small business owners meet with president obama to talk about the economy. how do you get your first customers? one company that matches advertisers with commercial producers did it with deep discounts. and even the easter bunny would love the sweat story behind this booming candy business. it's time to make money coming up on "your business." ♪ candy, candy, candy small businesses are revitalizing the economy and american express open is here to help.

that's why we are proud to present "your business" on msnbc. hi there, everyone. i'm j.j. ramberg and welcome to "your business" the show dedicated to giving you tips and advice to help your small business grow. during last year's presidential election, there was a lot of talk about helping america's small businesses. and now entrepreneurs are looking to washington to back that talk up with action. on march 18th, the national small business association or nsba, brought a group of small business owners from 20 states to the white house to talk to officials about what's going on with the economy. president obama met with the group and spoke about issues affecting them including taxes,

policies and the need to innovate. mike runs factory services agency, a family owned commercial heating, air conditioning can and ventilation company near new orleans. he's also a member of the nsba and attended that meeting with the president. chris holman is ceo of the michigan business network, a statewide business news website and broadcast company. he is the immediate past chairman of the board of trustees for the nsba. great to see you both. >> good morning. thanks for having us. >> i appreciate you giving us insight into what happened at that meeting. so, mike, let me start with you. what are some of the biggest issue your company and people in your industry and your area of the world are facing and how did the president react to them? >> one of the major things we seem to continually be faced with is the never ending list of regulations that keep coming out of the national labor relations board and the office of economic equal opportunity commission and osha and epa and everyone else

just seem to consistently be trying to pile new regulations on small businesses. some of the other proposals coming out that we were anxious to get a chance to talk about, there's so much communication right now about the new immigration reform and, of course, some of our members are concerned with patent reform, businesses have new products and have trouble getting patents. they fight big businesses who seem too much the edge on those things. >> hey, chris, can i ask can you a question? do you think the administration has a real sense of how some of these policies affect small business? look, when you're writing them down on paper, you're in washington and europe not the guy running the dry-cleaner in cleveland, you may not think all the way down to what does this mean to that particular person. do you think anyone there is really paying attention to the

nitty-gritty? >> you know, i honestly think they're paying attention but you can't have the empathy for the circumstances that we undergo as small business people until you're really in our shoes and that's kind of where some of this falls down. i think the intent is well laid. i think that washington wants to help us. i think the white house in particular wants to help us. sometimes they're unaware of the, you know, unachievable or -- >> unintended consequences basically? >> yeah, and the things that come out of it because they don't circulate in that genre every day. i really think people are trying hard, but it wasn't too long ago we all met with some of the regulators. they write regulations. they're regulators. we're the people they impact. i think we'd like a little more empathy with those regulators to say what will be some of the impacts and what will be the additional work loads that we'll be placing on small businesses? >> did you walk away feeling

like things are going to change? i've spoken, somebody will hear me? >> this is one of the things i walked away with because i had met with the president in december on some small business issues and to see him there, one of the messages he came in with was we want to hear from you as a small business. i was ecstatic to hear that. we've been wanting for a long time to reconvene the white house conference on small business which the last time there was one was 18 years ago. and he immediately said, you know what, this is something we need to do. let's get it done. bring me your biggest issues, and we'll work on them on an annual basis. so i do think there's concern there. it will have to wait and see exactly what happens in the future. but i do think they heard and i do think they know the importance of small business. we employ 54% of the working force here in the country. >> did you find some consistency amongst you and the other members or the other people who were there around the issues that you were facing? >> there are so many issues coming out of d.c. that impact us that we just need some action and almost to the person, the majority of the legislators that

spoke to us, senators and representatives from all over the country and even the president indicated what most small businesses want to see is just get out of the way and let us do things so we can restore the economy. everybody preaches that small businesses are the economic engine of the economy of the country but then they seem to keep taking the bridges out so that we can't get this engine rolling forward. we just need some clarity in d.c. we need some understanding. we need them to work together like small businesses do to solve problems. we need the people in d.c. to work together and solve our difficulties. >> mike and chris, we appreciate you coming on and giving us a little insight into what happened in that meeting and also for being mouthpieces for small businesses all across the country. thanks for joining us. >> thank you. thank you for having us, j.j. we appreciate the time. when starting up or launching a new product, a lot of businesses find themselves in a catch-22 when it comes to getting the first customers. they need case studies to attract clients but they need clients to get the case studies. so what do you do?

ever thought of giving your service away for free or at least at a deep discount? well, that's exactly what the company tongal did and it's working out for them. as entertainingly remembered in the show "mad men" this is the way commercials are still typically made. >> the most important idea in advertising is new. >> a company hires an expensive ad agency to produce an expensive ad. the founders of los angeles based tongal, james, mark, and rob, are turning that model on its head. revolutionizing the way commercial cans are made for both the internet and television. they've created a way for companies to bypass the agencies and harness the creativity of the crowd. >> produce contend, post the challenge onto our website and anyone in the world with a good idea is voted into the process. >> here is how it works. a brand like chips ahoy puts out a request for ideas for a commercial advertising its product and offers a cash prize

for the person who comes up with the best one. then anyone, you, me, your grandmother, can submit an idea. donald had never directed a commercial before until he won the chance to make this. >> i love you! >> i can't believe it's not butter! >> people do not take chances unless on young filmmakers you have something. tongal has allowed me to show i can do this. >> the brand gets a good ad for much less than they pay an agency, tongal gets a fee for managing the process and an army of unknown creatives get the chance to make a commercial. win, win, win, right? in the beginning it was hard to convince anyone of that. so how did can they get companies to come onboard? well, they gave away their services for free. basically in the beginning tongal earned nothing. and sometimes even put up the prize money themselves.

with this strategy they were able to land the micro lending site kiva, the clothing company vineyard vines and a the makers of duck tape. david rogers said tongal guys convinced him by saying this. >> look, this is very low risk, very low resources and very low cost. >> cost was key to his decision. >> from a budget standpoint, we could really fit it in without sacrificing too much from the other planned programs we had going on. >> when you talked to dave and said to him, okay, i'm willing to do this incredibly cheap. does it tear your heart out a little to be giving away, in essence, your product? >> it does because you believe in the long term what the value of all this really is. >> turns out this deal was a risk worth taking on everyone's side. dave and his team chose a commercial they likely would not have taken a gamble on in a traditional model. >> it's a very crazy concept that i think before you see it executed and executed so well, it's really tough, i think, to

envision and envision as a successful video. >> the video went viral and was watched more than 2.5 million times. shurtech got more than their money's worth and have come back for other products. >> literally changed my life. >> and tongal has gotten other early clients to come back as well, but they admit it's hard to raise the price after you've given something as a discount. is it hard to say, okay you spent $17,000 on that commercial. it went viral, people love it. now i'm going to ask you to pay $60,000 on your next commercial? >> yeah, it is. it's absolutely hard because, again, there's difficulty in terms of setting precedent and getting people to pay more. >> mark says managing the process of raising the fee is all about being up front with about it from the start. >> it's just being transparent, communicating from the beginning that this is being sold at a discount.

this should be worth "x." we are doing this to build a relationship. >> and then backing up the success with numbers to justify an increased price going forward. david agrees. >> we paid more because we understand the content that we get is pron to be really great. >> the duck tape success story was worst the investment by the tongal team. now clients include mcdonald's, lego, food to name a few. >> the selling process has changed from, hey, you should think about doing this to how can we help you solve your problem? >> and nothing in their universe marks success more than producing a commercial that airs during the super bowl. >> it was awesome. it was great in the sense i think in the advertising world that's the super bowl. a bad pun right there. >> the founders of it tongal say they still have room as far as pricing is concerned but long gone are the days of begging someone, anyone, to hire them for free.

so is initially offering discounts to attract customers a viable strategy? let's ask this week's board of directors. mike is ceo of preventus group, they help companies that have plateaued get back to growing. he is also a best-selling author. and the special projects director at entrepreneur.com, colleen. great to see you both. >> great to see you. >> so this is a story that happens all of the time. you have this great service and you're trying to get people to use it. and offering it for free and they just hang up the phone on you. i mean, i told them -- i asked them in the beginning, what were people's reactions? and they said even when they were offering it for free, nobody wanted to do it because it takes time and takes thinking. and so is it a viable strategy for a lot of companies? >> to get started you have to do it for free because it's so

risky to be the first customer. so i talk with any business starting out. if you can do it free or significantly dig counted in the beginning, the second customer is the one who will be asking for the referral. so i hate to say it but it is the way to get started. you need to ratchet up the prays quickly to become profitable. >> i don't know if you to it for free -- >> maybe not for free. >> i think a good thing -- i think they mentioned about being up front with customers. i think what you do, yeah, you do it at a discount and you do -- we hear a lot about the model. i think you say this is free depending on what it is maybe for the first 30 days. this is a trial period. but after that, after that finite amount of time you will have to pay for it or, you know, this is a very -- we'll give you a basic thing for free and then after that we'll throw some -- if you want to pay more you can get all the bells and whistles. >> dave rogers, the guy from shurtech said i thought was interesting and perfect, they

needed to give it to me at a price that kept it under the radar so i could still have the things i know work, i could still have an agency out there working on something and i don't have to take money from that to test this out. but they got to a guy who was responsive to their idea and then made it easy for him to sell it in the company because he didn't have to go ask for money for it basically. >> that guy's job is on the line and that's why you do it at a discount or maybe for tree because if he's wrong, he's going to get fired for that. but here is one thing you should do. every time you invoice with a client even if it's discount, give them the full price and show the credit back. you have to show them the value they're getting and that position to ratchet it up later down the road. >> keep that integrity of your price in there and, you know what i also think is a neat idea and i have seen companies can do this. they do a different pricing structure for, like, they might give away their service for free to another startup, to a smaller company that doesn't have big

revenues yet where they will charge a higher price for a bigger company and this guy mentioned chips ahoy, i think. i can see you're that little company out there. you want to get those big, big clients, but i think it's better to go and get the smaller clients first. they can be your case studies. >> and what was neat, they got kiva and vineyard farms but well-known names. lots of people out there know what kiva is. kiva is a cool, innovative company yet they don't have a the lot of money to get a big commercial company and so it seemed like a smart strategy and it's working out for these guys. indeed it was. thanks, guys. providing health benefits to your employees is a major cost of doing business. so here now are some tips that could reduce your small business health costs courtesy of the small business section of about.com. one, keep your employees healthy. wellness programs, health seminars and general fitness events at work not only do wonders for overall employee morale but they can also be effective cost saving methods.

two, reduce coverage. find out what your employees want covered the most and cut out unnecessary programs. it may be unpopular at first but it will lower costs in the long run. three, health savings accounts. these are tax exempt funds that can be used to pay for certain medical expenses. this could help you reduce your cost and get tax breaks for your employees. four, join a group. plans can cover between two to 50 employees. an added benefit, the larger your party, the lower your premiums. and, number five, shop around. health insurance is a huge industry so do your research. with a little digging, you'll be able to find a good and cost effective plan for your small business. still to come, we answer your small business questions

about getting customers to accept you as you expand your brand and finding a good mentor. and forget about chocolate bunnies. this candy company found success with their giant gummy bears by growing slow. ♪ i want candy we've all had those moments. when you lost the thing you can't believe you lost. when what you just bought, just broke. or when you have a little trouble a long way from home... as an american express cardmember you can expect some help. but what you might not expect, is you can get all this with a prepaid card. spends like cash. feels like membership.

here's a story to warm the heart of the easter bunny this weekend. the creators of the world's largest gummy bears have a dilemma. they got so many phone calls and e-mails about their giant gummy collection that they actually had to turn some potential customers at least temporarily down. like the tale of the tortoise and the hare growing slow and steady may actually win the race. >> honestly, it was sort of born out of desperation. the whole thing kind of started as a joke. >> the world's largest gummy bear was only supposed to be a stunt. >> the first ones were made literally in my apartment. >> but the gag gift derek lawson made for his brother has since piqued the interest of millions. >> we started out by making one,

selling one. we took that money and made two. took that money and made four. now it's grown to the point we can make upwards of 3,000 a day. >> weighing five pound and standing almost a foot tall, the world's largest gummy bear which calls raleigh, north carolina, home, certainly lives up to its name. lawson and business partner michael horowicz launched their company ggb of raleigh in 2007 with the world's largest gummy bear as their signature item. since then revenue has surpassed a million dollars a year and the number of year-round employees is at about 20. while the majority of businesses wholesale, anyone can buy the bears online. they can also check out the company's own laboratory at candy store in raleigh. >> we test out flavors.

we test out the unique things that we bring to market and we see what people are saying about it. >> despite their success lawson and horowicz are staying grounded. they're focused on a grow slow approach to business. >> the only mistake we could make would be to grow faster than the demand. >> while demand for giant gummy bears, giant gummy worms, and other assorted gummy products is consistently high, lawson believes that growing the company slowly is actually good business. the partners have put in a few provisions in place to moderate growth. >> as we take on more business we want to make sure we can handle the business that is continuing to grow behind us. we make those per demand, but let's say the demand diminishes for the world's largest gummy bear. >> even as the operation becomes more efficient. they have learned to say not now to certain customers. >> you can't always say yes. >> just because a potential client may be told not now, it doesn't mean they'll never get their gummies. >> we have people we've said no

to who are now our customers. we are always looking to make sure we can bring in the next one. >> another key par of the strategy is not taking money from investors. >> it's something i'm comfortable with. we have extended offers for loans or to take investment moneys. you can't plan and build infrastructure for something you're writing a book on. it could treat them to an even sweeter success. it's time to answer some of your business questions and mike and colleen are with us to answer them. are you guys excited?

planning for retirement. that's our first question. >> is there a formula i should use in how much money i should take out for my retirement and shouch i should retain for the future of the company. >> when you're young and starting up, you really want to invest in your company. that's your future. as you get older your retirement is your future. i don't think there's a formula. >> it's a loaded question. i would take the revenue and not pocket but position it to run independently of her. that's the best way to sell the company. and your needs vary so much depending on your health and how

long you live. it sounds like she has a company she wants to step away from but allow to continue running, and that is sor of a whole another ball of wax, and it's something that she needs to think if she may want to sell it instead. it's hard to retire and step away from the company for a number of reasons. if you have great success in running it, any sorts of things could happen. we could have another recession where that steady stream of income is no longer there. >> as an established brand that wants to grow into new areas, how do you escape people's expectations of you and introduce new lines into the marketplace? >> this is a tricky one.

you are known for making golf balls and suddenly you want to this make umbrellas. >> that is a good question. introducing new product lines in yen. she may be in the retail industry. if people are confused to why you're introducing a product, you have to explain why you're coming out with the new product and what it does. >> we get this with services, too. someone is a closet organizer and then they want to give tax advice. >> thanks for telling me the lard way. >> the idea of two discreet abilities or products. how do you bring them together? >> one is brand con grunsy.

when you have a closet to tax thing, and that would be to have a whole new brand. i saw this done in the bridal industry. elite bridal opened discount bridal across the street. two competing business, but the consumer did not know it was the same owner. that's how you do it. >> moving on, this is about getting advice for running your business. >> how do i find a businessmen tor or adviser to work with to help me develop my company and answer those difficult challenges questions that maybe a board of directors might answer, but as a small business you want to be outside your company and fwet the question answered. this is a good question. it takes time. someone has to really care about your business. >> i am jumping on this one.

let me. let me. please, please. this is what changed my business life permanently. i'm in entrepreneurs organization, new jersey. it's a peer advisory group. everyone is in the same stage of their business, but coming from noncompetitive industries. the insights you find are remarkable. >> and it's already formed. you don't have to go figure out who are these people? you just join something that already exists. >> they have rules. they have processes. they have ways to expand, too. >> also, there's score. >> score is great. you get a lot of great general advice from score. one caveat with score is a lot of companies today are looking for technology and how technology can help them run their business. they might have to go to a different place than score for that. i love that she's asking this question because i think all business owners should find a mentor out there.

savor the success. find other business owners, established business owner who is are local who want to give back and who want to work with you. >> it's so helpful. i have a group of six people, all business owners. when i have a question, i send an e-mail to all six of them. it can be very simple. about health insurance or they require thought and you want to know what other people are doing. it's amazing how helpful it is. >> and a lot of business owners feel very alone. sometimes it can be lonely being in business for yourself. it makes it feel like you are part of a group. >> thanks for all of this, you guys, and your enthusiasm. >> we rocked it. >> you did. if any of you have a question for our experts, all you have to do is go to our website. openforum.com/yourbusiness. once you get there hit the ask the show link to submit a

question for our panel. that website is openforum.com/yourbusiness. or e-mail your questions and comments to yourbusiness@msnbc.com. do you find yourself spending hours behind a computer screen but then get surprised by how little you actually get done during the workday? check out our website of the week. this is a tracking time that tracks your every day activities on your computer without you having to do a thing. they will show you a breakdown of how you spend your day and suggestions of ways to use your time more efficiently. you can have all websites blocked for a set amount of time. to learn more about today's show, click on our website. openforum.com/yourbusiness. you'll find all of today's segments and more information to

help your business grow. you can also follow us on twitter. and please don't forget to become a fan of the show on facebook. next week, what do you do when the big names in real estate move into your small town market? it turn out small business owners in aspen, colorado, have several natural advantages when it comes to attracting and holding onto customers. we'll tell you how these independents have managed to hold their own against the big guys. until then, i'm j.j. ramberg. remember, we make your business our business. we've all had those moments. when you lost the thing you can't believe you lost. when what you just bought, just broke. or when you have a little trouble a long way from home... as an american express cardmember