> we are already there, my friend. >> the only way mike can understand the economy is if you have a children's toy metaphor. >> cops and kids. gene robinson, we will be reading you today in the "the washington post.". >> lisa myers joys us about a massive spending spree. steve cohen dropped tens of millions of dollars on art and just bought a huge house for $60 million out in long island. despite ongoing allegations that some of the profits came from insider trading. that is next on "morning joe." [ gina ] oh hey, da ♪ go on take the money and run ♪

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♪ a federal judge is hold off approval to a 600 million dollar settlement between the s.e.c. and one of wall street's most successful hedge funds. nbc senior investigative correspondent lisa myers is live from washington. >> reporter: we got word this morning the fbi has arrested another trader who works for

hedge funds steve cohen the most senior at that firm who has been charged so far. now cohen has long been known as one the shrewdest investors ever and someone who lives large. still two of his recent blockbuster purchases are making headlines viewed as conspicuous consumption even by wall street standards. for almost two decades, steve cohen racked up returned of almost 30% a year for his investors and himself building an estimated $10 million fortune. the s.e.c. alleges that some of these profits came through improper inside information. to settle that case cohen's firm agreed to pay $116 million. but on thursday, a federal judge declined to rubber stamp the settlement, raising questions and delaying a final decision. >> the judge was concerned about language that allows cohen's firm to not admit wrong-doing. >> reporter: the prospect of paying hundreds of millions of dollars to the government hasn't hurt cohen's wallet.

he recently purchased this picasso art for $155 million. the most ever paid by an american collector. >> this is steve cohen saying, look. you can investigate me and take my money but i am still strong i'm still worth billions of dollars and you're not going to hurt me. >> reporter: if anyone didn't get the message he also spent $60 million on a beach-front home in a fabulously wealthy neighborhood in the hamp tons. another cohen property a duplex in new york bought for about $24 million, is on the market for $115 million. which would be one heck of a profit. >> wealth has been totally redefined on wall street. being rich on wall street used to mean you made 3 or maybe $5 million a year for a top deal maker. now these hedge fund guys have left the bankers in the dust. >> reporter: now even if the settlement is eventually proofed, cohen still faces an yang criminal investigation as morning's arrest underscores.

his spokesman points out, however, that cohen has never been charged with anything and insists that he has not done anything wrong. mike? >> lisa, thank you very much. hedge fund money is an entirely different universe, andrew. >> here is the thing. i know steve. the thing i can't figure out about this is i'm not sure that this is some kind of public defiance. i think he loves to trade the stuff. i think he loves big toys. but not necessarily just to show off but it's like -- he just likes big numbers. it's a very strange thing. but like when i have talked to him over the years, if he has a billion dollar trade or dollar trade to him it's basically the same thing if he thinks he can make more money. my understanding with the house, for example the $60 million house or whatever it is in the hamptons he was buying it with given. it's a game for him in terms i

want to beat the other guy. real quickly on the criminal charges what people have not been thinking about is the statute of limitations for him is almost up. this all either happens or doesn't happen in the end of july. that five years out. that is when the last insider trading investigation of this trade, specific trade may or may not have happened if that is what it is. we will either know or not. >> you figure the house on long island and selling the apartment in the bloomberg building, does century 21 handle that stuff for him? >> 6% of that? >> coming up, "the new yorker" steve cole with an story of espionage and torture and the united states government going after one of its own which is an important aspect of this show. that is next on "morning joe." ♪ more than two years ago,

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leaking. this case is about torture from the very beginning. if every former cia officer was prosecuted for referring a reporter to a former colleague for an interview, the prisons would be bursting with cia officers. to pursue me for the intelligence identities protection act was heavy handed. the officer of that act volunteered to serve as an expert witness at my trial because he said this was not why the law was written. >> that with john kiriakou on the "today" show. he is a former cia officer now in jail. kiriakou is known for going on the record about waterboarding in 2007. here with us now a staff writer

for "the new yorker." and newly appointed dean of school of journalism -- a long title for you. you have a piece in "the new yorker" magazine about john kiriakou. why he is in jail? >> he is a former cia officer that retired in 2004 and went into consulting and hollywood script writing and became a source for journalists. in the course of a very complicated investigation that the justice department ran at guantanamo bay looking into how al qaeda prisoners there had gotten pictures of former cia officers, they came across e-mail between kiriakou and several journalists and then indicted him under both the espionage act and intelligence identities protection act for illegally provided the names of cia officers and other unclassified information to "the new york times" and freelancers

and other agencies. >> an eminent threat, how much did it pose to our national security? >> the justice department the threat involved individual cia officers who were named in public or whose names were passed to journalists. that was the justice department's position. i think if you look at the record, there really isn't much demonstrated harm that has arisen, no specific threats he, no specific consequences. this is one of the reasons why this case has become so controversial. >> is there a larger aspect of this that perhaps i'm missing which would be no surprise? it is the threat of investigating of the federal government, the justice department, going an increasing numbers of people or leak to

reporters when there are so many others out there? i can think ten off the top of my head that ought to be investigated and/or indicted? >> no question something is going on. in the united states or last hundred years only ten sitting former government officials prosecuted leaking stuff to the american press. half a dozen indicted or investigated under the obama. no question they are trying to send a signal to government officials business usually as practiced in washington forever which involves the commonplace interactions between journalists and government officials involving classified information, that they are trying to deter officials from behaving the way they have. >> i'm probably the only person around the table who someone of those former government officials and what is wrong with this. you sign the deal when you become a government official not to disclose classified information and you have to day-by-day make a distinction between legitimate backgrounding talking to journalist and you have a sense where you don't

cross the line. what is wrong with what the obama administration is doing? >> i think the government wasn't so broken and so manipulated and misused from day-to-day in washington. this is a singling out of selected weak individuals. it's like when the justice system works and other sectors of our country. if you have a privileged position such as the one you held you're unlikely to get yourself entangled in a instance of interacting with a reporter. if you're like kiriakou talking about controversial matter hes and doesn't have a network of protection then you're going to get singled out. i think the system is basically hypocritical in a lot of respects. >> one of the things is the sheer amount of information today that is classified and the fact that if not as if it's a few key state secrets that are being guarded here it's a vast amount of information about the workings of the american government. >> it's a massive problem and something being written about for 20 years. what is the motivation about this guy?

what are we supposed to think about this guy? was he acting out of principle or self-promotion? what are we to make of him? >> all of those things. i spent months working on this story and a vexing character study because he is a very implicated individual. he was trained as a cia officer to deceive everyone around him. he seemed to practice those arts in lots of unexpected settings. what is interesting about the case, at least in my take on it, was on the one hand his character is fascinating, complex and reflects a sort of polluted aspect of washington's political kind of ecology. at the same time, you have to ask in a case like this is it really about the character of a whistle-blower or the larger issues? all whistle-blowers turn out to be complicated individuals with really, you know, sort of difficult to pin down mofgs and even as somebody in the piece pointed out even in "the new york times" in publishing the

pentagon papers were self-interesting in some respect. >> we are interested in the larger issue and the character of this guy that draws us about. >> what does he get hit with? 14 years? >> no probably 14 months. a judge said thought it was way too light but the first cia officer to ever go to jail to leaking to the american press. >> kind of amazing. >> off the top of my head, i can think of 20 people should do 30 months at at least at a minimum. >> i can think of four people at this table! >> steve coll, thanks very much. the article is in this week's issue of the "new yorker." up next, nbc we are joined by a musical icon by to toure.

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here with us now, co-host of "the cycle" out with the new book "i would die for you." why prince became an icon. you know, "purple rain" is what comes to my mind when i think of prince. an amazingly, staggering, surprisingly for me complex figure. >> absolutely. >> spans so much in terms of oour culture, but as well as our faith-based culture, our rock 'n' roll culture.

what drew you to him? >> well, i'm glad you talked about the faith-based culture because we think about prince and sexuality, that's what he wanted us to think about. but a spiritual aspect of his music when he talks about god and jesus and the devil and very traditional christian ways. if a lot of parents in the '80s listened beyond the sex and realized this person is talking about religion in the way that i would want religion to be discussed to my kids, they would say, hey, maybe you should be listening to prince. even in "purple rain" and he's talking about you should follow, you want a leader, you can't make up your mind. you need to close it and let me guide you to the purple rain. this messiah figure and he does it over and over and over. i would die for you? who would die for you? jesus christ. before he made "purple rain" he made a movie that never got finished called "the second

coming." >> so, why did that message get lost? >> you know, i think he was like christ. he was ministering to people who didn't want those messages. he's out not with the church people, not with the people who wanted it, but others who weren't ready for those messages and just seeding our minds with that sort of stuff. so, you know, we weren't sort of listening for that, especially as young people. we come to the music for "little red corvette" and then deeper into the album and get into a song called "god" and little jesus messages and it's there, too. when you get to an album like "love sexy" it's not lost at all. it's clear what this guy is talking about. >> there is no question, you and i are both huge fans and he's one of the great musical

virtueoso's of popular music and a huge cultural force. you think about the 1980s and into the early 1990s. michael jackson, prince, hip-hop. i'm talking about african-american music. talk about that context. what was the cultural, music impact of this guy relative three big things happening at the same time? >> gigantic question, which i would only expect from the great john, which blurbed the book which is on the back. >> and i appreciate that. i mean, look, it's interesting. michael jackson representing sort of the mo-town experience. the child of motown bringing that forward. and hip-hop being sort of like what the street wanted to talk about. maybe the child of stax. but prince bringing those two things together and wanting to have more than motown and wanting to have a crossover

experience and being black, as well. and also sort of hip-hop was to go all the way back. it almost seemed like a lot of them had never known women. they were so masculine and prince is on the other end of that spectrum. michael jackson the -- so much a part of him, he's wearing it on his sleeve. >> remember when he became a symbol for a couple years. what was going on with that? >> not as complicated as it seems. perfect question from you because he wanted to get away from his record business contract. so, if i change my name -- >> that's all it was. >> that you don't own me any more. if i'm not prince, then you don't control me any more. and he didn't care. i played basketball with him around that time, right? and i thought you weren't supposed to call him prince because the whole thing, the symbol of my name.

unpronounceable and i passed the ball to him and he didn't see it coming and i was like, prince, you're not supposed to say that. and he loved that you didn't know what to call me. he didn't care if you called him prince or purple rain, just call me on time for supper. >> blue book this one. prince is the combination of jimi hendrix and james brown. go. >> no doubt. the rock god stuff of jimi hendrix and the hardest working men in show business and the heels, the way that he danced is very much that sort of james brown secondary thing. absolutely the son of those two people without a doubt. >> have an easter egg. >> thank you, sir. >> don't read this like a little message. >> read it first. >> is it dirty? what are we talking about? >> i'm getting paid to get sober. >> i don't know who that was supposed to be directed to.

>> they're all directed to me. >> my friend, thank you for joining us. the book is "i would die for you." why prince became an icon. we'll see you at 3:00 p.m. on "the cycle" today. up next, pope francis breaks tradition by including women and muslims in a holy thursday ritual. john meacham weighs in on that, next, right here on "morning joe." [ man ] i got this citi thankyou card and started

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morning. 8:00 on the east coast. live look at new york city. back with us on set john meacham, "financial times" jilli jillion. there is gonews. pope francis has seemed to anger some in the catholic church in the holy week ritual. pope francis became the first pope in history to wash the feet of women on holy thursday. the pope visited the juvenile detention center and allowed two female inmates to join ten male inmates in the ceremony where he washed, dried and kissed their feet in the gesture of humility. the vatican spokesman responded to the criticism writing in an e-mail ", here the rite was for

a small unique community made up also of women. excluding the girls would have been inopportune in light of the simple aim of communicating a message of love to all." first of all the first jesuit as pope. secondly, the jesuit, who they are. humility. dealing with the poor, which is really the franchise of the catholic church around the world when you look at it. hard to believe and i'm not sure if this criticism resonates from the old crew in the vatican, still there. but hard to believe that anyone can be critical of the pope for choosing to two women inmates. >> frankly, no one read the bible that jesus himself washed the feet of both men and women. i mean, it's appalling that anyone could actually complain about this. >> don't let facts get in the way. we're talking about a thelogical argument. right, another small unique

community made also of women was the apostles. women discovered the tomb. the revital, mary magdalen helped underwrite the whole enterprise on this very day. one of the few people remain with him to the very end was his mother, mary. so, the story, unfortunate story in the broad church of really starting in the middle of the first millennia has been trying to write women out of the story. minimize the role. the institution of celibacy. theology had very little to do with them. >> what is the root of celibacy? >> that having heredity offices was a potential source of corruption. and having clerical family as added to the world of, that

world particularly in the mediterranean would create these great clerical barrons. so, if you had celibate priests then you could not at least officially pass down the line. people don't know. celibacy was not a feature until about the year 1,000. >> but i know, josh, you keep up with the holy roman catholic church on a day-to-day basis. but just on the general scope, worldwide scope looking at the universal church having less to do with those who are across the street at st. patrick's this morning. the universal church around the world, feeding people, caring for people. dealing with people with a sense of humility, rather than a sense of secrecy, as we've seen in the catholic church for too long. the, the sharpness already turned towards this new pope by, i think, a small element within the vatican is really an

interesting story. >> it is. the other thing to look at here, too, is the gesture by francis to kind of reach out, broaden the church. include women, people who haven't traditionally been included. and distinguish himself a little bit from his predecessor and sort of broaden the appeal a little bit and change the story around the church. >> well, we said at the beginning when he first was appointed, he was a transitional pope. you know, we're going, he's going to kind of, if he is going to be a transitional figure, there is going to be some dragging. kicking and screaming of the church into the modern age and they're not going to go easily into the 21st century. >> think about, one of the oldest, continuously operating human institutions. it's hard to imagine -- >> i thought you were going to say the oldest, operating --

>> that, too. >> but needs to adapt and appeal to new generation, not just in the west, but in the emerging markets and developing world, too. frankly little gestures like washing the feet of women, we should all be celebrating it. >> absolutely. i agree with you. turning now to north korea from the papacy. that's a hard -- we have to make sure the car doesn't go right off the road. north korea, which is rapidly stepping up its rhetoric and posture against the united states. the country has put rocket units on standby saying they are ready to fire on u.s. military sites in south korea and the pacific. kim jong-un said they're ready to settle accounts. the announcement comes after they flew stealth bombers over south korean air space. deployed from a base in missouri, they practiced dropping bombs nearly 6,500

miles away. chuck hagel says the pentagon is not taking the regime's threats lightly. >> is north korea more dangerous today? i think they're very provocative actions and belligerent tone. it has ratcheted up the danger. and we have to understand that reality. >> on tuesday, kim jung-un threatened to fire on hawaii and the u.s. mainland and as recently put ground troops in artillery on standpoint. pyongyang released a video showing the u.s. capitol and white house under attack. this is like a cartoon. i mean, they can't even get their rocket 15 feet off the ground. >> but one of the important things is, the assumption is in military circles and intelligent circles is one of the reasons this is happening is actually a north korean leader is under

threat internally and he's having to prove to his own people that he's a strong man. now, if that's the case, in some ways, that would be encouraging. the people have been waiting for years to see regime change in north korea. at the same time, a recipe for a lot more instability because frankly as long is china there giving its support to north korea, you have the makings of a very nasty mess if north korea will become a lot less stable in the future. >> aren't the chinese petrified that north xrea will become even more unstable. that people will become even hung reer than they are now and start spilling over the border into china? isn't that the great fear? >> that is the great fear and the sense, i think, joe is exactly right. the sense that it becomes ever more of an irrational actor. most states you can figure will act at least in its interest. given the internal situation, given potential insecurities

with the new chief and the regime, suddenly they may not be even by their standards, rational. and that becomes a recipe for instability. >> one of the other things if you look at the map across that part of the world right now. a host of simmering conflicts. not just north and south korea. you have increasing tension between china and japan and japan and korea. a lot of nasty things that could come to the bubble at some point. which, frankly, people should be worried about right now. >> i hear the phrase regime change. i want to put the pillow over my head and stop thinking about things. >> when i was at the "atlantic" a couple years ago a journalistic exercise i had generals, think deckers come in and war game what that would look like and it wasn't pretty for anybody, including the u.s. >> what happened in the war games? what was the result? we won, right? >> it was ugly. it wasn't something you want to

test in the real world was the take away i remember. >> oh, man. let's go to south africa now. >> if you want to be cheerful. >> playing a game of risk this morning. >> just call me rand mcnaly. >> regime change and reconciliation that worked. >> this is the march -- >> want me to do it it with a straight face? >> normer south african nelson mandela. >> this is -- >> it is friday. >> he has had health problems in the past, but his latest hospitalization was unplanned and that sparked real concern about his condition. officials are monitoring the 94-year-old who is suffering from a lung infection as a recurring ailment linked to the tuburkeulosis linked to his two years in prison.

a report from south africa. >> nelson mandela is said to be responding to treatment. >> nelsonm mandela is home. >> the news quickly spread around the world, he rushed to the hospital, the third hospitalization in four months but this time officials weren't calling it scheduled or routined. >> nelson mandela is responding positively to the treatment he is receiving for a recurring lung infection. >> photographed with his great-grandson last month, mandela looked healthy, but he's 94 now, increasingly frail and rarely seen in public. south africa's current president spoke about the health of his famous predecessor. "we appeal to the people of south africa and the world to pray for madiba and his family

and keep them in their thoughts." mandela spent 27 years in prison for resisting before he finally prevailed. >> i wish him speedy recovery and we love you so much. >> reporter: president obama meeting with african leaders at the white house express concern for mandela's health. >> he's a hero, i think, to all of us. i'm sure that i speak for the other leaders here and, you know, we will be keeping him in our thoughts and prayers and his entire family. >> south africa is a young country and most people here have no memory of mandela's years in captivity. the so-called born free generation. but he remains an iconic, towering figure. >> what a epic life and epic figure. 27 years in jail for an idea equality. >> it is an amazing thing.

it's almost 20 years now since he came out of prison. remember back when it happened in 1994 and south africa was so, the change was so dramatic. he is now this guy who is -- there is no more beloved figure, i think, in the entire world from mandela from a political prisoner to president of the country to almost like a secular saint at this point. it's an astonishing life. >> here's the amazing thing about mandela and why he's such an extraordinarily powerful figure. not only did he survive in prison. not only come out and embark on the extraordinary mission of reckonci reconciliation but he also served one term and then left. >> yeah. >> that is practically unheard of in africa where usually people get into power and cling on to it at all costs. to basically have that life essentially in prison to then seek reconciliation and then bow out with such grace, it's

fantastic. if only more leaders could only look at his track record today when, frankly, the world needs leadership and reconciliation we'll be in a much better place. >> john, i'm troubled now, perhaps you can help me between listening to gillian and listening to that report. i was thinking we were doing the news hour, but like bbc. >> let's hear about sip reoughts. >> what's wrong with bbc? >> we love bbc. >> john lewis is the american equivalent, a man who bares the physical scars. he could have died in the streets of selma and birmingham and montgomery. you know, this, that generation that linked the news hour briefly that actually took principals who are articulated and talked about in religious

circles. virtus of refusal which we give a lot of lip service to. a handful of people who actually put their lives on the line. martin luther king who fell for those virtus and those are the people we should study and think about. >> particularly on good friday, frankly. what a wonderful symbol of sacrifice. still ahead, faith on fridays. we'll discuss good friday, passover and the prospect for peace in the holyland with three religious leaders off aering fre fresh views. up next, monarch in the middle. jeffrey goldburg on the reaction to his recent article about the king of jordan. an american ally surrounded by the arab spring. plus bbc state department correspondent joins the conversation. first, again, unfortunately, we have to do this and he's not been correct for over a month. but here he is trying, again, on

good friday. bill karins with a check of the forecast. >> i'm not getting involved. it's almost the holiday weekend, too, for some. today traveling looks okay around the country and then we're all just itching for this warm air of spring to move up through the entire country. not quite yet. but i think the end of next week things are looking pretty good. travel trouble spot anywhere on interstate 55 from st. louis down to memphis, rainy ride. rain and a few thunderstorms just to the north of little rock rolling around interstate 40. the only real travel issue i have out there. here's the forecast in the next three days. rain is today and develop in areas of oklahoma. few showers in the northern portions of new york state and a few showers in montana and then as we go into saturday, this system gains a little strength. a rainy saturday as we go from memphis northwards up through the quadcities and into areas right around minapailous and by the time easter sunday rolls around. i really think we'll deal with the most rain in areas of the

eastern seaboard, the midwest will clear out. looks like probably a rainy sunday possibly for areas around d.c. to philadelphia to baltimore. sunday afternoon and evening up in new york. a lot of people were asking me when we finally get rid of the cold air. the cold air shown here in the red and the blue and the purples as we go through tuesday of next week. one more shot of cold air and then as we head towards the end of next week, it all finally leaves and it looks like we'll get our spring reward at the end of next week. in other words, plan your three-day weekend now. if you can get away with it. we leave you the shot of washington, d.c. we should be talking cherry blossoms any time now. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ kitt ] you know what's impressive?

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>> i'm especially grateful to his madgety who, like his father, memoriamemorialized by mosque i saw when i arrived. you invested deeply and personally in strengthening the ties between our countries, that's why you are the first arab leader i welcomed to the oval office when i became president and i appreciate the work we did together on a broad range of challenges. >> president obama last week in jordan, praising king abdullah ii. the jor dadanian leader turned heads. joining us now from miami jeffrey goldburg author of "monarch in the middle."

and also joining us is kim a chattis. let me ask you about the piece in "the atlantic." i read it online and i had to check to make sure it wasn't "the onion" i was reading. how drunk was he when he gave that interview. an astounding interview. what happened here? >> he was not drunk. let me just be absolutely clear on that point. you know, it's so funny because we automatically assume in our profession that if a world leader or politician tells the truth, the unvarnished truth, he must be out of his mind or drunk or something. i think this is a guy, i have known him for a long time. very candid guy. a very blunt guy.

and this might be a case of the king actually saying what he wanted to say. he had messages to deliver to a lot of different factions, a lot of different people in the middle east and he delivered them pretty efficiently, actually. >> jeffrey, usually when people deliver messages they have a purpose, they have an agenda. after i read it for the second time, i kept asking myself. what did the king hope to accomplish by that degree of indiscretion criticizing his neighbors and relatives and the only people he didn't criticize were the israelis who he referred to as the cousins. >> you will ultimately have to ask him and not me why he said it. it's not my job to, although, i did say, you know, what is the point of argue aing this publicly when he was, let's say, criticizing his intelligence service for trying to undermine, in the past, at least, trying to undermine democracy. i was curious about that.

i think he's a guy who, you know, thinks what he thinks, says what he says. that's always been the case. look, also, you're the sovereign in a way. you know this. not a lot of people around you even though we had in this series of interviews. his spokesman was there, chief of staff was there. not a lot of people around saying, hey, shut up. or something like that. it's just the nature of monar y monarchiy, richard, as you know. >> jeff, i have a question for you. the king said a lot of blunt and candid things about a lot of middle eastern rulers. >> yeah. >> he was you talked to him right before the president went over and met with him. what did he have to say about barack obama and the united states? >> well, whatever is in the story is in the story. you know, it's -- i think he feels and, you know, here's, you know, this impression now that he's thoroughly indiscreet.

i don't feel that because there are a lot of things he wouldn't talk about freely. you know, we had chats that were off the record, obviously. i think he appreciates barack obama. he appreciates the support. look, jordan is fundamentally dependency of the united states in many a ways. so, he does appreciate the president. i think, broadly, he believes that we americans are naive about the muslim brotherhood. that was something that came through. he did not say this in reference to the president, obviously. but he did talk about how people in the state department, nameless people in the state department were trying to sell a line that the muslim brotherhood was our friend. that the muslim brotherhood was democr democratic. in egypt and jordan and sees the prime minister of turkey as a functionary of the brotherhood, as well. i think he believes we are naive on the subject. >> john meacham. could you talk a little bit

about, what, here we are, 14, 15 months into the arab spring. can you talk a little bit about jordan, syria, where you see the whole map at this point? >> well, yeah -- >> let me first tell you what, you know, the king, i think, was trying to do with this interview that he gave to jeffrey. it sounded to me as though he was trying to prove his credentials as a reformer in the eyes of the west. in fact, what he did was show that he is a weak leader, unable to implement reform or unwilling to do so. i mean, either he's the king or he's not. and i've read a lot of reactions from people in jordan saying it's a little bit too easy to say that people i appoint aren't implementing the reforms that i'm asking them to do. and they say, well, you've appointed them, surely, you have a role to play in making them do that. you have been in power for 14 years. but the reason why possibly the

interview goes down somewhat well in washington circles is because there is only so much band width in the u.s. to deal with the uprisings in the arab world. and washington will probably at this stage believe any leader, the promises that they're implementing reforms without too much questioning. particularly when it comes to a country like jordan bordering iraq, israel and syria with all the refugees flooding in from syria. this is a line that leaders have used often in the arab world to justify their continued rule in the region. that i am the reformer and if it's not me, it's chaos or the muslim brotherhood. >> well, let me, let me just respond to the original question about the air a spring. look, if syria implodes or explodes as it is on the path towards descentgration right

now, a huge impact on jordan, which is america's most stable ally in the middle east. the key partner in the fight against al qaeda among the air ab states. a very professional intelligence service not withstanding what the king was saying about its interference. one theory is you let him pay lip service to reform and it's fine, just keep funding this government and keep them stable as possible and pay for the work that they have to do with the syrian refugees. the other thought is, you know what, he has to ride this wave. he's got to devolve power to the people or else he'll be overwhelmed by the wave. the wave that overswept everyone else is coming for jordan. he has to get ahead of it. two different theories. one is just stand a thwart, that wave and just be the absolute monarch and the other is, ride it and try to get the people along with you.

>> jeffrey, you just came back from jordan. kim, you had just britain written a book about the former secretary of state. i am one that things jordan is extraordinarily vulnerable. the king sits on a shaky throne. what do you think they need to do now? we announced giving them a couple hundred million dollars to help with refugees. what can the united states do, though, to keep king hussein on that throne? >> no matter how much calls you hear for jordan on that reform, i think the united states will want to see king abdullah continue the pace of reform as slowly as he needs to do it. because as jeffrey pointed out, they cannot handle, washington cannot handle another leader falling in the arab world. jordan is a crucial ally and it is going to be crucial in the coming four years for president obama as he tries, perhaps, again, to restart some kind of peace process in the middle east. now, we've seen president obama go to israel and to jordan last

week or ten days ago. an appeal to the people there, in israel, to, in essence, go beyond their leader and push their leaders to make peace happen. we'll have to see whether the israelis respond to that. but i think there is, as i was saying, only so much bandwidth the u.s. can deal with in terms of how much change it can handle in the region. syria is a very difficult situation. no one seems to have the right answer. you have people who say it's time to arm the rebels. you have people who say, no, it is essential to remain cautious. but inaction also comes at a cost. >> look, the, the cost of propping up the king is going to be a lot less than the cost of dealing with the aftermath of the collapse of that throne. so, you know, certainly, we should be doing as much as we can to help them pay for -- look, it's a broke country. they have no money. they get subsidies from the gulf

and subsidies from us. 4,000 plus syrian refugees right now. being swamped by refugees. we have to help on that front. the truth is in jordan more than a lot of these other places. unrest comes when the price of fuel goes up and the price of bread goes up. so, you know, i'm not immune to the charms of the theory that for the next period of time, whatever that is, that the west and the moderate arab states of the gulf need to be just, you know, supplying these people with money to keep things as quiet as possible. because the price of the opposite of quiet, the price of revolution would be extraordinarily high for that country and for us. >> the article is in the new issue of "the atlantic." jeffrey goldberg, i will keep with my theory that he was stone cold drunk. >> he could find jordan on a map and you -- >> he lives in north carolina. he owns the basketball team. that's the only jordan i know. kim ghattas your new book "the

secretary" is up next. a-rod isn't one of the highest paid in baseball, he actually earns more than all of the houston astros combined. that's not bad for a 37-year-old guy with a bad hip and a million girlfriends. did you know, your eyes can lose vital nutrients as you age?

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great song. time for a look at some of today's headlines. gas prices are slowly returning to lower levels. the national average price for a gallon of regular is currently $3.65. the drop has some analysts rethinking their $4 a gallon estimates predicted for this -- >> i keep hearing it may not go back up. >> facebook is preparing for a major announcement next week at its headquarters in california. teasing a quote "new home for android." that is fueling speculation that a facebook smartphone may be on the way. >> i think it's possible. be people have been talking about it forever.

amazon has taken the android platform and layered or we're talking about an app. >> what did you hear about the gas prices? >> a number of gas analysts on. >> one-world government. >> there's a lot of gas -- >> do you still work on friday nights for that mobile station up on the west side highway. >> no, an exxon downtown. >> hey, don't forget about blackberry. >> blackberry getting on the smartphone market, he said. a surprise fourth quarter profit and sold a million of its new z different z-10 smartphones. they recorded a loss. >> i like that they call it the z10 because with blackberry it's like -- from "the denver post" alex rodriguez will be on the show for the first half of the seizen with his bad hip. but his $29 million salary is still the tops in the major

leagues and $4 million more than the entire houston astros team will make in 2013. this is the 13th straight year a-rod will have the highest salary in the league. higher than even mike barnicles. >> the owner of new york's sports teams. what is it about it? >> they have a lot of money. >> too much money. >> i will say this, my 10-year-old is so outraged by the a-rod thing that he can't stand it. you know, they're paying -- >> he has three more years left on that deal. three more years. >> this is like your deal. >> you know why they played barnacle, they pay barnacle more because he has better hips than a-rod. >> i am the best pitcher in the world because i only work every fifth day. the all-time great, peter gamitz. is there anyone greater? >> yes, you're sitting next to him. i'm kidding. i'm kidding.

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man, another great song. joining us now for faith on fridays discussion. and this is no substitute for going to mass on sunday or make up my easter duty. i understand that. but a friday faith and discussion. good friday. let's start with, to me, a mildly shocking observation. yesterday in rome, pope francis bathed the feet of several

people, inmates at a juvenile prison and included two women for the first time and there is some evidence that has come forward that some catholics were upset with this. but isn't this the ultimate definition, not just of christianity, but of faith. all incompassing faith. >> i think he is trying to build bridges, which is what we have been about for the past five years in the city of newark and beyond. honoring one another in such a deep way that we've learned from one another. so, influences my truth and we're able to share that in a reconciling way which is very important to the world. >> dean, what have you learned? >> i think in our faith, islam looks at all the prophets and sees that there is a universal message that is in all the scriptures. and i think what we would like

to see understood, even what i think the pope wants other people to understand is that there is a universal message in all these faiths that have to do with a balance spirituality and social consciousness. that's what i hope the pope is trying to convey in his message. universal message of balance. spirituality and social responsibility. >> rabbi, first, we all have talked a good bit. this is the first time we allowed a catholic to join us. appreciate that. >> and this is like a joke. we have -- >> and a golf club. >> and a golf club. passovthis week. what has changed for you in the observance of passover and how you talk about it to your congregation from say your first couple of years when you were in ministry? >> first, it was the message of

liberation, freedom, being liberated from farrows egypt or moses through god's hand. but i've gone further than that since then. i have gotten to the point where it is a parable about the bible. pharaoh's army coming after them and they're crying saying we have to go back. better to be a slave than be free and moses puts it into the water. the waves were like razor blades. the worst rip tide you can imagine. but a man who decides out of no where, seemingly out of no where he jumps in. jumps in and kisses his wife good-bye and the sea starts to split. and the lesson being. the famous leap of faith. the lesson being we don't sit here for god to liberate us or make us free. it is our job to partner with

god to make god's miracles manifest on earth. we refuse to wait for each of us to come to each other and we go to each other with distinctive truths and work hand in hand and heart to heart and soul to soul and that's the deeper message. >> so, is there a unifying theme that strings the three faiths represented here today, that strings all of us in the community of mankind, personkind together? is there a unifying theme? >> we're created in infinite dignity. we're made in the image of god. that certainly draws us together and our commitment is to do whatever we can to promote nonviolence. certainly, this is a day, good friday, which is a demonstration of the worst violence could be brought on one human being and what we're trying to do together and independently is to speak and act to promote nonviolence.

we've been doing that all in sorts of different ways. >> there is a definite unifying theme and the unifying theme in islam has to do with the principle. there is one god, there is one creator and one who sustains life and then that one god has created this one human family. up to us to understand what that connection is and what those relationship shiships are withi human family. in other words, how do we cultivate this garden or this paradise on earth that we invasion in the heavens. >> but to be clear, how do you all deal with the issue that you all are not simply cafeteria choices? you're not universalests. >> i think the problem is we sort of feel like the more we marinate our society, the more we're going to get along. to have that moment. we've learned the opposite. that as much as we can dig into our own truths, be distinct,

suggest that distinct truth to one another and then counterintew tivly that we come together with an umbrella that is pro peace. not by being the same, but being different. learning about the different truths and that adds to the umprelu umbrella of which i speak. >> allowing that genuineness to be honest about your relationship with other human beings, appreciate the knowledge and, again, having to do with what we understand to be the whole meaning of passover. there is an orientation or knowledge that people get that allows them to come through, to pass through or to even get out of sometimes a difficulty that sometimes society presents. and that knowledge enables you to pass through that safely into an area of paradise. >> how do you guys travel together? you went to israel together. >> we went to israel together. equal number of jus, chr and t moment for me was going to the

church of holy sepulcher with seven jewish people who wanted to accompany me and hear the story from me. not from a guide book or a guide, but from me. that required me to be able to tell the story to them and invited me deeper into my own story. so, as i learn more from matthew's tradition and from dee n n's tradition, i am closer to my own tradition. we're brought closer to god's love and witness. >> i am feeling better already. >> i am, too. >> this is actually progress. >> our real conflict is this is a boston celtics fan and i am a new york knicks fan. >> we're feeling pretty good. god is on our side this year. believe me when i tell you. thank you, all. up next, the best of late night, including willie's appearance alongside kim kardashian on "leno" last night.

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any parenting tips? >> parenting tips. i would say, kanye is going to have to decide early on whether

or not he's a baby bjorn guy because the moment you put on that baby bjorn there is no turning back. it is like buying a minivan. we use local law enforcement to help in the discipline of our children. >> how does that work? >> and the cops know us by now. when we come in, one of the nice officers comes out from behind and i say, officer, i hate to bring this up, i know you're busy and you have bigger fish to fry. but george didn't eat his vegetables tonight. new york police, god bless them, they play along. george who idol idolizes the po george, you can't hit your sister, do you understand, george. they have the uniform, the gun and the badge and he just back pedals out of there and it keeps him good for a week. >> i think he has a pretty bright future that kid.

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a big easter hupt here today fueled by jan and john and joe and they made up these eggs. we found them. what is your egg? little messages. >> my a couple things going on. a twix. when mommy and daddy are away, mike barnicle will play. >> and you have. >> that's true. >> that's good. >> go. >> no, you have to go. >> not once have we ended this show on time. hard to argue with the facts. >> you are already correct. so, in my big pink easter egg. first of all, i got a munchkin. one free get out of what joe learned in congress segment. >> mine is, and thank you, john, joe and mike