small business owners meet with president obama to talk about the economy. how do you get your first customers? one company that matches advertisers with commercial producers did it with deep discounts. and even the easter bunny would love the sweat story behind this booming candy business. it's time to make money coming up on "your business." ♪ candy, candy, candy sfoet

small businesses are revitalizing the economy and american express open is here to help. that's why we are proud to present "your business" on msnbc. hi there, everyone. i'm j.j. ramberg and welcome to "your business" the show dedicated to giving you tips and advice to help your small business grow. during last year's presidential election, there was a lot of talk about helping america's small businesses. and now entrepreneurs are looking to washington to back that talk up with action. on march 18th, the national small business asosociation or nsba, brought a group of small business owners from 20 states to the white house to talk to officials about what's going on with the economy. president obama met with the group and spoke about issues affecting them including taxes,

policies and the need to innovate. mike runs factory services agency, a family owned commercial heating, air conditioning can and ventilation company near new orleans. he's also a member of the nsba and attended that meeting with the president. chris holman is ceo of the michigan business network, a statewide business news website and broadcast company. he is the immediate past chairman of the board of trustees for the msba. great to see you beth. >> good morning. thanks for having us. >> i appreciate you giving us insight into what happened at that meeting. so, mike, let me start with you. what are some of the biggest issue your company and people in your industry and your area of the world are facing and how did the president react it to them? >> one of the major things we seem to continually be faced with is the never ending list of regulations that keep coming out of the national labor relations board and the office of economic

equal opportunity commission and osha and epa and everyone else just seem to consistently be trying to pile new regulations on small businesses. some of the other proposals coming out that we were anxious to get a chaps to talk about, there's so much communication right now about the new immigration reform and, of course, some of our members are concerned with patent reform, businesses have new products and have trouble getting patents. they fight big businesses who seem too much the edge on those things. >> hey, chris, can i ask can you a question? do you think the administration has a real sense of how some of these policies affect small business? look, when you're writing them down on paper, you're in washington and europe not the guy running the dry-cleaner in cleveland, you may not think all the way down to what does this mean to that particular person. do you think anyone there is really paying attention to the nitty-gritty? >> you know, i honestly think they're paying attention but you can't have the empathy for the circumstances that we undergo as

small business people until you're really in our shoes and that's kind of where some of this falls down. i think the intent is well laid. i think that washington wants to help us. i think the white house in particular wants to help us. sometimes they're unaware of the, you know, unachievable or -- >> unintended consequences basically? >> yeah, and the things that come out of it because they don't circulate in that genre every day. i really think people are trying hard, but it wasn't too lopping ago we all met with some of the regulators. they write regulations. they're regulators. we're the people they impact. i think we'd like a little more empathy with those regulators to say what will be some of the impacts and what will be the additional work loads that we'll be placing on small businesses? >> did you walk away feeling like things are going to change? i've spoken, somebody will hear me? >> this is one of the things i walked away with because i had met with the president in

december on some small business issues and to see him there, one of the messages he came in with was we want to hear from you as a small business. i was ecstatic to hear that. we've been wanting for a long time to reconvene the white house conference on small business which the last time there was one was 18 years ago. and he immediately said, you know what, this is something we need to do. let's get it done. bring me your biggest issues, and we'll work on them on an annual basis. so i do think there's concern there. it will have to wait and see exactly what happens in the future. but i do think they heard and i do think they know the importance of small business. we employ 54% of the working force here in the country. >> did you find some consistency amongst you and the other members or the other people who were there around the issues that you were facing? >> there are so many issues coming out of d.c. that impact us that we just need some action and almost to the person, the majority of the legislators that spoke to us, senators and

representatives from all over the country and even the president indicated what most small businesses want to see is just get out of the way and let us do things so we can restore the economy. everybody preaches that small businesses are the economic engine of the economy of the country but then they seem to keep taking the bridges out so that we can't get this engine rolling forward. we just need some clarity in d.c. we need some understand iing. we need them to work together like small businesses do to solve problems. we need the people in d.c. to work together and solve our difficulties. >> mike and chris, we appreciate you coming on and giving us a little insight into what happened in that meeting and also for being mouthpieces for small businesses all across the country. thanks for joining us. >> thank you. thank you for having us, j.j. we appreciate the time. when starting up or launching a new product, a lot of businesses find themselves in a catch-22 when it comes to getting the first customers. they need case studies to attract clients but they need clients to get the case studies. so what do you do? ever thought of giving your

service away for free or at least at a deep discount? well, that's exactly what the company tongle did and it's working out for them. as entertainingly remembered in the show "mad men" this is the way commercials are still typically made. >> the most important idea in advertising is new. >> a company hires an expensive ad agency to produce an expensive ad. the foinders of los angeles based tongal, james, mark, and rob, are turning that model on its head. revolutionizing the way commercial cans are made for both the internet and television. they've created a way for companies to bypass the agencies and harness the creativity of the crowd. >> produce contend, post the challenge onto our website and anyone in the world with a good idea is voted into the process. >> here is how it works.

a brand like chims ahoy puts out a request for ideas for a commercial advertising its product and offers a cash prize for the person who comes up with the best one. then anyone, you, me, your grandmother, can submit an idea. donald had never directed a commercial before until he won the chance to make this. >> i love you! >> i can't believe it's not butter! >> people do not take chances unless on young filmmakers you have something. tongal has allowed me to show i can do this. >> the brand gets a good ad for much less than they pay an ag t agency, tongal gets a fee for managing the process and an army of unknown creatives get the chance to make a commercial. win, win, win, right? in the beginning it was hard to convince anyone of that. so how did can they get companies to come onboard? well, they gave away their

servi services for free. basically in the beginning tongal earned nothing. and sometimes even put up the prize money themselves. with this strategy they were able to land the micro lending site kiva, the clothing company vineyard vines and a the makers of duck tape. david rogers said tongal guys convinced him by saying this. >> look, this is very low risk, very low resources and very low cost. >> cost was key to his decision. >> from a budget standpoint, we could really fit it in without sacrificing too much from the other planned programs we had going on. >> when you talked to dave and said to him, okay, i'm willing to do this incredibly cheap. does it tear your heart out a little to be giving away, in he is sents, your product? >> it does because you believe in the long term what the value of all this really is. >> turns out this deal was a risk worth taking on everyone's side. dave and his team chose a commercial they likely would not have taken a gamble on in a

traditional model. >> it's a very crazy concept that i think before you see it executed and executed so well, it's really tough, i think, to envision and envision as a successful video. >> the video went viral and was watched more than 2.5 million times. shurtech got more than their money's worth and have come back for other products. >> literally changed my life. >> and t 0 ongal has gotten other early clients to come back as well, but they admit it's hard to raise the price after you've given something as a discount. is it hard to say, okay you spent $17,000 on that commercial. it went viral, people love it. now i'm going to ask you to pay $60,000 on your next commercial? >> yeah, it is. it's absolutely hard because, again, there's difficulty in terms of setting precedent and getting people to pay more. >> mark says managing the process of raising the fee is

all about being up front with about it from the start. >> it's just being transparent, communicating from the beginning that this is being sold at a discount. this should be worth "x." we are doing this to build a relationship. >> and then backing up the success with numbers to justify an increased price going forward. david agrees. >> we paid more because we understand the content that we get is pron to be really great. >> the duck tape success story was worst the investment by the tongal team. now clients include mcdonald's, lego, food to name a few. >> the selling process has changed from, hey, you should think about doing this to how can we help you solve your problem? >> and nothing in their universe marks success more than producing a commercial that airs during the super bowl. >> it was awesome. it was great in the sense i think in the advertising world that's the super bowl. a bad pun right there. >> the founders of it tongal say they still have room as far as

pricing is concerned but long gone are the days of begging someone, anyone, to hire them for free. so is initially offering discounts to attract cust had mers a viable strategy? let's ask this week's board of directors. mike is ceo of preventus group, they help companies that have plateaued get back to growing. he is also a best-selling author. and the special projects director at entrepreneur.com, colleen. great to see you both. >> great to see you. >> so this is a story that happens all of the time. you have this great service and you're trying to get people to use it. and offering it for free and they just hang up the phone on you. i mean, i told them -- i asked them in the beginning, what were people's reactions? and they said even when they were offering it for free, nobody wanted to do it because it takes time and takes thinking. and so is it a viable strategy for a lot of companies? >> to get started you have to do

it for free because it's so risky to be the first customer. so i talk with any business starting out. if you can do it free or significantly dig counted in the beginning, the second customer is the one who will be asking for the referral. so i hate to say it but it is the way to get started. you need to ratchet up the prays quickly to become profitable. >> i don't know if you to it for free -- >> maybe not for free. >> i think a good thing -- i think they mentioned about being up front with customers. i think what you do, yeah, you do it at a discount and you do -- we hear a lot about the model. i think you say this is free depending on what it is maybe for the first 30 days. this is a trial period. but after that, after that finite amount of time you will have to pay for it or, you know, this is a very -- we'll give you a basic thing for flee and then after that we'll throw some -- if you want to pay more you can get all the bells and whistles. >> dave rogers, the guy from shurtech said i thought was interesting and perfect, they needed to give it to me at a

price that kept it under the radar so i could still have the things i know work, i could still have an agency out there working on something and i don't have to take money from that to test this out. but they got to a guy who was responsive to their idea and then made it easy for him to sell it in the company because he didn't have to go ask for money for it basically. >> that guy's job is on the line and that's why you do it at a discount or maybe for tree because if he's wrong, he's going to get fired for that. but here is one thing you should do. every time you invoice with a client even if it's discount, give them the full price and show the credit back. you have to show them the value they're getting and that position to ratchet it up later down the road. >> keep that integrity of your price in there and, you know what i also think is a neat idea and i have seen companies can do this. they do a different pricing structure for, like, they might give away their service for free to another startup, to a smaller company that doesn't have big

revenues yet where they will charge a higher price for a bigger company and this guy mentioned chips ahoy, i think. i can see you're that little company out there. y you want to get those big, big clients, but i think it's better to go and get the smaller clients first. they can be your case studies. >> and what was neat, they got kiva and vineyard farms but well-known names. lots of people out there know what kiva is. kiva is a cool, innovative company yet they don't have a the lot of money to get a big commercial company and so it seemed like a smart strategy and it's working out for these guys. indeed it was. thanks, guys. providing health benefits to your employees is a major cost of doing business. so here now are some tips that could reduce your small business health costs courtesy of the small business section of about.com. one, keep your employees healthy. wellness programs, health seminars and general fitness events at work not only do

wonders for overall employee morale but they can also be effective cost saving methods. two, reduce coverage. find out what your employees want covered the most and cut out unnecessary programs. it may be unpopular at first but it will lower costs in the long run. three, health savings accounts. these are tax exempt funds that can be used to pay for certain medical expenses. this could help you reduce your cost and get tax breaks for your employees. tower, join a group. plans can cover between two to 50 employees. an added benefit, the larger your party, the lower your premiums. and, number five, shop around. health insurance is a huge industry so do your research. with a little digging, you'll be able to find a good and cost effective plan for your small business. still to come, we answer

your small business questions about getting customers to accept you as you expand your brand and finding a good mentor. and forget about chocolate bunnies. this candy company found success with their giant gummy bears by growing slow. ♪ i want candy we've all had those moments. when you lost the thing you can't believe you lost. when what you just bought, just broke. or when you have a little trouble a long way from home... as an american express cardmember you can expect some help. but what you might not expect, is you can get all this with a prepaid card. spends like cash. feels like membership.

here's a story to warm the heart of the easter bunny this weekend. the creators of the world's largest gummy bears have a dilemma. they got so many phone calls and e-mails about their giant gummy collection that they actually had to turn some potential customers at least temporarily down. like the tale of the tortoise and the hare growing slow and steady may actually win the race. >> honestly, it was sort of born out of desperation. the whole thing kind of started as a joke. >> the world's largest gummy bear was only suppose d to be a stunt. >> the first ones were made literally in my apartment. >> but the gag gift derek lawson made for his brother has since piqued the interest of millions. >> we started out by making one, selling one. we took that money and made two. took that money and made four.

now it's grown to the point we can make upwards of 3,000 a day. >> weighing five pound and standing almost a foot tall, the world's largest gummy bear which calls raleigh, north carolina, home, certainly lives up to its name. lawson and business partner michael horowicz launched their company ggb of raleigh in 2007 with the world's largest gummy bear as their signature item. since then revenue has surpassed a million dollars a year and the number of year-round employees is at about 20. while the majority of businesses wholesale, anyone can buy the bears online. they can also check out the company's own laboratory at candy store in raleigh. >> we test out flavors. we test out the unique things that we bring to market and we see what people are saying about it. >> despite their success lawson and horowicz are staying grounded. they're focused on a grow slow approach to business. >> the only mistake we could make would be to grow faster than the demand. >> while demand for giant gummy bears, giant gummy worms, and

other assorted gummy products is consistently high, lawson believes that growing the company slowly is actually good business. the partners have put in a few provisions in place to moderate growth. >> as we take take on more busi we want to make sure that we can handle the business that continues to grow behind us. >> reporter: first up, lawon and horowitz put their existing customers first. >> we've always felt as we've grown a tremendous loyalty to the people who have been with us since we've grown. >> and production is always paced. >> we make the world's largest gummi bears, we make them for demand. if demand diminishes then in all likelihood the world's largest gummy worm needs more attention. >> they have also learned to say not now to certain customers. >> you can't say. just because you can do it doesn't mean you should. >> reporter: just because a client may be told not now, it doesn't mean they will never get their gummies. >> we're really pleased that for

the most part, and we've had some of the people that we've said no to who are now our customers so we've come back around and picked them up. they are at the front of the line, you know. we're always looking to make sure that we can bring the next one in. >> another key part of lawson and horowitz's strategy is not taking money from investors. >> just a comfort zone. something that i'm comfortable with. it would have been easy to go out, and we've been extended offers for loans or to take investment monies. we've so far turned that down because in a way you can't plan for and build an infrastructure for something you're still writing the book on. >> with many chapters of the world's largest gummi bears to be written it still gets top billing. a formula that could treat ggb of raleigh to an even sweeter success. >> time now to answer some of your business questions, and mike and colleen are with us to answer them. the first one is about -- you

guys excited about this? >> we're fired up. >> bring it on. >> retirement, planning for retirement. okay. that's our first question. >> all right. >> with my pending retirement, is there a formula i should use in how much money i should take out of the company for my retirement, and how much i should retain for the future of the company? >> that's such a great question, right, because the balance switches. when you're young and you're starting up, you really want to invest in your company, that's your future. as you get older your retirement is your future. i don't think there's a formula there. >> kind of a loaded question, but there is away to get a lot of money, selling business. all of the time should be invested in making this business ready for sale. i would take the revenue i'm generating and not pocket it but position it so it can run independently of her and that's the best way to sell the company. >> always such a challenge, and that's why i think people should work with professionals and forecasts planners. not something we can answer in 30 seconds and, you know, your needs vary so much in

retirement, depending on your health, how long you live, and it sounds like she has a company that she maybe wants to step away from but allow to continue running that might be a source of income for her and her retirement, and that's sort of a whole other ball of wax, and it's something that i think she really needs to think about whether she might want to sell it instead and have that lump sum that she can use towards her re retirement. it's hard to retire and step away from that company. for a number of reasons you might want to be involved. there could be any sorts of things that could happen. we could have another recession where all of a sudden that kind of steady stream of income that you want is no longer there >> moving on to the next one, it's about managing expectations and expansion. >> as an established brand that wants to grow into new areas, how do you escape people's expectations of you and introduce new lines into the

marketplace? >> this is a tricky one, right? you are known for making golf balls, and suddenly you want to make umbrellas, so how -- how do you get people to think of you as not the golf ball person? >> that is a good question. well, i think introducing new product lines in general, especially it sounds like the name of her company is knock knock so she might be in the retail industry. introducing new product lines is the lifeblood of the retail industry. i think if people are confused as to why you're introducing a certain product that's where you have to do your homework and talk to your customers and explain why you're coming out with this new product and what it does and you have to make sure your sales people know the story behind it and tell what this is all about. your retailers need to know this, too. >> get this with services, too. someone is maybe a closet organizer and they suddenly want to give tax advise or something. >> thanks for throwing me the hard one, j.j. >> you have two discreet ideas

or products, how do you wring them together. >> congruency. when you have this closet to tax thing that you threw at me here, in that case you do what's called a knockoff, a knockoff for knock knock, a knock knock knockoff, they opened two competing businesses, but the customers didn't know it was the same owner. >> next is getting advice for running your business. >> how do i find a business mentor or adviser to work with to help me develop my company and answer those difficult challenging questions that maybe a board of directors might answer but as a small business you want to be able to go outside your company and get the question answered? >> you think there's all kinds of advice out there. someone has to be invested to not give you a quick answer and

not just walk away. they have to care about your business. >> i'm jumping on this one. let me. teacher, teacher. this is what changed my business life permanently. i joined a group. i'm in entrepreneurs organization new jersey, a peer advisory group. everyone there is in the same stage of the business and trying to grow to the next level but come from non-competitive industries, a very supportive group and the insights you find are remarkable. >> and something like eo is already formed. you don't have to go figure out who are these people. you just join something. >> they have rules and have process and ways to expand beyond the peer group, too. i suggest everyone joins a mentoring group like eo. >> also there's score. >> score is great. a lot of great general business advice from score. the one of aiat with score is that a lot of companies today are looking for technology and how technology can help them run their business. i think they might have to go to a different place than score. i love that she's asking this

question because all business owners should find a mentor out there. entrepreneur, eo is a great group, a woman business owner. there are tremendous resources for her, savor the success, make a million. go to those events. find other business owners, maybe establish business owners who are local who want to give back and who want to work with others. >> i have a group of six business owners. whenever i have a question, send a question to all six of them, give me something very simple with health insurance, simple questions that require thought and want to know what other people are doing. amazing to have a sounding board. what did you do with this? >> a lot of business owners say they feel very alone, can be a lonely endeavor being in business with each other so it makes you feel like you're part of the group. >> thanks for all of this advice, you guys and your enthusiasm. >> another high five. we rocked it. >> you did. >> and if any of you out there have a question for our experts, all you have to do is go to our website.

the website is openforum.com/yourbusiness. once you get there hit the ask the show link to submit your question. or if you'd rather e-mail us your questions and your comments to yourbusine@msnbc.com. do you find yourself spending hours behind a computer screen and then be surprised about how little you get during the work day. resc rescuetime.com tracks your everyday work activity on the computer without you having to do a thing. the gather data will show you a breakdown of how you spend your day and some suggestions of ways to use more time more efficiently. also, if you need to focus on a very important task, you can ask to have all distracting websites blocked for a small amount of time. to learn more about today's show, click on our wednesday i. it's openforum.com/yourbusiness. you'll find all of today's

segments plus web exclusive content with more information to watch your business grow. follow us on twitter. it's @msnbc/yourbis. next week, what do you do when the big names of real estate move into your smalltown market? small business owners in aspen, colorado have several natural advantages when it comes to attracting and holding on to customers. we'll tell you how these independents have managed to hold their own against the big guys. until then, i'm j.j. ramberg, and, remember, we make your business, our business. we've all had those moments. when you lost the thing you can't believe you lost. when what you just bought, just broke. or when you have a little trouble