dyson. katrina sarandon hufl, editor at the nation, and msnbc contributor patrick murphy. and columnist at the hill and msnbc political analyst, karen finney. kansas congressman tim hul op-ed called the war on motherhood. arguing that redefining marriage to remove parents of both sexes from the equation would further the destruction of the family. it was accompanied by this cartoon showing the signs -- what, and ever, substituted for figure leaves on a man and woman. last week a conservative radio host, rick whiles actually suggested that the north korean nuclear threats are the result of same-sex marriage. and southern baptist convention president fred leuter did anything but rebuke him. >> could our slide into immorality what is unleashing this madman over here in asia to punish us? >> it could be a possibility, man, i'm not that, strong in

prophesy, but i would not be surprised that there's not a connection there. >> no, he's not that strong on prophesy. meanwhile in a reversal of the rob portman effect, arizona congressman ma'am salmon said the fact that his son is gay does not change his view of same-sex marriage. >> i don't support the gay marriage. i'm just not there as far as believing in my heart that we should change 2000 years of social policy in favor of a redefinition of the family. >> herein lies the conundrum for the republican party. as the leadership tries to change brand for purposes of politics, it's running up against the unchanged values of members and constituents, while the rnc autopsy report called on republicans to be more welcoming and inclusive regarding the rights and treatment of gay americans, there are many republicans like those i've talked about who are unwilling

to reconsider their views, even when those views are politically toxic. in iowa, 16 republican state lawmakers are threatening to defund a community college for holding an anti-bullying event. because it's for lgbt youth said we can't give taxpayer dollars to people or groups who pervert the bible and teach our youp to engage in dangerous behavior. on issues like gay rights, these are deeply-held established beliefs. and the base will not evolve overnight. it might not evolve period. and social conservatives argue that they should not need to change. rick santorum told politico, we are not the libertarian party, we're the republican party. if we had candidates in the last two presidential elections who weren't ashamed of the positions they had on these issues and played offense instead of listening to the same people who now want to abandon the issues, we would have been successful. but many lawmakers have, without any shame expressed their

positions. from santorum himself, remember man on dog? to todd legitimate rape aken. or any of virginia transvaginal-probe mandating republicans. these are issues that a growing number of americans find offensive. but since they are a set of values highly unlikely to change any time soon, the question is whether the republican party is willing to leave the people who hold those beliefs behind. and i want to get right to our panel. i'm going to start right with the man who has got the seminary degree, the reverend dr. michael eric dyson. isn't this the big problem for the republican party, we not talking about political positions that the people are taking when you're talking about the republican base, you're talking about their religious beliefs, their doctrine. >> their dogma. >> the republican party is going nowhere if it's asking their base to change, right? >> they're horrible politicians and are worst exegeters of the text. it's rancid, ridiculous,

reactionary, any other big word you can use to show it's out of touch. it's no relationship to jesus. i give three cheers for sin, i see people like this coming to jesus. we've got to come up with a progressive understanding of religion that allows people to be human beings before god. if we say god respects human beings as human beings, regardless of your sexuality, that you're a child of god, that's the fundamental principle of these men are missing, mostly men, but some women are missing. there ain't one biblical verse that refers to sexuality in the bible. that's because jesus knew it was about feeding poor people, it was about resurrecting those who were dead. it was about calling lazarus to come out. maybe god was telling him to come out. lazarus, come out of the closet. the reality is they got to deal with that. >> yes, you were talking with the new testament, a lot of

bible-leaning christians across the board, karen, they are coming from the old testament, where there is overt anti-gay rhetoric or at least that you can interpret to be there. they're saying this is the unchanging bible. we're not going to change just do get some republicans elected. >> here's the problem that i have with that. i always relate this, my mother is white my father's black. i always relate it back to interracial marriage. my own grandfather, who was white, told me that miscegenation of the races was against the rules of god and he said, don't take it personally. and i said i'm a person of course i take it personally. part of the problem very much to what the reverend was saying is that these issues have become personal. we know people who are gays and lesbians. you don't want a child that you know to be bullied simply because you may disagree with gay marriage. but you certainly don't want to see a child beat up. i think part of the challenge for the republican party here is on the one hand they're clinging to this old testament doctrine

and frankly, i would say misreading it, as i felt like my grandfather was misreading the bible there. but also then recognizing that the rest of the world is changing. we don't treat people like that any more. i mean the idea that you know my parents, it was illegal for them to be married 45 years ago sounds crazy to people. 45 years from now the idea that we were treating gays and lesbians like this is going to sound, i pray, crazy. >> before i want to point out, mark kurt, the republican senator from illinois has just become the second republican senator to come out in support of same-sex marriage. joining rob portman. both from swing states. >> the old testament has been misinterpreted as well. the old testament is being misinterpreted. it's mostly about strangers and not being not hostile to those outside of your circle. i wanted to jump that in there. >> i don't have a seminary degree, but i was in altar boy of the year in 1987. so i would say not only is it

unchristian how we're treating our gay brothers and sisters, it's unamerican. because the constitution is very clear -- that we treat everyone equally. that the equal protection clause, that's in two amendments, fifth amendments and the 12th amendment, 14th amend. that's important, but also the fact that it's 48-2, that's mark kirk and rob portman. that's two. there's 48 democrats in the senate, they're fighting the good fight. they're trying to stick up and say we're all equal. there are men and women dying for our country, like they've died for generations for our country, that happen to be gay and they should not in 2013, be treated differently. and it's wrong and it's immoral and if people are out there listening and are quiet about it, they're part of the problem. >> this party is at risk of committing political suicide. it's a values-challenged party. it's lost its way in evolving with the times. it is also the case that 60% of young conservative evangelicals support same-sex marriage. but what i find fascinating is as the party is at war and it's

so delicious to hear the right-wing base attack the elite of the republican party, guerar bowers said something very interesting the other day, threatening the elite. the republican party has been built on two pillars, the corporate business establishment and the christian right christian right base. that base is threatening to pull out and saying to this republican elite -- that you're cut social security, your economic agenda ain't going to go down too well in this country without our wedge issues, which no longer play as wedge issues. >> you've made a good point by gary bowers, the former presidential candidate ant evangelical said if we gave voters an accurate portrayal of our ideas, that we want to cut the growth of social security and the values issues would be more popular than the economic agenda of the current republican party. he points out that this is actually factually true as opposed to maybe the mix of what he said. the republican party is built on an evangelical pillar.

in the exit polls in 2012, mitt romney got 78% of evangelical white, evangelical voters, higher than the percent that democratics got for hispanics and the share of voters that romney got who were white evangelical, 43%. >> here's the problem that base is shrinking and all the rest of us, there's more of us, politically speaking from a plain numbers issue and the other pillar traditionally of the republican party is the business community. you have business leaders coming out and saying we need immigration reform, it's good for business. you know we're for gay rights, because it's good for business. you know so part of the problem i think the republican party is having, this is why it's tough to be a big-tent party. >> it's at war. it's fracturing. >> but i think there are enough, as patrick says there are enough good people who get that this is wrong. but they don't yet have the courage to speak out. this has been the problem in the republican party for the last four, eight years. a lot of these guys knew that a

lot of the stuff that was going on was wrong. but they wouldn't stand up to rush limbaugh. and they wouldn't stand up to raince priebus. >> when i look at what the republican party is doing even in regard to race, immigration and stuff, you're catching up to stuff 50 years ago. you want us to applaud you for saying the civil rights bill is a good thing? come on. the reality is that right now, given what katrina just said, the evangelical piety has another element and tradition, a tradition that says god is on the side of those who are oppressed. there are a lot more people on the side of the people who are oppressed who understand god is, too than those who think that god is for the elite businessman. >> there's a reason that we're seeing not only these anti-women laws in states and women vote, they don't want to go back to the '50s, they want their autonomy to be mothers, in the workforce. look what they're doing with the voter i.d. laws, they know what they're doing. this is not out of the blue, this is calculated, well-funded

campaign to keep the very demographic, which is emerging and rising in the american electorate away from the booth. >> retrenchment is sort of the core of what conservatism is about. sameness of the issues, the culture wars that they're losing on issues of women having their proper place in the home, having children, they're losing on issues of gay marriage what do you do about the core of the republican base? the people who like my huckabee is saying are tired of being left at the altar, tired of being taken to the dance, but not wedded. four million voters karl rove estimated came out for george bush in 2004. these guys didn't used to vote. in the '60s and '50s, very religious people used to stay away from the polls. it's republicans who brought them in, it was a strategic choice to bring in evangelical voters for political purposes, they can't just walk away from them. >> and that's why john kerry lost because of ohio and the evangelicals. look at the young evangelicals, katrina is right, 60% of them

are for marriage equality. 62% of catholics for marriage equality. republican party, against marriage equality. they are wrong on these issues, the problem is they had sowed the seeds of the tea party and now they are fruits of their labor are now coming to roost and that's why they're losing campaign after campaign. and they're not even taking their own advice. when you look at the rnc autopsy that they came out and said we got to reach out to immigrants. what did they do? they called them wetbacks. they got to reach out to women. they banned abortion in north dakota and arkansas. we got to reach out to the lgbt community. let's all be silent when a major supreme court case happened last week. >> losing is going to be proved to be stronger than the love of god. getting locked outside is going to get deeper than any ten commandments or any kind of religious traditions they can put forth. the fact that they're going to be locked out and that they are behind step will prove to be the greatest conversion factor for that republican party. >> and one iron-clad rule we have to establish on the panel, nobody listens to raince priebus, it doesn't matter.

republicans in places like north dakota and arkansas channel their inner bricklayers, building a state-by-state legislative wall to restrict abortion rights, we'll try to deconstruct the war on choice, next on "now."

now that north dakota has passed the nation's most restrictive bans on abortion into law, the fight for a woman's right to choose is heating up at the national level. anti-abortion rights activists are crying victory and pro choice activists are gearing up

for a slew of legal battles, in theed in may have grabbed the headlines, it joins a long list of states testing the limits on abortion rights across the country, here's the trend that's developed over the last few years. a dozen states have now passed legislation banning abortion at or before 20 weeks. 2011 and 2012 saw a record number of anti-abortion restrictions enacted at the state level. and last year alone, 42 states introduced legislation to reduce access to reproductive health care. will north dakota's latest anti-abortion measure survive a legal challenge? probably not. but its defeat isn't likely to spell the end of the crusade. it might have the opposite effect. all over the country, anti-choice groups are targeting states like north dakota with republican-controlled legislatures and gop governors as a way to chip away at a woman's right to choose. "the new york times" editorial board anticipates a long fight, writing bad ideas spread fast in this realm and these kinds of actions show the rising influence of a formerly fringe

element of the anti-abortion movement that is dissatisfied with its side's criminal progress in incrementally curbing abortions. it's anxious to speed a case to the conservative-dominated supreme court. whether or not a truce is reached, the war over choice is certainly not going away. but if the fate of reproductive rights ends up in the supreme court soon, it rests in uncertain hands. and that's something that should make both sides wary. joining the panel of planned parentshood, cecille richards, thank you so much for being here. bob seska wrote an interesting blob post last week. i want to read a bit. he wrote at this point the republicans have all but abandoned the war against privacy in reo v. wade at the federal level. instead they've constructed a legislative berlin wal, holding women hostage to conservative zealots, suffice it to say it's in serious violation of the u.s.

constitution, but republicans don't care. do we really have to worry when republicans, essentially no longer care about the constitutionality of attacking roe, when they're willing to do these things to test the limits this aggressively in red states. >> it's been incredible to see since the november election, was an historic gender gap. the most ever seen in any election. and yet, it's as if the election didn't happen. and certainly what we're seeing state by state, you mentioned north dakota. arkansas, alabama, these are states in which the most aggressive legislation is being passed. against undermining womens' rights. and it's, it seems like you know, it seems like nothing has changed. i think one of the things that's most concerning for planned parenthood as a health care provider is the bills are passing in states where there's very little access for health care for women, anyway. 85% of the counties don't even have an obgyn. so it's going to fall, these kinds of bills are going to fall hardest on women in areas where there's very little health care

access. >> it's a little bit harder for the pro choice side to fight this. it used to be that the anti-abortion movement was characterized by extremism. going to abortion clinic and being intimidated. >> they're doing that, too. >> but that kind of activity, it still happens as you're saying. what's now characterizing the movement are these legal strategies where they go in and first they limit the number of clinics that can operate by passing all of these codes and sort of specific things to make it harder to operate and then they go at trying to have personhood laws, et cetera is. pro choice movement losing because the anti-choice movement has revised and refined its strategy. >> an interesting thing is that i actually believe and we've seen this consistently in polling that support for roe, support for this right that women have had now for 40 years in america, is as strong as ever before. >> seven in ten. >> that's right. and in fact, what the people of america really believe is that decisions about pregnancy should be made by women. and not by politicians.

unfortunately, what we're seeing right now is the residue of the 2010 elections in which the tea party dominated. they dominated certainly in congress. and in state legislatures. and it seems as if there's a fight within the republican party to sort of go back to a traditional republican point of view, which was that government should be out of personal decisions, unfortunately i think some of the most extreme factions of the party are seem to be winning the battle right now in some states. >> karen, is it a concern that this could actually wind up in the supreme court? do we really believe that those five conservatives on the court would uphold roe if they got the chance? >> i don't think they know. i'm a member of naral pro choice and on the national board. i think part of the problem and part of what the pro choice movement has to do is redefine this debate. i think you saw women doing that during the last presidential cycle. when we got to the point we were talking about limiting access to

birth control. wait a minute, you can't treat us like this. at some point there's a values conversation that needs to happen as women being equal citizens in this country. when you take away my access to health care services you're endangering my life. for a lot of women they see this debate in a much more extreme case of rights and also i think we need to remind people it's a legal procedure, we're not talking about women wanting access to something that's illegal. but i do think you know within the conservative movement you've seen there's a debate about whether or not this is the right legal strategy. some want it to get to the supreme court. i think because they want to try to test those limits and see where states rights, where is the limit. >> you know they have four votes probably to overturn. >> some say we would rather continue with our state strategy, we don't want to have to get it to the federal level. we have to fight this on all levels, frankly. >> this is the most aggressive state-by-state strategy we've seen, hundreds of bills going and even when they fail like in mississippi with personhood, they're not stopping, they're

relentless. >> we won the 2012 election. we lost the 2010 and we're paying the price for that. these bills don't come out of the blue, either. there is a group called alec, run by corporate powers that have little use for the rights and privacy of women. the right to make their own decision with partners, ministers. we're seeing that play out. i think we do need as people who represent the majority view in this country, a 50-state strategy, to begin to take back these state legislatures, because that's where the battles are going to be fought. also you have to wonder, in the republican party with all this attention to fiscal rectitude, what in a state like arkansas, which is cash-strapped, is going to cost a lot for that state to defend these bills in court. and what about the money that could go to children's nutrition? to education? where is the pro family nature of that? >> these are states that are cutting that, too. >> absolutely. that's the irony, you see a state like texas, my home state where we have the highest rate

of uninsured women in the country. rick perry, two years ago, the legislature and the governor cut off 160,000 women off of birth control, off of cancer screenings, off of basic health care and that's the irony of all this. it's not only as karen says, it's not only about access to safe and legal abortion, it's about basic access to health care for women. >> and politically, we have to be careful, to the conversation we were just having, this is going to be the tradeoff to conservatives, right, our colleague chuck todd was talking about this yesterday. they're going to say, we won't do the path to citizenship on immigration, but we're going to stand firm on choice. >> because they're going back to the biblical argument again. >> and it's a narrow biblical framework and a distorted biblical lens through which they view. the problem is testosterone-current ric. all the men sitting up there with all the juices flowing through them have no idea what it means. if we're going to use the rob portman analogy.

the truth truth is ain't none of them been pregnant. they have no understanding of this. we can't make the vicious identity politics they're now promoting the basis for our decisions, we must do this because it is the right thing to do. it's a matter of law. it's not, it's not a prerogative that has been generated out of the context of well, it's arbitrary, if we want to do -- no, it's protected and it's legal. i think until men bear the burden, that's why i think the hope is in the senate, all of these women who have been elected, republican and democrat have to forge a coalition to say, as women we must protect this. and this goes beyond party. >> cecille, final thought. is what planned parenthood and what other groups need is a legislative strategy to win back the states? >> that's what we're doing. if you look what happened in the state legislatures, arkansas is is a classic example, where but for a couple of votes we wouldn't be in this situation. that's where it has to be, we have shown when women and men of good conscience vote, they support these issues and they absolutely will not support candidates who want to take away women's rights.

>> thank you so much, cecille richards of planned parenthood. we appreciate you being here. coming up, north korea ratchets up the nuclear rhetoric. how much of the large waj is real threats and how much is bluster. the tough talk from pyongyang, next. welcome to the new new york state. what's the "new" in the new new york? a new property tax cap... dtd rate in 60 years... and a billion dollars in tax breaks and incentives. new opportunities for business. over 250,000 new private sector jobs were created over the last two years. and 17 straight months of job growth. with the most private sector jobs ever. lower taxes, new incentives, new jobs, now that's news. to grow or start your business in the new new york visit thenewny.com

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moon, the u.n. secretary-general, today said look, nuclear threats are not a game and called for goegss and dialogue. with everything going on in korea right now, it's important to emphasize that u.s. intelligence and military sees no movement on the part of north korean forces to mobilize any forces and no threats of attack appear imminent, joy. >> thank you so much, to nbc news's jim miklaszewski. and after the break, few pundits and progosticators can mention 2016 without bringing up the name, skris christie, but the new jersey governor has a few pressing matters in his own state to attend to, first. we'll talk about christie the governor and christie, the would-be national candidate, next. i'm telling you right now, the girl back at home would absolutely not have taken a zip line in the jungle.

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if you were re-elected and had to campaign for 2016, would you do that to the people of new jersey? would they let you do that? >> i think everybody understands, that if you see something you think you can do and you can do it well, that people give you an opportunity, a fair opportunity to do it i'm nowhere near making that decision yet at all. i think anybody who tries to plan in politics that far in advance is crazy. >> that was chris christie doing the obligatory 2016 denial dance on letterman in february. the new jersey governor has plenty more dancing to do. christie won plaud its from new jersey for his handling of hurricane sandy. his embrace of president obama at the end of the 2012 election and the subsequent tongue-lashing he gave house gop leaders left a sour taste in the mouth of being national republicans. now christie, whose 70% approval rating in his home state is the envy of republicans everywhere, is about to see the support tested as he embarks on his

re-election campaign against democratic state senator barbara buono. with the governor eyeing a 2016 run, on several issue ool he'll be forced to choose between two electorates, new jerseyens and republican primary voters nationwide. the "daily beast" wrote about it, noting that when it comes to upcoming marriage equality and gun control legislation, what blue new jersey favors might sink him with voters in 2016. joining us to discuss the record, state senator barbara buono. your race is in 2013. people didn't mishear that, it is happening this november. >> it is. >> the big question of the hour obviously is can you beat chris christie. he's obviously got a tremendous lead. his fundraising just to put that up, he's already raised $2.1 million as of the last fundraising cycle. you've raised $215,000. he's got fundraising advantage, a 70% approval rating. can you beat him?

and if so how would you do it? >> what the numbers don't show is that new jersey has a very generous matching fund program. we're well over $1 million that we've raised. can i beat chris christie? i wouldn't be running if i didn't think i could. this governor's numbers are artificially inflated as a result of the handling of sandy. when you drill down into the issues that will drive people to the polls, pocketbook issues like taxes, jobs, new jersey has the fifth highest unemployment rate in the nation, higher than it was a year ago, his record speaks for itself. rhetorical flourishes aside. and new jerseyens are smart, they're going to go to the polls and they're going to vote based on the issues that are going to impact on their families. >> that is a traditional democratic campaign, jobs, jobs, jobs and the economy is part of what you have to do is to tie chris christie to the larger brand problems of the republican party. and is there a way to do that based on his record? >> i will tell you that chris

christie is trying to brand himself as a moderate on social issues and he's anything but. all you need to do is look at his record on marriage equality. he's anti-choice. he, he has actually refused tens of millions of federal dollars to support planned parenthood, resulting of a numb of them closing across the state. making it much harder for women to get health care. he's anything but a social moderate. >> not to mention the teacher bashing he's done on tape. >> i'm right across the river in bucks county, new jersey and i look at christie, the money they've put up for conversion therapy on lgbt. he's silent on this. it's not just chris christie, but national republicans in washington, when you only have two of them that come out against or for marriage equality, when basically the whole democrats in the senate are for it -- that's wrong. and i would say historically when you look at this from a political perspective, everyone said that george bush, the first

president george bush after desert storm because we won that war, his re election was going to be easy. yeah, chris christie did a great job with sandy. where is he when it comes to lgbt and choice? and the rubber is going to meet the roads the next few months. >> if i may, he wasn't silent on gay conversion. when he was asked at a press conference, unexpectedly asked a question, where are you on this, he said, i don't don't know enough about it. ha do you need to know? gay and conversion together. i think that speaks loud. >> how do you overcome the tremendous machinery behind him that portrays him as a moderate republican on the one hand, his reaching out to obama? whether that was seen as a negative it came out of cpac, how do you overcome that, senator? >> the facts speak for themselves. he is nothing, he is not a social moderate. his record will speak for himself. we will hold him accountable. you know, he has said and he's trying his best not to talk

about anything but sandy recovery. if i were him and i had his record of failure on the economy and jobs and property taxes, cost of higher education, i would want to talk about anything else but that as well. he said there's nothing else relevant to talk about as governor, just sandy. >> you know what's interesting, too, is, karen -- >> it sounds like a rehashing of 9/11. >> i mean the conundrum for chris christie is fascinating. he has to be moderate enough for new jersey. he has to avoid social issues. so as not to come across like the rest of the republican brand for new jersey. but every time he does that, every time he seems to moderate, every hug for president obama alienates him from his other base, which is potential 2016 primary voters across the country. >> think about you know he's got to worry about the republican primary in 2016 and then a general election. when you talk about the lgbt community and women and those issues in new jersey, he's got to think to himself, i've got this election right here. then i might have to get through a primary.

then i might have to pivot all the way back to get through a general election. and women voters obviously we know came out in record numbers last time. they'll be very important in new jersey as will lgbt voters. how he sort of tries to do that dance, i agree with you, of course he's going to try to keep talking about you know, sandy, sandy. >> all the time. i guess my question to you also, though, is he's sort of developing, like i think the cpac thing played out perfectly for him. he's developing i'm a bit of a maverick. >> i don't think they do their due diligence on him. that was a marriage made in heaven. >> that was the question i have, he's developing this brand nationally, but in the beginning of his term as governor in new jersey, he got a lot of bad press for it because people saw it as something that was limiting his ability to get his job done. because he was so interested in being the tough guy. i'm wondering if you see that as a liability at all for him. >> i think that the real, we saw the real chris christie when he took office. the real chris christie, his comfort zone is to attack, attack, scapegoat and that's

worked well for him. but i think he's tried to reinvent himself as it has had some negative consequences associated with it. >> and senator, just one last question, he's got mark zuckerberg, chris christie does, he's got big dollar fundraisers. has the national democratic party come to your aid? or do they plan to? have you had conversations at a national level, putting money into your race? >> yes. and i will it will you that he may have mark zuckerberg, but i have cory booker. >> super hero. >> and you have twitter! >> and that means that not only will he help you raise money. he will help you if your car gets stuck in a ditch. he can do it all. >> or a burning building. >> save your dog from a tree, whatever it takes. thank you very much to new jersey state senator, barbara buono. when gun legislation stalls in congress, a growing list of states continue to lead the way on reform. we'll discuss the state of mind on the issue just ahead. [ male announcer ] in blind taste tests, even ragu users chose prego.

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the nra announces recommendations for improving school safety and the findings include -- you guessed it, armed guards in schools. we'll discuss gun reforms backward momentum, next. [ engine sputters ] [ dennis ] allstate wants everyone to be protected on the road. whether you're an allstate customer or not. all you have to do is call. [ female announcer ] call and sign up for good hands roadside assistance today. [ dennis ] are you in good hands?

connecticut is leading by example. state lawmakers have agreed on a bill that would represent one of the strictest gun safety laws in the country. it bans high-capacity magazines and creates a registry for magazines grandfathered in. it extends the state's assault weapons ban to include more than 100 more firearms like the ar-15 rifle adam lanza used in the sandy hook massacre and it

creates a registry for people convicted of weapons offenses. a group organized by the nra produced recommendations on school safety and released that report today. former congressman ais a hutchinson announced eight conclusions with the focus on training armed officers and teachers in schools. >> prepared for the first time that i'm aware of, a model training program for selected and designated armed school personnel. the states need to consider changing the law so that it allows the firearm to be carried by school personnel when they go through this model training program. >> hutchinson says the firearms used by school staff could range from side arms to shotguns, to ar-15s. the nra responded to the recommendation saying they need to time to digest the report. they writings we are certain the contribution he is and his team

have made will go a long way to making american schools safer. patrick murphy. i can't -- the nra at this point you have to see as a bad actor. they just want an armed camp in every school, every church, everywhere in america to turn into one giant armed camp. you come from a state that has the second highest membership in the nra, pennsylvania. could you ever see pennsylvania taking the step that connecticut took? can congress just not deal with this, we have to rely on the states? >> it's much more difficult terrain in pennsylvania than connecticut. the nra is shooting blanks on this solution. to think about the tragedy of newtown where you had 20 little kids murdered in their first grade desks and their response is -- armed guards. ar-15s, which didn't work in columbine in columbine that were armed guards, they were uneffective. it's ineffective. and secondly they are pushing back on common-sense gun

regulation. we talked earlier about the republicans. 86% of republicans are for universal background checks. the nra lobby is still against it the nra membership is for background checks and it's like, the nra by the way used to be for background checks before they were against it. >> your former colleagues in congress, how do you pry them apart from the nra? i do see some evidence that the state level democrats at least are being peeled apart from the nra. it's becoming more of a partisan and that was one of their strengths, they were bipartisan. but what is it going to take for members of congress to look at all of these deaths and say okay, let's have a solution. >> there were frustrating as an american citizen to see what's going on. i will tell you that thank goodness we have mayor bloomberg who is a game-changer. mayor bloomberg is putting democrats on notice, it used to be the nra was the only game in town. let me tell you something, i'm going to go to the grave as a broke man, mayor bloomberg said, because i think this issue which is crippling our communities all across america, over 1,000

people have been killed by guns since newtown, over 1,000. it's an epidemic. we need to act. that's why i think the game-changer with michael bloomberg, democrats. by the way it's been effective there have been two u.s. congressmen that have lost democratic primaries because of michael bloomberg, joe garcia, in california and debby halvorsen in illinois. >> is money the only way to stop this? >> we in the media have to stop taking and accepting a as gospel when people like lindsay graham say this proposal is dead on arrival. it cannot be dead on arrival when a majority of americans support it and i have to tell you, i worked in new york city public schools. so this whole fantasy about we're going to arm teachers and put armed guards in schools. it's never going to happen. the liability issues alone -- >> it's a boon to gun manufacturers. >> it's a boon to gun manufacturers and it's a boon to the nra and i think it shows exactly why our system is so broken. >> this fight is not over.

i think it's important to go back to the brady bill fight, the ban on assault weapons and the large-capacity magazines. that fight took five years. we're ahead of that. but those who were involved in that fight in the '90s understood that you weren't going to move quickly in congress and you're certainly not going to move quickly in this congress where they filibustered any meaningful piece of legislation. it's not just bloomberg's money, which is an important force, it's a movement being built. a movement being built to change the national dialogue. >> quick before you go, i wants to announce that president obama will be going to hartford, connecticut on monday. jay carney, the press secretary just announced that. you wanted it make a point about that. >> the center for progress is coming out tomorrow with a 50-state analysis, i'm going to be in the suburbs of philadelphia at a press conference. they're saying if you have weak gun laws you have increased gun violence. so it's time to start protecting your citizens. >> we know who it affects, zero-tolerance policies in schools affect black and brown kids, can you imagine teachers

armed with guns? who is going to bear the brunt of that? the only high-capacity magazine i want is "the nation." >> well done. >> we've already had that issue, right? with young people, particularly black and brown kids, who had issues with school guards, arming the guards i'm not sure makes any sense. >> here's the other piece of this. it shows how broken the system is. when you read story after story that there are plenty of republican members of congress right now today, who know this is the right thing to do, who want to support it. but why won't they? because of the nra, which is part of the why the movement is so critical. and we have to raise the political stakes as you were talking, about on people who will not support these measures. that is the only way to get members of congress it pay attention. >> and the oz behind the curtain, they're not that big of a bully if we're willing to challenge them. >> it's basically a haven for right wing republican operative who is are out of office and gun manufacturers and their lobbyists. we need that movement and we need to understand, how we've already achieved some progress,

responsible gun owners are beginning to separate from the nra because they don't see their interests represent paid group -- >> they're separating but at the same time we can't even get the most basic gun safety legislation through the senate, forget the house. >> some of it is, some of it is back to the states. we're entering an interesting period. back to a different period in this country's history. where the states are either going to be laboratories of democracy, expanding security via good gun safety legislation or depriving period of their security of rights like we see in north dakota and other states, we see in new york state, a good piece of gun legislation. >> not accepting the rhetoric that says such-and-such is dead on arrival this can't happen. >> they reconcile to the significance. >> we could go on about this for another hour, but there is another show that has to air on msnbc. i think you do make a good point, katrina, you almost have to adopt 9 tactics that the aright has on abortion, state by state. thank you so much to michael,

katrina, patrick and karen, they were a hot panel. the lovely alex wagner returns tomorrow and she will be joined by texas congressman joaquin castro, and ezra klein. until then you can follow "now" on twitter. "andrea mitchell reports" is next. i don't like to golf. i love to golf. ♪ [ grunts ] yowza! that's why i eat belvita at breakfast. it's made with delicious ingredients and carefully baked to release steady energy that lasts...

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right now on "andrea mitchell reports" -- going nuclear? north korea ratchets up the rhetoric again. announcing now it will restart a nuclear reactor to bolster its atomic stockpile. as the u.s. navy ship as destroyer capable of shooting down ballistic missiles to the waters off the korean peninsula. >> i think we've got to be very concerned about the provocation, the level of provocation that north korea is engaged in. gun fight -- connecticut now on the verge of passing some of the strictest gun control measures in the nation. while the nra makes their