asked you why you were awake. producer john tower, the answers, please. >> waiting for my wife to finish putting on her make-up so we can go to the hospital to have a baby. >> oh, big day for you, zach. advice, three things you're not going to say to your wife as she's in labor. does it hurt? when should we have the next one? don't even bring that up yet, give it a couple months. and don't ever tell her it'll be over soon. she'll let you know. "morning joe" starts right now. . ♪ kevin without question, i'm not sure i could have or the players gotten over that emotional trauma if he didn't say to me, coach, i'll be fine, we've got to win the game. and he said it three times, i said, hold on, i've got everybody in. i'm not sure any of us could've beaten a team like duke unless he gathered us together. >> a lot of people didn't expect us to get this far.

and a lot of people didn't expect us to get past the second round. and, you know, we fought. we fought all the way up until this point. but louisville was a better team today and they were deserving of the win. >> hey, hey. good morning, it's tuesday, april 9th, welcome to "morning joe." congratulations to louisville. i'm too old to stay up that late to watch these games anymore. we'll watch highlights later on. >> right. >> we'll pretend we were very moved by the triumph of the human spirit. >> adversity. >> tough season. >> with us now, jon meacham, the author of "thomas jefferson: the art of power," the book that pushed bill o'reilly out of the number one spot. where do you go if you're bill

o'reilly? where do you go? who do you kill next? >> caesar. >> roger -- >> no? i'll tell you what, there are a lot of books coming out. >> that's right. >> and there are times he's wanted to write that book. we have al hunt with us, as well. he's a columnist for bloomberg view and has not written a book with the word killing in it. also political commentator, cookie roberts, and in new york, willie geist. we were asleep, tell us about the game last night. >> believe it or not, joe, i stayed up to watch it. and i woke up this morning and i saw video of people filling the streets of louisville dancing, celebrating flipping over cars and it was for one reason, to celebrate the birthday of joe scarborough which falls today. a significant birthday, shall we say, joe. fair to say? >> i'm turning 36. >> 36. >> anyway, isn't that exciting? >> you aged well. >> i have. you believe this?

i don't look a day over 29. all right. let's -- willie, thank you for bringing up something i didn't want to bring up. so tell us about the game. how was it? >> much more on that story throughout the show, by the way. louisville, it was a great, exciting game. louisville ended up winning by six points in the end, but they were down 12 in the first half. and the story in the first half was this kid spike from michigan, a freshman, a little 5'11" backup to the star trey burke. got a couple of fouls on him. this kid comes in and scores 17 points in the first half. >> my goodness. >> he had two scholarship offers, one from appalachian state, one was from michigan. so he was the story of the first half. but luke hancock, the bench player for louisville was the story throughout for louisville. he was the most outstanding player, had 22 points, but it was a great back and forth. it was tight right until the end. some bad calls, like the one

right there. a really fun game to watch, great athletes. and louisville, the number one overall seed in the tournament coming in ends up winning in the end. and rick pitino, the first coach in ncaa history to win national championships at two different schools. he won at kentucky in '96 and now he's won at louisville in 2003. and that, of course, is kevin ware holding up the final net after he broke his leg eight days ago in that gruesome injury. louisville is the national champ. >> rick pitino pretty good for both sides of the state. >> playing tonight in new orleans in the women's. >> who are they playing? >> uconn. >> uconn. >> sorry for asking a follow-up question. >> right. i knew notre dame was in there. >> really, we should note that the road for 2014 for the louisville begins today.

>> all right. i apologize. >> let's go to news. president obama took lawmakers to task for hedging on new gun reforms in the wake of the newtown school shooting. at a speech yesterday in west hartford, connecticut, with relatives of some of the victims in attendance, the president pressed congress for action. >> connecticut, this is not about me. this is not about politics. this is about doing the right thing for all the families who are here that have been torn apart by gun violence. it's about them. and all the families going forward so we can prevent this from happening again. that's what it's about. it's about the law enforcement officials putting their lives at risk. that's what this is about. this is not about politics. and yet some folks back in washington are already floating the idea that they may use political stunts to prevent votes on any of these reforms.

think about that. they're not just saying they'll vote no on ideas that almost all americans support, they're saying they'll do everything they can to even prevent any votes on these provisions. they're saying your opinion doesn't matter. and that's not right. that is not right. we need to vote. >> we've got to expect more from ourselves. we've got to expect more from congress. we've got to believe that, you know, every once in a while we set politics aside, we just do what's right. we've got to believe that. and if you believe that, i'm asking you to stand up. if you believe in the right to

bear arms like i do but think we should prevent an irresponsible few from inflicting harm, stand up. >> the mother of two sons that went to school at sandy hook, one of them dylan was among the 20 children killed. after connecticut passed the toughest laws in the country, she said her expectations of lawmakers in washington are just as high. >> sometimes the waves of sadness are so great they threaten to drown me. i stand before you now and ask you to stand with me. with all the families, those in sandy hook and those in all the other towns and cities across our great nation that have lost loved ones to gun violence. help this be the moment when real change begins. help this be the beginning of turning tragedy into transformation for us all.

>> tom coburn came out and said it might be better if you actually know what the gun legislation is before you talk about filibustering the gun legislation. but, you look at these images and you look at the fact that 92% of americans believe that criminals should have background checks before they're able to buy guns, and you look at the president talking there and it's really hard to figure out what the political calculation is. >> well, the filibuster is terribly abused and has been for the last 30 years. this is really one of the most egregious abuses -- >> on a 92% -- republicans are going to filibuster a 92% issue here in our latest poll it was 87%. basically a 90/10 in something that involves the massacre of 20 first grade children. is anybody awake in my party on the hill? >> well, joe, i share your outrage. i suspect in the end they'll back down on some of this.

i think the lindsey grahams, john mccains, but back down in part because i'm not sure they can win. i don't think they can hold the republican caucus together on filibustering that. on the more generic question of why opposed parts of the bill, this i is 60 years old. the problem we've always had is the 13% votes on that issue. and whether that's still true or not, i don't know. i think what will change gun control and i hope something will get through. i think they're trying to work on something. what will get it through will be when some suburban republicans lose in november because of their pro-gun votes. >> and it's important, also, to focus on democrats, as well, that are up in 2014. what's mary going to do? >> well, she's -- >> in the state of louisiana. >> she's got a tough road on a bunch of issues. >> right. >> that democrats are pushing. louisiana, you know, is not a

liberal state. and she and mark prior in arkansas and joe manchin in west virginia all have this -- >> kay hagan. >> kay hagan in north carolina. but by and large where the democrats are is shoring up the coalition that elected barack obama. we heard the president say it's not about politics, it's not about politics, it's not about politics. but the politics are that women support gun control by 20 points more than men do. and so we're seeing happening is the president and others in his party saying, okay, who elected us? women, minorities and young people. >> right. >> and what are you seeing? gun control, immigration for the minoritie minorities, and gay marriage for the young people. and so that's the politics we're looking at. >> so, john, yesterday republicans were upset that i talked about people filibustering a bill that would

allow us to stop rapists, violent rapists from buying guns. if you're kay hagan in north carolina and you're mary leandro, and you're running for reelection this year, do you really want to go to women's groups and say, you know, i didn't have the courage to vote to make sure we could have criminal background checks so rapists couldn't go and buy guns, so child molesters that had used guns to -- to perpetrate their crimes, so people that had been convicted of manslaughter, violent manslaughter but got off because of probation or because of overcrowding in prisons, i didn't have the courage to stand up to the 7% of americans who think that rapists should get a free pass and not have background checks. how would you like to be kay hagan or mary leandro and take that back to the women's groups who are giving you money. i don't mean to be that harsh about it. i was that harsh with my republicans. same thing holds true. this is true. anybody that votes against

criminal background checks are saying, you know what, let the rapists, the people who have committed violent manslaughter and gotten out and people committed assault and battery using a gun or robbed households, we don't want to know what their background is. let's give them a free pass. who can do that in the democratic party? >> i don't think those are talking points you want to walk in with. but i do think that -- in some level, the president -- party definition has to mean something. you know, the party -- a party position has to mean something. you have a president making an emotional effective political effort here. political -- he says it's not about politics. what he means is it's not about partisanship. everything's about politics in the sense it's about how we are together. and he's out there working, and i don't know who provides them the kind of cover they need. i think joe manchin gets a big thumbs up here. >> oh, it's remarkable what joe

has done from the beginning. >> early on with no cover. you know, he hadn't calculated. it was the morning after, i think. >> after, and -- >> monday after. >> he came on our show, and here's a guy, "a" plus nra, and he said enough. >> he did what senators are supposed to do. took a position on a national issue without polling it. >> but for those women, for mary landrieu and kay hagan. those groups are not going to have a choice. the people they're going to be running against are going to be against everything else those women are for. so al is right. what they worry about is the 7%, the 13%, whatever it is on the issue who just feel so strongly about it and get out there as you well know, joe. they not only vote on that issue, they raise money on that issue. they put up terrifying ads on that issue. and, and the other side doesn't mobilize. >> well, i agree -- i also think

they exaggerate cokie, we hear these stories, 1994, lost because of gun control. >> i never believed that. >> everything was losing in '94. >> by the way, people that supported gun control were the same people that voted for bill clinton's tax increase, were the same people that voted -- supported health care, were the same people that supported nafta, the same people that supported -- i talked about gun control. that's not what drove people that year. >> no. >> it did in the republican primary, but certainly not the general election. >> no, i groo e wiagree with yo share your view. pat toomey is a very conservative republican from pennsylvania is looking at chester and montgomery and delaware counties there, bucks county, the big philadelphia suburban counties. and they're not going to vote for somebody who votes for guns. those are the big vote-rich

counties and that's what pat toomey, i think is calculating. >> much more democratic. >> they are, but that republican win is going to do well there. >> whatever, willie geist, any time we even talk about criminal background checks, you have people saying there they go again, they want to shred the constitution, they want to start a national gun registry. well, if that were the case, and if somebody used that against pat toomey, pat could say, well, then why was wayne lapierre for it in 1999? right? if it is such a great challenge to the second amendment in 2013, why wasn't it in 1999, willie? >> that's absolutely right. he was for this, wayne lapierre was clearly for universal background checks. and that would have background checks on commercial sales and would not have background checks on private sales. so even that has a loophole in

it and is less than president obama and gun safety advocates would want. joe, we've talked about this, forget for a second the right thing to do. but politically, if you're republicans or if you're a gun rights advocate, you've already won. there's not going to be an assault weapons ban. they're not going to limit the size of magazines. if you give on this, you look like you're giving more than you are. if you say, okay. we'll go along with some form of background checks, it strikes me as smart politically to look flexible, but you've really won already on the big issues. >> and that also, cokie is why mitch mcconnell is coming out. it doesn't cost any of these people anything to say i'm going to filibuster this bill and, you know, the conservative base, so now mitch mcconnell gets -- >> mitch mcconnell is up for election himself. >> he gets positive press back home, the tea partiers don't like him. but seriously, is mitch mcconnell going to vote against background checks? at the end of the day? >> at the end of the day, probably not.

at the end of the day, probably not. but it is a, you know, all the subtleties of what wayne lapierre said years ago and all of that are never part of this debate. >> right. >> this debate is black and white -- >> they're coming to get your guns. >> exactly right. >> don't look at my gun. don't even look at my gun. you are undermining the second amendment. it is -- and, you know, that's why they don't want to debate on the senate floor. because, you know, it's sort of like -- i've been asking about afghanistan. why for five years i've been asking, why are we in afghanistan? and the answer's always because of pakistan. why aren't we in pakistan? we can't. so we have to be -- but it doesn't really help in pakistan. no, but we need to be, there's not a good answer. it's the same thing, you ask, why can't we do criminal background checks? well, it might lead to a national registry. why can't we ban assault weapons? well, because they're not really assault weapons. what are they? well, they're semiautomatics. then you'll want to get, you

know, next you'll want to get my handgun. it's never about the issue that you're debating. they always move the ball. and the point, i think the best point of this is we're going to be talking to joe biden on thursday. and we're going to sit down. >> and going to be listening to joe biden. >> we're going to be talking to joe and we're going to listen and sit down for an exclusive round table talk with the vice president on gun violence. and would love to have you ask questions. we've invited a lot of people there. and i think this is one of the most telling things. we invited the nra several times to come and just sit down and have a talk with joe biden. we're going to have a couple of pro gun advocates. we're going to have a couple of people pro gun safety advocates and we invited the nra. and they said we're too busy. and alex -- he said, are you sure -- you say this guy is

shredding the -- you've got a chance to sit down for an hour and talk to the man you claim is shredding the constitution. we're too busy that week. they don't want to debate. how do you debate? how do you fight against making sure that rapists and child molesters have to have a background check? >> well, and in addition to the criminal elements, there's also the fact that the greatest amount of gun violence in this country is suicide. and the idea that you might have to wait a little while before you get a gun so people can make sure you're not going to take it immediately into the parking lot and kill yourself is also a useful thing. but nobody wants to talk about that either. >> right. >> i don't care how big a conspiracy person you are, the idea that the federal government's going to be sending people all over this land to go in search to try to confiscate guns is so ridiculous, but you know, joe, they raised a lot of

money. >> they raised a lot of money. you know why it is so ridiculous, jon meacham, did you know you could raise an army of hunters in tennessee with shotguns, hunters in wisconsin with shotguns. there are 300 million guns out there, the federal government there are enough guns out there. you talk about a well-armed militia. we've got it out there of law-abiding gun owners and the majority of those gun owners believe we shouldn't let gangs pass guns from one criminal to another criminal. we should stop gun trafficking. the republicans and democrats are standing in the way of that on capitol hill. some democrats up this year. this same thing with background checks for criminals. >> yeah. this does go to an ancient american impulse which is the richard hofsteter. the idea he wrote about this

october 1964, he said that the paranoid style in the view of the person who feels paranoid, it is a global conspiracy, it is -- they're about to come after you personally, directly into your home, they have access to means you don't have, they control the press, they're the smooth sophisticates. >> you're describing the masons. >> there you go. >> i've been saying, we've got to worry about the masons. have you seen that big building in old town? >> it was mad and fevered as this conversation. >> except the difference now is the money. the difference is the ability to raise the money on it. >> yeah. >> and then, of course, and it is very much part of our history and our character. but now it's become a political tool in a way that is much more effective. >> i won't argue with anyone from louisiana about money and politics. >> good. >> however, however -- >> that's wise. >> it is true that, you know, we saw in the last election money doesn't always buy the result

you want. >> no, it doesn't. hey, still ahead on the show, joined live onset by prime minister tony blair. going to be talking to him about margaret thatcher and dr. brzezinski will be here and michael nutter, and melody barnes. and up next, the top stories in the politico playbook. but first, here's bill karins with a check on the forecast. what an unbelievably beautiful day yesterday. >> yeah, and it's even better, joe. today the cherry blossoms are going to be popping out. that's my gift to you. d.c. today, beautiful weather, up and down the east coast, no problems, midwest, you're the ones that are going to suffer. it's a dangerous day today. we haven't had any severe weather outbreaks, but we could see a minor one later on tonight. right now, snowing in colorado, the windchill is zero in denver right now. it was in the 60s yesterday, and now the windchill is zero and it's snowing hard from wyoming up into nebraska and south dakota. the front side of the storm,

very classic set-up. areas of yellow, slight risk. means you need to know the possibility of storms. if you're in this red coloring, though, a moderate risk of severe storms right through the heart of tornado alley, i'm sure we'll have the helicopters during the sunlight hours trying to spot them and follow them. giving everyone the best warning possible. we're talking this area here from tulsa to oklahoma city, to ardmore, to wichita falls. does not include the dallas-ft. worth area. the tornado threat is primarily to the north of you. it's an area of this country that probably goes through this about three or four times a year. and today's your afternoon you have to be on your toes and keep an eye to the sky. otherwise the snow part of the storm, it's a big snowstorm from wyoming right across the interstates there, especially through interstate 80, rapid city and even minnesota could get into some of the snow on this. this is your big classic spring storm in the middle of the country. and for the east coast, i saved the best for last for you, 80 degrees in miami and guess what,

we're going to watch the 80s up the coast to new york city. even boston should be 70 degrees. enjoy it, leave the jacket at home, east coast. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ male announcer ] if she keeps serving up sneezes...

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all your devices connected by one simple plan on the powerful network. record video. connect more. so you can do more. the share everything plan from verizon. add additional devices like the samsung galaxy camera for $5 monthly access. ♪ let's take a look at the morning papers. "usa today," beloved actors and queen of teen. annette funicello has died. she first made her mark at the age of 12 as a mouseketeer, and it wasn't long before she was getting 6,000 pieces of fan mail a week. how many of those from you, al? >> well, al and i remembered -- >> of course.

>> it's cruel he would remind us of that, isn't it? >> but frankie and annette obviously were inseparable and teen sensations, and they had a series of beach movies, right? >> well, that was later. we remember the m-i-c-k-e-y. >> and that was later. annette funicello was 70. willie? >> from our parade of papers, dallas morning news after 17 months on the job, ron johnson has been replaced as ceo of jc penney. the shape up at the struggling retailer comes after weeks of falling stock prices and a fourth quarter loss of $552 million during johnson's tenure, jc penney laid off about 19,000 employees. >> wow. >> not a real resume builder for mr. johnson. rutgers university is going to be launching a full probe into how the school handled claims of abuse by former coach mike rice. governor chris christie says he

helped manage the situation while he was on vacation and explained when he learned about the tape he told the athletic director, quote, you need to get rid of this coach and you need to get rid of him right away. >> you have lots of successful coaches in this country at the college level who don't act this way. lots and lots who have been successful. yet, they don't conduct themselves like animals. and, you know, one of my questions to folks was, what parent would let this animal back into their living room to try to recruit their son? after this video. >> and, of course, willie, the next question has to be what president of this university after hearing in chris christie's own words, this animal was doing what he was doing at basketball practice would not at least take time to watch the tape. i'm not really sure how the president of the university survives that. that goes all the way to the top of chain of command. >> coach is gone, athletic director is gone. but as you said at the end of last year, the president was

told about the tapes, the content of those tapes and signed off on a three-game suspension and $50,000 fine. put another way, we talked about this last week, if there'd been a professor at rutgers, these are public employees who had thrown test tubes or pick whatever it is in the classroom, one of the students caught on camera berating the students, do you think he would've survived or a president who knew about that would survived that? >> no way. the "chicago tribune," the ratings for the best and worst airlines are out. at the bottom of the airline quality ratings is united. >> big surprise. >> rounding out the worst, express jet, skywest, american eagle, and american. passenger complaints overall were up in 2012 20%. virgin america was number one, jetblue, airtran, and hawaii airlines. >> that's not fair. >> we all fly -- >> who had a bad experience flying to hawaii.

>> exactly. exactly. >> air detroit would not get a good rating. air hawaii gets a good rating. >> no doubt about it. let's talk about delta, though, i always fly delta, i'm from the south and cokie, as you know, they say when you die before you go to heaven you've got to go through hartsville. there's always a layover there. and delta, you know, five years ago they were horrific. they were terrible, they were losing my bags, they were rude. it was extraordinary. i started noticing about a year ago they really started turning things around. >> they have -- the airline is much better. but atlanta is still atlanta. and having gone through it twice this week, i mean, that football or five football fields that you have to run down to get from one concourse to another after you've gotten off the train -- >> right. >> it is tough -- >> we could talk about atlanta all day. >> concourse "c." >> it's unbelievable. >> the hamburgers aren't quite

up to snuff. >> atlanta has turned it around. >> sherman -- >> it's unbelievable. and willie, i'm sorry, we fly all the time, we've got to talk about it. a lot of people who watch this show fly all the time too. jetblue, man, that is what a successful airline jetblue has become. >> absolutely. by the way, chick-fil-a in the atlanta airport. it's okay with me. jetblue, give you leg room, something to do, they've got a tv in there and they're on time. virgin america is in a league of its own. they don't have a lot of routes yet. but jetblue, yeah, they get better all the time. >> but virgin is pretty remarkable airline, as well. anyway. so the "washington post," if one of these would have a direct from new york to pensacola, i would put them on the top of my list every day. the "washington post," thieves stole 5.5 tons of nutella from a

parked trailer near frankfurt, germany, mika brzezinski is one of the top suspects in this investigation. in the same town, thief thieves stole 5 tons of coffee last month. someone made off with 34,000 cans of energy drinks. >> wow. >> the nutella is worth an estimated $20,000. >> what is this? a german costco? why is all that food in one place? >> how do you even do it? how do you steal 5 tons of nutella? >> i don't know. >> not to mention why. >> what do you do with it? >> all right. willie, we're befuddled here. why don't you take us to politico? >> there's some jacked up germans right about now. >> never a good thing. >> never. you get them too jacked up and suddenly -- >> no. >> they're going into austria. i'm sorry. >> when you get to politico in a

second, but i'm surprised, joe, you haven't brought up the big story in new york this morning. on the front page of both tabloids. >> yeah. >> we've got crooky monster. i'm sure you've been following the story on "the daily news." "tough cookie." a woman and her 2-year-old child visiting from india. apparently she had glamour shots made up. >> clearly. >> she was in time square. and they have these characters unsanctioned by "sesame street." apparently one was so annoyed that mom didn't give a tip to cookie monster that he gave a little shove to the 2-year-old. and now he's been brought inside a new york courtroom and released on $1,000 bond. so this woman is very upset and made it to the front page of the tabloid. >> these guys are creepy. i thought, oh, that's so great, i started to walk away and he grabbed my forearm and said, hey, dad, how about something for the effort.

he's got -- >> hi, little boy. there's the elmo thing and grabs dad for $2. it's really weird. >> they are creeps and the thing is, it's not like they're hiding, you know, in the east village on 8th street. they're across the street from 30 rock all the time. you have to knock over like elmo to get through. we know what joey's doing these days. strange people. >> i think we better call mayor bloomberg on this. >> yeah, we need to do something about that. >> now let's go to "politico." >> here with us now the chief white house correspondent for "politico," mike allen with a look at the playbook. good morning. >> good morning, willie. and if your playbook joe scarborough omitted the best fact about delta. it's the most likely to have inflight wi-fi. >> another reason to love delta. let's talk about your lead story on "politico" this morning,

target cost of immigration reform. we're in the middle of the gun debate, immigration comes next. what are you writing about specifically this morning? >> yeah, willie, and this is something i found out. we're going to report in in "politico" playbook very shortly. the gang of eight on immigration which is going to have the senate's deal, looks like it's coming toward a deal, but it could be a couple more weeks. originally had been hope they'd be able to get their language together. this week, the senate comes back. but now, there's a few hurdles and they say it could be a couple more weeks. those hurdles include, and joe will really enjoy this, home state farm interests. senator patrick leahy of vermont is concerned about dairy farmers. cokie also will appreciate this, chuck schumer of new york concerned about the apple pickers. so their needs to have to be worked out with the western growers who are driving this debate. also as you mentioned, the cost

is going to be a big point of debate. conservatives are sort of taking this as their way to attack a deal. the heritage foundation is going to be out with a report shortly saying that the cost is not just in the border enhancements, but also in the potential liability for obama care, other government programs, the senate is going to put out a bill if they come to this deal that's revenue neutral, but the house which has its own gang says that their bill will show a significant cost of the government. >> if you blow down the opposition, according to you implies, it's too expensive to do immigration reform. mike allen, thanks so much for a look inside the playbook. and i trust there might be a birthday wish somewhere in the play book today. >> might be our favorite 36-year-old. >> good. we'll look for that this morning. thanks so much. still ahead on "morning joe," an emotional win for rick pitino and the cardinals. we'll show you the highlights next in sports. [ male announcer] surprise -- you're having triplets.

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welcome back to "morning joe." 6:41. give you some highlights from the game we mentioned at the top of the show. louisville is waking up as the ncaa national champion. but early on did not look good

for rick pitino and the cardinals. trey burke came out hot early, louisville down by as many as 12 in the first half. burke picked up a couple of fouls and had to sit. that opened the door for freshman backup, 17 points in the first half including four three-pointers. it was albreck with four. the tournament's most outstanding player, luke hancock single handedly brought louisville back in this game. he hit four three pointers in the first half, as well. cutting michigan's first half lead to one. in the second half, tim hardaway jr. with the throwdown, his dad likes that. the momentum turned on a late call. michigan down three with just over five minutes left. trey burke with an incredible athletic block. clean as they come. they called it a foul. got two shots. could have been the turning point, louisville took a five-point lead and never looked back from there. great, entertaining, exciting

athletic game, louisville's first championship since 1986. the first year the ncaa adopted the three-point shot. kevin ware, he had that horrifying injury last week, but was able to cut down the net and celebrate with his teammates. as i mentioned earlier, rick pitino becomes the first coach in ncaa history to win a national championship with two different schools. one with kentucky in 1996, and moving over to louisville in 2013. still ahead on "morning joe," mitch mcconnell announces he will join a group of republicans to filibuster harry reid's gun legislation. at this point, is there any compromise possible? what comes out of all this? we're going to talk next to senator tim kaine of virginia. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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live shot of the capitol. a beautiful day in washington today. it's going to get up in the mid-80s. >> it's been freezing. >> so i live in the arctic tundra. i got off the plane yesterday and i went outside of reagan national and, boom, the smell of cherry blossoms hit me. they have them right up there. boy, it is -- >> it's what washington does best. >> it is. and you never realize the difference because i've lived in washington, i've lived in new york and points north of new york. you never realize the difference in weather especially in march and april. >> this is a really beautiful city. and we have lady byrd johnson to thank for that. >> we do. >> she went around and planted tens of thousands of trees and bulbs and all of that. and it is so beautiful.

>> it is. it really is. and today it's going to be beautiful and about 85 degrees. with us now, now that our weather report is done. tim kaine. you have an op-ed this morning. entitled "let the senate vote on gun violence measures." and is it going to happen? >> joe, i sure pray it is. we can't afford to have this opportunity and then shirk the responsibility. and that's what my editorial is about. we need to be voting on these proposals. in the editorial i say i'm going to vote for the background record check. i will vote for limitations on high capacity magazines, i'll also vote for limitation on combat-style weapons. i haven't heard from my constituents about anything with the frequency and volume as i have about this over the last 90 days, but i'm ready to vote. and i think the american public expect it. and the one thing i will say to my colleagues is don't worry about the nra. you know, i represent the state where the nra, its headquarters are in virginia. one in my household, my oldest

son was an nra member for many, many years. but the leadership is out of touch with their own membership. that's why in three statewide races, they campaigned against me. every time they spent nearly $750,000 in this last race, they have not been able to beat me and they haven't. the second amendment is like the first amendment. we love the first amendment, especially in virginia since madison wrote the bill of rights, drafted the bill of rights. the first amendment doesn't give blanket protection to child pornography or slander. the second amendment provides an individual right but reasonable limitations to protect public safety. >> are you hearing from people on the side of gun control? >> yes, oh, yeah, absolutely. the incoming into the office mail, phone, you know, is about split. and i'm hearing it from both sides. but it is very important for those who favor limitations to be heard. because traditionally what's happened is the intense minority has been louder than the reasonable majority. >> and is that the case now?

>> this is time to step up. it is on tv, but in terms of the contacting my office, i got a mailing this week at home from some innocuously named group that's actually the gun manufacturers, industry group saying the senate is going to end the second amendment as we know it. it is important for the reasonable majority to be heard. >> what's happening with joe manchin's efforts. does it look like it's going to happen? >> at the end of the day, late yesterday, what i was hearing, i haven't had a chance to talk to joe for a couple of days is that it was very, very close. as it's been described, i think it would be a very good step forward. it might not be completely the comprehensive background records check i would want, but if you do background record checks at gun shows and private online sales, that's a huge portion of this, 40% of the weapon sales happen without background record checks. >> and by the way. >> all kinds of felons can get guns that way. >> that's the compromise, isn't it? the individual, and joe said for

some time, that's been the real rub. with pro gun legislators, they want to be able to keep the private cells private without a father having to do a background check on a son or a neighbor having to do a background check. and there are a lot of people upset about that. but you're right, if you close the gun show loophole. and if you also close -- >> online sales, which just are insane. >> yeah. >> that a criminal can go online and get a gun without a background check. that is the height of insanity and that's why 92% of americans are in our poll 87% of americans say let's have background checks. >> go online and try to order a bottle of wine. >> exactly. >> they're going to make sure you're 21. >> and live in the right state. >> you can get guns and all kinds of ammo without any kind of check. that is why the overwhelming majority of folks favor this and overwhelming majority of nra members. i talk to folks all the time,

traveling around the state last week, people come up to me to talk about gun-related issues, virginia is the headquarter state, we are a gun-owning second amendment loving people. but we also understand that reasonable limitations make sense. >> northwest florida, culturally like louisiana, even in a republican primary, i would look forward to having somebody, just on one issue on the criminal background checks, i would love to have somebody attacking me for supporting criminal background checks. you could run away -- >> you could take that -- >> i would bloody them. at every -- i would get the name -- >> he's eager to do it. >> i was. but you see -- >> joe, don't leave morning joe. this is the whole thing, though. this is the whole thing. if you're willing to go after them and not run scared. if you're willing to say, okay, look, this way -- >> don't you think that's true? >> this rapist -- violent rapist got out of jail and then they went and bought a gun online and then they used it to rape someone. i would just -- >> use the virginia experience.

the deranged young man that killed all those students and faculty members at virginia tech bought weapons because of a glitch in the background record check system. he'd been adjudicated mentally ill and dangerous, but the court record was not entered into the national data base, so he was able to purchase weapons. in the aftermath of that shooting, then attorney general, the current governor bob mcdonnell, we fixed that by executive order right away, the legislature came back and codified it later. a better background records check would've caught him and stopped him from getting weapons. the better the system, the safer you are, period, and that's why this really is the core. this is the thing the groups are most passionate about. i think the other pieces are important too, but we've got to have a debate. >> there's no doubt that the background checks, if you talk to -- mayor bloomberg will tell you assault weapons, fine, but if you want to save the lives from chicago to connecticut to california, you've got to get

the background checks. that takes care of all legislation. >> and the nra used to support it and used to support it because they always say no new laws enforce existing laws. it's the only way to enforce the existing laws. >> and the bottom line is the overwhelming majority of nra members who are the nra support it. >> absolutely. >> it's a small group of leaders that have forgotten what they used to believe. thank you for being here. good luck. reminder on thursday, we'll be sitting down with vice president joe biden on gun safety. we've invited the nra, we hope they will show up. they've said they're too busy. you can send us your questions for the vice president on twitter with a hash tag vp on mj. still ahead on "morning joe," former british prime minister tony blair will be here. also, dr. brzezinski, we'll be talking to him about what he tells us we're going to be talking to him about.

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♪ i absolutely love it when the cherry blossoms come out. and i hear it was in the past 24 hours. 36 hours. this is so beautiful. welcome back to "morning joe." we're live in washington at the nbc news washington bureau. jon meacham is still with us. >> why do you say it with that? >> it's so important here. >> i love this song, by the way. >> yeah. >> if this is my birthday, i can -- >> happy birthday -- >> i'm going to request some songs. i need mighty love going to break, spinners. >> just to be close to you. >> okay. >> and, i guess we can't do beatles, that costs a little bit. >> it does. we've got jon meacham here. also here in washington, msnbc

contributor robert gibbs, gibby. and former director of the white house and ceo melody barnes. >> i need a solution right about now. all right. so let's talk guns. >> all right. >> let's show the president in connecticut. >> okay. we'll start there. president obama took lawmakers to task for hedging on new gun reforms in the wake of the newtown school shooting. at a speech yesterday in west hartford, connecticut, with relatives of some of the victims in attendance, the president pressed congress for action. >> connecticut, this is not about me. this is not about politics. this is about doing the right thing for all the families who are here that have been torn apart by gun violence. it's about them and all the families going forward. so we can prevent this from happening again. that's what it's about.

it's about the law enforcement officials putting their lives at risk. that's what this is about. this is not about politics. and yet some folks back in washington are already floating the idea that they may use political stunts to prevent votes on any of these reforms. think about that. they're not just saying they'll vote no on ideas that almost all americans support. they're saying they'll do everything they can to prevent any votes on these provisions. they're saying your opinion doesn't matter. and that's not right. that is not right. we need to vote. >> we want a vote. >> we've got to expect more from ourselves. and we've got to expect more from congress. we've got to believe that, you

know, every once in a while we set politics aside, we just do what's right. we've got to believe that. and if you believe that i'm asking you to stand up. if you believe in the right to bear arms like i do but think we should prevent an irresponsible few from inflicting harm, stand up. >> wow. powerful. nicole hochley is the mother of two sons at sandy hook. she set her expectations of lawmakers in washington are just as high. >> sometimes the waves of sadness are so great they threaten to drown me. i stand before you now and ask you to stand with me. with all the families. those in sandy hook and those in all the other towns and cities

across our great nation that have lost loved ones to gun violence. help this be the moment when real change begins. help this be the beginning of turning tragedy into transformation for us all. >> these families are so amazing. the president then took families to washington on air force one. he certainly is trying his best to quite frankly do what needs to be done, which is make this potentially the last terrible massacre that happens with the existing gun laws that we have. and to try and do something, anything. >> no doubt about it. let's talk, robert gibbs, why don't you -- let's discuss. i've been giving my republican brethren political advice. you don't filibuster a 90% issue when 20 massacred first graders are involved.

i want you to give democrats that are up in 2014 who also may have political pressure to vote against criminal background checks. >> right. >> what do you say to kay hagan? what do you say to mark prior? if this legislation is going to pass, some democrats are going to have to take courageous stands, as well. what do you tell them? >> well, i think first and foremost, you heard the president say it, let's have a vote. 100 people put their hands on a bible in the senate to have a debate in the discussion on these issues. that should be the minimum that we expect. what i would tell a tough legislator is this is a tough issue in some parts of your state. go stand in front of somebody who doesn't think this is a good idea and ask somebody with a criminal background should bear the same right that you have to bear arms. and i just don't think in the history of our country that we've said that you give up certain rights if you're a criminal. you give up certain rights if

you have a mental health condition as it relates to owning a gun. that does not mean that you as a law-abiding hunter that wants to take your 12-year-old out and teach him how to shoot quail or whatever, that does not impede on your right. it simply protects you and your family -- >> protects you and that 12-year-old -- >> yes. >> and it protects your wife and protects everybody in your family from dangerous people getting guns. and we're talking about this point now about -- because i think we all know. it's the background checks and maybe the gun trafficking that at the end of the day is going to be passed. we're not going to get high-capacity magazines and assault weapons. >> common sense that would also be. the federal judge that sentenced jarrod loughner in arizona who said let's take the mass out of mass killing. do you remember an issue in washington that was at 90%?

>> no. >> that congress -- i mean -- >> that filibuster. that's why -- >> filibustering to me is ludicrous. >> it's so dangerous. >> the notion that 90% of the american people are for anything -- >> right. >> that's a pretty stunning, stunning number. >> even the earth is round. >> to not get that through a reasonable body like the united states senate i think is a -- i think it's an important watershed moment for the gun debate. i also think it's an important moment for the function or dysfunction of our government. because if 90% of anybody in this country agree on something, and yet we can't even get a vote in the u.s. senate, it's a remarkable day. >> right. >> so we had our recent "morning joe" marist poll, 87% support universal background checks, 50% sport ban

support a ban on assault weapons. a new cnn opinion research poll shows 52% still disapprove of president obama's handling of gun policy, only 45% approve. >> and the president's obviously getting it from both sides there. the gun rights owners don't like what he's doing, and a lot of people on the left don't think he's been fighting enough. and yet i think yesterday you see the president taking charge, bringing some of the families back to washington. i think at the end of the day, despite what all the smart guys in washington are saying, the nra's won this one, i just don't see that happening. he's going to get his way on background checks and i think he's going to get his way on gun trafficking. at the end of the day, most americans don't like gangs passing guns to other gang members. call me crazy. i'm going to check the cross tabs on that. i think just about every demographic group doesn't like gang members being able to sell guns out of their trunk. >> all right. >> to other gang members. >> point made.

>> i think you're absolutely right. and uncategorically reject the idea that the president hasn't done enough. two days after newtown, the president said we have to address this issue. we have to grieve and mourn and support these families. we have to address this issue. five days later, he sent -- he tasked the vice president with going out and setting up this task force and he called for the assault weapons ban, which we knew was always going to be the most difficult hurdle to get across. he's been pressing and pressing and pressing. and it's making a difference. we've seen the movement. we were talking about democrats and the fact they had to move senator casey, senator hagan and others have demonstrated they wanted to do that. and quite frankly, i think mayor bloomberg, those 900 mayors that stand with him, 100 of them who are republicans, many of them nra members have also said we're going to start to score this. we're going to set up a report card, make it easier to understand what's happening here. >> yeah. i think, i mean, look, mayor

bloomberg has a certain amount of leverage in this debate. i know that -- and especially -- >> no, i'm smiling because if you have $24 billion -- >> you've got a lot of leverage. >> you bring leverage to the table. >> every time i say that you say, yeah, be if he goes into rural areas, it doesn't play well. >> well, he may not play as well in the south, but his message plays very well. >> yeah. >> and $24 billion, of course, whenever you tell bloomberg, hey, so you've got 21 billion, he always goes like this. >> yeah. >> you never say the right number to this guy. >> and that's off the record. >> but the fact is that, he's going to put a lot of money behind an idea that 90% of americans support. and as you said before, john, we've learned in a lot of elections over the past decade, money doesn't always win the

day. people saying well, the nra's going to give this amount of money or that amount of money. if you're with 7% of americans and you support the right of criminals getting guns without background checks, you're going to lose. you may not lose this week -- >> right. >> you may not lose this month. you will lose soon and the repercussions for the party and i think even for these democrats if they stand in the way, it's going to be pretty great. >> we've talked about bloomberg as maybe the first domestic ngo being out there and maybe that's his post new york role. and i -- i disagree with -- i think there's some conventional wisdom about if he goes beyond the hudson or that it somehow hurts the issue. i don't agree. >> is he paying you to say that? >> not enough. >> well, listen, go like this, meacham.

>> no, no, no. >> let's be clear -- >> i think he's got the facts on his side. >> he does. >> he's got 900 mayors. he's also got -- and the visual, this is what you all do for a living. the visual impact of when the president is with uniformed police officers talking about these things is so powerful. and i still admire -- i think this it was a milwaukee police chief who took on a guy in a congressional hearing who was pounding him and he punched -- >> you know what else bloomberg has on his side? >> what? >> the lowest death rate, murder rate in new york city history right now on his side since they've been recording it. the lowest number of gun deaths on his side since he's become mayor, the number has dropped, robert gibbs, for a lot of different reasons. >> right. >> well, look -- >> and by the way, compare that to chicago. >> right. >> and you see it's not just all big cities are enjoying safer times. it's not the case at all. >> and it is a lot as you

mentioned the trafficking, the movement of guns up and down different corridors or different places in the country. look, it is enormously hard to message 90% issue. i mean, look, yes, mayor bloomberg in certain parts of the south if you had a broad discussion about who mayor bloomberg is and his political opinions, might not play well. but on a 90/10 issue, there aren't many political consultants saying, hey, here's the key to breaking the code on the 10% of the people we have. it's just an enormous -- that's why i think it is really, really important these people have the legislators on the side of this just get in the -- get in the lunchroom, you know, go to the diners and just have this conversation and say, look, i'm a common sense person, here's why i believe this. >> we're going to be doing something like that with vice president biden. a reminder for thursday's show. we sit down for an exclusive

round table discussion with vice president biden on how to reduce gun violence. >> and we've asked the nra to come. >> yep. >> they've said they're too busy. >> oh. >> what are they doing? >> to attend. >> i don't know. >> but hopefully, i know we're going to have some people who support the nra's position. they're talking, and also people can ask a question. >> absolutely. if you have a question for the vice president on this issue that you'd want to ask, tweet us using the #vponmj. that's pretty cool. coming up next on "morning joe," we're going to discuss the legacy of the iron lady, margaret thatcher with former prime minister tony blair, also dr. brzezinski and chuck todd. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks.

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straight ahead on "morning joe," dr. brzezinski, chuck todd, and tony blair on the life and legacy on the late margaret thatcher. "morning joe" back in a moment.

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do you tweet? >> no, i think i'm so sort of insecure. like if, you know, what if you tweet and nobody tweets back. what if you tweeted and you h e have -- there's nothing worse than a friendless tweeter, right? you're wandering around in cyber space. >> i took the liberty of opening you a twitter account. now, president clinton was taken. william jefferson clinton was taken. but pres billy jeff was available. would you like to break into the 21st century right now and send

your first tweet? i'll type it. >> you'll type it? >> 140 characters or less. >> just spent -- >> just spent -- >> -- amazing time with colbert. >> sound good? >> is -- question. is he sane? >> is he sane? he is cool. >> can i put an exclamation mark at the end of that? >> yeah, i haven't used the 140 yet, you can. >> anything else? >> no, no, i'm done. >> i'm done. >> he sure is. >> that's pretty funny. oh, here we go. you know who else is tweeting. >> your dad. >> no, we're on the air here. >> who else is tweeting.

>> your father? >> yeah. >> can my dad have some water? joining us now dr. brzezinski. author of "strategic vision." we also have with us the former british prime minister and quartet representative to the middle east, tony blair. and nbc news chief white house correspondent and political director and host of "the daily rundown" chuck todd. >> chuck, we might not be getting to you much this segment. prime minister, great to have you here. thanks so much for being in washington. let's talk, of course, a lot of us talking about the passing of margaret thatcher. i thought it was fascinating yesterday as i went on twitter and saying positive things about her. i was savaged by liverpool fans

first. but savaged mainly by people in great britain. and i thought, these people obviously were too young to remember what great britain was like in '77, '78, '79. there really was a remarkable transformation of that country because of margaret thatcher, was there not? >> i think often i disagreed with her strongly with things around europe and so on. but she was a towering figure. a great and significant leader. the trouble is with someone like that, they always provoke enormous controversy. and there will be some people out there celebrating the fact that she's dead, but i think that for most people in the uk they recognize that she was actually a big 20th century political figure and changed not just her country, but the world and the way the world looked at things. >> so why is it that reagan in america is looked at so much more fondly in the rearview mirror by -- you can't find a democrat who won't say something nice about ronald reagan, even

embracing him in gun debates. and yet margaret thatcher, it seems hasn't enjoyed the same sort of -- >> i'm not sure about that, actually. i think one of the problems, actually, with the whole social media twitter thing is that you get a lot of very harsh commentary that i don't think you should confuse with the whole of public opinion. i think the overwhelming predominant mood in britain today is recognition that a great leader has passed. it comes from the opposite side of the political fence, but if you're taking an even mildly objective view of britain's first woman prime minister. you've got to say she was a big significant figure. >> remarkable figure. let's talk about your work in the middle east. and first, let's talk about syria, and i'd love to bring in dr. brzezinski also. we -- we're now possibly 70, 75,000 people killed in syria and yet it seems we can't find an opposition worthy of support.

what do we do moving forward? as that number approaches 80, 90, possibly 100,000 dead. >> with no end in sight. >> no end in sight. >> look, i think the only thing that works there because you're now left in a situation where obviously what assad is doing to his people is terrible. but once he goes, what comes after him is now very, very uncertain. so i think if it were at all possible, even at this stage to get some form of agreed process of change so that the country got some stability back as it went through constitutional change. there's got to be a new way of governing syria for the future, i'm not sure it's possible now. >> you think syria's going to be a civil war. assad dies tomorrow, there's a theory of the case, you talk to folks in the obama national security team. they're not sure what happens even if assad is killed tomorrow. gone and it's still a civil war. is that your view? >> well, i think it's a very

plausible outcome, let's say. because the opposition is deeply divided. i mean, they're united in getting rid of assad. but what comes after is the question. and the problem with revolutions is not where they begin, but where they end. and you've got this revolutionary turmoil. this period of enormous transition and change. but what comes out of it is deeply uncertain. and so, as i say, even at this last moment, if it were possible because those people who are fighting on behalf of assad, they don't disappear the next day, by the way, even if he was skilled -- they're still there. unless you can bring people together around some sort of common agreed policy, you've got a deep problem that is then going to spill out into other parts of the region. that's the risk. >> dr. brzezinski, when we spoke about this in the fall, we were talking about 20,000 dead. now after a long winter of fighting, 70,000, 75,000 killed,

and as i said before, we still can't seem to find an alternative to assad. what do we do moving forward as that number rises and the civil war continues? >> first of all, the killing is awful. the killing takes place on both sides. we've had some instances in the last couple of weeks of horrible killings in damascus, which obviously did not originate from assad's side. but that's inherent in a civil war, tragic to say. the killing's awful, but there are no angels and no devils here. it's a mess. we started off badly. we announced publicly that assad has to go. we didn't have the chinese, we didn't have the russians on our side when we did that. and worse than that, we didn't have a concept of how to do it. if they don't back us and we are left to handle the problem. so we're stuck. i still think ultimately there'll have to be some resolution in which the russians, the chinese and even in an indirect way, the iranians have to be included.

the alternative is the fragmentation of syria with effects that will be equally adverse for jordan, iraq, lebanon. >> what do you see is moving putin and the russians? >> first of all, the way we started. we, in a sense, dictated the pattern. and then when they decided not to support us in the security council, we publicly denounced them. both the chinese and the russians as being infantile and disgusting in the words of our ambassador to the u.n. we have to draw them in. they do have interests in the region. they do have a presence. and without them, we will not be able to end this quickly. i would like to see it ended. and we should have some formula for a political process in which assad's people, maybe assad himself if they wish want to compete. i'm sure they wouldn't, but they have to be given the illusion of that and perhaps we can stitch it together. but increasing the doubtful.

let's not forget, syria's an artificial creation of the british/french deal back in the 1990s, right after world war i to create a piece of real estate that the french would have while the british took control most of the middle east. and that is coming unstuck. look at the composition, the religious composition of the place. and all of these differences are getting aggravated. >> see, mr. prime minister, we blame the british for all the map drawing. >> in the middle east. >> by the way, in the far east, though, they'll blame the british and even occasionally here. but, no, look the problem is now how you create stability when the feelings of hatred will be so deep and when the sectarianism is so acute. but i agree. look, the only way out of this is to get some form of agreed process of change. and the problem that you have, and this is the difficulty in a

way with the whole of what has happened in the so-called arab spring that is really a series of arab revolutions is that part of the process started. not just because of political rights but because of economic opportunities that people wanted. and now you've got a situation where frankly in egypt, the economy has actually declined. you've got a situation where all over the region the huge uncertainty is not just making the politics very hard but also the economics too. >> dr. brzezinski, let's turn to north korea, we were just talking about how russia could impact syria. obviously the chinese have a huge impact on north korea. do you sense any positive movement in the chinese leadership's direction? >> well, it was very helpful. made it clear that they think north korea is currently the troublemaker and a potential disrupter of stability in that region. and that's a very good message. but basically, we have to face the fact that we're dealing with

a juvenile delinquent who is throwing a tantrum. how do you deal with a situation like this? you stay calm, you take some precautionary measures, you don't get in the public argument with them. and you wait for the tantrum. >> that's how -- >> and that's what he calls you, as well. >> and then you took everything away. >> yeah. >> look, we have the means to deal with the problem when push comes to shove. >> right. >> everybody wants to avoid it because it could be very destabilizing. but let's not get intimidated here. this is so enormous that if he actually did something serious, it would probably mean the end of his -- >> isn't this about calming the japanese and south koreans down a little bit? >> sure. >> the biggest fear from what i understand of the united states, you talk to the obama administration, that they don't want japan or south korea to feel as if they have to nuke up.

they've got to -- >> absolutely. >> and that's the great fear. >> and you're absolutely right. and that's why being ready and taking quiet measures to indicate to the koreans and the japanese that we're ready, for the south koreans, the first thing we have to reassure them about is the artillery deployments not far from seoul, the north koreans have made and with which they threaten to destroy seoul will be gone in about 12 hours once they start. >> mr. prime minister, china also has an equal concern, do they not if north korea continues to be such a destabilizing presence for japanese, the south koreans. others may start talking about nuclear ambitions and that's certainly not something the chinese want on their doorstep. >> absolutely not. and china's got a very strong strategic interest in a sense in making sure this whole situation is calmed down and stabilized. and i think the chinese are doing what they can to achieve that. and the remarks the other day

were very important in indicating that the chinese attitude towards north korea is no longer one of indulgence. and the trouble is that you're dealing with a regime that does not, you know, there's nothing conventional about this regime. there are no identifiable rules by which -- >> a delinquent description -- >> i was taking notes here. >> i was thinking maybe -- i can in time get to have the courage to use such undiplomatic language. but i'm not ready yet. >> you're not quite there yet, are you? >> but the basic premise is correct. and the risk that people have is you're dealing with something that you can't quite -- you can't quite comprehend. and you also worry that there are forces trying to protect their own interests and the question is how far would they go to protect those interests in the event that they started to crumble?

and that's the thing that we wonder about. south korea, north korea, that division there, and it's almost like a ghastly laboratory experiment with good government and bad government. and you see the difference in the two countries after all this time. >> even in their physical size. >> it's extraordinary. >> unbelievable. >> let's test your diplomatic skills. i wanted to ask you because it seems to me that actually the british debate is influencing the american debate over spending cuts and balancing the budget budgets. has cameron's austerity measures been a failure? >> you are testing my -- since i'm abroad -- testing my diplomatic skills.

even this government is trying to amend somewhat their fiscal plans. for me the issue to do with austerity or not is not so much a right/left judgment, it's a right/wrong judgment. you've got to bring your deficit under control. but the speed with which you do has got to have two additional objectives. one is it can't be so sharp it's going to cut your growth rates because otherwise your deficit becomes worse. and secondly, shouldn't imperil long-term investment. those are the two challenges if you like for the uk government. but the uk government even though we're outside the single currency zone, we're still deeply affected by what's within it. and i fear there, we're not out of the woods. >> dr. brzezinski, richard hoss will be releasing a book soon talking about deficits and long-term debts is one of america's great challenges moving forward. do you agree with the assessment? >> yes, i said something along

the same lines in my book. i think it's a solid point. >> so hoss has stolen from your writing? >> no, no, no. we happen to agree. >> all right. thank you so much. i'm going to take notes here juvenile delinquent, throwing a tantrum. >> i've got a gift for you. >> oh, my goodness. >> oh, you are kidding me! look at this. >> oh, happy birthday. >> look at this. >> happy birthday. >> i must say, i have never gotten a birthday cake from a prime minister. we're calling you louis from now on. thank you very much, prime minister. >> you're 55 now, right. >> stop it. it's bad enough as it is. >> we'll be back with much more "morning joe." can i have some right now? >> yes, have it all. that is fantastic.

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it's not rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. well, that could have been awkward, but it wasn't. >> that was great. >> reminder on thursday's show. can i have a fork? seriously? >> by the way, we're going to be sitting down for an exclusive round table discussion with vice president biden on how to reduce gun violence. and if you have a question for the vice president, our any of our panelists that you want to ask, you can tweet us with using the hash tag v.p. on m.j. >> cake's really good. >> we're going to be getting some of your questions. the germans took all the

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okay. here with us now -- >> that was good cake. was good >> delicious. >> did you eat the whole thing? >> i'm trying. >> we're surviving the dr. brzenzski set. >> they sit right next to each other. >> they look like brothers. >> hey, i bet you father behaved finally. >> he was so restrained. >> i'm going to get it later. that was not a good segment. i didn't like it. >> mika's mother actually rates the segments when her father is on and guess what she judges by? >> yeah. >> she must have a stop watch. if he talked a lot she's like that was a good segment. >> he was brilliant. >> she says we're a lot smarter when we let him -- >> a good one. >> and it is. good and long standing. all right. here with us now from the city of brotherly love democratic mayor of philadelphia mayor

michael nutter. today, mayor nutter is leading a group of mayors across the country in recognition of the national day of service which we think needs to be transformed into a requirement for young people across the country, which we can talk about. but first of all, tell us about this, mayor. >> well, mika and joe, and everyone, thank you very much for this opportunity. i'm currently serving as president of the u.s. conference of mayors and in the conversation with wendy spencer the great leader of the corporation for national service we started talking about how do we truly recognize those who are out in the community -- americorps and senior core members providing services in schools and communities all across america? today 832 mayors representing 50 states and over a hundred million americans will be participating in the mayor's day recognition for national service. we just want to lift up those who are young and young at heart who are doing so many positive

things in the community. they're serving. they're making things happen. they're improving the lives of children and adults throughout our communities and they really do deserve service. quite frankly, many of us and i know many neighbors would agree, we can't really get done all the things we need to get done in government without these kinds of partnerships. so our hats are off to them today. we just want to thank them. >> mr. mayor, it is a public/private partnership. a lot of individuals out there, a lot of schools. there are also companies like deloitte, for instance, deloitte, and starbucks, working together with the united way, for instance, to help out storm ravaged areas because of sandy. >> sure. >> they're working hard trying to make a difference there. >> every day this work goes on and in many instances quite frankly it goes almost unnoticed, unheralded. but the communities that benefit, they recognize it. the individuals who are receiving service, when you see activities in our schools, young

people looking up to these slightly older young people if you know what i mean who are providing -- giving their time and their effort and their commitment. so it's really a triple win all the way around. the folks who are getting the service, they benefit. the people giving the service in americorps and senior corps certainly get something personal and professional out of the experience and our communities and our nation is better served when we have so many who are willing to give so much of themselves and their time and their efforts and their talent and they make our cities that much better. so i'm very, very excited. i want to commend the many mayors. my vice president at the uscm scott smith out in mesa, arizona and mayor maria lopez rogers who is the president of the national league of cities in avondale, arizona, mayor emmanuel, mayor landrieu in new orleans, so many all across the country actively engaged and participating. 832 mayors, today, all doing the

same thing, going to workshops, holding sessions with these young people and really commending them for the work that they're doing. >> 820 mayors will be mad at you that you didn't name drop them. >> yeah. that has happened. we'd need about a half hour for me to do all the names. >> mr. mayor, i want to ask you, this is a week about whether new gun control is going to pass. >> sure. >> pennsylvania senator pat toomey, one of your two senators, is said to be in negotiations with some democrats about possibly signing on to the background check bill. have you been moved in to help lobby him? have you had conversations with senator toomey? do you think this is something -- obviously he is conservative on fiscal issues, has never been a cultural conservative warrior if you will on some of the other cultural issues. do you think you have an opportunity to persuade him on your side on this? >> well, the answer is, i think you asked me three questions. >> probably. >> yes, yes, and yes.

i have talked to senator toomey. he is open to, i believe, regional, rational efforts to make america a safer place, certainly pennsylvania and philadelphia. i'm particularly proud that senator toomey is actively engage. i know he's been in discussions with a wide variety of people. i have talked to him. i won't characterize our discussions other than to say he's very serious about this issue. i'm hopeful that his leadership, and as you've described his background and his leadership will actually convince others especially other republicans that it is okay to do the right thing to make sure that americans are safe. and so i certainly want to encourage senator toomey in his efforts. it is just common sense that everyone, anyone, anywhere at any time, should go through a background check to buy a weapon. this does not infringe on the second amendment.

i strongly believe in the second amendment but i do believe i have a first amendment right not to be shot and to be safe here in philadelphia or anywhere across america. so let's see what happens. let's be optimistic that, you know, in our politics, local, state, and federal all of us ultimately figure out how to do the right thing. >> we are hoping. mayor michael nutter, thank you very much. >> thank you all. >> thanks a lot, mayor. greatly appreciate it. >> let's have a day of service. >> thank you so much. it's fascinating how many mayors and how many police officers, how many police chiefs have lined up behind some rational sort of gun safety measures. >> absolutely. i think they do -- they are in that position because of the facts. when you look at it, jurisdictions that have some kind of additional gun control measure in place, background checks, there are some that go beyond where the federal government is. you see that there are 48% fewer gun trafficking related cases,

38% fewer women that are being killed in domestic violence related incidents. so those who have to deal with the violence and the pain in their communities and their neighborhoods and cities realize that this is common sense. i think that's why they're lined up behind it. republican and democrat. >> robert? >> they see it so much more closely than somebody in washington who might read the local newspaper about a shooting in a place. a mayor, somebody on the city council, particularly a police chief. >> they're there in the middle of the night when it happens. >> they have to be. and they come into contact the next day with somebody who is surprised that that happened in the neighborhood like theirs. so it's -- you can't get away from it when you're that close. >> robert gibbs, melanie barnes, thank you very much. >> thanks a lot. chuck todd, thank you. >> thank you, brother. happy birthday. >> thank you. appreciate it. >> we'll see you on "the daily rundown" after "morning joe." tomorrow chairman of the house budget committee congressman paul ryan will join us. "morning joe" is back in a moment. ♪

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at ducktherapy.com. newtown, we want you to know that we're here with you. we will not walk away from the promises we've made. we are determined as ever to do what must be done. in fact, i'm here to ask you to help me show that we can get it done. we're not forgetting. >> good morning. it's 8:00 a.m. on the east coast.

5:00 a.m. on the west coast as you take a live look at the white house. back with us onset john meacham who sells a lot of rap albums. al hunt, cokie roberts, and in new york, willie geist. let's go to news. president obama took lawmakers to task for hedging on new gun reforms in the wake of the newtown school shooting. at his speech yesterday in west hart fo hartford, connecticut with relatives of some of the victims in attendance the president pressed congress for action. >> connecticut, this is not about me. this is not about politics. this is about doing the right thing for all the families who are here that have been torn apart by gun violence. it's about them and all the families going forward so we can prevent this from happening again. that's what it's about. it's about the law enforcement officials putting their lives at risk. that's what this is about. this is not about politics.

and yet some folks back in washington are already floating the idea that they may use political stunts to prevent votes on any of these reforms. think about that. they're not just saying they'll vote no on ideas that almost all americans support. they're saying, they'll do anything they can to even prevent any votes on these provisions. they're saying, your opinion doesn't matter. and that's not right. that is not right. we need a vote. >> we need a vote. [ chanting ] >> we want a vote! >> we've got to expect more from ourselves. we've got to expect more from congress. we've got to believe that, you know, every once in a while we set politics aside. we just do what's right.

we got to believe that. if you believe that i'm asking you to stand up. if you believe in the right to bear arms like i do but think we should prevent an irresponsible few from inflicting harm, stand up. >> the mother of who sons that went to school at sandy hook, one of them, dylan, was among 20 killed. after connecticut passed the toughest laws in the country she said her expect ags of lawmakers in washington are just as high. >> sometimes the waves of sadness are so great they threaten to drown me. i stand before you now and ask you to stand with me. with all the families. those in sandy hook and those in all the other towns and cities across our great nation that have lost loved ones to gun violence. help this be the moment when real change begins. help this be the beginning of

turning tragedy into transformation for us all. >> al hunt, 14 republicans are saying they're going to filibuster any gun investigation. tom coburn came out and said it might be better if you actually know what the gun legislation is before you talk about filibustering. you look at these images and the fact that 92% of americans believe criminals should have background checks before they're able to buy guns. you look at the president talking there and it is really hard to figure out what the political calculation is. >> well, the filibuster is terribly abused and has been for the last years. >> only 92% -- the republicans are going to filibuster a 92% iss issue. here in our latest poll it was 87%. basically a 90/10 in something that involves the massacre of

20, first-grade children. is anybody awake in my party on the hill? >> well, joe, i share your outrage. i suspect in the end they'll back down on some of this. the lindsay grahams, the john mccains are going to prevail. i'm not sure they can win. i'm not sure they can hold the republican caucus together on filibustering that. on the more generic question of why oppose parts of the bill this is 50, 60 years old, right, cokie? >> right. >> there is no question the 87% is there. the problem we've always had is that 13% votes on that issue and whether that is still true or not i don't know. i think what will change gun control and i hope something will get through, pat toomey and joe manchin are trying to work on something. whether it will get through will be when some suburban republicans lose in november because of their pro gun votes. >> it's important, cokie, also to focus on democrats as well that are up in 2014. >> right. >> like mary landrieu.

what is she going to do in the state of louisiana? >> she has a tough road on a bunch of issues the democrats are pushing. louisiana, you know, is not a liberal state. and she and mark pryor in arkansas and joe manchin in west virginia all have this problem. >> kay haagin in north carolina. but by and large where the democrats are is shoring up the coalition that elected barack obama. so when you look at gun control, and we just heard the president say it's not about politics. it's not about politics. it's not about politics. but the politics are that women support gun control by 20 points more than men do. and so what we're seeing happening is the president and others in the party saying, okay. who elected us? women, minorities, and young people. and so what are you seeing? gun control, immigration for the minorities, and gay marriage for the young people. >> right. >> and so that's the politics

we're looking at. >> so, john, yesterday republicans were upset that i talked about people filibustering a bill that would allow us to stop rapists, violent rapists from being able to buy guns. so let's turn the tables. if you're kay hagen in north carolina and you're mary landrieu and you're running for re-election do you really want to go to women's groups and say, you know, i didn't have the courage to vote to make sure we could have criminal background checks so rapists couldn't go and buy guns, so child molesters that had used guns to perpetrate their crimes so people that have been convicted of manslaughter, violent manslaughter but got off because of probation or overcrowding in prisons, i didn't have the courage to stand up to the 7% of americans who think rapists should get a free pass and not have background checks. how would you like to be kay hagen or mary landrieu and take

that back to the national women's groups who are giving you money? i don't mean to be that harsh about it. i was that harsh with my republicans. the same thing holds true. this is true. anybody that votes against criminal background checks are saying, you know what? let the rapists, let the people that have committed violent manslaughter and have gotten out, let the people who have committed assault and battery using a gun or robbed households using -- we don't want to know what their background is. let's give them a free pass. who can do that in the democratic party? >> i don't think those are points you want to walk in with. going out on a limb here. i do think on some level the president -- party definition has to mean something. you know, the party -- a party position has to mean something. you have a president, maybe an emotional, effective, political effort here. political -- he says not about politics -- what he means not about partisanships. everything is about politics, how we are together.

he's out there working. i don't know who provides them the kind of cover they need. i think joe manchin gets a big thumbs up here. >> it's remarkable what joe has done from the beginning. >> early on with no cover. he hadn't calculated. it was the morning after i think. >> came on our show and here is a guy, a-plus nra, friends with everybody in the nra and he just said enough. >> he did what senators are supposed to do. he took a position without polling it. >> for those women, mary landrieu and kay hagen if they go to the national women's groups those groups aren't going to have a choice. the people they're going to be running against are going to be against everything else those women are for. so al is right. i mean, what they then worry about is that people -- the 7% or the 13% or whatever it is on the issue who just feel so strongly about it and get out there as you well know, joe. i mean therks not only vote on

that issue. they raise money on that issue. they put up terrifying ads on that issue. and the other side doesn't mobilize. >> well -- i agree. i also think they exaggerate, cokie. we hear these stories -- 1994 so and so lost because of gun control. >> i never believe that. >> everything was losing in 1994. >> the people that supported gun control were the same people that voted for bill clinton's tax increase. >> right. >> and health care. >> the same people that supported health care. the same people that supported nafta, you know, i talked about gun control, running against people for gun control but that is not what drove people that year. >> no. >> it did in the republican primary but certainly not the general election. >> i agree. i share your view on joe manchin totally. >> so interesting. >> you know something, interesting his partner, pat toomey. pat toomey is very conservative, republican from pennsylvania, looking at chester and montgomery and delaware counties there, bucks county.

those are the big philadelphia suburban counties and you know something? they're not going to cotton to somebody who votes for guns. for all the middle, that's there but those are the big volt-rich counties and that's what pat toomey is calculating. >> really much more democratic. >> but a republican wins when they do well there. >> whatever, willie geist, any time we've been talking about criminal background checks, you have people saying there they go again. they want to shred the constitution, start a national gun registry. well, if that were the case, and if somebody used that against pat toomey, pat could say, well, then why was wayne laperriere for it in 1999? >> right. >> if it's -- if it is such a great challenge to the second amendment in 2013 why wasn't in 1999, willie? >> that is absolutely right. go back and read the records. he was for this. wayne laperriere was clearly for universal background checks. the deal al is talking about with joe manchin reaching out to

pat toomey, that would have background checks on commercial sales and would not have background checks on private sales. so even that has a loophole in it and is less than president obama and gun safety advocates would want. we talked about this. forget for a second even the right thing to do but politically, if you're republicans or if you're a gun rights advocate, you've already won. there is not going to be an assault weapons ban. they're not going to limit the size of magazines. so if you give on this, you look like you're giving more than you really are. if you say, okay. we'll go along with some form of background checks, it strikes me as smart politically to look flexible but you've really won already on the big issues. >> and that also, cokie, is why mitch mcconnell is coming out. it doesn't cost mitch mcconnell or any of these people anything to say i'm going to filibuster this bill and, you know, the conservative base, now mitch mcconnell gets positive -- >> mitch mcconnell who is up for election. >> he is up for election himself. he gets positive press back

home. the tea partiers don't like him. seriously, is mitch mcconnell going to vote against background checks? >> at the end of the day probably not. but it is a, you know, all of the subtleties of what wayne laperriere said, and years ago and all that, are never part of this debate. >> right. >> i mean, this debate is black and white. >> they're coming to get your guns. >> exactly right. >> don't even look at my gun. that is -- you are undermining the second amendment. it is -- and, you know, that's why they don't want to debate on the senate floor. because, you know, it's sort of like, i've been asking about afghanistan. why -- for five years i've been asking why are we in afghanistan? and the answer is always, because of pakistan. well, then why aren't we in pakistan? we can't so we have to be -- it doesn't really help in pakistan. no. but we need to be -- there is not a good answer. it's the same thing. why can't we do criminal background checks? well it might lead to a national

registry. why can't we ban assault weapons? because they're not really assault weapons. what are they? semiautomatic. so why can't we ban certain type of semiautomatics? because then you'll want to get, you know, next you'll want my hand gun. it is never about the issue that you're debating. they always move the ball. and the point i think the best point of this is, we're going to be talking to joe biden on thursday and we're going to sit down we're going to be listening to joe biden. >> we're going to be talking to joe and then we're going to listen and we're going to sit down for an exclusive round table talk with the vice president on gun violence and would love to have you ask questions. we've invited a lot of people there and i think this is one of the most telling things. we invited the nra several times to come and just sit down and have a talk with joe biden. we're going to have a couple of pro gun advocates. we're going to have a couple people pro gun safety advocates.

and we invited the nra and they said, we're too busy. and alex -- you say this guy is shredding the constitution. you got a chance to sit down for an hour and talk to the man who you claim is shredding the constitution. we're too busy that week. they don't want to debate. how do you debate? how do you fight against making sure that rapists and child molesters have to have a background check? >> and, in addition to the criminal elements, there's also the fact that the greatest amount of gun violence in this country is suicide. and the idea that you might have to wait a little while before you get a gun so that people can make sure that you're not going to take it right immediately into the parking lot and kill yourself -- >> right. >> is also a useful thing. but nobody wants to talk about that either. >> coming up on "morning joe" the future of health care in an unhealthy america. is obama care the solution to fix that system?

we'll be talking to the president and ceo of the mayo clinic straight ahead. up next, maureen orth, joe klein, eugene robinson here. >> so happy to be there. maybe because of the special occasion. the best to you. as you are going through your day today if you're in the midwest things are changing in a hurry. look at yesterday by the way. we were 71 in denver. beautiful, warm, sunny day. here's the current temperature in denver. it is 16 degrees. the wind chill is now zero. the temperature has dropped by about 55 degrees since yesterday afternoon. talk about, you know, being used to things changing, stopping on a dime. well, the big storm is responsible for all the cold air coming down from the north. it's also responsible for all the warm air ahead of it. when you get this clash of air masses this time of year you'll get severe weather. that's what we'll deal with this afternoon. we don't expect a huge outbreak

but we'll have a few chances of strong tornadoes. it only takes one to go through a town for it to be destructive and maybe deadly. that's the concern today. area of red is most at risk. we're talking about the heart of tornado alley. we're going really from areas around oklahoma city to tulsa, southward, down through wichita falls. we still think there is a chance of severe storms dallas/ft. worth but the tornado threat should primarily be further to the north. the timing of these, most likely between 5:00 p.m. and 10:00 p.m. this evening central time. here's your forecast. incredible warmth finally. we've had a miserable march. and now april is starting to turn around and look nice. d.c. at 82 today. you're as warm as miami. but we have the stormy weather in the middle. the west coast isn't too bad after yesterday you've improved and as far as getting even warmer it looks like tomorrow in d.c., 86. an outside shot at being near 90 degrees. we leave you with a shot of what used to be the ice skating rink.

no tears around here. let's get rid of that thing. you're watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. mine was earned in djibouti, africa, 2004. the battle of bataan, 1942. [ all ] fort benning, georgia, in 1999. [ male announcer ] usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation because it offers a superior level of protection and because usaa's commitment to serve the military, veterans, and their families is without equal. begin your legacy. get an auto-insurance quote. usaa. we know what it means to serve. trust your instincts to make the call. to treat my low testosterone,

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from the very beginning, the first time they met, you know, she was the first state dinner that we had at the white house and the last.

people thought she and i didn't have a relationship. nothing could be farther from the truth. we had a very special relationship. and, of course, i loved it that she and ronny were as close as they were. >> that was nancy reagan yesterday speaking with andrea mitchell about the relationship between margaret thatcher and former president ronald reagan who she described as political soulmates. and joining us now, special correspondent for "vanity fair" maureen orth who interviewed the former prime minister back in 1991. also with us, pulitzer prize winning columnist and msnbc political analyst eugene robinson who writes here in today's "the washington post" and political columnist for "time" magazine joe klein. >> who is going to talk about it this morning whether he wants to or not. we all are. maureen, let's start with you. tony blair was on earlier today, a man very popular in the united

states but not so popular at home. one of the things that strikes me is how ronald reagan has been embraced even by the left. they love talking about how they agreed with ronald reagan on this or that. in great britain, good lord, try to say something nice about margaret thatcher and it's in. she has not yet received the same warmth reagan did. >> it's really funny. i think the analogy is like nixon in france. people love nixon in france but not so much here. that's the same thing, and a little bit gorbachev, too, but that is the same thing. i think a lot of it has to do with her style. i spoke to her right after she left office and, you know, she had a -- she was ousted by the conservative party on a thursday night and after almost 12 years in office, by monday morning the movie vans were there and downing street closed down for her. she said to me, a pattern of my life is fractured.

she said it's like you take a pane of glass and throw it on the floor and with a complicated map on it and all the pieces were shattered and i can't ever bring that back. she was stunned. she was freaked out. >> wow. >> gene, you actually met margaret thatcher, thought she was pretty charming. but you worked in london for quite a while. what surprises me is, we -- i think we're all except for you, mika, old enough to remember the great britain of the 1970s where they would turn off the electricity for neighborhoods at a time, for communities at a time, trash piling up in the street. three-day work weeks. it was chaos. they were a third rate economic power by the time she came in and you sit and wonder why the british as a whole don't recognize remarkable changes that she implemented. >> i think they recognize the changes but there was such a bitter time.

the clashes between labor and the conservatives weren't like republicans and democrats. it was a struggle to bring written, really, into the post industrial age i think and in looking back at it that's what it was but it was not an easy transition. and people have long memories of the miners' strike which went on for a year. >> right. >> i met mrs. thatcher just once. it was a bit after maureen did and she was by then esconfidenced in this wonderful sort of town house office and sw-1 and she was watching her successor john major as he sort of bumbled around here and there. she was having a bit of fun. >> she enjoyed it didn't she? >> yes. she leaned in close and said, if

only he were a man. >> now that's leaning in. men told me and i was so surprised that she was sexy. they told me when she was in a room you knew it. she had the power to move men. >> i tried to be a little more delicate about that yesterday but i heard time and time again -- >> be careful right here. i'm being careful. >> okay. president obama. maureen, you brought it up. i heard time and time again, reading about margaret thatcher, that far from the iron lady in her time among her contemporary male friends she was a very, i'll just say, they said she was a very sexual person. >> oh, my gosh. >> hold it a second. >> let me stop. come on. i'm not talking about her private sexual practices. i'm talking about when she

walked into a room men did not look at her as the iron lady all the time. that she -- >> right. >> -- was a woman first. >> she and reagan had one thing in common. the biggest thing in common was power in constancy. they never deviated from their core principles. and so he really enjoyed that and she, i think, gave him a lot of credit sometimes for things he never even said. so they did have a special relationship. and i went to -- i observed ronald reagan's 80th birthday and she got the largest standing ovation of the night. she went out there, you know, and everybody was very deferential to her but she had a true love affair with her husband, sir dennis thatcher, an absolute character. >> right. >> and barbara bush gave a toast and said, you broke the mold, dennis, when they made you. he said, i will quote mark anthony going into klee pat ra's bedroom. i have not come to talk. >> wow. >> there you go. >> the woman had a fabulous

voice on her. she was a great speaker. but the other thing that both she and reagan did was she made possible the reform of the british labor party. it wasn't just miners' strikes. they were a bunch of looney tunes. at that point they were still singing the internationale at media -- >> joe, this brings up another point following up on what gene said before was a hard time. yes, it was a difficult time. it had to be done. in fact, you even talk to her detractors who say oh, she was a beast to the unions. they'll always go but of course the unions needed changing. they were crazy. >> absolutely. >> she did what had to be done. >> i mean, she led to tony blair as surely as ronald reagan led to bill clinton in this country. we were on parallel tracks for a while. not anymore. but i think that the democratic party in this country badly needed to be reformed after the 1970s and reagan made that possible. >> go ahead. >> what i wrote about this

morning was her as a woman actually. which i thought was kind of fascinating. she always rejected the labeled feminists and said the feminists hate me and why wouldn't they? they should hate me. but, you know, because i -- my politics, i don't really share her politics. her sort of political philosophy, but i think as a woman pioneer, who showed that a woman could be that sort of bold swashbuckling head of government and sort of leader, i think she -- she really made a huge contribution. >> well, that's what i was going to ask actually. a perfect segue. maureen, i feel like we talk about her as a leader except for the sexual aura conversation we just had here which is very interesting and i've heard about her charm and wit from people who i know who spent time with her. but you don't hear her talked about or maybe i've missed it as such a trail blazer as eugene put it. it's just a given that she is a

leader and it's so amazing given the generation she's in. >> she worked herself up through the party and she was really the only woman around. she was used to working with men her whole life and there weren't a lot over women. i don't think she was the kind of person that thought about bringing other women along although she was very kind to the lowest members of her staff i was told. >> what maureen said is very important. her constancy was a major break in style from what had gone on before. i think that what she brought -- i'm back to the traditional values and leadership. pope francis got me back to the importance of humility. and what -- thatcher wasn't humble, but she was candid. >> very. >> and i think that at this point people are really hungry for politicians who are candid, who are humble, who are recognizable human beings. she was that. she really. >> and we talked, mika, about her being a trail blazer as far

as a woman goes. you could find many more cultures open to a woman advancing the way she did in the 1970s that would have been far more successful than great britain, than parliament. the men's club of men's clubs. >> she majored in chemistry at oxford and had the highest grades and they wouldn't allow her into their honorary society because she was a woman. >> love it. >> she faced that her whole life. >> when she became party leader in the opposition, she was just supposed to be a placeholder. they thought she'd last for a while and some guy would come in and become the next prime minister. >> wonderful. >> she kind of fooled them. >> they wouldn't let her in the honorarium but the story of her sitting in british society in the '60s and '70s, the women would eat with the men and then

they would retire to the women's room and then the men would get up and go smoke somewhere else. and i think it was tina brown who said people would just sit, women with their mouths just open, as the men would leave and she'd just get up and leave with them. and no -- and as tina said, no man dared tell her to get out of the room. even before she had power. >> she flew in once from the far east. she was going to meet reagan. and she stopped in pearl harbor and she wanted to go see the battle site in the middle of the night so they were trying to get all these limos. she goes, no, no, no. she pulls a flashlight out of her handbag and she says i've brought one with me. i'll walk. >> that was it. thank you very much. great stories. eugene robinson, thank you as well. looking for your column online at washington post.com. joe klein, stay with us for this next segment. coming up, the old saying goes an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. up next, the president and ceo of the mayo clinic who will

explain why an ounce of prevention is also worth billions of dollars in taxpayer money. "morning joe" will be right back. ♪ [ male announcer ] the distances aren't getting shorter. ♪ the trucks are going farther. the 2013 ram 1500 with best-in-class fuel economy. engineered to move heaven and earth. guts. glory. ram. the new ram 1500. motor trend's 2013 truck of the year. blast of cold feels nice. why don't you use bengay zero degrees? it's the one you store in the freezer. same medicated pain reliever used by physical therapists. that's chilly! [ male announcer ] bengay zero degrees. freeze and move on.

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here with us now the

president and ceo of the mayo clinic. >> john meacham has already claimed the doctor is his doctor. >> right. >> we've had a few minutes. >> you say you've signed off on cigar, smoke, and diet coke. >> really? >> i think you're lying. is he lying? thnchts is joe's diet. five munchkins from dunkin donut, diet coke, and he thinks baked potato is a vegetable. >> we have a mayo clinic diet cookbook we'll send you. look at it and see if you can find anything. >> oh, my gosh. >> i will take it. you know, we talk about -- >> a lot better than my diet. >> we talk about the deficit. we talk about long-term debt all the time on this show. because we think it's the right thing to do. but so much of that is driven by health care costs. how do we make our health care system, which we spend more money on than any country on earth. how do we make it more efficient. how do we use technology to drive down costs?

>> thank you. there are three things i'll address today at the national press club. one is health care is fragmen d fragmented. the quality is very uneven around the country and it is unaffordable. mayo clinic has ideas about how to address each of those. >> what are they? >> the first part is the fragmentation of health care. americans struggle to know where to get their care and one doctor says one thing and it's not all connected. at mayo clinic we've been doing this now for 149 years bringing patients at the center of the room, all the doctors working together. and technology can actually help with that. and we've recognized that our most scaleable asset is what the mayo clinic knows. we're putting everything we know in an information management system so the doctors and nurses can provide better care so patients can understand their own health needs. that's scaleable. we're using that to integrate health care across our network across the country. >> and how does that save money? efficiency of care or what?

>> duplication of tests that are unnecessary, doing the right tests. getting all the care you need and no more than that. getting it at the right place. and also knowing your health and knowing what's important to you and ultimately to your family. and one day, i think, where this is going to head is that people everywhere are going to want to know more about their health and they should know what's knowable and what's believable so they can influence their own life, their own lifestyle. >> you know, joe, we -- i know your father, my father suffered. my father suffered for several years. and we went through that and it was stunning to me all of the specialists that would come in. >> right. >> they all had a -- they all had a vertical view. >> different parts of the body. >> their world was -- that's all they treated. nobody was looking holistically at the situation. and when he died i remember when we took all of his belongings out and they give it to you and, you know, there were like 29 pill bottles. >> right. >> that we were carrying out.

>> joe, there's also the story, and this i think relates to what the doctor was just saying of your back at cleveland clinic. >> right. >> where the doctor said i'm not going to -- you don't need an operation. and the most important aspect of this data gathering is you find out what works and what doesn't work. and so i'm very familiar with the system in pennsylvania which is very similar to this where they have teams of doctors coordinating but also the doctors are on salaries. what they find over time is best practices. >> doctor, let me explain quickly, the story was i had a procedure in 1999. 2004 my back went out. i was in horrific pain and didn't walk for four months. the doctor came into the cleveland clinic. there was the vice presidential debate. i happened to be across the street from the cleveland clinic when i fell down and stopped walking. he said i'm not going to do anything. any other doctor you talk to is going to tell you we need to operate again.

>> sure. >> you're going to hate me but go home and you're going to be in pain for six months. it's the single i think as far as quality of life goes it's the single greatest decision anybody's made for me and he wouldn't have made it if he knew he had an economic incentive to open me up and cut up my spine. >> i couldn't agree more. same problem, back pain, five years. my neuro surgeon at the mayo clinic. i begged him to operate and he wouldn't do it. he said this will get better. i said four years. he said, it'll get better. again, no economic incentive and also understanding what everyone knows about you. and it's right there in front of them. >> can i ask this? the big question, i'm going to demand candor from you. elliot fisher at dartmouth who studies this stuff says this model, the mayo clinic model, the cleveland clinic model, is the best way to deliver health care in this country. why haven't we adopted it? what is -- what are the head winds against making this model, bringing it to scale and

spreading it through the country? >> well, there are a couple. i think the health care industry has been in place for a long time and there are a lot of self-interests in that. i think the other thing that is a key door opener for us as we go forward is it's been very difficult to prove what works and also get an understanding of how much it costs. and the innovation i'll be talking about at the national press club today is that mayo clinic, a not for profit, and united health group the largest insurance company, have put together an open innovation labs to crack this nut. to say, what are the outcomes that we want in health care over 20 years if you will, the mayo clinic data on 5 million patients, and what does health care cost over time and united health group through optim are putting in 20 years of data and we're inviting all the other groups to join that. you can look at real data. what works in health care? what does it cost? how do you improve the outcomes and lower the cost all in the same data base? >> doctor, are we better off in

your view today and in the next couple years because of the affordable health care act or were -- was the prospects for the kind of reform you want actually more optimum two or three years ago, three years ago? >> well, we would say that the affordable care act has done one very important thing. it's brought people, everyone's insured or has an opportunity which is a good thing. it's also really changed the conversation across the whole spectrum of health care -- policy makers, device companies, pharma insurers, providers, patients, all getting in the mix. i was just at the world health care conference yesterday and we had this debate and everyone is engaged because they see what's coming. what hasn't happened with the affordable care act is how we'll pay for it. and i think more importantly really is recognizing the spectrum of care. this is one thing for preventative services and primary care and chronic disease management but as you get more complex health issues, as you both talked about with your parents, there's a spectrum of delivery of care and there is a

real spectrum of quality. who does the right thing, who gets better outcomes? how do you get that cost down? that's the next stage. i think that's what we really hope will happen. >> let me ask really quickly. can you explain to us why health care costs slowed down even before the affordable care act passed? we were going at a 4% clip. >> do that quickly. >> it's been around 2% for a while. what's been going on? >> let utilization. >> okay. >> i mean, folks are using health care less. also -- >> why? >> well people are paying more out of pocket for health care and also saving. they're not certain they're going to have a job and so people are holding back on getting routine health care or even elective surgeries. so there's less utilization. >> all right. we have barely scratched the surface in this conversation. you should come back. it would be great to have you. >> we'd love to have you. >> thank you so much. joe klein, thank you as well.

great to see you. coming up, why the university of louisville was the winner of the ncaa even before last night's big win. business before the bell with brian shactman is next. more than two years ago, the people of bp made a commitment to the gulf. and every day since, we've worked hard to keep it. today, the beaches and gulf

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from busser to waiter to chef before opening a restaurant specializing in fish and game from the great northwest. he'll start investing early, he'll find some good people to help guide him, and he'll set money aside from his first day of work to his last, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense. from td ameritrade. hey, time for business before the bell with cnbc's brian shactman. earning season is about to get into full swing and a big company is out to a strong start. who is it? >> well, the big company is alcoa. just like last quarter, joe, good profits but revenues a little light. some cautiousness ahead of earnings. the markets are up today in the premarket but the last two weeks

we've been basically flat. not a lot of earnings really until next week when it kicks into full gear. j.c. penney, ron johnson out as ceo. mike ullman comes back, the guy who replaced, when ron johnson was supposed to turn the company around. the timing is interesting. the result is people, a lot of people thought ron johnson would be gone but the consensus is that the numbers this quarter are even worse, hemorrhaging cash, and j.c. penney in absolute crisis. we'll have to follow the story. i want to point out louisville. one thing about them winning the national title is obviously they're on top of the world but they're also for the last couple years the most profitable college basketball program in the country. >> really. >> by far. >> why? >> they get $20 million a year in donations to the basketball program. that's more than almost any other school has in total revenue. the kfc young center, they sell beer, draw more than 20,000 a game, they have luxury suites. basically they've charged more, about seven or eight nba teams,

the $35 average guys. they are a cash cow on top of being the best team in the country. >> and a little known fact, brian eeked out mika brzenzski in the morning joe brackets. congratulations. >> what? >> you won the bracket. >> i don't think that says very much. i had miami against louisville so i think the whole staff should be pretty ashamed. >> yeah. >> okay. >> we live in shame, brian. >> no problem. >> thanks so much. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." go sox!

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a reminder on thursday's show. we sit down for an exclusive roundtable discussion with vice president joe biden on how to reduce gun violence. you can tweet us your questions for the vice president by using the hash tag vponmj. on tomorrow's show chairman of the house budget committee congressman paul ryan will join us. up next, what, if anything, did we learn today? well the travel forecast today very difficult in the

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welcome back to "morning joe." john meech associated press, what did you learn? >> a couple things. the new doctor at the mayo clinic. >> he doesn't know it yet. >> but i got his card and i think he'll approve of several of my worst habits. that's my thought. >> what have you learned? >> there's a reason my dad asks who he is on with. it's because we don't like a lot of people in our family. we're not nice. >> an eastern european thing. >> definitely. yeah. >> okay. can i tell you what i've learned toda