crows ] now where's the snooze button? an english icon, the former british prime minister margaret thatcher has died at the age of 87. reaction from top world leaders and go live to london this hour. also today, president obama kicks off a big week of domestic politics with a trip to connecticut to argue for new gun laws. comes as new budget get ready to dominate the washington conversation. will north korea's noise get louder or quiet down this week? we'll go live to seoul for that

situation. good morning from the tribune lobby in logan, utah. it is monday, april 8, 2013. this is "the daily rundown." here's chuck todd. thanks to carrie and her trivia loving group there near utah state university in logan, utah. thanks very much. we begin with the breaking news out of london where margaret thatcher, an icon to particularly a lot of conservatives here in the united states died this morning following a stroke. she was 87 years old after smashing the political glass ceiling to become the country's first woman prime minister. a tough, unapologetic leader earning the nickname iron lady. >> all attempts to destroy democracy by terrorism will fail. >> what we've got is an attempt to substitute the role of the mob for the rule of law.

>> when margaret thatcher first took over as prime minister in 1979, britain was facing political and economic turmoil. she managed to reverse the recession and showed medal on the stage and in 1984 thatcher survived an attempted assassination plot by the irish republican army. in america she became known as a close confident with president reagan, she shares political and economical philosophies. but her style that endured the public to her even years after she left office. >> to those waiting with bated breath for the catch phrase, the u-turn, i have only one thing to say. you turn, if you want to.

prime minister david cameron tweeted this morning "it was with great sadness that i learned of lady thatcher's death. we lost a great leader and great prime minister." joining me now nbc martin bashir and katy kay, thank you, both. martin, let me start with you. your first reaction. margaret thatcher, this is your homeland. >> i think thatcher's career can be divided between a fairly effective role on the foreign policy end of things and a domestic one. in 1982 when argentina planted a flag on the islands, she sent troops 8,000 miles in the distance. the military conflict was won and she was won a landslide election following that. but at the same time as that was going on, she was breaking unions, particularly with regard to the mining unions, which resulted in some incredibly

violent, domestic strife and protest. and, also at the same time, she was developing this notion economically that regulation had been a problem. so, many city bankers and individuals in the financial community felt completely unleashed to do as they wanted. and the result was a kind of flagrant, excessive and ostentatious pursuit of cash. which ended up with a number of comedians. he had a skit called loads of money. he would throw five-pound notes in the faces of the poor. this was in some sense a kind of indication of what they felt many people in britain felt. gordon brown wrote a book which is called "where there is greed." which is basically a critique of that kind of selfishness that she seemed to embody. you will remember, chuck, in 1987, which is about eight years

after she won that first election. at a party conference, no such thing as society. there are just individual men and women and their families. that actually defined what she felt about domestic policy. so, i think the way we can look at margaret thatcher is that she was incredibly effective in p partnering with gorbachev in terms of breaking the soviet union. at the same time in domestic terms, she was incredibly divisive. >> you know, katy, amazing here the reference with which american conservatives and some of the things that martin was just describing. you know, her sort of stick tewativeness on some principles when it comes to economics and regulations is what made her, frankly, so popular among the conservative movement. you could make an argument that maggie thatcher was the founding

mother. >> you speak to democrats in america and i would say the respect, the admiration, the fondness for margaret thatcher is almost universal in america. there's little sense of the divisiveness with which she viewed still in britain. i think there is even people on the left and britain would say many of her policies are right. that doesn't mean they hold her in affection and that is not the case here. she is one of the rare british leaders who has come across the pond and won over the hearts. you put churchill up there. >> we don't do that in the united states. we're pretty narcissistic and we don't revere outsiders. >> churchill, thatcher, tony blair are all leaders. >> we draw the line right there. >> right. however you view her and she is divisive figure in british politics. she was transformative and she took britain from the stale economic chaos of the 1970s. when we were having three days a

week of power and there were strikes. the britain i grew up in the 1970s was a whole third world country and she transformed it into a dynamic, modern economy. the way she did that was tough. >> you know, martin, it always struck me that her rhetoric was more strident sometimes on these conservative ideals that she put out there than some of her policy. she didn't try to end some parts of what some deemed as socialist. >> the national health service, the bbc and things like that? that would have been extremely difficult. remember, chuck, the end of her career was not brought about by her rhetoric, but by her policy. it was called the poll tax and it meant it didn't matter whether you were a duke or a refuge collector, a sanitation worker, you would pay the same amount in local authority taxes. that is what provoked riots in britain and remember, also, she was responsible for some of the

most heavy -- >> let's put it in american terms here. the flat tax. that's what she tried to implement. >> which is why people like mitt romney and paul ryan and eric cantor treat her almost as the fourth person of the holy trinity. at the end of the day, i think it wasn't just the rhetoric. remember, also, in the 1980s she unleashed some of the worst race riots because of the excessively overly heavy policing that she encountered in communities and one that i grew up in that resulted in this. there was real domestic strife going on at the same time as you are rightly critiquing that she did some very positive things else where. >> i want to shift, i want to hit two more things on here. one is sort of the glass ceiling that she broke in some ways. obviously, becoming the first lady prime minister. i think political reporters do it, you were picturing president hillary clinton and saying to yourself, okay, how does she

compare to prime minister margaret thatcher. i think a lot of women politicians almost know that they're going to, if they have an executive ambition, a time that they're going to be compared to her on the foreign stage and that's where they want to show the steel spine. is that fair? >> i do think that times have changed for women since the time that margaret thatcher became leader of the conservative party. when she did so, she was grossly underestimated by the peers and the media in britain. they expected, here was a woman, she was never going to be tough and she was the opposite and she took people by surprise. she managed to do it because it was a parliamentary system. she became head of the conservative party and the conservative party was elected into office. and back then a little less true now, you elected the party, not necessarily the leader. that is a very different challenge from the challenge faced by the first presidential candidate here in america. i think we have changed our perception of women leaders and of, you know, whether it is in

business or whether it is in politics. >> did she lead the change of perception? >> you know, she was tougher than most men who have been, i mean, if that's, i think if you look at stereotypes and i think the men around her wilted in her company. but she could also be very charming. she had a relationship with ronald reagan mildly flirtatious and she turned on the kind of thatcher charm. she figured that out. >> go ahead, martin, you want to jump in? >> i agree exactly with what katy has said. the fact that she was elected prime minister was historic in and of itself. what happened thereafter would not undermine the fact of that achievement. it was a -- she had the mouth of marilyn monroe. >> leave it to the french. >> exactly.

>> but you know the other thing she did, i think, that was very important and martin is quite right, anyone who has seen "billy elliot" is how divided they were under margaret thatcher. >> we idlize her in a way. >> i grew up in her era. it was all nonstop protests in the streets of the university raising money for the miners' strikes whether you were on the right or the left, it felt like a divided country. she made britain less classest. the daughter of a grocer. the chancellor was a te, she wa daughter of a grocer and she brought with her through her economic policies a lot of british working class people into the middle class by giving them access to credit. >> the other dominant issue during her time and i say this

because this is what i remember dealing with growing up and her dealings with the ira. this was the dominant, we forget here in the united states, this was another part of the dominant storyline of the thatcher, of the thatcher years. was it not, marten? >> again, chuck, people fail to give credit to john major because it was john and bill clinton who ended up opening negotiations secretly with the ira that came, that brought to fruition the good friday agreement, of course, with senator george mitchell. it was not margaret thatcher. margaret thatcher campaign organizer and manager was killed by the m in 1976. so, she was not that effective. that that kind of iron lady stance seemed to work in some sectors, but didn't work so well

domestically. that was very difficult for her, i think. >> well, you know, i do think that in retrospect, the unions and the breaking of the unions given the state, don't you think, martin, that the country had been in in the 1970s with the power outages. you know, you couldn't get your dead bodies buried in cemeteries. >> nothing was collected. it was terrible. >> the supporters today would say that the union husband tos broken and she did it. >> ushered in some fairly brutal attacks on the business of journalism through rupert murdoch's work. i remember becoming a journalist professional in 1984 just as that began to happen. she was not very kind to journalists at all. >> well, i'm going to leave it a pause there. shockingly, world leaders being unkind to working press. i am used to that myself, anyway. katy kay of the bbc and martin,

i imagine we'll get a lot more from you. i look forward to watching you at 4:00 and watching your remembrances and the things we should be focused on when it comes to margaret thatcher's legacy. thank you for coming in early. >> nice it see you, chuck. we'll continue following this story. the legacy of margaret thatcher. go live to london in just a few minutes to see how britains are remembering her. plus, the president has a big week of domestic politics today. a trip to connecticut on gun control. my first reads of the morning are actually coming up next. first, a look ahead at today's politics planner. the president on the road. and former president clinton with steven colbert. you're watching "the daily rundown" only on msnbc. zap technology.

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we're going to be following all the remembrances out of london later in the show. but there's also some domestic politics on the agenda today. so, i want to do my first reads a little bit later than norming, but get to them right now. tomorrow congress returns from a two-week spring recess to tackle a domestic policy spending hat trick that will go a long way to determining the president's own legacy. when it comes to the big three items guns, immigration and, of course, the budget, the white house testing different strategies on how to engage. the president is leading the charge on guns, taking a back seat on immigration and trying a goldie locks approach on the budget. president obama kicks off a week-long public relations push

on guns today in connecticut where he spoke in december in the days following the newtown shooting. the speech today at the university of hartford will be the second in a week in a state recently hit by a shooting. a last-ditch effort to pressure congress on guns. tomorrow, vice president biden will press for gun legislation at the white house. on wednesday, michelle obama heads to chicago to deliver remarks on gun violence. on thursday, the vice president on "morning joe" for a roundtable discussion focused on gun legislation. meet with newtown family members today. last night on "60 minutes" they shared their stories. >> i ran to the firehouse and frantically was just looking around. >> i just kept texting jimmy every 10 or 15 seconds. ana, question mark. ana, exclamation point.

>> they need not just to look us in the eyes but our children and the lost ones and see those faces and see what's gone. >> it's going to happen, again. it is going to happen, again. and every time, you know, it's somebody else's school. it's somebody else's town. it's somebody else's community until one day you wake up and it's not. >> powerful stuff from "60 minutes." the white house is trying to use that emotion to move votes in congress, trying to keep the storyline focused on gop obstruction rather than the red state democrats that aren't running the get behind bill. by the way, newtown families some expected to fly back with the president on air force one and they're going to begin a week-long lobbying effort of congress as well with the white house giving them support. reminded members both parties applauded when the president called for a vote on guns in his state of the union.

>> now that the cameras are off and not forced to look the newtown families in the face they want to make it harder and filibuster it. if we have a simple up or down vote, we can get this done. >> that's why the families are pushing to get a vote. 13 have threatened to filibuster any gun legislation. they have not ruled out a long stand on the floor. but this morning, there may be a glimmer of progress on some bipartisan negotiations on an expanded background check bill. pattume pat toumey is talking with chuck schumer. well now he's up for re-election in 2016, a presidential year. pennsylvania suburbs will be contested area. gun control popular in the pennsylvania suburbs and his political identity as mr. fiscal conservative and perhaps he has more freedom on cultural issues like guns.

but hill aides believe they will have to strike a deal, frankly, by tomorrow, if this is going to work and the white house is not very optimistic that will happen, according to the reporting being done by casey hunt, our politics reporter. if that failed, they'd say majority leader harry reid could go forward with schumer's background check bill and force the filibuster and willing to have closer votes, even if it fails or tries to put pressure on members for the strategy and on how he asked with don't ask, don't tell. making the gun issue a longer game. but also remember another piece of legislation that took years to get passed. bill clinton pardon on marc rich and enron to pass mccai mccain/feingold. sometimes it takes year. by the way the white house got backup from senator john mccain who condemned the senate republicans who are threatening a filibuster on guns.

>> i don't understand it. the purpose of the united states senate is to debate and to vote and to let the people know where we stand. i don't understand it. what are we afraid of? >> meanwhile, oklahoma senator is shopping his own plan and is in touch regularly with the white house. at this point, the white house will call any gun bill that offers even minimal progress or improvement and enforcement on the law. so, why all the hurry on getting a gun deal done? well this week may be the president's last opportunity to keep focus on guns before the issue is overrun by immigration and the budget. domestic issue, where republicans have an incentive to deal. >> the politics of self-dop self-deportation are behind us. the rank and file republican party member is now understanding that there has to

be an earned pathway to citizenship. >> because the white house is optimistic because they make negotiating a deal possible, the president to the sidelines. senate democrats advised against a heavy hand fearing an "obama bill" would scare off republican partners like marco rubio that would be instrumental in getting a deal through the house. on sunday, white house adviser dan pfeiffer dodged question after question on sticking points in negotiations, deferring to the senate's gang of eight at every single opportunity. >> we have been working very closely with the gang of eight. we feel very good at the product that they are working on is a product that is completely consistent with what the president has put forward. what they are looking at and what has been talked about in the gang of eight proposal is 100% consistent with what the president is doing. >> exactly when will we get a deal done or even introduced on immigration? depends on who you listen to. >> we hope that we can have a

bipartisan agreement among the eight of us on comprehensive immigration reform by the end of this week. >> we've got an agreement between labor and business about the guest worker program, but we're revisiting that and we're hoping to get this thung doneinn the next couple weeks. >> week, couple weeks. they're on the same pagish. mccain responded to conservative criticism that democrats are rushing a bill through without naming names. >> some are saying, wow, we're not having enough hearings. look, first of all, we know the issue, but, second of all, the judiciary committee will act. there will be amendments and debates. i reject this notion that something is being railroaded through. >> keep an eye on marco rubio's, then, again, as the "miami herald " reporter points out, he

walked away from big deals before when he was the florida house speaker. finally, on wednesday, the president will formally send his budget to congress. of course, we have the early word on the budget. both the right and the left now have reasons to hate it, apparently. speaker boehner responded in a statement "if the president believes these modest entitlement programs savings are needed to help shore up these programs, there's no reason they should be held hostage for more tax hikes." >> but if speaker boehner's position, as he said in that statement, remains his position, then we will not make progress. because what this president will not do is come in after getting re-elected and enact the romney republican plan. >> i would say to speaker boehner's statement. if you're looking for the answer to the question as to why the approval rating of congressional republicans is at a historical low, you have to look no further

than that statement. their view is my way or the highway. >> republicans have been hoping that the president would pick a fight with members of his own party are trying to draw attention to how furious the left is. senator mcconnell spokesman e-mailed politico, "i see what they're doing here. what they're trying to sell. but their big problem is right now is within their own ranks, nice try." telling the white house that obama's really bad idea which changes how social security benefits are calculated is unacceptable. an electoral-style push to defeat the president's plan. they have polling, they say, whose seniors say it should be separate from discussions. the poll over 50, 70% the cost of living increases are calculated. pfeiffer responded sunday to critics from the president's own party. >> look, this is compromise and compromise means sfoeks on both

sides are not happy. >> question whether the anger from the left makes republicans give it a second look. senator lindsey graham appears to be in that category. >> the president showing a little bit of leg here. this is somewhat encouraging. his overall budget is not going to make it, but he has sort of made a step forward in the entitlement reform process that would allow a guy like me generating more revenue. >> there you go. more taxes. bottom line is, some republicans may be asking themselves, "when is the next time we're going to get cover from a democratic president to touch entitlement programs"? this is what a lot of republicans are calling for. right now lindsey graham praising him on the republican side. standing up for newtown. we'll talk to the congresswoman who represents the town struck by strategy and come to push stricter gun laws. who is the most recent president to not veto a single

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lapierre. >> wayne remipnds me of the clowns at the circus, they get the most attention. that's what he's paid to do. this guy is so out of whack. it's unbelievable. 92% of the american people want universal background checks. >> congresswoman, just react to both your governor's new laws and what your sense is that whether this push for new gun control is stalled or not in congress. >> well, i'm highly supportive of what happened here in connecticut and i think it is a template for what we ought to be doing in congress. here in connecticut, which is a big gun state, we have arms manufacturers here, it's part of our economic base and my district, for example, has many gun owners and hunters. and the home of the largest sponsor of gun shows is actually based in newtown. yet, here in connecticut, we are

able to listen to the people and to get a bipartisan bill passed, comrehensive reforms that enhance public safety and that's what we need to tightly focus on o. what can we do to make our communities and make our children safer? that's all we're asking for in congress. >> well, the president's coming up to connecticut this evening, making a speech at the university of hartford. but one of the points is to try to rekindle the emotional connection that newtown had with washington leaders there for a brief period of time that seems to be waning. is that what is needed here to sort of get members of congress back and get these newtown families back in front of members of congress? >> i think that helps underscore the cost of political inaction. i'm reminded with your reporting earlier today of maggie thatcher. we need to be strong. leadership is about being strong. and gabby gifford said it, as well. we need to be bold and we need to be strong here. and this is a time, not to back

down to special interests, but to do what's right for the american people who overwhelmingly support the common sense elements. let's be very clear. criminal background checks on every gun sale is no threat to law abiding gun owner any more than registering your car or getting a license. it doesn't make sense to oppose that. simply making it a federal crime to traffic or buy guns for someone else. also, completely common sense. so, i'm going to be pushing my colleagues very hard. our senators will, and the families will, as well. >> the political reality is this even expanded background check, the easiest one of the four big bills being pushed in congress. that is struggling to get the necessary 60 votes they need in the u.s. senate. so, how does this get, how does anything get through the republican house? >> well, first we have to get it through the senate, as you

properly note. i'll note that we did get the violence against women act through. i think every member of congress will be hearing from their constituents that they want their children to be safe in school. they want them to be safe walking to the bus stop and going to school. we need to be safer in our communities and this is something, it is common sense. common sense gun safety laws and stronger laws to protect every citizen in america. i think they'll be hearing that from their own people. >> elizabeth esty a freshman democrat from connecticut. the district that republicans newtown. thank you for coming on this morning. >> thank you, chuck. up next, tributes are poring in for margaret thatcher who died today at the age of 87. we'll be live in britain. is north korea about to carry out another nuclear test? we have the latest from seoul on

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the legacy will be the fact that she served her country so well. she saved our country and that she showed immense courage in doing so and people will be learning about what she did and her achievements in decades, probably centuries to come. that was british prime minister david cameron remembering margaret thatcher just moments ago. bucking hm palace released a statement, "the queen is sad to hear the news of the death of baroness thatcher and her majesty will be sending a private message of sympathy to the family." nbc michelle kaczynski live for us in london. michelle, what are britains saying today about lady thatcher? >> oh, there's just a huge

outpouring for such a remarkable, unique and also controversial figure. this morning her family confirmed that she passed away peacefully following a stroke. she was 87 years old and the past few years she had been in declining health, also suffering from dementia. now, as britain's only female prime minister and its longest serving during the 20th century, she earned that nickname, the iron lady for her unwavering conservative policies during a tough time here in britain. economic struggle, mass union strikes and protests and ira bombings. in fact, you know, to this day you will from time to time hear people arguing animatedly whether over what she did at the time was for the better or the worse. she was ronald reagan counterpart and orchestrating the end of the cold war and some transformed modern britain. shrinking the governments, privatizing state industries and lowering taxes also shaped other governments at the time, as well

as world politics. chuck? >> michelle kaczynski reminding folks here in the united states that it is a much more divisive, divisive political figure margaret thatcher was in great britain than perhaps she was here in the united states. michelle, thank you very much. now, to the escalating tensions with north korea and the possibility that we could find out what kim jong-un is really up to in the next week or so. the u.s. is watching two upcoming anniversaries possible dates for some action of some sort. the first is april 15th, that's the birthky birthday of country's founder and april 25th marks the creation of the north korean army. today, the north said it would recall 51,000 workers from the factory zone it shares with south korea. severing their last economic link. south korean officials believe the north may test fire another missile as soon as this week, but they've now backed off warnings that pyongyang was on the verge of a nuclear test.

dan pfeiffer said they've seen this before. >> this is absolutely a situation of concern. this is, but this is a pattern of behavior we've seen for the north koreans many times. >> nevertheless, the u.n. secretary-general is warning that kim jong-un can't go on challenging the community. no country should be allowed to sell chaos. he could end up causing a war, even if he never intended to do it. >> i don't know what kind of game this young man is playing. >> i could see a major war happening if the north koreans overplay their hand this time because the public and south korea and the united states and the whole region is fed up with this guy. >> nbc jim maceda is live in seoul, south korea. i keep wondering what is china going to do? are they now the key actor here to sort of calm these tensions

down? >> well, hopefully they are. hopefully they will be. if yesterday's tough talk by the chinese government is any indicati indication, they are getting pretty much fed up with their nephew to the south. we're anticipating for the first time, really, as secretary kerry comes in here on friday a joint, if you will, diplomatic push. i think it's rare, you know better than i do, chuck, to see china and the united states on the same page, on any issue. but it looks like this time they are. and they may well say to themselves, well, we need to work together now to try, somehow, to try this diplomatic path forward since nothing else has worked. i would like to come back to where i am, chuck. i'm in seoul and the usouth koreans are going about their

life like nothing is going on. they're stoic people and they lived through civil war. you dent get outward signs of panic or worry here, but, still, the south korean forces are on a high state of alert and everyone now really expects to see that missile test coming in the next few days, as early as wednesday, chuck. >> i know some people fear it will come when secretary kerry is actually in country there in south korea. jim maceda on the beat for us in seoul, thank you, sir. coming up, i've got the senate madness, plus, the gaggle will be here. talking about the american political legacy of margaret thatcher. the white house soup of the day, tomato basil. we'll be right back.

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wolverines but the more important matchup is happening online right now. our senate madness tournament has reached the final round. the finalist as voted on by our readers and viewers ted kennedy beat lbj narrowly thanks to the ted kennedy institute putting out to vote. go to firstread.nbcnews.com. trivia, though, we asked who was the most recent president to not veto a single bill? james garfield perhaps because his presidency only lasted seven months but also seven other presidents who never exercised their veto power. congratulations to today's winner, timothy demarco. if you've got a political trivia question for us, e-mail

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margaret thatcher was a very well known here in the united states as a close confidant of ronald reagan. it's an understatement to say she left a lasting legacy in the united states. let's bring in perry jr. and susan paige. at the beginning of the show, i wanted to have more of a british reaction to her and. margaret thatcher's impact on american politics, susan paige, to me what was remarkable is how much american conservatives idolized her. >> and the partnership between her and president reagan was real and continuing. she got elected in 1979.

she was relatively new to power when president reagan took office. they formed a new partnership and a partnership with a third world figure, mccale gorbechev. her endorsement of mckahl gorbechev -- >> she was the leading figure before ronald reagan to jump the border. but there was another impact that she had, which was this is a tremendous quote we found from mark penn and what he said he was doing during hillary clinton's presidential campaign. penn tried out, in this flattering memo, it was margaret thatcher as a role model. we are more thatcher than anyone else. there is a yearning for a kind of tough single parent. and he wanted hillary clinton to model herself after margaret

thatcher. do you think she'll still be doing that if she runs again? >> no. i think that serves as a model for leadership, but on the campaign trail, it plays differently. if we look back at hillary clinton's 2008 campaign and some of her most memorable moments were the ones where she showed sensitivity. >> probably for certain reporters of a certain age, you can't help -- you know, we haven't had an american woman president. the closest thing for americans to see a woman world leader is margaret thatcher. >> rather than compare someone to thatcher, if you can compare hillary clinton to a governor, clinton has gathered foreign policy where we see her more like a mini president in that stature. she's gotten thatcher already. >> and you know what strikes me? there are western world american leaders do want to make sure they look at that. >> you have to look at, i think if you're a woman, political

figure, you have to look tough. you see that with margaret thatcher, hillary clinton, with angela merkel in germany. >> that's what i feel. all right. i apologize for the short gaggle, but a big day to remember margaret thatcher. shameless plugs. you first. >> happy birthday. >> oh, here we go. >> happy birthday. also go louisville. >> we're rooting for louisville in our house, too. happy birthday, but shameless plug for the wichita shockers. made it to the final four. screwed up everybody's brackets. >> nothing wrong with that. >> i say this. happy birthday to msnbc's own lawyering gronkowski. she and i share a birthday. that's it for this edition of the daily run youp. coming up next, chris jansing. [ male announcer ] here's a word you should keep in mind. unbiased.

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