>> a star studded response. i'm up with the coffee drip. >> we'll return the favor. thanks for that. >> and kolby goodwin on twitter, intensewired. put me to sleep, please. #msbzzz. >> stick with us. this is the perfect way to put you to sleep, kobe. thanks on for watching and good night. "morning joe" begins right now. ♪ >> i want to thank my god. you know, i used to cringe when somebody would say, okay i want to thank my god. it was at that point this is getting uncomfortable but once you really receive god's grace and seen it reflected in others, you cannot stop and stop for a moment and publicly acknowledge that grace and that difference he has made in my life and he is making in so many lives across

this state, across this nation and certainly in this campaign. and while god may be a god of second chances, at tiles, voters are a little bit less forgiving. >> good morning! it's wednesday, april 3rd. welcome to "morning joe." with us on the set we have national affairs editor for new york magazine and mans political analyst john heilemann and washington anchor for bbc world news america but here with us in new york this morning, catty kay. >> god is a voter for second chances but voters are often less forgiving. >> they are tough. >> i'm telling you, man, courses, courses should be taught in the future on like political courses on how to run a campaign, on crisis management, on so many other things. on the way mark sanford ran his campaign. and you know what? it's what you always hear from

crisis management people. get it out there. sit down and talk. tell them everything. i've made no secret of it. i'm, you know -- i've been a good friend of mark's for a very long time. i remember calling him after an a.p. interview he gave when the scandal broke out where he just went there and it seemed like this existential breakdown. i was like, dude! you're supposed to do that in your head! >> right. >> not in front of an a.p. reporter. and he said -- he said, you know what? you know? i'm just going to do -- you know, i'm just going to tell people the truth and they can take it or leave it. >> he let it hang out, for sure. >> when you consider that press conference he had, that meandering press conference that everyone thought was the undoing of everyone to mark sanford where he is today? it's pretty remarkable. >> it's amazing.

>> he was honest about it when he said i fell in love. i was frail and i was human. and people understood it. >> mark sanford one step closer to reclaiming his former congressional seat in south carolina. last night he easily defeated curtis bostic. his former miss rtress and fian were with him. we will speak with mark sanford in an "morning joe" interview. amazing how he seemed to lead this on his own with the truth instead of having lots of people -- how to handle the information. he just put it out there. >> john, what do you think? >> i think he was an extraordinarily popular politician before this happened. as you said, joe, you lean into these things with the famous phrase, hang a lattern on your trouble. you do it and put it out there. in the end this is something

many people could understand. ultimately the guy did not abuse the public trust. he fell in love with somebody outside of his marriage. people can have various moral views about that but a lot of people understand it and seen it happen in their own lives or lives they know and people are honest about things and ask for forgiveness and people tend to give it to them in an american public way. >> willie, what is unbelievable about this is it's in south carolina which is a very conservative state. he did it in sort of the belt buckle of the bible belt. the key was all along he got it out there and the type of guy mark was also, mark is not an emotional guy. mark has always been straightforward. i always tell the story when newt gingrich was threatening. he said are you threatening me? that's funny and then get up and walk. where this was performed, the type of personnel he had, it's pretty amazing story. >> on john's question of abusing

the public trust he will hear from the taxpayer expense going to argentina that is true. but we will hear about mark sanford's troubles and what it means to the potential election. the truth is last night in south carolina overwhelmingly the voters in that district and that primary said they are past it, over it. >> it will be very fun to watch liberals put on the jim and tammy faye baker hat. they become self-righteous and the paragon of family values. >> one thing in south carolina seems like a strange place for this kind of thing to happen. who won in 2012? newt gingrich. >> right. >> even very conservative and very evangelical states. people have a lot of tolerance for human frailty. >> in his case, the low point when he said he was going off

hiking and clearly that is not exactly what he was doing. but it's the idea that he actually -- this was a genuine relationship, he genuinely fell in love with this woman and contrite what he had done to his marriage and wasn't like he had a series of flings with people and there she is. he is is now his fiancee and i think people recognize that. >> that certainly will strike at emotional court. tl there are still things they can ding him on this without being high and mighty. having said that, his record is one to look at given the times that we are living in now and given what is happening in washington. because his record in office was one that was extremely consistent, to say the least. >> during the south carolina primary, i remember mark actually saying -- we had dinner and we sat and talked. he said, you know, my entire

life, i've been focused on public service and i've been focused specifically on the deficit and the debt and entitlement programs and he sat there going, i can't believe i did this to myself. i can't believe i took myself off the playing field at this criminal ti critical time. he is back on it and the issue is even bigger. >> we will be following that and talking to him this morning. certainly should be fascinating. we have new polling out. for the first time ever, "morning joe" has teamed up with merist on the biggest issues facing the country. the poll finds 53% said it was more important to gun laws than gun rights. 44% sided with gun rights. 6 our 10 say gun laws soo should be stricter and 33% say gun laws should stay the way they are.

more people oppose assault weapons ban. 87% support the idea for private sales and for gun shows. >> you go inside the numbers, john heilemann, though. 87% support background checks. we have asia hutchinson we will be talking about a little bit with the nra saying that is a possibility, background checks for individuals is a possibility. but you look at like assault weapon ban at 60% is still a lot but you get inside the numbers and suddenly you see the support really going down for republicans. it's mainly democrats driving that number. it's why it looks like you look at these polls, still pretty consistent from newtown but translating that to real legislation for things other than the background checks, i think, is a pretty far stretch, isn't it? >> i don't think it's a far

stretch at all. it's dead matter. i don't think there is anybody any more who has any hope for anything passing this congress this year that is beyond the background check thing and background checks itself is in peril and i think, you know, people -- there was a lot of emotion around newtown and we talked about this a lot on the show the last three months. a lot of emotion around it. there's a lot of public opinion in favor of the background check thing but always this problem of translating broad public support for these measures into legislation on capitol hill. it's the history of gun control now for 20 years. and probably longer. a and anybody who is sensible about that recognizes this was an uphill fight. i'm not sure. i think some people were overestimated the ease or underestimated the hurdles that gun control advocates would face and now realizing this is a heavy lift from day one on what

happened in newtown. >> the question is, again, can they even get the background checks? as they said, nra, at least one person of the nra is talking about that is a possibility. >> yeah. you can add former congressman asa hutchinson of arkansas who heads the nra task force on gun safety proposals as someone in support of background checks. yesterday he seemed to make concessions on the issue. take a look. >> i'm open to expanding background checks if you can do it in a way that does not infringe upon an individual and make it hard for an individual to transfer to a friend or a neighbor, somebody that if you're in montana and have a casual sale, we don't want to infringe upon those rights either. >> the gun law responded to the comments saying the former congressman was, quote, not speaking for the nra. that is his opinion. >> but, katty, he was stating

publicly what the nra has quietly been considering behind closed doors, which is let's work on the specifics of the background check. we don't want to father to give a background check to his son or a next door neighbor -- but as far as closing gun show loopholes, internet sales loopholes, the nra quietly has been talking about possibly giving members a pass on this. >> yeah. and in the past, they have spoken about it more openly. the question is the hitch is the family members issue whether you can pass a gun on to somebody in your family without passing on the background checks from happening and whether you can buy a gun for somebody else who can't qualify for buying a gun and pass it on to them. >> why are those hard to answer? it does seem remarkab abremarka. gun control advocates and gun

lobby advocates say this kind of thing that would actually prevent some of the homicidal attacks that we see in the country, but this can't get through. there was always this question as john suggest every time this happens, since i've been in the states 16 years, every time there has been a mass killing, there has been a conversation afterwards about gun control and nothing has ever happened. after newtown, we did have that period thinking somebody would be different, particularly on the background check issue and it's extraordinary in the space of three months to see that evaporate and run into so many small hurdles that could derail the whole process. >> i do think ultimately on background checks and gun trafficking we are going to see that pass. i just think -- if not this congress, i think it will pass next congress. but i really do think it's just a matter of time. politicians at the end of the day are politicians. 90/10 issues remain 90/10 issues and this is a 90/10 issue.

>> so many difficulties now. >> what is wrong? >> it's just -- you know, because on the other side, people that would -- people see michael bloomberg and see dianne feinstein and liberals from urban areas and think step one leads to step two and leads to registration and leads to step three, leads to step four. this is something that, again, second amendment supporters have been saying for years. and so i do think the american public is ready, again, for this step. i think in the long run, the nra knows it and i think a lot of people in the gun lobby know it. this is going to happen eventually. the trends are changing. i know you've been saying for 16 years nothing has been happening. you look at the number of gun owners in america now where you're at a third instead of 50%. you look at tueds towards guns.

again, this is -- this debate is happening right now without another mass killing happening. all we have to do is look over the past year and you have to see another mass killing is going to happen and when it happens, you know, i think the nra is going to want to be seen as being responsive to newtown and other issues and for political reasons. i mean, you're smiling, but just for political reasons. there's a reason why wayne lapierre said in 1999 we support background checks. >> more conservative on the issue now than then and after 16 years of mass slaughter. you made the point yesterday and making it now that second amendment advocates whose view if you chip away at the second amendment the camel's nose under the tent, right? >> by the way, let me just say, for the record, that was my position. i remember the brady bill passed in '93 and bill clinton started immediately talking about handguns. you know what i said in '94? there you go.

you give them one thing they talk about another and the supreme court changed that. >> i think the analogous thing on the political side if you're the nra, you see the same possibility in terms of camel's nose under the tent to your political power. the reason they fight on every issue they think and i think clecket collectly, once they start losing there is -- unending winning streak and once you've lost once easier to lose a second time. they are weighing on the one hand, public opinion. and on the other hand, what kind of raw muscle do we have? >> that is rational whether you are the nra or the grocer's manufacturers. whatever you are. if they can give this concession from a position of strength, then suddenly -- you know the

second these -- the second there are background checks, "the new york times" is going to write a story about the nra's diminished power and look what comes next. and everybody is going to be chirping on radio and on tv. oh, the nra, they are coming down now because they conceded on one thing. i think that's a brilliant point. if they can give this concession for strength which i think we all recognize now they are in that position of strength, willie, then those stories aren't written. >> talk about an easy give. as we said yesterday, 90/10 issue. if you're nra or republican in congress this isn't a tossup. it's 90/10. >> asa ain't going i worked at the nra and i think i'm just going to talk how i personally feel! >> if you listen to wayne lapierre argue against background checks it turns to you to be a little flimsy. his biggest argument it's a

nightmare. >> they were battling mark warner coming out gun control. i haven't seen that happen before. we have never seen after previous mass shootings the number of senior politicians with good nra ratings coming out and say now is a time for a rethink and they have still managed, up until now, to have a very strong voice in this conversation and have a very strong voice on capitol hill that is making members on both parties reluctant. >> more now from our "morning joe" marist poll on the economy. 64% say creating jobs could be the top priority for president obama and congress. 33% say fix the deficit first. when it comes to reducing the federal deficit, 35% say we should focus mostly on intrigue revenues.

17% say focus on cutting government spending and president obama edges out congressional republicans by four points when it comes to who has a better approach to deal with the deficit. >> let's go back to the first issue. there is no doubt here that the appetite for deficit reduction is pretty small. >> i think it's interesting reading some of the opinion pieces over the weekend. it just seems like we are still -- they have economists on the left that are still very much not for sort of addressing these issues as firmly as those on the right would. i thought there was more of an equilibrium coming. >> it's very evident.

people, let's not cut more programs. please don't cut my government program. >> doesn't the poll numbers seem to me to seem to reflect the lack of growth that we have in the country and the fact that although unemployment is ticking down, it's only ticking down and if you are somebody who is being out of the work and is worried about how you're going to be reemployed because your skills don't match the future requirements of the economy, you're thinking about education programs, you're thinking about how am i going to get back to work and how is government going to help stimulate growth rather than thinking my priority right now is cutting spending and reducing the deficit. that is the challenge the country faces. we have the seeds of recovery coming up and washington clearly not helping very much but i think for most people, the issue is we still need growth. we still need that. >> we certainly do need growth. you also look inside these numbers. john, no appetite. there is no appetite for cutting spending. it's a 2-1. after we have a meltdown,

everybody is going to say, why weren't we more responsible and why didn't we do -- you know, it's the same thing with the housing bubble. >> i think there is always a greater appetite in the abstract to cut spending when people start to realize what programs are going to get cut. i think katty's point is the right point. the case most people don't think, make a direct connection and not wrong about this to think that in this moment the deficit is the thing that is driving -- that is the problem that the america faces today. most people are focused not on ten years or 20 years in now. we talk about it all the time. most average americans are focused on how am i going to make end's meet the next week, month, year. in that time, what they are looking at is they are looking at stagnant growth and high unemployment and they have been looking at it now five straight years. not been anything to give people any sense of optimism or

encouragement things are heading back into a boom so people are not focused on the abstract portion. they are focused on what can we do in the short term to turn the corner. >> yeah. you see -- you see this story on the front page of "the new york times"? this bribe plot or whatever. a lot of arrows. "the new york times" provides a very helpful chart, right? >> there's numbers and arrows and thought bubbles. >> it's sort of like a diagram you would see in a science class and very helpful. the "new york post" has their own chart. >> different chart. >> chart is not the term i'd use. >> all right. >> it's all about money. i have no idea what went on here. but i'm thinking -- >> which of those two do you understand quicker? >> definitely the "new york post." coming up on "morning joe," we will have an exclusive interview with former governor

mark sanford following his big runoff win last night. we will see if he gets a "morning joe" bump. >> a huge one. >> heading into his matchup against elizabeth colbert bush. boone pickens will be here to weigh in on the keystone pipeline project and the arkansas oil spill. actor robert redford will join us and bubba watson, see if he gets a haircut. first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. can you believe yesterday in syracuse, new york, it snowed 10 inches? ridiculous. lake-effect snow with the cold air blowing over the water what you get. that is a good reason why we are dealing with such cold conditions out there. there is still a big snow pack up in canada. the windchills are still plaguing us. in the 20s from chicago to

boston to new york. still can't put the winter clothes away quite yet! probably won't be until the middle of next week until we see warm air for the eastern seaboard. a few snow showers towards the cat skills. the big cities fine and cold chilly start but when you get the sun the afternoon should be okay. airports no problem but blustery and windy. the worst travel on i-10 from pensacola to new orleans area all the way almost into houston, soaking rains this morning. these will continue across interstate 20 throughout the afternoon and eventually tonight into the atlanta area. as far as new orleans goes, the worse travel in the morning, by far, is in southern louisiana. may see 1 to 2 inches of rain from jacksonville to tampa the next couple of days and move up the east coast thursday night into friday. especially around washington, d.c. and virginia your rain comes friday morning. once again, we sit here and wait

with this cold air in place across the northern half of the country. looks like the middle of next week, areas as far north as new york city should be somewhere near 70 degrees. you're watching "morning joe." we are brewed by starbucks. ♪ how does it feel new car! hey! [squeals] ♪ [ewh!] [baby crying] the great thing about a subaru is you don't have to put up with that new car smell for long. introducing the versatile, all-new subaru forester. love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. ♪

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called the jon stewart of egypt. tweeted out a ling of -- egyptian officials responded on twitter writing it is inappropriate to engage in such negative political propaganda. >> "wall street journal" go ahead to use social media to broadcast market related news. they valued sites like twitter and facebook noting their relevance in, quote, contemporary market relations. >> from the observation deck of one world trade center in lower manhattan. once complete the 104-story skyscraper the tallest in new york america and third tallest in the world. it will open to the public in

2015 and we are looking at live pictures coming in of the skyscraper as the sun comes up over new york. >> good looking picture. hollywood reporter jimmy fall fallon's will be the front-runner to take over "the tonight show" for jay leno whose contract expires in september. mayor corey booker could face a tough run for senate because of newark's issue like high murder rate and 15% unemployment. quote, booker's race. >> sort of been -- kind of been a narrative there. is that fair to say? >> what is wrong with tweeting?

he likes to be in touch with his twitter following. i know people like that. let's do a little poe litli should we? >> it's@mikeallen. >> i told you. there he is! >> looks like we are leading with hillary again in the politico playbook. last night the former secretary of state made one of his first major speeches since leaving the state department. what was the event and was this beginning of something, dare i ask, mike allen? >> yes, it is. we had been told that secretary clinton would be away for six months resting up but she was back last night already. politico's said she had shorter hair and didn't have the glasses and at the kennedy opera hall and honoring some people know was in the white house with

hillary clinton and worked at the state department and called vital voices. vice president biden was also there. outside, she was greeted with ready for hillary signs. a couple of hundred people. inside, a standing ovation and even vice president biden recognized that he was being overshadow at the event, said there's no woman like hillary clinton. >> mike, it's john heilemann here. you're giving a lot of space to hillary the last couple of days. >> wait a minute! pot, kettle? excuse me? >> i was curious about what your view is about when she needs to decide. there has always -- chthey will take a year. what is your over/under when she needs to make up her mind? >> she can wait a good long time longer than anybody. equivalent of jeb bush on the republican side who can also wait because the money will be

there. we are seeing in the last couple of days we are seeing that the visible signs are going to come quickly. there is already organizing going on. there is already people who would be likely staffers for her who are out there. the shape of a campaign is coming together even faster than we might have thought. she can play coy as long as she wants. does that comport with your sense of things? >> it does, although i think this issue that you guys have written about in terms of -- there is a lot of pressure from donors for her to make up her mind and say something definitive because all of these donors are frozen until she decides and they are not going be willing to wait for much i thought past the summer or early next fall. >> mike, if you had to put your vast politico fortune some way, which way would you put it at the moment? >> both secretary clinton and vice president biden will build campaign organizations and see where they are. this is a way to test their support and all of the signs so far have been the support will be there for secretary clinton

and i can tell you republicans are afraid of her. republicans think they have much worse chances. they talk about their race on their side being if hillary doesn't run and then republicans have a chance. you hear a lot of that around town. >> thank you, mike. good luck with that twitter following. coming up, did you see this video? controversy at rutgers. the null released video shows the head coach of the men's basketball team yelling ugly slurs and physically throwing his players around during practice. guess what? he was just suspended three games. what is going on at rutgers? more when we come back. it's not what you think. it's a phoenix with 4 wheels. it's a hawk with night vision goggles. it's marching to the beat of a different drum.

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♪ it's unbelievable! it's just unfair. come on. >> joining us now it says here msnbc contributor mike barnicle. very formal introduction. >> proud skittles eater! >> is that what you want the lead in your obituary? msnbc contributor? >> why are you talking about obituaries? >> down the road. >> we are starting to get in the planning mode. >> no. >> so, willie, i heard you say

rutgers. rutgers! more like nutgers. there you go so says the "new york post." it is "the post." >> this story is unbelievable. >> this is unbelievable. crazy. >> big controversy surrounding the rutgers men's head coach mike rice in serious hot water after null released video shows him physically and verbally abusing his players. espn outside the lines aired this video of rice shoving players during practice and throwing basketballs at them from close range. he can also be heard berating his players and using homophobic slurs. dude, they are recording your practice. rutgers athletic director had been given a copy of the tape in late november. he saw it as did the president of the university but they chose nos to fire rice after they saw that tape. >> why? >> instead they suspended the coach three games and fined him

50,000 and ordered him to enter anger management classes. >> talked to everybody in the program and looks at hundreds of hours of practice film to put it into context. nielson to say behavior here not to the rutgers standard. why we handed out the suspensions and everything that came along with that. unfortunate situation. definitely was not an instance i had a line of people out my door concerned about the matter but as soon as we made aware of the fact we dealt with it and mike paid a significant price for it. >> that is the athletic director yesterday but the story that changed now. it has caused the athletic director take a new look at whether or not to let mike rice go. new jersey governor chris christie voicing his disapproval after seeing the tape. lebron james weighing in tweeting if my son played for rutgers or a coach like he would have some real explaining to do

and i'm still going to whoop on him afterwards. come on. >> the problem is right now, willie, if you're the president of rutgers, if you're a trustee of rutrutgers, if you contributo rutge rutgers. you have to look at the a.d. and you saw this tape three months ago and you just suspended him three games? i'm sorry. if somebody lets their 18-year-old son to be treated like that and verbally abused and the athletic director has to have the judgment to look at that situation and immediately call the coach in and fire the coach. now it's the athletic director. i think people need to look at the athletic director. i don't know the guy. maybe he is a great a.d. but he had an opportunity that he blew. i think he now -- people need to start talking about if he survives or not. >> the president of the university and people up the chain at rutgers knew about this in december. >> did they really? everybody knew about it? >> the a.d. had to alert them to it and say we got a situation here. they all agreed because it was, quote, a first offense. >> they are like 18 tapes here

that are cut! the first time offense? >> how many hours on this show over the past several years have we spent discussing bullying in school? bullying can happen on a basketball court with 18 and 19-year-old kids. this guy is a coach, an authoritative figure. this is ridiculous. >> this is a coach doing this to minors. granted, they are college students but it's outrageous abuse of authority you would never tolerate in any other facet of rutgers. if an english professor or any other member of the faculty treated a student who was paying $25,000 a year to go to rutgers this way, people would be fired instantly, right? why can you get away with it on the basketball court if you couldn't get away with it in a sociology class? >> if it goes up to the president, then this problem goes all the way up to the president. there's so many things wrong

with what has happened here. i don't know how the coach was allowed to stay. now i don't know how the a.d. is allowed to stay. and if it goes all the way up to the president of rutgers, the president of rutgers -- we talked about mark sanford and we talked about crisis management. the athletic director has screwed up and had his shot and blew it. the president of the university better get in front of this and why they allowed a coach that was physically and verbally abusing these basketball players, these 18 and 19-year-old kids. where do they let the a.d. direct the basketball coach to stay there? by the way, willie, i think we all have played sports. i had football coaches, 102-degree weather and 99% humidity do some pretty tough things to me and other people. i mean, it's abuse. it was just pure abuse. but guess what? we could handle it. and this case, though, you know

what? if a football coach punches me one time or yanks my helmet and jerks it one time, i'm cool. i can handle it. you do it twice. this is repeated behavior. we have all had crazy ass coaches. we all have. but you know what, though? this is on the highest level. this is a public institution. it's in new jersey. i don't know, willie, how he stays. i don't know how the a.d. stays. >> their instinct in december when they first saw this tape was a suspension. now they have to come back and say now it's public and you know about it we are even more outraged this initially. a bad position for them to be in. this came about because one of the assistant coaches who played in the nba, eric murdoch, he went to the practices and witnessed and he brought the tapes to everybody's attention. he was let go last summer. clearly they made a decision that eric murdoch was the problem and let him go.

>> let the whistle-blower go! >> push them all out! >> throw in an element of corruption into the whole thing. >> chris christie jumped in on the last rutgers scandal about the poor kid who was abused. chris christie needs to get really involved here. i guess quickly, we got to go to a break. but if you're the new york yankees, you love the fact that boris got the hook and jay-z is now in for one of the top players on the yankees who has decided that he is going to stay in new york. talk about that, willie. >> robinson cano was prepared by scott boris perhaps the most aggressive and famous of all sports agent. yesterday, cano jumped boris and went with jay-z's new sports agency that is in partnership with caa. >> just by i think about it. scott boris hammered "the new york times" a couple of days in the context of the a-rod story.

>> this guy for years has been -- boris for years has been -- i mean, he has done great for his clients. i don't know about for baseball. >> he always forgets a couple of clients in his negotiation. kyle lohse who signed with the brewers a week ago and lost a lot of money because boris forgot about him. this is a huge sign for the yankees. huge plus for the yankees. >> we need him. hope so. coming up, chuck todd joins us to break down the brand-new "morning joe" marist polls. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. ♪ take me to the rider take me take me ♪ changing the world is exhausting business.

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when the cherry blossoms come out in washington. i went to a track meet last night. it was supposed to be spring track. it was freezing! all of the girls were freezing. it was horrible. like four hours out in i don't know what. makes them strong. joining from us washington is msnbc chief white house correspondent and political director and host of "the daily rundown." chuck todd. we talked about the numbers when they came out at 6:00 this morning. 60% say gun laws should be more strict but what happens when you read into those numbers? >> you see why this is going nowhere on capitol hill and here is why. if you look at it by party, all right? you say there is an overall majority because overwhelming majority of democrats would like the gun laws be more strict and a majority of independents who would like that. if you look at self-i.d.'d republicans it's literally the other way. it's a majority that do not

believe that gun laws should be more strict. it's a majority of republicans that are not in favor of the assault weapons ban. the only significant place there is significant republican support in line with the rest of democrats and independents is on the issue of expanding background checks and explains why it was the one piece of legislation chuck schumer thought he could get republican support for and all that but now it seems the bill is teetering on the edge of being d.o.a. if a majority of republicans in this poll, guess what? it's not getting through the house. none of this is getting through the house. >> i just -- this is one issue where i usually can try so hard to get in the head of the other side and understand what their point of view is. i don't get this. i don't. must be -- >> it's both depress and embarrassing. >> it's embarrassing. our society, we are supposed to try to make it better every day here. we seem to just want to make

sure that we continue to go the opposite direction. >> chuck, let's go to the other part of the poll. one that surprised me that not that growth is not an important part of our economic challenge when you're talking about reducing the deficit but by 2-1 margin, people are more independence in the job side of things in reducing the deficit and also by 2-1 margin also, americans say let's take care of the deficit by raising taxes instead of cutting spending. there's absolutely no appetite out there right now for cutting spending and i'm just wondering whether the left's push over the past six months to say we don't have a spending problem, we can be reckless on entitlements, we can stick our head in the sand and be grease for the next decade. that is basically the argument.

>> i don't remember that being said. >> that paul kruger and nancy pelosi and people on the left have been making. we got no problem here. everything is fine. i wonder if that message is actually resonating with americans. >> i think it's what is resonating is the connection to job growth. i think what the deficit hawks have not been able to do -- this is bobby jindal's criticism of the republicans saying they are looking like accountants and they are not talking about kitchen table issues. the fact of the matter is what this poll shows you is this is the numbers that the white house is reading. this is why the president always says what he says. we could say it's because he believes this is the right way to lower the deficit but it's also they know that the average american is thinking more about the security of a job, wondering about job creation.

the president's message throws job -- makes job creation a larger part of his message. the republican message on the debt here in washington has not done a good job of connecting it with short-term job creation and the economic anxiety that people feel out there. >> chuck todd, thank you so much. we are going to see you at 9:00 a.m. >> yes, ma'am. >> on "the daily rundown." in the green run walter isakson and bob herbert. more "morning joe" when we come back. ♪ to show you how i really feel ♪ ♪ admit to some of those bad mistakes i've made ♪ but i wa customer thought? describe the first time you met. you brought the flex in... as soon as i met fiona and i was describing the problem we were having with our rear brakes, she immediately triaged the situation, knew exactly what was wrong with it, the car was diagnosed properly, it was fixed correctly i have confidence knowing that if i take to ford it's going to

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look at the picture of kim jong-un putti jong-un. missile trails aiming at hawaii, california, d.c., and, for some reason, austin, texas. >> he is going to blow up austin, texas? what? just trying to get the rest of texas on your side? or -- or did south by southwest reject your indy film "little

miss unshine"? >> welcome back to "morning joe." katty kay is still with us. joining the conversation is walter isakson and distinguished fellow bob herbert. glad to have you all on board this morning. we can can straight into the news. look at this in "the new york times." special deal book section. wall street makes progress but lacks role models at the top. inside it along with our picture of ann in the bank of america an article called sweet of their own. women make up half the work force on wall street but breaking into the high ranks is still a man's sport. women account for 3% of chief executives in finance. the last sentence says women in

finance have to strike a delicate balance between tough and tyrannical. and it says the willingness to do a deal at any costs are rewarded but it's behavior that is admired in men and hated in women. >> same old story. >> this is a really, really complicated chart but i urge you to take a look. >> complicated. go ahead. >> there is one interesting line in there, meek. i pointed out to you earlier one of the quotes from the top wem who say women do funny think work hard and keep their head down and think they will get noticed for it and it doesn't work that way. the men wing it more and don't try to be prepared all the time. >> what are you talking about? >> it was a generalization. >> can i wing it right now? walter comes pop i know we got the scripts but walter comes on.

he talked about going to the new play and it brought up the most fascinating conversation. bob herbert sounding like all of us are getting old. how did it play? >> a character study of mike mclamary and bob was there during the great tabloids hey days of that group who were in that play. it's a story about a guy who really, really wants to be jimmy breslan. it's nora eflon's last play and mike is dying of cancer. you hear sentence after sentence these poignant things like what is life all about? >> bob you were talking about the newsroom back then. you said the reporters all had jugs in their drawer and the bookie was one floor down from the newsroom. >> one flight where the printers were on the sixth floor and newsroom on the seventh floor.

guys still, when i went to daily news, guys still wore hats in the newsroom and nothing but a fog of smoke when it got close to deadline because everybody was still smoking. a wild time. >> you were an editor back then in the tabloid days. one of the themes of the play is aspiration of jaemimmy breslan. >> i haven't seen the play yet. michael wanted more than anything else to be the next jimmy breslan. he had these qualities that were peculiar to himself. he was a genius in a spectacular way and those following had nhis foot steps had a tendency to go off the deep end and in some cases it was tragic, right? >> it's called "lucky guy".

>> tom hanks is pretty good. he'll be successful one day. >> he doesn't wing it. >> he learned his lines. >> this kid has a future. >> on to the news now. mark sanford one step closer to reclaiming his former congressional seat in south carolina last my. he easily defeated curtis bostic by claiming 57% of the vote. the former governor addressed people during his victory speech outside of charleston. >> i want to thank my god. you know, i used to cringe when somebody would say, okay, i want to thank my god. it was at that point, this is getting uncomfortable. but once you've really received god's grace and seen it reflected in others, you cannot stop and stop for a moment and publicly acknowledge that grace and the difference he has made in my life and he is making in so many lives across this state, across this nation and certainly in this campaign.

and while god may be a god of second chances, at times, voters are a little bit less forgiving. >> sanford now faces democrat elizabeth coburn bush in the general election that takes place on may 7th. we will speak with mark sanford coming up in a few minutes and be sending an invitation out to elizabeth colbert bush. >> she has her own show. >> he is campaigning for her, right? he is holding fund-raisers for her. it's going to be a tight race. >> it's going to be "morning joe" versus colbert report. hey, let's talk, watelter, sayi earlier mark sanford, i know mark. he has never talked to a crisis management expert in his life, i'm sure, but he did exactly what the best in the business would tell you which is get it all out there. i remember this rambling interview he gave to an a.p. reporter and said this is what i

am and what i do back when the scandal first broke. i thought he was crazy. it ended up people like him for throwing everything out there and saying i'm a human, i screwed up, i'm frail. >> we certainly sympathize are human beings. people all have their failings. that said, certain thing about his scandal that stick with it like a hiking in the appalachian trails. i think he is going to go down in bartlett's quotation more than in american history for things like that. >> but there are second acts in american life? >> there are second acts. what is interesting you guys have pointed out that he just decided to let it all hang out there for the voters, you know? he didn't like cringe and shrink away or leave it up to his handlers. but also personality in politics really goes a long way. there are certain political figures who could come forward and let it all hang out and get away with it and others who have a different type of character or personality or whatever and they would never get that second

chance. a lot of things at play. >> what is so interesting here, mark doesn't have a flat pemp personality but he is very solid. the national review did something on talk to all of his past employees and they all said, all he did was work. he slept on his couch. he worked around the clock. it was serious. but they all respected him for it. for that sort of guy to get caught up in this sort of scandal, i think you're right. his personality. he was so straightforward and said this is who i am and this is what i did and i think maybe he could survive it more than somebody else. >> you would understand better than i would understand he seems to have a strong connection to the voters down there. there's a bond there that seems to be absolutely genuine. >> i think it's just disconcerting to some political consultants, katty. a "the new york times" article that just talked about following around this campaign he just sat

down, people asked him some very personal questions and he started tearing up. again, that's not normally mark but i think he has bond because i guess he figures i've got nothing to lose. might as well just tell them the truth and it paid off for him. >> he came out of this and wore his heart on his sleeve and it was really his heart he was wearing on his sleeve. it wasn't some kind of serial fling he had with somebody. he had clearly fallen in love with this woman. she is now his fiancee and she was there last night. i do think people responded to the openness with which he said, i fell in love and this is genuine and it's clearly lasting between the two of them. i think that, as you suggest, people are human and people are frail and the way he did it the rawness with which he did it i think made people think -- >> i think he had no choice. >> i think authenticity is the most important characteristic of

politics. >> where this happened, south carolina, newt gingrich. >> where newt won. >> three marriages. >> it shows even in more conservative parts of the country if it's handling a certain way. >> i still think it's going to be a tough race. it's just going to be bruising. he must really, you know, feel that he has something to contribute because it's not going to be like -- i don't think he is going to be treated with kid gloves by elizabeth colbert busch and i think there's some legitimate questions that he'll have to deal with along the way. >> the fact he said he was going off hiking when he wasn't. were there campaign fund issues when he went down to visit her. it wasn't all smoothly done. >> when you look at his record, it's fascinating because we will be talking to him in in a few minutes and address those issues. moving on.

controversy surrounding the rutgers men's basketball coach. he is shown physically and abusing his players. espn aired this video of rice shoving players during practice and throwing basketballs at them from close range. he also can be heard berating his players, using homophobic slurs. what? what? i -- who does this? what the -- >> the question we have been asking this this morning how does the athletic director see this several months ago and allow this guy to remain coach and it apparently went up to the president. if i'm a rutgers trustee, today, i'm calling the president into my office and say tell me why i shouldn't fire you and everybody else. >> i think willie made the essential point. he said, look. they knew about this and gave this guy, you know, this

three-day for crying outloud. when you look what went on it went on repeatedly and he should have been gone like that. rutgers in the position of saying we thought we handled it all right and thought we put it to bed now but now it's out there publicly maybe we need to do something. this guy is going to lose his job it seems pretty obvious. no way for rutgers to come out of this clean in any kind of way. >> no. why he loses his job or whatever only after the video comes out? stupid. >> you have to look at why do you have great college sports programs? you do it to build character and teach things and team work and assess values. if you're not thinking about that all the time, if you're thinking, no, we have the program to have coaches who will brutalize people and teach them bad values you miss the whole point of what a great basketball program should be. >> the same thing that losing the pot line same thing that

happened at penn state for such a very long time on a far more, obviously, insidious level. >> i don't understand why athletic directors and college presidents or anyone who finds out about these egregious things. >> they become slightly above the law. >> thank you walter and herb. ahead four decades ago he starred in "all of the president's men." and now actor robert redford returns to the scene of the crime on nixon's watergate scandal. but, first, former governor mark sanford joins for an exclusive interview next. we will be right back.

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♪ do you believe that a problem of too much debt can be solved with yet more debt? >> no! >> okay. do you believe that we need to get our financial house in order in washington, d.c.? >> yes! >> if you do, then this general election is really important for you! what we're now in is a race wherein there are very stark differences between what this campaign is about and what the conservative message is about and what the republican party is ultimately about and those in this general election. >> that was mark sanford last night after securing the republican nomination for his former congressional seat and he joins us now from charleston, south carolina. great to have you on the show this morning. >> my pleasure. thank you. >> here on set, william f.

buckley, fellow of the national view institute, beckry woodruff and john heilemann and mike barnicle back at the table. >> mark, congratulations. as your long time friend and i know me admitting that public probably does more to hurt your reputation than anything that has happened in your life before so i apologize for that. you know, we talked throughout this process. i remember talking to you during -- i think so 2012. we had dinner and you said i can't believe that i'm not involved in this debate when it is what -- talking about what we fought for so long, which is taking care of the long-term debt, securing america's future. how excited are you this morning you're one step closer getting back into the middle of that battle? >> well, obviously elated. i think the debate of this

civilization. if we don't get our financial house order i think reper suggests for the value the dollar and whatever we have saved today or over the course of the lifetime and incredible repercussions in the american dream and opportunity that it has historically provided. i think this riddle, if you will, in washington, d.c. of how do we get our financial house in order is really one of the great debates of our civilization, because the prospects, if we don't get it right, are really damming and condemning to the american way of life going forward. >> marist had a poll out this morning that showed a lot of americans still don't want to talk about the debt. only 17% say you're going to take care of the long-term debt by reducing spending. it sounds like conservatives. it sounds like deficit hawks like us continue to lose this battle. >> well, to some extent, yes. but, again, i think that as we both know, change occurs from

burning platform. unlike when we were there 20 years ago, the platform is burning. when you take a snapshot of what is going on in cyprus right now and capital controls and people losing money they thought they had in the bank, all of a sudden, this stuff begins to get real and no longer academic when you you look at what happened in greece. we can take a snapshot of other countries around the globe that are basically previewing what would happen to americans if we don't get it right. i do think that there is a level of interest, via nine, 12 groups, move on.org left or right in perspective saying we got a problem out here and beginning to address it and getting real world examples what comes in we don't address it. >> mark, i want to ask you about your campaign and your decision to run actually. because you know what is going to happen with your rival now and she has already relieved a statement saying family in the districts need a representative

they can trust and that you don't represent the values of south carolina and you're going to get it on a number of levels for the personal side of this. so my question is why did you choose to put yourself through this and your kids as well? i can't imagine it was an easy decision, or was it? >> no. it wasn't. you know, i just -- to be honest, with you, a whole lot of fear and trepidation just in human terms before you hop into this particular frying pan, but what happened was about once every thousand years in south carolina, a u.s. senator retires. it doesn't happen. it's a real odd lightning strike but it happened. jim didn't retire. the governor appointed tim scott who used toi sit in the seat i once held with joe. next thing you know a bunch of phone lines light up and a lot of folks saying you ought to do this, you ought to do this. one of the voices was tom davis who i went to college with and

we knew each other a long time. he said, mark, you need to do this. you were talking about debt and deficit and government spending 15 years ago at a time when folks in washington weren't that much focused on it, along with the likes of a joe scarborough. and here's a chance for you to take everything that you learned in congress and your way up and way down and apply it to this great debate we were just talking about. so you do a whole lot of soul-searching. you have a ping-pong match in your gut for a couple of weeks there. and you are fearful. you are frightened. you don't know how you're going to be received. but, ultimately, you make a decision and one of the chief things that i had to do before i made that decision was to sit down, indeed with the boys and say, guys, if you don't want me to do this, i'm not doing this. but ultimately all of them said, dad, you got to do this and you've long cared about this and off to the races we went. >> betsy woodruff with national

review. let's pretend mark is not here and talk about him. there is a battle inside the conservative movement is mark sanford good or not good for conservatives getting this seat. you went back and talked to people who worked with mark before and you called them up. you were, you know, you're expecting to get some negatives about him. the portrait painted far different than what you expected. >> it surprised me. you give people a chance to burn their former bosses, most would be excited about that. all of the staffers who called me back were positive about mark and wasn't something i was looking for. i wasn't asking them question like tell me five nice things about your former boss. i was told he worked really hard and good to his employees and i heard the employs who worked with him was very loyal and the down side was that he expected a lot. >> no doubt about it, he expected a lot, which, of course, nobody on our staff, mike barnicle, would ever say

that about us. >> no, no, absolutely not. >> john heilemann, a question? >> when was the last time a democrat held that seat? >> it's been about 40 years. >> so you'r upcoming opponent relieved polling saying she is ahead of you right now. you held that seat before. i don't know if you believe that polling but most people think it's going to be a very tight race. is there anything beyond the one big controversy in your political life right now that is causing this race to be as close as it is? >> yeah. i mean, you just got to with the 16-person primary. we have been very busy at two different steps, bites of the apple. the first 16 of us and took it down to two and got through the runoff last night, so we have had, you know, our debate as republicans which is to be expected, while she had a clear shot all the way to the democratic nomination in

essence. and so, you know, you've got sort of a difference there. but you also have a difference in she's not held office. you could come up with a whole host of votes for me or joe that people liked or they didn't like. she's not held office. right now, the one thing that people know about him is that she is stephen colbert's sister. well, at the end of the day, stephen colbert is very popular, well-regarded comedian but at the end of the day he is not on the ticket and we will have a debate about ideas and i think when people really begin to digest those ideas where she should be and i would be i think that will substantially change a poll that i think now identifies name and i.d. and not issue i.d. and i think ultimately the debates in campaigns are decided on issues. >> mark, if we can, let's talk about the value of honesty among politicians and in campaigns.

i think a lot of people, no matter where they are in the ideological spectrum were struck by your honesty a few years ago when basically you said you went walking on the appalachian trail but you fell in love. so you're out of public office. so when you make the decision to re-enter the fray, was there any fear of that honesty coming back and playing a perilous role in your political future? >> certainly. you know, at some level, it always will. i mean, at some level, an opponent to any idea i have to espouse will always be able to hit me with appalachian trail or whatever but i'll go back to a sermon that was given at our church two weeks ago and the preacher focused on do the events of your life define or refine your life? i think that for every one of us that are absolutely -- i mean, it candid or real about our lives, we all have events that we regret, that we mishandled

that we wish we could have done better. i would certainly say that with me with regard to the event of 2009. i tried to be transparent in its aftermath and lay the cards on the table. but some people, you know, may never forgive me for that and some people it will take them a bit longer. wherever one is on that continuum i think people recognize this notion of, you know, none of us are perfect. we all have feet of clay and we at times do the best we can in untenable positions of our undoing or larger circumstances around us. i think that people really get this idea of saying, you know, i'm not going to judge you on your worst any more than i'll judge on your best day. i'll look at your whole 20 years in politics or 52 years as a member of this community and make my decisions accordingly. what we saw last night in the republican nomination people gave a verdict of, yes, we appreciate where you've come from. we don't approve of everything you've done in life but give you

a shot at carrying the republican nomination and conservative ideas forward into the general election. i feel it's a blessing and i'm thankful for it. >> before you go, mark sanford, where are the updates and where are pork and barrel? the little pigs? where are they? >> unfortunately, they were barbecued. >> oh! >> unfortunately. i hate to let you in on it. >> we are looking at the video of you walking into the statehouse trying to make the point with two baby pigs. you're going to make me cry because i love pigs! >> by the way, this is why i've always loved mark so much. >> look at him. >> the punch line for me ideologically is that was a republican statehouse he went into. and it was republicans that were spending too much money in the senate and the house and it was republicans who were enraged that mark would actually say i expect the same from republican legislators as i expect from democratic legislators. >> there you go. >> any way. >> mark sanford, congratulations on your big win.

>> hey, mark, congratulations. >> thank you. >> we will talk to you soon. maybe now that you've got through the republican primary, you can be seen in public with me. >> there you go. i don't know. >> hey, before we go to break really quickly, just the guy you look at him. pat buchanan talked about political athletes, just some people have got it. he just does. >> when you're talking to folks that he worked with, did you get a sense that they addressed what happened and how he is dealing with it, or what was the focus of trying to figure out a little bit more about his core? because it was rocked a little bit when he left office. >> yeah, when we talked about the appalachian trail episode what i heard over and over it really surprised people and that they were proud of the way that his viewing from afar from the way his gubernatorial staff handled his second term. >> were you surprised what you heard overall from staff members? >> i was surprised how positive and upbeat people were mostly.

>> there has been a battle inside the conservative movement on whether mark getting the nomination is good for the party or not. he is just -- again, you talk about political athletes. you sit there and listen to him talking. it's not hard to figure out why that guy -- who, by the way, bright, bright guy and he worked on wall street and knows the issues better than anybody that he was running against or running cheap 30-second commercials about him. you can see why a guy like that gets elected. >> he had a great national future before the unfortunate events of a couple of years ago. you look at that guy and saw a potential presidential candidate and he still has the chops. i want to ask mike barnicle one question. when you see those two pigs, do you see short ribs? >> i see a blt! >> coming up, an oil spill in an arkansas neighborhood. we will discuss that with

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baseball season and it was already huge. almost had a perfect game. yu darvish on the hill for the rangers. just getting started last night. fifth inning dealing. darvish hasn't allowed a hit. maxwell. he goes down. through five stays perfect. the last inning two outs, ninth inning. gonzalez, last batter stanthdin between yu darvish. >> five previous no hitters in ranger history. yu darvish looking for number six and the second perfect game. gonzalez up the middle. base hit! marlon gonzalez with a hit. up through the wickets.

>> what a great reaction for him. the smile. seemed genuine. not agony. hey, that's baseball. that's what happens. incredible. >> they take him out. cardinals/d'backs in phoenix. a warning for everyone going to the ball game. going deep. ball going -- hits the woman right in the face! check out the boyfriend! running away from the baseball! oh, man! what are you doing? >> what are you doing? dude! >> the engagement is off. you're afraid of a baseball! >> oh, look at that! >> what his gut red saction was >> don't protect my lady. protect yourself. >> bubba is coming up.

>> but bigger than bubba, boone. bubba watson will be here to tell us everybody want to know about golf and also bubba. great guy. >> we will also talk to boone pickens coming up. we will be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪

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and the revolutionizing. it's enough to make you forget that you're flying five hundred miles an hour on a chair that just became a bed. you see, we're doing some changing of our own. ah, we can talk about it later. we're putting the wonder back into air travel, one innovation at a time. the new american is arriving. ♪ 41 past the hour. here with us now is founder and ceo of bp capital management boone pickens. good to have you on board again this morning. how have you been? >> great. everything is going fine. >> except washington. >> well, there is that. >> i give up. >> have you given up? you tried -- you had the pickens plan. >> i say that and i'm headed right down there this morning. >> you can't give up, can you?

>> hell, no. you're stuck with it. that is the largest group -- i hate to say this but i'm going to -- incompetent people in one place in the world. >> yeah. talk about this effort over the past several years to change the energy landscape in america, going to washington. what have been the biggest lessons for you about why washington doesn't work? >> i spent a hundred million dollars promoting my plan and now, five years, i say i haven't accomplished anything which isn't so. i have accomplished something but no legislation. none. zero. but i have told the story it's a, you know, a cleaner, cheaper, abundant fuel that is produced in the united states. when i started five years ago, people saying he doesn't know what he is talking about.

everybody pretty well agrees now that we have more natural gas than any other place in the world and it's cleaner and cheaper. the only way you can ever get the fuel price down, you say we have got more oil. we do. our industry has done an unbelievable job of adding to our oil production. we are up 2 million barrels the last three years. you say why hasn't the price of gasoline come down? gasoline price is set by opec. they set the price. if you want to bring the price of gasoline down, introduce another fuel, natural gas. and then you'll -- it's cheaper. >> of course, we are awaiting the president's decision on the keystone pipeline. i take it there definitely examples and environmentists have used have happened of late including the oil spill in arkansas that lead some to believe he should reject it. give us a sense of what you

think is going to happen there. >> you have to take the oil, the keystone pipeline. i mean, if you turn it down, it goes west into china. so you say, well, we don't have to have it. we have oil spill in arkansas. we have 175,000 miles of pipeline gathering system product and all in the united states. 175,000. if you look over the last ten years, we have -- our spill is about 100,000 barrels a year. you're talking about -- and they are moving 30 million barrels a day through those lines. we don't use that much but we're transporting sometimes the same oil twice in different directions. so when you look at it, you say, my gosh, the industry has the best safety record of any industry in the world. >> right. >> and you spill, you know, 2,000, 3,000 barrels of oil in arkansas, say my gosh!

we can't have the keystone pipeline. there is no connection to the keystone pipeline. keystone pipeline will move 800,000 barrels a day and we are saps if we don't get it. >> you mentioned the shale gas and jobs created in pennsylvania and factories being opened and cheaper industry it's provided. you're on your way back to washington. what does the industry need still from washington to harness than energy independence as much as we can? >> what is happening and what you should do -- i'll answer that question but if i can lead into it -- you need a north american energy alliance and put together canada, the united states and mexico and they need us, we need them. so you work that. and then that gets you away from opec. when you get away from opec you don't need to have the fifth fleet in the persian gulf. then we can reduce the defense budget and quit getting people

killed in afghanistan. i mean, that's all doable. that's not a dream or silly idea. so here you are -- your question was is that what do i want washington to do? >> yes. it seems like business around the country is rejuvenating. we are seeing so many great signs of recovery. it's almost like they are kind of ignoring washington now. they are doing it despite what people are not doing in washington. >> they are doing it with cheap energy. >> right. >> which is one -- okay. you got the cheapest energy in the world. cheaper on oil and 75% cheaper on natural gas and half the price on gasoline. those are ballpark numbers. but it's -- here you are with the cheapest energy and you can adjust your energy is so cheap you can adjust labor costs that could be lower someplace else and ours higher or something and energy carries the day for you. it's incredible but i never see

anything out of washington that even indicates they know what the hell you're talking about. >> who -- wow. where is the hope in washington in your estimate? are there people that stand out that you think are leaders on this topic? >> i'm still hunting. >> come on! >> well, help me! help me! you're here. you know more about what is going on than i do. >> right. >> oh, my god. >> john heilemann? >> wow. >> who? >> i don't want to presume to speak for boone on the question of who he would find amenable on this question. i do wonder, though, two or three years ago there was the last major push for a big energy bill, energy climate change bill in congress when they tried to do cap and trade, right? there's not been anything really put on the table since then. you talked a lot about energy independence and the stuff you've been talking about today. the energy and climate piece kind of tend to go together and

have gone together a little while. do you see any movement towards a big comprehensive energy possible deal with those points in our near term horizon? >> i don't see anything that does. they have talked about it but nothing in that direction. we tried to put an energy deal together and of all people working together was john kerry and me which would be an unusual -- >> alliance. there you go. >> but he was focused on -- on cap and trade. and i was focused on getting on your own resources. and didn't each get a vote in the senate. but now, can you imagine the keystone pipeline, you know, what department or what agency or whatever in washington is going to make a decision on it? >> what? >> the state department. keystone pipeline.

that's the thing. who in the hell runs energy in america? the state department? that's because it crosses from canada into the united states. so now it's the state department. >> now you can talk to john kerry again. >> boone pickens, thank you very much. >> great to have you. >> sure. >> up next on "morning joe" they are head to shed light on a condition that affects 1 in 50 children. bob and june wright join us to raise awareness for autism. we will be right back with much more "morning joe." ♪ [ kitt ] you know what's impressive?

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bob and suzanne wright with the autism speaks organization ringing the opening bell in honor of autism awareness day. the cofounder of autism speaks, the world's leading advocacy organization. the vice chairman of general electric and former ceo of nbc universal as well. this organization is in your heart. >> in your heart. where are we this year? >> we have 93 countries. we are halfway there to every country in the world participating. we are on seven continents.

we were joined at the haley research center. the international space station and world day. we have over 7,000 iconic buildings and 30 rock is one of them. i got home and there was the tower of pisa in blue. >> oh, wow. >> christ the redeemer. iconic buildings all over the world. this is a global movement and families that are suffering with autism. they had no voice until now. my honorary sorority sister now, all these women raised over $1 million. they were all lit up blue. they understand the power of what we are doing here. autism is facing them and their generation of having children. >> the numbers have exploded over the past 20 years. better recognition.

the one in 50 is getting closer to between 1 in 40 and 1 in 50 is the right number. we have done it and it's 1 in 37. that's very important and helps the awareness. after sandy hook, i thought we had a window there and it turned out to be and even the president said there is parody between gun control and mental health. >> people talk about mental health. >> they don't want to talk about it. >> you talk about it and it's taboo. >> you can't talk about the fact and tell the story all the time and mika and i were driving through times square and we saw the ticker before we knew one child was dead. i told her the kid is going to have this condition and watching violent video games and have access to guns in his house and

every one of those things, you tell that truth and people get angry. it is the last taboo. >> there not 60 votes for anything on this subject. we are like paddling around in a circle. the president now has come out in favor of this brain science initiative which is positive and other people have -- newt gingrich did. the majority leader in the house has come out with a research's first initiative. that's very important. if you can only get momentum, there is more than just the brain. we have 500,000 kids that are going to time out in getting their school benefits and be in the job market. there is no training programs for them. none of that. some couples have initiatives.

the first event that we have in part of this was for the teamsters in boston that kicked off the month of activities. toys are us is the biggest sponsor and dollar general. here it is the teamsters. six years. local 25. this is my honorary teamsters pin. they raised over $2 million. that's a community thing and what we need to see. people are toughing people and trying to deal with kids and emotional problems. it didn't happen at sandy hook. that's a wonderful place that i live close to. no connection between the doctors and the schools and the therapists and the parents and community groups and the kids dealing with the issues. you go to our walks and you don't see the melt downs and the screaming and yelling. there is no judgment going on. everybody knows what the thing is all about and it moves

forward. >> talk briefly if you can about the weight that families with autistic children carry. >> i can speak to that firsthand. it takes a family to raise a child with autism. all of our child live close to katie. the way the family is is enormo enormous. i never have seen a group of families with autism. no medical benefits and the insurance we are fighting state to state to get them insurance so they are covered for therapies. it's an enormous burden. second and third divorces and mortgages to take care of. we can take care of our brain child, but the enormity of the people who couldn't and it's huge. it affects everybody. nobody escapes autism. this is a movement and when i went to the un, you know how hard it was to say yes to world day? there is only two.

every country has to say yes. the women understood they have autism and have to do something about it. we can't afford to have 2% of the population going into autism. >> there is an approximate annual hit. how many families can have $50,000 of annual taxes to cover specialists and special education programs. if you have a more historical disease, you can see it taken care of. these aren't. it's a tremendous -- you have to build awareness and get these things resolved so we can be on an even playing field. thank you very much. we'll be right back. with the spark miles card from capital one, bjorn earns unlimited rewards for his small business. take these bags to room 12 please. [ garth ] bjorn's small business earns double miles on every purchase every day. produce delivery. [ bjorn ] just put it on my spark card. [ garth ] why settle for less? ahh, oh!

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>> they're tough. >> i'm treling you, courses should be taught in the future on political courses on how to run a campaign, crisis management and so many other things. on the way mark sanford ran his campaign. it's what you always hear from crisis management people. get it out there. sit down and talk. tell them everything. i made no create of it. i have been a good friend of mark's for a long time. i remember calling him after an interview he gave where he just

went there and it seemed like an existential break down and i was like dude, you are supposed to do that in your head. >> you consider the press conference that he had that everyone thought was the undoing to where he is today. it's remarkable. >> amazing, but -- >> he said i fell in love. i was frail and human and people understood it. >> mark sanford is one step closer to reclaiming his former congressional seat in south carolina. last night he easily defeated curtis bostick in a run off. we spoke to the former governor of south carolina. my question is, why did you choose to put yourself through this and your kids as well. i can't imagine it was an easy decision. >> it wasn't. i'll be honest with you. a lot of fear and trepidation

before you hop into this particular frying pan. ultimately you make a decision. one of the chief things i had to do was sit down and deal with the boys and say look, if you don't want me to do this, i'm not doing it. ultimately they said you long cared about this and off to the races we went. >> i think he was an extraordinarily popular politician and you lean in with the famous phrase hang a lantern on your troubles. this is something that many people can understand. he did not abuse the public trust. he fell in love outside of his marriage. people can have moral views about that, but a lot of people understand it and have seen it happen in their lives or other people's lives they know. people are honest and ask for forgiveness. >> what's so unbelievable is the

fact that it's in south carolina. it's a very conservative state. he did it in sort of the belt buckle of the bible belt. the key was the type of guy he was also, he's not an emotional guy. he has been straight forward. i have the story of when he was threatening. are you threatening me? that's funny. where this was performed and the type of personality. it's an amazing story. >> he will hear from elizabeth colbert bush on taxpayer expense going to argentina. that's true. we will hear about mark sanfort's troubles. what it could mean to a potential election. last night in south carolina, the voters in that primary decided they were past it. they were over it.

>> it would be fun to watch liberals put on the jim and tammy fay bakker hat where they are so self righteous and the pair gons of virtue and family values. >> remember one thing about south carolina. it seems like a strange place for this to happen, but who won in 2012? >> newt gingrich. >> right. even in evangelical states, people have a lot of tolerance for human frailty. >> the low point when he said he was going off hiking even though that's not what he was doing. this is a genuine relationship and he fell in love with this woman and he was contrite about what he had done. it's not a series of flings with people. she is now his fiance and people recognize that. the honesty about that. >> that the strike an emotional

cord, but his rifle will focus on the responsibility and leaving office. things they can do to still ding him on this without being high and mighty. having said that, his record is to look at given the times that we are living in now and given what's happening in washington. his record in office was one that was extremely consistent to say the least. >> during the primary, i remember mark saying we had dinner and sat and talked. he said my entire life i have been focused on public service. i have been focused specifically on the deficit. the debt. entitlement programs. he sat there going i can't believe i did this to myself and took myself off the playing field. at this critical time. she actually back on it. the issue is even bigger than ever.

>> we have new polling out. "morning joe" has teamed up on the biggest issues facing the country. we have the results. the poll finds that 53% said it was more important to control gun law than to protect gun rights. 44% sided with gun rights. six out of ten people said gun laws should be stricter. 5% said they should be less strict and 33% think gun laws should stay the way they are. when it comes to background checks 87% support the idea for private sales and for gun shows. >> you go inside the numbers. 87% support background checks. we have asa hutchinson saying that's a possibility. background checks and it's a possibility. you look at the weapon ban and 60% is a lot.

you get inside the numbers and you see the support going down for republicans. that's mainly democrats driving that number. you look at the polls and they are consistent from newtown. translating that to real legislation for things other than the background checks is a pretty far stretch. >> it's dead matter. i don't think there is anybody who has hope for anything passing this congress this year that is beyond the background check thing. background checks is in peril and people have a lot of emotion around newtown. there is a lot of emotion and public continue still in favor of the background check and this problem of translating broad public support into legislation on capitol hill. the history of gun control for 20 years. probably longer.

anybody who is sensible about that recognized this was going to be an uphill fight. i'm not sure. i think people were overestimating the ease or the hurdles that gun control advocates would face and they are realizing that this was going to be a heavy lift from day one no matter what happened in newtown. >> yeah. the question is again, can they even get the background checks? the nra is talking about that is a possibility. >> you can add former congressman from arkansas who heads the nr a's task force on gun safety proposal in support of background checks. he seemed to make concessions on the issue. >> i'm open to expanding background checks if you can do it in a way that doesn't infringe on an individual and

make it hard to transfer to a friend or a neighbor. somebody that if you are in montana and have a casual sale, we don't want to infringe upon those rights. >> they responded by saying the former congressman was not speaking for the nra. that's his opinion. >> but he was stating publicly what the nra has quietly been considering behind closed doors which is let's work on the specifics of the background check. we don't want to have to give a background check to his son or a next door neighbor. as far as closing gun show loophol loopholes, they have been talking about giving a pass on this. >> the hitch is the family members issues, whether you can

pass on a gun without background checks and whether you can buy a gun for somebody else who can't themselves qualify for buying a gun and pass it on to them. >> why are those hard? >> for seems remarkable with 90% of the american public supporting tighter background checks and advocates and gun lobby advocates saying this is the kind of thing that prevents some of the homicidal attacks we see, it can't get through. there was always this question as john sugs. every time this happens since i have been in the state 16 years, every time there has been a mass killing, there has been a conversation about gun control and it's nothing that has happened. particularly on the background check issue. it's extraordinary to see that and run into so many small

hurdles that could derail the process. >> ultimately on background check, we will see that path. if not this congress, i think it will pass next congress. i think it's a matter of time. politicians at the end of the day are politicians. 9010 issues remain 9010 issues. >> it's going into so many difficulties now. >> it's just a -- because on the other side people see michael bloomberg and dianne feinstein and liberals and they think step one leads to step two and leads to registration and leads to step four. this is something that again second amendment supporters have been saying for years. i think the american public is ready for this step.

the nra knows it and a lot of people in the gun lobby about it. this will happen eventually. the trends are changing. i know you have been saying for 16 years nothing has been happening. you look at the number of gun owners where you are at 13 instead of 50%. gun attitudes. this debate is happening right now without another mass killing happening. all we have to do is look over the past year and see another mass killing. when it happens, i think the nra is going to want to be seen as being responsive to newtown and other issues and political reasons. you are smiling, but just for political reasons, there is a reason wayne la pierre said we support it. >> she more conservative than then. you made the point yesterday and

are making it now that there second amendment advocates whose view is that you chip away and it's the camel's nose over the tent. >> let me just say for the record that was my position. i remember the brady bill passed and bill clinton started talking about hand guns. you know what i said in 1994? there you go. you give them one thing and they talk about another. they won't be happen until everything is banned. >> the analogous thing on the political side if you are the nra, you see the same possibility in terms of your political power. the reason why they fight on every issue and think they think correctly is once they lose one, they will be more vulnerable. on the political field, the power will be chipped away at. once they start losing, it's better to battle on a winning streak and when you lost once, it's easy to lose a second time.

they are weighing public opinion and on the other hand, what kind of raw political muscle do we have. >> by the way, that is very rational. whether you are the nra or the grocer's manufacturers. wherever you are, if they can give this concession from a position of strength, then suddenly -- you know the second there background checks, the "new york times" is going to write a story about the nr a's diminished power. look what comes next. everybody will be chirping on radio and television. they are going down. they conceded on one thing. that's a brilliant point. they can give this concession from a position of strength that they recognize they are in that position of strength, those stories are not written. >> talk about an easy give. it's a 90-10 issue.

if you are a republican or nra in congress, it's 90-10. >> they are not going you know what, i'm going to talk about it. >> if you listen against background checks. >> they have recovered a huge position of strength. they were battling mark warner coming out. joe mansion forever gun control. we have never seen after previous mass shootings the number of politicians with good nra ratings saying now really is a time for a rethink. they still managed up until now to have a strong voice in this conversation and have a strong voice on capitol hill making

members reluctant. >> coming up, defending masters champion bubba watson will be here to defend this year's tournament. first aoscar winning actor -- hs hair has been very long the last time. >> i hope so. >> robert redford will be joining us. he's starring in the new film the company you keep. speaking of the company we keep -- >> the man we know. >> let's check on the forecast. >> that's a great threesome. who wouldn't want to hang out with the three of us. heavy rain is drenching people from louisiana to the new orleans area along i-10 moving into tallahassee, pensacola, panama city later into alabama and as far as airports go, from atlanta down to tallahassee and

jacksonville. it will be late for the rain. we could get drenched. one to two inches of rain. about a half inch through the carolinas. today's forecast. after a cold start. we are warming up a little bit in areas of the east. for areas like washington, d.c., you have to wait until the weekend and the cherry blossoms will be looking gorgeous with temperatures finally where they should be this time of year. right on queue. we have the best director in the business here on "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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. >> would you do it again? >> if i didn't have kids and old parents that i love. we made mistakes. >> he has a daughter younger than yours. >> people do what they have to do. >> what are you doing here with me? you had a choice in all of this after all. >> it doesn't matter what i say unless i say it to somebody who is interested in the truth. it seems as if you are interested in the truth.

most people aren't. what are you going to do? >> my job. >> 25 past the hour. that was a scene from the new movie, the company you keep. joining us now, the film's director and costar, robered redford. welcome back to the show. great to see you again. we are happy to see you too. >> so busy. you have this incredible movie and all the president's men revisited. >> it's a great esquire article. >> absolutely great. you are juggling a lot of emotion. >> maybe i should quit while i'm ahead. >> if you don't mind, this is an absolutely great article and talking about the crazy "new york times." the new yorker. that was hilarious. talk about because i go back and of course i remember seeing

butch cassidy and the sundance kid and i thought it was absolutely great. we look back at it as a classic and reading this article that you face an obstacle that leonardo dicaprio who i have misjudged for years because he was in the titanic first. i would say man, i can't stand that. seeing him act and then i go he's an incredible actor. >> give this kid a second chance. you face that too because butch cassidy and the sundance kid chi thought was a great film. >> nobody thought when i made that film, i remember when i saw it, i wasn't told about this musical number. what's that doing there? shows you about it. >> you thought it was cute? >> it wasn't each rain. i thought what's that doing here? really. i thought this was going to be a

good experience. i just killed it. that shows you how good my judgment was. >> here we are 40 years later and the discovery channel documentary and all the presidents looking back on that. >> you are in it. >> what? >> joe is in it? >> he's in it? >> he's very good by the way. do we have a clip? >> he should have burned the damn tapes. >> let's let the documentary speak for itself, but in terms of yours, you say something interesting. i grew up in florida and it was at that time you were either for jane fonda or john wayne. i grew up in a family for john wayne. the way you thread that out is good. you will see. >> what's fascinating about it is you look back on nixon and you realize that martin luther king and jackie robinson in the 50s were talking about how he was a champion for civil rights in 57 and the domestic

legislation was fairly liberal, but we were so divided as a country, huh to choose sides. >> i shouldn't probably talk too much about this, but it's inescapable and a great moment. in the documentary, you see something that really stands out. that is when they had the watergate hearings, there was a clip of the hearings themselves. you have the tendency and they are grilling three guys. two guys are lying and is telling the truth. what rises up out of it is you see both parties, democrats and republicans working together to get to the truth. >> right. >> now all you have it do is imagine that moment and compare it to today where you got it in washington as a war zone. people are not working. there was no compromise.

the definition is the art of compromise. you have been a compromiser all your life. >> mike has been compromised his whole life. >> the fact that he is here. >> it's a horrible compromise and what does it say to you? really quick on the company you keep. great movie and great stars. it was the decision you make as a director and actor and an artist. i don't think politically you could have done this movie ten years ago. >> it was hard enough today. >> i know and you will get hammered for doing it, but enough time has passed that you can look back and to the events that happened and have a more dispassionate look at it. >> it's more about that part of it. the underground, the movement that happened then is not really about that. that's the frame that sets the thing off. it's about something else.

i don't think we have time to go into it. in terms of themes -- >> it's a three-hour show. >> you have three hours. >> the movie is not three hours. our show is. >> our show is three hours. tell us, what is at the heart of this movie for you? >> i will be quick. there many levels to it. i think in the world we live in, things are kind of reduced to either black or white or red and blue. for me it's the gray area that has been interesting where the complexities lie. that's what fascinates me. >> that's where the truth s. >> it is. to pull it out is where the drama is. for me the themes that have interested me are the hunter and the hunted. the predator and the prey. those are themes that are in a lot of the things i have done. that's here now because it is legitimized versus people that went underground and had to assume another name to stay

free. what are the consequences 30 years later of that? what is it like living without your name? in a way it bears resemblance to les miserables. for the love of daughter, a man's love of his daughter. what he has to go g through to clear his name is worth the drama. those are themes that interest me. there a lot of levels as you see that the film had to be designed as a thriller. the energy of it as the reporter. to smooth out what's going on as he is the hound that goes after the prey. the film has to pick up energy and you have to stop to let the emotions come in. that's not easy to manage. >> am i right to say that it's the first time you have been on acting in front of the camera in about five years? >> the first time.

you have richard jenkins and nick noelty and robert redford acting on camera. what about this project attracted you to act as well as that? >> i read a book about five years ago and the book was broad and had plot lines and characters and so forth. that took a long time. i was lucky because films were more easy to make in the 70s and not so easy today because of how the businesses change. one of the things i was blessed with because it was low budget for my colleagues and the actors you mentioned, they came on for little to no money. that meant a lot to me.

>> one of the things about the items we have been talking about, but the documentary and the company you keep that opens friday nationwide. >> i couldn't say it. >> i know. >> both involve peeling the onion back. both stories involve peeling the onion layer upon layer upon layer. watergate breaking and the peel the onion back and it's a story about this lawyer who participates in something, is that what attracted you to this movie? >> i think what you identified is what i would call a gray zone. all the work i have done is about the country i grew up in and how i see it. because of the propaganda that took place that starred after the second world war.

i grew up in a lower working class community that was easily affected by propaganda and the best and the greatest country. we are great. it started to get to me and gone to see a different america. it was an america that had more complexity and more gri. that was not something that people would be talking about. i was drawn to that and therefore when i was able to tell stories of my own, they were going to fall into that area where you mentioned about where the complexity lies that we don't want to face. to me that's what's interesting. >> you talked about peeling the onion and button up the two movies, they are about journalism. >> it's not about journalism as much as richard nixon or politics. it's a detective story. you made a generation of journalists want to be journalists. how many people have come up to you over the course of your life

and said i want to be robered redford? >> no, you didn't. go ahead. >> you are right about journalism. i take it very seriously. always have. any avenue towards the truth is what i will champion. so much crap going on and so much information out there. journalism is a big deal for me. i would take it personally. the only thing inevitable is change. journalism will be affected too. once the film is made, it's a moment of pride. i can illustrate and a profession that i had respect for. i had no idea it was going to slide in such a different direction because of the

internet. i had to watch the journalism and it's like it hit hard. i thought i should try to document what's happening now. all the way through. high point and low point and mid-point. what have you. the bottom line is that i have such respect for journalism, i may put a hard eye on it. >> the movie we are talking about is the company you keep and it hits theaters in new york and l.a. on friday. >> what date again? >> friday. theaters across the country. >> good friday. >> that is a good friday. the day after thursday. >> friday before saturday. >> all the president's men revisited. premiers sunday at 8:00 p.m., 7:00 central on the discovery channel. robert redford. thank you very much. great have you back on the show. >> great to be here. >> all right. coming up, the reigning champion of the masters and bubba watson

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market-related news. the sec acknowledged the value of social media noting relevance in market communications. from the "new york times" retailers from across country are taking action against employee theft. >> bad news for you. they want the mugs back. >> a number of stores with target and cbs are creating a massive database track workers accused of stealing. the stores will use that -- >> that doesn't seem right. >> that keeps them working ever again in the retail industry. >> look at what we have up. the guy from northwest florida, baby. l.a. and lower alabama. without the h. >> bubba watson in the studio. back in a moment.

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>> it's 45 past the hour. the 2013 masters tournament tees off next week and joining us now is the defender of the green jacket. bubba watson. you look nice. >> the grown jacket and everything he wears is green. for the past year. i asked if there was pressure and you said no pressure, baby. i got the green jacket. >> no matter what i'm in the masters for life. i have a champions locker. live is pretty easy right now. >> pretty good. me how your life has changed. >> some really, really great changes. >> the biggest changes we adopted our son before the masters and i won the masters. when you look at life, winning the masters is overwhelming, but adopting a child before the masters makes it tougher. it has been a blast.

the family and hanging with my child and watching him grow, he is close to walking and we are trying to defend the masters it. has been a blast. it has been fun and wouldn't change it for the world. >> for i'm you, i would adopt another child before the master this is year. seems like the thing to do. no pressure going in there. >> looking forward to it. the par three tournament. my wife will be out there. we will get nice photos of it. it will be family time and have fun and also enjoy the ride of being masters champion and try to defend it. if i win, great. if not i'm in the masters the following year. >> does the masters give you a differently feel in approaching this and if so, why? >> it gives you a different approach. being a part of it is a big

deal. playing in it is an honor and a privilege. when you get there, we get goose bumps and get nervous. we want to perform at the highest level and you get week a year to do that. luckily i was part of history last year and hopefully keep that going. >> i have to ask this question. the hover craft golf cart. that sounds like. the idea of mark barnacle doing the exercise. >> is this a real thing? >> we're created it. let's make golf fun. we went over bunkers and greens and water. golf carts can't do that. it's one of the things, is it practical? probably not. cost-efficient? no. >> how much did it cost? >> free for me. >> what do i have to pay to get

that? >> before customization, around $16,000. >> before customization. look at that thing going across the water. >> to put the roof on there and where you can hold the golf clubs and a cooler and a flat screen. the lights and stuff like that. if it gets you playing golf, i can play with that. look at that thing. pensacola will never be the same. >> i can't imagine it coming down at augusta. >> how about going across the pond. that's fun. hopefully it doesn't break down. >> he spends most of the time in the pond trying to fish his balls out. i love the strategy. it's sick. >> my champion's dinner using food poisoning.

really when you think about it, he's the best ever and on top of his game. he won the last two events. he's healthy and got his personal is getting better and got a new love. putting well and doing everything in the right direction. why wouldn't he be the guy to beat at the masters. >> bubba got a haircut. >> looks like he combed it. >> last time i was here. >> more approving. >> you look nice, bubba. >> thank you. >> he's fine either way. you have the green jacket. >> so does caleb. >> it makes golfers likeable. absolutely. >> i'm acting good. >> you have a great attitude towards life. >> great to see you again. >> good luck with your family. we'll be right back. my mother made the best toffee in the world.

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woods. you have to get there in the quickest wi possible. >> it's not a great surprise when one of us wins the masters. we like having fun. >> robert redford honors and respects journalists. >> i love it. >> what did you learn? >> i learned as a game of sport golf, it is an individual sport. many you don't want to spend six seconds to it. this guy puts a human face to the game. >> the pga tour tweeted a picture of bubba and robert redford in our green room. electric at the middle on our screen.