>> and it shouldn't be about luck. >> very important look for anyone with addiction in the families, "clean" by david sheff. thank you, david. hillary clinton. it's about time. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. let me start tonight with this. i remember when general eisenhower ran for president. i was sitting in a movie theater. my dad was sitting to my right. is he president, i asked, about to get on a plane? no, dad said, but he will be. nobody outside of incumbent presidents and not even some of them has in all the years since enjoyed such a commanding position going into a presidential cycle as hillary clinton. the number one reason is that her candidacy would be not just a campaign, but in a very

powerful way, a movement. she is the world's most celebrated woman leader by far. she has made women issues an important part of her agenda and she, hillary clinton, came close to winning the nomination five years ago. many followers are still out there, more committed than ever she'll win it this time. let me add an obvious. there are many women my age and older who have spent their lives voting for men of uneven quality, uneven character, uneven greatness, waiting to put a woman in the white house as president of the united states. for them, after the big delay of 2008, their rallying cry perhaps not even spelled out, deeply felt, deeply shared, deeply passionate can be summed up in three words, it's about time. i know a woman should be saying this, but not me, but politics is my business. if i didn't know all this in the air right now, i would have to be completely out of it. we want hillary is not going to be a resounding call in this country yet. it's going to be heard forever once it starts and going to come

about a lot sooner than 2016. tina brown is an expert on all things. editor in chief of "the daily beast" and "newsweek" and holding the annual women in the summit this week where hillary clinton will speak on friday. howard fineman is also with me, editorial director at "the huffington post" and msnbc political analyst. tina, dear. >> hello, how are you? >> you got the big get. the big get. you're good at the gets. hillary clinton -- >> we're excited she's coming. you know what, she came last year and the year before so she really is passionate about women in the world. it's terrific. >> i thought that she was going to take a breather, go off to the ranch somewhere, have a nice -- enjoy herself, get physically back in shape. rest up. get sleeping again. eating right. the whole thing we all talk about doing when we go from one job to another. it seems to me there's no respite for her. she's going right to the big speeches. she's giving yours. she's going to be visible as heck. front page of "the new york times" today said, "clinton in

transition. keeps opponents and donors frozen." "hillary clinton left the state department nearly two months ago but she still needs a staff to keep up with the considerable business of being hillary clinton. a half dozen work in a tiny corporate space on connecticut avenue down here in washington in what is called her transition office. transition to what? mrs. clinton and her aides have not yet said. the question hovers over her every move and has frozen if place the very early, but some potential candidates, very important presidential maneuvering on the democratic side." back to you, tina. it seems to me this campaign has begun. >> it's very interesting. last year when she spoke at women in the world, she introduced by meryl streep. lincoln center, 2,500 women just got to their feet and they roared. it felt then as if she announced her candidacy then, she could have just taken that show and captured the white house.

when, you know, four years' time, who knows what will happen. there's an enormous ground swell for hillary clinton. whether it can be maintained, don't forget, last time it seemed like it was going to be a shoo-in last time. along came barack obama and captured the exceptionalism hillary had. being the first black president in the end got more traction than being the first woman president. that was in her sense an unlucky thing to happen if she's fit and wants to do it, and if everything being as one thinks it will be, yes, it will be a shoo-in. who knows. >> how about tina brown? do you want her to be president? >> i'd love to see her get it. i'd love to see her get it. i think this woman is so qualified for this role. she's been so superb in so many different roles. who has more experience? who has more wisdom? who has more contacts at this point? this woman is absolutely so well qualified for this job that if she didn't do it, it would be a tremendous loss i think. >> okay. tina brown. hold on there. howard, let me talk -- i think the pilot light's been on in washington right now.

ann lewis has an operation. she's been keeping the records for a long time now. it's a group called no limits. you have an office in "the new york times," rudenberg's piece, another group called the transition office. usually when you have two offices, that's a sign something's going on. just guessing. >> you have the master fund-raiser of the democratic party and close to the clintons saying in that same piece, hold your fire, everybody. you know, that was basically an announcement to everybody who would be a potential hillary donor to just say wait, you know, let's see what's going to happen here. everything she's doing, everything her husband is doing, is certainly designed to keep the option open and to keep the possibilities alive. hillary doing the same-sex marriage video that she talked about. bill clinton deciding whom to endorse or not endorse based on whether -- >> down in kentucky. >> in kentucky. in the los angeles mayor's race. in a maryland democratic house race here.

so they're laying the groundwork for people that they're supporting who will be loyal to them. this year, next year, the year after, if hillary, as expected, ends up running. >> tina, let's go back to the other clinton. bill clinton is the big dog in politics. he goes around state by state my home state of pennsylvania. he decides that altmire is finished because he wouldn't make a decision for hillary. then he went up to kathleen cane who ran for attorney general up there, loves her to death. she gets elected. he's with her. all over the place. chasing after poor bill richardson. he goes out to california and picks the mayor's race in a primary. he is like the late jim farley. the big democratic boss going around the country. it seems to me there's only one purpose for all of this. her. >> there's no doubt bill clinton would love her to run. i mean, he believes she should have got it last time. he's passionately behind her. he's making sure the options are oiled, ready to go and in place.

i do think it's genuine. i don't think she's being coy, that she hasn't yet made her decision. she is extraordinarily passionate about her entire -- >> why can you say that, tina? can you report anything on that? can you give me hard reporting why she wouldn't run for president? >> i've been told by enough people who do know hillary very, very well, that she is still waiting to see whether she really wants to do it. it's a time-out. she went through it. don't forget, she had that brutal year running. nobody knows more than hillary having lived with this campaign every single time with her husband and gone through it. the absolute brutality of it, how nothing is a given, nothing is a shoo-in, she's going to have to fight as hard as anybody did. things changed. the whole world has blown up and changed and rearranged. >> don't you think people make up their minds about their life sometime in their teens? hillary clinton when she was at wesleyan, and gave a spellbounder of a speech.

it was back before the '92, race, '91. she gave the big speech followed up by bill clinton. she was running as leader of the that ticket in ways. i think she's been running since wesleyan. >> both she and bill were running from the time they were kids, i think. tina is very aware of "vital voices" which is an organization of global women of accomplishment. social advancement around the world. hillary's been very dedicated to that. >> she found it. >> she helped to start. tina is very involved in it. they're having their big event at the kennedy center tomorrow. i mention that because that's very much a part of who hillary is. when she thinks about vital voices and all those women leaders around the world, i think that weighs on the side of her definitely doing this because it's part of her concept of what women need to do in the world.

it's not just about her. it's about her commitment to activism around the world with women. and i think that that also will get her in this race. >> the question at the back of everyone's mind is -- >> can i finish this thought? >> she brought women into every plank of what she was doing in the state department. no question, a hillary presidency, she'd have the biggest bully pulpit in the world to change those issues. no doubt about that. that would bring the focus she knows. there were health issues last year. she's still just a little bit still in hover position. i don't think she's fully, fully committed. we will see. my guess is she will. >> mine, too. let me ask you, tina, about what this means to the vice president. vice president joe biden. it seems to me what she's been doing, this sort of ruffles and flourishes, this preliminary she's doing. she's not hiding. is sending a signal to him she's almost inevitably going to run. i've heard different stories, i can't report them, that he sort of knows that, that he's aware

it's very hard to run against her. he wouldn't probably do it. what do you think position he's in right now? can he even begin a campaign when she might well have a campaign? >> i think he has to wait. i think that he knows that if she's running, there's to point in him going through all of that. i think he won't. so i think he's waiting to see. i think he would support her obviously hugely if he did. i'll be interested to see what she says at our event on friday. she'll talk about her women's agenda. she'll have a captive audience of 2,500 people who care passionally about those issues and this is the place to say it. >> i've never seen anything like this since ike when i was 5 years old or something, in this case, a guy, this case, a woman, is a formidable candidate. biden wouldn't run against her. that's a reasonable assumption. >> if i can put it -- >> what was also interesting, chris, she also kept her policy apparatus in place. she's creating, for instance,

her former chief of staff who was an ambassador for women, she's now going to be heading up the institute for women peace and security at georgetown. hillary is keeping in tact her policy apparatuses with all her supporters deployed in very key positions. >> first she kept them -- she brought them out of the white house and kept them in tact at the state department. and now she's positioning them around town, georgetown, and these various offices and so on. my point about the generational thing, with ike, it was that he represented the world war ii generation. >> he received the nazi surrender. >> yes. but he was the leader of the world war ii generation. after they came home. it made perfect sense to make ike president. in terms of the women's movement around the world, the way hillary views herself as part of it, that's one of the things that's going to get her -- if she has any doubt, that's one of the things -- >> like tina said, she's a river to her people. remember that guy? anthony quinn played him. river to my people.

>> absolutely. >> i think that's what she is. >> there are so many people in a holding position with breath held hoping that she does. that's a fact. all these key people around, you know, the entire political spectrum are just waiting for that sign. there's an awful lot of very powerful women, too, who, by the way, will all step forward as major bundlers for the hillary clinton doning machine. >> okay, well, tina -- >> they will all step forward. >> tina, you're the best. by the way, we have a big news story coming out of our program already. one of the most powerful women in the world, one of the most respected women in the world, tina brown, has endorsed hillary clinton tonight. thank you very much for joining us for that. tina brown. >> i'll get it on -- >> "the daily beast." howard fineman of "the huffington post." coming up, is the republican party at risk of losing culture conservatives? social conservatives like rick santorum and mike huckabee are warning the party now not to get too modern out there, not to tone down on issues like gay marriage and abortion. here's the choice, republicans, go to the middle and alienate the base or stay on right and

alienate everybody else? what will we make of the saber rattling from north korea? that little guy scares me. i don't know what he's up to. he's young, untested and scary. the country's leader is making wild threats and we've responded by sending over b-2 stealth bombers and other military planes that to the area. it's scary. is this all just bluster by the north or something more dangerous? that's the question. in the case of the district attorney down in texas who was shot to death in his home with his wife, the police say his death may be part of a white supremacist plot. this also scary. finally, the desperate case by some on the right that president obama's pastor is a racist. and once again, it's rush limbaugh leading the charge. and this is "hardball." the place for politics. she's stl the one for you - you know it even after all these years. but your erectile dysfunction - you know,that could be a question of blood flow. cialis tadalafil for daily use helps you be ready anytime the moment's right. you can be more confident in your ability to be ready. and the same cialis is the only daily ed tablet

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of president obama along with her uncle the late senator ted kennedy during the 2008 presidential campaign. caroline follows a long list of high-profile ambassadors to japan including former vice president walter mondale, mike mansfield and also howard baker. it's a high-level position. good for her. we'll be right back.

do you see the party ever pivoting or doing a 180 on gay marriage? >> they might. if they do, they're going to lose a large part of their base because evangelicals will take a walk. >> take a walk. welcome back to "hardball." social conservative wing of the republican party is not about to roll over and be ignored. as "politico" reports today they're sick and tired of gop autopsies that point the finger of blame for 2012 losses at them. anyway, culture conservatives like rick santorum and mike huckabee intend to stand firm on social conservative ground. that ground is pretty far to the right. remember rick santorum's comments about contraception when he was running for

president? >> one of the things i will talk about no president has talked about before the dangers of contraception in this country. the whole sexual idea, many in the christian faith have said, that's okay, contraception is okay, it's not okay. >> meanwhile, you have jeb bush at this year's cpac trying to temper the party's image. >> all too often we're associated with being anti everything. way too many people believe republicans are anti-immigrant, anti-woman, anti-science, anti-gay anti-worker and the list goes on and on and on. >> the republican party establishment and social conservatives are girding for a battle between themselves. joy reid, managing editor of the grio. thank you for joining us. hogan, i don't want to start a fight here, but i think there's one brewing her. mike huckabee expressing frustration evangelicals have

with the regular republican party. they've treated us, i guess, like a cheap date. always good for the last-minute prom date. never good enough to marry." those of us who remember high school, men and women both, that's language, a cheap date, late call for a prom. is that the way social conservatives feel about the republican establishment? >> i think so. look, i think for years now they've used that wing of the party, i guess, i'll include myself in that group, to go out and get support, get out the vote, turn out for those social issues. going so far to put gay marriage on the ballot in many states as karl rove so famously did that helped propel george w. bush to presidency. once we get there and once we actually get somebody elected, nothing actually gets accomplished and i think we're tossed aside and now we're left picking up the pieces saying, wait a minute, we were promised all these things and we're getting nothing for our investment. mike huckabee is one of those guys who has been on that side of the social issue for a long time.

he's a former pastor. rick santorum the same way. not a former pastor, but his views on the social issue have been well established. he wasn't afraid to address them. sometimes to his detriment, me being the spokesperson for that campaign, of course. it's where he stood on those issues. someone like mitt romney refused to address them, had a pretty good story to tell on social issues but refused to address them because he wanted to run the campaign on the fiscal issues. he left the conservatives who are focused on social issues on the sidelines, thus they didn't come out and support him like they should have. >> let me go over to joy. it seems to me -- it reminds me of the movie "fatal attraction" where the woman said, who was having the affair with michael douglas, i will not be ignored. you're not going to ignore the fact you've been entangled with me. don't pretend to have a relationship with me and dump me on monday morning. >> george w. bush was elected and re-elected in part on a promise he was going to enact a lot of things social

conservatives dearly wanted. you could say karl rove really did use that base to come out for him in '04 when his election was not as sure, let's just say. one of the things that george w. bush telegraphed he would do for evangelicals was a constitutional amendment banning a gay marriage. he would move action on federal bans on abortion. that he would assemble a supreme court that would overturn roe v. wade. they got nothing for it with a president who probably identified more with them -- >> they got the iraq war. >> that's not what he ran on. >> he played to the very right wing feelings of evangelicals about israel, didn't he? >> that's right. evangelicals were some of the most supportive, even of policies like the detention policy, what we consider the torture policy. evangelicals stuck with george w. bush until the bitter end, got nothing for it. >> they got a war for it. they wanted that war. >> they didn't get the social issues they thought they were going to get moving forward on abortion and gay marriage.

>> i think that's true. hogan, here's the story. i remember when ronald reagan was president and remember every time they had the right to life rally in washington, you may well have attending. he would address them by public address, electronics. hook up some sort of speaker system from the white house. that always carried with me a metaphor. i'm with you sort of, but i'm not really one of you. >> right, look, rick santorum issued an e-mail in support of mitt romney at 1:00 in the morning. i mean, it goes to show you while he wasn't supportive of that, he was giving lip service from a distance. he wasn't in the fight. that's the thing. we have to be in these fights daily as the social conservatives. we expect once we've been promised something to get something for it in return. but look, these social issues, i think, are important. we've got some problems here with a lot of the african-american community, but also with the hispanic community. these issues can be used as hooks to get into these communities and actually have conversation about policy.

the problem is republicans are so far off or have been so far off on immigration reform, on some of the social safety nets that we can't even get into the door to have a conversation about the ways we're similar. instead, we're saddled with the ways we're different. that's been a huge problem for us in the last two presidential election cycles. >> isn't it the culture right that really has a problem with legalizing people who came here illegally, if you will? aren't they the most vociferous in opposing legalization of people who came here from across the border? >> i don't think so. i think the people on the right are focused on the law. we don't want people to be rewarded for breaking the law. >> that's what i just said. >> i'm sorry? >> that's what i just said. they don't want to give these people legality if they came here illegally. >> no, no, they're not against legality, chris. they're against legality without penalty. >> oh. >> they've already broken the law. you can't just let them be citizens. make them go to the back of the line, make them pay the penalty. we should welcome everybody. that's the tenet of christianity, for heaven's

sakes. >> chris, as you just said, there's a cross current between the evangelical right, the tea party, wings that have opposed immigration reform. the most hardline elements of the party. it swims in the same stream. evangelical christians with by some estimates 50% of republican primary voters. to the extent the party looks extreme, a lot of that is due to this base that comes a lot from the christian right. discarding these folks is not an option. i mean, years ago i interviewed matthew staver of the liberty counsel. he said, look, we're at the republican party as long as they're with us. we have an option which is to stay home. it's not as if they have nowhere to go. they're not going to vote democratic. they may not come out. evangelicals do believe it wasn't them who cost mitt romney the election or john mccain the election. in their view of it, those two candidates didn't talk about culture conservative issues and lost because evangelicals stay home. republicans do have some risk.

>> hogan, i don't know if you picked a horse yet, i hope you do because we'd like to have you on to talk about it. who do you think could win the republican nomination with a culturally conservative view, not a libertarian view, but believes we ought to be doing something, restricting abortions, to basically fight history, if you will, on the same-sex marriage front and deal on the issues that are trickery socially. do you think someone like that who's willing to hold the line on the cultural right could be the nominee? who would it be? >> that's a great question. i'm not sure yet. joy brought up a great point. 50% of voters are the most conservative, at least that's what we think. for the last two cycles we put forth moderate candidates, and i think one of the issues here is in that piece that jonathan martin wrote in "politico" which was great, by the way, was the term "self-identified evangelical." yeah, i'm a self-identified billionaire. it doesn't make it so. the true hardcore evangelicals in this party are going to stay focused on the social issues forever, and they will not

deviate from those for anybody or anything and mostly because they believe that their reward is in eternity. losing elections because they don't care about winning elections. they care about the long-term goal. >> i think what hogan just said hits on a point. fact that people in the evangelical right think john mccain and mitt romney are moderates is part of the problem, too. that pew research poll showed the base of the republican party is cleaving away from the rest of the country. on a lot of cultural and social issues, they are staying hard and fast in their positions but the country is moving away from them. >> it's easier to decide between the two parties than it's ever been in my life, by the way. you sit down, decide which party you're in today, it's easy to decide which one you're in now. these issues are really pulverizing. the right wing is making the desperate case now, some people are, that president obama has a pastor problem again. they've said that before. who else but rush limbaugh is the leader of the attack squad? there he is bouncing.

i love that bounce. what is he doing? this is "hardball,". the place for politics.

ha! back to "hardball." now to the sideshow. first, when will they ever learn? sue everhart, georgia's gop chairwoman spoke out against same-sex marriage. here's her quote. "you may be straight as an arrow and have a friend who's straight as an arrow, say you have a great job with government where you have this wonderful health care plan. what would prohibit you from saying you're gay and you all get married and say, they still live separately but you get all the benefits? there's no way this is about equality. to me, it's all about a free ride." that's the head of georgia's republican party, about people pretending to be gay. did you ever think of a man and a woman doing exactly what she just worried about?

also things took a turn for the political yesterday when president obama and his family attended easter surface across lafayette park in st. john's church. the pastor, dr. luis leon called out some of the religious right. "it drives me crazy when the captains of the religious right are always calling people back. for gays to be in the closet, for immigrants to be on their side of the border." now the response from rush limbaugh. in reaction to a caller who said president obama inspired a racist attack from that pastor. >> that's an interesting take that the president inspires it, inspires racism. it may well be the case. so obama's presence inspires this guy to go all divisive, all racist and start jamming on the republicans for wanting blacks in the back of the bus and women back in the kitchen. when he can't name a single person who does. but the president of the united

states, you may be right, may have inspired that in this preacher. >> actually, rushbo, racism is the belief that one race, whites, should rule all others. get your definitions straight. next, there's, of course, no evidence sharia law is infiltrating the state of florida, but lawmakers are pushing a bill that would prevent islamic law from finding its way into american courtrooms. hayes suggest we think of it as a vaccine. >> did your parents have you vaccinated against different diseases? >> yes, sir. >> that was a preemptive gesture on their part which i would hope you're very thankful. this is similar to that. your mom and dad did not want you to get sick from those dreadful diseases. i don't want any american to be in a florida courtroom and be influenced, have their constitutional rights violated by any foreign law. that's it. this is not complicated. >> so why don't we pass laws saying the rule of mars cannot

be applied in, say, florida courtrooms? finally the white house commemorates april fool's day with a special message from the president. >> looks like you were expecting somebody else. april fool's on all you all. i'm a kid president and i hope everyone has a nice day. i made it to the white house. i'm here. think i'm stuck. >> kid president. that's him. made his mark as a youtube sensation. he's apparently risen in the ranks. up next, north korea rattles its weapons again. is there something different this time? you're watching "hardball." the place for politics.

connecticut lawmakers have reached a deal on tough new gun laws and background checks for gun purchases. prosecutors say they will seek the death penalty for james holmes accused of killing people at a colorado movie theater last summer. back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." the tension in the korean peninsula has been rising to scary level the over the past

cup days. it started february 12th. thread to a new round of sanctions at the u.n. on march 7th. north korea on march 7th announced it was canceling the armistice agreement that ended the korean war in '53. united states and washington started flying b-2 stealth bombers over the korean peninsula in what has been seen as a show of force to the north. last week north korea cut off its military hot line, its red phone, if you will, to the south. and on saturday the country announced it was entering a state of war. today the south korean leader promised to deliver a strong response to ending north korean provocation. at the white house, jay carney tried to tamp down concerns about rising tension. >> this pattern of bellicose rhetoric is not new. it is familiar. we take it very seriously. we take prudent measures in response to it. but it is consistent with past behavior.

>> where is all this heading? nbc's jim maceda is in seoul, south korea. they're saying things we can pursue economic advance for his people at the same time they develop nuclear weaponry. that means we don't have, at least in their minds we don't have a lever to punish them if they do. >> reporter: that's right, chris. and we may not have a lever. you know, the big question is whether this guy is insane or whether he is very sane, very rational and knows exactly what he's doing. the south koreans, i tell you, they think it's bluster. they say they've heard this all before. this ratcheting up of pressure, of tension, of rhetoric. which is why this city of seoul, some 10 million people, remain relatively calm. you think about the dmz only 30 miles away. it's going about its business quite normally.

it's always been, chris, extremely unlikely that kim jong-il would launch a full-scale offensive against the south. we're trying to figure out where this is all going. he wouldn't use all of this artillery and missiles and 700,000 soldiers amassed on the border. kim jong-un is a young man. he's naive, but he's not crazy. at least not the experts -- the experts don't think that, the ones we're talking to. they say he wouldn't sacrifice his country in a battle he couldn't win. it's much more likely we could see a smaller strike. something like the torpedo attack in 2010 on the south korean vessel. it killed almost 50 south korean sailors. that's the kind of nightmare scenario. you've got these war games going on for yet another month. we know how much that antagonizes kim jong-un.

so striking a small south korean ship is a real danger. why would he do that? primarily to gain credibility. not just with his people, but also with the military top brass. he only came up two years ago, and these are the kinds of things, these semi wars or virtual wars that do wonders for strong men like kim. by the way, a number of sources here were holding their breath over the past few days, but they're now telling us that the crisis, at least they think, has crested. that it's already behind us. back to you. >> okay. jim maceda in seoul. joining us, ben, he worked for the national security council under president obama. let's get to the heart of this thing. why is he doing it? what's the danger to us? >> sure. i think when we look at issues like this and scenarios like this, we look at a couple different things. timing, audience, and context. the north koreans have had a knack for landing big events on holidays. this is not being taken as an april fool's joke. the u.s. demonstrated, the government demonstrated, we can

see that within the next few weeks of exercises that are going on because our commitment is strong to japan, to korea, and to the region. as to why he's doing this, obviously there are a lot of people trying to delve into the mind of this young leader. let's keep in mind he's meeting with his own parliamentary assembly, if you will, as real or facade as that might be. >> about as real as independence in that army over there. i've never seen a country with more robots. everybody smiles the same way, march the same way, move their hands the same way, move their bodies the same way just as long as this guy is watching. >> this touches on the real tragedy, chris, as you know, in north korea. with this military-first philosophy, all these resources that otherwise would go to the development of their own people are going to the military. >> why do they have a military? >> they built up this scenario where the world is against them, and, of course, this dates back to the -- >> who would want north korea? i'm just being sarcastic.

why would anybody want to invade that country? >> at the end of the day, this is this mythos that the father and grandfather built up. as such, look at the messaging he's giving his new people, his new administration. >> let's talk about us. >> sure. >> back in 1950, his grandfather made a mistake of attacking the south. of course, they got them back to the very tip of the peninsula. it looked very bad for south korea. we came in there because of the landing on the macarthur, we threw them back up. we pushed too far, we brought the chinese in. it's a series of unintended realities. first of all, they attacked. then the chinese attacked. every time we were off base. that's my fear. how to we read this guy to his benefit? how do we know it's time to scare him back into his box if we can do that? >> let's look at what we do know and what has been done. the president, tom donovan, have been making this very clear.

we need to shore up our alliances in the region. these exercises, every spring, the north koreans know this, you touched on, as did jim, the assets in that region. the other thing that has happened which is important to remember is the passage, unanimously, including china of resolution 2094 at the u.n. last month or the month before which tightens even more, not only sanctions in general, but really goes after the means through which proliferation could occur, smuggling can occur, luxury goods get to north korea. this is the way -- >> unfortunately, we've already done that and he's still threatening. >> there's a difference, of course, as you know, between threats. >> my big fear is he's going to paint himself into a corner where he has to be as bellicose as he sounds, as dangerous as he sounds. he's not gives himself a way to escape which scares me. we have to go. i hope we don't have to have you back because that means there's trouble. we'll have you back for other reasons. thank you, ben chang. up next, it's a murder

mystery in texas. a district attorney is found shot to death with his wife. could it be part of a white supremacist plot down there? they already had the assistant d.a. killed. that could have been them, too. this is "hardball." the place for politics. leaning . let's get a recap, merv. [ merv ] thanks, other merv. mr. clean magic eraser extra power was three times faster on permanent marker. elsewhere against dirt, it was a sweep, with scuffed sports equipment... had it coming. grungy phones... oh! super dirty! and grimy car rims... wow! that really works! ...all taking losses. it looks like mr. clean has won everything. the cleaning games are finished? and so are we. okay, but i just took a mortgage out on the cabinet. [ male announcer ] clean more, work less, with the mr. clean magic eraser extra power.

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we're very much on alert. we obviously have some folks who are out to do harm to elected officials so we take that very seriously. we're still in shock. i guess that's the best way to describe our feelings about this latest incident.

>> we're back. texas on high alert right now after another law enforcement official, another d.a. was murdered. mike mclellan and his wife cynthia were found shot and killed in their home over easter weekend and the murders could be part of a white supremacist plot. last year, his office was part of a task force that took part in taking down the leadership of the aryan brotherhood of texas. mark hasse was gunned down getting out of his car at the courthouse. at the time of his death, mclellan september out a warning to the so-called scum. >> i hope the people who did this are watching because we're very confident that we're going to find you, we're going to pull you out of whatever hole you're in. we're going to bring you back and let the people of kaufman county prosecute you to the fullest extent of the law.

>> with me now from kaufman county is nbc news correspondent gabe gutierrez. what is the news today on this terrible case? >> well, hi, chris. well, this afternoon, there's been several developments today. we also saw some stepped up security here at the courthouse. employees that work here at the courthouse were escorted by armed guards inside as they came to work. the d.a.'s office was closed to the public today. this afternoon, we heard from federal law enforcement officials that agents are analyzing these two .33 caliber shell casings found at the scene on saturday. right now, authorities are being very tight-lipped about the investigation and law enforcement officials tell us that's because they have very little to go on at this point. there's a lot of speculation going around. like you mentioned, this could potentially be linked to a white supremacist group. frankly, besides some evidence that is loosely tied together, law enforcement officials haven't confirmed that.

they're not ruling out anything. it could be a white supremacist group, a drug cartel, a copycat, or a lone wolf with a grudge against this prosecutor. they simply don't know. this came to light on saturday when authorities went at 6:45 p.m. and found mike mclellan as well as his wife cynthia at their home. they found them at their home, and they found lots of shell casings there. they were shot multiple times, according to a search warrant affidavit we have just obtained, they were shot multiple times, and also we're also hearing that cell phone tower records of calls make locally are being subpoenas by local authorities. there's a lot of speculation about what this could be but no firm ties just yet and authorities are really trying to go through a lot of different avenues to see how this plays out, chris. >> thank you very much. gabe gutierrez, who is in texas. brian is the director of the center for the study of hate and

extremist in san bernardino. thank you so much for coming back. we always have you on when it's a bad time, but we're lee are again. we have to be aware of what's going on here. what do you piece together? let's not get ahead of our skis, but there was a case, a task leader, we saw his warning, in fact threat, suggested threat to that group, apparently. what has all fit together here? the aryan league and this killing? >> great question, and let's not forget, back in 2005, a federal district court judge had two of her family members killed and initially speculation went to white supremacists when it turned out to be a disgruntled former litigant. here, i think the facts are a little different. let's look at a couple things. mark hasse who was the assistant district attorney who was assassinated on january 21st, that happened the same day that two aryan brotherhood of texas members both 40, pled guilty to

racketeering conspiracy charges in houston. and the kaufman district attorney's office is part of a multi-jurisdictional federally led operation that was huge against the aryan brotherhood of texas that came down in november of 2012. also remember of all the domestic extremist groups, according to the adl, there aryan brotherhood of texas has killed the most people over the last decade or so, we're talking about a very violent group that looks for revenge. we have an ongoing case of which the kaufman district attorney's office was a part of, the smallest part, but a part of. and we also know that abt members live in that county. so this is not just merely blank speculation. there are some pieces of the jigsaw puzzle incomplete that point to abt as the first group perhaps to look at.

>> are they connected to the prisoners you always see from the aryan brotherhood? are those gangs connected to the people inside and outside? >> well, the abt is a related group to the aryan brotherhood. that started in san quentin in california in the 1960s. aryan brotherhood of texas which is independent started in the 1980s and they have been involved in a series of killings. they basically do a few types. mostly internal hits to people who are insubordinate within their organization, but they also do executions and torture. very few hate crimes, though. >> when we return, let me finish with what we've got to fear from north korea. you're watching "hardball," the place for politics. >> announcere

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let me end tonight with this. i think we've got to worry about north korea. there's something wild and unreally going on up there. the new young leader seems to have no idea what he looks like outside the country. just check the haircut. it's what he wants to look like inside that matters to this guy. is he the boss? can he tell the military what to do? is he enough of a deate among the people to intimidate the military that might challenge him? it would be nice to hope he wouldn't go too far to enforce his will. i'm wondering what pressured we can apply without spooking the guy to tell him to demonstrate