ro a few decades ago aspen colorado was run by local business businesses. lack around and you see big brand names everywhere. how have the local entrepreneurs survived this invasion? that's up next on "your business."

hi there, everyone. i'm j.j. ramberg, and welcome to "your business. "we are back this week ready to help you grow your company. it's a constant battle for many of you watching trying to make a small business successful while competing against a corporate giant. the challenge can be daunting particularly in a community like aspen, colorado, once a small rural enclave, it's now a glamorous ski resort with a blooming luxury market. for some much of the town's small, independent real estate companies, there was only one way to compete against the biggies of their industry, join forces. 40 years ago aspen, colorado, was a hard to reach back water

far away from the world of big business and international tourism. >> it was much smaller. it was much more intimate. businesses were all small. the shops were small. it had a wonderful scale and feeling. >> that's when bill stirling first arrived and opened up his own independent real estate business called stirling homes incorporated. >> i started it with a borrowed loan from the bank of about $5,000, and that's how it all began in 1978. >> when we started 20 years ago, we were still dealing with mls books. there was no internet. there was no -- i mean, it was a big deal. there was no e-mail. it has changed a ton. >> adams, another longtime aspen-based independent real estate business owner. >> well, i'm going to strike out. i was young enough, naive enough to think i could do it and i just started off on my own thinking i could do this better. >> well, the real estate market has changed just as aspen has. we started selling old houses that needed to be remodeled. >> this man came to aspen for the ski slopes and then started

selling property on the side more than three decades ago. >> it's evolved. it's a luxury market. now we're selling luxurious homes like this. >> garnett smith is bill's partner. she loves the small town world of aspen real estate. looking around these houses are gorgeous, and they're enormous, and they're on this amazing hill. you can see the gondola in the background. what does something like this cost? >> which one? the one we're in would probably sell for about $9 million, $10 million. across the street $15 million to $20 million. >> with millions of dollars at stake and a growing international clientele, it's no surprise that big companies took notice. local independents like bill's stirling homes, b.j. adams and company and peak properties of aspen now face stiff competition from big-time brokers like christie's, sotheby's and coldwell banker. >> i think the circumstances in

town, we couldn't just ignore these behemoths coming into our marketplace. >> so how does a local small business compete with the deep pockets of big brands? >> did i tell you i got the price reduction? >> for bill stirling and dawnette smith and dale potvin from peak properties, the answer was to form a single four-person agency. did you guys feel like you had to merge in order to compete with some of the other stuff that was happening in aspen? >> yes. >> it was time. >> i think we need ed to figure out ways where we could operate with a critical scale that saved us money, and by merging that enabled us to do that, get more bang for our buck in the promotion. >> how did that first conversation go about merging? >> ever since i started with bill in 2003, and ever since i worked with bill, it's been a very casual conversation. you see dale up to the front, bill would say, he would be a great partner.

oh, it would be so great to be in the same office as them. >> today they're fully merged. they share office space, share leads on buyers and houses, and they say that together they're each doing much better than they did alone. >> we thought by finding another group that was similar to ours would be a great way to create more energy. >> it's very much part of this new size, that we are slightly bigger. >> being big, in my mind, isn't better. the biggest problem in my opinion with all that have is the culture changes when they're big. >> b.j. has owned her own agency nearly 20 years. and with 13 employees, she says there's not much mystery to how to stay ahead of the big guys. does it make you nervous, though, as a small business owner, to have these big brands with a lot of money and a lot of collateral behind them and name

recognition come in? >> it doesn't make me nervous. to me, they're like -- they're like the macy's thanksgiving day parade balloons. these great big, huge things in the sky that get a lot of people's attention, but they are lumbering, and they move slow, and it takes dozens and dozens of people to handle them and maneuver them through the streets. i feel like we're more like, you know, the courier on the bicycle. we are blocks and blocks ahead of them. >> while b.j. says flexibility to quickly react to market changes is one of the natural advantages that comes with being small, there's a second advantage, too, the knowledge that comes from being a longtime member of the community. if i only have one afternoon with that buyer before they leave to go home. i have the opportunity to show them six or ten properties and

they'd better be the best properties on the market or the buyer is going to get discouraged with the process and say, oh, never mind. >> as a result she claims she closes more deals and wastes less time than the big guys and that's the strategy that keeps her in the game. a strategy that in some ways is shared by dale and bill. >> you start with bill stirling, you don't get handed off to some assistant. bill is there for the beginning, all the showings, all the research, and that's the way we want to work with every one of our clients. >> it's a typical david versus goliath story. we've talked about them a lot on the show. sometimes they have good outcomes for the small business and a lot of times, unfortunately, it doesn't. so what can work for your company? let's hear from two people who have firsthand knowledge from both sides of this coin. the founder and ceo of happy family, the company responsible for brands like happy baby. she knows what it's like to go against the big brands. and marketing expert jeffrey hazlett is author and head of the hazlett group and was the

cmo of kodak. good to see you. >> thanks for having me. >> i was just in the airport in asp aspen, colorado. when you land there there is a big sign from coldwell banker and it just brought home the point to me that these small companies may, you know, they say they do better at finding the good houses, do better with customer service perhaps, but they will never have the money of a coldwell banker to buy that huge sign in the airport. and you experienced the same thing wrp you were a small baby food company competing against companies like gerber. how do you get the word out? >> i mean, i think you have to know your consumer. so mothers really don't like being marketed to. and if you're looking potentially for a very luxury boutique home, potentially you might want to go and find a luxury boutique agency. >> you don't have tons of money in the beginning.

now you have hundreds of millions in sales. you are crossing your fingers and hoping that people are going to start talking about you. >> when we launched, we launched about seven years ago, almost our seventh birthday and we did $115,000 in sales our first year, so we've grown tremendously since then. we focus on pr and we said, you know what, we want other moms to know about what we're doing, let's get editorial so that there's coverage about this new innovation because there really haven't been any innovation in baby foods since the 1930s. so we had a story. >> shavi was doing something different in a world of baby food which wasn't marketed as organic, she created something new, solving a problem for a lot of moms out there. how do you -- go ahead? >> she did a lot of the same things and that's word of mouth. do great service, give a great job, and do the things you need to. you know, in the real estate

business is really built on trust and who you mo and knowing those sports and the area. don't forget, david versus goliath. david won with a well-placed, very missile-like shot against those big guys and that's what businesses need to do especially small businesses. >> so, jeffrey, when you were cmo of kodak, how much did you pay attention to small businesses who were getting into your space, or were you just so big they didn't even hit your radar? >> it depends on what the business is. in the b2b space that was much more hands-on. consumer space we could blow it out and i could spend billions, quite frankly, billions of dollars in advertising or hundreds of millions in advertising and just blow it and carpet bomb things and that still doesn't make it happen. the from product has to be real. it has to be good just like the baby food has to go good. in this case stirling peak which sounds like they're doing a great be job. they have to do great service and that's what differentiates them from the big guys, from those big block super realtors that are out there and i think

that's the key part they want to remember. don't be like them. be yourself. by being yourself you can differentiate and you can have that specialness that makes people want to come to you. in today's "where's the money"? credit unions. how do they differ from banks? how likely is it that you can get a loan from one, and how do you know where to even find one? basically we're going to explore whether going to a credit union is a good 0 option for your company. paul is executive vice president at the credit union national association, a national trade association for both state and federally chartered credit unions located in the united states. good to see you. >> great to be here. >> we hear so much about banks and over the last many years we've heard how hard it is to get a loan from a bank. how do you make the decision whether to go to a bank or a credit union? >> it has been hard to get a loan from the bank. during the recessionary period banks tighten down their lending.

credit unions on the other hand continue to lend during a recessionary time. our lending up 12% from 2007 to 2012. we're there for our membership. as a credit union member you're an owner of that institution. unlike banks we don't have shareholders to please, we don't have to draw big profits. that's a different model, a cooperative model. >> so why wouldn't i go to you first? i mann, what do i get by going to a credit union? >> you should go to us first. you get a lot. better rates, lower fees. we are a better deal for consume consumers. the challenge is people don't realize they can get business loans from credit unions. they are starting to wake up to it but it's really an education process. >> okay. so give me a sense of interest rates compared to banks. >> well, overall our interest rates are better across the board. whatever the product is on average. the difference really on the business side with banks is we'll do the true small business loans. our average small business loan is $215,000. a lot of times those are loans that banks don't want to touch. they're just not profitable enough for them, but we'll do

those loans. we often do loans that are $50,000 and below. so these are the people that may need a new landscape truck, may want to keep their restaurant going during tough times. we look at those loans. >> for somebody who doesn't know anything about credit unions, you talk about being a member of a credit union. what does that mean? what do i have to do besides take your money for my loan? >> sometimes it scares people, it means you just open an account at a credit union. last year 2 million people opened accounts at credit unions so really waking up to the power of credit unions. i think there's a frustration level with banks, you don't know where your money is going with the bailouts and taxpayer subsidies. people worry. you can be sure there's no shareholders, no stockholders. it's really just you and the credit union. >> you say opening an account to put money in or to take money out? >> whatever you want. you have to put your own money in before you take it out. you can certainly open an account to get a loan. >> and what do you need to put in there to get a loan? >> typically just the basic share that's $5 to open an

account. >> so basically nothing. so i give you $5 and how do you decide whether to give a company a loan or not. they're saying we are not getting good applicants, that's why we're not getting loans. how do you go through the evaluation process of deciding whether this person or company is worthy of a loan? >> we go through some of the same processes of banks. however, we tend to know our membership better. we'll take more time to understand the fundamentals and the things that are driving their need for lending and for liquidity. i think banks sort of might risk are score you with numbers before even talking to you. we have lots of stories where people have been turned down to loans and banks. they come to us, get a small $60,000 loan and it's turned into a big business. we see that a lot and what's happened when you apply to a bank? we department really get the time of day. >> a lot of people think when we talk about membership you have to be a member, you have to work for a company to be a part of their credit union. can anyone -- can i walk up to any credit union and say i want

to be a member? i want to get a loan? >> there's a credit union for everybody. it has opened up in the last decade so more people can join credit unions. we have a great resource for them, for anybody who wants to know about a credit union, smarterchoice.org. answer three simple questions about where you live, work and worship. >> paul, thank you so much for giving us credit union 101. i appreciate it. after running your company for a while, it's not uncommon to get a little sluggish about things. but let that feeling take over and your business is going to start heading in the wrong direction. so here now are five things to consider when you are looking to re-energize your business courtesy of bizbest.com. success starts it at the top so take inventory what you're doing well and where you need some work. two, review systems and procedures. what work when you first started out may not work now?

so make whatever adjustments are necessary to stay relevant and current. three, boost your product or service offerings. consider what your customer needs and how you can best meet those needs even if they don't exactly match up with your core products right now. four, revamp your marketing. analyze your strategy and make sure the tools you're using are reaching your target audience. number fave, impress loyal customers. don't offer simply what's expected. going above and beyond will have your clients coming back every time. still to come, building an advisory board and understanding the metrics to find out if your advertising is working. and how did the owner of an old school answering service survive in the face of a rapidly changing technology? the answer may surprise you. ♪ did you get my message we've all had those moments.

when you lost the thing you can't believe you lost. when what you just bought, just broke. or when you have a little trouble a long way from home... as an american express cardmember you can expect some help. but what you might not expect, is you can get all this with a prepaid card. spends like cash. feels like membership. social media, are smart phones, digital data tracking, keeping current and changing with the times can be hard for small business owners especially the ones that are steeped in older technology. so you would think that a call answering service would be an endangered species because of those changes.

but we found one tenacious and very innovative entrepreneur who knew how to adapt. once upon a time answering service operators like this were the only way to get messages if you stepped away from your desk. today that's all changed. >> nobody is used to lav people anymore. everyone is so used to recordings. >> or has it? >> we're kicking it around here thinking how in the heck is this answering service still in business? and i think you'd be surprised to know there's lots of us out here. >> that's mary jones, the owner of phoenix-based answer one. >> we're not your daddy's answering service anymore. we've come a long way. the agents today are smart, multitasking, savvy, they have access to so much. >> jones has been in the business for over 35 years. >> hey, maddie, how is the traffic going today? >> and she has no plans to quit anytime soon. >> we took a business that was billing $24,000 a month and

turned it into a $4 million a year business, so we enjoy it. >> nationwide the industry is pulling in revenues of more than $2.5 billion a year. and entrepreneurs like squoens are more than just surviving, they're thriving. >> in the '80s we had 35 to 40 telephone answering services in phoenix. today i think less than ten. and those are ones that probably didn't embrace the new technology. >> jones says it wasn't the new technology itself that did it, it was the fear of innovation that did them in. she remembers when call forwarding first appeared in the 1970s. >> people thought that was going to be the downfall. >> call forwarding made the work easier, cut costs, and amazingly it attracted new customers. later the same happened with voice mail. it didn't take jones out. and jones was at the front of the line to sign on for voice mail. >> when we installed the voice mail system, the first thing we did was send a blast out to all

clients, you can now pick up your messages and never, ever, ever have to wait on hold. they all signed up. >> nowadays jones takes the same view of text messaging. >> the caller has no idea that once the agent is done taking that call, they will send a transcript of that message to our client via text to his cell phone. >> while embracing new technology has helped her survive, she says that's not why customers keep coming back to her service. >> i just don't think we are ever going to replace person to person. >> with a crew of well-attain trained at manning the phones, customer clients don't realize they are talking to a call service. justin marsh was surprised to learn that jones' agents don't just take message. >> good afternoon. this is reid. how may i help you. >> in a typical answering service i think of someone picking up the phone and answering the phone and saying well, they are not available at this time. can i leave a message? that's not answer one. answer one will go above and

beyond and know the product. >> i can help you place an order. >> with detailed information and scripted talking points on their computer screens, jones' agents today can do much more than merely take messages. in many cases, her agents service around the clock backups to her clients' company and sales, customer complaints, and 1-800 information requests. much, much more than they did back in the day. for entrepreneurs like jones, staying in the game with the rules keep changing keeps things interesting but it also requires that you always keep your eye on the ball. >> thank you so much. have a great day. >> it is time to answer some of your business questions. the first one is bp finding adviser to run your business. >> we were wondering if the experts give you some advice about how to build and structure an advisory board for our small-to-medium sized company. >> you know, jeff, i like this

question because we talk about how for it is to have adviser. but how do you get people who are really engaged in your business and do you have to give them anything for it? >> you should. i serve on a lot of boards as an adviser and as a board member. one of the things you want to do is make sure you take care of the adviser. maybe as a small business have to start and buy them lunch. that may be part of it. sometimes it is just take something one to lunch. but look for people who are experts in the areas that you are deficient. if you need more help on finance, go find the best finance person. if you are looking to go into newer markets on the vertical markets, look for people who really have a good hold on that market or a good leader in that market can introduce you. >> do you have an advisory board? >> we do. >> do you give them anything in return? >> yes. initially, i started with very little knowledge about the mood industry. and i knew i needed to attract world class people to build a world class business. so i reached out to entrepreneurs who had been there and done that before me as well

as specifics in the fields where i was looking for help. pediatric nutrition, pediatrician, microbiologist, food scientist. sales strategist. finance. >> to get them involved and excited you get -- >> equity. >> yes. so -- we -- always have been generous with our equity. i feel like when people have a vested interest and seeing you succeed they really do want to help you success satisfied. and a lot of people do just like to give help. >> is it scary to give equity to an adviser who at -- may or may not be helpful? >> well, i mean, you can always have equity that vests over time. you can give them a portion. just to get kick started and then see how the relationship goes. for instance, we have one who is a phenomenal advise wror. seth goldman. co-founder of honest t. he was probably three, power years ahead of where i was at the time we started. now he's the head of the, you know, multihundred million dollar business, partnered with coca-cola. i have been able to get advice

from him at a stage of the game. he became an initial advise wror but now he is on my board of directors because he managed to be relevant to me as an adviser. >> let's move to the next question. this is b getting the most or your money. >> we try get placements in magazines and visibility at trade shows. we are looking for metrics we can use to judge the success of those placements and make sure we are getting the most out of our money. >> interesting. internet sis advertise sing so easy. roi right there. if you are doing a magazine ad it is a little bit harder unless you have a -- code and you don't know if everyone is using it. how do you figure out your roi on that? >> yeah. that's a good question. we don't do very much print advertising because you don't know the roi and you don't know if someone is passing by your ad and you don't know if they are going the use your coupon and the a friend will get it. we -- rely on online for metrics and it is the -- best. if you are doing a raid show and selling something at the trade show, at the end of the show you can find out did we write enough

orders to cover the cost of the show? but, you know, all depends what you are looking to do with your marketing efforts. >> you read the book on marketing. is it worth it for a small business to do the old school magazine tv marketing? zplutly. old school still works. nothing with wrong with the old way of doing things. figure out what the blend is. there is a way to tell the roi. you change the phone number. you change the response, put a code it and make a special offer. there's lots of ways to be able to do it and you can get the feedback. one of the biggest things that most businesses failed to do is ask how did you hear of me. and that's a great way to be able to find out what is working. even those display ads aren't working like they used to. we are starting to call that old media as well. >> okay. let's move on to the next question. it is from mary and she wrote us -- we are a small business selling a consumer product to many websites and catalogs. we have been approached by amazon to sell directly to them but we don't want to create a price issue that may discourage

our current account. is there anything data that can support whether amazon creates incremental sales versus cannibalization of current ones? any ideas? >> i think you want to make sure you offer two different kinds of services. pushing it through to amazon make sure you are going to be giving up a lot there. make sure that you are doing it at different price levels and so if someone is going to be getting more service, that's the differentiation. you won't get that on the amazon side. you will get an experience very good. >> what do you think? >> i totally agree. differentiated product so you are not getting in trouble from the retailers, different price points. for instance, we sell multipacks on amazon. and they really work well with amazon mom because they have a subscribe and safe program. we are moving a lot of volume through that program and it is phenomenal for building the brand and getting product out. it is also not hurting our other business because they are co complementary. >> appreciate you coming on the show.

thumbs up to you, too. we are here every week. just to help you with any small business problems you are dealing with. if you have one and you want our panel to talk about it just go to our website. openforum.com/yourbusiness. once you get there, hit the ask the show link to submit a question for our panel. again, that website is openforum.com/yourbusiness. if you would rather you can e-mail us your questions and comments to -- >> you can learn a lot about your business from what people are saying on the network. are you worried about same-day delivery? don't be. customers don't care. our small biz tech expert tells us that a sage survey finds more businesses seeing positive results from mobile devices. and phillies own ed -- it

'frustrating for your audience when you remove content. let it live on forever. ever been late for a meeting and had to send a flurry of text messages while driving to let people know? well, they check out our app of the week. the west is a free app that as soon as with your calendar so it knows when, where and with whom you are meeting. when you leave for the appointment, the other attend hes will automatically be notified as you make your way with your real-time eta. twist also suggests the fastest route to your destination using a combination of groogle maps and own mapping technology. want to learn more about the topics on today's show, go to our website and it is openforum.com/yourbusiness. you will see today's segment plus web exclusive content with a lot more information to help your business grow. for all of you who are on twitter you can follow us there, too. there's plenty of video and back and forthwith our viewers on our

facebook page. check it out. next week, how much do you really want to know about your company? one business owner says she wants to track everything. >> allows me to have a true gauge on our performance and what we are doing. you know, are we doing it right? where can we improve? how have we-how are we improving? >> find out how keeping close tabs on your operations can make you more efficient and improve the customer experience. remember, we make your business our business. we've all had those moments. when you lost the thing you can't believe you lost. when what you just bought, just broke. or when you have a little trouble a long way from home...